A life of PhD: is it feasible?Can I live off post-docs?Is it feasible to take an unsure PhD topic?Is it feasible to pursue PhD with BE Degree/16+ years of experience, and is it worth it?Life as a master student vs PhD studentReturning to a different field in academia after industryI love pure math but detest teaching. What non-academic options do I have after finishing a PhD in Complex Algebraic Geometry?How is life as a PhD student in Germany?Getting PhD from foreign university while living in CanadaIs getting back to normal life difficult after PhD?Giving up before even starting: life without a PhDPost PHD carrer life

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A life of PhD: is it feasible?


Can I live off post-docs?Is it feasible to take an unsure PhD topic?Is it feasible to pursue PhD with BE Degree/16+ years of experience, and is it worth it?Life as a master student vs PhD studentReturning to a different field in academia after industryI love pure math but detest teaching. What non-academic options do I have after finishing a PhD in Complex Algebraic Geometry?How is life as a PhD student in Germany?Getting PhD from foreign university while living in CanadaIs getting back to normal life difficult after PhD?Giving up before even starting: life without a PhDPost PHD carrer life













11















In the next year I will (hopefully successfully) graduate from a PhD programme in pure mathematics. The location is (continental) Western Europe, the topic of the thesis is arithmetic geometry, if it matters. During my PhD experience I have found out the following things



  • being a pure math PhD student is a relatively stress-free existence for me. I can just waste all my time learning some math and occasionally writing some papers;

  • the stipend does suck but I am frugal person from a very poor country so I do not care that much (nor do I have a family to feed);

  • if I could, I would not mind spending what is left of my life in a PhD programme. In particular, I do not feel any intrinsic motivation to try to get a tenure-track position.

The question is: is it feasible for me to keep applying and getting accepted to pure math PhD programmes before I die or decide to retire? To clarify, I don't really think that I will be a problematic student; during my PhD programme, I got 3 publications accepted in reasonable journals (rank A in AustMS ranking) and I think I could maintain a similar rate of work.



Are there any "magic words" I could tell the committee that considers the applicants to improve my chances?










share|improve this question







New contributor



phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 6





    The idea of PhD programmes is that you give back more to the society than a few papers and a low CO2 footprint. Also: What if you don't get into a new program when you're fifty? You think you'll still be thought hireable in industry? Also how to you want to buy a flat and save money for your retirement days?

    – Karl
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    PhD scholarships and postdocs aren't awarded only on the basis of the likelihood that you will produce a certain amount of work during the PhD, but also on your potential to have a successful career afterwards. Being a permanent student isn't a career, plus you're taking a spot from someone who does want a career.

    – Elizabeth Henning
    7 hours ago











  • @phd You might be interested in this related question: academia.stackexchange.com/q/108709/93566

    – Erwan
    5 hours ago















11















In the next year I will (hopefully successfully) graduate from a PhD programme in pure mathematics. The location is (continental) Western Europe, the topic of the thesis is arithmetic geometry, if it matters. During my PhD experience I have found out the following things



  • being a pure math PhD student is a relatively stress-free existence for me. I can just waste all my time learning some math and occasionally writing some papers;

  • the stipend does suck but I am frugal person from a very poor country so I do not care that much (nor do I have a family to feed);

  • if I could, I would not mind spending what is left of my life in a PhD programme. In particular, I do not feel any intrinsic motivation to try to get a tenure-track position.

The question is: is it feasible for me to keep applying and getting accepted to pure math PhD programmes before I die or decide to retire? To clarify, I don't really think that I will be a problematic student; during my PhD programme, I got 3 publications accepted in reasonable journals (rank A in AustMS ranking) and I think I could maintain a similar rate of work.



Are there any "magic words" I could tell the committee that considers the applicants to improve my chances?










share|improve this question







New contributor



phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 6





    The idea of PhD programmes is that you give back more to the society than a few papers and a low CO2 footprint. Also: What if you don't get into a new program when you're fifty? You think you'll still be thought hireable in industry? Also how to you want to buy a flat and save money for your retirement days?

    – Karl
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    PhD scholarships and postdocs aren't awarded only on the basis of the likelihood that you will produce a certain amount of work during the PhD, but also on your potential to have a successful career afterwards. Being a permanent student isn't a career, plus you're taking a spot from someone who does want a career.

    – Elizabeth Henning
    7 hours ago











  • @phd You might be interested in this related question: academia.stackexchange.com/q/108709/93566

    – Erwan
    5 hours ago













11












11








11








In the next year I will (hopefully successfully) graduate from a PhD programme in pure mathematics. The location is (continental) Western Europe, the topic of the thesis is arithmetic geometry, if it matters. During my PhD experience I have found out the following things



  • being a pure math PhD student is a relatively stress-free existence for me. I can just waste all my time learning some math and occasionally writing some papers;

  • the stipend does suck but I am frugal person from a very poor country so I do not care that much (nor do I have a family to feed);

  • if I could, I would not mind spending what is left of my life in a PhD programme. In particular, I do not feel any intrinsic motivation to try to get a tenure-track position.

The question is: is it feasible for me to keep applying and getting accepted to pure math PhD programmes before I die or decide to retire? To clarify, I don't really think that I will be a problematic student; during my PhD programme, I got 3 publications accepted in reasonable journals (rank A in AustMS ranking) and I think I could maintain a similar rate of work.



Are there any "magic words" I could tell the committee that considers the applicants to improve my chances?










share|improve this question







New contributor



phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











In the next year I will (hopefully successfully) graduate from a PhD programme in pure mathematics. The location is (continental) Western Europe, the topic of the thesis is arithmetic geometry, if it matters. During my PhD experience I have found out the following things



  • being a pure math PhD student is a relatively stress-free existence for me. I can just waste all my time learning some math and occasionally writing some papers;

  • the stipend does suck but I am frugal person from a very poor country so I do not care that much (nor do I have a family to feed);

  • if I could, I would not mind spending what is left of my life in a PhD programme. In particular, I do not feel any intrinsic motivation to try to get a tenure-track position.

The question is: is it feasible for me to keep applying and getting accepted to pure math PhD programmes before I die or decide to retire? To clarify, I don't really think that I will be a problematic student; during my PhD programme, I got 3 publications accepted in reasonable journals (rank A in AustMS ranking) and I think I could maintain a similar rate of work.



Are there any "magic words" I could tell the committee that considers the applicants to improve my chances?







phd






share|improve this question







New contributor



phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question







New contributor



phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor



phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 9 hours ago









phdphd

562




562




New contributor



phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




phd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









  • 6





    The idea of PhD programmes is that you give back more to the society than a few papers and a low CO2 footprint. Also: What if you don't get into a new program when you're fifty? You think you'll still be thought hireable in industry? Also how to you want to buy a flat and save money for your retirement days?

    – Karl
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    PhD scholarships and postdocs aren't awarded only on the basis of the likelihood that you will produce a certain amount of work during the PhD, but also on your potential to have a successful career afterwards. Being a permanent student isn't a career, plus you're taking a spot from someone who does want a career.

    – Elizabeth Henning
    7 hours ago











  • @phd You might be interested in this related question: academia.stackexchange.com/q/108709/93566

    – Erwan
    5 hours ago












  • 6





    The idea of PhD programmes is that you give back more to the society than a few papers and a low CO2 footprint. Also: What if you don't get into a new program when you're fifty? You think you'll still be thought hireable in industry? Also how to you want to buy a flat and save money for your retirement days?

    – Karl
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    PhD scholarships and postdocs aren't awarded only on the basis of the likelihood that you will produce a certain amount of work during the PhD, but also on your potential to have a successful career afterwards. Being a permanent student isn't a career, plus you're taking a spot from someone who does want a career.

    – Elizabeth Henning
    7 hours ago











  • @phd You might be interested in this related question: academia.stackexchange.com/q/108709/93566

    – Erwan
    5 hours ago







6




6





The idea of PhD programmes is that you give back more to the society than a few papers and a low CO2 footprint. Also: What if you don't get into a new program when you're fifty? You think you'll still be thought hireable in industry? Also how to you want to buy a flat and save money for your retirement days?

– Karl
9 hours ago





The idea of PhD programmes is that you give back more to the society than a few papers and a low CO2 footprint. Also: What if you don't get into a new program when you're fifty? You think you'll still be thought hireable in industry? Also how to you want to buy a flat and save money for your retirement days?

– Karl
9 hours ago




2




2





PhD scholarships and postdocs aren't awarded only on the basis of the likelihood that you will produce a certain amount of work during the PhD, but also on your potential to have a successful career afterwards. Being a permanent student isn't a career, plus you're taking a spot from someone who does want a career.

– Elizabeth Henning
7 hours ago





PhD scholarships and postdocs aren't awarded only on the basis of the likelihood that you will produce a certain amount of work during the PhD, but also on your potential to have a successful career afterwards. Being a permanent student isn't a career, plus you're taking a spot from someone who does want a career.

– Elizabeth Henning
7 hours ago













@phd You might be interested in this related question: academia.stackexchange.com/q/108709/93566

– Erwan
5 hours ago





@phd You might be interested in this related question: academia.stackexchange.com/q/108709/93566

– Erwan
5 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















12














Holding a PhD in math would usually disqualify you from being admitted into a PhD program in mathematics. Even if it does not do so officially, I'd consider it next to impossible to get scholarships.



That said, being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student. However, even being a postdoc forever is not easy. Many funding sources have restrictions on how long ago your PhD may have been - after 5 years you already have fewer options, and continuing long after 10 years will see you face exclusion from manyn funding sources, as well as a strong social pressure to get a "proper" job (ie a faculty position).






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    do you know any reasons why there is time limitation on the postdoc positions? Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not? Why would the funding bodies care about how old you are academically?

    – phd
    9 hours ago






  • 5





    "Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not?" -- no, if this is a professor's only concern, they would have structured the project differently (e.g., assigning it to a permanent scientist, or hiring a sub-contractor). Post-doc positions are specifically intended to bridge between recent graduates and permanent positions, and involve a mentorship component.

    – cag51
    8 hours ago












  • "being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student" -- It is. The teaching load is higher (and it's actual teaching, not just grading/TAing), at least in the places I know of. And usually no one is explicitly expected to mentor you, though sometimes you can still get an informal mentor.

    – darij grinberg
    7 hours ago







  • 4





    @darijgrinberg: That probably really depends on the places. In the places I'm familiar with, for whatever reason, some phd students do what you call "actual teaching" while postdocs have no teaching obligations at all.

    – user109595
    6 hours ago











  • @darijgrinberg In some countries postdocs have no teaching duties, and they get some mentoring, though less than a PhD student.

    – Massimo Ortolano
    1 hour ago



















8














In the U.S. at least, maybe also Canada and Western Europe, in science (math, physics, chemistry, etc.), contrary to legend, graduate school can be a very wonderful, low-stress, idealistic time of life, if one has no partner, no children, no mortgage, no car payments... to worry about, and simple tastes.



On one hand, yes, in some ways grad students are exploited by The System (low pay), but, on the other hand, there is a short-term (5-year!?!) job security, interesting work, and no increase in (student-loan?) debt. And grad students are not terribly experience teachers nor researchers, so there is some kind of quid-pro-quo apart from the low salary.



At my university, it is possible to maintain that lifestyle and employment style by being a "teaching specialist": low pay forever, substantive uncertainty about employment from term to term, but very low stress/responsibilities otherwise. Some people do apparently deliberately choose such a lifestyle. Why not?



But, as @Karl mentions, if nothing else, what about planning for old age? Low pay-ins to pensions (and/or Social Security in the U.S., apart from other complications) will result in low pension payouts later.



Part of the point here is that aiming at "postdoc in perpetuity" almost universally at best would collapse back to "getting paid like a grad student, with no security, no pension". In particular, not getting paid nearly as well as post-docs, in any case.



So it's not that it's impossible to have that lifestyle, but that there are details and complications that would almost surely make you very unhappy later, without any option to go back in time and change things.



(And, yes, I'm sympathetic to your impulse, not being very materialistic myself, etc., but the realities of aging (not to mention having a partner and kids or other dependents, possibly including one's own parents at some point) have long ago burst that bubble for me.)






share|improve this answer























  • Also, the stress of constantly applying for new postdoc positions

    – Kai
    5 mins ago











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2 Answers
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active

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









12














Holding a PhD in math would usually disqualify you from being admitted into a PhD program in mathematics. Even if it does not do so officially, I'd consider it next to impossible to get scholarships.



That said, being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student. However, even being a postdoc forever is not easy. Many funding sources have restrictions on how long ago your PhD may have been - after 5 years you already have fewer options, and continuing long after 10 years will see you face exclusion from manyn funding sources, as well as a strong social pressure to get a "proper" job (ie a faculty position).






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    do you know any reasons why there is time limitation on the postdoc positions? Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not? Why would the funding bodies care about how old you are academically?

    – phd
    9 hours ago






  • 5





    "Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not?" -- no, if this is a professor's only concern, they would have structured the project differently (e.g., assigning it to a permanent scientist, or hiring a sub-contractor). Post-doc positions are specifically intended to bridge between recent graduates and permanent positions, and involve a mentorship component.

    – cag51
    8 hours ago












  • "being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student" -- It is. The teaching load is higher (and it's actual teaching, not just grading/TAing), at least in the places I know of. And usually no one is explicitly expected to mentor you, though sometimes you can still get an informal mentor.

    – darij grinberg
    7 hours ago







  • 4





    @darijgrinberg: That probably really depends on the places. In the places I'm familiar with, for whatever reason, some phd students do what you call "actual teaching" while postdocs have no teaching obligations at all.

    – user109595
    6 hours ago











  • @darijgrinberg In some countries postdocs have no teaching duties, and they get some mentoring, though less than a PhD student.

    – Massimo Ortolano
    1 hour ago
















12














Holding a PhD in math would usually disqualify you from being admitted into a PhD program in mathematics. Even if it does not do so officially, I'd consider it next to impossible to get scholarships.



That said, being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student. However, even being a postdoc forever is not easy. Many funding sources have restrictions on how long ago your PhD may have been - after 5 years you already have fewer options, and continuing long after 10 years will see you face exclusion from manyn funding sources, as well as a strong social pressure to get a "proper" job (ie a faculty position).






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    do you know any reasons why there is time limitation on the postdoc positions? Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not? Why would the funding bodies care about how old you are academically?

    – phd
    9 hours ago






  • 5





    "Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not?" -- no, if this is a professor's only concern, they would have structured the project differently (e.g., assigning it to a permanent scientist, or hiring a sub-contractor). Post-doc positions are specifically intended to bridge between recent graduates and permanent positions, and involve a mentorship component.

    – cag51
    8 hours ago












  • "being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student" -- It is. The teaching load is higher (and it's actual teaching, not just grading/TAing), at least in the places I know of. And usually no one is explicitly expected to mentor you, though sometimes you can still get an informal mentor.

    – darij grinberg
    7 hours ago







  • 4





    @darijgrinberg: That probably really depends on the places. In the places I'm familiar with, for whatever reason, some phd students do what you call "actual teaching" while postdocs have no teaching obligations at all.

    – user109595
    6 hours ago











  • @darijgrinberg In some countries postdocs have no teaching duties, and they get some mentoring, though less than a PhD student.

    – Massimo Ortolano
    1 hour ago














12












12








12







Holding a PhD in math would usually disqualify you from being admitted into a PhD program in mathematics. Even if it does not do so officially, I'd consider it next to impossible to get scholarships.



That said, being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student. However, even being a postdoc forever is not easy. Many funding sources have restrictions on how long ago your PhD may have been - after 5 years you already have fewer options, and continuing long after 10 years will see you face exclusion from manyn funding sources, as well as a strong social pressure to get a "proper" job (ie a faculty position).






share|improve this answer













Holding a PhD in math would usually disqualify you from being admitted into a PhD program in mathematics. Even if it does not do so officially, I'd consider it next to impossible to get scholarships.



That said, being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student. However, even being a postdoc forever is not easy. Many funding sources have restrictions on how long ago your PhD may have been - after 5 years you already have fewer options, and continuing long after 10 years will see you face exclusion from manyn funding sources, as well as a strong social pressure to get a "proper" job (ie a faculty position).







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 9 hours ago









ArnoArno

14k34463




14k34463







  • 1





    do you know any reasons why there is time limitation on the postdoc positions? Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not? Why would the funding bodies care about how old you are academically?

    – phd
    9 hours ago






  • 5





    "Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not?" -- no, if this is a professor's only concern, they would have structured the project differently (e.g., assigning it to a permanent scientist, or hiring a sub-contractor). Post-doc positions are specifically intended to bridge between recent graduates and permanent positions, and involve a mentorship component.

    – cag51
    8 hours ago












  • "being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student" -- It is. The teaching load is higher (and it's actual teaching, not just grading/TAing), at least in the places I know of. And usually no one is explicitly expected to mentor you, though sometimes you can still get an informal mentor.

    – darij grinberg
    7 hours ago







  • 4





    @darijgrinberg: That probably really depends on the places. In the places I'm familiar with, for whatever reason, some phd students do what you call "actual teaching" while postdocs have no teaching obligations at all.

    – user109595
    6 hours ago











  • @darijgrinberg In some countries postdocs have no teaching duties, and they get some mentoring, though less than a PhD student.

    – Massimo Ortolano
    1 hour ago













  • 1





    do you know any reasons why there is time limitation on the postdoc positions? Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not? Why would the funding bodies care about how old you are academically?

    – phd
    9 hours ago






  • 5





    "Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not?" -- no, if this is a professor's only concern, they would have structured the project differently (e.g., assigning it to a permanent scientist, or hiring a sub-contractor). Post-doc positions are specifically intended to bridge between recent graduates and permanent positions, and involve a mentorship component.

    – cag51
    8 hours ago












  • "being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student" -- It is. The teaching load is higher (and it's actual teaching, not just grading/TAing), at least in the places I know of. And usually no one is explicitly expected to mentor you, though sometimes you can still get an informal mentor.

    – darij grinberg
    7 hours ago







  • 4





    @darijgrinberg: That probably really depends on the places. In the places I'm familiar with, for whatever reason, some phd students do what you call "actual teaching" while postdocs have no teaching obligations at all.

    – user109595
    6 hours ago











  • @darijgrinberg In some countries postdocs have no teaching duties, and they get some mentoring, though less than a PhD student.

    – Massimo Ortolano
    1 hour ago








1




1





do you know any reasons why there is time limitation on the postdoc positions? Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not? Why would the funding bodies care about how old you are academically?

– phd
9 hours ago





do you know any reasons why there is time limitation on the postdoc positions? Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not? Why would the funding bodies care about how old you are academically?

– phd
9 hours ago




5




5





"Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not?" -- no, if this is a professor's only concern, they would have structured the project differently (e.g., assigning it to a permanent scientist, or hiring a sub-contractor). Post-doc positions are specifically intended to bridge between recent graduates and permanent positions, and involve a mentorship component.

– cag51
8 hours ago






"Doesn't it only matter whether the research gets done or not?" -- no, if this is a professor's only concern, they would have structured the project differently (e.g., assigning it to a permanent scientist, or hiring a sub-contractor). Post-doc positions are specifically intended to bridge between recent graduates and permanent positions, and involve a mentorship component.

– cag51
8 hours ago














"being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student" -- It is. The teaching load is higher (and it's actual teaching, not just grading/TAing), at least in the places I know of. And usually no one is explicitly expected to mentor you, though sometimes you can still get an informal mentor.

– darij grinberg
7 hours ago






"being a postdoc in math is not really much different from being a PhD student" -- It is. The teaching load is higher (and it's actual teaching, not just grading/TAing), at least in the places I know of. And usually no one is explicitly expected to mentor you, though sometimes you can still get an informal mentor.

– darij grinberg
7 hours ago





4




4





@darijgrinberg: That probably really depends on the places. In the places I'm familiar with, for whatever reason, some phd students do what you call "actual teaching" while postdocs have no teaching obligations at all.

– user109595
6 hours ago





@darijgrinberg: That probably really depends on the places. In the places I'm familiar with, for whatever reason, some phd students do what you call "actual teaching" while postdocs have no teaching obligations at all.

– user109595
6 hours ago













@darijgrinberg In some countries postdocs have no teaching duties, and they get some mentoring, though less than a PhD student.

– Massimo Ortolano
1 hour ago






@darijgrinberg In some countries postdocs have no teaching duties, and they get some mentoring, though less than a PhD student.

– Massimo Ortolano
1 hour ago












8














In the U.S. at least, maybe also Canada and Western Europe, in science (math, physics, chemistry, etc.), contrary to legend, graduate school can be a very wonderful, low-stress, idealistic time of life, if one has no partner, no children, no mortgage, no car payments... to worry about, and simple tastes.



On one hand, yes, in some ways grad students are exploited by The System (low pay), but, on the other hand, there is a short-term (5-year!?!) job security, interesting work, and no increase in (student-loan?) debt. And grad students are not terribly experience teachers nor researchers, so there is some kind of quid-pro-quo apart from the low salary.



At my university, it is possible to maintain that lifestyle and employment style by being a "teaching specialist": low pay forever, substantive uncertainty about employment from term to term, but very low stress/responsibilities otherwise. Some people do apparently deliberately choose such a lifestyle. Why not?



But, as @Karl mentions, if nothing else, what about planning for old age? Low pay-ins to pensions (and/or Social Security in the U.S., apart from other complications) will result in low pension payouts later.



Part of the point here is that aiming at "postdoc in perpetuity" almost universally at best would collapse back to "getting paid like a grad student, with no security, no pension". In particular, not getting paid nearly as well as post-docs, in any case.



So it's not that it's impossible to have that lifestyle, but that there are details and complications that would almost surely make you very unhappy later, without any option to go back in time and change things.



(And, yes, I'm sympathetic to your impulse, not being very materialistic myself, etc., but the realities of aging (not to mention having a partner and kids or other dependents, possibly including one's own parents at some point) have long ago burst that bubble for me.)






share|improve this answer























  • Also, the stress of constantly applying for new postdoc positions

    – Kai
    5 mins ago















8














In the U.S. at least, maybe also Canada and Western Europe, in science (math, physics, chemistry, etc.), contrary to legend, graduate school can be a very wonderful, low-stress, idealistic time of life, if one has no partner, no children, no mortgage, no car payments... to worry about, and simple tastes.



On one hand, yes, in some ways grad students are exploited by The System (low pay), but, on the other hand, there is a short-term (5-year!?!) job security, interesting work, and no increase in (student-loan?) debt. And grad students are not terribly experience teachers nor researchers, so there is some kind of quid-pro-quo apart from the low salary.



At my university, it is possible to maintain that lifestyle and employment style by being a "teaching specialist": low pay forever, substantive uncertainty about employment from term to term, but very low stress/responsibilities otherwise. Some people do apparently deliberately choose such a lifestyle. Why not?



But, as @Karl mentions, if nothing else, what about planning for old age? Low pay-ins to pensions (and/or Social Security in the U.S., apart from other complications) will result in low pension payouts later.



Part of the point here is that aiming at "postdoc in perpetuity" almost universally at best would collapse back to "getting paid like a grad student, with no security, no pension". In particular, not getting paid nearly as well as post-docs, in any case.



So it's not that it's impossible to have that lifestyle, but that there are details and complications that would almost surely make you very unhappy later, without any option to go back in time and change things.



(And, yes, I'm sympathetic to your impulse, not being very materialistic myself, etc., but the realities of aging (not to mention having a partner and kids or other dependents, possibly including one's own parents at some point) have long ago burst that bubble for me.)






share|improve this answer























  • Also, the stress of constantly applying for new postdoc positions

    – Kai
    5 mins ago













8












8








8







In the U.S. at least, maybe also Canada and Western Europe, in science (math, physics, chemistry, etc.), contrary to legend, graduate school can be a very wonderful, low-stress, idealistic time of life, if one has no partner, no children, no mortgage, no car payments... to worry about, and simple tastes.



On one hand, yes, in some ways grad students are exploited by The System (low pay), but, on the other hand, there is a short-term (5-year!?!) job security, interesting work, and no increase in (student-loan?) debt. And grad students are not terribly experience teachers nor researchers, so there is some kind of quid-pro-quo apart from the low salary.



At my university, it is possible to maintain that lifestyle and employment style by being a "teaching specialist": low pay forever, substantive uncertainty about employment from term to term, but very low stress/responsibilities otherwise. Some people do apparently deliberately choose such a lifestyle. Why not?



But, as @Karl mentions, if nothing else, what about planning for old age? Low pay-ins to pensions (and/or Social Security in the U.S., apart from other complications) will result in low pension payouts later.



Part of the point here is that aiming at "postdoc in perpetuity" almost universally at best would collapse back to "getting paid like a grad student, with no security, no pension". In particular, not getting paid nearly as well as post-docs, in any case.



So it's not that it's impossible to have that lifestyle, but that there are details and complications that would almost surely make you very unhappy later, without any option to go back in time and change things.



(And, yes, I'm sympathetic to your impulse, not being very materialistic myself, etc., but the realities of aging (not to mention having a partner and kids or other dependents, possibly including one's own parents at some point) have long ago burst that bubble for me.)






share|improve this answer













In the U.S. at least, maybe also Canada and Western Europe, in science (math, physics, chemistry, etc.), contrary to legend, graduate school can be a very wonderful, low-stress, idealistic time of life, if one has no partner, no children, no mortgage, no car payments... to worry about, and simple tastes.



On one hand, yes, in some ways grad students are exploited by The System (low pay), but, on the other hand, there is a short-term (5-year!?!) job security, interesting work, and no increase in (student-loan?) debt. And grad students are not terribly experience teachers nor researchers, so there is some kind of quid-pro-quo apart from the low salary.



At my university, it is possible to maintain that lifestyle and employment style by being a "teaching specialist": low pay forever, substantive uncertainty about employment from term to term, but very low stress/responsibilities otherwise. Some people do apparently deliberately choose such a lifestyle. Why not?



But, as @Karl mentions, if nothing else, what about planning for old age? Low pay-ins to pensions (and/or Social Security in the U.S., apart from other complications) will result in low pension payouts later.



Part of the point here is that aiming at "postdoc in perpetuity" almost universally at best would collapse back to "getting paid like a grad student, with no security, no pension". In particular, not getting paid nearly as well as post-docs, in any case.



So it's not that it's impossible to have that lifestyle, but that there are details and complications that would almost surely make you very unhappy later, without any option to go back in time and change things.



(And, yes, I'm sympathetic to your impulse, not being very materialistic myself, etc., but the realities of aging (not to mention having a partner and kids or other dependents, possibly including one's own parents at some point) have long ago burst that bubble for me.)







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 7 hours ago









paul garrettpaul garrett

51.6k495214




51.6k495214












  • Also, the stress of constantly applying for new postdoc positions

    – Kai
    5 mins ago

















  • Also, the stress of constantly applying for new postdoc positions

    – Kai
    5 mins ago
















Also, the stress of constantly applying for new postdoc positions

– Kai
5 mins ago





Also, the stress of constantly applying for new postdoc positions

– Kai
5 mins ago










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