What organs or modifications would be needed for an animal not to require sleep?What modifications would be needed to allow humans to survive in space with limited protective gear?What modifications are needed for my sea creature to able to hold its breath for weeks?What is the minimum human body size needed for respiration?Post apocalyptic science based storyWhat muscular changes would a different hand structure require and what would be the benefits?For what reasons would an animal species NOT cross a *horizontal* land bridge?Are there certain qualities needed for an animal to be tamed?What configuration would provide the most protection for a male dragon's reproductive organs against mechanical and chemical attacks?
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What organs or modifications would be needed for an animal not to require sleep?
What modifications would be needed to allow humans to survive in space with limited protective gear?What modifications are needed for my sea creature to able to hold its breath for weeks?What is the minimum human body size needed for respiration?Post apocalyptic science based storyWhat muscular changes would a different hand structure require and what would be the benefits?For what reasons would an animal species NOT cross a *horizontal* land bridge?Are there certain qualities needed for an animal to be tamed?What configuration would provide the most protection for a male dragon's reproductive organs against mechanical and chemical attacks?
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I mean literally not sleeping for the rest of their life, not like giraffes that only require short rests, or dolphins that can sleep with half of their brain at a time, or like otters and sharks that sleep walk.
An external solution like drinking caffeine or using other drugs is out of the question.
I don't mind, however, if one of the creature's organs can produce caffeine or another chemical that allows the creature to never sleep, but please elaborate on how it would work instead of merely hand-waving it.
What organs would need to be developed in a real-life animal for it to never need to sleep?
science-based biology creature-design xenobiology
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I mean literally not sleeping for the rest of their life, not like giraffes that only require short rests, or dolphins that can sleep with half of their brain at a time, or like otters and sharks that sleep walk.
An external solution like drinking caffeine or using other drugs is out of the question.
I don't mind, however, if one of the creature's organs can produce caffeine or another chemical that allows the creature to never sleep, but please elaborate on how it would work instead of merely hand-waving it.
What organs would need to be developed in a real-life animal for it to never need to sleep?
science-based biology creature-design xenobiology
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1
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Its not about organs or chemicals, but about radically overhauling a body plan that requires regular sleep or risks breaking down. You can't get there from here; you'll need to design some new things that never needed sleep in the first place.
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– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
2
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The brains of vertebrates need sleep, or else they malfunction with very serious effects. We don't know why exactly the brains of vertebrates need sleep; all we know is that they do, and that nothing we tried can replace sleep.
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– AlexP
8 hours ago
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caffeine can make you never need sleep, in fact trying would be lethal.
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– John
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I mean literally not sleeping for the rest of their life, not like giraffes that only require short rests, or dolphins that can sleep with half of their brain at a time, or like otters and sharks that sleep walk.
An external solution like drinking caffeine or using other drugs is out of the question.
I don't mind, however, if one of the creature's organs can produce caffeine or another chemical that allows the creature to never sleep, but please elaborate on how it would work instead of merely hand-waving it.
What organs would need to be developed in a real-life animal for it to never need to sleep?
science-based biology creature-design xenobiology
$endgroup$
I mean literally not sleeping for the rest of their life, not like giraffes that only require short rests, or dolphins that can sleep with half of their brain at a time, or like otters and sharks that sleep walk.
An external solution like drinking caffeine or using other drugs is out of the question.
I don't mind, however, if one of the creature's organs can produce caffeine or another chemical that allows the creature to never sleep, but please elaborate on how it would work instead of merely hand-waving it.
What organs would need to be developed in a real-life animal for it to never need to sleep?
science-based biology creature-design xenobiology
science-based biology creature-design xenobiology
edited 23 mins ago
jdunlop
8,9601 gold badge21 silver badges50 bronze badges
8,9601 gold badge21 silver badges50 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1,2947 silver badges27 bronze badges
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1
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Its not about organs or chemicals, but about radically overhauling a body plan that requires regular sleep or risks breaking down. You can't get there from here; you'll need to design some new things that never needed sleep in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The brains of vertebrates need sleep, or else they malfunction with very serious effects. We don't know why exactly the brains of vertebrates need sleep; all we know is that they do, and that nothing we tried can replace sleep.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
caffeine can make you never need sleep, in fact trying would be lethal.
$endgroup$
– John
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
$begingroup$
Its not about organs or chemicals, but about radically overhauling a body plan that requires regular sleep or risks breaking down. You can't get there from here; you'll need to design some new things that never needed sleep in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The brains of vertebrates need sleep, or else they malfunction with very serious effects. We don't know why exactly the brains of vertebrates need sleep; all we know is that they do, and that nothing we tried can replace sleep.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
caffeine can make you never need sleep, in fact trying would be lethal.
$endgroup$
– John
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Its not about organs or chemicals, but about radically overhauling a body plan that requires regular sleep or risks breaking down. You can't get there from here; you'll need to design some new things that never needed sleep in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Its not about organs or chemicals, but about radically overhauling a body plan that requires regular sleep or risks breaking down. You can't get there from here; you'll need to design some new things that never needed sleep in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
The brains of vertebrates need sleep, or else they malfunction with very serious effects. We don't know why exactly the brains of vertebrates need sleep; all we know is that they do, and that nothing we tried can replace sleep.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The brains of vertebrates need sleep, or else they malfunction with very serious effects. We don't know why exactly the brains of vertebrates need sleep; all we know is that they do, and that nothing we tried can replace sleep.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
caffeine can make you never need sleep, in fact trying would be lethal.
$endgroup$
– John
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
caffeine can make you never need sleep, in fact trying would be lethal.
$endgroup$
– John
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
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Just use an alien.
If it has a large brain you can't get around sleep, every organism we know of with a brain that is enlarged (complex at all) sleeps. there is just no escaping it. As long as you use earth life you have no options. But we don't know why we need it, which leaves you an out.
If your lifeform evolved on a different planet they may not need sleep, you can literally just say it has drastically different neurochemistry/biochemistry and does not need sleep and no one can argue since we don't know why earth life needs it.
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yeah but thats to handwavy, i need explanation on why such different neurochemistry/biochemistry make it not need sleep.
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– Li Jun
7 hours ago
2
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@LiJun sorry there just isn't an answer, we really don't know why brains need sleep, there are a lot of ideas, but nothing solid. We don't even know everything the brain does while asleep. We know they need it but not why. Any answer you give will be by definition handwavy.
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– John
7 hours ago
1
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@LiJun : Handwavy (to one degree or another) is probably the best you can get on this one unfortunately.
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– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment
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Polycephaly is a medical condition, in which an animal has multiple heads. This is a special type of conjoined twin. 2 is the most common form, but there is at least 1 case of 3 heads documented (a turtle).
In many cases, each head is capable of sleeping independently of the other, allowing your Biological Creature to function without turpor.
In some cases, each head controls a different part of the body (e.g. Abby and Bittany Hensel, born 1990, each control one hand and one leg. Interestingly, if one of them develops stomach ache, the other twin experiences the sensation instead).
In other cases, both heads are able to control all-or-most of the body - however, when they disagree on an action, this can cause the body to "lock up" and paralyse.
What you require is a situation where both heads can control the whole body, and sleep independently.
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add a comment
|
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You don't need new organs you just need a few tweaks to the way the brain operates & Dolphins have already solved this one for you, obviously they sink if they stop swimming & if they sink they drown so they can't sleep, well they do, but they sleep one hemisphere of their brain at a time.
There's some evidence that dolphins can display slightly different personalities depending on which half (or none) of their brain is sleeping, which is interesting but perhaps not relevant :)
Ah! but on a re-read I see you don't want that option.
Well there's also a commercially available drug in the US that stops you needing any sleep, there was a documentary I saw on it a few years ago.
I can't remember what either that drug or the documentary was called but you might find this article helpful.
Sleep is largely a function of biochemical process in the brain so simply manipulating the genes to adjust the Adenosine receptors to prevent uptake of this neurotransmitter or reduce or else prevent production of it might do the trick.
A downside is that sleep is an integral part of transferring short term memory to long term memory & as far as we know no organism that uses long term memory can do without it indefinitely.
I don't know 'why' the brain needs sleep to transfer short term memory to long term but as sleep is a such a vulnerable state to be in there must be strong evolutionary pressure against any alternative to the dolphins for it not to already have appeared.
Long & the short is the dolphin answer seems the best option to get the 'appearance' of what you ask for despite the fact you remove that option in your question.
But there's no reason to stick to the two hemisphere plan of the the Dolphins (presumably shared by whales).
You could split the brain into four or more with overlapping sleep patterns such that each part (eventually) shares sleep time with each other part, you can use that to plausibly say long term memory is duplicated to all parts of the brain during this time to avoid any long term variation in memory & personality during different parts of their sleep pattern.
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the issue is dolphins do go into torpor and for much longer than a mammal of the same sizes sleeps.
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– John
7 hours ago
1
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@John : Well yes, in human terms one or other half of their brain is asleep for up to 16 hours a day & both sides are awake at the same time for only 8 hours but a mammal can operate with only one hemisphere (the other having been surgically excised) just as well as if it had both halves, after a period of adjustment following the loss.
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– Pelinore
7 hours ago
2
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@Pelinore "Just as well" is patently wrong. "can get by" is closer to the truth, and that's only true with humans who have a huge highly plastic brain plus large external support systems. dolphins with one side sleeping are almost completely unreactive, with only the bare minimum of functions happening. You are also wrong about how long a dolphin sleeps for, each half of the brain sleeps for about 4 hours, for around 8 hours of total torpor..
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– John
7 hours ago
1
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@John : thanks for the 4 hours, as I said 'in human terms' because I didn't know what the dolphins was :)
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– Pelinore
7 hours ago
1
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@John : I think it's safe to assume the OP's protagonists are going to 'have a huge highly plastic brain' :)
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– Pelinore
7 hours ago
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show 10 more comments
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Sleep is mostly required for highly intelligent lifeforms or lifeforms with complex memory functions as far as I know (Bacterias don't sleep). This is different from physical rest, which is for conserving energy. As such a life form with two independent brains that take turns, would probably not need to sleep, since each brain sleeps half the time in turn, despite the creature itself being awake. Both brains need to have identical functions, the only problem being sharing/syncing of memories between the two. Otherwise you will end up with a race with dissociative personality disorder. As for chemicals to prevent sleeping, that's just overdrafting, the brain will eventually shutdown , maybe even permanently.
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[Fiction]
Sleep is a natural stress reliever. In humans, and even in animals, you can expect a lack of sleep to lead to a situation of Hypertension. So, any sentient animal species that doesn't sleep at all has to be really stressed, which means its lifespan will be short lived.
Next, not sleeping is akin to an extreme case of insomnia which is biologically evolved in your case.
Since insomnia is a common occurence in humans, you can look into conditions that can trigger it/ break the regular sleep cycle, and factors that can keep it broken.
For example: In below, the bodily chemicals/ hormones work in tandem to affect the regular sleep in humans:
Exposure to light stimulates a nerve pathway from the retina in the eye to an area in the brain called the hypothalamus. There, a special center called the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) initiates signals to other parts of the brain that control hormones, body temperature and other functions that play a role in making us feel sleepy or wide awake.
Melatonin is a natural hormone made by your body's pineal (pih-knee-uhl) gland. This is a pea-sized gland located just above the middle of the brain. During the day the pineal is inactive. When the sun goes down and darkness occurs, the pineal is "turned on" by the SCN and begins to actively produce melatonin, which is released into the blood. Usually, this occurs around 9 pm. As a result, melatonin levels in the blood rise sharply and you begin to feel less alert.
So, all you need to do is establish interference in a similar system/ remove the hormone, and your fictional species can go sleepless.
Next, give this species a short life, and an early reproductive age, where the stress they have on themselves doesn't affect their reproductive abilities by much yet.
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Brain with three hemispheres
The state in dolphins and some birds that could keep some functions while sleeping is achieved by working with only one of the hemispheres of their brains while in "sleep state" the other part is resting.
If you add an extra hemisphere that would support the "awake" part with their normal functions you could cycle between them to achieve a "non-sleep state" during most part of the life of the creature that you are designing.
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While multi-brain and multi-hemisphere answers have been posed, they all result in some lose of function while one part of the cognitive system is down. This seems against what the OP is looking for since he does not want dolphin style torpor.
However, computer scientists have already devised a number of systems called RAID controllers to be used by servers to replicate data across multiple hard drives in case of a disk failure or scheduled maintenance. When you consider sleep as analogous to server maintenance, it becomes obvious that a brain could use such a system to overcome the need for sleep with a somewhat larger brain. By replicating functionality, you could basically have two brains, but when one brain is ready to sleep, it wakes up the other brain copies info to it first, and then goes to sleep. In this fashion, you would not notice a performance drop-off or change in personality because both brains are doing the same things, just at different times.
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7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Just use an alien.
If it has a large brain you can't get around sleep, every organism we know of with a brain that is enlarged (complex at all) sleeps. there is just no escaping it. As long as you use earth life you have no options. But we don't know why we need it, which leaves you an out.
If your lifeform evolved on a different planet they may not need sleep, you can literally just say it has drastically different neurochemistry/biochemistry and does not need sleep and no one can argue since we don't know why earth life needs it.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
yeah but thats to handwavy, i need explanation on why such different neurochemistry/biochemistry make it not need sleep.
$endgroup$
– Li Jun
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@LiJun sorry there just isn't an answer, we really don't know why brains need sleep, there are a lot of ideas, but nothing solid. We don't even know everything the brain does while asleep. We know they need it but not why. Any answer you give will be by definition handwavy.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@LiJun : Handwavy (to one degree or another) is probably the best you can get on this one unfortunately.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Just use an alien.
If it has a large brain you can't get around sleep, every organism we know of with a brain that is enlarged (complex at all) sleeps. there is just no escaping it. As long as you use earth life you have no options. But we don't know why we need it, which leaves you an out.
If your lifeform evolved on a different planet they may not need sleep, you can literally just say it has drastically different neurochemistry/biochemistry and does not need sleep and no one can argue since we don't know why earth life needs it.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
yeah but thats to handwavy, i need explanation on why such different neurochemistry/biochemistry make it not need sleep.
$endgroup$
– Li Jun
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@LiJun sorry there just isn't an answer, we really don't know why brains need sleep, there are a lot of ideas, but nothing solid. We don't even know everything the brain does while asleep. We know they need it but not why. Any answer you give will be by definition handwavy.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@LiJun : Handwavy (to one degree or another) is probably the best you can get on this one unfortunately.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Just use an alien.
If it has a large brain you can't get around sleep, every organism we know of with a brain that is enlarged (complex at all) sleeps. there is just no escaping it. As long as you use earth life you have no options. But we don't know why we need it, which leaves you an out.
If your lifeform evolved on a different planet they may not need sleep, you can literally just say it has drastically different neurochemistry/biochemistry and does not need sleep and no one can argue since we don't know why earth life needs it.
$endgroup$
Just use an alien.
If it has a large brain you can't get around sleep, every organism we know of with a brain that is enlarged (complex at all) sleeps. there is just no escaping it. As long as you use earth life you have no options. But we don't know why we need it, which leaves you an out.
If your lifeform evolved on a different planet they may not need sleep, you can literally just say it has drastically different neurochemistry/biochemistry and does not need sleep and no one can argue since we don't know why earth life needs it.
answered 7 hours ago
JohnJohn
42.8k11 gold badges61 silver badges144 bronze badges
42.8k11 gold badges61 silver badges144 bronze badges
$begingroup$
yeah but thats to handwavy, i need explanation on why such different neurochemistry/biochemistry make it not need sleep.
$endgroup$
– Li Jun
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@LiJun sorry there just isn't an answer, we really don't know why brains need sleep, there are a lot of ideas, but nothing solid. We don't even know everything the brain does while asleep. We know they need it but not why. Any answer you give will be by definition handwavy.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@LiJun : Handwavy (to one degree or another) is probably the best you can get on this one unfortunately.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
yeah but thats to handwavy, i need explanation on why such different neurochemistry/biochemistry make it not need sleep.
$endgroup$
– Li Jun
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@LiJun sorry there just isn't an answer, we really don't know why brains need sleep, there are a lot of ideas, but nothing solid. We don't even know everything the brain does while asleep. We know they need it but not why. Any answer you give will be by definition handwavy.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@LiJun : Handwavy (to one degree or another) is probably the best you can get on this one unfortunately.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
yeah but thats to handwavy, i need explanation on why such different neurochemistry/biochemistry make it not need sleep.
$endgroup$
– Li Jun
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
yeah but thats to handwavy, i need explanation on why such different neurochemistry/biochemistry make it not need sleep.
$endgroup$
– Li Jun
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@LiJun sorry there just isn't an answer, we really don't know why brains need sleep, there are a lot of ideas, but nothing solid. We don't even know everything the brain does while asleep. We know they need it but not why. Any answer you give will be by definition handwavy.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@LiJun sorry there just isn't an answer, we really don't know why brains need sleep, there are a lot of ideas, but nothing solid. We don't even know everything the brain does while asleep. We know they need it but not why. Any answer you give will be by definition handwavy.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@LiJun : Handwavy (to one degree or another) is probably the best you can get on this one unfortunately.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@LiJun : Handwavy (to one degree or another) is probably the best you can get on this one unfortunately.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Polycephaly is a medical condition, in which an animal has multiple heads. This is a special type of conjoined twin. 2 is the most common form, but there is at least 1 case of 3 heads documented (a turtle).
In many cases, each head is capable of sleeping independently of the other, allowing your Biological Creature to function without turpor.
In some cases, each head controls a different part of the body (e.g. Abby and Bittany Hensel, born 1990, each control one hand and one leg. Interestingly, if one of them develops stomach ache, the other twin experiences the sensation instead).
In other cases, both heads are able to control all-or-most of the body - however, when they disagree on an action, this can cause the body to "lock up" and paralyse.
What you require is a situation where both heads can control the whole body, and sleep independently.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Polycephaly is a medical condition, in which an animal has multiple heads. This is a special type of conjoined twin. 2 is the most common form, but there is at least 1 case of 3 heads documented (a turtle).
In many cases, each head is capable of sleeping independently of the other, allowing your Biological Creature to function without turpor.
In some cases, each head controls a different part of the body (e.g. Abby and Bittany Hensel, born 1990, each control one hand and one leg. Interestingly, if one of them develops stomach ache, the other twin experiences the sensation instead).
In other cases, both heads are able to control all-or-most of the body - however, when they disagree on an action, this can cause the body to "lock up" and paralyse.
What you require is a situation where both heads can control the whole body, and sleep independently.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Polycephaly is a medical condition, in which an animal has multiple heads. This is a special type of conjoined twin. 2 is the most common form, but there is at least 1 case of 3 heads documented (a turtle).
In many cases, each head is capable of sleeping independently of the other, allowing your Biological Creature to function without turpor.
In some cases, each head controls a different part of the body (e.g. Abby and Bittany Hensel, born 1990, each control one hand and one leg. Interestingly, if one of them develops stomach ache, the other twin experiences the sensation instead).
In other cases, both heads are able to control all-or-most of the body - however, when they disagree on an action, this can cause the body to "lock up" and paralyse.
What you require is a situation where both heads can control the whole body, and sleep independently.
$endgroup$
Polycephaly is a medical condition, in which an animal has multiple heads. This is a special type of conjoined twin. 2 is the most common form, but there is at least 1 case of 3 heads documented (a turtle).
In many cases, each head is capable of sleeping independently of the other, allowing your Biological Creature to function without turpor.
In some cases, each head controls a different part of the body (e.g. Abby and Bittany Hensel, born 1990, each control one hand and one leg. Interestingly, if one of them develops stomach ache, the other twin experiences the sensation instead).
In other cases, both heads are able to control all-or-most of the body - however, when they disagree on an action, this can cause the body to "lock up" and paralyse.
What you require is a situation where both heads can control the whole body, and sleep independently.
answered 6 hours ago
ChronocidalChronocidal
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You don't need new organs you just need a few tweaks to the way the brain operates & Dolphins have already solved this one for you, obviously they sink if they stop swimming & if they sink they drown so they can't sleep, well they do, but they sleep one hemisphere of their brain at a time.
There's some evidence that dolphins can display slightly different personalities depending on which half (or none) of their brain is sleeping, which is interesting but perhaps not relevant :)
Ah! but on a re-read I see you don't want that option.
Well there's also a commercially available drug in the US that stops you needing any sleep, there was a documentary I saw on it a few years ago.
I can't remember what either that drug or the documentary was called but you might find this article helpful.
Sleep is largely a function of biochemical process in the brain so simply manipulating the genes to adjust the Adenosine receptors to prevent uptake of this neurotransmitter or reduce or else prevent production of it might do the trick.
A downside is that sleep is an integral part of transferring short term memory to long term memory & as far as we know no organism that uses long term memory can do without it indefinitely.
I don't know 'why' the brain needs sleep to transfer short term memory to long term but as sleep is a such a vulnerable state to be in there must be strong evolutionary pressure against any alternative to the dolphins for it not to already have appeared.
Long & the short is the dolphin answer seems the best option to get the 'appearance' of what you ask for despite the fact you remove that option in your question.
But there's no reason to stick to the two hemisphere plan of the the Dolphins (presumably shared by whales).
You could split the brain into four or more with overlapping sleep patterns such that each part (eventually) shares sleep time with each other part, you can use that to plausibly say long term memory is duplicated to all parts of the brain during this time to avoid any long term variation in memory & personality during different parts of their sleep pattern.
$endgroup$
1
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the issue is dolphins do go into torpor and for much longer than a mammal of the same sizes sleeps.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : Well yes, in human terms one or other half of their brain is asleep for up to 16 hours a day & both sides are awake at the same time for only 8 hours but a mammal can operate with only one hemisphere (the other having been surgically excised) just as well as if it had both halves, after a period of adjustment following the loss.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Pelinore "Just as well" is patently wrong. "can get by" is closer to the truth, and that's only true with humans who have a huge highly plastic brain plus large external support systems. dolphins with one side sleeping are almost completely unreactive, with only the bare minimum of functions happening. You are also wrong about how long a dolphin sleeps for, each half of the brain sleeps for about 4 hours, for around 8 hours of total torpor..
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : thanks for the 4 hours, as I said 'in human terms' because I didn't know what the dolphins was :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : I think it's safe to assume the OP's protagonists are going to 'have a huge highly plastic brain' :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
$begingroup$
You don't need new organs you just need a few tweaks to the way the brain operates & Dolphins have already solved this one for you, obviously they sink if they stop swimming & if they sink they drown so they can't sleep, well they do, but they sleep one hemisphere of their brain at a time.
There's some evidence that dolphins can display slightly different personalities depending on which half (or none) of their brain is sleeping, which is interesting but perhaps not relevant :)
Ah! but on a re-read I see you don't want that option.
Well there's also a commercially available drug in the US that stops you needing any sleep, there was a documentary I saw on it a few years ago.
I can't remember what either that drug or the documentary was called but you might find this article helpful.
Sleep is largely a function of biochemical process in the brain so simply manipulating the genes to adjust the Adenosine receptors to prevent uptake of this neurotransmitter or reduce or else prevent production of it might do the trick.
A downside is that sleep is an integral part of transferring short term memory to long term memory & as far as we know no organism that uses long term memory can do without it indefinitely.
I don't know 'why' the brain needs sleep to transfer short term memory to long term but as sleep is a such a vulnerable state to be in there must be strong evolutionary pressure against any alternative to the dolphins for it not to already have appeared.
Long & the short is the dolphin answer seems the best option to get the 'appearance' of what you ask for despite the fact you remove that option in your question.
But there's no reason to stick to the two hemisphere plan of the the Dolphins (presumably shared by whales).
You could split the brain into four or more with overlapping sleep patterns such that each part (eventually) shares sleep time with each other part, you can use that to plausibly say long term memory is duplicated to all parts of the brain during this time to avoid any long term variation in memory & personality during different parts of their sleep pattern.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
the issue is dolphins do go into torpor and for much longer than a mammal of the same sizes sleeps.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : Well yes, in human terms one or other half of their brain is asleep for up to 16 hours a day & both sides are awake at the same time for only 8 hours but a mammal can operate with only one hemisphere (the other having been surgically excised) just as well as if it had both halves, after a period of adjustment following the loss.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Pelinore "Just as well" is patently wrong. "can get by" is closer to the truth, and that's only true with humans who have a huge highly plastic brain plus large external support systems. dolphins with one side sleeping are almost completely unreactive, with only the bare minimum of functions happening. You are also wrong about how long a dolphin sleeps for, each half of the brain sleeps for about 4 hours, for around 8 hours of total torpor..
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : thanks for the 4 hours, as I said 'in human terms' because I didn't know what the dolphins was :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : I think it's safe to assume the OP's protagonists are going to 'have a huge highly plastic brain' :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
$begingroup$
You don't need new organs you just need a few tweaks to the way the brain operates & Dolphins have already solved this one for you, obviously they sink if they stop swimming & if they sink they drown so they can't sleep, well they do, but they sleep one hemisphere of their brain at a time.
There's some evidence that dolphins can display slightly different personalities depending on which half (or none) of their brain is sleeping, which is interesting but perhaps not relevant :)
Ah! but on a re-read I see you don't want that option.
Well there's also a commercially available drug in the US that stops you needing any sleep, there was a documentary I saw on it a few years ago.
I can't remember what either that drug or the documentary was called but you might find this article helpful.
Sleep is largely a function of biochemical process in the brain so simply manipulating the genes to adjust the Adenosine receptors to prevent uptake of this neurotransmitter or reduce or else prevent production of it might do the trick.
A downside is that sleep is an integral part of transferring short term memory to long term memory & as far as we know no organism that uses long term memory can do without it indefinitely.
I don't know 'why' the brain needs sleep to transfer short term memory to long term but as sleep is a such a vulnerable state to be in there must be strong evolutionary pressure against any alternative to the dolphins for it not to already have appeared.
Long & the short is the dolphin answer seems the best option to get the 'appearance' of what you ask for despite the fact you remove that option in your question.
But there's no reason to stick to the two hemisphere plan of the the Dolphins (presumably shared by whales).
You could split the brain into four or more with overlapping sleep patterns such that each part (eventually) shares sleep time with each other part, you can use that to plausibly say long term memory is duplicated to all parts of the brain during this time to avoid any long term variation in memory & personality during different parts of their sleep pattern.
$endgroup$
You don't need new organs you just need a few tweaks to the way the brain operates & Dolphins have already solved this one for you, obviously they sink if they stop swimming & if they sink they drown so they can't sleep, well they do, but they sleep one hemisphere of their brain at a time.
There's some evidence that dolphins can display slightly different personalities depending on which half (or none) of their brain is sleeping, which is interesting but perhaps not relevant :)
Ah! but on a re-read I see you don't want that option.
Well there's also a commercially available drug in the US that stops you needing any sleep, there was a documentary I saw on it a few years ago.
I can't remember what either that drug or the documentary was called but you might find this article helpful.
Sleep is largely a function of biochemical process in the brain so simply manipulating the genes to adjust the Adenosine receptors to prevent uptake of this neurotransmitter or reduce or else prevent production of it might do the trick.
A downside is that sleep is an integral part of transferring short term memory to long term memory & as far as we know no organism that uses long term memory can do without it indefinitely.
I don't know 'why' the brain needs sleep to transfer short term memory to long term but as sleep is a such a vulnerable state to be in there must be strong evolutionary pressure against any alternative to the dolphins for it not to already have appeared.
Long & the short is the dolphin answer seems the best option to get the 'appearance' of what you ask for despite the fact you remove that option in your question.
But there's no reason to stick to the two hemisphere plan of the the Dolphins (presumably shared by whales).
You could split the brain into four or more with overlapping sleep patterns such that each part (eventually) shares sleep time with each other part, you can use that to plausibly say long term memory is duplicated to all parts of the brain during this time to avoid any long term variation in memory & personality during different parts of their sleep pattern.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
PelinorePelinore
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1
$begingroup$
the issue is dolphins do go into torpor and for much longer than a mammal of the same sizes sleeps.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : Well yes, in human terms one or other half of their brain is asleep for up to 16 hours a day & both sides are awake at the same time for only 8 hours but a mammal can operate with only one hemisphere (the other having been surgically excised) just as well as if it had both halves, after a period of adjustment following the loss.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Pelinore "Just as well" is patently wrong. "can get by" is closer to the truth, and that's only true with humans who have a huge highly plastic brain plus large external support systems. dolphins with one side sleeping are almost completely unreactive, with only the bare minimum of functions happening. You are also wrong about how long a dolphin sleeps for, each half of the brain sleeps for about 4 hours, for around 8 hours of total torpor..
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : thanks for the 4 hours, as I said 'in human terms' because I didn't know what the dolphins was :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : I think it's safe to assume the OP's protagonists are going to 'have a huge highly plastic brain' :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
1
$begingroup$
the issue is dolphins do go into torpor and for much longer than a mammal of the same sizes sleeps.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : Well yes, in human terms one or other half of their brain is asleep for up to 16 hours a day & both sides are awake at the same time for only 8 hours but a mammal can operate with only one hemisphere (the other having been surgically excised) just as well as if it had both halves, after a period of adjustment following the loss.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Pelinore "Just as well" is patently wrong. "can get by" is closer to the truth, and that's only true with humans who have a huge highly plastic brain plus large external support systems. dolphins with one side sleeping are almost completely unreactive, with only the bare minimum of functions happening. You are also wrong about how long a dolphin sleeps for, each half of the brain sleeps for about 4 hours, for around 8 hours of total torpor..
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : thanks for the 4 hours, as I said 'in human terms' because I didn't know what the dolphins was :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@John : I think it's safe to assume the OP's protagonists are going to 'have a huge highly plastic brain' :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
the issue is dolphins do go into torpor and for much longer than a mammal of the same sizes sleeps.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
the issue is dolphins do go into torpor and for much longer than a mammal of the same sizes sleeps.
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@John : Well yes, in human terms one or other half of their brain is asleep for up to 16 hours a day & both sides are awake at the same time for only 8 hours but a mammal can operate with only one hemisphere (the other having been surgically excised) just as well as if it had both halves, after a period of adjustment following the loss.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@John : Well yes, in human terms one or other half of their brain is asleep for up to 16 hours a day & both sides are awake at the same time for only 8 hours but a mammal can operate with only one hemisphere (the other having been surgically excised) just as well as if it had both halves, after a period of adjustment following the loss.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Pelinore "Just as well" is patently wrong. "can get by" is closer to the truth, and that's only true with humans who have a huge highly plastic brain plus large external support systems. dolphins with one side sleeping are almost completely unreactive, with only the bare minimum of functions happening. You are also wrong about how long a dolphin sleeps for, each half of the brain sleeps for about 4 hours, for around 8 hours of total torpor..
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore "Just as well" is patently wrong. "can get by" is closer to the truth, and that's only true with humans who have a huge highly plastic brain plus large external support systems. dolphins with one side sleeping are almost completely unreactive, with only the bare minimum of functions happening. You are also wrong about how long a dolphin sleeps for, each half of the brain sleeps for about 4 hours, for around 8 hours of total torpor..
$endgroup$
– John
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@John : thanks for the 4 hours, as I said 'in human terms' because I didn't know what the dolphins was :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@John : thanks for the 4 hours, as I said 'in human terms' because I didn't know what the dolphins was :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@John : I think it's safe to assume the OP's protagonists are going to 'have a huge highly plastic brain' :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@John : I think it's safe to assume the OP's protagonists are going to 'have a huge highly plastic brain' :)
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
$begingroup$
Sleep is mostly required for highly intelligent lifeforms or lifeforms with complex memory functions as far as I know (Bacterias don't sleep). This is different from physical rest, which is for conserving energy. As such a life form with two independent brains that take turns, would probably not need to sleep, since each brain sleeps half the time in turn, despite the creature itself being awake. Both brains need to have identical functions, the only problem being sharing/syncing of memories between the two. Otherwise you will end up with a race with dissociative personality disorder. As for chemicals to prevent sleeping, that's just overdrafting, the brain will eventually shutdown , maybe even permanently.
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Sleep is mostly required for highly intelligent lifeforms or lifeforms with complex memory functions as far as I know (Bacterias don't sleep). This is different from physical rest, which is for conserving energy. As such a life form with two independent brains that take turns, would probably not need to sleep, since each brain sleeps half the time in turn, despite the creature itself being awake. Both brains need to have identical functions, the only problem being sharing/syncing of memories between the two. Otherwise you will end up with a race with dissociative personality disorder. As for chemicals to prevent sleeping, that's just overdrafting, the brain will eventually shutdown , maybe even permanently.
$endgroup$
add a comment
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$begingroup$
Sleep is mostly required for highly intelligent lifeforms or lifeforms with complex memory functions as far as I know (Bacterias don't sleep). This is different from physical rest, which is for conserving energy. As such a life form with two independent brains that take turns, would probably not need to sleep, since each brain sleeps half the time in turn, despite the creature itself being awake. Both brains need to have identical functions, the only problem being sharing/syncing of memories between the two. Otherwise you will end up with a race with dissociative personality disorder. As for chemicals to prevent sleeping, that's just overdrafting, the brain will eventually shutdown , maybe even permanently.
$endgroup$
Sleep is mostly required for highly intelligent lifeforms or lifeforms with complex memory functions as far as I know (Bacterias don't sleep). This is different from physical rest, which is for conserving energy. As such a life form with two independent brains that take turns, would probably not need to sleep, since each brain sleeps half the time in turn, despite the creature itself being awake. Both brains need to have identical functions, the only problem being sharing/syncing of memories between the two. Otherwise you will end up with a race with dissociative personality disorder. As for chemicals to prevent sleeping, that's just overdrafting, the brain will eventually shutdown , maybe even permanently.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Deepon GhoseRoyDeepon GhoseRoy
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[Fiction]
Sleep is a natural stress reliever. In humans, and even in animals, you can expect a lack of sleep to lead to a situation of Hypertension. So, any sentient animal species that doesn't sleep at all has to be really stressed, which means its lifespan will be short lived.
Next, not sleeping is akin to an extreme case of insomnia which is biologically evolved in your case.
Since insomnia is a common occurence in humans, you can look into conditions that can trigger it/ break the regular sleep cycle, and factors that can keep it broken.
For example: In below, the bodily chemicals/ hormones work in tandem to affect the regular sleep in humans:
Exposure to light stimulates a nerve pathway from the retina in the eye to an area in the brain called the hypothalamus. There, a special center called the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) initiates signals to other parts of the brain that control hormones, body temperature and other functions that play a role in making us feel sleepy or wide awake.
Melatonin is a natural hormone made by your body's pineal (pih-knee-uhl) gland. This is a pea-sized gland located just above the middle of the brain. During the day the pineal is inactive. When the sun goes down and darkness occurs, the pineal is "turned on" by the SCN and begins to actively produce melatonin, which is released into the blood. Usually, this occurs around 9 pm. As a result, melatonin levels in the blood rise sharply and you begin to feel less alert.
So, all you need to do is establish interference in a similar system/ remove the hormone, and your fictional species can go sleepless.
Next, give this species a short life, and an early reproductive age, where the stress they have on themselves doesn't affect their reproductive abilities by much yet.
$endgroup$
add a comment
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$begingroup$
[Fiction]
Sleep is a natural stress reliever. In humans, and even in animals, you can expect a lack of sleep to lead to a situation of Hypertension. So, any sentient animal species that doesn't sleep at all has to be really stressed, which means its lifespan will be short lived.
Next, not sleeping is akin to an extreme case of insomnia which is biologically evolved in your case.
Since insomnia is a common occurence in humans, you can look into conditions that can trigger it/ break the regular sleep cycle, and factors that can keep it broken.
For example: In below, the bodily chemicals/ hormones work in tandem to affect the regular sleep in humans:
Exposure to light stimulates a nerve pathway from the retina in the eye to an area in the brain called the hypothalamus. There, a special center called the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) initiates signals to other parts of the brain that control hormones, body temperature and other functions that play a role in making us feel sleepy or wide awake.
Melatonin is a natural hormone made by your body's pineal (pih-knee-uhl) gland. This is a pea-sized gland located just above the middle of the brain. During the day the pineal is inactive. When the sun goes down and darkness occurs, the pineal is "turned on" by the SCN and begins to actively produce melatonin, which is released into the blood. Usually, this occurs around 9 pm. As a result, melatonin levels in the blood rise sharply and you begin to feel less alert.
So, all you need to do is establish interference in a similar system/ remove the hormone, and your fictional species can go sleepless.
Next, give this species a short life, and an early reproductive age, where the stress they have on themselves doesn't affect their reproductive abilities by much yet.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
[Fiction]
Sleep is a natural stress reliever. In humans, and even in animals, you can expect a lack of sleep to lead to a situation of Hypertension. So, any sentient animal species that doesn't sleep at all has to be really stressed, which means its lifespan will be short lived.
Next, not sleeping is akin to an extreme case of insomnia which is biologically evolved in your case.
Since insomnia is a common occurence in humans, you can look into conditions that can trigger it/ break the regular sleep cycle, and factors that can keep it broken.
For example: In below, the bodily chemicals/ hormones work in tandem to affect the regular sleep in humans:
Exposure to light stimulates a nerve pathway from the retina in the eye to an area in the brain called the hypothalamus. There, a special center called the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) initiates signals to other parts of the brain that control hormones, body temperature and other functions that play a role in making us feel sleepy or wide awake.
Melatonin is a natural hormone made by your body's pineal (pih-knee-uhl) gland. This is a pea-sized gland located just above the middle of the brain. During the day the pineal is inactive. When the sun goes down and darkness occurs, the pineal is "turned on" by the SCN and begins to actively produce melatonin, which is released into the blood. Usually, this occurs around 9 pm. As a result, melatonin levels in the blood rise sharply and you begin to feel less alert.
So, all you need to do is establish interference in a similar system/ remove the hormone, and your fictional species can go sleepless.
Next, give this species a short life, and an early reproductive age, where the stress they have on themselves doesn't affect their reproductive abilities by much yet.
$endgroup$
[Fiction]
Sleep is a natural stress reliever. In humans, and even in animals, you can expect a lack of sleep to lead to a situation of Hypertension. So, any sentient animal species that doesn't sleep at all has to be really stressed, which means its lifespan will be short lived.
Next, not sleeping is akin to an extreme case of insomnia which is biologically evolved in your case.
Since insomnia is a common occurence in humans, you can look into conditions that can trigger it/ break the regular sleep cycle, and factors that can keep it broken.
For example: In below, the bodily chemicals/ hormones work in tandem to affect the regular sleep in humans:
Exposure to light stimulates a nerve pathway from the retina in the eye to an area in the brain called the hypothalamus. There, a special center called the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) initiates signals to other parts of the brain that control hormones, body temperature and other functions that play a role in making us feel sleepy or wide awake.
Melatonin is a natural hormone made by your body's pineal (pih-knee-uhl) gland. This is a pea-sized gland located just above the middle of the brain. During the day the pineal is inactive. When the sun goes down and darkness occurs, the pineal is "turned on" by the SCN and begins to actively produce melatonin, which is released into the blood. Usually, this occurs around 9 pm. As a result, melatonin levels in the blood rise sharply and you begin to feel less alert.
So, all you need to do is establish interference in a similar system/ remove the hormone, and your fictional species can go sleepless.
Next, give this species a short life, and an early reproductive age, where the stress they have on themselves doesn't affect their reproductive abilities by much yet.
answered 7 hours ago
mu 無mu 無
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Brain with three hemispheres
The state in dolphins and some birds that could keep some functions while sleeping is achieved by working with only one of the hemispheres of their brains while in "sleep state" the other part is resting.
If you add an extra hemisphere that would support the "awake" part with their normal functions you could cycle between them to achieve a "non-sleep state" during most part of the life of the creature that you are designing.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Brain with three hemispheres
The state in dolphins and some birds that could keep some functions while sleeping is achieved by working with only one of the hemispheres of their brains while in "sleep state" the other part is resting.
If you add an extra hemisphere that would support the "awake" part with their normal functions you could cycle between them to achieve a "non-sleep state" during most part of the life of the creature that you are designing.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Brain with three hemispheres
The state in dolphins and some birds that could keep some functions while sleeping is achieved by working with only one of the hemispheres of their brains while in "sleep state" the other part is resting.
If you add an extra hemisphere that would support the "awake" part with their normal functions you could cycle between them to achieve a "non-sleep state" during most part of the life of the creature that you are designing.
$endgroup$
Brain with three hemispheres
The state in dolphins and some birds that could keep some functions while sleeping is achieved by working with only one of the hemispheres of their brains while in "sleep state" the other part is resting.
If you add an extra hemisphere that would support the "awake" part with their normal functions you could cycle between them to achieve a "non-sleep state" during most part of the life of the creature that you are designing.
answered 2 hours ago
TridamTridam
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While multi-brain and multi-hemisphere answers have been posed, they all result in some lose of function while one part of the cognitive system is down. This seems against what the OP is looking for since he does not want dolphin style torpor.
However, computer scientists have already devised a number of systems called RAID controllers to be used by servers to replicate data across multiple hard drives in case of a disk failure or scheduled maintenance. When you consider sleep as analogous to server maintenance, it becomes obvious that a brain could use such a system to overcome the need for sleep with a somewhat larger brain. By replicating functionality, you could basically have two brains, but when one brain is ready to sleep, it wakes up the other brain copies info to it first, and then goes to sleep. In this fashion, you would not notice a performance drop-off or change in personality because both brains are doing the same things, just at different times.
$endgroup$
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$begingroup$
While multi-brain and multi-hemisphere answers have been posed, they all result in some lose of function while one part of the cognitive system is down. This seems against what the OP is looking for since he does not want dolphin style torpor.
However, computer scientists have already devised a number of systems called RAID controllers to be used by servers to replicate data across multiple hard drives in case of a disk failure or scheduled maintenance. When you consider sleep as analogous to server maintenance, it becomes obvious that a brain could use such a system to overcome the need for sleep with a somewhat larger brain. By replicating functionality, you could basically have two brains, but when one brain is ready to sleep, it wakes up the other brain copies info to it first, and then goes to sleep. In this fashion, you would not notice a performance drop-off or change in personality because both brains are doing the same things, just at different times.
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
While multi-brain and multi-hemisphere answers have been posed, they all result in some lose of function while one part of the cognitive system is down. This seems against what the OP is looking for since he does not want dolphin style torpor.
However, computer scientists have already devised a number of systems called RAID controllers to be used by servers to replicate data across multiple hard drives in case of a disk failure or scheduled maintenance. When you consider sleep as analogous to server maintenance, it becomes obvious that a brain could use such a system to overcome the need for sleep with a somewhat larger brain. By replicating functionality, you could basically have two brains, but when one brain is ready to sleep, it wakes up the other brain copies info to it first, and then goes to sleep. In this fashion, you would not notice a performance drop-off or change in personality because both brains are doing the same things, just at different times.
$endgroup$
While multi-brain and multi-hemisphere answers have been posed, they all result in some lose of function while one part of the cognitive system is down. This seems against what the OP is looking for since he does not want dolphin style torpor.
However, computer scientists have already devised a number of systems called RAID controllers to be used by servers to replicate data across multiple hard drives in case of a disk failure or scheduled maintenance. When you consider sleep as analogous to server maintenance, it becomes obvious that a brain could use such a system to overcome the need for sleep with a somewhat larger brain. By replicating functionality, you could basically have two brains, but when one brain is ready to sleep, it wakes up the other brain copies info to it first, and then goes to sleep. In this fashion, you would not notice a performance drop-off or change in personality because both brains are doing the same things, just at different times.
answered 7 mins ago
NosajimikiNosajimiki
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1
$begingroup$
Its not about organs or chemicals, but about radically overhauling a body plan that requires regular sleep or risks breaking down. You can't get there from here; you'll need to design some new things that never needed sleep in the first place.
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– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The brains of vertebrates need sleep, or else they malfunction with very serious effects. We don't know why exactly the brains of vertebrates need sleep; all we know is that they do, and that nothing we tried can replace sleep.
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– AlexP
8 hours ago
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caffeine can make you never need sleep, in fact trying would be lethal.
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– John
6 hours ago