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Should the party get XP for a monster they never attacked?
My party bypassed a combat encounter. Should they still get XP?Gaining XP for failuresHow should I divide Party Monster XP witha 2nd lvl fighter and a 6th lvl fighter in the partyMy party bypassed a combat encounter. Should they still get XP?Do people get XP for battles they weren't in?Should a PC get XP for assisting outside of combat?How sould I handle NPC's betraying or lying to the party?How is the contradiction in this NPC's backstory in Curse of Strahd resolved?How to build a level appropriate adaptation of existing itemsHow can I make the final boss of the LMOP a memorable and exciting fight for my group?How do I keep a published adventure playthrough “on rails” without removing player agency?
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$begingroup$
Attempting to keep things vague to avoid possible spoilers for Dragon Heist
During the first session, after the barfight, a couple monsters crawl out of the hole in the middle of the tavern, one big scary dude and three bugs. The 'Big Scary Dude' would be worth a ton of XP if killed by the players, but there are two caveats
1) It is at half health when introduced
2) The players are told in no uncertain terms to focus on the little bugs while an NPC takes care of it.
Before the players even have a chance at him, the NPC goes before them in the Initiative and outright kills the big scary dude with a four hit combo on his turn. The big dude goes down literally before they even have a chance to react.
Just the other day, one of my players was asking me if they should have gotten experience for being apart of that battle with the big dude. If they did, they would be undeniably level 2 for the rest of the first chapter, but my thoughts are that they did not actually do anything in that fight and therefore should not get the XP. Am I in the wrong for denying them the XP? Or am I in the right for maintaining continuity?
dnd-5e experience-points waterdeep-dragon-heist
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Attempting to keep things vague to avoid possible spoilers for Dragon Heist
During the first session, after the barfight, a couple monsters crawl out of the hole in the middle of the tavern, one big scary dude and three bugs. The 'Big Scary Dude' would be worth a ton of XP if killed by the players, but there are two caveats
1) It is at half health when introduced
2) The players are told in no uncertain terms to focus on the little bugs while an NPC takes care of it.
Before the players even have a chance at him, the NPC goes before them in the Initiative and outright kills the big scary dude with a four hit combo on his turn. The big dude goes down literally before they even have a chance to react.
Just the other day, one of my players was asking me if they should have gotten experience for being apart of that battle with the big dude. If they did, they would be undeniably level 2 for the rest of the first chapter, but my thoughts are that they did not actually do anything in that fight and therefore should not get the XP. Am I in the wrong for denying them the XP? Or am I in the right for maintaining continuity?
dnd-5e experience-points waterdeep-dragon-heist
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73722/…
$endgroup$
– ZwiQ
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I'd suggest using spoiler tags in your question to cover details that people might consider spoilers. You can do this by using >! prior to a block of text. This way you can have a more complete question, without answerers needing to guess at which sections you are addressing.
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
How many players are in your party?
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Attempting to keep things vague to avoid possible spoilers for Dragon Heist
During the first session, after the barfight, a couple monsters crawl out of the hole in the middle of the tavern, one big scary dude and three bugs. The 'Big Scary Dude' would be worth a ton of XP if killed by the players, but there are two caveats
1) It is at half health when introduced
2) The players are told in no uncertain terms to focus on the little bugs while an NPC takes care of it.
Before the players even have a chance at him, the NPC goes before them in the Initiative and outright kills the big scary dude with a four hit combo on his turn. The big dude goes down literally before they even have a chance to react.
Just the other day, one of my players was asking me if they should have gotten experience for being apart of that battle with the big dude. If they did, they would be undeniably level 2 for the rest of the first chapter, but my thoughts are that they did not actually do anything in that fight and therefore should not get the XP. Am I in the wrong for denying them the XP? Or am I in the right for maintaining continuity?
dnd-5e experience-points waterdeep-dragon-heist
$endgroup$
Attempting to keep things vague to avoid possible spoilers for Dragon Heist
During the first session, after the barfight, a couple monsters crawl out of the hole in the middle of the tavern, one big scary dude and three bugs. The 'Big Scary Dude' would be worth a ton of XP if killed by the players, but there are two caveats
1) It is at half health when introduced
2) The players are told in no uncertain terms to focus on the little bugs while an NPC takes care of it.
Before the players even have a chance at him, the NPC goes before them in the Initiative and outright kills the big scary dude with a four hit combo on his turn. The big dude goes down literally before they even have a chance to react.
Just the other day, one of my players was asking me if they should have gotten experience for being apart of that battle with the big dude. If they did, they would be undeniably level 2 for the rest of the first chapter, but my thoughts are that they did not actually do anything in that fight and therefore should not get the XP. Am I in the wrong for denying them the XP? Or am I in the right for maintaining continuity?
dnd-5e experience-points waterdeep-dragon-heist
dnd-5e experience-points waterdeep-dragon-heist
asked 9 hours ago
PyroTornadoPyroTornado
18217
18217
2
$begingroup$
Related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73722/…
$endgroup$
– ZwiQ
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I'd suggest using spoiler tags in your question to cover details that people might consider spoilers. You can do this by using >! prior to a block of text. This way you can have a more complete question, without answerers needing to guess at which sections you are addressing.
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
How many players are in your party?
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73722/…
$endgroup$
– ZwiQ
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I'd suggest using spoiler tags in your question to cover details that people might consider spoilers. You can do this by using >! prior to a block of text. This way you can have a more complete question, without answerers needing to guess at which sections you are addressing.
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
How many players are in your party?
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73722/…
$endgroup$
– ZwiQ
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73722/…
$endgroup$
– ZwiQ
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
I'd suggest using spoiler tags in your question to cover details that people might consider spoilers. You can do this by using >! prior to a block of text. This way you can have a more complete question, without answerers needing to guess at which sections you are addressing.
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd suggest using spoiler tags in your question to cover details that people might consider spoilers. You can do this by using >! prior to a block of text. This way you can have a more complete question, without answerers needing to guess at which sections you are addressing.
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
How many players are in your party?
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
How many players are in your party?
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I personally feel Dragon Heist isn't optimized for using experience
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist seems to be designed with the milestone level system in mind, and it accordingly gives out roughly one level per chapter. If you've decided that players get experience for killing monsters, instead of levels for completing chapters, then you've already set yourself up for more problems down the road, because Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough combat encounters to get you to the required level for the later parts and you'll be forced to improvise extra experience for social encounters and traps.
So as far as the reasoning is concerned, no, they get no exp for it, because they never get exp for anything, they get a level when they complete a milestone.
But I've already decided to use experience!
Even then, they still shouldn't really get any experience for the big monster, because they weren't involved in fighting it. The NPC was in a fight with the giant monster, they were in a fight with the small things around him. Nothing they did contributed in any way to the fight with the big monster, and nothing the NPC did contributed to the fight with the little monsters.
For all intents and purposes, they were two separate encounters, and one of the encounters did not involve the players, they were essentially bystanders. If your player insists that they deserve experience because they were also there for the encounter, then logically speaking all other NPCs in the tavern were also there and should also share in the experience.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Dragon Heist does use experience. It explicitly gives you the option of tracking XP or doing milestone levelling in the first sentence of the Character Advancement section. It even gives you examples of how you would award XP for roleplaying well, avoiding traps and completing goals.
$endgroup$
– illustro
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
While there may not be enough combat encounters in Dragon Heist to add up to the appropriate experience levels, additional things like avoiding traps, successfully navigating a tricky political/social situation, accomplishing goals, and good RP are all perfectly viable ways for PCs to earn XP
$endgroup$
– G. Moylan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Added extra reasoning for the people who want to use the module with XP tracking despite it fairly obviously not being made for it to still not reward them for experience from the fight.
$endgroup$
– Theik
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Thiek, the module functions perfectly well running it with XP. I ran the entire module using XP as the basis for it and the PCs got to the correct levels at the correct time. I used the guidance in the module to award XP for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters in the way suggested in the Character Advancement section.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough encounters to get you to the required level". This statement is incorrect. It does not have enough combat encounters to get the PCs to the required level, it does however, have enough encounters in total for the PCs to get to the next level as there is significantly more emphasis put in the module on social and exploratory encounters than in other modules.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Yes they should get XP for the encounter, but it should be divided between the NPC + Party
Dragon Heist gives you the option of either using XP based advancement, or using milestone advancement. If you choose to use XP based advancement (which you clearly have) then you should be dividing out XP for the encounter as a whole.
Based on your description I believe the encounter in question is the
Troll and 3 stirges
While your party did not actually fight the
Troll
due to lack of opportunity they did participate in the encounter. In particular they stopped
3 stirges from dogpiling on Durnan while Durnan fought the Troll.
Similarly,
Durnan
prevented the PCs from being attacked by the
Troll
Finally the module expects the PCs to be thanked by
Durnan
for their help in the encounter, and stabilised if they have been reduced to 0 HP.
One thing to remember is that the
Troll regenerates back if it isn't hit by fire when it's at 0 HP. Durnan has no way (as written) to deal that fire damage, so he needs help from somewhere to actually deal the fire damage. The module mentions Durnan dousing the Troll in lamp oil, but that should have at least taken one of his 4 attacks. If you allowed Durnan to throw the lamp oil and make four attacks then you changed the action economy of the fight.
As you mention, the
Troll
is at half it's hitpoints when the encounter starts. This does (technically) reduce it's defensive challenge rating, which will then have a knock on effect on it's overall challenge rating. I have the calculations for this at home and will dig them out (later). This does add additional complications to the calculation though.
You always have the option of not dealing with this complication, and just awarding the normal XP for the monster.
If we use the normal XP for a full health monster, the total XP for the encounter is:
1800 + 3 * 25 = 1875
If we assume you are playing with 4 party members then the encounter XP should be divided by 5 to get the per player XP.
The would mean each player should be awarded
375 XP for the encounter
If you don't include the
Troll
And treat them as two separate encounters, then they would get
18 XP each. (75/4 = 18.75 which is rounded down to 18)
But, they didn't actually hit it?!!
Lets take this argument to the extreme. If you have an encounter setup for your party which has 50 goblins walk around a corner. Your party has a Sorcerer (or a Wizard) with fireball, who happens to roll high enough in initiative that they go before everything else in the encounter (both goblins and other PCs).
The Sorcerer seizes the moment and casts Fireball, incinerating all 50 goblins.
Should the other PCs in your party get an XP share? or should it all go to the Sorcerer?
To put it another way, if your party has an especially low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter (the rest of your party are efficient at their monster murdering). Should that low Dex PC be excluded from the XP calculation?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter can actually participate as a support character. Tank, healer etc. These roles still deserve XP in my opinion.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot I'm talking about a situation where the encounter is over by the time it would be the low Dex PCs turn, and they were in no danger from the encounter (due to how the turn order for the particular instance of the encounter turned out. (In any case I agree that the PC in question should be getting XP).
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
That situation is analogous to the one from Dragon Heist described by the OP. Had the NPC not felled the monster in a single turn, the PCs would most definitely have been in danger and under threat from the monster, and could have participated in the dispatching of it, and should get XP as a result.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. You get XP for overcoming threats, not for letting someone else do it.
Basic Rules:
As your character goes on adventures and overcomes challenges, he or she gains experience, represented by experience points.
The scenario supplied them with an NPC whose job is to fight the monster and keep it away from the PCs. The NPC did his job, thus preventing the party from ever having to engage with the monster at all. They were, as Buffy the Vampire Slayer would have put it, "fray-adjacent".
If Godzilla is going to eat your peaceful village, and a hero goes and drives Godzilla away, what you did was get rescued. You don't get a share of the XP for that. Your reward is to not get eaten.
The typical D&D party is very often in the position of the hero here: being invited or contracted to deal with someone else's problems. When the Lord of Castle Aaaargh hires you to slay a dragon for him, does he get XP for that? No! Even though, if you had failed, he might well have had to put on his armor and go out there himself. Because that's not what happened. He outsourced the job, so he outsourced the glory.
If you want to advance to hero status, you have to step up to Godzilla in some way. You don't have to kill him, or even fight him. You could decoy him away from the town, or dig a giant trench to stop him. But you have to act.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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active
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$begingroup$
I personally feel Dragon Heist isn't optimized for using experience
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist seems to be designed with the milestone level system in mind, and it accordingly gives out roughly one level per chapter. If you've decided that players get experience for killing monsters, instead of levels for completing chapters, then you've already set yourself up for more problems down the road, because Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough combat encounters to get you to the required level for the later parts and you'll be forced to improvise extra experience for social encounters and traps.
So as far as the reasoning is concerned, no, they get no exp for it, because they never get exp for anything, they get a level when they complete a milestone.
But I've already decided to use experience!
Even then, they still shouldn't really get any experience for the big monster, because they weren't involved in fighting it. The NPC was in a fight with the giant monster, they were in a fight with the small things around him. Nothing they did contributed in any way to the fight with the big monster, and nothing the NPC did contributed to the fight with the little monsters.
For all intents and purposes, they were two separate encounters, and one of the encounters did not involve the players, they were essentially bystanders. If your player insists that they deserve experience because they were also there for the encounter, then logically speaking all other NPCs in the tavern were also there and should also share in the experience.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Dragon Heist does use experience. It explicitly gives you the option of tracking XP or doing milestone levelling in the first sentence of the Character Advancement section. It even gives you examples of how you would award XP for roleplaying well, avoiding traps and completing goals.
$endgroup$
– illustro
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
While there may not be enough combat encounters in Dragon Heist to add up to the appropriate experience levels, additional things like avoiding traps, successfully navigating a tricky political/social situation, accomplishing goals, and good RP are all perfectly viable ways for PCs to earn XP
$endgroup$
– G. Moylan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Added extra reasoning for the people who want to use the module with XP tracking despite it fairly obviously not being made for it to still not reward them for experience from the fight.
$endgroup$
– Theik
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Thiek, the module functions perfectly well running it with XP. I ran the entire module using XP as the basis for it and the PCs got to the correct levels at the correct time. I used the guidance in the module to award XP for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters in the way suggested in the Character Advancement section.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough encounters to get you to the required level". This statement is incorrect. It does not have enough combat encounters to get the PCs to the required level, it does however, have enough encounters in total for the PCs to get to the next level as there is significantly more emphasis put in the module on social and exploratory encounters than in other modules.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I personally feel Dragon Heist isn't optimized for using experience
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist seems to be designed with the milestone level system in mind, and it accordingly gives out roughly one level per chapter. If you've decided that players get experience for killing monsters, instead of levels for completing chapters, then you've already set yourself up for more problems down the road, because Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough combat encounters to get you to the required level for the later parts and you'll be forced to improvise extra experience for social encounters and traps.
So as far as the reasoning is concerned, no, they get no exp for it, because they never get exp for anything, they get a level when they complete a milestone.
But I've already decided to use experience!
Even then, they still shouldn't really get any experience for the big monster, because they weren't involved in fighting it. The NPC was in a fight with the giant monster, they were in a fight with the small things around him. Nothing they did contributed in any way to the fight with the big monster, and nothing the NPC did contributed to the fight with the little monsters.
For all intents and purposes, they were two separate encounters, and one of the encounters did not involve the players, they were essentially bystanders. If your player insists that they deserve experience because they were also there for the encounter, then logically speaking all other NPCs in the tavern were also there and should also share in the experience.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Dragon Heist does use experience. It explicitly gives you the option of tracking XP or doing milestone levelling in the first sentence of the Character Advancement section. It even gives you examples of how you would award XP for roleplaying well, avoiding traps and completing goals.
$endgroup$
– illustro
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
While there may not be enough combat encounters in Dragon Heist to add up to the appropriate experience levels, additional things like avoiding traps, successfully navigating a tricky political/social situation, accomplishing goals, and good RP are all perfectly viable ways for PCs to earn XP
$endgroup$
– G. Moylan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Added extra reasoning for the people who want to use the module with XP tracking despite it fairly obviously not being made for it to still not reward them for experience from the fight.
$endgroup$
– Theik
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Thiek, the module functions perfectly well running it with XP. I ran the entire module using XP as the basis for it and the PCs got to the correct levels at the correct time. I used the guidance in the module to award XP for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters in the way suggested in the Character Advancement section.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough encounters to get you to the required level". This statement is incorrect. It does not have enough combat encounters to get the PCs to the required level, it does however, have enough encounters in total for the PCs to get to the next level as there is significantly more emphasis put in the module on social and exploratory encounters than in other modules.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I personally feel Dragon Heist isn't optimized for using experience
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist seems to be designed with the milestone level system in mind, and it accordingly gives out roughly one level per chapter. If you've decided that players get experience for killing monsters, instead of levels for completing chapters, then you've already set yourself up for more problems down the road, because Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough combat encounters to get you to the required level for the later parts and you'll be forced to improvise extra experience for social encounters and traps.
So as far as the reasoning is concerned, no, they get no exp for it, because they never get exp for anything, they get a level when they complete a milestone.
But I've already decided to use experience!
Even then, they still shouldn't really get any experience for the big monster, because they weren't involved in fighting it. The NPC was in a fight with the giant monster, they were in a fight with the small things around him. Nothing they did contributed in any way to the fight with the big monster, and nothing the NPC did contributed to the fight with the little monsters.
For all intents and purposes, they were two separate encounters, and one of the encounters did not involve the players, they were essentially bystanders. If your player insists that they deserve experience because they were also there for the encounter, then logically speaking all other NPCs in the tavern were also there and should also share in the experience.
$endgroup$
I personally feel Dragon Heist isn't optimized for using experience
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist seems to be designed with the milestone level system in mind, and it accordingly gives out roughly one level per chapter. If you've decided that players get experience for killing monsters, instead of levels for completing chapters, then you've already set yourself up for more problems down the road, because Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough combat encounters to get you to the required level for the later parts and you'll be forced to improvise extra experience for social encounters and traps.
So as far as the reasoning is concerned, no, they get no exp for it, because they never get exp for anything, they get a level when they complete a milestone.
But I've already decided to use experience!
Even then, they still shouldn't really get any experience for the big monster, because they weren't involved in fighting it. The NPC was in a fight with the giant monster, they were in a fight with the small things around him. Nothing they did contributed in any way to the fight with the big monster, and nothing the NPC did contributed to the fight with the little monsters.
For all intents and purposes, they were two separate encounters, and one of the encounters did not involve the players, they were essentially bystanders. If your player insists that they deserve experience because they were also there for the encounter, then logically speaking all other NPCs in the tavern were also there and should also share in the experience.
edited 7 hours ago
G. Moylan
2,003729
2,003729
answered 9 hours ago
TheikTheik
16k6990
16k6990
3
$begingroup$
Dragon Heist does use experience. It explicitly gives you the option of tracking XP or doing milestone levelling in the first sentence of the Character Advancement section. It even gives you examples of how you would award XP for roleplaying well, avoiding traps and completing goals.
$endgroup$
– illustro
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
While there may not be enough combat encounters in Dragon Heist to add up to the appropriate experience levels, additional things like avoiding traps, successfully navigating a tricky political/social situation, accomplishing goals, and good RP are all perfectly viable ways for PCs to earn XP
$endgroup$
– G. Moylan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Added extra reasoning for the people who want to use the module with XP tracking despite it fairly obviously not being made for it to still not reward them for experience from the fight.
$endgroup$
– Theik
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Thiek, the module functions perfectly well running it with XP. I ran the entire module using XP as the basis for it and the PCs got to the correct levels at the correct time. I used the guidance in the module to award XP for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters in the way suggested in the Character Advancement section.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough encounters to get you to the required level". This statement is incorrect. It does not have enough combat encounters to get the PCs to the required level, it does however, have enough encounters in total for the PCs to get to the next level as there is significantly more emphasis put in the module on social and exploratory encounters than in other modules.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
3
$begingroup$
Dragon Heist does use experience. It explicitly gives you the option of tracking XP or doing milestone levelling in the first sentence of the Character Advancement section. It even gives you examples of how you would award XP for roleplaying well, avoiding traps and completing goals.
$endgroup$
– illustro
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
While there may not be enough combat encounters in Dragon Heist to add up to the appropriate experience levels, additional things like avoiding traps, successfully navigating a tricky political/social situation, accomplishing goals, and good RP are all perfectly viable ways for PCs to earn XP
$endgroup$
– G. Moylan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Added extra reasoning for the people who want to use the module with XP tracking despite it fairly obviously not being made for it to still not reward them for experience from the fight.
$endgroup$
– Theik
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Thiek, the module functions perfectly well running it with XP. I ran the entire module using XP as the basis for it and the PCs got to the correct levels at the correct time. I used the guidance in the module to award XP for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters in the way suggested in the Character Advancement section.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough encounters to get you to the required level". This statement is incorrect. It does not have enough combat encounters to get the PCs to the required level, it does however, have enough encounters in total for the PCs to get to the next level as there is significantly more emphasis put in the module on social and exploratory encounters than in other modules.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Dragon Heist does use experience. It explicitly gives you the option of tracking XP or doing milestone levelling in the first sentence of the Character Advancement section. It even gives you examples of how you would award XP for roleplaying well, avoiding traps and completing goals.
$endgroup$
– illustro
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Dragon Heist does use experience. It explicitly gives you the option of tracking XP or doing milestone levelling in the first sentence of the Character Advancement section. It even gives you examples of how you would award XP for roleplaying well, avoiding traps and completing goals.
$endgroup$
– illustro
9 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
While there may not be enough combat encounters in Dragon Heist to add up to the appropriate experience levels, additional things like avoiding traps, successfully navigating a tricky political/social situation, accomplishing goals, and good RP are all perfectly viable ways for PCs to earn XP
$endgroup$
– G. Moylan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
While there may not be enough combat encounters in Dragon Heist to add up to the appropriate experience levels, additional things like avoiding traps, successfully navigating a tricky political/social situation, accomplishing goals, and good RP are all perfectly viable ways for PCs to earn XP
$endgroup$
– G. Moylan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Added extra reasoning for the people who want to use the module with XP tracking despite it fairly obviously not being made for it to still not reward them for experience from the fight.
$endgroup$
– Theik
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Added extra reasoning for the people who want to use the module with XP tracking despite it fairly obviously not being made for it to still not reward them for experience from the fight.
$endgroup$
– Theik
8 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Thiek, the module functions perfectly well running it with XP. I ran the entire module using XP as the basis for it and the PCs got to the correct levels at the correct time. I used the guidance in the module to award XP for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters in the way suggested in the Character Advancement section.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thiek, the module functions perfectly well running it with XP. I ran the entire module using XP as the basis for it and the PCs got to the correct levels at the correct time. I used the guidance in the module to award XP for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters in the way suggested in the Character Advancement section.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough encounters to get you to the required level". This statement is incorrect. It does not have enough combat encounters to get the PCs to the required level, it does however, have enough encounters in total for the PCs to get to the next level as there is significantly more emphasis put in the module on social and exploratory encounters than in other modules.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Dragon Heist does not have nearly enough encounters to get you to the required level". This statement is incorrect. It does not have enough combat encounters to get the PCs to the required level, it does however, have enough encounters in total for the PCs to get to the next level as there is significantly more emphasis put in the module on social and exploratory encounters than in other modules.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Yes they should get XP for the encounter, but it should be divided between the NPC + Party
Dragon Heist gives you the option of either using XP based advancement, or using milestone advancement. If you choose to use XP based advancement (which you clearly have) then you should be dividing out XP for the encounter as a whole.
Based on your description I believe the encounter in question is the
Troll and 3 stirges
While your party did not actually fight the
Troll
due to lack of opportunity they did participate in the encounter. In particular they stopped
3 stirges from dogpiling on Durnan while Durnan fought the Troll.
Similarly,
Durnan
prevented the PCs from being attacked by the
Troll
Finally the module expects the PCs to be thanked by
Durnan
for their help in the encounter, and stabilised if they have been reduced to 0 HP.
One thing to remember is that the
Troll regenerates back if it isn't hit by fire when it's at 0 HP. Durnan has no way (as written) to deal that fire damage, so he needs help from somewhere to actually deal the fire damage. The module mentions Durnan dousing the Troll in lamp oil, but that should have at least taken one of his 4 attacks. If you allowed Durnan to throw the lamp oil and make four attacks then you changed the action economy of the fight.
As you mention, the
Troll
is at half it's hitpoints when the encounter starts. This does (technically) reduce it's defensive challenge rating, which will then have a knock on effect on it's overall challenge rating. I have the calculations for this at home and will dig them out (later). This does add additional complications to the calculation though.
You always have the option of not dealing with this complication, and just awarding the normal XP for the monster.
If we use the normal XP for a full health monster, the total XP for the encounter is:
1800 + 3 * 25 = 1875
If we assume you are playing with 4 party members then the encounter XP should be divided by 5 to get the per player XP.
The would mean each player should be awarded
375 XP for the encounter
If you don't include the
Troll
And treat them as two separate encounters, then they would get
18 XP each. (75/4 = 18.75 which is rounded down to 18)
But, they didn't actually hit it?!!
Lets take this argument to the extreme. If you have an encounter setup for your party which has 50 goblins walk around a corner. Your party has a Sorcerer (or a Wizard) with fireball, who happens to roll high enough in initiative that they go before everything else in the encounter (both goblins and other PCs).
The Sorcerer seizes the moment and casts Fireball, incinerating all 50 goblins.
Should the other PCs in your party get an XP share? or should it all go to the Sorcerer?
To put it another way, if your party has an especially low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter (the rest of your party are efficient at their monster murdering). Should that low Dex PC be excluded from the XP calculation?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter can actually participate as a support character. Tank, healer etc. These roles still deserve XP in my opinion.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot I'm talking about a situation where the encounter is over by the time it would be the low Dex PCs turn, and they were in no danger from the encounter (due to how the turn order for the particular instance of the encounter turned out. (In any case I agree that the PC in question should be getting XP).
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
That situation is analogous to the one from Dragon Heist described by the OP. Had the NPC not felled the monster in a single turn, the PCs would most definitely have been in danger and under threat from the monster, and could have participated in the dispatching of it, and should get XP as a result.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes they should get XP for the encounter, but it should be divided between the NPC + Party
Dragon Heist gives you the option of either using XP based advancement, or using milestone advancement. If you choose to use XP based advancement (which you clearly have) then you should be dividing out XP for the encounter as a whole.
Based on your description I believe the encounter in question is the
Troll and 3 stirges
While your party did not actually fight the
Troll
due to lack of opportunity they did participate in the encounter. In particular they stopped
3 stirges from dogpiling on Durnan while Durnan fought the Troll.
Similarly,
Durnan
prevented the PCs from being attacked by the
Troll
Finally the module expects the PCs to be thanked by
Durnan
for their help in the encounter, and stabilised if they have been reduced to 0 HP.
One thing to remember is that the
Troll regenerates back if it isn't hit by fire when it's at 0 HP. Durnan has no way (as written) to deal that fire damage, so he needs help from somewhere to actually deal the fire damage. The module mentions Durnan dousing the Troll in lamp oil, but that should have at least taken one of his 4 attacks. If you allowed Durnan to throw the lamp oil and make four attacks then you changed the action economy of the fight.
As you mention, the
Troll
is at half it's hitpoints when the encounter starts. This does (technically) reduce it's defensive challenge rating, which will then have a knock on effect on it's overall challenge rating. I have the calculations for this at home and will dig them out (later). This does add additional complications to the calculation though.
You always have the option of not dealing with this complication, and just awarding the normal XP for the monster.
If we use the normal XP for a full health monster, the total XP for the encounter is:
1800 + 3 * 25 = 1875
If we assume you are playing with 4 party members then the encounter XP should be divided by 5 to get the per player XP.
The would mean each player should be awarded
375 XP for the encounter
If you don't include the
Troll
And treat them as two separate encounters, then they would get
18 XP each. (75/4 = 18.75 which is rounded down to 18)
But, they didn't actually hit it?!!
Lets take this argument to the extreme. If you have an encounter setup for your party which has 50 goblins walk around a corner. Your party has a Sorcerer (or a Wizard) with fireball, who happens to roll high enough in initiative that they go before everything else in the encounter (both goblins and other PCs).
The Sorcerer seizes the moment and casts Fireball, incinerating all 50 goblins.
Should the other PCs in your party get an XP share? or should it all go to the Sorcerer?
To put it another way, if your party has an especially low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter (the rest of your party are efficient at their monster murdering). Should that low Dex PC be excluded from the XP calculation?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter can actually participate as a support character. Tank, healer etc. These roles still deserve XP in my opinion.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot I'm talking about a situation where the encounter is over by the time it would be the low Dex PCs turn, and they were in no danger from the encounter (due to how the turn order for the particular instance of the encounter turned out. (In any case I agree that the PC in question should be getting XP).
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
That situation is analogous to the one from Dragon Heist described by the OP. Had the NPC not felled the monster in a single turn, the PCs would most definitely have been in danger and under threat from the monster, and could have participated in the dispatching of it, and should get XP as a result.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes they should get XP for the encounter, but it should be divided between the NPC + Party
Dragon Heist gives you the option of either using XP based advancement, or using milestone advancement. If you choose to use XP based advancement (which you clearly have) then you should be dividing out XP for the encounter as a whole.
Based on your description I believe the encounter in question is the
Troll and 3 stirges
While your party did not actually fight the
Troll
due to lack of opportunity they did participate in the encounter. In particular they stopped
3 stirges from dogpiling on Durnan while Durnan fought the Troll.
Similarly,
Durnan
prevented the PCs from being attacked by the
Troll
Finally the module expects the PCs to be thanked by
Durnan
for their help in the encounter, and stabilised if they have been reduced to 0 HP.
One thing to remember is that the
Troll regenerates back if it isn't hit by fire when it's at 0 HP. Durnan has no way (as written) to deal that fire damage, so he needs help from somewhere to actually deal the fire damage. The module mentions Durnan dousing the Troll in lamp oil, but that should have at least taken one of his 4 attacks. If you allowed Durnan to throw the lamp oil and make four attacks then you changed the action economy of the fight.
As you mention, the
Troll
is at half it's hitpoints when the encounter starts. This does (technically) reduce it's defensive challenge rating, which will then have a knock on effect on it's overall challenge rating. I have the calculations for this at home and will dig them out (later). This does add additional complications to the calculation though.
You always have the option of not dealing with this complication, and just awarding the normal XP for the monster.
If we use the normal XP for a full health monster, the total XP for the encounter is:
1800 + 3 * 25 = 1875
If we assume you are playing with 4 party members then the encounter XP should be divided by 5 to get the per player XP.
The would mean each player should be awarded
375 XP for the encounter
If you don't include the
Troll
And treat them as two separate encounters, then they would get
18 XP each. (75/4 = 18.75 which is rounded down to 18)
But, they didn't actually hit it?!!
Lets take this argument to the extreme. If you have an encounter setup for your party which has 50 goblins walk around a corner. Your party has a Sorcerer (or a Wizard) with fireball, who happens to roll high enough in initiative that they go before everything else in the encounter (both goblins and other PCs).
The Sorcerer seizes the moment and casts Fireball, incinerating all 50 goblins.
Should the other PCs in your party get an XP share? or should it all go to the Sorcerer?
To put it another way, if your party has an especially low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter (the rest of your party are efficient at their monster murdering). Should that low Dex PC be excluded from the XP calculation?
$endgroup$
Yes they should get XP for the encounter, but it should be divided between the NPC + Party
Dragon Heist gives you the option of either using XP based advancement, or using milestone advancement. If you choose to use XP based advancement (which you clearly have) then you should be dividing out XP for the encounter as a whole.
Based on your description I believe the encounter in question is the
Troll and 3 stirges
While your party did not actually fight the
Troll
due to lack of opportunity they did participate in the encounter. In particular they stopped
3 stirges from dogpiling on Durnan while Durnan fought the Troll.
Similarly,
Durnan
prevented the PCs from being attacked by the
Troll
Finally the module expects the PCs to be thanked by
Durnan
for their help in the encounter, and stabilised if they have been reduced to 0 HP.
One thing to remember is that the
Troll regenerates back if it isn't hit by fire when it's at 0 HP. Durnan has no way (as written) to deal that fire damage, so he needs help from somewhere to actually deal the fire damage. The module mentions Durnan dousing the Troll in lamp oil, but that should have at least taken one of his 4 attacks. If you allowed Durnan to throw the lamp oil and make four attacks then you changed the action economy of the fight.
As you mention, the
Troll
is at half it's hitpoints when the encounter starts. This does (technically) reduce it's defensive challenge rating, which will then have a knock on effect on it's overall challenge rating. I have the calculations for this at home and will dig them out (later). This does add additional complications to the calculation though.
You always have the option of not dealing with this complication, and just awarding the normal XP for the monster.
If we use the normal XP for a full health monster, the total XP for the encounter is:
1800 + 3 * 25 = 1875
If we assume you are playing with 4 party members then the encounter XP should be divided by 5 to get the per player XP.
The would mean each player should be awarded
375 XP for the encounter
If you don't include the
Troll
And treat them as two separate encounters, then they would get
18 XP each. (75/4 = 18.75 which is rounded down to 18)
But, they didn't actually hit it?!!
Lets take this argument to the extreme. If you have an encounter setup for your party which has 50 goblins walk around a corner. Your party has a Sorcerer (or a Wizard) with fireball, who happens to roll high enough in initiative that they go before everything else in the encounter (both goblins and other PCs).
The Sorcerer seizes the moment and casts Fireball, incinerating all 50 goblins.
Should the other PCs in your party get an XP share? or should it all go to the Sorcerer?
To put it another way, if your party has an especially low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter (the rest of your party are efficient at their monster murdering). Should that low Dex PC be excluded from the XP calculation?
edited 8 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
illustroillustro
11.4k23785
11.4k23785
$begingroup$
low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter can actually participate as a support character. Tank, healer etc. These roles still deserve XP in my opinion.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot I'm talking about a situation where the encounter is over by the time it would be the low Dex PCs turn, and they were in no danger from the encounter (due to how the turn order for the particular instance of the encounter turned out. (In any case I agree that the PC in question should be getting XP).
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
That situation is analogous to the one from Dragon Heist described by the OP. Had the NPC not felled the monster in a single turn, the PCs would most definitely have been in danger and under threat from the monster, and could have participated in the dispatching of it, and should get XP as a result.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter can actually participate as a support character. Tank, healer etc. These roles still deserve XP in my opinion.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot I'm talking about a situation where the encounter is over by the time it would be the low Dex PCs turn, and they were in no danger from the encounter (due to how the turn order for the particular instance of the encounter turned out. (In any case I agree that the PC in question should be getting XP).
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
That situation is analogous to the one from Dragon Heist described by the OP. Had the NPC not felled the monster in a single turn, the PCs would most definitely have been in danger and under threat from the monster, and could have participated in the dispatching of it, and should get XP as a result.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter can actually participate as a support character. Tank, healer etc. These roles still deserve XP in my opinion.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
low Dex PC who doesn't roll high enough to participate in the encounter can actually participate as a support character. Tank, healer etc. These roles still deserve XP in my opinion.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot I'm talking about a situation where the encounter is over by the time it would be the low Dex PCs turn, and they were in no danger from the encounter (due to how the turn order for the particular instance of the encounter turned out. (In any case I agree that the PC in question should be getting XP).
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot I'm talking about a situation where the encounter is over by the time it would be the low Dex PCs turn, and they were in no danger from the encounter (due to how the turn order for the particular instance of the encounter turned out. (In any case I agree that the PC in question should be getting XP).
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
That situation is analogous to the one from Dragon Heist described by the OP. Had the NPC not felled the monster in a single turn, the PCs would most definitely have been in danger and under threat from the monster, and could have participated in the dispatching of it, and should get XP as a result.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That situation is analogous to the one from Dragon Heist described by the OP. Had the NPC not felled the monster in a single turn, the PCs would most definitely have been in danger and under threat from the monster, and could have participated in the dispatching of it, and should get XP as a result.
$endgroup$
– illustro
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. You get XP for overcoming threats, not for letting someone else do it.
Basic Rules:
As your character goes on adventures and overcomes challenges, he or she gains experience, represented by experience points.
The scenario supplied them with an NPC whose job is to fight the monster and keep it away from the PCs. The NPC did his job, thus preventing the party from ever having to engage with the monster at all. They were, as Buffy the Vampire Slayer would have put it, "fray-adjacent".
If Godzilla is going to eat your peaceful village, and a hero goes and drives Godzilla away, what you did was get rescued. You don't get a share of the XP for that. Your reward is to not get eaten.
The typical D&D party is very often in the position of the hero here: being invited or contracted to deal with someone else's problems. When the Lord of Castle Aaaargh hires you to slay a dragon for him, does he get XP for that? No! Even though, if you had failed, he might well have had to put on his armor and go out there himself. Because that's not what happened. He outsourced the job, so he outsourced the glory.
If you want to advance to hero status, you have to step up to Godzilla in some way. You don't have to kill him, or even fight him. You could decoy him away from the town, or dig a giant trench to stop him. But you have to act.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. You get XP for overcoming threats, not for letting someone else do it.
Basic Rules:
As your character goes on adventures and overcomes challenges, he or she gains experience, represented by experience points.
The scenario supplied them with an NPC whose job is to fight the monster and keep it away from the PCs. The NPC did his job, thus preventing the party from ever having to engage with the monster at all. They were, as Buffy the Vampire Slayer would have put it, "fray-adjacent".
If Godzilla is going to eat your peaceful village, and a hero goes and drives Godzilla away, what you did was get rescued. You don't get a share of the XP for that. Your reward is to not get eaten.
The typical D&D party is very often in the position of the hero here: being invited or contracted to deal with someone else's problems. When the Lord of Castle Aaaargh hires you to slay a dragon for him, does he get XP for that? No! Even though, if you had failed, he might well have had to put on his armor and go out there himself. Because that's not what happened. He outsourced the job, so he outsourced the glory.
If you want to advance to hero status, you have to step up to Godzilla in some way. You don't have to kill him, or even fight him. You could decoy him away from the town, or dig a giant trench to stop him. But you have to act.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. You get XP for overcoming threats, not for letting someone else do it.
Basic Rules:
As your character goes on adventures and overcomes challenges, he or she gains experience, represented by experience points.
The scenario supplied them with an NPC whose job is to fight the monster and keep it away from the PCs. The NPC did his job, thus preventing the party from ever having to engage with the monster at all. They were, as Buffy the Vampire Slayer would have put it, "fray-adjacent".
If Godzilla is going to eat your peaceful village, and a hero goes and drives Godzilla away, what you did was get rescued. You don't get a share of the XP for that. Your reward is to not get eaten.
The typical D&D party is very often in the position of the hero here: being invited or contracted to deal with someone else's problems. When the Lord of Castle Aaaargh hires you to slay a dragon for him, does he get XP for that? No! Even though, if you had failed, he might well have had to put on his armor and go out there himself. Because that's not what happened. He outsourced the job, so he outsourced the glory.
If you want to advance to hero status, you have to step up to Godzilla in some way. You don't have to kill him, or even fight him. You could decoy him away from the town, or dig a giant trench to stop him. But you have to act.
$endgroup$
No. You get XP for overcoming threats, not for letting someone else do it.
Basic Rules:
As your character goes on adventures and overcomes challenges, he or she gains experience, represented by experience points.
The scenario supplied them with an NPC whose job is to fight the monster and keep it away from the PCs. The NPC did his job, thus preventing the party from ever having to engage with the monster at all. They were, as Buffy the Vampire Slayer would have put it, "fray-adjacent".
If Godzilla is going to eat your peaceful village, and a hero goes and drives Godzilla away, what you did was get rescued. You don't get a share of the XP for that. Your reward is to not get eaten.
The typical D&D party is very often in the position of the hero here: being invited or contracted to deal with someone else's problems. When the Lord of Castle Aaaargh hires you to slay a dragon for him, does he get XP for that? No! Even though, if you had failed, he might well have had to put on his armor and go out there himself. Because that's not what happened. He outsourced the job, so he outsourced the glory.
If you want to advance to hero status, you have to step up to Godzilla in some way. You don't have to kill him, or even fight him. You could decoy him away from the town, or dig a giant trench to stop him. But you have to act.
answered 42 mins ago
Mark WellsMark Wells
7,75312356
7,75312356
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73722/…
$endgroup$
– ZwiQ
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I'd suggest using spoiler tags in your question to cover details that people might consider spoilers. You can do this by using >! prior to a block of text. This way you can have a more complete question, without answerers needing to guess at which sections you are addressing.
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
How many players are in your party?
$endgroup$
– illustro
7 hours ago