Are there any “normal” words with the syllable кы?“чё?” or “чо?” - which is the correct spelling?Is 'ё' a distinct letter, or is it just 'е' with a diaeresis?Why is “ф” used almost exclusively in loan words?Нужно ли писать слово Указ с заглавной буквы?Question about spelling “чьё/чья/чьи”Declensions with non-ending consonant removed: судно,…?When does “e” change to “ё” in pluralsWhat are the Latin Transliterations of Hard Consonants Converted to Soft Consonants?Should “йе” after vowel be pronounced [jje]?The cases where “о” is pronounced as “a”

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Are there any “normal” words with the syllable кы?


“чё?” or “чо?” - which is the correct spelling?Is 'ё' a distinct letter, or is it just 'е' with a diaeresis?Why is “ф” used almost exclusively in loan words?Нужно ли писать слово Указ с заглавной буквы?Question about spelling “чьё/чья/чьи”Declensions with non-ending consonant removed: судно,…?When does “e” change to “ё” in pluralsWhat are the Latin Transliterations of Hard Consonants Converted to Soft Consonants?Should “йе” after vowel be pronounced [jje]?The cases where “о” is pronounced as “a”






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








3















Some time ago a Russian academic visitor told me that there are no "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы. He said that the only words with the syllable кы are proper names given by non-Russian ethnic groups as well as similarly exceptional words such as rarely used borrowed words for some unique non-Russian stuff. He added that although Russians can sometimes say "кыш" when they accidentally encounter a bear in a forest, the word "кыш" is a single three-letter syllable and thus does not count as containing the syllable "кы."



After the conversation, I performed research in Google and got really puzzled: I found neither "normal" Russian words with the syllable "кы" nor explanations for that.



I cannot see any obvious reason for the syllable "кы" being nonexistent. The letters к and ы are not rarely used at all and are the 11th and 17th most freuqently used Russian letters, respectively, with the Russian alphabet containing 33 letters in total. The letter ы is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." I can easily find many words with two-letter syllables ending with ы: дыня, пузыри, бычара, лыжи, ныкать, пырять, сычиный, and so on. Although there are apparently no words with жы and шы, the´latter two syllables are simply prohibited by the well-known orthography rule that prescribes writing them as жи and ши, and I am not aware of any similar orthography rule prohibiting кы.



I do not see any phonetics-related reason either, as the syllable кы is pronounced without any difficulties. At least Turkic people have no difficulties pronouncing it, as can be evidenced by their languages. For example, a girl in Turkish is kız (кыз), which is one of the most frequently used Turkish words. The Turkish word for "red" is "kırmızı" (кырмызы). Some Russian geographic names of Turkic origin are written with the syllable кы, e.g., Кызыл, which is a city in Russia.



My question is this: Are there any "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы, and what is the mysterious reason for their nonexistence or being very few?



I guess that in order to make my question well-defined, I have to define a "normal" word, but it is pretty hard, so I have to appeal to your common sense. A "normal" word is not highly special and, in particular, is not extremely rarely used, is not a proper name of non-Russian origin or its derivative, is not a highly specialized jargon or slang word, is not a rare borrowed word for some unique foreign stuff, etc. A "normal" word is contained in standard dictionaries, is recognized by linguists as a part of the Russian language, is known to almost every Russian, etc. I humbly hope that you get the idea what is a "normal" word. I am especially interested to see Russian words of Slavic origin with the syllable "кы."










share|improve this question
























  • This is a very complicated question, it involves the historical phonology and phonetics of Russian, and there are several theories explaining why all the Old Russian кы (and also гы and хы) became ки (ги, хи) in Modern Standard Russian, but remained in some Russian dialects. Note, that in the first Slavic written records only кы, гы, хы existed, ки, ги, хи were not possible. In a book, the answer to your question occupies four pages, I'll give a link in the next cooment.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago












  • You can read it here, pages 194 (from section 2.) – 197.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago

















3















Some time ago a Russian academic visitor told me that there are no "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы. He said that the only words with the syllable кы are proper names given by non-Russian ethnic groups as well as similarly exceptional words such as rarely used borrowed words for some unique non-Russian stuff. He added that although Russians can sometimes say "кыш" when they accidentally encounter a bear in a forest, the word "кыш" is a single three-letter syllable and thus does not count as containing the syllable "кы."



After the conversation, I performed research in Google and got really puzzled: I found neither "normal" Russian words with the syllable "кы" nor explanations for that.



I cannot see any obvious reason for the syllable "кы" being nonexistent. The letters к and ы are not rarely used at all and are the 11th and 17th most freuqently used Russian letters, respectively, with the Russian alphabet containing 33 letters in total. The letter ы is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." I can easily find many words with two-letter syllables ending with ы: дыня, пузыри, бычара, лыжи, ныкать, пырять, сычиный, and so on. Although there are apparently no words with жы and шы, the´latter two syllables are simply prohibited by the well-known orthography rule that prescribes writing them as жи and ши, and I am not aware of any similar orthography rule prohibiting кы.



I do not see any phonetics-related reason either, as the syllable кы is pronounced without any difficulties. At least Turkic people have no difficulties pronouncing it, as can be evidenced by their languages. For example, a girl in Turkish is kız (кыз), which is one of the most frequently used Turkish words. The Turkish word for "red" is "kırmızı" (кырмызы). Some Russian geographic names of Turkic origin are written with the syllable кы, e.g., Кызыл, which is a city in Russia.



My question is this: Are there any "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы, and what is the mysterious reason for their nonexistence or being very few?



I guess that in order to make my question well-defined, I have to define a "normal" word, but it is pretty hard, so I have to appeal to your common sense. A "normal" word is not highly special and, in particular, is not extremely rarely used, is not a proper name of non-Russian origin or its derivative, is not a highly specialized jargon or slang word, is not a rare borrowed word for some unique foreign stuff, etc. A "normal" word is contained in standard dictionaries, is recognized by linguists as a part of the Russian language, is known to almost every Russian, etc. I humbly hope that you get the idea what is a "normal" word. I am especially interested to see Russian words of Slavic origin with the syllable "кы."










share|improve this question
























  • This is a very complicated question, it involves the historical phonology and phonetics of Russian, and there are several theories explaining why all the Old Russian кы (and also гы and хы) became ки (ги, хи) in Modern Standard Russian, but remained in some Russian dialects. Note, that in the first Slavic written records only кы, гы, хы existed, ки, ги, хи were not possible. In a book, the answer to your question occupies four pages, I'll give a link in the next cooment.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago












  • You can read it here, pages 194 (from section 2.) – 197.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago













3












3








3








Some time ago a Russian academic visitor told me that there are no "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы. He said that the only words with the syllable кы are proper names given by non-Russian ethnic groups as well as similarly exceptional words such as rarely used borrowed words for some unique non-Russian stuff. He added that although Russians can sometimes say "кыш" when they accidentally encounter a bear in a forest, the word "кыш" is a single three-letter syllable and thus does not count as containing the syllable "кы."



After the conversation, I performed research in Google and got really puzzled: I found neither "normal" Russian words with the syllable "кы" nor explanations for that.



I cannot see any obvious reason for the syllable "кы" being nonexistent. The letters к and ы are not rarely used at all and are the 11th and 17th most freuqently used Russian letters, respectively, with the Russian alphabet containing 33 letters in total. The letter ы is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." I can easily find many words with two-letter syllables ending with ы: дыня, пузыри, бычара, лыжи, ныкать, пырять, сычиный, and so on. Although there are apparently no words with жы and шы, the´latter two syllables are simply prohibited by the well-known orthography rule that prescribes writing them as жи and ши, and I am not aware of any similar orthography rule prohibiting кы.



I do not see any phonetics-related reason either, as the syllable кы is pronounced without any difficulties. At least Turkic people have no difficulties pronouncing it, as can be evidenced by their languages. For example, a girl in Turkish is kız (кыз), which is one of the most frequently used Turkish words. The Turkish word for "red" is "kırmızı" (кырмызы). Some Russian geographic names of Turkic origin are written with the syllable кы, e.g., Кызыл, which is a city in Russia.



My question is this: Are there any "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы, and what is the mysterious reason for their nonexistence or being very few?



I guess that in order to make my question well-defined, I have to define a "normal" word, but it is pretty hard, so I have to appeal to your common sense. A "normal" word is not highly special and, in particular, is not extremely rarely used, is not a proper name of non-Russian origin or its derivative, is not a highly specialized jargon or slang word, is not a rare borrowed word for some unique foreign stuff, etc. A "normal" word is contained in standard dictionaries, is recognized by linguists as a part of the Russian language, is known to almost every Russian, etc. I humbly hope that you get the idea what is a "normal" word. I am especially interested to see Russian words of Slavic origin with the syllable "кы."










share|improve this question
















Some time ago a Russian academic visitor told me that there are no "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы. He said that the only words with the syllable кы are proper names given by non-Russian ethnic groups as well as similarly exceptional words such as rarely used borrowed words for some unique non-Russian stuff. He added that although Russians can sometimes say "кыш" when they accidentally encounter a bear in a forest, the word "кыш" is a single three-letter syllable and thus does not count as containing the syllable "кы."



After the conversation, I performed research in Google and got really puzzled: I found neither "normal" Russian words with the syllable "кы" nor explanations for that.



I cannot see any obvious reason for the syllable "кы" being nonexistent. The letters к and ы are not rarely used at all and are the 11th and 17th most freuqently used Russian letters, respectively, with the Russian alphabet containing 33 letters in total. The letter ы is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." I can easily find many words with two-letter syllables ending with ы: дыня, пузыри, бычара, лыжи, ныкать, пырять, сычиный, and so on. Although there are apparently no words with жы and шы, the´latter two syllables are simply prohibited by the well-known orthography rule that prescribes writing them as жи and ши, and I am not aware of any similar orthography rule prohibiting кы.



I do not see any phonetics-related reason either, as the syllable кы is pronounced without any difficulties. At least Turkic people have no difficulties pronouncing it, as can be evidenced by their languages. For example, a girl in Turkish is kız (кыз), which is one of the most frequently used Turkish words. The Turkish word for "red" is "kırmızı" (кырмызы). Some Russian geographic names of Turkic origin are written with the syllable кы, e.g., Кызыл, which is a city in Russia.



My question is this: Are there any "normal" Russian words with the syllable кы, and what is the mysterious reason for their nonexistence or being very few?



I guess that in order to make my question well-defined, I have to define a "normal" word, but it is pretty hard, so I have to appeal to your common sense. A "normal" word is not highly special and, in particular, is not extremely rarely used, is not a proper name of non-Russian origin or its derivative, is not a highly specialized jargon or slang word, is not a rare borrowed word for some unique foreign stuff, etc. A "normal" word is contained in standard dictionaries, is recognized by linguists as a part of the Russian language, is known to almost every Russian, etc. I humbly hope that you get the idea what is a "normal" word. I am especially interested to see Russian words of Slavic origin with the syllable "кы."







орфография фонетика согласные vowel






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago







Mitsuko

















asked 8 hours ago









MitsukoMitsuko

1,8281727




1,8281727












  • This is a very complicated question, it involves the historical phonology and phonetics of Russian, and there are several theories explaining why all the Old Russian кы (and also гы and хы) became ки (ги, хи) in Modern Standard Russian, but remained in some Russian dialects. Note, that in the first Slavic written records only кы, гы, хы existed, ки, ги, хи were not possible. In a book, the answer to your question occupies four pages, I'll give a link in the next cooment.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago












  • You can read it here, pages 194 (from section 2.) – 197.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago

















  • This is a very complicated question, it involves the historical phonology and phonetics of Russian, and there are several theories explaining why all the Old Russian кы (and also гы and хы) became ки (ги, хи) in Modern Standard Russian, but remained in some Russian dialects. Note, that in the first Slavic written records only кы, гы, хы existed, ки, ги, хи were not possible. In a book, the answer to your question occupies four pages, I'll give a link in the next cooment.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago












  • You can read it here, pages 194 (from section 2.) – 197.

    – Yellow Sky
    7 hours ago
















This is a very complicated question, it involves the historical phonology and phonetics of Russian, and there are several theories explaining why all the Old Russian кы (and also гы and хы) became ки (ги, хи) in Modern Standard Russian, but remained in some Russian dialects. Note, that in the first Slavic written records only кы, гы, хы existed, ки, ги, хи were not possible. In a book, the answer to your question occupies four pages, I'll give a link in the next cooment.

– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago






This is a very complicated question, it involves the historical phonology and phonetics of Russian, and there are several theories explaining why all the Old Russian кы (and also гы and хы) became ки (ги, хи) in Modern Standard Russian, but remained in some Russian dialects. Note, that in the first Slavic written records only кы, гы, хы existed, ки, ги, хи were not possible. In a book, the answer to your question occupies four pages, I'll give a link in the next cooment.

– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago














You can read it here, pages 194 (from section 2.) – 197.

– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago





You can read it here, pages 194 (from section 2.) – 197.

– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

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2














Difference between и and ы in Russian is not phonematic, as well as the difference between palatalized and non-palatalized к, г, х.



You can probably find some degenerate minimal pairs for the latter, like тот кот / то ткёт, but that's about it.



Old Russian did have кы, гы, хы and didn't have ки, ги, хи.



After the fall of the reduced vowels, Russian phonology had a major paradigm shift: vowel quality (front or back) stopped being a distinctive feature, and this role moved to the preceding consonant.



In other words, pairs like мал / мял are pronounced differently not because they have a different vowel, but because they have a different consonant before it. А and я are the same phoneme, and м and мь are two different ones.



So now that front and back vowels are not distinct phonemes anymore, Russian had to settle on a way to pronounce к, г, х, which didn't have a phonematic distinction between soft and hard varieties.



Unlike ш, щ, ч, ц (which are either always soft or always hard), к, г, х became soft before и and е and hard before а, о, у.



I don't know why exactly did that happen (vowels shaping the rendition of к, г, х and not the other way around), but for some reason it did.






share|improve this answer






























    2














    You will also hardly find гы, хы syllables. The common quality of these phonemes is that к, г, х are заднеязычные согласные and they followed the same patterns of phonetic changes as they (the changes) happened in Old Russian language.



    Apparently, about a thousand years ago the situation was quite different:



    (Unfortunately, some formatting has been lost, the ять letter is shown as [ h].
    This can hopefully be fixed but I have no time to investigate at the moment).



    The full PDF is here



     2. История заднеязычных согласных. 
    а) Заднеязычные согласные долго оставались в стороне от процесса фор-
    мирования корреляции по твердости-мягкости. Древнейшим фонетическим из-
    менением в этом направлении было изменение сочетаний [кы, гы, хы] в [ки, ги,
    хи]. Сочетания заднеязычных не только с [ы], но и с [и] стали возможны после
    утраты редуцированных. В северных говорах сочетания ки, ги, хи были воз-
    можны и в древнерусский период. В новгородских берестяных грамотах написания
    с кы, гы, хы встречаются только в церковных текстах [пакы, но: не моги].
    Первые примеры замен кы, гы, хы на ки, ги, хи обнаруживаются на юге в XII в.:
    великии (Юрьев.ев. 1120 г.); никии, секира (Добр.ев. 1164 г.); на западе с XIII в.:
    княгини, лихии (Гр. 1229 г.); на северо-востоке с XIV в. (Переяслав.ев. 1354 г.,
    Москов.ев. 1358 г., ЛЛ 1377 г.).
    Процесс смягчения шел с юга и постепенно стал общерусским. В нем в
    известной степени отразилась общая тенденция консонантизма к выравниванию.
    К этому времени все согласные кроме к, г, х в результате вторичного смягчения
    имели соотносительные пары, и только заднеязычные оставались вне корреляции
    по твердости-мягкости. Кроме того, в древнерусском языке были представлены
    заимствования типа: ангел, кипарис, евангелие, где имели место сочетания
    заднеязычных с гласными переднего ряда. Это обстоятельство также могло оказать
    определенное влияние на этот процесс.
    Как известно, заднеязычные согласные по закону слогового сингармонизма
    не могли находиться перед гласными переднего ряда. В этом положении они уже
    в праславянский период изменялись либо в мягкие шипящие (I палат.), либо
    в мягкие свистящие (II палат.). Аналогичное изменение происходило и в случаях,
    когда заднеязычные испытывали воздействие со стороны *j (j-овая палат.).
    Если результаты I палатализации в современном русском языке сохранились,
    то рефлексы II палатализации были в основном устранены. Они представлены
    единичными случаями в корнях слов: цена, целый, цеп, цедить, зело, серый,
    седой и др. В древнерусском языке результаты II палатализации отражены:
    а) в корнях; б) в формах словоизменения (в существительных – друзи, послуси,
    ученици; на ноз h , въ руц h ; в глаголах – помози, рьц h те).
    Почему произошла утрата результатов II палатализации? Предпосылки
    к устранению чередований к/ц, г/з, х/с были заложены в природе восточнославянских
    языков:
    II палатализация отсутствовала в некоторых древнерусских говорах
    (древненовгородских и псковских). Здесь заднеязычные могли находиться в одном
    слоге с гласными переднего ряда: къ Лук h , у влдк h , по велик h д(ни) и др.
    Современные диалектные материалы показывают, что следов II палатализации нет и
    в ряде корневых морфем, напр.диал.: кедилка, кеп, квет, квел. На основании
    приведенных данных В.В. Колесов делает следующее заключение:
    «…у восточных славян (может быть, не на всей территории) возникли условия,
    препятствовавшие последовательному завершению II палатализации заднеязычных».
    Таким образом, по крайней мере в отдельных говорах, появляется возможность
    сочетания заднеязычных согласных с гласными и, [ě] дифтонгического происхождения.
    С другой стороны, сохранение заднеязычных при склонении обеспечивало единый
    облик основы во всей парадигме. А в системе любого языка заложена тенденция к
    выравниванию основы в пределах парадигмы. Таким образом, эта диалектная особенность
    оказалась созвучной общерусской тенденции к выравниванию основы. Поэтому чередования
    заднеязычных со свистящими полностью исчезли в грамматических формах. Это произошло
    к XIV - XV вв.





    share|improve this answer
































      -1














      Hmm, before i read that i actualy didnt notice there is no native russian word with кы. Generelly, i d say ы and э (what is frequent in vestern europa languages) are hard rought sounds and they just sounds rude. But for example in Ukrainian or Tatar is mutch more those sounds...






      share|improve this answer























      • The letter ы is frequently used in Russian and is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." There are really many Russian words with ы - бык, дышать, быть, дым, сын, etc. But it appears that for some mysterious reason the syllable кы is a sort of forbidden. I am curious as to what this reason is.

        – Mitsuko
        7 hours ago











      • There's no "sound ы" in Ukrainian.

        – Yellow Sky
        7 hours ago











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      Difference between и and ы in Russian is not phonematic, as well as the difference between palatalized and non-palatalized к, г, х.



      You can probably find some degenerate minimal pairs for the latter, like тот кот / то ткёт, but that's about it.



      Old Russian did have кы, гы, хы and didn't have ки, ги, хи.



      After the fall of the reduced vowels, Russian phonology had a major paradigm shift: vowel quality (front or back) stopped being a distinctive feature, and this role moved to the preceding consonant.



      In other words, pairs like мал / мял are pronounced differently not because they have a different vowel, but because they have a different consonant before it. А and я are the same phoneme, and м and мь are two different ones.



      So now that front and back vowels are not distinct phonemes anymore, Russian had to settle on a way to pronounce к, г, х, which didn't have a phonematic distinction between soft and hard varieties.



      Unlike ш, щ, ч, ц (which are either always soft or always hard), к, г, х became soft before и and е and hard before а, о, у.



      I don't know why exactly did that happen (vowels shaping the rendition of к, г, х and not the other way around), but for some reason it did.






      share|improve this answer



























        2














        Difference between и and ы in Russian is not phonematic, as well as the difference between palatalized and non-palatalized к, г, х.



        You can probably find some degenerate minimal pairs for the latter, like тот кот / то ткёт, but that's about it.



        Old Russian did have кы, гы, хы and didn't have ки, ги, хи.



        After the fall of the reduced vowels, Russian phonology had a major paradigm shift: vowel quality (front or back) stopped being a distinctive feature, and this role moved to the preceding consonant.



        In other words, pairs like мал / мял are pronounced differently not because they have a different vowel, but because they have a different consonant before it. А and я are the same phoneme, and м and мь are two different ones.



        So now that front and back vowels are not distinct phonemes anymore, Russian had to settle on a way to pronounce к, г, х, which didn't have a phonematic distinction between soft and hard varieties.



        Unlike ш, щ, ч, ц (which are either always soft or always hard), к, г, х became soft before и and е and hard before а, о, у.



        I don't know why exactly did that happen (vowels shaping the rendition of к, г, х and not the other way around), but for some reason it did.






        share|improve this answer

























          2












          2








          2







          Difference between и and ы in Russian is not phonematic, as well as the difference between palatalized and non-palatalized к, г, х.



          You can probably find some degenerate minimal pairs for the latter, like тот кот / то ткёт, but that's about it.



          Old Russian did have кы, гы, хы and didn't have ки, ги, хи.



          After the fall of the reduced vowels, Russian phonology had a major paradigm shift: vowel quality (front or back) stopped being a distinctive feature, and this role moved to the preceding consonant.



          In other words, pairs like мал / мял are pronounced differently not because they have a different vowel, but because they have a different consonant before it. А and я are the same phoneme, and м and мь are two different ones.



          So now that front and back vowels are not distinct phonemes anymore, Russian had to settle on a way to pronounce к, г, х, which didn't have a phonematic distinction between soft and hard varieties.



          Unlike ш, щ, ч, ц (which are either always soft or always hard), к, г, х became soft before и and е and hard before а, о, у.



          I don't know why exactly did that happen (vowels shaping the rendition of к, г, х and not the other way around), but for some reason it did.






          share|improve this answer













          Difference between и and ы in Russian is not phonematic, as well as the difference between palatalized and non-palatalized к, г, х.



          You can probably find some degenerate minimal pairs for the latter, like тот кот / то ткёт, but that's about it.



          Old Russian did have кы, гы, хы and didn't have ки, ги, хи.



          After the fall of the reduced vowels, Russian phonology had a major paradigm shift: vowel quality (front or back) stopped being a distinctive feature, and this role moved to the preceding consonant.



          In other words, pairs like мал / мял are pronounced differently not because they have a different vowel, but because they have a different consonant before it. А and я are the same phoneme, and м and мь are two different ones.



          So now that front and back vowels are not distinct phonemes anymore, Russian had to settle on a way to pronounce к, г, х, which didn't have a phonematic distinction between soft and hard varieties.



          Unlike ш, щ, ч, ц (which are either always soft or always hard), к, г, х became soft before и and е and hard before а, о, у.



          I don't know why exactly did that happen (vowels shaping the rendition of к, г, х and not the other way around), but for some reason it did.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 7 hours ago









          QuassnoiQuassnoi

          33.5k254125




          33.5k254125























              2














              You will also hardly find гы, хы syllables. The common quality of these phonemes is that к, г, х are заднеязычные согласные and they followed the same patterns of phonetic changes as they (the changes) happened in Old Russian language.



              Apparently, about a thousand years ago the situation was quite different:



              (Unfortunately, some formatting has been lost, the ять letter is shown as [ h].
              This can hopefully be fixed but I have no time to investigate at the moment).



              The full PDF is here



               2. История заднеязычных согласных. 
              а) Заднеязычные согласные долго оставались в стороне от процесса фор-
              мирования корреляции по твердости-мягкости. Древнейшим фонетическим из-
              менением в этом направлении было изменение сочетаний [кы, гы, хы] в [ки, ги,
              хи]. Сочетания заднеязычных не только с [ы], но и с [и] стали возможны после
              утраты редуцированных. В северных говорах сочетания ки, ги, хи были воз-
              можны и в древнерусский период. В новгородских берестяных грамотах написания
              с кы, гы, хы встречаются только в церковных текстах [пакы, но: не моги].
              Первые примеры замен кы, гы, хы на ки, ги, хи обнаруживаются на юге в XII в.:
              великии (Юрьев.ев. 1120 г.); никии, секира (Добр.ев. 1164 г.); на западе с XIII в.:
              княгини, лихии (Гр. 1229 г.); на северо-востоке с XIV в. (Переяслав.ев. 1354 г.,
              Москов.ев. 1358 г., ЛЛ 1377 г.).
              Процесс смягчения шел с юга и постепенно стал общерусским. В нем в
              известной степени отразилась общая тенденция консонантизма к выравниванию.
              К этому времени все согласные кроме к, г, х в результате вторичного смягчения
              имели соотносительные пары, и только заднеязычные оставались вне корреляции
              по твердости-мягкости. Кроме того, в древнерусском языке были представлены
              заимствования типа: ангел, кипарис, евангелие, где имели место сочетания
              заднеязычных с гласными переднего ряда. Это обстоятельство также могло оказать
              определенное влияние на этот процесс.
              Как известно, заднеязычные согласные по закону слогового сингармонизма
              не могли находиться перед гласными переднего ряда. В этом положении они уже
              в праславянский период изменялись либо в мягкие шипящие (I палат.), либо
              в мягкие свистящие (II палат.). Аналогичное изменение происходило и в случаях,
              когда заднеязычные испытывали воздействие со стороны *j (j-овая палат.).
              Если результаты I палатализации в современном русском языке сохранились,
              то рефлексы II палатализации были в основном устранены. Они представлены
              единичными случаями в корнях слов: цена, целый, цеп, цедить, зело, серый,
              седой и др. В древнерусском языке результаты II палатализации отражены:
              а) в корнях; б) в формах словоизменения (в существительных – друзи, послуси,
              ученици; на ноз h , въ руц h ; в глаголах – помози, рьц h те).
              Почему произошла утрата результатов II палатализации? Предпосылки
              к устранению чередований к/ц, г/з, х/с были заложены в природе восточнославянских
              языков:
              II палатализация отсутствовала в некоторых древнерусских говорах
              (древненовгородских и псковских). Здесь заднеязычные могли находиться в одном
              слоге с гласными переднего ряда: къ Лук h , у влдк h , по велик h д(ни) и др.
              Современные диалектные материалы показывают, что следов II палатализации нет и
              в ряде корневых морфем, напр.диал.: кедилка, кеп, квет, квел. На основании
              приведенных данных В.В. Колесов делает следующее заключение:
              «…у восточных славян (может быть, не на всей территории) возникли условия,
              препятствовавшие последовательному завершению II палатализации заднеязычных».
              Таким образом, по крайней мере в отдельных говорах, появляется возможность
              сочетания заднеязычных согласных с гласными и, [ě] дифтонгического происхождения.
              С другой стороны, сохранение заднеязычных при склонении обеспечивало единый
              облик основы во всей парадигме. А в системе любого языка заложена тенденция к
              выравниванию основы в пределах парадигмы. Таким образом, эта диалектная особенность
              оказалась созвучной общерусской тенденции к выравниванию основы. Поэтому чередования
              заднеязычных со свистящими полностью исчезли в грамматических формах. Это произошло
              к XIV - XV вв.





              share|improve this answer





























                2














                You will also hardly find гы, хы syllables. The common quality of these phonemes is that к, г, х are заднеязычные согласные and they followed the same patterns of phonetic changes as they (the changes) happened in Old Russian language.



                Apparently, about a thousand years ago the situation was quite different:



                (Unfortunately, some formatting has been lost, the ять letter is shown as [ h].
                This can hopefully be fixed but I have no time to investigate at the moment).



                The full PDF is here



                 2. История заднеязычных согласных. 
                а) Заднеязычные согласные долго оставались в стороне от процесса фор-
                мирования корреляции по твердости-мягкости. Древнейшим фонетическим из-
                менением в этом направлении было изменение сочетаний [кы, гы, хы] в [ки, ги,
                хи]. Сочетания заднеязычных не только с [ы], но и с [и] стали возможны после
                утраты редуцированных. В северных говорах сочетания ки, ги, хи были воз-
                можны и в древнерусский период. В новгородских берестяных грамотах написания
                с кы, гы, хы встречаются только в церковных текстах [пакы, но: не моги].
                Первые примеры замен кы, гы, хы на ки, ги, хи обнаруживаются на юге в XII в.:
                великии (Юрьев.ев. 1120 г.); никии, секира (Добр.ев. 1164 г.); на западе с XIII в.:
                княгини, лихии (Гр. 1229 г.); на северо-востоке с XIV в. (Переяслав.ев. 1354 г.,
                Москов.ев. 1358 г., ЛЛ 1377 г.).
                Процесс смягчения шел с юга и постепенно стал общерусским. В нем в
                известной степени отразилась общая тенденция консонантизма к выравниванию.
                К этому времени все согласные кроме к, г, х в результате вторичного смягчения
                имели соотносительные пары, и только заднеязычные оставались вне корреляции
                по твердости-мягкости. Кроме того, в древнерусском языке были представлены
                заимствования типа: ангел, кипарис, евангелие, где имели место сочетания
                заднеязычных с гласными переднего ряда. Это обстоятельство также могло оказать
                определенное влияние на этот процесс.
                Как известно, заднеязычные согласные по закону слогового сингармонизма
                не могли находиться перед гласными переднего ряда. В этом положении они уже
                в праславянский период изменялись либо в мягкие шипящие (I палат.), либо
                в мягкие свистящие (II палат.). Аналогичное изменение происходило и в случаях,
                когда заднеязычные испытывали воздействие со стороны *j (j-овая палат.).
                Если результаты I палатализации в современном русском языке сохранились,
                то рефлексы II палатализации были в основном устранены. Они представлены
                единичными случаями в корнях слов: цена, целый, цеп, цедить, зело, серый,
                седой и др. В древнерусском языке результаты II палатализации отражены:
                а) в корнях; б) в формах словоизменения (в существительных – друзи, послуси,
                ученици; на ноз h , въ руц h ; в глаголах – помози, рьц h те).
                Почему произошла утрата результатов II палатализации? Предпосылки
                к устранению чередований к/ц, г/з, х/с были заложены в природе восточнославянских
                языков:
                II палатализация отсутствовала в некоторых древнерусских говорах
                (древненовгородских и псковских). Здесь заднеязычные могли находиться в одном
                слоге с гласными переднего ряда: къ Лук h , у влдк h , по велик h д(ни) и др.
                Современные диалектные материалы показывают, что следов II палатализации нет и
                в ряде корневых морфем, напр.диал.: кедилка, кеп, квет, квел. На основании
                приведенных данных В.В. Колесов делает следующее заключение:
                «…у восточных славян (может быть, не на всей территории) возникли условия,
                препятствовавшие последовательному завершению II палатализации заднеязычных».
                Таким образом, по крайней мере в отдельных говорах, появляется возможность
                сочетания заднеязычных согласных с гласными и, [ě] дифтонгического происхождения.
                С другой стороны, сохранение заднеязычных при склонении обеспечивало единый
                облик основы во всей парадигме. А в системе любого языка заложена тенденция к
                выравниванию основы в пределах парадигмы. Таким образом, эта диалектная особенность
                оказалась созвучной общерусской тенденции к выравниванию основы. Поэтому чередования
                заднеязычных со свистящими полностью исчезли в грамматических формах. Это произошло
                к XIV - XV вв.





                share|improve this answer



























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  You will also hardly find гы, хы syllables. The common quality of these phonemes is that к, г, х are заднеязычные согласные and they followed the same patterns of phonetic changes as they (the changes) happened in Old Russian language.



                  Apparently, about a thousand years ago the situation was quite different:



                  (Unfortunately, some formatting has been lost, the ять letter is shown as [ h].
                  This can hopefully be fixed but I have no time to investigate at the moment).



                  The full PDF is here



                   2. История заднеязычных согласных. 
                  а) Заднеязычные согласные долго оставались в стороне от процесса фор-
                  мирования корреляции по твердости-мягкости. Древнейшим фонетическим из-
                  менением в этом направлении было изменение сочетаний [кы, гы, хы] в [ки, ги,
                  хи]. Сочетания заднеязычных не только с [ы], но и с [и] стали возможны после
                  утраты редуцированных. В северных говорах сочетания ки, ги, хи были воз-
                  можны и в древнерусский период. В новгородских берестяных грамотах написания
                  с кы, гы, хы встречаются только в церковных текстах [пакы, но: не моги].
                  Первые примеры замен кы, гы, хы на ки, ги, хи обнаруживаются на юге в XII в.:
                  великии (Юрьев.ев. 1120 г.); никии, секира (Добр.ев. 1164 г.); на западе с XIII в.:
                  княгини, лихии (Гр. 1229 г.); на северо-востоке с XIV в. (Переяслав.ев. 1354 г.,
                  Москов.ев. 1358 г., ЛЛ 1377 г.).
                  Процесс смягчения шел с юга и постепенно стал общерусским. В нем в
                  известной степени отразилась общая тенденция консонантизма к выравниванию.
                  К этому времени все согласные кроме к, г, х в результате вторичного смягчения
                  имели соотносительные пары, и только заднеязычные оставались вне корреляции
                  по твердости-мягкости. Кроме того, в древнерусском языке были представлены
                  заимствования типа: ангел, кипарис, евангелие, где имели место сочетания
                  заднеязычных с гласными переднего ряда. Это обстоятельство также могло оказать
                  определенное влияние на этот процесс.
                  Как известно, заднеязычные согласные по закону слогового сингармонизма
                  не могли находиться перед гласными переднего ряда. В этом положении они уже
                  в праславянский период изменялись либо в мягкие шипящие (I палат.), либо
                  в мягкие свистящие (II палат.). Аналогичное изменение происходило и в случаях,
                  когда заднеязычные испытывали воздействие со стороны *j (j-овая палат.).
                  Если результаты I палатализации в современном русском языке сохранились,
                  то рефлексы II палатализации были в основном устранены. Они представлены
                  единичными случаями в корнях слов: цена, целый, цеп, цедить, зело, серый,
                  седой и др. В древнерусском языке результаты II палатализации отражены:
                  а) в корнях; б) в формах словоизменения (в существительных – друзи, послуси,
                  ученици; на ноз h , въ руц h ; в глаголах – помози, рьц h те).
                  Почему произошла утрата результатов II палатализации? Предпосылки
                  к устранению чередований к/ц, г/з, х/с были заложены в природе восточнославянских
                  языков:
                  II палатализация отсутствовала в некоторых древнерусских говорах
                  (древненовгородских и псковских). Здесь заднеязычные могли находиться в одном
                  слоге с гласными переднего ряда: къ Лук h , у влдк h , по велик h д(ни) и др.
                  Современные диалектные материалы показывают, что следов II палатализации нет и
                  в ряде корневых морфем, напр.диал.: кедилка, кеп, квет, квел. На основании
                  приведенных данных В.В. Колесов делает следующее заключение:
                  «…у восточных славян (может быть, не на всей территории) возникли условия,
                  препятствовавшие последовательному завершению II палатализации заднеязычных».
                  Таким образом, по крайней мере в отдельных говорах, появляется возможность
                  сочетания заднеязычных согласных с гласными и, [ě] дифтонгического происхождения.
                  С другой стороны, сохранение заднеязычных при склонении обеспечивало единый
                  облик основы во всей парадигме. А в системе любого языка заложена тенденция к
                  выравниванию основы в пределах парадигмы. Таким образом, эта диалектная особенность
                  оказалась созвучной общерусской тенденции к выравниванию основы. Поэтому чередования
                  заднеязычных со свистящими полностью исчезли в грамматических формах. Это произошло
                  к XIV - XV вв.





                  share|improve this answer















                  You will also hardly find гы, хы syllables. The common quality of these phonemes is that к, г, х are заднеязычные согласные and they followed the same patterns of phonetic changes as they (the changes) happened in Old Russian language.



                  Apparently, about a thousand years ago the situation was quite different:



                  (Unfortunately, some formatting has been lost, the ять letter is shown as [ h].
                  This can hopefully be fixed but I have no time to investigate at the moment).



                  The full PDF is here



                   2. История заднеязычных согласных. 
                  а) Заднеязычные согласные долго оставались в стороне от процесса фор-
                  мирования корреляции по твердости-мягкости. Древнейшим фонетическим из-
                  менением в этом направлении было изменение сочетаний [кы, гы, хы] в [ки, ги,
                  хи]. Сочетания заднеязычных не только с [ы], но и с [и] стали возможны после
                  утраты редуцированных. В северных говорах сочетания ки, ги, хи были воз-
                  можны и в древнерусский период. В новгородских берестяных грамотах написания
                  с кы, гы, хы встречаются только в церковных текстах [пакы, но: не моги].
                  Первые примеры замен кы, гы, хы на ки, ги, хи обнаруживаются на юге в XII в.:
                  великии (Юрьев.ев. 1120 г.); никии, секира (Добр.ев. 1164 г.); на западе с XIII в.:
                  княгини, лихии (Гр. 1229 г.); на северо-востоке с XIV в. (Переяслав.ев. 1354 г.,
                  Москов.ев. 1358 г., ЛЛ 1377 г.).
                  Процесс смягчения шел с юга и постепенно стал общерусским. В нем в
                  известной степени отразилась общая тенденция консонантизма к выравниванию.
                  К этому времени все согласные кроме к, г, х в результате вторичного смягчения
                  имели соотносительные пары, и только заднеязычные оставались вне корреляции
                  по твердости-мягкости. Кроме того, в древнерусском языке были представлены
                  заимствования типа: ангел, кипарис, евангелие, где имели место сочетания
                  заднеязычных с гласными переднего ряда. Это обстоятельство также могло оказать
                  определенное влияние на этот процесс.
                  Как известно, заднеязычные согласные по закону слогового сингармонизма
                  не могли находиться перед гласными переднего ряда. В этом положении они уже
                  в праславянский период изменялись либо в мягкие шипящие (I палат.), либо
                  в мягкие свистящие (II палат.). Аналогичное изменение происходило и в случаях,
                  когда заднеязычные испытывали воздействие со стороны *j (j-овая палат.).
                  Если результаты I палатализации в современном русском языке сохранились,
                  то рефлексы II палатализации были в основном устранены. Они представлены
                  единичными случаями в корнях слов: цена, целый, цеп, цедить, зело, серый,
                  седой и др. В древнерусском языке результаты II палатализации отражены:
                  а) в корнях; б) в формах словоизменения (в существительных – друзи, послуси,
                  ученици; на ноз h , въ руц h ; в глаголах – помози, рьц h те).
                  Почему произошла утрата результатов II палатализации? Предпосылки
                  к устранению чередований к/ц, г/з, х/с были заложены в природе восточнославянских
                  языков:
                  II палатализация отсутствовала в некоторых древнерусских говорах
                  (древненовгородских и псковских). Здесь заднеязычные могли находиться в одном
                  слоге с гласными переднего ряда: къ Лук h , у влдк h , по велик h д(ни) и др.
                  Современные диалектные материалы показывают, что следов II палатализации нет и
                  в ряде корневых морфем, напр.диал.: кедилка, кеп, квет, квел. На основании
                  приведенных данных В.В. Колесов делает следующее заключение:
                  «…у восточных славян (может быть, не на всей территории) возникли условия,
                  препятствовавшие последовательному завершению II палатализации заднеязычных».
                  Таким образом, по крайней мере в отдельных говорах, появляется возможность
                  сочетания заднеязычных согласных с гласными и, [ě] дифтонгического происхождения.
                  С другой стороны, сохранение заднеязычных при склонении обеспечивало единый
                  облик основы во всей парадигме. А в системе любого языка заложена тенденция к
                  выравниванию основы в пределах парадигмы. Таким образом, эта диалектная особенность
                  оказалась созвучной общерусской тенденции к выравниванию основы. Поэтому чередования
                  заднеязычных со свистящими полностью исчезли в грамматических формах. Это произошло
                  к XIV - XV вв.






                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 7 hours ago

























                  answered 7 hours ago









                  tum_tum_

                  6071510




                  6071510





















                      -1














                      Hmm, before i read that i actualy didnt notice there is no native russian word with кы. Generelly, i d say ы and э (what is frequent in vestern europa languages) are hard rought sounds and they just sounds rude. But for example in Ukrainian or Tatar is mutch more those sounds...






                      share|improve this answer























                      • The letter ы is frequently used in Russian and is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." There are really many Russian words with ы - бык, дышать, быть, дым, сын, etc. But it appears that for some mysterious reason the syllable кы is a sort of forbidden. I am curious as to what this reason is.

                        – Mitsuko
                        7 hours ago











                      • There's no "sound ы" in Ukrainian.

                        – Yellow Sky
                        7 hours ago















                      -1














                      Hmm, before i read that i actualy didnt notice there is no native russian word with кы. Generelly, i d say ы and э (what is frequent in vestern europa languages) are hard rought sounds and they just sounds rude. But for example in Ukrainian or Tatar is mutch more those sounds...






                      share|improve this answer























                      • The letter ы is frequently used in Russian and is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." There are really many Russian words with ы - бык, дышать, быть, дым, сын, etc. But it appears that for some mysterious reason the syllable кы is a sort of forbidden. I am curious as to what this reason is.

                        – Mitsuko
                        7 hours ago











                      • There's no "sound ы" in Ukrainian.

                        – Yellow Sky
                        7 hours ago













                      -1












                      -1








                      -1







                      Hmm, before i read that i actualy didnt notice there is no native russian word with кы. Generelly, i d say ы and э (what is frequent in vestern europa languages) are hard rought sounds and they just sounds rude. But for example in Ukrainian or Tatar is mutch more those sounds...






                      share|improve this answer













                      Hmm, before i read that i actualy didnt notice there is no native russian word with кы. Generelly, i d say ы and э (what is frequent in vestern europa languages) are hard rought sounds and they just sounds rude. But for example in Ukrainian or Tatar is mutch more those sounds...







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 7 hours ago









                      user8426627user8426627

                      1172




                      1172












                      • The letter ы is frequently used in Russian and is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." There are really many Russian words with ы - бык, дышать, быть, дым, сын, etc. But it appears that for some mysterious reason the syllable кы is a sort of forbidden. I am curious as to what this reason is.

                        – Mitsuko
                        7 hours ago











                      • There's no "sound ы" in Ukrainian.

                        – Yellow Sky
                        7 hours ago

















                      • The letter ы is frequently used in Russian and is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." There are really many Russian words with ы - бык, дышать, быть, дым, сын, etc. But it appears that for some mysterious reason the syllable кы is a sort of forbidden. I am curious as to what this reason is.

                        – Mitsuko
                        7 hours ago











                      • There's no "sound ы" in Ukrainian.

                        – Yellow Sky
                        7 hours ago
















                      The letter ы is frequently used in Russian and is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." There are really many Russian words with ы - бык, дышать, быть, дым, сын, etc. But it appears that for some mysterious reason the syllable кы is a sort of forbidden. I am curious as to what this reason is.

                      – Mitsuko
                      7 hours ago





                      The letter ы is frequently used in Russian and is contained even in most basic pronouns - "ты," "мы," and "вы." There are really many Russian words with ы - бык, дышать, быть, дым, сын, etc. But it appears that for some mysterious reason the syllable кы is a sort of forbidden. I am curious as to what this reason is.

                      – Mitsuko
                      7 hours ago













                      There's no "sound ы" in Ukrainian.

                      – Yellow Sky
                      7 hours ago





                      There's no "sound ы" in Ukrainian.

                      – Yellow Sky
                      7 hours ago

















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