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Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
Consequences for Trump if WH continues blocking witnesses and ignoring subpoenas?Why is the Speaker of the House able to stop a vote on a clean spending bill?What more would the American Health Care Act (ACHA) bill have needed to garner support from the House Freedom Caucus?Has Angela Merkel suggested a decline in relations between EU and USA at NATO summit in 2017?If one party controls the house and 2/3 of the senate, what's to stop them taking the presidency?How many treaties ratified by Congress did the US exit unilaterally?How does voting in the US Senate work?Would switching to a proportionate House require a constitutional amendment?Does a presidential impeachment inquiry give the House additional powers to obtain documents more quickly?Does the DOJ's declining to investigate the Trump-Zelensky call ruin the basis for impeachment?Could the Senate legally hold an impeachment conviction vote in secret?
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Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
News sources such as this CNN article seem to show a disagreement between the White House saying that a House vote is required, while the Speaker of the House holds that they have the power to declare one on their own.
united-states donald-trump congress impeachment procedure
New contributor
add a comment
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Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
News sources such as this CNN article seem to show a disagreement between the White House saying that a House vote is required, while the Speaker of the House holds that they have the power to declare one on their own.
united-states donald-trump congress impeachment procedure
New contributor
The White House has now sent an official letter to the HoR that they refuse to cooperate with the inquiry in part because of this non-vote. The way you asked this question is asking us to determine who is right in interpreting the rules basically. It's probably too close "primarily opinion based" right now. I guess courts will decide and/or it will be another showdown between the HoR and the WH with usual government shutdown.
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Fizz that letter displays a wilful misunderstanding of the impeachment process. There is a point in that process when the president is afforded the opportunity to call and cross examine witnesses, which is during the trial in the Senate, should it ever get that far.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
News sources such as this CNN article seem to show a disagreement between the White House saying that a House vote is required, while the Speaker of the House holds that they have the power to declare one on their own.
united-states donald-trump congress impeachment procedure
New contributor
Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
News sources such as this CNN article seem to show a disagreement between the White House saying that a House vote is required, while the Speaker of the House holds that they have the power to declare one on their own.
united-states donald-trump congress impeachment procedure
united-states donald-trump congress impeachment procedure
New contributor
New contributor
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JJJ
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The White House has now sent an official letter to the HoR that they refuse to cooperate with the inquiry in part because of this non-vote. The way you asked this question is asking us to determine who is right in interpreting the rules basically. It's probably too close "primarily opinion based" right now. I guess courts will decide and/or it will be another showdown between the HoR and the WH with usual government shutdown.
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Fizz that letter displays a wilful misunderstanding of the impeachment process. There is a point in that process when the president is afforded the opportunity to call and cross examine witnesses, which is during the trial in the Senate, should it ever get that far.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
The White House has now sent an official letter to the HoR that they refuse to cooperate with the inquiry in part because of this non-vote. The way you asked this question is asking us to determine who is right in interpreting the rules basically. It's probably too close "primarily opinion based" right now. I guess courts will decide and/or it will be another showdown between the HoR and the WH with usual government shutdown.
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Fizz that letter displays a wilful misunderstanding of the impeachment process. There is a point in that process when the president is afforded the opportunity to call and cross examine witnesses, which is during the trial in the Senate, should it ever get that far.
– phoog
2 hours ago
The White House has now sent an official letter to the HoR that they refuse to cooperate with the inquiry in part because of this non-vote. The way you asked this question is asking us to determine who is right in interpreting the rules basically. It's probably too close "primarily opinion based" right now. I guess courts will decide and/or it will be another showdown between the HoR and the WH with usual government shutdown.
– Fizz
2 hours ago
The White House has now sent an official letter to the HoR that they refuse to cooperate with the inquiry in part because of this non-vote. The way you asked this question is asking us to determine who is right in interpreting the rules basically. It's probably too close "primarily opinion based" right now. I guess courts will decide and/or it will be another showdown between the HoR and the WH with usual government shutdown.
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Fizz that letter displays a wilful misunderstanding of the impeachment process. There is a point in that process when the president is afforded the opportunity to call and cross examine witnesses, which is during the trial in the Senate, should it ever get that far.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@Fizz that letter displays a wilful misunderstanding of the impeachment process. There is a point in that process when the president is afforded the opportunity to call and cross examine witnesses, which is during the trial in the Senate, should it ever get that far.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
3 Answers
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According to Wikipedia, the procedure is threefold. First, there are investigations by congressional committees. Second, the House of Representatives draws up articles of impeachment and votes on them. When these votes are passed then the defendant is impeached. Third, the Senate holds a trial. If two-thirds of the Senate votes to convict on (one of) the articles of impeachment then the defendant is removed from office.
The NYT also has an article on this, regarding the process it draws from historical examples. It writes:
In both the Nixon and the Clinton cases, the House Judiciary Committee first held an investigation and recommended articles of impeachment to the full House. In theory, however, the House of Representatives could instead set up a special panel to handle the proceedings — or just hold a floor vote on such articles without any committee vetting them.
When the full House votes on articles of impeachment, if at least one gets a majority vote, the president is impeached — which is essentially the equivalent of being indicted.
So it's normal for a presidential impeachment to be preceded by an inquiry in which congressional committees investigate by hearing witnesses.
One may compare it to a police investigation before the district attorney (DA) brings charges to the courtroom. In high profile cases, the DA's office may have multiple people considering whether to take it to trial. Taking it to trial means filing an indictment and that's similar to the House bringing charges in the form of articles of impeachment. Then, a trial takes place at the end of which a jury determines if the defendant is guilty of (some of) the charges, which is similar to the Senate's role in the impeachment process.
While the constitution doesn't specify the first step of the impeachment process as explained in my answer explicitly. The start of these investigations are said to be the start of the impeachment process but do not require a specific vote. Establishing a dedicated committee to investigate a president may require a vote.
The difficulty in answering your question with a solid yes or no lies with the ill-defined start of the impeachment inquiry. When there's a vote at the beginning of the inquiry saying that the inquiry starts then it's a clear cut case. When there's no vote, then it's less clear but it doesn't mean there can't be an inquiry without a vote.
add a comment
|
Another answer claims that the current situation is unprecedented, which does seem to be true. Regardless of that, the investigation does seem to be authorized by the House Rules.
Each committee may conduct at any time such investigations and studies as it considers necessary or appropriate in the exercise of its responsibilities under rule X.
(Rule XI(1)(b)(1), page 16)
In turn, Rule X includes in the judiciary committee's responsibilities matters relating to "Subversive activities affecting the internal security of the United States" (Rule X(1)(l)(19)).
The constitution provides in Article I, section 5, that "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings...," so really the only entity that can require the House of Representatives to pass a resolution before embarking on an impeachment inquiry is the House of Representatives itself.
As noted in a comment, this extends to the remedy if it were found that the inquiry actually was in violation of the house rules: in that case, the only remedy lies with the house itself. The courts cannot intervene.
1
A curious addition would be the hypothetical legal argument that SCOTUS precedent implies also that each chamber of Congress is free to disregard its own rules as long as that chamber does not make formal invocations thereof. Precedent says SCOTUS would assume that a chamber has a required quorum if it says it does, even if you can substantively prove it did not, because only that chamber can invoke the quorum check and the judiciary has not the power to probe beyond the facial validity of the chamber's records. Of course, that precedent is a little old, might not go that way now.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
1
@zibadawatimmy indeed. I cannot imagine that the courts would invalidate an action of the house based on that action being in violation of the house rules; the house is the sole judge of the house rules.
– phoog
2 hours ago
1
I also think the courts would side with the HoR as being entitled to set its own rules, but given how the Supreme Court is stacked, who knows what they could come up with... They were quite willing to ignore international law recently theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/…
– Fizz
2 hours ago
Congress can set rules for its own dealings. Rules for actions involving others - e.g. subpoenas - might be more restricted, and might get in conflict with the Constitution (due process and so on). I bet the Supreme Court will get involved to resolve this.
– Sjoerd
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
This document from the United States House of Representatives indicates that a vote is required.
Impeachment
The House's Role
The House brings impeachment charges against federal officials as part of its oversight and investigatory responsibilities. Individual Members of the House can introduce impeachment resolutions like ordinary bills, or the House could initiate proceedings by passing a resolution authorizing an inquiry. The Committee on the Judiciary ordinarily has jurisdiction over impeachments, but special committees investigated charges before the Judiciary Committee was created in 1813. The committee then chooses whether to pursue articles of impeachment against the accused official and report them to the full House.
[Emphasis added.]
A resolution requires a vote. (The "hopper" method, by a member, does not have an inquiry.)
A referenced document from the above is,
Sullivan, John. “Chapter 27—Impeachment,” in House Practice: A Guide to the Rules, Precedents, and Procedures of the House. (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 2011).
§ 6. In General; Initiation and Referral of Charges
Generally
Under the modern practice, an impeachment is normally instituted by the House by the adoption of a resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question. This committee may, after investigation, recommend the dismissal of charges or it may recommend impeachment.
Initiation of Charges
In most cases, impeachment proceedings in the House have been initiated either by introducing a resolution of impeachment through the hopper or by offering a resolution of impeachment on the floor as a question of the privileges of the House.
Referral to Committee
Resolutions introduced through the hopper that directly call for an impeachment are referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, whereas resolutions merely calling for a committee investigation with a view toward impeachment are referred to the Committee on Rules.
§ 7. Committee Investigations
Committee impeachment investigations are governed by those portions of Rule XI relating to committee investigative and hearing procedures, and by any rules and special procedures adopted by the House and by the committee for the inquiry. ... The House may by resolution waive or supplement a requirement of these rules in a particular case. In several recent instances, the House agreed to a resolution authorizing the counsel to the Committee on the Judiciary to take depositions of witnesses in an impeachment investigation and waiving the provision of Rule XI that requires at least two committee members to be present during the taking of such testimony.
Subcommittee Investigations
An investigative subcommittee charged with an impeachment inquiry is limited to the powers expressly authorized by the House or by the full committee.
Again resolution (or it's implication) appears often in this document.
It appears, to me, that whatever Speaker Pelosi is doing, with regard to the impeachment inquiry, is unprecedented.
1
That the house may authorize an impeachment inquiry by passing a resolution does not imply that an impeachment inquiry requires such authorization.
– phoog
3 hours ago
1
@phoog - It appears to not have been done any other way, which is why I said "unprecedented".
– Rick Smith
3 hours ago
I don't see such a resolution with Clinton.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@phoog - H.Res.581 - Authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist for the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.
– Rick Smith
2 hours ago
Thanks for finding that. I was unable to do so.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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According to Wikipedia, the procedure is threefold. First, there are investigations by congressional committees. Second, the House of Representatives draws up articles of impeachment and votes on them. When these votes are passed then the defendant is impeached. Third, the Senate holds a trial. If two-thirds of the Senate votes to convict on (one of) the articles of impeachment then the defendant is removed from office.
The NYT also has an article on this, regarding the process it draws from historical examples. It writes:
In both the Nixon and the Clinton cases, the House Judiciary Committee first held an investigation and recommended articles of impeachment to the full House. In theory, however, the House of Representatives could instead set up a special panel to handle the proceedings — or just hold a floor vote on such articles without any committee vetting them.
When the full House votes on articles of impeachment, if at least one gets a majority vote, the president is impeached — which is essentially the equivalent of being indicted.
So it's normal for a presidential impeachment to be preceded by an inquiry in which congressional committees investigate by hearing witnesses.
One may compare it to a police investigation before the district attorney (DA) brings charges to the courtroom. In high profile cases, the DA's office may have multiple people considering whether to take it to trial. Taking it to trial means filing an indictment and that's similar to the House bringing charges in the form of articles of impeachment. Then, a trial takes place at the end of which a jury determines if the defendant is guilty of (some of) the charges, which is similar to the Senate's role in the impeachment process.
While the constitution doesn't specify the first step of the impeachment process as explained in my answer explicitly. The start of these investigations are said to be the start of the impeachment process but do not require a specific vote. Establishing a dedicated committee to investigate a president may require a vote.
The difficulty in answering your question with a solid yes or no lies with the ill-defined start of the impeachment inquiry. When there's a vote at the beginning of the inquiry saying that the inquiry starts then it's a clear cut case. When there's no vote, then it's less clear but it doesn't mean there can't be an inquiry without a vote.
add a comment
|
According to Wikipedia, the procedure is threefold. First, there are investigations by congressional committees. Second, the House of Representatives draws up articles of impeachment and votes on them. When these votes are passed then the defendant is impeached. Third, the Senate holds a trial. If two-thirds of the Senate votes to convict on (one of) the articles of impeachment then the defendant is removed from office.
The NYT also has an article on this, regarding the process it draws from historical examples. It writes:
In both the Nixon and the Clinton cases, the House Judiciary Committee first held an investigation and recommended articles of impeachment to the full House. In theory, however, the House of Representatives could instead set up a special panel to handle the proceedings — or just hold a floor vote on such articles without any committee vetting them.
When the full House votes on articles of impeachment, if at least one gets a majority vote, the president is impeached — which is essentially the equivalent of being indicted.
So it's normal for a presidential impeachment to be preceded by an inquiry in which congressional committees investigate by hearing witnesses.
One may compare it to a police investigation before the district attorney (DA) brings charges to the courtroom. In high profile cases, the DA's office may have multiple people considering whether to take it to trial. Taking it to trial means filing an indictment and that's similar to the House bringing charges in the form of articles of impeachment. Then, a trial takes place at the end of which a jury determines if the defendant is guilty of (some of) the charges, which is similar to the Senate's role in the impeachment process.
While the constitution doesn't specify the first step of the impeachment process as explained in my answer explicitly. The start of these investigations are said to be the start of the impeachment process but do not require a specific vote. Establishing a dedicated committee to investigate a president may require a vote.
The difficulty in answering your question with a solid yes or no lies with the ill-defined start of the impeachment inquiry. When there's a vote at the beginning of the inquiry saying that the inquiry starts then it's a clear cut case. When there's no vote, then it's less clear but it doesn't mean there can't be an inquiry without a vote.
add a comment
|
According to Wikipedia, the procedure is threefold. First, there are investigations by congressional committees. Second, the House of Representatives draws up articles of impeachment and votes on them. When these votes are passed then the defendant is impeached. Third, the Senate holds a trial. If two-thirds of the Senate votes to convict on (one of) the articles of impeachment then the defendant is removed from office.
The NYT also has an article on this, regarding the process it draws from historical examples. It writes:
In both the Nixon and the Clinton cases, the House Judiciary Committee first held an investigation and recommended articles of impeachment to the full House. In theory, however, the House of Representatives could instead set up a special panel to handle the proceedings — or just hold a floor vote on such articles without any committee vetting them.
When the full House votes on articles of impeachment, if at least one gets a majority vote, the president is impeached — which is essentially the equivalent of being indicted.
So it's normal for a presidential impeachment to be preceded by an inquiry in which congressional committees investigate by hearing witnesses.
One may compare it to a police investigation before the district attorney (DA) brings charges to the courtroom. In high profile cases, the DA's office may have multiple people considering whether to take it to trial. Taking it to trial means filing an indictment and that's similar to the House bringing charges in the form of articles of impeachment. Then, a trial takes place at the end of which a jury determines if the defendant is guilty of (some of) the charges, which is similar to the Senate's role in the impeachment process.
While the constitution doesn't specify the first step of the impeachment process as explained in my answer explicitly. The start of these investigations are said to be the start of the impeachment process but do not require a specific vote. Establishing a dedicated committee to investigate a president may require a vote.
The difficulty in answering your question with a solid yes or no lies with the ill-defined start of the impeachment inquiry. When there's a vote at the beginning of the inquiry saying that the inquiry starts then it's a clear cut case. When there's no vote, then it's less clear but it doesn't mean there can't be an inquiry without a vote.
According to Wikipedia, the procedure is threefold. First, there are investigations by congressional committees. Second, the House of Representatives draws up articles of impeachment and votes on them. When these votes are passed then the defendant is impeached. Third, the Senate holds a trial. If two-thirds of the Senate votes to convict on (one of) the articles of impeachment then the defendant is removed from office.
The NYT also has an article on this, regarding the process it draws from historical examples. It writes:
In both the Nixon and the Clinton cases, the House Judiciary Committee first held an investigation and recommended articles of impeachment to the full House. In theory, however, the House of Representatives could instead set up a special panel to handle the proceedings — or just hold a floor vote on such articles without any committee vetting them.
When the full House votes on articles of impeachment, if at least one gets a majority vote, the president is impeached — which is essentially the equivalent of being indicted.
So it's normal for a presidential impeachment to be preceded by an inquiry in which congressional committees investigate by hearing witnesses.
One may compare it to a police investigation before the district attorney (DA) brings charges to the courtroom. In high profile cases, the DA's office may have multiple people considering whether to take it to trial. Taking it to trial means filing an indictment and that's similar to the House bringing charges in the form of articles of impeachment. Then, a trial takes place at the end of which a jury determines if the defendant is guilty of (some of) the charges, which is similar to the Senate's role in the impeachment process.
While the constitution doesn't specify the first step of the impeachment process as explained in my answer explicitly. The start of these investigations are said to be the start of the impeachment process but do not require a specific vote. Establishing a dedicated committee to investigate a president may require a vote.
The difficulty in answering your question with a solid yes or no lies with the ill-defined start of the impeachment inquiry. When there's a vote at the beginning of the inquiry saying that the inquiry starts then it's a clear cut case. When there's no vote, then it's less clear but it doesn't mean there can't be an inquiry without a vote.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
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Another answer claims that the current situation is unprecedented, which does seem to be true. Regardless of that, the investigation does seem to be authorized by the House Rules.
Each committee may conduct at any time such investigations and studies as it considers necessary or appropriate in the exercise of its responsibilities under rule X.
(Rule XI(1)(b)(1), page 16)
In turn, Rule X includes in the judiciary committee's responsibilities matters relating to "Subversive activities affecting the internal security of the United States" (Rule X(1)(l)(19)).
The constitution provides in Article I, section 5, that "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings...," so really the only entity that can require the House of Representatives to pass a resolution before embarking on an impeachment inquiry is the House of Representatives itself.
As noted in a comment, this extends to the remedy if it were found that the inquiry actually was in violation of the house rules: in that case, the only remedy lies with the house itself. The courts cannot intervene.
1
A curious addition would be the hypothetical legal argument that SCOTUS precedent implies also that each chamber of Congress is free to disregard its own rules as long as that chamber does not make formal invocations thereof. Precedent says SCOTUS would assume that a chamber has a required quorum if it says it does, even if you can substantively prove it did not, because only that chamber can invoke the quorum check and the judiciary has not the power to probe beyond the facial validity of the chamber's records. Of course, that precedent is a little old, might not go that way now.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
1
@zibadawatimmy indeed. I cannot imagine that the courts would invalidate an action of the house based on that action being in violation of the house rules; the house is the sole judge of the house rules.
– phoog
2 hours ago
1
I also think the courts would side with the HoR as being entitled to set its own rules, but given how the Supreme Court is stacked, who knows what they could come up with... They were quite willing to ignore international law recently theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/…
– Fizz
2 hours ago
Congress can set rules for its own dealings. Rules for actions involving others - e.g. subpoenas - might be more restricted, and might get in conflict with the Constitution (due process and so on). I bet the Supreme Court will get involved to resolve this.
– Sjoerd
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Another answer claims that the current situation is unprecedented, which does seem to be true. Regardless of that, the investigation does seem to be authorized by the House Rules.
Each committee may conduct at any time such investigations and studies as it considers necessary or appropriate in the exercise of its responsibilities under rule X.
(Rule XI(1)(b)(1), page 16)
In turn, Rule X includes in the judiciary committee's responsibilities matters relating to "Subversive activities affecting the internal security of the United States" (Rule X(1)(l)(19)).
The constitution provides in Article I, section 5, that "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings...," so really the only entity that can require the House of Representatives to pass a resolution before embarking on an impeachment inquiry is the House of Representatives itself.
As noted in a comment, this extends to the remedy if it were found that the inquiry actually was in violation of the house rules: in that case, the only remedy lies with the house itself. The courts cannot intervene.
1
A curious addition would be the hypothetical legal argument that SCOTUS precedent implies also that each chamber of Congress is free to disregard its own rules as long as that chamber does not make formal invocations thereof. Precedent says SCOTUS would assume that a chamber has a required quorum if it says it does, even if you can substantively prove it did not, because only that chamber can invoke the quorum check and the judiciary has not the power to probe beyond the facial validity of the chamber's records. Of course, that precedent is a little old, might not go that way now.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
1
@zibadawatimmy indeed. I cannot imagine that the courts would invalidate an action of the house based on that action being in violation of the house rules; the house is the sole judge of the house rules.
– phoog
2 hours ago
1
I also think the courts would side with the HoR as being entitled to set its own rules, but given how the Supreme Court is stacked, who knows what they could come up with... They were quite willing to ignore international law recently theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/…
– Fizz
2 hours ago
Congress can set rules for its own dealings. Rules for actions involving others - e.g. subpoenas - might be more restricted, and might get in conflict with the Constitution (due process and so on). I bet the Supreme Court will get involved to resolve this.
– Sjoerd
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Another answer claims that the current situation is unprecedented, which does seem to be true. Regardless of that, the investigation does seem to be authorized by the House Rules.
Each committee may conduct at any time such investigations and studies as it considers necessary or appropriate in the exercise of its responsibilities under rule X.
(Rule XI(1)(b)(1), page 16)
In turn, Rule X includes in the judiciary committee's responsibilities matters relating to "Subversive activities affecting the internal security of the United States" (Rule X(1)(l)(19)).
The constitution provides in Article I, section 5, that "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings...," so really the only entity that can require the House of Representatives to pass a resolution before embarking on an impeachment inquiry is the House of Representatives itself.
As noted in a comment, this extends to the remedy if it were found that the inquiry actually was in violation of the house rules: in that case, the only remedy lies with the house itself. The courts cannot intervene.
Another answer claims that the current situation is unprecedented, which does seem to be true. Regardless of that, the investigation does seem to be authorized by the House Rules.
Each committee may conduct at any time such investigations and studies as it considers necessary or appropriate in the exercise of its responsibilities under rule X.
(Rule XI(1)(b)(1), page 16)
In turn, Rule X includes in the judiciary committee's responsibilities matters relating to "Subversive activities affecting the internal security of the United States" (Rule X(1)(l)(19)).
The constitution provides in Article I, section 5, that "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings...," so really the only entity that can require the House of Representatives to pass a resolution before embarking on an impeachment inquiry is the House of Representatives itself.
As noted in a comment, this extends to the remedy if it were found that the inquiry actually was in violation of the house rules: in that case, the only remedy lies with the house itself. The courts cannot intervene.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
phoogphoog
5,6182 gold badges18 silver badges33 bronze badges
5,6182 gold badges18 silver badges33 bronze badges
1
A curious addition would be the hypothetical legal argument that SCOTUS precedent implies also that each chamber of Congress is free to disregard its own rules as long as that chamber does not make formal invocations thereof. Precedent says SCOTUS would assume that a chamber has a required quorum if it says it does, even if you can substantively prove it did not, because only that chamber can invoke the quorum check and the judiciary has not the power to probe beyond the facial validity of the chamber's records. Of course, that precedent is a little old, might not go that way now.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
1
@zibadawatimmy indeed. I cannot imagine that the courts would invalidate an action of the house based on that action being in violation of the house rules; the house is the sole judge of the house rules.
– phoog
2 hours ago
1
I also think the courts would side with the HoR as being entitled to set its own rules, but given how the Supreme Court is stacked, who knows what they could come up with... They were quite willing to ignore international law recently theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/…
– Fizz
2 hours ago
Congress can set rules for its own dealings. Rules for actions involving others - e.g. subpoenas - might be more restricted, and might get in conflict with the Constitution (due process and so on). I bet the Supreme Court will get involved to resolve this.
– Sjoerd
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
1
A curious addition would be the hypothetical legal argument that SCOTUS precedent implies also that each chamber of Congress is free to disregard its own rules as long as that chamber does not make formal invocations thereof. Precedent says SCOTUS would assume that a chamber has a required quorum if it says it does, even if you can substantively prove it did not, because only that chamber can invoke the quorum check and the judiciary has not the power to probe beyond the facial validity of the chamber's records. Of course, that precedent is a little old, might not go that way now.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
1
@zibadawatimmy indeed. I cannot imagine that the courts would invalidate an action of the house based on that action being in violation of the house rules; the house is the sole judge of the house rules.
– phoog
2 hours ago
1
I also think the courts would side with the HoR as being entitled to set its own rules, but given how the Supreme Court is stacked, who knows what they could come up with... They were quite willing to ignore international law recently theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/…
– Fizz
2 hours ago
Congress can set rules for its own dealings. Rules for actions involving others - e.g. subpoenas - might be more restricted, and might get in conflict with the Constitution (due process and so on). I bet the Supreme Court will get involved to resolve this.
– Sjoerd
1 hour ago
1
1
A curious addition would be the hypothetical legal argument that SCOTUS precedent implies also that each chamber of Congress is free to disregard its own rules as long as that chamber does not make formal invocations thereof. Precedent says SCOTUS would assume that a chamber has a required quorum if it says it does, even if you can substantively prove it did not, because only that chamber can invoke the quorum check and the judiciary has not the power to probe beyond the facial validity of the chamber's records. Of course, that precedent is a little old, might not go that way now.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
A curious addition would be the hypothetical legal argument that SCOTUS precedent implies also that each chamber of Congress is free to disregard its own rules as long as that chamber does not make formal invocations thereof. Precedent says SCOTUS would assume that a chamber has a required quorum if it says it does, even if you can substantively prove it did not, because only that chamber can invoke the quorum check and the judiciary has not the power to probe beyond the facial validity of the chamber's records. Of course, that precedent is a little old, might not go that way now.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
1
1
@zibadawatimmy indeed. I cannot imagine that the courts would invalidate an action of the house based on that action being in violation of the house rules; the house is the sole judge of the house rules.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@zibadawatimmy indeed. I cannot imagine that the courts would invalidate an action of the house based on that action being in violation of the house rules; the house is the sole judge of the house rules.
– phoog
2 hours ago
1
1
I also think the courts would side with the HoR as being entitled to set its own rules, but given how the Supreme Court is stacked, who knows what they could come up with... They were quite willing to ignore international law recently theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/…
– Fizz
2 hours ago
I also think the courts would side with the HoR as being entitled to set its own rules, but given how the Supreme Court is stacked, who knows what they could come up with... They were quite willing to ignore international law recently theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/…
– Fizz
2 hours ago
Congress can set rules for its own dealings. Rules for actions involving others - e.g. subpoenas - might be more restricted, and might get in conflict with the Constitution (due process and so on). I bet the Supreme Court will get involved to resolve this.
– Sjoerd
1 hour ago
Congress can set rules for its own dealings. Rules for actions involving others - e.g. subpoenas - might be more restricted, and might get in conflict with the Constitution (due process and so on). I bet the Supreme Court will get involved to resolve this.
– Sjoerd
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
This document from the United States House of Representatives indicates that a vote is required.
Impeachment
The House's Role
The House brings impeachment charges against federal officials as part of its oversight and investigatory responsibilities. Individual Members of the House can introduce impeachment resolutions like ordinary bills, or the House could initiate proceedings by passing a resolution authorizing an inquiry. The Committee on the Judiciary ordinarily has jurisdiction over impeachments, but special committees investigated charges before the Judiciary Committee was created in 1813. The committee then chooses whether to pursue articles of impeachment against the accused official and report them to the full House.
[Emphasis added.]
A resolution requires a vote. (The "hopper" method, by a member, does not have an inquiry.)
A referenced document from the above is,
Sullivan, John. “Chapter 27—Impeachment,” in House Practice: A Guide to the Rules, Precedents, and Procedures of the House. (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 2011).
§ 6. In General; Initiation and Referral of Charges
Generally
Under the modern practice, an impeachment is normally instituted by the House by the adoption of a resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question. This committee may, after investigation, recommend the dismissal of charges or it may recommend impeachment.
Initiation of Charges
In most cases, impeachment proceedings in the House have been initiated either by introducing a resolution of impeachment through the hopper or by offering a resolution of impeachment on the floor as a question of the privileges of the House.
Referral to Committee
Resolutions introduced through the hopper that directly call for an impeachment are referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, whereas resolutions merely calling for a committee investigation with a view toward impeachment are referred to the Committee on Rules.
§ 7. Committee Investigations
Committee impeachment investigations are governed by those portions of Rule XI relating to committee investigative and hearing procedures, and by any rules and special procedures adopted by the House and by the committee for the inquiry. ... The House may by resolution waive or supplement a requirement of these rules in a particular case. In several recent instances, the House agreed to a resolution authorizing the counsel to the Committee on the Judiciary to take depositions of witnesses in an impeachment investigation and waiving the provision of Rule XI that requires at least two committee members to be present during the taking of such testimony.
Subcommittee Investigations
An investigative subcommittee charged with an impeachment inquiry is limited to the powers expressly authorized by the House or by the full committee.
Again resolution (or it's implication) appears often in this document.
It appears, to me, that whatever Speaker Pelosi is doing, with regard to the impeachment inquiry, is unprecedented.
1
That the house may authorize an impeachment inquiry by passing a resolution does not imply that an impeachment inquiry requires such authorization.
– phoog
3 hours ago
1
@phoog - It appears to not have been done any other way, which is why I said "unprecedented".
– Rick Smith
3 hours ago
I don't see such a resolution with Clinton.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@phoog - H.Res.581 - Authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist for the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.
– Rick Smith
2 hours ago
Thanks for finding that. I was unable to do so.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
This document from the United States House of Representatives indicates that a vote is required.
Impeachment
The House's Role
The House brings impeachment charges against federal officials as part of its oversight and investigatory responsibilities. Individual Members of the House can introduce impeachment resolutions like ordinary bills, or the House could initiate proceedings by passing a resolution authorizing an inquiry. The Committee on the Judiciary ordinarily has jurisdiction over impeachments, but special committees investigated charges before the Judiciary Committee was created in 1813. The committee then chooses whether to pursue articles of impeachment against the accused official and report them to the full House.
[Emphasis added.]
A resolution requires a vote. (The "hopper" method, by a member, does not have an inquiry.)
A referenced document from the above is,
Sullivan, John. “Chapter 27—Impeachment,” in House Practice: A Guide to the Rules, Precedents, and Procedures of the House. (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 2011).
§ 6. In General; Initiation and Referral of Charges
Generally
Under the modern practice, an impeachment is normally instituted by the House by the adoption of a resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question. This committee may, after investigation, recommend the dismissal of charges or it may recommend impeachment.
Initiation of Charges
In most cases, impeachment proceedings in the House have been initiated either by introducing a resolution of impeachment through the hopper or by offering a resolution of impeachment on the floor as a question of the privileges of the House.
Referral to Committee
Resolutions introduced through the hopper that directly call for an impeachment are referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, whereas resolutions merely calling for a committee investigation with a view toward impeachment are referred to the Committee on Rules.
§ 7. Committee Investigations
Committee impeachment investigations are governed by those portions of Rule XI relating to committee investigative and hearing procedures, and by any rules and special procedures adopted by the House and by the committee for the inquiry. ... The House may by resolution waive or supplement a requirement of these rules in a particular case. In several recent instances, the House agreed to a resolution authorizing the counsel to the Committee on the Judiciary to take depositions of witnesses in an impeachment investigation and waiving the provision of Rule XI that requires at least two committee members to be present during the taking of such testimony.
Subcommittee Investigations
An investigative subcommittee charged with an impeachment inquiry is limited to the powers expressly authorized by the House or by the full committee.
Again resolution (or it's implication) appears often in this document.
It appears, to me, that whatever Speaker Pelosi is doing, with regard to the impeachment inquiry, is unprecedented.
1
That the house may authorize an impeachment inquiry by passing a resolution does not imply that an impeachment inquiry requires such authorization.
– phoog
3 hours ago
1
@phoog - It appears to not have been done any other way, which is why I said "unprecedented".
– Rick Smith
3 hours ago
I don't see such a resolution with Clinton.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@phoog - H.Res.581 - Authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist for the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.
– Rick Smith
2 hours ago
Thanks for finding that. I was unable to do so.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
This document from the United States House of Representatives indicates that a vote is required.
Impeachment
The House's Role
The House brings impeachment charges against federal officials as part of its oversight and investigatory responsibilities. Individual Members of the House can introduce impeachment resolutions like ordinary bills, or the House could initiate proceedings by passing a resolution authorizing an inquiry. The Committee on the Judiciary ordinarily has jurisdiction over impeachments, but special committees investigated charges before the Judiciary Committee was created in 1813. The committee then chooses whether to pursue articles of impeachment against the accused official and report them to the full House.
[Emphasis added.]
A resolution requires a vote. (The "hopper" method, by a member, does not have an inquiry.)
A referenced document from the above is,
Sullivan, John. “Chapter 27—Impeachment,” in House Practice: A Guide to the Rules, Precedents, and Procedures of the House. (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 2011).
§ 6. In General; Initiation and Referral of Charges
Generally
Under the modern practice, an impeachment is normally instituted by the House by the adoption of a resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question. This committee may, after investigation, recommend the dismissal of charges or it may recommend impeachment.
Initiation of Charges
In most cases, impeachment proceedings in the House have been initiated either by introducing a resolution of impeachment through the hopper or by offering a resolution of impeachment on the floor as a question of the privileges of the House.
Referral to Committee
Resolutions introduced through the hopper that directly call for an impeachment are referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, whereas resolutions merely calling for a committee investigation with a view toward impeachment are referred to the Committee on Rules.
§ 7. Committee Investigations
Committee impeachment investigations are governed by those portions of Rule XI relating to committee investigative and hearing procedures, and by any rules and special procedures adopted by the House and by the committee for the inquiry. ... The House may by resolution waive or supplement a requirement of these rules in a particular case. In several recent instances, the House agreed to a resolution authorizing the counsel to the Committee on the Judiciary to take depositions of witnesses in an impeachment investigation and waiving the provision of Rule XI that requires at least two committee members to be present during the taking of such testimony.
Subcommittee Investigations
An investigative subcommittee charged with an impeachment inquiry is limited to the powers expressly authorized by the House or by the full committee.
Again resolution (or it's implication) appears often in this document.
It appears, to me, that whatever Speaker Pelosi is doing, with regard to the impeachment inquiry, is unprecedented.
Does the US require a House vote to begin an impeachment inquiry?
This document from the United States House of Representatives indicates that a vote is required.
Impeachment
The House's Role
The House brings impeachment charges against federal officials as part of its oversight and investigatory responsibilities. Individual Members of the House can introduce impeachment resolutions like ordinary bills, or the House could initiate proceedings by passing a resolution authorizing an inquiry. The Committee on the Judiciary ordinarily has jurisdiction over impeachments, but special committees investigated charges before the Judiciary Committee was created in 1813. The committee then chooses whether to pursue articles of impeachment against the accused official and report them to the full House.
[Emphasis added.]
A resolution requires a vote. (The "hopper" method, by a member, does not have an inquiry.)
A referenced document from the above is,
Sullivan, John. “Chapter 27—Impeachment,” in House Practice: A Guide to the Rules, Precedents, and Procedures of the House. (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 2011).
§ 6. In General; Initiation and Referral of Charges
Generally
Under the modern practice, an impeachment is normally instituted by the House by the adoption of a resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question. This committee may, after investigation, recommend the dismissal of charges or it may recommend impeachment.
Initiation of Charges
In most cases, impeachment proceedings in the House have been initiated either by introducing a resolution of impeachment through the hopper or by offering a resolution of impeachment on the floor as a question of the privileges of the House.
Referral to Committee
Resolutions introduced through the hopper that directly call for an impeachment are referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, whereas resolutions merely calling for a committee investigation with a view toward impeachment are referred to the Committee on Rules.
§ 7. Committee Investigations
Committee impeachment investigations are governed by those portions of Rule XI relating to committee investigative and hearing procedures, and by any rules and special procedures adopted by the House and by the committee for the inquiry. ... The House may by resolution waive or supplement a requirement of these rules in a particular case. In several recent instances, the House agreed to a resolution authorizing the counsel to the Committee on the Judiciary to take depositions of witnesses in an impeachment investigation and waiving the provision of Rule XI that requires at least two committee members to be present during the taking of such testimony.
Subcommittee Investigations
An investigative subcommittee charged with an impeachment inquiry is limited to the powers expressly authorized by the House or by the full committee.
Again resolution (or it's implication) appears often in this document.
It appears, to me, that whatever Speaker Pelosi is doing, with regard to the impeachment inquiry, is unprecedented.
answered 4 hours ago
Rick SmithRick Smith
4,4101 gold badge10 silver badges32 bronze badges
4,4101 gold badge10 silver badges32 bronze badges
1
That the house may authorize an impeachment inquiry by passing a resolution does not imply that an impeachment inquiry requires such authorization.
– phoog
3 hours ago
1
@phoog - It appears to not have been done any other way, which is why I said "unprecedented".
– Rick Smith
3 hours ago
I don't see such a resolution with Clinton.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@phoog - H.Res.581 - Authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist for the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.
– Rick Smith
2 hours ago
Thanks for finding that. I was unable to do so.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
That the house may authorize an impeachment inquiry by passing a resolution does not imply that an impeachment inquiry requires such authorization.
– phoog
3 hours ago
1
@phoog - It appears to not have been done any other way, which is why I said "unprecedented".
– Rick Smith
3 hours ago
I don't see such a resolution with Clinton.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@phoog - H.Res.581 - Authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist for the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.
– Rick Smith
2 hours ago
Thanks for finding that. I was unable to do so.
– phoog
2 hours ago
1
1
That the house may authorize an impeachment inquiry by passing a resolution does not imply that an impeachment inquiry requires such authorization.
– phoog
3 hours ago
That the house may authorize an impeachment inquiry by passing a resolution does not imply that an impeachment inquiry requires such authorization.
– phoog
3 hours ago
1
1
@phoog - It appears to not have been done any other way, which is why I said "unprecedented".
– Rick Smith
3 hours ago
@phoog - It appears to not have been done any other way, which is why I said "unprecedented".
– Rick Smith
3 hours ago
I don't see such a resolution with Clinton.
– phoog
2 hours ago
I don't see such a resolution with Clinton.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@phoog - H.Res.581 - Authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist for the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.
– Rick Smith
2 hours ago
@phoog - H.Res.581 - Authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist for the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.
– Rick Smith
2 hours ago
Thanks for finding that. I was unable to do so.
– phoog
2 hours ago
Thanks for finding that. I was unable to do so.
– phoog
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
Anemoi is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Anemoi is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Anemoi is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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The White House has now sent an official letter to the HoR that they refuse to cooperate with the inquiry in part because of this non-vote. The way you asked this question is asking us to determine who is right in interpreting the rules basically. It's probably too close "primarily opinion based" right now. I guess courts will decide and/or it will be another showdown between the HoR and the WH with usual government shutdown.
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Fizz that letter displays a wilful misunderstanding of the impeachment process. There is a point in that process when the president is afforded the opportunity to call and cross examine witnesses, which is during the trial in the Senate, should it ever get that far.
– phoog
2 hours ago