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Do jackscrews suffer from blowdown?
How are cruise missiles different from ballistic missiles?Can the fluid from one hydraulic circuit go to another one (voluntarily or not) in flight?Why do aircraft have a crossover airspeed, and why does it increase at higher vertical load factors?Why does only one hydraulic intake line from the reservoir have a filter on the Arrow II?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
With hydraulic control surfaces, at high airspeeds, there is a point where aerodynamic loads exceed the capability of the actuators. This limits control authority and can result in the control surface not being in the position commanded by the pilot.
Jackscrews are commonly used for horizontal stabilizer control. I know they can jam and be difficult to move under high loads, but can they be blown back from their set position or do they stay put?
control-surfaces hydraulic-system
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
With hydraulic control surfaces, at high airspeeds, there is a point where aerodynamic loads exceed the capability of the actuators. This limits control authority and can result in the control surface not being in the position commanded by the pilot.
Jackscrews are commonly used for horizontal stabilizer control. I know they can jam and be difficult to move under high loads, but can they be blown back from their set position or do they stay put?
control-surfaces hydraulic-system
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
Jack screws are used in accident investigations to determine the position of control surfaces like flaps at the moment of impact. I'd say the answer is "no, they stay put", but I don't have a definitive source on that.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is a very basic mechanical engineering problem. Essentially, when you push on it, the thread tries to rotate, the force of rotation is proportional to the force by a factor ofx
. At the same time, friction that tries to stop the rotation is also proportional, by another factory
. If your thread is not so steep, thenx<y
, meaning however large the force is, the friction that stops the rotation is always greater. This is a feature called "self locking" that is available to the designer.
$endgroup$
– user3528438
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
With hydraulic control surfaces, at high airspeeds, there is a point where aerodynamic loads exceed the capability of the actuators. This limits control authority and can result in the control surface not being in the position commanded by the pilot.
Jackscrews are commonly used for horizontal stabilizer control. I know they can jam and be difficult to move under high loads, but can they be blown back from their set position or do they stay put?
control-surfaces hydraulic-system
$endgroup$
With hydraulic control surfaces, at high airspeeds, there is a point where aerodynamic loads exceed the capability of the actuators. This limits control authority and can result in the control surface not being in the position commanded by the pilot.
Jackscrews are commonly used for horizontal stabilizer control. I know they can jam and be difficult to move under high loads, but can they be blown back from their set position or do they stay put?
control-surfaces hydraulic-system
control-surfaces hydraulic-system
asked 9 hours ago
TomMcWTomMcW
18.9k11 gold badges79 silver badges173 bronze badges
18.9k11 gold badges79 silver badges173 bronze badges
5
$begingroup$
Jack screws are used in accident investigations to determine the position of control surfaces like flaps at the moment of impact. I'd say the answer is "no, they stay put", but I don't have a definitive source on that.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is a very basic mechanical engineering problem. Essentially, when you push on it, the thread tries to rotate, the force of rotation is proportional to the force by a factor ofx
. At the same time, friction that tries to stop the rotation is also proportional, by another factory
. If your thread is not so steep, thenx<y
, meaning however large the force is, the friction that stops the rotation is always greater. This is a feature called "self locking" that is available to the designer.
$endgroup$
– user3528438
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
5
$begingroup$
Jack screws are used in accident investigations to determine the position of control surfaces like flaps at the moment of impact. I'd say the answer is "no, they stay put", but I don't have a definitive source on that.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is a very basic mechanical engineering problem. Essentially, when you push on it, the thread tries to rotate, the force of rotation is proportional to the force by a factor ofx
. At the same time, friction that tries to stop the rotation is also proportional, by another factory
. If your thread is not so steep, thenx<y
, meaning however large the force is, the friction that stops the rotation is always greater. This is a feature called "self locking" that is available to the designer.
$endgroup$
– user3528438
8 hours ago
5
5
$begingroup$
Jack screws are used in accident investigations to determine the position of control surfaces like flaps at the moment of impact. I'd say the answer is "no, they stay put", but I don't have a definitive source on that.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Jack screws are used in accident investigations to determine the position of control surfaces like flaps at the moment of impact. I'd say the answer is "no, they stay put", but I don't have a definitive source on that.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
9 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
This is a very basic mechanical engineering problem. Essentially, when you push on it, the thread tries to rotate, the force of rotation is proportional to the force by a factor of
x
. At the same time, friction that tries to stop the rotation is also proportional, by another factor y
. If your thread is not so steep, then x<y
, meaning however large the force is, the friction that stops the rotation is always greater. This is a feature called "self locking" that is available to the designer.$endgroup$
– user3528438
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is a very basic mechanical engineering problem. Essentially, when you push on it, the thread tries to rotate, the force of rotation is proportional to the force by a factor of
x
. At the same time, friction that tries to stop the rotation is also proportional, by another factor y
. If your thread is not so steep, then x<y
, meaning however large the force is, the friction that stops the rotation is always greater. This is a feature called "self locking" that is available to the designer.$endgroup$
– user3528438
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Screws can be either self-locking or overhauling. Jackscrews used for stabilizer control are designed to be self-locking, since their purpose is to make the stabilizer adjustable, but prevent it from moving by itself.
A jackscrew (or screw jack) is pretty much by definition a self-locking screw.
Wikipedia: Screws - self-locking property
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Acme screw type screw jacks with the square threads, as used in stab trim systems (as opposed to recirculating a ball screw), are usually inherently irreversible because of the higher friction of the direct sliding contact of the square sided threads vs a rolling ball interface (as a sliding interface, it's totally dependent on the grease to keep friction in check).
This is why the trim screw jack of the 737 becomes extremely difficult to move manually when the jack is heavily loaded, even though the movement input is coming from input side that is supposed to be the low effort side, requiring a technique of unloading it with elevator inputs to manually trim when the airplane's actual speed and trim speed are far apart.
Ballscrew type jacks however, typically used for flap actuators, have very low internal friction and very high efficiency thanks to the ball interface between the "nut" and screw (rolling, not sliding). As a result they can be back-driven more easily; how easily depends on the gear reduction within the worm drive gearbox.
Ballscrew operated flap systems typically require friction brakes in the drive line, or anti-backdrive devices incorporated internally in each actuator (basically a clutch device that is disengaged only when the torque is coming from the input side), to prevent a flap surface that is disconnected from its drive motor from creeping up from air loads.
Acme screw actuators also have internal brakes but these mainly function to lock an inoperative motor when there are dual motors, so that the live motor can't backdrive the dead one instead of the downstream gear train. They also serve to lock the acme screw when both motors are off, but this isn't as critical with an acme screw.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It seems screw friction is a function of the lead angle, and square threads have the least friction. A clarification on that point you've made would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought it was pretty clear. Yes square threads have less friction than tapered ones. Read it carefully. I'm talking about a sliding interface vs a roller interface. A ball screw sees no sliding of surfaces, it's a spiral ball bearing in effect. Ballscrews only need grease to keep water out and to lubricate the balls where they touch each other. Remove the grease and it's efficiency is only marginally reduced. An acme thread is two spiral surfaces sliding past each other and needs a grease film to function at all.
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Many thanks. I think it will be clearer if "the higher friction of the square sided threads" is changed to "the higher friction of direct contact", as what confused me is the mentioning of the square thread (shape-wise, it's low friction). / Interesting find is this 1955 Boeing patent for a stab trim that shows a ball/roller type.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've made some changes that may help. Interesting find there. Stab jacks on transport a/c use dual interleaved threads (it looks like one screw but it's actually two intermeshed) to allow a nut with two separate thread load paths. Not sure that can be done with a recirculating ball system, so that may be why you don't see that type in service.
$endgroup$
– John K
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Screws can be either self-locking or overhauling. Jackscrews used for stabilizer control are designed to be self-locking, since their purpose is to make the stabilizer adjustable, but prevent it from moving by itself.
A jackscrew (or screw jack) is pretty much by definition a self-locking screw.
Wikipedia: Screws - self-locking property
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Screws can be either self-locking or overhauling. Jackscrews used for stabilizer control are designed to be self-locking, since their purpose is to make the stabilizer adjustable, but prevent it from moving by itself.
A jackscrew (or screw jack) is pretty much by definition a self-locking screw.
Wikipedia: Screws - self-locking property
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Screws can be either self-locking or overhauling. Jackscrews used for stabilizer control are designed to be self-locking, since their purpose is to make the stabilizer adjustable, but prevent it from moving by itself.
A jackscrew (or screw jack) is pretty much by definition a self-locking screw.
Wikipedia: Screws - self-locking property
$endgroup$
Screws can be either self-locking or overhauling. Jackscrews used for stabilizer control are designed to be self-locking, since their purpose is to make the stabilizer adjustable, but prevent it from moving by itself.
A jackscrew (or screw jack) is pretty much by definition a self-locking screw.
Wikipedia: Screws - self-locking property
edited 8 hours ago
Bianfable
6,58024 silver badges51 bronze badges
6,58024 silver badges51 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Jpe61Jpe61
1,2503 silver badges16 bronze badges
1,2503 silver badges16 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Acme screw type screw jacks with the square threads, as used in stab trim systems (as opposed to recirculating a ball screw), are usually inherently irreversible because of the higher friction of the direct sliding contact of the square sided threads vs a rolling ball interface (as a sliding interface, it's totally dependent on the grease to keep friction in check).
This is why the trim screw jack of the 737 becomes extremely difficult to move manually when the jack is heavily loaded, even though the movement input is coming from input side that is supposed to be the low effort side, requiring a technique of unloading it with elevator inputs to manually trim when the airplane's actual speed and trim speed are far apart.
Ballscrew type jacks however, typically used for flap actuators, have very low internal friction and very high efficiency thanks to the ball interface between the "nut" and screw (rolling, not sliding). As a result they can be back-driven more easily; how easily depends on the gear reduction within the worm drive gearbox.
Ballscrew operated flap systems typically require friction brakes in the drive line, or anti-backdrive devices incorporated internally in each actuator (basically a clutch device that is disengaged only when the torque is coming from the input side), to prevent a flap surface that is disconnected from its drive motor from creeping up from air loads.
Acme screw actuators also have internal brakes but these mainly function to lock an inoperative motor when there are dual motors, so that the live motor can't backdrive the dead one instead of the downstream gear train. They also serve to lock the acme screw when both motors are off, but this isn't as critical with an acme screw.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It seems screw friction is a function of the lead angle, and square threads have the least friction. A clarification on that point you've made would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought it was pretty clear. Yes square threads have less friction than tapered ones. Read it carefully. I'm talking about a sliding interface vs a roller interface. A ball screw sees no sliding of surfaces, it's a spiral ball bearing in effect. Ballscrews only need grease to keep water out and to lubricate the balls where they touch each other. Remove the grease and it's efficiency is only marginally reduced. An acme thread is two spiral surfaces sliding past each other and needs a grease film to function at all.
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Many thanks. I think it will be clearer if "the higher friction of the square sided threads" is changed to "the higher friction of direct contact", as what confused me is the mentioning of the square thread (shape-wise, it's low friction). / Interesting find is this 1955 Boeing patent for a stab trim that shows a ball/roller type.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've made some changes that may help. Interesting find there. Stab jacks on transport a/c use dual interleaved threads (it looks like one screw but it's actually two intermeshed) to allow a nut with two separate thread load paths. Not sure that can be done with a recirculating ball system, so that may be why you don't see that type in service.
$endgroup$
– John K
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Acme screw type screw jacks with the square threads, as used in stab trim systems (as opposed to recirculating a ball screw), are usually inherently irreversible because of the higher friction of the direct sliding contact of the square sided threads vs a rolling ball interface (as a sliding interface, it's totally dependent on the grease to keep friction in check).
This is why the trim screw jack of the 737 becomes extremely difficult to move manually when the jack is heavily loaded, even though the movement input is coming from input side that is supposed to be the low effort side, requiring a technique of unloading it with elevator inputs to manually trim when the airplane's actual speed and trim speed are far apart.
Ballscrew type jacks however, typically used for flap actuators, have very low internal friction and very high efficiency thanks to the ball interface between the "nut" and screw (rolling, not sliding). As a result they can be back-driven more easily; how easily depends on the gear reduction within the worm drive gearbox.
Ballscrew operated flap systems typically require friction brakes in the drive line, or anti-backdrive devices incorporated internally in each actuator (basically a clutch device that is disengaged only when the torque is coming from the input side), to prevent a flap surface that is disconnected from its drive motor from creeping up from air loads.
Acme screw actuators also have internal brakes but these mainly function to lock an inoperative motor when there are dual motors, so that the live motor can't backdrive the dead one instead of the downstream gear train. They also serve to lock the acme screw when both motors are off, but this isn't as critical with an acme screw.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It seems screw friction is a function of the lead angle, and square threads have the least friction. A clarification on that point you've made would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought it was pretty clear. Yes square threads have less friction than tapered ones. Read it carefully. I'm talking about a sliding interface vs a roller interface. A ball screw sees no sliding of surfaces, it's a spiral ball bearing in effect. Ballscrews only need grease to keep water out and to lubricate the balls where they touch each other. Remove the grease and it's efficiency is only marginally reduced. An acme thread is two spiral surfaces sliding past each other and needs a grease film to function at all.
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Many thanks. I think it will be clearer if "the higher friction of the square sided threads" is changed to "the higher friction of direct contact", as what confused me is the mentioning of the square thread (shape-wise, it's low friction). / Interesting find is this 1955 Boeing patent for a stab trim that shows a ball/roller type.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've made some changes that may help. Interesting find there. Stab jacks on transport a/c use dual interleaved threads (it looks like one screw but it's actually two intermeshed) to allow a nut with two separate thread load paths. Not sure that can be done with a recirculating ball system, so that may be why you don't see that type in service.
$endgroup$
– John K
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Acme screw type screw jacks with the square threads, as used in stab trim systems (as opposed to recirculating a ball screw), are usually inherently irreversible because of the higher friction of the direct sliding contact of the square sided threads vs a rolling ball interface (as a sliding interface, it's totally dependent on the grease to keep friction in check).
This is why the trim screw jack of the 737 becomes extremely difficult to move manually when the jack is heavily loaded, even though the movement input is coming from input side that is supposed to be the low effort side, requiring a technique of unloading it with elevator inputs to manually trim when the airplane's actual speed and trim speed are far apart.
Ballscrew type jacks however, typically used for flap actuators, have very low internal friction and very high efficiency thanks to the ball interface between the "nut" and screw (rolling, not sliding). As a result they can be back-driven more easily; how easily depends on the gear reduction within the worm drive gearbox.
Ballscrew operated flap systems typically require friction brakes in the drive line, or anti-backdrive devices incorporated internally in each actuator (basically a clutch device that is disengaged only when the torque is coming from the input side), to prevent a flap surface that is disconnected from its drive motor from creeping up from air loads.
Acme screw actuators also have internal brakes but these mainly function to lock an inoperative motor when there are dual motors, so that the live motor can't backdrive the dead one instead of the downstream gear train. They also serve to lock the acme screw when both motors are off, but this isn't as critical with an acme screw.
$endgroup$
Acme screw type screw jacks with the square threads, as used in stab trim systems (as opposed to recirculating a ball screw), are usually inherently irreversible because of the higher friction of the direct sliding contact of the square sided threads vs a rolling ball interface (as a sliding interface, it's totally dependent on the grease to keep friction in check).
This is why the trim screw jack of the 737 becomes extremely difficult to move manually when the jack is heavily loaded, even though the movement input is coming from input side that is supposed to be the low effort side, requiring a technique of unloading it with elevator inputs to manually trim when the airplane's actual speed and trim speed are far apart.
Ballscrew type jacks however, typically used for flap actuators, have very low internal friction and very high efficiency thanks to the ball interface between the "nut" and screw (rolling, not sliding). As a result they can be back-driven more easily; how easily depends on the gear reduction within the worm drive gearbox.
Ballscrew operated flap systems typically require friction brakes in the drive line, or anti-backdrive devices incorporated internally in each actuator (basically a clutch device that is disengaged only when the torque is coming from the input side), to prevent a flap surface that is disconnected from its drive motor from creeping up from air loads.
Acme screw actuators also have internal brakes but these mainly function to lock an inoperative motor when there are dual motors, so that the live motor can't backdrive the dead one instead of the downstream gear train. They also serve to lock the acme screw when both motors are off, but this isn't as critical with an acme screw.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
John KJohn K
42.6k1 gold badge78 silver badges146 bronze badges
42.6k1 gold badge78 silver badges146 bronze badges
$begingroup$
It seems screw friction is a function of the lead angle, and square threads have the least friction. A clarification on that point you've made would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought it was pretty clear. Yes square threads have less friction than tapered ones. Read it carefully. I'm talking about a sliding interface vs a roller interface. A ball screw sees no sliding of surfaces, it's a spiral ball bearing in effect. Ballscrews only need grease to keep water out and to lubricate the balls where they touch each other. Remove the grease and it's efficiency is only marginally reduced. An acme thread is two spiral surfaces sliding past each other and needs a grease film to function at all.
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Many thanks. I think it will be clearer if "the higher friction of the square sided threads" is changed to "the higher friction of direct contact", as what confused me is the mentioning of the square thread (shape-wise, it's low friction). / Interesting find is this 1955 Boeing patent for a stab trim that shows a ball/roller type.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've made some changes that may help. Interesting find there. Stab jacks on transport a/c use dual interleaved threads (it looks like one screw but it's actually two intermeshed) to allow a nut with two separate thread load paths. Not sure that can be done with a recirculating ball system, so that may be why you don't see that type in service.
$endgroup$
– John K
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
It seems screw friction is a function of the lead angle, and square threads have the least friction. A clarification on that point you've made would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought it was pretty clear. Yes square threads have less friction than tapered ones. Read it carefully. I'm talking about a sliding interface vs a roller interface. A ball screw sees no sliding of surfaces, it's a spiral ball bearing in effect. Ballscrews only need grease to keep water out and to lubricate the balls where they touch each other. Remove the grease and it's efficiency is only marginally reduced. An acme thread is two spiral surfaces sliding past each other and needs a grease film to function at all.
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Many thanks. I think it will be clearer if "the higher friction of the square sided threads" is changed to "the higher friction of direct contact", as what confused me is the mentioning of the square thread (shape-wise, it's low friction). / Interesting find is this 1955 Boeing patent for a stab trim that shows a ball/roller type.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've made some changes that may help. Interesting find there. Stab jacks on transport a/c use dual interleaved threads (it looks like one screw but it's actually two intermeshed) to allow a nut with two separate thread load paths. Not sure that can be done with a recirculating ball system, so that may be why you don't see that type in service.
$endgroup$
– John K
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems screw friction is a function of the lead angle, and square threads have the least friction. A clarification on that point you've made would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems screw friction is a function of the lead angle, and square threads have the least friction. A clarification on that point you've made would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought it was pretty clear. Yes square threads have less friction than tapered ones. Read it carefully. I'm talking about a sliding interface vs a roller interface. A ball screw sees no sliding of surfaces, it's a spiral ball bearing in effect. Ballscrews only need grease to keep water out and to lubricate the balls where they touch each other. Remove the grease and it's efficiency is only marginally reduced. An acme thread is two spiral surfaces sliding past each other and needs a grease film to function at all.
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I thought it was pretty clear. Yes square threads have less friction than tapered ones. Read it carefully. I'm talking about a sliding interface vs a roller interface. A ball screw sees no sliding of surfaces, it's a spiral ball bearing in effect. Ballscrews only need grease to keep water out and to lubricate the balls where they touch each other. Remove the grease and it's efficiency is only marginally reduced. An acme thread is two spiral surfaces sliding past each other and needs a grease film to function at all.
$endgroup$
– John K
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Many thanks. I think it will be clearer if "the higher friction of the square sided threads" is changed to "the higher friction of direct contact", as what confused me is the mentioning of the square thread (shape-wise, it's low friction). / Interesting find is this 1955 Boeing patent for a stab trim that shows a ball/roller type.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Many thanks. I think it will be clearer if "the higher friction of the square sided threads" is changed to "the higher friction of direct contact", as what confused me is the mentioning of the square thread (shape-wise, it's low friction). / Interesting find is this 1955 Boeing patent for a stab trim that shows a ball/roller type.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've made some changes that may help. Interesting find there. Stab jacks on transport a/c use dual interleaved threads (it looks like one screw but it's actually two intermeshed) to allow a nut with two separate thread load paths. Not sure that can be done with a recirculating ball system, so that may be why you don't see that type in service.
$endgroup$
– John K
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've made some changes that may help. Interesting find there. Stab jacks on transport a/c use dual interleaved threads (it looks like one screw but it's actually two intermeshed) to allow a nut with two separate thread load paths. Not sure that can be done with a recirculating ball system, so that may be why you don't see that type in service.
$endgroup$
– John K
4 hours ago
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5
$begingroup$
Jack screws are used in accident investigations to determine the position of control surfaces like flaps at the moment of impact. I'd say the answer is "no, they stay put", but I don't have a definitive source on that.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is a very basic mechanical engineering problem. Essentially, when you push on it, the thread tries to rotate, the force of rotation is proportional to the force by a factor of
x
. At the same time, friction that tries to stop the rotation is also proportional, by another factory
. If your thread is not so steep, thenx<y
, meaning however large the force is, the friction that stops the rotation is always greater. This is a feature called "self locking" that is available to the designer.$endgroup$
– user3528438
8 hours ago