Bb13b9 confusionKnowing what chord to play next?Is there any theory to decide a set of plausible chords per measure where a whole melody of a song is given?Chord Progressions Including Majors That Should Be MinorsReplicating chord tonesWhy does most “Country” Music use mostly major and minor plain simple chords?Exhaustive list of chord (at least triad and dom7) functions for a software ear training toolWhat is the most efficient way to memorize chord changes?Is there any compendium mapping chord progressions to mood and sentiments?How to build chords from a single note?Calculating the distance of chords
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Bb13b9 confusion
Knowing what chord to play next?Is there any theory to decide a set of plausible chords per measure where a whole melody of a song is given?Chord Progressions Including Majors That Should Be MinorsReplicating chord tonesWhy does most “Country” Music use mostly major and minor plain simple chords?Exhaustive list of chord (at least triad and dom7) functions for a software ear training toolWhat is the most efficient way to memorize chord changes?Is there any compendium mapping chord progressions to mood and sentiments?How to build chords from a single note?Calculating the distance of chords
Sorry simple question but how do you avoid confusion when writing a chord like Bb13b9? It can be read as either B with a b13 and a b9 or Bb with a 13 and a b9. I suppose context but I am wondering if there is a formal way of writing these different chords for clarity?
Another confusing one is Gb13, is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?
Ps I found both examples while playing Naima. In this context it is a G melody note on a B chord so it is b13, although over a Bb pedal to add to the confusion, at least for me!
Thanks!
chords chord-theory chord-progressions
add a comment |
Sorry simple question but how do you avoid confusion when writing a chord like Bb13b9? It can be read as either B with a b13 and a b9 or Bb with a 13 and a b9. I suppose context but I am wondering if there is a formal way of writing these different chords for clarity?
Another confusing one is Gb13, is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?
Ps I found both examples while playing Naima. In this context it is a G melody note on a B chord so it is b13, although over a Bb pedal to add to the confusion, at least for me!
Thanks!
chords chord-theory chord-progressions
1
Another distinguishing factor is that if both the 9th and 13th are altered, the 9th should come before the 13th in the chord name.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Sorry simple question but how do you avoid confusion when writing a chord like Bb13b9? It can be read as either B with a b13 and a b9 or Bb with a 13 and a b9. I suppose context but I am wondering if there is a formal way of writing these different chords for clarity?
Another confusing one is Gb13, is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?
Ps I found both examples while playing Naima. In this context it is a G melody note on a B chord so it is b13, although over a Bb pedal to add to the confusion, at least for me!
Thanks!
chords chord-theory chord-progressions
Sorry simple question but how do you avoid confusion when writing a chord like Bb13b9? It can be read as either B with a b13 and a b9 or Bb with a 13 and a b9. I suppose context but I am wondering if there is a formal way of writing these different chords for clarity?
Another confusing one is Gb13, is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?
Ps I found both examples while playing Naima. In this context it is a G melody note on a B chord so it is b13, although over a Bb pedal to add to the confusion, at least for me!
Thanks!
chords chord-theory chord-progressions
chords chord-theory chord-progressions
edited 9 hours ago
Babaluma
asked 9 hours ago
BabalumaBabaluma
1327
1327
1
Another distinguishing factor is that if both the 9th and 13th are altered, the 9th should come before the 13th in the chord name.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Another distinguishing factor is that if both the 9th and 13th are altered, the 9th should come before the 13th in the chord name.
– user45266
3 hours ago
1
1
Another distinguishing factor is that if both the 9th and 13th are altered, the 9th should come before the 13th in the chord name.
– user45266
3 hours ago
Another distinguishing factor is that if both the 9th and 13th are altered, the 9th should come before the 13th in the chord name.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
To disambiguate (G♭)(13) from (G)(♭13), use superscripts: G♭13, G♭13.
Wikipedia shows examples like . Here, the flat isn't superscripted, so what it modifies is the G. Even without the flat and the M7, the sharp is superscripted, so it modifies the 5 instead of the G.
You can use the html sub and sup tags.
– Your Uncle Bob
9 hours ago
Thanks! Replaced the MathJax complaint with <sup>...</sup>.
– Camille Goudeseune
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Superscript is the ideal, but...
But these pages...
- https://bretpimentel.com/jazz-chord-symbols-a-primer-for-the-classically-trained/
- http://musictheoryprof.com/2014/05/how-to-interpret-chord-symbols/
- http://music.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/f14/music16D/dobrianchordsymbols.htm
...seem to show some kind of convention to use parentheses if for some reason superscript is not an option...
Bb + 13 => Bb(13)
Bb + b13 => Bb(b13) or just Bbb13
B + 13 => B(13) or just B13
B + b13 => B(b13)
Personally, I'm a huge fan of parentheses. They're super useful: not only do I not have to write "add" every single time, I can also make my chord symbols easier to read, like you said. They also help the reader see the extensions as seprate from the underlying chord.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Any time chord symbols are written like this, the first part is always the root. B♭9♭13 is always a 9♭13 chord built on the note B♭. If the composer wanted a B chord with a flat ninth, he/she would have made it clear, via "Badd♭9♭13" or "B(♭9♭13)". Makes sense because altered extensions must either come after some kind of natural extension (B7♭9, where the 7 separates the accidental automatically), or is notated with some kind of "add" or otherwise separated.
If there's an accidental after a note name, it modifies the root, not the following extension.
C♭9 versus C(♭9). Very different, but both are unambiguous.
Related: Most people I've met prefer altered extensions be listed from lowest to highest, e.g. A(9♯11♭13), not A(♭13♭9).
I always see e.g. (add9) when adding chord tones to chords that don't contain a 7th. I don't think I've ever seen C(9) to indicate a C(add9), and I don't think I've ever seen a C(addb9) at all. Every time I see extensions in parentheses, they are altered extensions, and they belong to a 7th chord; or at least that is how it seems....
– David Bowling
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Bb13b9 can only be one thing, but that can be made more clear by using parentheses: Bb13(b9).
It is common to put altered extensions and added notes in parentheses at the end of a chord name. Also note that altered extensions are typically written in ascending order, so an altered B7 might look like B7(b9b13), or even B7b9b13, but rarely (if ever) B7b13b9, or even B7(b13b9).
In the absence of a 7th, with unaltered extensions, you might have Bb6/9, but a triad with added altered extensions would be pretty rare.
Similarly, Gb13 can only be one thing. A G chord with an added b13 would be notated explicitly as an added tone chord: G(addb13) or G(addEb). But G(addEb) would be an uncommon chord since altered extensions are usually added to seventh chords, but not to triads. So a Gb13 is just a G13 transposed down a half-step.
But, note that Gb13 is neither of the options suggested in the OP: "is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?" A G13 is a G7 with added 9th, 11th, and 13th extensions. It is very common to omit the 9th and 11th (and possibly the 5th), but the 7th and 13th must stay. So a G13 is at least G7 with an added 13 (E), and a Gb13 is at least Gb7 with and added 13 (Eb).
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
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votes
active
oldest
votes
To disambiguate (G♭)(13) from (G)(♭13), use superscripts: G♭13, G♭13.
Wikipedia shows examples like . Here, the flat isn't superscripted, so what it modifies is the G. Even without the flat and the M7, the sharp is superscripted, so it modifies the 5 instead of the G.
You can use the html sub and sup tags.
– Your Uncle Bob
9 hours ago
Thanks! Replaced the MathJax complaint with <sup>...</sup>.
– Camille Goudeseune
9 hours ago
add a comment |
To disambiguate (G♭)(13) from (G)(♭13), use superscripts: G♭13, G♭13.
Wikipedia shows examples like . Here, the flat isn't superscripted, so what it modifies is the G. Even without the flat and the M7, the sharp is superscripted, so it modifies the 5 instead of the G.
You can use the html sub and sup tags.
– Your Uncle Bob
9 hours ago
Thanks! Replaced the MathJax complaint with <sup>...</sup>.
– Camille Goudeseune
9 hours ago
add a comment |
To disambiguate (G♭)(13) from (G)(♭13), use superscripts: G♭13, G♭13.
Wikipedia shows examples like . Here, the flat isn't superscripted, so what it modifies is the G. Even without the flat and the M7, the sharp is superscripted, so it modifies the 5 instead of the G.
To disambiguate (G♭)(13) from (G)(♭13), use superscripts: G♭13, G♭13.
Wikipedia shows examples like . Here, the flat isn't superscripted, so what it modifies is the G. Even without the flat and the M7, the sharp is superscripted, so it modifies the 5 instead of the G.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Camille GoudeseuneCamille Goudeseune
1,279815
1,279815
You can use the html sub and sup tags.
– Your Uncle Bob
9 hours ago
Thanks! Replaced the MathJax complaint with <sup>...</sup>.
– Camille Goudeseune
9 hours ago
add a comment |
You can use the html sub and sup tags.
– Your Uncle Bob
9 hours ago
Thanks! Replaced the MathJax complaint with <sup>...</sup>.
– Camille Goudeseune
9 hours ago
You can use the html sub and sup tags.
– Your Uncle Bob
9 hours ago
You can use the html sub and sup tags.
– Your Uncle Bob
9 hours ago
Thanks! Replaced the MathJax complaint with <sup>...</sup>.
– Camille Goudeseune
9 hours ago
Thanks! Replaced the MathJax complaint with <sup>...</sup>.
– Camille Goudeseune
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Superscript is the ideal, but...
But these pages...
- https://bretpimentel.com/jazz-chord-symbols-a-primer-for-the-classically-trained/
- http://musictheoryprof.com/2014/05/how-to-interpret-chord-symbols/
- http://music.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/f14/music16D/dobrianchordsymbols.htm
...seem to show some kind of convention to use parentheses if for some reason superscript is not an option...
Bb + 13 => Bb(13)
Bb + b13 => Bb(b13) or just Bbb13
B + 13 => B(13) or just B13
B + b13 => B(b13)
Personally, I'm a huge fan of parentheses. They're super useful: not only do I not have to write "add" every single time, I can also make my chord symbols easier to read, like you said. They also help the reader see the extensions as seprate from the underlying chord.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Superscript is the ideal, but...
But these pages...
- https://bretpimentel.com/jazz-chord-symbols-a-primer-for-the-classically-trained/
- http://musictheoryprof.com/2014/05/how-to-interpret-chord-symbols/
- http://music.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/f14/music16D/dobrianchordsymbols.htm
...seem to show some kind of convention to use parentheses if for some reason superscript is not an option...
Bb + 13 => Bb(13)
Bb + b13 => Bb(b13) or just Bbb13
B + 13 => B(13) or just B13
B + b13 => B(b13)
Personally, I'm a huge fan of parentheses. They're super useful: not only do I not have to write "add" every single time, I can also make my chord symbols easier to read, like you said. They also help the reader see the extensions as seprate from the underlying chord.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Superscript is the ideal, but...
But these pages...
- https://bretpimentel.com/jazz-chord-symbols-a-primer-for-the-classically-trained/
- http://musictheoryprof.com/2014/05/how-to-interpret-chord-symbols/
- http://music.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/f14/music16D/dobrianchordsymbols.htm
...seem to show some kind of convention to use parentheses if for some reason superscript is not an option...
Bb + 13 => Bb(13)
Bb + b13 => Bb(b13) or just Bbb13
B + 13 => B(13) or just B13
B + b13 => B(b13)
Superscript is the ideal, but...
But these pages...
- https://bretpimentel.com/jazz-chord-symbols-a-primer-for-the-classically-trained/
- http://musictheoryprof.com/2014/05/how-to-interpret-chord-symbols/
- http://music.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/f14/music16D/dobrianchordsymbols.htm
...seem to show some kind of convention to use parentheses if for some reason superscript is not an option...
Bb + 13 => Bb(13)
Bb + b13 => Bb(b13) or just Bbb13
B + 13 => B(13) or just B13
B + b13 => B(b13)
answered 9 hours ago
Michael CurtisMichael Curtis
14.5k1051
14.5k1051
Personally, I'm a huge fan of parentheses. They're super useful: not only do I not have to write "add" every single time, I can also make my chord symbols easier to read, like you said. They also help the reader see the extensions as seprate from the underlying chord.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Personally, I'm a huge fan of parentheses. They're super useful: not only do I not have to write "add" every single time, I can also make my chord symbols easier to read, like you said. They also help the reader see the extensions as seprate from the underlying chord.
– user45266
3 hours ago
Personally, I'm a huge fan of parentheses. They're super useful: not only do I not have to write "add" every single time, I can also make my chord symbols easier to read, like you said. They also help the reader see the extensions as seprate from the underlying chord.
– user45266
3 hours ago
Personally, I'm a huge fan of parentheses. They're super useful: not only do I not have to write "add" every single time, I can also make my chord symbols easier to read, like you said. They also help the reader see the extensions as seprate from the underlying chord.
– user45266
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Any time chord symbols are written like this, the first part is always the root. B♭9♭13 is always a 9♭13 chord built on the note B♭. If the composer wanted a B chord with a flat ninth, he/she would have made it clear, via "Badd♭9♭13" or "B(♭9♭13)". Makes sense because altered extensions must either come after some kind of natural extension (B7♭9, where the 7 separates the accidental automatically), or is notated with some kind of "add" or otherwise separated.
If there's an accidental after a note name, it modifies the root, not the following extension.
C♭9 versus C(♭9). Very different, but both are unambiguous.
Related: Most people I've met prefer altered extensions be listed from lowest to highest, e.g. A(9♯11♭13), not A(♭13♭9).
I always see e.g. (add9) when adding chord tones to chords that don't contain a 7th. I don't think I've ever seen C(9) to indicate a C(add9), and I don't think I've ever seen a C(addb9) at all. Every time I see extensions in parentheses, they are altered extensions, and they belong to a 7th chord; or at least that is how it seems....
– David Bowling
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Any time chord symbols are written like this, the first part is always the root. B♭9♭13 is always a 9♭13 chord built on the note B♭. If the composer wanted a B chord with a flat ninth, he/she would have made it clear, via "Badd♭9♭13" or "B(♭9♭13)". Makes sense because altered extensions must either come after some kind of natural extension (B7♭9, where the 7 separates the accidental automatically), or is notated with some kind of "add" or otherwise separated.
If there's an accidental after a note name, it modifies the root, not the following extension.
C♭9 versus C(♭9). Very different, but both are unambiguous.
Related: Most people I've met prefer altered extensions be listed from lowest to highest, e.g. A(9♯11♭13), not A(♭13♭9).
I always see e.g. (add9) when adding chord tones to chords that don't contain a 7th. I don't think I've ever seen C(9) to indicate a C(add9), and I don't think I've ever seen a C(addb9) at all. Every time I see extensions in parentheses, they are altered extensions, and they belong to a 7th chord; or at least that is how it seems....
– David Bowling
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Any time chord symbols are written like this, the first part is always the root. B♭9♭13 is always a 9♭13 chord built on the note B♭. If the composer wanted a B chord with a flat ninth, he/she would have made it clear, via "Badd♭9♭13" or "B(♭9♭13)". Makes sense because altered extensions must either come after some kind of natural extension (B7♭9, where the 7 separates the accidental automatically), or is notated with some kind of "add" or otherwise separated.
If there's an accidental after a note name, it modifies the root, not the following extension.
C♭9 versus C(♭9). Very different, but both are unambiguous.
Related: Most people I've met prefer altered extensions be listed from lowest to highest, e.g. A(9♯11♭13), not A(♭13♭9).
Any time chord symbols are written like this, the first part is always the root. B♭9♭13 is always a 9♭13 chord built on the note B♭. If the composer wanted a B chord with a flat ninth, he/she would have made it clear, via "Badd♭9♭13" or "B(♭9♭13)". Makes sense because altered extensions must either come after some kind of natural extension (B7♭9, where the 7 separates the accidental automatically), or is notated with some kind of "add" or otherwise separated.
If there's an accidental after a note name, it modifies the root, not the following extension.
C♭9 versus C(♭9). Very different, but both are unambiguous.
Related: Most people I've met prefer altered extensions be listed from lowest to highest, e.g. A(9♯11♭13), not A(♭13♭9).
edited 3 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
user45266user45266
5,71511042
5,71511042
I always see e.g. (add9) when adding chord tones to chords that don't contain a 7th. I don't think I've ever seen C(9) to indicate a C(add9), and I don't think I've ever seen a C(addb9) at all. Every time I see extensions in parentheses, they are altered extensions, and they belong to a 7th chord; or at least that is how it seems....
– David Bowling
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I always see e.g. (add9) when adding chord tones to chords that don't contain a 7th. I don't think I've ever seen C(9) to indicate a C(add9), and I don't think I've ever seen a C(addb9) at all. Every time I see extensions in parentheses, they are altered extensions, and they belong to a 7th chord; or at least that is how it seems....
– David Bowling
2 hours ago
I always see e.g. (add9) when adding chord tones to chords that don't contain a 7th. I don't think I've ever seen C(9) to indicate a C(add9), and I don't think I've ever seen a C(addb9) at all. Every time I see extensions in parentheses, they are altered extensions, and they belong to a 7th chord; or at least that is how it seems....
– David Bowling
2 hours ago
I always see e.g. (add9) when adding chord tones to chords that don't contain a 7th. I don't think I've ever seen C(9) to indicate a C(add9), and I don't think I've ever seen a C(addb9) at all. Every time I see extensions in parentheses, they are altered extensions, and they belong to a 7th chord; or at least that is how it seems....
– David Bowling
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Bb13b9 can only be one thing, but that can be made more clear by using parentheses: Bb13(b9).
It is common to put altered extensions and added notes in parentheses at the end of a chord name. Also note that altered extensions are typically written in ascending order, so an altered B7 might look like B7(b9b13), or even B7b9b13, but rarely (if ever) B7b13b9, or even B7(b13b9).
In the absence of a 7th, with unaltered extensions, you might have Bb6/9, but a triad with added altered extensions would be pretty rare.
Similarly, Gb13 can only be one thing. A G chord with an added b13 would be notated explicitly as an added tone chord: G(addb13) or G(addEb). But G(addEb) would be an uncommon chord since altered extensions are usually added to seventh chords, but not to triads. So a Gb13 is just a G13 transposed down a half-step.
But, note that Gb13 is neither of the options suggested in the OP: "is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?" A G13 is a G7 with added 9th, 11th, and 13th extensions. It is very common to omit the 9th and 11th (and possibly the 5th), but the 7th and 13th must stay. So a G13 is at least G7 with an added 13 (E), and a Gb13 is at least Gb7 with and added 13 (Eb).
add a comment |
Bb13b9 can only be one thing, but that can be made more clear by using parentheses: Bb13(b9).
It is common to put altered extensions and added notes in parentheses at the end of a chord name. Also note that altered extensions are typically written in ascending order, so an altered B7 might look like B7(b9b13), or even B7b9b13, but rarely (if ever) B7b13b9, or even B7(b13b9).
In the absence of a 7th, with unaltered extensions, you might have Bb6/9, but a triad with added altered extensions would be pretty rare.
Similarly, Gb13 can only be one thing. A G chord with an added b13 would be notated explicitly as an added tone chord: G(addb13) or G(addEb). But G(addEb) would be an uncommon chord since altered extensions are usually added to seventh chords, but not to triads. So a Gb13 is just a G13 transposed down a half-step.
But, note that Gb13 is neither of the options suggested in the OP: "is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?" A G13 is a G7 with added 9th, 11th, and 13th extensions. It is very common to omit the 9th and 11th (and possibly the 5th), but the 7th and 13th must stay. So a G13 is at least G7 with an added 13 (E), and a Gb13 is at least Gb7 with and added 13 (Eb).
add a comment |
Bb13b9 can only be one thing, but that can be made more clear by using parentheses: Bb13(b9).
It is common to put altered extensions and added notes in parentheses at the end of a chord name. Also note that altered extensions are typically written in ascending order, so an altered B7 might look like B7(b9b13), or even B7b9b13, but rarely (if ever) B7b13b9, or even B7(b13b9).
In the absence of a 7th, with unaltered extensions, you might have Bb6/9, but a triad with added altered extensions would be pretty rare.
Similarly, Gb13 can only be one thing. A G chord with an added b13 would be notated explicitly as an added tone chord: G(addb13) or G(addEb). But G(addEb) would be an uncommon chord since altered extensions are usually added to seventh chords, but not to triads. So a Gb13 is just a G13 transposed down a half-step.
But, note that Gb13 is neither of the options suggested in the OP: "is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?" A G13 is a G7 with added 9th, 11th, and 13th extensions. It is very common to omit the 9th and 11th (and possibly the 5th), but the 7th and 13th must stay. So a G13 is at least G7 with an added 13 (E), and a Gb13 is at least Gb7 with and added 13 (Eb).
Bb13b9 can only be one thing, but that can be made more clear by using parentheses: Bb13(b9).
It is common to put altered extensions and added notes in parentheses at the end of a chord name. Also note that altered extensions are typically written in ascending order, so an altered B7 might look like B7(b9b13), or even B7b9b13, but rarely (if ever) B7b13b9, or even B7(b13b9).
In the absence of a 7th, with unaltered extensions, you might have Bb6/9, but a triad with added altered extensions would be pretty rare.
Similarly, Gb13 can only be one thing. A G chord with an added b13 would be notated explicitly as an added tone chord: G(addb13) or G(addEb). But G(addEb) would be an uncommon chord since altered extensions are usually added to seventh chords, but not to triads. So a Gb13 is just a G13 transposed down a half-step.
But, note that Gb13 is neither of the options suggested in the OP: "is it a Gb with a 13 or a G with a b13?" A G13 is a G7 with added 9th, 11th, and 13th extensions. It is very common to omit the 9th and 11th (and possibly the 5th), but the 7th and 13th must stay. So a G13 is at least G7 with an added 13 (E), and a Gb13 is at least Gb7 with and added 13 (Eb).
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
David BowlingDavid Bowling
5,29821438
5,29821438
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Another distinguishing factor is that if both the 9th and 13th are altered, the 9th should come before the 13th in the chord name.
– user45266
3 hours ago