Humans meet a distant alien species. How do they standardize? - Units of MeasureIn Space, how can they hear me scream?How would two alien races decipher each others language?If I had an alien race, how would they interpret our numerical characters as being numbers?How can humans and aliens reliably communicate?How fast can a species communicate using only tapping?How to differentiate alien voices apart?How could an insectoid race communicate with humans?How would an ethereal species that doesn't abide by logic or reason interact with humans?How would you alert an alien crew that they are in imminent danger?How to facilitate inter-species communication with math?

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Humans meet a distant alien species. How do they standardize? - Units of Measure

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Humans meet a distant alien species. How do they standardize? - Units of Measure


In Space, how can they hear me scream?How would two alien races decipher each others language?If I had an alien race, how would they interpret our numerical characters as being numbers?How can humans and aliens reliably communicate?How fast can a species communicate using only tapping?How to differentiate alien voices apart?How could an insectoid race communicate with humans?How would an ethereal species that doesn't abide by logic or reason interact with humans?How would you alert an alien crew that they are in imminent danger?How to facilitate inter-species communication with math?













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$begingroup$


Humans meet some distant alien species. They are mutual first contacts. After learning the languages of each other, they begin to share scientific and engineering knowledge with one another, but here's the problem: given our separate lines of evolution and scientific development, we have different systems of units, computer architectures, character encodings, names for the same mathematical concepts, mathematical notation (including default numeric base), etc...



We have to standardize or coordinate- and this question will begin with units of measure. We can certainly use unit conversions, but this becomes a complicated matter when working on e.g. spacecraft, as past human experience has shown that bad things happen when engineers are using two different units of measure for different components.



The problem here is there are a lot of units and neither species can really strongarm their way into making the other conform to their units (assume both have a well-defined and self-consistent system like SI, so neither is objectively superior). They have to come to a compromise somehow.



How do two independent interstellar species come to agree on a system of units?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Any chance you can tell us a little more about them, like what modular system they might use - if they use one, or what they might use instead. Without knowing what the differences are between our species, the question becomes too broad and speculative. At present, I'm not sure what the actual question is.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What would be wrong with a simple conversion chart?
    $endgroup$
    – IT Alex
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex for most use cases, nothing. It doesn't become an issue unless both species are working together on an engineering effort, in which case bad assumptions might be made about units that lead to disastrous consequences.
    $endgroup$
    – Beefster
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex rounding errors. An inch is not exactly 2.5cm, nor is it exactly 2.54cm. What each unit is based on can be calculated down to many decimal points, and there is no clear way of knowing tolerances in every case. If I need a car axle that is 3 inches in diameter, 7.5cm may do, but if I need a plutonium enrichment chamber that is 3 inches in diameter, then a 7.5cm chamber may be disterious.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki: An American inch is by definition absolutely exactly 25.4 mm, at least since the 1950s. All American nostalgic units of measurement (fluid and rigid ounces, grains, pounds, furlongs, firkins, hogsheads etc.) have precise exact definitions in SI units.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    7 hours ago
















2












$begingroup$


Humans meet some distant alien species. They are mutual first contacts. After learning the languages of each other, they begin to share scientific and engineering knowledge with one another, but here's the problem: given our separate lines of evolution and scientific development, we have different systems of units, computer architectures, character encodings, names for the same mathematical concepts, mathematical notation (including default numeric base), etc...



We have to standardize or coordinate- and this question will begin with units of measure. We can certainly use unit conversions, but this becomes a complicated matter when working on e.g. spacecraft, as past human experience has shown that bad things happen when engineers are using two different units of measure for different components.



The problem here is there are a lot of units and neither species can really strongarm their way into making the other conform to their units (assume both have a well-defined and self-consistent system like SI, so neither is objectively superior). They have to come to a compromise somehow.



How do two independent interstellar species come to agree on a system of units?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Any chance you can tell us a little more about them, like what modular system they might use - if they use one, or what they might use instead. Without knowing what the differences are between our species, the question becomes too broad and speculative. At present, I'm not sure what the actual question is.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What would be wrong with a simple conversion chart?
    $endgroup$
    – IT Alex
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex for most use cases, nothing. It doesn't become an issue unless both species are working together on an engineering effort, in which case bad assumptions might be made about units that lead to disastrous consequences.
    $endgroup$
    – Beefster
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex rounding errors. An inch is not exactly 2.5cm, nor is it exactly 2.54cm. What each unit is based on can be calculated down to many decimal points, and there is no clear way of knowing tolerances in every case. If I need a car axle that is 3 inches in diameter, 7.5cm may do, but if I need a plutonium enrichment chamber that is 3 inches in diameter, then a 7.5cm chamber may be disterious.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki: An American inch is by definition absolutely exactly 25.4 mm, at least since the 1950s. All American nostalgic units of measurement (fluid and rigid ounces, grains, pounds, furlongs, firkins, hogsheads etc.) have precise exact definitions in SI units.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    7 hours ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$


Humans meet some distant alien species. They are mutual first contacts. After learning the languages of each other, they begin to share scientific and engineering knowledge with one another, but here's the problem: given our separate lines of evolution and scientific development, we have different systems of units, computer architectures, character encodings, names for the same mathematical concepts, mathematical notation (including default numeric base), etc...



We have to standardize or coordinate- and this question will begin with units of measure. We can certainly use unit conversions, but this becomes a complicated matter when working on e.g. spacecraft, as past human experience has shown that bad things happen when engineers are using two different units of measure for different components.



The problem here is there are a lot of units and neither species can really strongarm their way into making the other conform to their units (assume both have a well-defined and self-consistent system like SI, so neither is objectively superior). They have to come to a compromise somehow.



How do two independent interstellar species come to agree on a system of units?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




Humans meet some distant alien species. They are mutual first contacts. After learning the languages of each other, they begin to share scientific and engineering knowledge with one another, but here's the problem: given our separate lines of evolution and scientific development, we have different systems of units, computer architectures, character encodings, names for the same mathematical concepts, mathematical notation (including default numeric base), etc...



We have to standardize or coordinate- and this question will begin with units of measure. We can certainly use unit conversions, but this becomes a complicated matter when working on e.g. spacecraft, as past human experience has shown that bad things happen when engineers are using two different units of measure for different components.



The problem here is there are a lot of units and neither species can really strongarm their way into making the other conform to their units (assume both have a well-defined and self-consistent system like SI, so neither is objectively superior). They have to come to a compromise somehow.



How do two independent interstellar species come to agree on a system of units?







communication interstellar






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









BeefsterBeefster

565415




565415











  • $begingroup$
    Any chance you can tell us a little more about them, like what modular system they might use - if they use one, or what they might use instead. Without knowing what the differences are between our species, the question becomes too broad and speculative. At present, I'm not sure what the actual question is.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What would be wrong with a simple conversion chart?
    $endgroup$
    – IT Alex
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex for most use cases, nothing. It doesn't become an issue unless both species are working together on an engineering effort, in which case bad assumptions might be made about units that lead to disastrous consequences.
    $endgroup$
    – Beefster
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex rounding errors. An inch is not exactly 2.5cm, nor is it exactly 2.54cm. What each unit is based on can be calculated down to many decimal points, and there is no clear way of knowing tolerances in every case. If I need a car axle that is 3 inches in diameter, 7.5cm may do, but if I need a plutonium enrichment chamber that is 3 inches in diameter, then a 7.5cm chamber may be disterious.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki: An American inch is by definition absolutely exactly 25.4 mm, at least since the 1950s. All American nostalgic units of measurement (fluid and rigid ounces, grains, pounds, furlongs, firkins, hogsheads etc.) have precise exact definitions in SI units.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    7 hours ago

















  • $begingroup$
    Any chance you can tell us a little more about them, like what modular system they might use - if they use one, or what they might use instead. Without knowing what the differences are between our species, the question becomes too broad and speculative. At present, I'm not sure what the actual question is.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    8 hours ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What would be wrong with a simple conversion chart?
    $endgroup$
    – IT Alex
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex for most use cases, nothing. It doesn't become an issue unless both species are working together on an engineering effort, in which case bad assumptions might be made about units that lead to disastrous consequences.
    $endgroup$
    – Beefster
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ITAlex rounding errors. An inch is not exactly 2.5cm, nor is it exactly 2.54cm. What each unit is based on can be calculated down to many decimal points, and there is no clear way of knowing tolerances in every case. If I need a car axle that is 3 inches in diameter, 7.5cm may do, but if I need a plutonium enrichment chamber that is 3 inches in diameter, then a 7.5cm chamber may be disterious.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki: An American inch is by definition absolutely exactly 25.4 mm, at least since the 1950s. All American nostalgic units of measurement (fluid and rigid ounces, grains, pounds, furlongs, firkins, hogsheads etc.) have precise exact definitions in SI units.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    7 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Any chance you can tell us a little more about them, like what modular system they might use - if they use one, or what they might use instead. Without knowing what the differences are between our species, the question becomes too broad and speculative. At present, I'm not sure what the actual question is.
$endgroup$
– Hoyle's ghost
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
Any chance you can tell us a little more about them, like what modular system they might use - if they use one, or what they might use instead. Without knowing what the differences are between our species, the question becomes too broad and speculative. At present, I'm not sure what the actual question is.
$endgroup$
– Hoyle's ghost
8 hours ago





2




2




$begingroup$
What would be wrong with a simple conversion chart?
$endgroup$
– IT Alex
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
What would be wrong with a simple conversion chart?
$endgroup$
– IT Alex
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@ITAlex for most use cases, nothing. It doesn't become an issue unless both species are working together on an engineering effort, in which case bad assumptions might be made about units that lead to disastrous consequences.
$endgroup$
– Beefster
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
@ITAlex for most use cases, nothing. It doesn't become an issue unless both species are working together on an engineering effort, in which case bad assumptions might be made about units that lead to disastrous consequences.
$endgroup$
– Beefster
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
@ITAlex rounding errors. An inch is not exactly 2.5cm, nor is it exactly 2.54cm. What each unit is based on can be calculated down to many decimal points, and there is no clear way of knowing tolerances in every case. If I need a car axle that is 3 inches in diameter, 7.5cm may do, but if I need a plutonium enrichment chamber that is 3 inches in diameter, then a 7.5cm chamber may be disterious.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
@ITAlex rounding errors. An inch is not exactly 2.5cm, nor is it exactly 2.54cm. What each unit is based on can be calculated down to many decimal points, and there is no clear way of knowing tolerances in every case. If I need a car axle that is 3 inches in diameter, 7.5cm may do, but if I need a plutonium enrichment chamber that is 3 inches in diameter, then a 7.5cm chamber may be disterious.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
7 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: An American inch is by definition absolutely exactly 25.4 mm, at least since the 1950s. All American nostalgic units of measurement (fluid and rigid ounces, grains, pounds, furlongs, firkins, hogsheads etc.) have precise exact definitions in SI units.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
7 hours ago





$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki: An American inch is by definition absolutely exactly 25.4 mm, at least since the 1950s. All American nostalgic units of measurement (fluid and rigid ounces, grains, pounds, furlongs, firkins, hogsheads etc.) have precise exact definitions in SI units.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
7 hours ago











5 Answers
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In all likelihood, there is no forcing one society to adopt the other's system, instead, people would likely adopt a local market approach to measurements. Let's say you are on Earth building spaceship parts that will be used to make ships on Farawaynos, you manufacture to the other society's system of measurements. If they want to sell parts to Earth, they need to manufacture to the metric system of measurements. This is basically the same way that we do things now with the Metric and Imperial systems.



The only way you will probably see a standardisation is if one society is much more influential than the other. If Humans have 20 billion people across 5 planets and the Farawayans have 20 trillion people across thousands of planets, the humans would likely be strong-armed into accepting that the alien societies unit of measurement is more reasonable for standardisation. Or, if one society conquered the other, you'd likely see the loser's system be replaced.



Another option would be for the societies to agree on a new "interstellar" standard that is different than both nation's customary systems. If we use a base-10 metric derived from our own planetary motions and properties of water, and they use a base-6 metric derived from their planetary motions and properties of methane, we might agree that both systems have their flaws and adopt a new base-16 standard derived from the properties of our galaxy's central black hole and hydrogen. Chances are, both societies would be slow to adopt this as THE standard, but if all interplanetary trade becomes based on this, eventually, societies would shift to accept it as the more useful metric.






share|improve this answer











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  • $begingroup$
    Makes a lot of sense. The persistence of imperial units in the US (maybe other countries), possibly deserves an explanation at some point (I don't suggest that it should be in this answer necessarily). +1
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    7 hours ago










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    That was definitely my starting thought for this solution. Edited to include this though as an actual example.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago










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    @Nosajimiki -- Base 6 is superior to Base 10. It has the same number of prime factors, an easier-to-memorize multiplication table, and its division yields non-repeating "decimals" for a higher fraction of modest denominators.
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    7 hours ago











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    @Jasper Yet humans rejected base-6 thousands of years ago because the numbers took too long to write. I suggest Base-16 as a power of 2 stored in a power of 2 bits which gives it a number of advantages when optimising computer calculations around it. The point was not to suggest one system as more or less flawed, but that a compromise may be reached about finding a new and better system that both parties can agree upon.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    6 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki -- European societies' use of Base 10 (as opposed to Base 6) has nothing to do with writing. Proto-Indo-European used Base 10 long before any of the Indo-European tribes were part of civilizations that had writing.
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    – Jasper
    6 hours ago


















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  • The way the US is really metric. There are the scientific (and legal) units and then there are customary units which are defined in terms of the scientific units.

  • The common scientific units are based on powers of two and naturally-occuring constants.





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  • $begingroup$
    How are distances, weights, light intensity, etc. based on powers of two? Or what other common units do you mean?
    $endgroup$
    – Soan
    8 hours ago










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    I think he means as what system would take precedent. We use base-10 because we have 10 fingers to count on. If the aliens had a base-2 or NoC system, then, thiers would be more logical as a universal standard since there will be shared logical reasons for these systems between races.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






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    We are not! We are not! WAAAAAH! We are not metric! Just because I have to have whole sets of metric wrenches and socket sets (It's because the cars aren't built in the U.S. anymore! Right? AmIRight? It's not our fault!) and people in hardware stores keep asking for metric wood screws! Say it ain't so! (*puts hands over ears*) We are not metric! We are not metric! (Where's a paper bag! quick!)
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    7 hours ago







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    @JBH -- My car was built in the U.S. to Japanese standards. And good luck with the hiccups:)
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    7 hours ago










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    This could be a really good answer is it was expanded, like giving a few examples of naturally occuring constants. because the link is not helpful.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    7 hours ago


















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This isn't as hard as it might seem



It would be harder to work out the semiotics than the conversion and/or adoption. After that it's just software. Why?



Because a substantial amount of science involves relationships. For example, the value of 𝜋 is unitless (3.14159...) That relationship would be the same no matter what mathematical base was used, or what standard of length, or even what the alien's definition of base units like meters or "seconds" (base unit of time) are.



Consequently, once you've figured out how to represent 𝜋 in both languages (and every other unitless relationship number, like the proton-to-electron mass ratio or the Planck constant, (see more)), everything else is basically algebra.1



As for whose version of the math/semiotics wins out, that has more to do with who's the bigger gorilla. If we have an empire of ten worlds and they have an empire of 100, the odds are very good that their systems will win out. In other words, we may use our systems internally, but anything that touches both species will also have their system.



Like o.m. said, it's like the U.S. being metric. We hate it, but every can of soda has both ounces and liters printed on the can. Eventually a generation will be born who wonders what an ounce is.... But not today. 😆




1Or calculus. It's either going to be high-school trivial or PhD hard ... but it'll still just be an issue of software.






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  • $begingroup$
    This actually makes me think of writing software to handle datetimes. Dates and times are SUPER unstandardised, there are dozens ways to write the same datetime, sometimes you need it all the way down to microsecond, sometimes years will suffice. sometimes you write 5/28/2019, sometimes you write 2019-5-28. Sometimes you have Daylights savings time, sometimes you don't, but we write software to figure all that out. If we can write software to get around these incongruencies, then making our digital media automatically translate km to kellicam should be trivial.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    But.... Pi assumes the same spatial geometry (or rather the same shortcut as represented by Euclid), does the question make such assertions? Sure, we must have a point of contact, but the lack of specific assertions make the question as you said either trivial or ridiculously hard. Since the question offers no specific direction, one must assume that your answer fits best, lest Occam's razor get blunt - but I can't help but think - Hickam's dictum states: "A man can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases."
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Hoyle'sghost, the moment the OP said "units of measure" he opened up the discussion to every unitless mathematical constant in the universe. (Nice Hickam quote, BTW). To be fair, the OP could have a world/universe where it's impossible to actually draw a circle - but he did say "humans." Sounds like our universe to me, and I think it's a bit pedantic to argue, "that might not be true."
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki, that's a great example. Almost every computer today has the concept of "local time" because we humans have already had to overcome this problem - just in a simpler context.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JBH My point was more along the lines of - why would linear mathematics be familiar to a super-advanced species (if they are that... unspecified) , in Earth-schools fluctions are not routinely taught as a pre-cursor to calculus, why would the aliens even know about Pi?
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    6 hours ago



















0












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They might simply choose to use Planck units, which are all ratios of various physical constants of nature (like the speed of light and planck's constant), which implies that if you express the constants of physics in these units, they all have a numerical value of 1--for example, in these units the speed of light is 1 (planck length)/(planck time), and Planck's constant is 1 (planck mass)*(planck length^2)/(planck time).



The disadvantage of these units is that ordinary human-scale phenomena will have huge values, for example 10^35 planck lengths is about 1.6 meters and 10^44 planck times is about 5.4 seconds, but you could just invent special names for large multiples, for example 1 YGlengths could be defined as 10^33 plank lengths (where Y and G stand for yotta and giga) which would be about 1.6 centimeters, and 1 YZtimes (where Y and Z stand for yotta and zetta) could be defined as 10^45 planck times or about 54 seconds.






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    0












    $begingroup$

    Humans have already solved this problem.



    There are many useful universal numbers that can be used. mostly atomic phenomenon such as the mass of X atoms of a particular isotope or natural atomic oscillation. You may want to checkout the current definitions of all SI units. which are defined in such as way as to make them universal. That is they are based on universal constants like the transition states of cesium atoms.



    Second: The duration of 9192631770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom.



    Meter: The distance travelled by light in vacuum in
    1/299792458 second.



    Kilogram: The kilogram is defined by setting the Planck constant h exactly to 6.62607015×1034 J⋅s (J = kg⋅m2⋅s2), given the definitions of the metre and the second.



    Mole:The amount of substance of exactly 6.02214076×1023 elementary entities.



    Kelvin: fixed numerical value of the Boltzmann constant k to 1.380649×1023 J/K, (J = kg⋅m2/s2), given the definition of the kilogram, the metre and the second.



    Ampere:The flow of 1/1.602176634×1019
    times the elementary charge e per second.



    Candela: The luminous intensity, in a given direction, of a source that emits monochromatic radiation of frequency 5.4×1014 hertz and that has a radiant intensity in that direction of 1/683 watt per steradian.



    The individual numbers can be derived by any civilization you can communicate with. they might not have them but as long as you can communicate with them they can match them and use them as common unit of measure. Alternatively the two species can come up with a mutual set of units defined in similiar ways.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Please fix your superscripts. :)
      $endgroup$
      – a CVn
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @aCVn I would but I have no idea how.
      $endgroup$
      – John
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @John -- All of these examples have arbitrary-seeming constants with many digits of precision. This means that it is very unlikely that another civilization would coincidentally come up with the same constants -- or even be willing to think that these particular values are particularly good choices.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @John -- If expressed using short (but still accurate) constants, the definitions are still within rounding error of 40,000,000 meters for the polar circumference of the Earth at sea level, 86,400 seconds in Earth's solar day, et cetera. These definitions show where (and when, on a geological timescale) they were developed.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Jasper any civilization you are capable of communicating with across interstellar distances can match that precision. I never said they would come up with the same units, but the units are based on universal constants, so said civilization can use them with reliable accuracy.
      $endgroup$
      – John
      3 hours ago












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    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

    votes








    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    6












    $begingroup$

    In all likelihood, there is no forcing one society to adopt the other's system, instead, people would likely adopt a local market approach to measurements. Let's say you are on Earth building spaceship parts that will be used to make ships on Farawaynos, you manufacture to the other society's system of measurements. If they want to sell parts to Earth, they need to manufacture to the metric system of measurements. This is basically the same way that we do things now with the Metric and Imperial systems.



    The only way you will probably see a standardisation is if one society is much more influential than the other. If Humans have 20 billion people across 5 planets and the Farawayans have 20 trillion people across thousands of planets, the humans would likely be strong-armed into accepting that the alien societies unit of measurement is more reasonable for standardisation. Or, if one society conquered the other, you'd likely see the loser's system be replaced.



    Another option would be for the societies to agree on a new "interstellar" standard that is different than both nation's customary systems. If we use a base-10 metric derived from our own planetary motions and properties of water, and they use a base-6 metric derived from their planetary motions and properties of methane, we might agree that both systems have their flaws and adopt a new base-16 standard derived from the properties of our galaxy's central black hole and hydrogen. Chances are, both societies would be slow to adopt this as THE standard, but if all interplanetary trade becomes based on this, eventually, societies would shift to accept it as the more useful metric.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Makes a lot of sense. The persistence of imperial units in the US (maybe other countries), possibly deserves an explanation at some point (I don't suggest that it should be in this answer necessarily). +1
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      That was definitely my starting thought for this solution. Edited to include this though as an actual example.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- Base 6 is superior to Base 10. It has the same number of prime factors, an easier-to-memorize multiplication table, and its division yields non-repeating "decimals" for a higher fraction of modest denominators.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @Jasper Yet humans rejected base-6 thousands of years ago because the numbers took too long to write. I suggest Base-16 as a power of 2 stored in a power of 2 bits which gives it a number of advantages when optimising computer calculations around it. The point was not to suggest one system as more or less flawed, but that a compromise may be reached about finding a new and better system that both parties can agree upon.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- European societies' use of Base 10 (as opposed to Base 6) has nothing to do with writing. Proto-Indo-European used Base 10 long before any of the Indo-European tribes were part of civilizations that had writing.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      6 hours ago















    6












    $begingroup$

    In all likelihood, there is no forcing one society to adopt the other's system, instead, people would likely adopt a local market approach to measurements. Let's say you are on Earth building spaceship parts that will be used to make ships on Farawaynos, you manufacture to the other society's system of measurements. If they want to sell parts to Earth, they need to manufacture to the metric system of measurements. This is basically the same way that we do things now with the Metric and Imperial systems.



    The only way you will probably see a standardisation is if one society is much more influential than the other. If Humans have 20 billion people across 5 planets and the Farawayans have 20 trillion people across thousands of planets, the humans would likely be strong-armed into accepting that the alien societies unit of measurement is more reasonable for standardisation. Or, if one society conquered the other, you'd likely see the loser's system be replaced.



    Another option would be for the societies to agree on a new "interstellar" standard that is different than both nation's customary systems. If we use a base-10 metric derived from our own planetary motions and properties of water, and they use a base-6 metric derived from their planetary motions and properties of methane, we might agree that both systems have their flaws and adopt a new base-16 standard derived from the properties of our galaxy's central black hole and hydrogen. Chances are, both societies would be slow to adopt this as THE standard, but if all interplanetary trade becomes based on this, eventually, societies would shift to accept it as the more useful metric.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Makes a lot of sense. The persistence of imperial units in the US (maybe other countries), possibly deserves an explanation at some point (I don't suggest that it should be in this answer necessarily). +1
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      That was definitely my starting thought for this solution. Edited to include this though as an actual example.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- Base 6 is superior to Base 10. It has the same number of prime factors, an easier-to-memorize multiplication table, and its division yields non-repeating "decimals" for a higher fraction of modest denominators.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @Jasper Yet humans rejected base-6 thousands of years ago because the numbers took too long to write. I suggest Base-16 as a power of 2 stored in a power of 2 bits which gives it a number of advantages when optimising computer calculations around it. The point was not to suggest one system as more or less flawed, but that a compromise may be reached about finding a new and better system that both parties can agree upon.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- European societies' use of Base 10 (as opposed to Base 6) has nothing to do with writing. Proto-Indo-European used Base 10 long before any of the Indo-European tribes were part of civilizations that had writing.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      6 hours ago













    6












    6








    6





    $begingroup$

    In all likelihood, there is no forcing one society to adopt the other's system, instead, people would likely adopt a local market approach to measurements. Let's say you are on Earth building spaceship parts that will be used to make ships on Farawaynos, you manufacture to the other society's system of measurements. If they want to sell parts to Earth, they need to manufacture to the metric system of measurements. This is basically the same way that we do things now with the Metric and Imperial systems.



    The only way you will probably see a standardisation is if one society is much more influential than the other. If Humans have 20 billion people across 5 planets and the Farawayans have 20 trillion people across thousands of planets, the humans would likely be strong-armed into accepting that the alien societies unit of measurement is more reasonable for standardisation. Or, if one society conquered the other, you'd likely see the loser's system be replaced.



    Another option would be for the societies to agree on a new "interstellar" standard that is different than both nation's customary systems. If we use a base-10 metric derived from our own planetary motions and properties of water, and they use a base-6 metric derived from their planetary motions and properties of methane, we might agree that both systems have their flaws and adopt a new base-16 standard derived from the properties of our galaxy's central black hole and hydrogen. Chances are, both societies would be slow to adopt this as THE standard, but if all interplanetary trade becomes based on this, eventually, societies would shift to accept it as the more useful metric.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    In all likelihood, there is no forcing one society to adopt the other's system, instead, people would likely adopt a local market approach to measurements. Let's say you are on Earth building spaceship parts that will be used to make ships on Farawaynos, you manufacture to the other society's system of measurements. If they want to sell parts to Earth, they need to manufacture to the metric system of measurements. This is basically the same way that we do things now with the Metric and Imperial systems.



    The only way you will probably see a standardisation is if one society is much more influential than the other. If Humans have 20 billion people across 5 planets and the Farawayans have 20 trillion people across thousands of planets, the humans would likely be strong-armed into accepting that the alien societies unit of measurement is more reasonable for standardisation. Or, if one society conquered the other, you'd likely see the loser's system be replaced.



    Another option would be for the societies to agree on a new "interstellar" standard that is different than both nation's customary systems. If we use a base-10 metric derived from our own planetary motions and properties of water, and they use a base-6 metric derived from their planetary motions and properties of methane, we might agree that both systems have their flaws and adopt a new base-16 standard derived from the properties of our galaxy's central black hole and hydrogen. Chances are, both societies would be slow to adopt this as THE standard, but if all interplanetary trade becomes based on this, eventually, societies would shift to accept it as the more useful metric.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 7 hours ago

























    answered 8 hours ago









    NosajimikiNosajimiki

    5,3021435




    5,3021435











    • $begingroup$
      Makes a lot of sense. The persistence of imperial units in the US (maybe other countries), possibly deserves an explanation at some point (I don't suggest that it should be in this answer necessarily). +1
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      That was definitely my starting thought for this solution. Edited to include this though as an actual example.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- Base 6 is superior to Base 10. It has the same number of prime factors, an easier-to-memorize multiplication table, and its division yields non-repeating "decimals" for a higher fraction of modest denominators.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @Jasper Yet humans rejected base-6 thousands of years ago because the numbers took too long to write. I suggest Base-16 as a power of 2 stored in a power of 2 bits which gives it a number of advantages when optimising computer calculations around it. The point was not to suggest one system as more or less flawed, but that a compromise may be reached about finding a new and better system that both parties can agree upon.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- European societies' use of Base 10 (as opposed to Base 6) has nothing to do with writing. Proto-Indo-European used Base 10 long before any of the Indo-European tribes were part of civilizations that had writing.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      6 hours ago
















    • $begingroup$
      Makes a lot of sense. The persistence of imperial units in the US (maybe other countries), possibly deserves an explanation at some point (I don't suggest that it should be in this answer necessarily). +1
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      That was definitely my starting thought for this solution. Edited to include this though as an actual example.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- Base 6 is superior to Base 10. It has the same number of prime factors, an easier-to-memorize multiplication table, and its division yields non-repeating "decimals" for a higher fraction of modest denominators.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @Jasper Yet humans rejected base-6 thousands of years ago because the numbers took too long to write. I suggest Base-16 as a power of 2 stored in a power of 2 bits which gives it a number of advantages when optimising computer calculations around it. The point was not to suggest one system as more or less flawed, but that a compromise may be reached about finding a new and better system that both parties can agree upon.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki -- European societies' use of Base 10 (as opposed to Base 6) has nothing to do with writing. Proto-Indo-European used Base 10 long before any of the Indo-European tribes were part of civilizations that had writing.
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      6 hours ago















    $begingroup$
    Makes a lot of sense. The persistence of imperial units in the US (maybe other countries), possibly deserves an explanation at some point (I don't suggest that it should be in this answer necessarily). +1
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Makes a lot of sense. The persistence of imperial units in the US (maybe other countries), possibly deserves an explanation at some point (I don't suggest that it should be in this answer necessarily). +1
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    7 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    That was definitely my starting thought for this solution. Edited to include this though as an actual example.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    That was definitely my starting thought for this solution. Edited to include this though as an actual example.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki -- Base 6 is superior to Base 10. It has the same number of prime factors, an easier-to-memorize multiplication table, and its division yields non-repeating "decimals" for a higher fraction of modest denominators.
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    7 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki -- Base 6 is superior to Base 10. It has the same number of prime factors, an easier-to-memorize multiplication table, and its division yields non-repeating "decimals" for a higher fraction of modest denominators.
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    7 hours ago













    $begingroup$
    @Jasper Yet humans rejected base-6 thousands of years ago because the numbers took too long to write. I suggest Base-16 as a power of 2 stored in a power of 2 bits which gives it a number of advantages when optimising computer calculations around it. The point was not to suggest one system as more or less flawed, but that a compromise may be reached about finding a new and better system that both parties can agree upon.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    6 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    @Jasper Yet humans rejected base-6 thousands of years ago because the numbers took too long to write. I suggest Base-16 as a power of 2 stored in a power of 2 bits which gives it a number of advantages when optimising computer calculations around it. The point was not to suggest one system as more or less flawed, but that a compromise may be reached about finding a new and better system that both parties can agree upon.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    6 hours ago





    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki -- European societies' use of Base 10 (as opposed to Base 6) has nothing to do with writing. Proto-Indo-European used Base 10 long before any of the Indo-European tribes were part of civilizations that had writing.
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki -- European societies' use of Base 10 (as opposed to Base 6) has nothing to do with writing. Proto-Indo-European used Base 10 long before any of the Indo-European tribes were part of civilizations that had writing.
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    6 hours ago











    3












    $begingroup$

    • The way the US is really metric. There are the scientific (and legal) units and then there are customary units which are defined in terms of the scientific units.

    • The common scientific units are based on powers of two and naturally-occuring constants.





    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      How are distances, weights, light intensity, etc. based on powers of two? Or what other common units do you mean?
      $endgroup$
      – Soan
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think he means as what system would take precedent. We use base-10 because we have 10 fingers to count on. If the aliens had a base-2 or NoC system, then, thiers would be more logical as a universal standard since there will be shared logical reasons for these systems between races.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      We are not! We are not! WAAAAAH! We are not metric! Just because I have to have whole sets of metric wrenches and socket sets (It's because the cars aren't built in the U.S. anymore! Right? AmIRight? It's not our fault!) and people in hardware stores keep asking for metric wood screws! Say it ain't so! (*puts hands over ears*) We are not metric! We are not metric! (Where's a paper bag! quick!)
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @JBH -- My car was built in the U.S. to Japanese standards. And good luck with the hiccups:)
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      This could be a really good answer is it was expanded, like giving a few examples of naturally occuring constants. because the link is not helpful.
      $endgroup$
      – John
      7 hours ago















    3












    $begingroup$

    • The way the US is really metric. There are the scientific (and legal) units and then there are customary units which are defined in terms of the scientific units.

    • The common scientific units are based on powers of two and naturally-occuring constants.





    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      How are distances, weights, light intensity, etc. based on powers of two? Or what other common units do you mean?
      $endgroup$
      – Soan
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think he means as what system would take precedent. We use base-10 because we have 10 fingers to count on. If the aliens had a base-2 or NoC system, then, thiers would be more logical as a universal standard since there will be shared logical reasons for these systems between races.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      We are not! We are not! WAAAAAH! We are not metric! Just because I have to have whole sets of metric wrenches and socket sets (It's because the cars aren't built in the U.S. anymore! Right? AmIRight? It's not our fault!) and people in hardware stores keep asking for metric wood screws! Say it ain't so! (*puts hands over ears*) We are not metric! We are not metric! (Where's a paper bag! quick!)
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @JBH -- My car was built in the U.S. to Japanese standards. And good luck with the hiccups:)
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      This could be a really good answer is it was expanded, like giving a few examples of naturally occuring constants. because the link is not helpful.
      $endgroup$
      – John
      7 hours ago













    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$

    • The way the US is really metric. There are the scientific (and legal) units and then there are customary units which are defined in terms of the scientific units.

    • The common scientific units are based on powers of two and naturally-occuring constants.





    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    • The way the US is really metric. There are the scientific (and legal) units and then there are customary units which are defined in terms of the scientific units.

    • The common scientific units are based on powers of two and naturally-occuring constants.






    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 8 hours ago









    o.m.o.m.

    65.1k796214




    65.1k796214











    • $begingroup$
      How are distances, weights, light intensity, etc. based on powers of two? Or what other common units do you mean?
      $endgroup$
      – Soan
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think he means as what system would take precedent. We use base-10 because we have 10 fingers to count on. If the aliens had a base-2 or NoC system, then, thiers would be more logical as a universal standard since there will be shared logical reasons for these systems between races.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      We are not! We are not! WAAAAAH! We are not metric! Just because I have to have whole sets of metric wrenches and socket sets (It's because the cars aren't built in the U.S. anymore! Right? AmIRight? It's not our fault!) and people in hardware stores keep asking for metric wood screws! Say it ain't so! (*puts hands over ears*) We are not metric! We are not metric! (Where's a paper bag! quick!)
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @JBH -- My car was built in the U.S. to Japanese standards. And good luck with the hiccups:)
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      This could be a really good answer is it was expanded, like giving a few examples of naturally occuring constants. because the link is not helpful.
      $endgroup$
      – John
      7 hours ago
















    • $begingroup$
      How are distances, weights, light intensity, etc. based on powers of two? Or what other common units do you mean?
      $endgroup$
      – Soan
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think he means as what system would take precedent. We use base-10 because we have 10 fingers to count on. If the aliens had a base-2 or NoC system, then, thiers would be more logical as a universal standard since there will be shared logical reasons for these systems between races.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      We are not! We are not! WAAAAAH! We are not metric! Just because I have to have whole sets of metric wrenches and socket sets (It's because the cars aren't built in the U.S. anymore! Right? AmIRight? It's not our fault!) and people in hardware stores keep asking for metric wood screws! Say it ain't so! (*puts hands over ears*) We are not metric! We are not metric! (Where's a paper bag! quick!)
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @JBH -- My car was built in the U.S. to Japanese standards. And good luck with the hiccups:)
      $endgroup$
      – Jasper
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      This could be a really good answer is it was expanded, like giving a few examples of naturally occuring constants. because the link is not helpful.
      $endgroup$
      – John
      7 hours ago















    $begingroup$
    How are distances, weights, light intensity, etc. based on powers of two? Or what other common units do you mean?
    $endgroup$
    – Soan
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    How are distances, weights, light intensity, etc. based on powers of two? Or what other common units do you mean?
    $endgroup$
    – Soan
    8 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    I think he means as what system would take precedent. We use base-10 because we have 10 fingers to count on. If the aliens had a base-2 or NoC system, then, thiers would be more logical as a universal standard since there will be shared logical reasons for these systems between races.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I think he means as what system would take precedent. We use base-10 because we have 10 fingers to count on. If the aliens had a base-2 or NoC system, then, thiers would be more logical as a universal standard since there will be shared logical reasons for these systems between races.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    We are not! We are not! WAAAAAH! We are not metric! Just because I have to have whole sets of metric wrenches and socket sets (It's because the cars aren't built in the U.S. anymore! Right? AmIRight? It's not our fault!) and people in hardware stores keep asking for metric wood screws! Say it ain't so! (*puts hands over ears*) We are not metric! We are not metric! (Where's a paper bag! quick!)
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    7 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    We are not! We are not! WAAAAAH! We are not metric! Just because I have to have whole sets of metric wrenches and socket sets (It's because the cars aren't built in the U.S. anymore! Right? AmIRight? It's not our fault!) and people in hardware stores keep asking for metric wood screws! Say it ain't so! (*puts hands over ears*) We are not metric! We are not metric! (Where's a paper bag! quick!)
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    7 hours ago





    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    @JBH -- My car was built in the U.S. to Japanese standards. And good luck with the hiccups:)
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @JBH -- My car was built in the U.S. to Japanese standards. And good luck with the hiccups:)
    $endgroup$
    – Jasper
    7 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    This could be a really good answer is it was expanded, like giving a few examples of naturally occuring constants. because the link is not helpful.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    This could be a really good answer is it was expanded, like giving a few examples of naturally occuring constants. because the link is not helpful.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    7 hours ago











    3












    $begingroup$

    This isn't as hard as it might seem



    It would be harder to work out the semiotics than the conversion and/or adoption. After that it's just software. Why?



    Because a substantial amount of science involves relationships. For example, the value of 𝜋 is unitless (3.14159...) That relationship would be the same no matter what mathematical base was used, or what standard of length, or even what the alien's definition of base units like meters or "seconds" (base unit of time) are.



    Consequently, once you've figured out how to represent 𝜋 in both languages (and every other unitless relationship number, like the proton-to-electron mass ratio or the Planck constant, (see more)), everything else is basically algebra.1



    As for whose version of the math/semiotics wins out, that has more to do with who's the bigger gorilla. If we have an empire of ten worlds and they have an empire of 100, the odds are very good that their systems will win out. In other words, we may use our systems internally, but anything that touches both species will also have their system.



    Like o.m. said, it's like the U.S. being metric. We hate it, but every can of soda has both ounces and liters printed on the can. Eventually a generation will be born who wonders what an ounce is.... But not today. 😆




    1Or calculus. It's either going to be high-school trivial or PhD hard ... but it'll still just be an issue of software.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      This actually makes me think of writing software to handle datetimes. Dates and times are SUPER unstandardised, there are dozens ways to write the same datetime, sometimes you need it all the way down to microsecond, sometimes years will suffice. sometimes you write 5/28/2019, sometimes you write 2019-5-28. Sometimes you have Daylights savings time, sometimes you don't, but we write software to figure all that out. If we can write software to get around these incongruencies, then making our digital media automatically translate km to kellicam should be trivial.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      But.... Pi assumes the same spatial geometry (or rather the same shortcut as represented by Euclid), does the question make such assertions? Sure, we must have a point of contact, but the lack of specific assertions make the question as you said either trivial or ridiculously hard. Since the question offers no specific direction, one must assume that your answer fits best, lest Occam's razor get blunt - but I can't help but think - Hickam's dictum states: "A man can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases."
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Hoyle'sghost, the moment the OP said "units of measure" he opened up the discussion to every unitless mathematical constant in the universe. (Nice Hickam quote, BTW). To be fair, the OP could have a world/universe where it's impossible to actually draw a circle - but he did say "humans." Sounds like our universe to me, and I think it's a bit pedantic to argue, "that might not be true."
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki, that's a great example. Almost every computer today has the concept of "local time" because we humans have already had to overcome this problem - just in a simpler context.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @JBH My point was more along the lines of - why would linear mathematics be familiar to a super-advanced species (if they are that... unspecified) , in Earth-schools fluctions are not routinely taught as a pre-cursor to calculus, why would the aliens even know about Pi?
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago
















    3












    $begingroup$

    This isn't as hard as it might seem



    It would be harder to work out the semiotics than the conversion and/or adoption. After that it's just software. Why?



    Because a substantial amount of science involves relationships. For example, the value of 𝜋 is unitless (3.14159...) That relationship would be the same no matter what mathematical base was used, or what standard of length, or even what the alien's definition of base units like meters or "seconds" (base unit of time) are.



    Consequently, once you've figured out how to represent 𝜋 in both languages (and every other unitless relationship number, like the proton-to-electron mass ratio or the Planck constant, (see more)), everything else is basically algebra.1



    As for whose version of the math/semiotics wins out, that has more to do with who's the bigger gorilla. If we have an empire of ten worlds and they have an empire of 100, the odds are very good that their systems will win out. In other words, we may use our systems internally, but anything that touches both species will also have their system.



    Like o.m. said, it's like the U.S. being metric. We hate it, but every can of soda has both ounces and liters printed on the can. Eventually a generation will be born who wonders what an ounce is.... But not today. 😆




    1Or calculus. It's either going to be high-school trivial or PhD hard ... but it'll still just be an issue of software.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      This actually makes me think of writing software to handle datetimes. Dates and times are SUPER unstandardised, there are dozens ways to write the same datetime, sometimes you need it all the way down to microsecond, sometimes years will suffice. sometimes you write 5/28/2019, sometimes you write 2019-5-28. Sometimes you have Daylights savings time, sometimes you don't, but we write software to figure all that out. If we can write software to get around these incongruencies, then making our digital media automatically translate km to kellicam should be trivial.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      But.... Pi assumes the same spatial geometry (or rather the same shortcut as represented by Euclid), does the question make such assertions? Sure, we must have a point of contact, but the lack of specific assertions make the question as you said either trivial or ridiculously hard. Since the question offers no specific direction, one must assume that your answer fits best, lest Occam's razor get blunt - but I can't help but think - Hickam's dictum states: "A man can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases."
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Hoyle'sghost, the moment the OP said "units of measure" he opened up the discussion to every unitless mathematical constant in the universe. (Nice Hickam quote, BTW). To be fair, the OP could have a world/universe where it's impossible to actually draw a circle - but he did say "humans." Sounds like our universe to me, and I think it's a bit pedantic to argue, "that might not be true."
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki, that's a great example. Almost every computer today has the concept of "local time" because we humans have already had to overcome this problem - just in a simpler context.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @JBH My point was more along the lines of - why would linear mathematics be familiar to a super-advanced species (if they are that... unspecified) , in Earth-schools fluctions are not routinely taught as a pre-cursor to calculus, why would the aliens even know about Pi?
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago














    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$

    This isn't as hard as it might seem



    It would be harder to work out the semiotics than the conversion and/or adoption. After that it's just software. Why?



    Because a substantial amount of science involves relationships. For example, the value of 𝜋 is unitless (3.14159...) That relationship would be the same no matter what mathematical base was used, or what standard of length, or even what the alien's definition of base units like meters or "seconds" (base unit of time) are.



    Consequently, once you've figured out how to represent 𝜋 in both languages (and every other unitless relationship number, like the proton-to-electron mass ratio or the Planck constant, (see more)), everything else is basically algebra.1



    As for whose version of the math/semiotics wins out, that has more to do with who's the bigger gorilla. If we have an empire of ten worlds and they have an empire of 100, the odds are very good that their systems will win out. In other words, we may use our systems internally, but anything that touches both species will also have their system.



    Like o.m. said, it's like the U.S. being metric. We hate it, but every can of soda has both ounces and liters printed on the can. Eventually a generation will be born who wonders what an ounce is.... But not today. 😆




    1Or calculus. It's either going to be high-school trivial or PhD hard ... but it'll still just be an issue of software.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    This isn't as hard as it might seem



    It would be harder to work out the semiotics than the conversion and/or adoption. After that it's just software. Why?



    Because a substantial amount of science involves relationships. For example, the value of 𝜋 is unitless (3.14159...) That relationship would be the same no matter what mathematical base was used, or what standard of length, or even what the alien's definition of base units like meters or "seconds" (base unit of time) are.



    Consequently, once you've figured out how to represent 𝜋 in both languages (and every other unitless relationship number, like the proton-to-electron mass ratio or the Planck constant, (see more)), everything else is basically algebra.1



    As for whose version of the math/semiotics wins out, that has more to do with who's the bigger gorilla. If we have an empire of ten worlds and they have an empire of 100, the odds are very good that their systems will win out. In other words, we may use our systems internally, but anything that touches both species will also have their system.



    Like o.m. said, it's like the U.S. being metric. We hate it, but every can of soda has both ounces and liters printed on the can. Eventually a generation will be born who wonders what an ounce is.... But not today. 😆




    1Or calculus. It's either going to be high-school trivial or PhD hard ... but it'll still just be an issue of software.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 7 hours ago









    JBHJBH

    52.4k7114256




    52.4k7114256











    • $begingroup$
      This actually makes me think of writing software to handle datetimes. Dates and times are SUPER unstandardised, there are dozens ways to write the same datetime, sometimes you need it all the way down to microsecond, sometimes years will suffice. sometimes you write 5/28/2019, sometimes you write 2019-5-28. Sometimes you have Daylights savings time, sometimes you don't, but we write software to figure all that out. If we can write software to get around these incongruencies, then making our digital media automatically translate km to kellicam should be trivial.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      But.... Pi assumes the same spatial geometry (or rather the same shortcut as represented by Euclid), does the question make such assertions? Sure, we must have a point of contact, but the lack of specific assertions make the question as you said either trivial or ridiculously hard. Since the question offers no specific direction, one must assume that your answer fits best, lest Occam's razor get blunt - but I can't help but think - Hickam's dictum states: "A man can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases."
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Hoyle'sghost, the moment the OP said "units of measure" he opened up the discussion to every unitless mathematical constant in the universe. (Nice Hickam quote, BTW). To be fair, the OP could have a world/universe where it's impossible to actually draw a circle - but he did say "humans." Sounds like our universe to me, and I think it's a bit pedantic to argue, "that might not be true."
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki, that's a great example. Almost every computer today has the concept of "local time" because we humans have already had to overcome this problem - just in a simpler context.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @JBH My point was more along the lines of - why would linear mathematics be familiar to a super-advanced species (if they are that... unspecified) , in Earth-schools fluctions are not routinely taught as a pre-cursor to calculus, why would the aliens even know about Pi?
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago

















    • $begingroup$
      This actually makes me think of writing software to handle datetimes. Dates and times are SUPER unstandardised, there are dozens ways to write the same datetime, sometimes you need it all the way down to microsecond, sometimes years will suffice. sometimes you write 5/28/2019, sometimes you write 2019-5-28. Sometimes you have Daylights savings time, sometimes you don't, but we write software to figure all that out. If we can write software to get around these incongruencies, then making our digital media automatically translate km to kellicam should be trivial.
      $endgroup$
      – Nosajimiki
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      But.... Pi assumes the same spatial geometry (or rather the same shortcut as represented by Euclid), does the question make such assertions? Sure, we must have a point of contact, but the lack of specific assertions make the question as you said either trivial or ridiculously hard. Since the question offers no specific direction, one must assume that your answer fits best, lest Occam's razor get blunt - but I can't help but think - Hickam's dictum states: "A man can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases."
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Hoyle'sghost, the moment the OP said "units of measure" he opened up the discussion to every unitless mathematical constant in the universe. (Nice Hickam quote, BTW). To be fair, the OP could have a world/universe where it's impossible to actually draw a circle - but he did say "humans." Sounds like our universe to me, and I think it's a bit pedantic to argue, "that might not be true."
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Nosajimiki, that's a great example. Almost every computer today has the concept of "local time" because we humans have already had to overcome this problem - just in a simpler context.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @JBH My point was more along the lines of - why would linear mathematics be familiar to a super-advanced species (if they are that... unspecified) , in Earth-schools fluctions are not routinely taught as a pre-cursor to calculus, why would the aliens even know about Pi?
      $endgroup$
      – Hoyle's ghost
      6 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    This actually makes me think of writing software to handle datetimes. Dates and times are SUPER unstandardised, there are dozens ways to write the same datetime, sometimes you need it all the way down to microsecond, sometimes years will suffice. sometimes you write 5/28/2019, sometimes you write 2019-5-28. Sometimes you have Daylights savings time, sometimes you don't, but we write software to figure all that out. If we can write software to get around these incongruencies, then making our digital media automatically translate km to kellicam should be trivial.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    This actually makes me think of writing software to handle datetimes. Dates and times are SUPER unstandardised, there are dozens ways to write the same datetime, sometimes you need it all the way down to microsecond, sometimes years will suffice. sometimes you write 5/28/2019, sometimes you write 2019-5-28. Sometimes you have Daylights savings time, sometimes you don't, but we write software to figure all that out. If we can write software to get around these incongruencies, then making our digital media automatically translate km to kellicam should be trivial.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    6 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    But.... Pi assumes the same spatial geometry (or rather the same shortcut as represented by Euclid), does the question make such assertions? Sure, we must have a point of contact, but the lack of specific assertions make the question as you said either trivial or ridiculously hard. Since the question offers no specific direction, one must assume that your answer fits best, lest Occam's razor get blunt - but I can't help but think - Hickam's dictum states: "A man can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases."
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    But.... Pi assumes the same spatial geometry (or rather the same shortcut as represented by Euclid), does the question make such assertions? Sure, we must have a point of contact, but the lack of specific assertions make the question as you said either trivial or ridiculously hard. Since the question offers no specific direction, one must assume that your answer fits best, lest Occam's razor get blunt - but I can't help but think - Hickam's dictum states: "A man can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases."
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    6 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @Hoyle'sghost, the moment the OP said "units of measure" he opened up the discussion to every unitless mathematical constant in the universe. (Nice Hickam quote, BTW). To be fair, the OP could have a world/universe where it's impossible to actually draw a circle - but he did say "humans." Sounds like our universe to me, and I think it's a bit pedantic to argue, "that might not be true."
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @Hoyle'sghost, the moment the OP said "units of measure" he opened up the discussion to every unitless mathematical constant in the universe. (Nice Hickam quote, BTW). To be fair, the OP could have a world/universe where it's impossible to actually draw a circle - but he did say "humans." Sounds like our universe to me, and I think it's a bit pedantic to argue, "that might not be true."
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    6 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki, that's a great example. Almost every computer today has the concept of "local time" because we humans have already had to overcome this problem - just in a simpler context.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @Nosajimiki, that's a great example. Almost every computer today has the concept of "local time" because we humans have already had to overcome this problem - just in a simpler context.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    6 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @JBH My point was more along the lines of - why would linear mathematics be familiar to a super-advanced species (if they are that... unspecified) , in Earth-schools fluctions are not routinely taught as a pre-cursor to calculus, why would the aliens even know about Pi?
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    6 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    @JBH My point was more along the lines of - why would linear mathematics be familiar to a super-advanced species (if they are that... unspecified) , in Earth-schools fluctions are not routinely taught as a pre-cursor to calculus, why would the aliens even know about Pi?
    $endgroup$
    – Hoyle's ghost
    6 hours ago












    0












    $begingroup$

    They might simply choose to use Planck units, which are all ratios of various physical constants of nature (like the speed of light and planck's constant), which implies that if you express the constants of physics in these units, they all have a numerical value of 1--for example, in these units the speed of light is 1 (planck length)/(planck time), and Planck's constant is 1 (planck mass)*(planck length^2)/(planck time).



    The disadvantage of these units is that ordinary human-scale phenomena will have huge values, for example 10^35 planck lengths is about 1.6 meters and 10^44 planck times is about 5.4 seconds, but you could just invent special names for large multiples, for example 1 YGlengths could be defined as 10^33 plank lengths (where Y and G stand for yotta and giga) which would be about 1.6 centimeters, and 1 YZtimes (where Y and Z stand for yotta and zetta) could be defined as 10^45 planck times or about 54 seconds.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      0












      $begingroup$

      They might simply choose to use Planck units, which are all ratios of various physical constants of nature (like the speed of light and planck's constant), which implies that if you express the constants of physics in these units, they all have a numerical value of 1--for example, in these units the speed of light is 1 (planck length)/(planck time), and Planck's constant is 1 (planck mass)*(planck length^2)/(planck time).



      The disadvantage of these units is that ordinary human-scale phenomena will have huge values, for example 10^35 planck lengths is about 1.6 meters and 10^44 planck times is about 5.4 seconds, but you could just invent special names for large multiples, for example 1 YGlengths could be defined as 10^33 plank lengths (where Y and G stand for yotta and giga) which would be about 1.6 centimeters, and 1 YZtimes (where Y and Z stand for yotta and zetta) could be defined as 10^45 planck times or about 54 seconds.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        They might simply choose to use Planck units, which are all ratios of various physical constants of nature (like the speed of light and planck's constant), which implies that if you express the constants of physics in these units, they all have a numerical value of 1--for example, in these units the speed of light is 1 (planck length)/(planck time), and Planck's constant is 1 (planck mass)*(planck length^2)/(planck time).



        The disadvantage of these units is that ordinary human-scale phenomena will have huge values, for example 10^35 planck lengths is about 1.6 meters and 10^44 planck times is about 5.4 seconds, but you could just invent special names for large multiples, for example 1 YGlengths could be defined as 10^33 plank lengths (where Y and G stand for yotta and giga) which would be about 1.6 centimeters, and 1 YZtimes (where Y and Z stand for yotta and zetta) could be defined as 10^45 planck times or about 54 seconds.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        They might simply choose to use Planck units, which are all ratios of various physical constants of nature (like the speed of light and planck's constant), which implies that if you express the constants of physics in these units, they all have a numerical value of 1--for example, in these units the speed of light is 1 (planck length)/(planck time), and Planck's constant is 1 (planck mass)*(planck length^2)/(planck time).



        The disadvantage of these units is that ordinary human-scale phenomena will have huge values, for example 10^35 planck lengths is about 1.6 meters and 10^44 planck times is about 5.4 seconds, but you could just invent special names for large multiples, for example 1 YGlengths could be defined as 10^33 plank lengths (where Y and G stand for yotta and giga) which would be about 1.6 centimeters, and 1 YZtimes (where Y and Z stand for yotta and zetta) could be defined as 10^45 planck times or about 54 seconds.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 3 hours ago









        HypnosiflHypnosifl

        1,383713




        1,383713





















            0












            $begingroup$

            Humans have already solved this problem.



            There are many useful universal numbers that can be used. mostly atomic phenomenon such as the mass of X atoms of a particular isotope or natural atomic oscillation. You may want to checkout the current definitions of all SI units. which are defined in such as way as to make them universal. That is they are based on universal constants like the transition states of cesium atoms.



            Second: The duration of 9192631770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom.



            Meter: The distance travelled by light in vacuum in
            1/299792458 second.



            Kilogram: The kilogram is defined by setting the Planck constant h exactly to 6.62607015×1034 J⋅s (J = kg⋅m2⋅s2), given the definitions of the metre and the second.



            Mole:The amount of substance of exactly 6.02214076×1023 elementary entities.



            Kelvin: fixed numerical value of the Boltzmann constant k to 1.380649×1023 J/K, (J = kg⋅m2/s2), given the definition of the kilogram, the metre and the second.



            Ampere:The flow of 1/1.602176634×1019
            times the elementary charge e per second.



            Candela: The luminous intensity, in a given direction, of a source that emits monochromatic radiation of frequency 5.4×1014 hertz and that has a radiant intensity in that direction of 1/683 watt per steradian.



            The individual numbers can be derived by any civilization you can communicate with. they might not have them but as long as you can communicate with them they can match them and use them as common unit of measure. Alternatively the two species can come up with a mutual set of units defined in similiar ways.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Please fix your superscripts. :)
              $endgroup$
              – a CVn
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @aCVn I would but I have no idea how.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- All of these examples have arbitrary-seeming constants with many digits of precision. This means that it is very unlikely that another civilization would coincidentally come up with the same constants -- or even be willing to think that these particular values are particularly good choices.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- If expressed using short (but still accurate) constants, the definitions are still within rounding error of 40,000,000 meters for the polar circumference of the Earth at sea level, 86,400 seconds in Earth's solar day, et cetera. These definitions show where (and when, on a geological timescale) they were developed.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Jasper any civilization you are capable of communicating with across interstellar distances can match that precision. I never said they would come up with the same units, but the units are based on universal constants, so said civilization can use them with reliable accuracy.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              3 hours ago
















            0












            $begingroup$

            Humans have already solved this problem.



            There are many useful universal numbers that can be used. mostly atomic phenomenon such as the mass of X atoms of a particular isotope or natural atomic oscillation. You may want to checkout the current definitions of all SI units. which are defined in such as way as to make them universal. That is they are based on universal constants like the transition states of cesium atoms.



            Second: The duration of 9192631770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom.



            Meter: The distance travelled by light in vacuum in
            1/299792458 second.



            Kilogram: The kilogram is defined by setting the Planck constant h exactly to 6.62607015×1034 J⋅s (J = kg⋅m2⋅s2), given the definitions of the metre and the second.



            Mole:The amount of substance of exactly 6.02214076×1023 elementary entities.



            Kelvin: fixed numerical value of the Boltzmann constant k to 1.380649×1023 J/K, (J = kg⋅m2/s2), given the definition of the kilogram, the metre and the second.



            Ampere:The flow of 1/1.602176634×1019
            times the elementary charge e per second.



            Candela: The luminous intensity, in a given direction, of a source that emits monochromatic radiation of frequency 5.4×1014 hertz and that has a radiant intensity in that direction of 1/683 watt per steradian.



            The individual numbers can be derived by any civilization you can communicate with. they might not have them but as long as you can communicate with them they can match them and use them as common unit of measure. Alternatively the two species can come up with a mutual set of units defined in similiar ways.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Please fix your superscripts. :)
              $endgroup$
              – a CVn
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @aCVn I would but I have no idea how.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- All of these examples have arbitrary-seeming constants with many digits of precision. This means that it is very unlikely that another civilization would coincidentally come up with the same constants -- or even be willing to think that these particular values are particularly good choices.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- If expressed using short (but still accurate) constants, the definitions are still within rounding error of 40,000,000 meters for the polar circumference of the Earth at sea level, 86,400 seconds in Earth's solar day, et cetera. These definitions show where (and when, on a geological timescale) they were developed.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Jasper any civilization you are capable of communicating with across interstellar distances can match that precision. I never said they would come up with the same units, but the units are based on universal constants, so said civilization can use them with reliable accuracy.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              3 hours ago














            0












            0








            0





            $begingroup$

            Humans have already solved this problem.



            There are many useful universal numbers that can be used. mostly atomic phenomenon such as the mass of X atoms of a particular isotope or natural atomic oscillation. You may want to checkout the current definitions of all SI units. which are defined in such as way as to make them universal. That is they are based on universal constants like the transition states of cesium atoms.



            Second: The duration of 9192631770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom.



            Meter: The distance travelled by light in vacuum in
            1/299792458 second.



            Kilogram: The kilogram is defined by setting the Planck constant h exactly to 6.62607015×1034 J⋅s (J = kg⋅m2⋅s2), given the definitions of the metre and the second.



            Mole:The amount of substance of exactly 6.02214076×1023 elementary entities.



            Kelvin: fixed numerical value of the Boltzmann constant k to 1.380649×1023 J/K, (J = kg⋅m2/s2), given the definition of the kilogram, the metre and the second.



            Ampere:The flow of 1/1.602176634×1019
            times the elementary charge e per second.



            Candela: The luminous intensity, in a given direction, of a source that emits monochromatic radiation of frequency 5.4×1014 hertz and that has a radiant intensity in that direction of 1/683 watt per steradian.



            The individual numbers can be derived by any civilization you can communicate with. they might not have them but as long as you can communicate with them they can match them and use them as common unit of measure. Alternatively the two species can come up with a mutual set of units defined in similiar ways.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Humans have already solved this problem.



            There are many useful universal numbers that can be used. mostly atomic phenomenon such as the mass of X atoms of a particular isotope or natural atomic oscillation. You may want to checkout the current definitions of all SI units. which are defined in such as way as to make them universal. That is they are based on universal constants like the transition states of cesium atoms.



            Second: The duration of 9192631770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom.



            Meter: The distance travelled by light in vacuum in
            1/299792458 second.



            Kilogram: The kilogram is defined by setting the Planck constant h exactly to 6.62607015×1034 J⋅s (J = kg⋅m2⋅s2), given the definitions of the metre and the second.



            Mole:The amount of substance of exactly 6.02214076×1023 elementary entities.



            Kelvin: fixed numerical value of the Boltzmann constant k to 1.380649×1023 J/K, (J = kg⋅m2/s2), given the definition of the kilogram, the metre and the second.



            Ampere:The flow of 1/1.602176634×1019
            times the elementary charge e per second.



            Candela: The luminous intensity, in a given direction, of a source that emits monochromatic radiation of frequency 5.4×1014 hertz and that has a radiant intensity in that direction of 1/683 watt per steradian.



            The individual numbers can be derived by any civilization you can communicate with. they might not have them but as long as you can communicate with them they can match them and use them as common unit of measure. Alternatively the two species can come up with a mutual set of units defined in similiar ways.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 3 hours ago









            Jasper

            3,3621029




            3,3621029










            answered 6 hours ago









            JohnJohn

            37.7k1049129




            37.7k1049129











            • $begingroup$
              Please fix your superscripts. :)
              $endgroup$
              – a CVn
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @aCVn I would but I have no idea how.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- All of these examples have arbitrary-seeming constants with many digits of precision. This means that it is very unlikely that another civilization would coincidentally come up with the same constants -- or even be willing to think that these particular values are particularly good choices.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- If expressed using short (but still accurate) constants, the definitions are still within rounding error of 40,000,000 meters for the polar circumference of the Earth at sea level, 86,400 seconds in Earth's solar day, et cetera. These definitions show where (and when, on a geological timescale) they were developed.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Jasper any civilization you are capable of communicating with across interstellar distances can match that precision. I never said they would come up with the same units, but the units are based on universal constants, so said civilization can use them with reliable accuracy.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              3 hours ago

















            • $begingroup$
              Please fix your superscripts. :)
              $endgroup$
              – a CVn
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @aCVn I would but I have no idea how.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- All of these examples have arbitrary-seeming constants with many digits of precision. This means that it is very unlikely that another civilization would coincidentally come up with the same constants -- or even be willing to think that these particular values are particularly good choices.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @John -- If expressed using short (but still accurate) constants, the definitions are still within rounding error of 40,000,000 meters for the polar circumference of the Earth at sea level, 86,400 seconds in Earth's solar day, et cetera. These definitions show where (and when, on a geological timescale) they were developed.
              $endgroup$
              – Jasper
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Jasper any civilization you are capable of communicating with across interstellar distances can match that precision. I never said they would come up with the same units, but the units are based on universal constants, so said civilization can use them with reliable accuracy.
              $endgroup$
              – John
              3 hours ago
















            $begingroup$
            Please fix your superscripts. :)
            $endgroup$
            – a CVn
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Please fix your superscripts. :)
            $endgroup$
            – a CVn
            6 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @aCVn I would but I have no idea how.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @aCVn I would but I have no idea how.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            6 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @John -- All of these examples have arbitrary-seeming constants with many digits of precision. This means that it is very unlikely that another civilization would coincidentally come up with the same constants -- or even be willing to think that these particular values are particularly good choices.
            $endgroup$
            – Jasper
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @John -- All of these examples have arbitrary-seeming constants with many digits of precision. This means that it is very unlikely that another civilization would coincidentally come up with the same constants -- or even be willing to think that these particular values are particularly good choices.
            $endgroup$
            – Jasper
            6 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @John -- If expressed using short (but still accurate) constants, the definitions are still within rounding error of 40,000,000 meters for the polar circumference of the Earth at sea level, 86,400 seconds in Earth's solar day, et cetera. These definitions show where (and when, on a geological timescale) they were developed.
            $endgroup$
            – Jasper
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @John -- If expressed using short (but still accurate) constants, the definitions are still within rounding error of 40,000,000 meters for the polar circumference of the Earth at sea level, 86,400 seconds in Earth's solar day, et cetera. These definitions show where (and when, on a geological timescale) they were developed.
            $endgroup$
            – Jasper
            6 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @Jasper any civilization you are capable of communicating with across interstellar distances can match that precision. I never said they would come up with the same units, but the units are based on universal constants, so said civilization can use them with reliable accuracy.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            3 hours ago





            $begingroup$
            @Jasper any civilization you are capable of communicating with across interstellar distances can match that precision. I never said they would come up with the same units, but the units are based on universal constants, so said civilization can use them with reliable accuracy.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            3 hours ago


















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