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How can a dance-off be run in 5e as a combat encounter?


How to run an encounter where PCs have different observations of the same events?Is a custom race with an armour bonus based on two ability score modifiers imbalanced?How can I keep repeated arena combat from getting boring?How can I make a multiple engagement encounter fun for my party?How can I quickly adjust encounters for variable party sizes?Is this possibly deadly encounter fair to run?How to design a combat encounter for 20 characters?Leveling up NPCs in Out of The AbyssAs a DM, how can I best design a combat encounter in a stealth mission for a fighter?How to balance combat encounter for magic user group that suddenly can't cast magic?






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$begingroup$


My players will be soon be encountering a fight that will unfold as a dance-off against a group of magical dancers. Ideally, I would like to be able to run the encounter as something that allows the player roles to be somewhat reversed in combat, where the tanks who normally deal out the damage will be less effective than the charismatic squishy characters who normally have to resort to stealth. Damage from this encounter should bypass hit points/AC in some way, so bulky characters with lots of HP and AC would end up in more of a support role. I want to run this as a combat encounter, and not a series of ability checks.



Initially, I thought I could accomplish this with temporary ability score damage, but ability score damage is so rare in 5e that there doesn't seem to be much information on it. A secondary approach would be to invoke an additional stat like morale or honor in the DMG, which I am fine with.



The preferred version of this encounter would involve a shuffled playlist of music IRL, with songs marked as enemy- or player-benefiting that bestow a small bonus to actions taken while that song is playing. What are some ways to accomplish this while minimizing the amount of time needed to explain the rules for this one-off encounter?










share|improve this question









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  • 7




    $begingroup$
    For those answering, please remember that we aren't here to generate ideas. If you've got ideas, please back them up. We shouldn't upvote idea generation.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    9 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @MarkTO This should probably move to a Meta discussion, but that is generally covered in the link about backing them up. Subjective questions are more than fine - but that doesn't mean we can't support a subjective answer. Please take a look at my original link, the SO blog post going into more detail, and this meta q.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago

















9












$begingroup$


My players will be soon be encountering a fight that will unfold as a dance-off against a group of magical dancers. Ideally, I would like to be able to run the encounter as something that allows the player roles to be somewhat reversed in combat, where the tanks who normally deal out the damage will be less effective than the charismatic squishy characters who normally have to resort to stealth. Damage from this encounter should bypass hit points/AC in some way, so bulky characters with lots of HP and AC would end up in more of a support role. I want to run this as a combat encounter, and not a series of ability checks.



Initially, I thought I could accomplish this with temporary ability score damage, but ability score damage is so rare in 5e that there doesn't seem to be much information on it. A secondary approach would be to invoke an additional stat like morale or honor in the DMG, which I am fine with.



The preferred version of this encounter would involve a shuffled playlist of music IRL, with songs marked as enemy- or player-benefiting that bestow a small bonus to actions taken while that song is playing. What are some ways to accomplish this while minimizing the amount of time needed to explain the rules for this one-off encounter?










share|improve this question









New contributor



A Random Guy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    For those answering, please remember that we aren't here to generate ideas. If you've got ideas, please back them up. We shouldn't upvote idea generation.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    9 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @MarkTO This should probably move to a Meta discussion, but that is generally covered in the link about backing them up. Subjective questions are more than fine - but that doesn't mean we can't support a subjective answer. Please take a look at my original link, the SO blog post going into more detail, and this meta q.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago













9












9








9


2



$begingroup$


My players will be soon be encountering a fight that will unfold as a dance-off against a group of magical dancers. Ideally, I would like to be able to run the encounter as something that allows the player roles to be somewhat reversed in combat, where the tanks who normally deal out the damage will be less effective than the charismatic squishy characters who normally have to resort to stealth. Damage from this encounter should bypass hit points/AC in some way, so bulky characters with lots of HP and AC would end up in more of a support role. I want to run this as a combat encounter, and not a series of ability checks.



Initially, I thought I could accomplish this with temporary ability score damage, but ability score damage is so rare in 5e that there doesn't seem to be much information on it. A secondary approach would be to invoke an additional stat like morale or honor in the DMG, which I am fine with.



The preferred version of this encounter would involve a shuffled playlist of music IRL, with songs marked as enemy- or player-benefiting that bestow a small bonus to actions taken while that song is playing. What are some ways to accomplish this while minimizing the amount of time needed to explain the rules for this one-off encounter?










share|improve this question









New contributor



A Random Guy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




My players will be soon be encountering a fight that will unfold as a dance-off against a group of magical dancers. Ideally, I would like to be able to run the encounter as something that allows the player roles to be somewhat reversed in combat, where the tanks who normally deal out the damage will be less effective than the charismatic squishy characters who normally have to resort to stealth. Damage from this encounter should bypass hit points/AC in some way, so bulky characters with lots of HP and AC would end up in more of a support role. I want to run this as a combat encounter, and not a series of ability checks.



Initially, I thought I could accomplish this with temporary ability score damage, but ability score damage is so rare in 5e that there doesn't seem to be much information on it. A secondary approach would be to invoke an additional stat like morale or honor in the DMG, which I am fine with.



The preferred version of this encounter would involve a shuffled playlist of music IRL, with songs marked as enemy- or player-benefiting that bestow a small bonus to actions taken while that song is playing. What are some ways to accomplish this while minimizing the amount of time needed to explain the rules for this one-off encounter?







dnd-5e encounter-design






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edited 2 hours ago









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asked 9 hours ago









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  • 7




    $begingroup$
    For those answering, please remember that we aren't here to generate ideas. If you've got ideas, please back them up. We shouldn't upvote idea generation.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    9 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @MarkTO This should probably move to a Meta discussion, but that is generally covered in the link about backing them up. Subjective questions are more than fine - but that doesn't mean we can't support a subjective answer. Please take a look at my original link, the SO blog post going into more detail, and this meta q.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago












  • 7




    $begingroup$
    For those answering, please remember that we aren't here to generate ideas. If you've got ideas, please back them up. We shouldn't upvote idea generation.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    9 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @MarkTO This should probably move to a Meta discussion, but that is generally covered in the link about backing them up. Subjective questions are more than fine - but that doesn't mean we can't support a subjective answer. Please take a look at my original link, the SO blog post going into more detail, and this meta q.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago







7




7




$begingroup$
For those answering, please remember that we aren't here to generate ideas. If you've got ideas, please back them up. We shouldn't upvote idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
For those answering, please remember that we aren't here to generate ideas. If you've got ideas, please back them up. We shouldn't upvote idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
9 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
@MarkTO This should probably move to a Meta discussion, but that is generally covered in the link about backing them up. Subjective questions are more than fine - but that doesn't mean we can't support a subjective answer. Please take a look at my original link, the SO blog post going into more detail, and this meta q.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
@MarkTO This should probably move to a Meta discussion, but that is generally covered in the link about backing them up. Subjective questions are more than fine - but that doesn't mean we can't support a subjective answer. Please take a look at my original link, the SO blog post going into more detail, and this meta q.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
6 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

Exhaustion is a perfect way to simulate damage in this type of encounter



The primary issue is that the default exhaustion track is brutal. So to make it work effectively you would need to extend and tweak it.



There is an excellent article on D&D Beyond that explores the idea of replacing hit points with exhaustion.



The crux of the article is




You can adapt this idea to D&D by removing hit points entirely, and giving each class their own exhaustion track. A character’s exhaustion track is determined by the size of your class’s hit die, plus your Constitution modifier. For instance, a wizard or a sorcerer has a 6-step exhaustion track, because the wizard and sorcerer classes have a d6 hit die. Likewise, a fighter, paladin, or ranger has a 10-step exhaustion track because those classes have a d10 hit die. Finally, your character’s exhaustion track is extended by a number equal to your Constitution modifier; if your character’s Constitution modifier is negative, your track is reduced by that number of steps.  



Whenever you gain a level, your exhaustion track increases by one.  



Also, since the fourth step of the exhaustion track in the core rules is "hit point maximum halved," this step will have to be replaced. Instead, creatures that have reached this step can only take an action or a bonus action on their turn, not both. Additionally, they can't take reactions.




Specifically for a dance-off style encounter I would suggest the very last step on the track be changed to "unable to compete" instead of "Death" (unless you want this to be a risk of the encounter).



Lastly, as is also mentioned in the article, you would need to come up with a way to regain exhaustion levels during the fight.



For the actual mechanics of making an attack...I would suggest taking a look at Dale M's excellent answer.



Specifically, make use of skill/ability checks based on those relevant to a dance off (Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence and Charisma).



  • Dexterity and Strength for the physical moves

  • Intelligence for hurling insults and quips

  • Charisma for delivering blows to the opponents confidence

For an armor class substitute, use the mental ability scores to fuel AC instead of the physical ones that fuel normal combat AC.



  • 10 + Mental Stat Bonus





share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Have you tried this yourself? How did it work out?
    $endgroup$
    – linksassin
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @linksassin I've not had a chance to try the exhaustion as hit points mechanic yet, however I plan to playtest it in a one shot I'm looking to DM. However the D&D Beyond article where the idea was originally presented is my reference for this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    That's fair enough. I have my concerns about this rule in general but it does seem like a good use case for it here.
    $endgroup$
    – linksassin
    56 mins ago


















1












$begingroup$

Opposed Ability Checks with a Homebrew Mechanic



First up, you need to decide is this a combat encounter with flavour additional mechanics, or a dance-battle with no actual combat? The answer to that will make a big difference to how you want to run it. Personally, I favour the second option as it gives the players who can't dance a chance to contribute with their normal combat skills.



Combat with flavourful mechanics



Story time! I was a player in this situation so I don't know the precise mechanics but I can tell you it is the most memorable battle of our campaign to date. The players all loved it, particularly the bard who was the centre of it. Note; the actual mechanics in this campaign are a bit fluid, if the DM wants it to work that way for that session, it does and we just roll with it.



We found a map to the ancient tomb of the world's most famous bard, Morgan. After solving a series of complicated puzzles and traps we reached the underground lake in a cavern beneath the tomb. Here a necromancer had raised Morgan and was using his musical magic to control vast hoards of undead.



Stretching out into the lake was a thin strip of land, leading to the island where the necromancer and bard were completing their dark rituals. The strip of land was only 10 feet wide and 100 feet long. Hordes of undead were rising up out of the water either side, controlled by Morgan's music.



Enter; our own bard, Sebastian. He pulled out his violin and began to challenge Morgan to the greatest riff-off the world had ever heard. Each round, Sebastian and Morgan made opposed Charisma (Performance) checks to see how the undead would behave that round. (The DM had made up some quick rules for this.) While the rest of the party fought our way across the land bridge toward the necromancer and Morgan.



We eventually reached the island, and Sebastian won the riff-off, driving back the undead. Leaving us to kill the necromancer and put Morgan to rest. Sebastian gained a magic violin as a reward and we returned to our main quest.



The opposed skill checks added an additional dimension to the combat that made it really fun. By still being a traditional combat the rest of the party weren't bored watching the bard do his thing. From my experience I would suggest you take a similar approach.



If you take this approach you need to work out a couple of things:



  • How do the ability checks work? Does it take an action from a PC? Happen once at the top of each round? Or is it something else?

  • What are the consequences of success or failure? What are the ability checks achieving?

  • How can the rest of the party continue to be involved? Is there something for them to fight/do?

Non-combat dance battle



This option is more like a mini-game, similar to something you would run in a market or festival. We have had a bunch of this sort of the thing in our campaign and they typically follow a similar pattern.



  1. DM decides on some kind of arbitrary scoring mechanic.

    • Most rounds won, total score, points from 'judges', etc...


  2. Participants make several rounds of ability checks.

    • These can be the same skill, different skills chosen by the DM, or a skill chosen by the player from a set of options.

    • These can either be opposed checks or against fixed DCs determined by round. This usually depends on the exact game and scoring system. Drinking contests use fixed, increasing DCs while arm-wrestle use opposed checks.


  3. A winner is determined within 3-5 rolls and awarded a prize.

    • Going longer than this makes the challenge repetitive and dull.

    • Shorter means players can be ruined by a single bad roll.


Use this option if you don't want this to actually be a combat encounter. These can be fun for a short while but aren't something you should spend a lot of time on.






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$endgroup$




















    0












    $begingroup$

    D&D 5e is entirely based on ability checks



    An ability check looks like this - roll a d201, add an ability modifier and possibly a proficiency bonus2 and compare it to a target number3 - if it equals or exceeds that number you succeed, if it doesn't you fail.



    WotC make this confusing by making a distinction without meaning between ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls.4 All of these are the exact same mechanic - the only difference is in that what success means for attack rolls and saving throws is well defined: damage is done or specific effects are mitigated/avoided respectively. While for ability checks success means - whatever the creature wanted to happen happens.



    1 Or a number of d20s if advantage/disadvantage or other mechanics apply.



    2 Possibly doubled or halved depending on certain features.



    3 Which may be static or generated by a complementary process in the case of contests.



    4To be fair, WotC is constrained by the legacy of D&D - to be D&D a game has to have certain mechanics including ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls even if these are really the same thing under the hood. Also, WotC have used the distinction to hand other effects off - some things affect ability checks but not attack rolls and saving throws etc.



    So you want this to be a combat encounter but bypassing hit points & armor class



    Well, I want my car to be a boat but the damn thing just won't float. So lets see if we can put a raft under this thing.



    So combat is a series of ability checks (attacks) that, if successful, do variable damage based on the nature of the attack to a stockpile of resources based on class, level and Constitution and when that stockpile is exhausted you are out of the fight. Oh, and there are things in the game that can replenish that stockpile. This would seem to be the essence of what we have to capture.



    So, where do we look for this stockpile? Well, hit points are "a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck." That seems to be exactly what you would be relying on if you want to win a dance contest so why don't we just use them.



    As for the type of damage that being (figuratively) burned so that your self-esteem lies crushed and bleeding on the dance floor - sounds like Psychic to me.



    We now need to find a substitute for AC. Now, one way of thinking about AC is that it is a passive ability check (Dexterity) used in a contest against the attack roll. So can we think of an ability that represents what you need to fend off a stunning dance move designed to crush your ego, you know, one that represents "confidence"? Yep, Charisma. So your DAC (Dance AC) is 10 + your Charisma bonus.



    As for making the dance attack, you can impress with "raw physical force" (Strength), inspire with "agility, reflexes, and balance" (Dexterity) or beat the opponent down with your "commanding personality" (Charisma). You could even stun the opponent with your "accuracy of recall" (Intelligence) by throwing their moves back into their teeth, or amaze with how "attuned you are to the world around you" (Wisdom) by performing off the environment or simply rely on your "health, stamina, and vital force" (Constitution) to outlast your opponent. Basically , let the character's play to their strengths.



    As for which skills will grant a proficiency bonus: Performance, Athletics and Acrobatics are obvious, Slight of Hand is a contender for some surprising moves, History can let you recall the stunning dance routines of the ancient [insert lost civilization here] while Religion lets you draw on sacred dances to the gods, Animal Handling could work if you choose a snake dance or other routine involving an animal, Insight can allow you to match your partner or opponent as could Perception or you might want to use Deception, Intimidation or Persuasion. Look, creatures almost always get a proficiency bonus on attacks so you should be generous here, if a quasi-reasonable case can be made, its in.



    So, now just dance out the combat.






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      3 Answers
      3






      active

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      active

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      active

      oldest

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      3












      $begingroup$

      Exhaustion is a perfect way to simulate damage in this type of encounter



      The primary issue is that the default exhaustion track is brutal. So to make it work effectively you would need to extend and tweak it.



      There is an excellent article on D&D Beyond that explores the idea of replacing hit points with exhaustion.



      The crux of the article is




      You can adapt this idea to D&D by removing hit points entirely, and giving each class their own exhaustion track. A character’s exhaustion track is determined by the size of your class’s hit die, plus your Constitution modifier. For instance, a wizard or a sorcerer has a 6-step exhaustion track, because the wizard and sorcerer classes have a d6 hit die. Likewise, a fighter, paladin, or ranger has a 10-step exhaustion track because those classes have a d10 hit die. Finally, your character’s exhaustion track is extended by a number equal to your Constitution modifier; if your character’s Constitution modifier is negative, your track is reduced by that number of steps.  



      Whenever you gain a level, your exhaustion track increases by one.  



      Also, since the fourth step of the exhaustion track in the core rules is "hit point maximum halved," this step will have to be replaced. Instead, creatures that have reached this step can only take an action or a bonus action on their turn, not both. Additionally, they can't take reactions.




      Specifically for a dance-off style encounter I would suggest the very last step on the track be changed to "unable to compete" instead of "Death" (unless you want this to be a risk of the encounter).



      Lastly, as is also mentioned in the article, you would need to come up with a way to regain exhaustion levels during the fight.



      For the actual mechanics of making an attack...I would suggest taking a look at Dale M's excellent answer.



      Specifically, make use of skill/ability checks based on those relevant to a dance off (Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence and Charisma).



      • Dexterity and Strength for the physical moves

      • Intelligence for hurling insults and quips

      • Charisma for delivering blows to the opponents confidence

      For an armor class substitute, use the mental ability scores to fuel AC instead of the physical ones that fuel normal combat AC.



      • 10 + Mental Stat Bonus





      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Have you tried this yourself? How did it work out?
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @linksassin I've not had a chance to try the exhaustion as hit points mechanic yet, however I plan to playtest it in a one shot I'm looking to DM. However the D&D Beyond article where the idea was originally presented is my reference for this answer.
        $endgroup$
        – illustro
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's fair enough. I have my concerns about this rule in general but it does seem like a good use case for it here.
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        56 mins ago















      3












      $begingroup$

      Exhaustion is a perfect way to simulate damage in this type of encounter



      The primary issue is that the default exhaustion track is brutal. So to make it work effectively you would need to extend and tweak it.



      There is an excellent article on D&D Beyond that explores the idea of replacing hit points with exhaustion.



      The crux of the article is




      You can adapt this idea to D&D by removing hit points entirely, and giving each class their own exhaustion track. A character’s exhaustion track is determined by the size of your class’s hit die, plus your Constitution modifier. For instance, a wizard or a sorcerer has a 6-step exhaustion track, because the wizard and sorcerer classes have a d6 hit die. Likewise, a fighter, paladin, or ranger has a 10-step exhaustion track because those classes have a d10 hit die. Finally, your character’s exhaustion track is extended by a number equal to your Constitution modifier; if your character’s Constitution modifier is negative, your track is reduced by that number of steps.  



      Whenever you gain a level, your exhaustion track increases by one.  



      Also, since the fourth step of the exhaustion track in the core rules is "hit point maximum halved," this step will have to be replaced. Instead, creatures that have reached this step can only take an action or a bonus action on their turn, not both. Additionally, they can't take reactions.




      Specifically for a dance-off style encounter I would suggest the very last step on the track be changed to "unable to compete" instead of "Death" (unless you want this to be a risk of the encounter).



      Lastly, as is also mentioned in the article, you would need to come up with a way to regain exhaustion levels during the fight.



      For the actual mechanics of making an attack...I would suggest taking a look at Dale M's excellent answer.



      Specifically, make use of skill/ability checks based on those relevant to a dance off (Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence and Charisma).



      • Dexterity and Strength for the physical moves

      • Intelligence for hurling insults and quips

      • Charisma for delivering blows to the opponents confidence

      For an armor class substitute, use the mental ability scores to fuel AC instead of the physical ones that fuel normal combat AC.



      • 10 + Mental Stat Bonus





      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Have you tried this yourself? How did it work out?
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @linksassin I've not had a chance to try the exhaustion as hit points mechanic yet, however I plan to playtest it in a one shot I'm looking to DM. However the D&D Beyond article where the idea was originally presented is my reference for this answer.
        $endgroup$
        – illustro
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's fair enough. I have my concerns about this rule in general but it does seem like a good use case for it here.
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        56 mins ago













      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$

      Exhaustion is a perfect way to simulate damage in this type of encounter



      The primary issue is that the default exhaustion track is brutal. So to make it work effectively you would need to extend and tweak it.



      There is an excellent article on D&D Beyond that explores the idea of replacing hit points with exhaustion.



      The crux of the article is




      You can adapt this idea to D&D by removing hit points entirely, and giving each class their own exhaustion track. A character’s exhaustion track is determined by the size of your class’s hit die, plus your Constitution modifier. For instance, a wizard or a sorcerer has a 6-step exhaustion track, because the wizard and sorcerer classes have a d6 hit die. Likewise, a fighter, paladin, or ranger has a 10-step exhaustion track because those classes have a d10 hit die. Finally, your character’s exhaustion track is extended by a number equal to your Constitution modifier; if your character’s Constitution modifier is negative, your track is reduced by that number of steps.  



      Whenever you gain a level, your exhaustion track increases by one.  



      Also, since the fourth step of the exhaustion track in the core rules is "hit point maximum halved," this step will have to be replaced. Instead, creatures that have reached this step can only take an action or a bonus action on their turn, not both. Additionally, they can't take reactions.




      Specifically for a dance-off style encounter I would suggest the very last step on the track be changed to "unable to compete" instead of "Death" (unless you want this to be a risk of the encounter).



      Lastly, as is also mentioned in the article, you would need to come up with a way to regain exhaustion levels during the fight.



      For the actual mechanics of making an attack...I would suggest taking a look at Dale M's excellent answer.



      Specifically, make use of skill/ability checks based on those relevant to a dance off (Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence and Charisma).



      • Dexterity and Strength for the physical moves

      • Intelligence for hurling insults and quips

      • Charisma for delivering blows to the opponents confidence

      For an armor class substitute, use the mental ability scores to fuel AC instead of the physical ones that fuel normal combat AC.



      • 10 + Mental Stat Bonus





      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Exhaustion is a perfect way to simulate damage in this type of encounter



      The primary issue is that the default exhaustion track is brutal. So to make it work effectively you would need to extend and tweak it.



      There is an excellent article on D&D Beyond that explores the idea of replacing hit points with exhaustion.



      The crux of the article is




      You can adapt this idea to D&D by removing hit points entirely, and giving each class their own exhaustion track. A character’s exhaustion track is determined by the size of your class’s hit die, plus your Constitution modifier. For instance, a wizard or a sorcerer has a 6-step exhaustion track, because the wizard and sorcerer classes have a d6 hit die. Likewise, a fighter, paladin, or ranger has a 10-step exhaustion track because those classes have a d10 hit die. Finally, your character’s exhaustion track is extended by a number equal to your Constitution modifier; if your character’s Constitution modifier is negative, your track is reduced by that number of steps.  



      Whenever you gain a level, your exhaustion track increases by one.  



      Also, since the fourth step of the exhaustion track in the core rules is "hit point maximum halved," this step will have to be replaced. Instead, creatures that have reached this step can only take an action or a bonus action on their turn, not both. Additionally, they can't take reactions.




      Specifically for a dance-off style encounter I would suggest the very last step on the track be changed to "unable to compete" instead of "Death" (unless you want this to be a risk of the encounter).



      Lastly, as is also mentioned in the article, you would need to come up with a way to regain exhaustion levels during the fight.



      For the actual mechanics of making an attack...I would suggest taking a look at Dale M's excellent answer.



      Specifically, make use of skill/ability checks based on those relevant to a dance off (Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence and Charisma).



      • Dexterity and Strength for the physical moves

      • Intelligence for hurling insults and quips

      • Charisma for delivering blows to the opponents confidence

      For an armor class substitute, use the mental ability scores to fuel AC instead of the physical ones that fuel normal combat AC.



      • 10 + Mental Stat Bonus






      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 1 hour ago

























      answered 1 hour ago









      illustroillustro

      10.6k23583




      10.6k23583







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Have you tried this yourself? How did it work out?
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @linksassin I've not had a chance to try the exhaustion as hit points mechanic yet, however I plan to playtest it in a one shot I'm looking to DM. However the D&D Beyond article where the idea was originally presented is my reference for this answer.
        $endgroup$
        – illustro
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's fair enough. I have my concerns about this rule in general but it does seem like a good use case for it here.
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        56 mins ago












      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Have you tried this yourself? How did it work out?
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @linksassin I've not had a chance to try the exhaustion as hit points mechanic yet, however I plan to playtest it in a one shot I'm looking to DM. However the D&D Beyond article where the idea was originally presented is my reference for this answer.
        $endgroup$
        – illustro
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's fair enough. I have my concerns about this rule in general but it does seem like a good use case for it here.
        $endgroup$
        – linksassin
        56 mins ago







      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Have you tried this yourself? How did it work out?
      $endgroup$
      – linksassin
      1 hour ago




      $begingroup$
      Have you tried this yourself? How did it work out?
      $endgroup$
      – linksassin
      1 hour ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      @linksassin I've not had a chance to try the exhaustion as hit points mechanic yet, however I plan to playtest it in a one shot I'm looking to DM. However the D&D Beyond article where the idea was originally presented is my reference for this answer.
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      1 hour ago




      $begingroup$
      @linksassin I've not had a chance to try the exhaustion as hit points mechanic yet, however I plan to playtest it in a one shot I'm looking to DM. However the D&D Beyond article where the idea was originally presented is my reference for this answer.
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      1 hour ago












      $begingroup$
      That's fair enough. I have my concerns about this rule in general but it does seem like a good use case for it here.
      $endgroup$
      – linksassin
      56 mins ago




      $begingroup$
      That's fair enough. I have my concerns about this rule in general but it does seem like a good use case for it here.
      $endgroup$
      – linksassin
      56 mins ago













      1












      $begingroup$

      Opposed Ability Checks with a Homebrew Mechanic



      First up, you need to decide is this a combat encounter with flavour additional mechanics, or a dance-battle with no actual combat? The answer to that will make a big difference to how you want to run it. Personally, I favour the second option as it gives the players who can't dance a chance to contribute with their normal combat skills.



      Combat with flavourful mechanics



      Story time! I was a player in this situation so I don't know the precise mechanics but I can tell you it is the most memorable battle of our campaign to date. The players all loved it, particularly the bard who was the centre of it. Note; the actual mechanics in this campaign are a bit fluid, if the DM wants it to work that way for that session, it does and we just roll with it.



      We found a map to the ancient tomb of the world's most famous bard, Morgan. After solving a series of complicated puzzles and traps we reached the underground lake in a cavern beneath the tomb. Here a necromancer had raised Morgan and was using his musical magic to control vast hoards of undead.



      Stretching out into the lake was a thin strip of land, leading to the island where the necromancer and bard were completing their dark rituals. The strip of land was only 10 feet wide and 100 feet long. Hordes of undead were rising up out of the water either side, controlled by Morgan's music.



      Enter; our own bard, Sebastian. He pulled out his violin and began to challenge Morgan to the greatest riff-off the world had ever heard. Each round, Sebastian and Morgan made opposed Charisma (Performance) checks to see how the undead would behave that round. (The DM had made up some quick rules for this.) While the rest of the party fought our way across the land bridge toward the necromancer and Morgan.



      We eventually reached the island, and Sebastian won the riff-off, driving back the undead. Leaving us to kill the necromancer and put Morgan to rest. Sebastian gained a magic violin as a reward and we returned to our main quest.



      The opposed skill checks added an additional dimension to the combat that made it really fun. By still being a traditional combat the rest of the party weren't bored watching the bard do his thing. From my experience I would suggest you take a similar approach.



      If you take this approach you need to work out a couple of things:



      • How do the ability checks work? Does it take an action from a PC? Happen once at the top of each round? Or is it something else?

      • What are the consequences of success or failure? What are the ability checks achieving?

      • How can the rest of the party continue to be involved? Is there something for them to fight/do?

      Non-combat dance battle



      This option is more like a mini-game, similar to something you would run in a market or festival. We have had a bunch of this sort of the thing in our campaign and they typically follow a similar pattern.



      1. DM decides on some kind of arbitrary scoring mechanic.

        • Most rounds won, total score, points from 'judges', etc...


      2. Participants make several rounds of ability checks.

        • These can be the same skill, different skills chosen by the DM, or a skill chosen by the player from a set of options.

        • These can either be opposed checks or against fixed DCs determined by round. This usually depends on the exact game and scoring system. Drinking contests use fixed, increasing DCs while arm-wrestle use opposed checks.


      3. A winner is determined within 3-5 rolls and awarded a prize.

        • Going longer than this makes the challenge repetitive and dull.

        • Shorter means players can be ruined by a single bad roll.


      Use this option if you don't want this to actually be a combat encounter. These can be fun for a short while but aren't something you should spend a lot of time on.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        1












        $begingroup$

        Opposed Ability Checks with a Homebrew Mechanic



        First up, you need to decide is this a combat encounter with flavour additional mechanics, or a dance-battle with no actual combat? The answer to that will make a big difference to how you want to run it. Personally, I favour the second option as it gives the players who can't dance a chance to contribute with their normal combat skills.



        Combat with flavourful mechanics



        Story time! I was a player in this situation so I don't know the precise mechanics but I can tell you it is the most memorable battle of our campaign to date. The players all loved it, particularly the bard who was the centre of it. Note; the actual mechanics in this campaign are a bit fluid, if the DM wants it to work that way for that session, it does and we just roll with it.



        We found a map to the ancient tomb of the world's most famous bard, Morgan. After solving a series of complicated puzzles and traps we reached the underground lake in a cavern beneath the tomb. Here a necromancer had raised Morgan and was using his musical magic to control vast hoards of undead.



        Stretching out into the lake was a thin strip of land, leading to the island where the necromancer and bard were completing their dark rituals. The strip of land was only 10 feet wide and 100 feet long. Hordes of undead were rising up out of the water either side, controlled by Morgan's music.



        Enter; our own bard, Sebastian. He pulled out his violin and began to challenge Morgan to the greatest riff-off the world had ever heard. Each round, Sebastian and Morgan made opposed Charisma (Performance) checks to see how the undead would behave that round. (The DM had made up some quick rules for this.) While the rest of the party fought our way across the land bridge toward the necromancer and Morgan.



        We eventually reached the island, and Sebastian won the riff-off, driving back the undead. Leaving us to kill the necromancer and put Morgan to rest. Sebastian gained a magic violin as a reward and we returned to our main quest.



        The opposed skill checks added an additional dimension to the combat that made it really fun. By still being a traditional combat the rest of the party weren't bored watching the bard do his thing. From my experience I would suggest you take a similar approach.



        If you take this approach you need to work out a couple of things:



        • How do the ability checks work? Does it take an action from a PC? Happen once at the top of each round? Or is it something else?

        • What are the consequences of success or failure? What are the ability checks achieving?

        • How can the rest of the party continue to be involved? Is there something for them to fight/do?

        Non-combat dance battle



        This option is more like a mini-game, similar to something you would run in a market or festival. We have had a bunch of this sort of the thing in our campaign and they typically follow a similar pattern.



        1. DM decides on some kind of arbitrary scoring mechanic.

          • Most rounds won, total score, points from 'judges', etc...


        2. Participants make several rounds of ability checks.

          • These can be the same skill, different skills chosen by the DM, or a skill chosen by the player from a set of options.

          • These can either be opposed checks or against fixed DCs determined by round. This usually depends on the exact game and scoring system. Drinking contests use fixed, increasing DCs while arm-wrestle use opposed checks.


        3. A winner is determined within 3-5 rolls and awarded a prize.

          • Going longer than this makes the challenge repetitive and dull.

          • Shorter means players can be ruined by a single bad roll.


        Use this option if you don't want this to actually be a combat encounter. These can be fun for a short while but aren't something you should spend a lot of time on.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Opposed Ability Checks with a Homebrew Mechanic



          First up, you need to decide is this a combat encounter with flavour additional mechanics, or a dance-battle with no actual combat? The answer to that will make a big difference to how you want to run it. Personally, I favour the second option as it gives the players who can't dance a chance to contribute with their normal combat skills.



          Combat with flavourful mechanics



          Story time! I was a player in this situation so I don't know the precise mechanics but I can tell you it is the most memorable battle of our campaign to date. The players all loved it, particularly the bard who was the centre of it. Note; the actual mechanics in this campaign are a bit fluid, if the DM wants it to work that way for that session, it does and we just roll with it.



          We found a map to the ancient tomb of the world's most famous bard, Morgan. After solving a series of complicated puzzles and traps we reached the underground lake in a cavern beneath the tomb. Here a necromancer had raised Morgan and was using his musical magic to control vast hoards of undead.



          Stretching out into the lake was a thin strip of land, leading to the island where the necromancer and bard were completing their dark rituals. The strip of land was only 10 feet wide and 100 feet long. Hordes of undead were rising up out of the water either side, controlled by Morgan's music.



          Enter; our own bard, Sebastian. He pulled out his violin and began to challenge Morgan to the greatest riff-off the world had ever heard. Each round, Sebastian and Morgan made opposed Charisma (Performance) checks to see how the undead would behave that round. (The DM had made up some quick rules for this.) While the rest of the party fought our way across the land bridge toward the necromancer and Morgan.



          We eventually reached the island, and Sebastian won the riff-off, driving back the undead. Leaving us to kill the necromancer and put Morgan to rest. Sebastian gained a magic violin as a reward and we returned to our main quest.



          The opposed skill checks added an additional dimension to the combat that made it really fun. By still being a traditional combat the rest of the party weren't bored watching the bard do his thing. From my experience I would suggest you take a similar approach.



          If you take this approach you need to work out a couple of things:



          • How do the ability checks work? Does it take an action from a PC? Happen once at the top of each round? Or is it something else?

          • What are the consequences of success or failure? What are the ability checks achieving?

          • How can the rest of the party continue to be involved? Is there something for them to fight/do?

          Non-combat dance battle



          This option is more like a mini-game, similar to something you would run in a market or festival. We have had a bunch of this sort of the thing in our campaign and they typically follow a similar pattern.



          1. DM decides on some kind of arbitrary scoring mechanic.

            • Most rounds won, total score, points from 'judges', etc...


          2. Participants make several rounds of ability checks.

            • These can be the same skill, different skills chosen by the DM, or a skill chosen by the player from a set of options.

            • These can either be opposed checks or against fixed DCs determined by round. This usually depends on the exact game and scoring system. Drinking contests use fixed, increasing DCs while arm-wrestle use opposed checks.


          3. A winner is determined within 3-5 rolls and awarded a prize.

            • Going longer than this makes the challenge repetitive and dull.

            • Shorter means players can be ruined by a single bad roll.


          Use this option if you don't want this to actually be a combat encounter. These can be fun for a short while but aren't something you should spend a lot of time on.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Opposed Ability Checks with a Homebrew Mechanic



          First up, you need to decide is this a combat encounter with flavour additional mechanics, or a dance-battle with no actual combat? The answer to that will make a big difference to how you want to run it. Personally, I favour the second option as it gives the players who can't dance a chance to contribute with their normal combat skills.



          Combat with flavourful mechanics



          Story time! I was a player in this situation so I don't know the precise mechanics but I can tell you it is the most memorable battle of our campaign to date. The players all loved it, particularly the bard who was the centre of it. Note; the actual mechanics in this campaign are a bit fluid, if the DM wants it to work that way for that session, it does and we just roll with it.



          We found a map to the ancient tomb of the world's most famous bard, Morgan. After solving a series of complicated puzzles and traps we reached the underground lake in a cavern beneath the tomb. Here a necromancer had raised Morgan and was using his musical magic to control vast hoards of undead.



          Stretching out into the lake was a thin strip of land, leading to the island where the necromancer and bard were completing their dark rituals. The strip of land was only 10 feet wide and 100 feet long. Hordes of undead were rising up out of the water either side, controlled by Morgan's music.



          Enter; our own bard, Sebastian. He pulled out his violin and began to challenge Morgan to the greatest riff-off the world had ever heard. Each round, Sebastian and Morgan made opposed Charisma (Performance) checks to see how the undead would behave that round. (The DM had made up some quick rules for this.) While the rest of the party fought our way across the land bridge toward the necromancer and Morgan.



          We eventually reached the island, and Sebastian won the riff-off, driving back the undead. Leaving us to kill the necromancer and put Morgan to rest. Sebastian gained a magic violin as a reward and we returned to our main quest.



          The opposed skill checks added an additional dimension to the combat that made it really fun. By still being a traditional combat the rest of the party weren't bored watching the bard do his thing. From my experience I would suggest you take a similar approach.



          If you take this approach you need to work out a couple of things:



          • How do the ability checks work? Does it take an action from a PC? Happen once at the top of each round? Or is it something else?

          • What are the consequences of success or failure? What are the ability checks achieving?

          • How can the rest of the party continue to be involved? Is there something for them to fight/do?

          Non-combat dance battle



          This option is more like a mini-game, similar to something you would run in a market or festival. We have had a bunch of this sort of the thing in our campaign and they typically follow a similar pattern.



          1. DM decides on some kind of arbitrary scoring mechanic.

            • Most rounds won, total score, points from 'judges', etc...


          2. Participants make several rounds of ability checks.

            • These can be the same skill, different skills chosen by the DM, or a skill chosen by the player from a set of options.

            • These can either be opposed checks or against fixed DCs determined by round. This usually depends on the exact game and scoring system. Drinking contests use fixed, increasing DCs while arm-wrestle use opposed checks.


          3. A winner is determined within 3-5 rolls and awarded a prize.

            • Going longer than this makes the challenge repetitive and dull.

            • Shorter means players can be ruined by a single bad roll.


          Use this option if you don't want this to actually be a combat encounter. These can be fun for a short while but aren't something you should spend a lot of time on.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          linksassinlinksassin

          13.7k14799




          13.7k14799





















              0












              $begingroup$

              D&D 5e is entirely based on ability checks



              An ability check looks like this - roll a d201, add an ability modifier and possibly a proficiency bonus2 and compare it to a target number3 - if it equals or exceeds that number you succeed, if it doesn't you fail.



              WotC make this confusing by making a distinction without meaning between ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls.4 All of these are the exact same mechanic - the only difference is in that what success means for attack rolls and saving throws is well defined: damage is done or specific effects are mitigated/avoided respectively. While for ability checks success means - whatever the creature wanted to happen happens.



              1 Or a number of d20s if advantage/disadvantage or other mechanics apply.



              2 Possibly doubled or halved depending on certain features.



              3 Which may be static or generated by a complementary process in the case of contests.



              4To be fair, WotC is constrained by the legacy of D&D - to be D&D a game has to have certain mechanics including ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls even if these are really the same thing under the hood. Also, WotC have used the distinction to hand other effects off - some things affect ability checks but not attack rolls and saving throws etc.



              So you want this to be a combat encounter but bypassing hit points & armor class



              Well, I want my car to be a boat but the damn thing just won't float. So lets see if we can put a raft under this thing.



              So combat is a series of ability checks (attacks) that, if successful, do variable damage based on the nature of the attack to a stockpile of resources based on class, level and Constitution and when that stockpile is exhausted you are out of the fight. Oh, and there are things in the game that can replenish that stockpile. This would seem to be the essence of what we have to capture.



              So, where do we look for this stockpile? Well, hit points are "a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck." That seems to be exactly what you would be relying on if you want to win a dance contest so why don't we just use them.



              As for the type of damage that being (figuratively) burned so that your self-esteem lies crushed and bleeding on the dance floor - sounds like Psychic to me.



              We now need to find a substitute for AC. Now, one way of thinking about AC is that it is a passive ability check (Dexterity) used in a contest against the attack roll. So can we think of an ability that represents what you need to fend off a stunning dance move designed to crush your ego, you know, one that represents "confidence"? Yep, Charisma. So your DAC (Dance AC) is 10 + your Charisma bonus.



              As for making the dance attack, you can impress with "raw physical force" (Strength), inspire with "agility, reflexes, and balance" (Dexterity) or beat the opponent down with your "commanding personality" (Charisma). You could even stun the opponent with your "accuracy of recall" (Intelligence) by throwing their moves back into their teeth, or amaze with how "attuned you are to the world around you" (Wisdom) by performing off the environment or simply rely on your "health, stamina, and vital force" (Constitution) to outlast your opponent. Basically , let the character's play to their strengths.



              As for which skills will grant a proficiency bonus: Performance, Athletics and Acrobatics are obvious, Slight of Hand is a contender for some surprising moves, History can let you recall the stunning dance routines of the ancient [insert lost civilization here] while Religion lets you draw on sacred dances to the gods, Animal Handling could work if you choose a snake dance or other routine involving an animal, Insight can allow you to match your partner or opponent as could Perception or you might want to use Deception, Intimidation or Persuasion. Look, creatures almost always get a proficiency bonus on attacks so you should be generous here, if a quasi-reasonable case can be made, its in.



              So, now just dance out the combat.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                0












                $begingroup$

                D&D 5e is entirely based on ability checks



                An ability check looks like this - roll a d201, add an ability modifier and possibly a proficiency bonus2 and compare it to a target number3 - if it equals or exceeds that number you succeed, if it doesn't you fail.



                WotC make this confusing by making a distinction without meaning between ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls.4 All of these are the exact same mechanic - the only difference is in that what success means for attack rolls and saving throws is well defined: damage is done or specific effects are mitigated/avoided respectively. While for ability checks success means - whatever the creature wanted to happen happens.



                1 Or a number of d20s if advantage/disadvantage or other mechanics apply.



                2 Possibly doubled or halved depending on certain features.



                3 Which may be static or generated by a complementary process in the case of contests.



                4To be fair, WotC is constrained by the legacy of D&D - to be D&D a game has to have certain mechanics including ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls even if these are really the same thing under the hood. Also, WotC have used the distinction to hand other effects off - some things affect ability checks but not attack rolls and saving throws etc.



                So you want this to be a combat encounter but bypassing hit points & armor class



                Well, I want my car to be a boat but the damn thing just won't float. So lets see if we can put a raft under this thing.



                So combat is a series of ability checks (attacks) that, if successful, do variable damage based on the nature of the attack to a stockpile of resources based on class, level and Constitution and when that stockpile is exhausted you are out of the fight. Oh, and there are things in the game that can replenish that stockpile. This would seem to be the essence of what we have to capture.



                So, where do we look for this stockpile? Well, hit points are "a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck." That seems to be exactly what you would be relying on if you want to win a dance contest so why don't we just use them.



                As for the type of damage that being (figuratively) burned so that your self-esteem lies crushed and bleeding on the dance floor - sounds like Psychic to me.



                We now need to find a substitute for AC. Now, one way of thinking about AC is that it is a passive ability check (Dexterity) used in a contest against the attack roll. So can we think of an ability that represents what you need to fend off a stunning dance move designed to crush your ego, you know, one that represents "confidence"? Yep, Charisma. So your DAC (Dance AC) is 10 + your Charisma bonus.



                As for making the dance attack, you can impress with "raw physical force" (Strength), inspire with "agility, reflexes, and balance" (Dexterity) or beat the opponent down with your "commanding personality" (Charisma). You could even stun the opponent with your "accuracy of recall" (Intelligence) by throwing their moves back into their teeth, or amaze with how "attuned you are to the world around you" (Wisdom) by performing off the environment or simply rely on your "health, stamina, and vital force" (Constitution) to outlast your opponent. Basically , let the character's play to their strengths.



                As for which skills will grant a proficiency bonus: Performance, Athletics and Acrobatics are obvious, Slight of Hand is a contender for some surprising moves, History can let you recall the stunning dance routines of the ancient [insert lost civilization here] while Religion lets you draw on sacred dances to the gods, Animal Handling could work if you choose a snake dance or other routine involving an animal, Insight can allow you to match your partner or opponent as could Perception or you might want to use Deception, Intimidation or Persuasion. Look, creatures almost always get a proficiency bonus on attacks so you should be generous here, if a quasi-reasonable case can be made, its in.



                So, now just dance out the combat.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  D&D 5e is entirely based on ability checks



                  An ability check looks like this - roll a d201, add an ability modifier and possibly a proficiency bonus2 and compare it to a target number3 - if it equals or exceeds that number you succeed, if it doesn't you fail.



                  WotC make this confusing by making a distinction without meaning between ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls.4 All of these are the exact same mechanic - the only difference is in that what success means for attack rolls and saving throws is well defined: damage is done or specific effects are mitigated/avoided respectively. While for ability checks success means - whatever the creature wanted to happen happens.



                  1 Or a number of d20s if advantage/disadvantage or other mechanics apply.



                  2 Possibly doubled or halved depending on certain features.



                  3 Which may be static or generated by a complementary process in the case of contests.



                  4To be fair, WotC is constrained by the legacy of D&D - to be D&D a game has to have certain mechanics including ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls even if these are really the same thing under the hood. Also, WotC have used the distinction to hand other effects off - some things affect ability checks but not attack rolls and saving throws etc.



                  So you want this to be a combat encounter but bypassing hit points & armor class



                  Well, I want my car to be a boat but the damn thing just won't float. So lets see if we can put a raft under this thing.



                  So combat is a series of ability checks (attacks) that, if successful, do variable damage based on the nature of the attack to a stockpile of resources based on class, level and Constitution and when that stockpile is exhausted you are out of the fight. Oh, and there are things in the game that can replenish that stockpile. This would seem to be the essence of what we have to capture.



                  So, where do we look for this stockpile? Well, hit points are "a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck." That seems to be exactly what you would be relying on if you want to win a dance contest so why don't we just use them.



                  As for the type of damage that being (figuratively) burned so that your self-esteem lies crushed and bleeding on the dance floor - sounds like Psychic to me.



                  We now need to find a substitute for AC. Now, one way of thinking about AC is that it is a passive ability check (Dexterity) used in a contest against the attack roll. So can we think of an ability that represents what you need to fend off a stunning dance move designed to crush your ego, you know, one that represents "confidence"? Yep, Charisma. So your DAC (Dance AC) is 10 + your Charisma bonus.



                  As for making the dance attack, you can impress with "raw physical force" (Strength), inspire with "agility, reflexes, and balance" (Dexterity) or beat the opponent down with your "commanding personality" (Charisma). You could even stun the opponent with your "accuracy of recall" (Intelligence) by throwing their moves back into their teeth, or amaze with how "attuned you are to the world around you" (Wisdom) by performing off the environment or simply rely on your "health, stamina, and vital force" (Constitution) to outlast your opponent. Basically , let the character's play to their strengths.



                  As for which skills will grant a proficiency bonus: Performance, Athletics and Acrobatics are obvious, Slight of Hand is a contender for some surprising moves, History can let you recall the stunning dance routines of the ancient [insert lost civilization here] while Religion lets you draw on sacred dances to the gods, Animal Handling could work if you choose a snake dance or other routine involving an animal, Insight can allow you to match your partner or opponent as could Perception or you might want to use Deception, Intimidation or Persuasion. Look, creatures almost always get a proficiency bonus on attacks so you should be generous here, if a quasi-reasonable case can be made, its in.



                  So, now just dance out the combat.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  D&D 5e is entirely based on ability checks



                  An ability check looks like this - roll a d201, add an ability modifier and possibly a proficiency bonus2 and compare it to a target number3 - if it equals or exceeds that number you succeed, if it doesn't you fail.



                  WotC make this confusing by making a distinction without meaning between ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls.4 All of these are the exact same mechanic - the only difference is in that what success means for attack rolls and saving throws is well defined: damage is done or specific effects are mitigated/avoided respectively. While for ability checks success means - whatever the creature wanted to happen happens.



                  1 Or a number of d20s if advantage/disadvantage or other mechanics apply.



                  2 Possibly doubled or halved depending on certain features.



                  3 Which may be static or generated by a complementary process in the case of contests.



                  4To be fair, WotC is constrained by the legacy of D&D - to be D&D a game has to have certain mechanics including ability checks, saving throws and attack rolls even if these are really the same thing under the hood. Also, WotC have used the distinction to hand other effects off - some things affect ability checks but not attack rolls and saving throws etc.



                  So you want this to be a combat encounter but bypassing hit points & armor class



                  Well, I want my car to be a boat but the damn thing just won't float. So lets see if we can put a raft under this thing.



                  So combat is a series of ability checks (attacks) that, if successful, do variable damage based on the nature of the attack to a stockpile of resources based on class, level and Constitution and when that stockpile is exhausted you are out of the fight. Oh, and there are things in the game that can replenish that stockpile. This would seem to be the essence of what we have to capture.



                  So, where do we look for this stockpile? Well, hit points are "a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck." That seems to be exactly what you would be relying on if you want to win a dance contest so why don't we just use them.



                  As for the type of damage that being (figuratively) burned so that your self-esteem lies crushed and bleeding on the dance floor - sounds like Psychic to me.



                  We now need to find a substitute for AC. Now, one way of thinking about AC is that it is a passive ability check (Dexterity) used in a contest against the attack roll. So can we think of an ability that represents what you need to fend off a stunning dance move designed to crush your ego, you know, one that represents "confidence"? Yep, Charisma. So your DAC (Dance AC) is 10 + your Charisma bonus.



                  As for making the dance attack, you can impress with "raw physical force" (Strength), inspire with "agility, reflexes, and balance" (Dexterity) or beat the opponent down with your "commanding personality" (Charisma). You could even stun the opponent with your "accuracy of recall" (Intelligence) by throwing their moves back into their teeth, or amaze with how "attuned you are to the world around you" (Wisdom) by performing off the environment or simply rely on your "health, stamina, and vital force" (Constitution) to outlast your opponent. Basically , let the character's play to their strengths.



                  As for which skills will grant a proficiency bonus: Performance, Athletics and Acrobatics are obvious, Slight of Hand is a contender for some surprising moves, History can let you recall the stunning dance routines of the ancient [insert lost civilization here] while Religion lets you draw on sacred dances to the gods, Animal Handling could work if you choose a snake dance or other routine involving an animal, Insight can allow you to match your partner or opponent as could Perception or you might want to use Deception, Intimidation or Persuasion. Look, creatures almost always get a proficiency bonus on attacks so you should be generous here, if a quasi-reasonable case can be made, its in.



                  So, now just dance out the combat.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 1 hour ago

























                  answered 2 hours ago









                  Dale MDale M

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