Why aren’t emergency services using callsigns?How do I report an emergency using ham radio?How do emergency nets work?Why can't VHF / UHF be used with ionosphere reflection?Using RF6886 Power Amplifier for VHF designUsing 'amodem' to transfer digitally using a UV5Rwhy does net control hear a check-in which I do not hear?Are Americans the only hams with four-letter callsigns?Is using /AE compulsory?USA/callsigns: Why is California region 6? And the midwest in regions 7-9?Is it conventional to sign using the phonetic alphabet like people do in the military or aviation?

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Why aren’t emergency services using callsigns?


How do I report an emergency using ham radio?How do emergency nets work?Why can't VHF / UHF be used with ionosphere reflection?Using RF6886 Power Amplifier for VHF designUsing 'amodem' to transfer digitally using a UV5Rwhy does net control hear a check-in which I do not hear?Are Americans the only hams with four-letter callsigns?Is using /AE compulsory?USA/callsigns: Why is California region 6? And the midwest in regions 7-9?Is it conventional to sign using the phonetic alphabet like people do in the military or aviation?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1












$begingroup$


I’m super new to radio with nobody I know knowing it, so noob alert - plus some extraneous details in case you can comment on any of those.



I got a pair of BaoFeng BF-F8HP radios with recommended antenna upgrades with the idea that my brother and I can eventually get licensed and talk over the 5 miles between our houses in dense suburbs. Seems plausible from the reviews, but haven’t tested yet.



Anyway, we’re just listening for now and there are a few emergency services I found through radioreference. Most in my area are encrypted and some are at like 700+Mhz that are beyond this radio’s uhf & vhf bands. (I think I can pick up P25 and FM, but not other modes). I was able reach more stations by decreasing the Freq Step size to the minimum 2.5khz, and also going to Narrowband mode for easier scanning (although scanning has been fruitless). Infrequently I hear morse go out on the otherwise vox channel. Perhaps they’re different bands and my narrow-band is still too wide? I haven’t found any broadcasts that sound like anything but regular old walkie talkies.



Main question: Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes? Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s? And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands? And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Jason Kleban is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$


    I’m super new to radio with nobody I know knowing it, so noob alert - plus some extraneous details in case you can comment on any of those.



    I got a pair of BaoFeng BF-F8HP radios with recommended antenna upgrades with the idea that my brother and I can eventually get licensed and talk over the 5 miles between our houses in dense suburbs. Seems plausible from the reviews, but haven’t tested yet.



    Anyway, we’re just listening for now and there are a few emergency services I found through radioreference. Most in my area are encrypted and some are at like 700+Mhz that are beyond this radio’s uhf & vhf bands. (I think I can pick up P25 and FM, but not other modes). I was able reach more stations by decreasing the Freq Step size to the minimum 2.5khz, and also going to Narrowband mode for easier scanning (although scanning has been fruitless). Infrequently I hear morse go out on the otherwise vox channel. Perhaps they’re different bands and my narrow-band is still too wide? I haven’t found any broadcasts that sound like anything but regular old walkie talkies.



    Main question: Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes? Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s? And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands? And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor



    Jason Kleban is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$
















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      I’m super new to radio with nobody I know knowing it, so noob alert - plus some extraneous details in case you can comment on any of those.



      I got a pair of BaoFeng BF-F8HP radios with recommended antenna upgrades with the idea that my brother and I can eventually get licensed and talk over the 5 miles between our houses in dense suburbs. Seems plausible from the reviews, but haven’t tested yet.



      Anyway, we’re just listening for now and there are a few emergency services I found through radioreference. Most in my area are encrypted and some are at like 700+Mhz that are beyond this radio’s uhf & vhf bands. (I think I can pick up P25 and FM, but not other modes). I was able reach more stations by decreasing the Freq Step size to the minimum 2.5khz, and also going to Narrowband mode for easier scanning (although scanning has been fruitless). Infrequently I hear morse go out on the otherwise vox channel. Perhaps they’re different bands and my narrow-band is still too wide? I haven’t found any broadcasts that sound like anything but regular old walkie talkies.



      Main question: Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes? Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s? And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands? And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Jason Kleban is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$




      I’m super new to radio with nobody I know knowing it, so noob alert - plus some extraneous details in case you can comment on any of those.



      I got a pair of BaoFeng BF-F8HP radios with recommended antenna upgrades with the idea that my brother and I can eventually get licensed and talk over the 5 miles between our houses in dense suburbs. Seems plausible from the reviews, but haven’t tested yet.



      Anyway, we’re just listening for now and there are a few emergency services I found through radioreference. Most in my area are encrypted and some are at like 700+Mhz that are beyond this radio’s uhf & vhf bands. (I think I can pick up P25 and FM, but not other modes). I was able reach more stations by decreasing the Freq Step size to the minimum 2.5khz, and also going to Narrowband mode for easier scanning (although scanning has been fruitless). Infrequently I hear morse go out on the otherwise vox channel. Perhaps they’re different bands and my narrow-band is still too wide? I haven’t found any broadcasts that sound like anything but regular old walkie talkies.



      Main question: Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes? Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s? And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands? And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?







      vhf uhf procedure callsign phone






      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Jason Kleban is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Jason Kleban is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








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      share|improve this question








      edited 7 hours ago









      Kevin Reid AG6YO

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      asked 11 hours ago









      Jason KlebanJason Kleban

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          3 Answers
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          $begingroup$


          … Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs … ?




          They aren't required to and don't find it useful in their procedures. Also, they don't have call signs in the sense amateurs do — they may have names for different groups in a transmission ("Car #3" or whatever) which are call signs in the sense that they play the same role in radio procedure, but they're not related to radio licensing at all — they're made up for the organization's purposes.




          Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s?




          Yes. Amateur licensing is completely unrelated to licensing for commercial or government two-way radio.



          Amateur radio licenses are granted to a person for their operations, with whatever equipment they like. Commercial and government licenses (in the US, and I would expect similarly elsewhere) are granted to an organization — the individual users do not use any license of their own in order to participate. The organization purchases or rents radios and, usually, "programs" them to operate only on the frequencies they have a license to (so the individual users cannot violate the license and don't have to think about frequencies, just a small list of preset channels).




          And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands?




          They are isolated. The transmissions you are listening to are not in the amateur frequency allocations (bands). Your local radio licensing authority keeps track of the licenses/allocations. (For the FCC in the US: here's the table of allocations and the search engine for individual licenses — including by frequency.)




          And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          Whatever frequency you pick probably belongs to somebody. They'll have expectations about how their licensed allocation is used, and possibly recognize you as not anyone they know and not following any procedures they have. Or, it could be that the allocation in question is used for an incompatible mode (digital something-or-other) in which case you're just another source of RFI.



          Would you "get caught"? Often not, but think of it like trespassing on someone's land — they often might not notice, and they often might not care — or they might care a whole lot. And it's rude, too.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Whatever frequency you pick [...] belongs to somebody.
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Emergency FM systems as I'm used to do have specific callsign conventions, but it's not user-specific (or even station-specific, necessarily), but role-specific. Something like "I'm the leadership crew vehicle machinist of the Karlsruhe branch of the German technical civil protection agency", encoded in numbers.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @MarcusMüller I meant to specify that, but I've edited the paragraph to make it clearer.
            $endgroup$
            – Kevin Reid AG6YO
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @KevinReidAG6YO thanks! I like this answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I’m getting it. This radio works for multiple use cases including ham, but not limited to ham.
            $endgroup$
            – Jason Kleban
            5 hours ago


















          2












          $begingroup$


          who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          There's national regulations agencies that monitor the spectrum, and come when someone notifies them of an interference. They can fine you! (And: Typically will fine you if they find you in intentional abuse of spectrum.)



          Also, be a bit careful about not accidentally using a military allotment. Depending on the service, your country's attitude towards that and the mood of whoever is in charge of the military devices you're interfering with: Visits by these guys will probably not be overly pleasant.



          Location of a radio emitter is a lot easier than you might think, especially if you're an agency not afraid of spending a couple dozen kilodollar on radiolocation systems (which are commercially available).



          I fully agree with everything Kevin wrote: don't test your luck, and don't interefere with someone's potentially life-critical systems. It's plain rude and inconsiderate!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Yes! And would you enjoy being behind bars in a prison? Think it over very carefully. ;-)
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            to be honest, in most places you'd have to interfere pretty hard to end up in jail ;) But then again, on electronics.SE there are people asking about how to set up pirate TV transmitters in civil war zones. That's an easy way to end up worse than in prison :(
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            5 hours ago


















          2












          $begingroup$


          Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes?




          They are required to identify periodically and they do. That is the Morse code you heard.



          Emergency services (police, fire, EMS) along with taxicabs, tow trucks, anything else that moves on land, is licensed under part 90, Private Land Mobile Service, of the FCC regulations (in the US, other countries similar). The FCC issues a station license with a call sign to the agency. The license generally covers one (or more) base station and some number of mobile units.



          In the past operation was simplex, base station to mobile, and the base station operator would periodically announce the call sign by voice. Now, most operation in via repeater. The repeater will automatically send the station ID by Morse code so the human operator does not have to bother with it. Only the base station has to identify.



          Most FM systems will use CTCSS. They leave the tone off when identifying so anyone monitoring the channel with tone squelch enabled will not be bothered by the ID. I don't really know how P25 systems identify.



          Note: CTCSS = "Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System" = PL (a trade mark). A system that adds a low frequency audio tone to a transmission. Receivers may enable tone access so they will only hear transmissions with the proper tone.



          Addendum: I can see some potential for confusion between answers. Just keep in mind that a land mobile system (e.g. county fire/EMS dispatch) operates as a isolated system. The FCC license and callsign applies to the entire system. Units within the system only talk between units in that system. They don't make random contacts like hams do nor travel outside their jurisdiction. Identifiers for individual units (or people) are assigned by the agency (e.g. "Engine 27", "Chief 15", "Ambulance 498"). That is what they use when communicating within the system. (Then there are some variations such as mutual aid, but let's not get any more complicated).






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            P25 is digital. The amount of data in an identifier (say, if you want to be really generous, say, 64bit) is vastly outswamped by the amount of data you need to convey voice (say, 4400 bit/s for voice in the old P25 phase 1). So, sending an ID for a digital system within a frame is practically "free". Also, P25 supports point-to-point cryptography. If nothing else, handsets can be identified using the cryptographic keys they use.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            3 hours ago














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          3 Answers
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          $begingroup$


          … Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs … ?




          They aren't required to and don't find it useful in their procedures. Also, they don't have call signs in the sense amateurs do — they may have names for different groups in a transmission ("Car #3" or whatever) which are call signs in the sense that they play the same role in radio procedure, but they're not related to radio licensing at all — they're made up for the organization's purposes.




          Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s?




          Yes. Amateur licensing is completely unrelated to licensing for commercial or government two-way radio.



          Amateur radio licenses are granted to a person for their operations, with whatever equipment they like. Commercial and government licenses (in the US, and I would expect similarly elsewhere) are granted to an organization — the individual users do not use any license of their own in order to participate. The organization purchases or rents radios and, usually, "programs" them to operate only on the frequencies they have a license to (so the individual users cannot violate the license and don't have to think about frequencies, just a small list of preset channels).




          And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands?




          They are isolated. The transmissions you are listening to are not in the amateur frequency allocations (bands). Your local radio licensing authority keeps track of the licenses/allocations. (For the FCC in the US: here's the table of allocations and the search engine for individual licenses — including by frequency.)




          And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          Whatever frequency you pick probably belongs to somebody. They'll have expectations about how their licensed allocation is used, and possibly recognize you as not anyone they know and not following any procedures they have. Or, it could be that the allocation in question is used for an incompatible mode (digital something-or-other) in which case you're just another source of RFI.



          Would you "get caught"? Often not, but think of it like trespassing on someone's land — they often might not notice, and they often might not care — or they might care a whole lot. And it's rude, too.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Whatever frequency you pick [...] belongs to somebody.
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Emergency FM systems as I'm used to do have specific callsign conventions, but it's not user-specific (or even station-specific, necessarily), but role-specific. Something like "I'm the leadership crew vehicle machinist of the Karlsruhe branch of the German technical civil protection agency", encoded in numbers.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @MarcusMüller I meant to specify that, but I've edited the paragraph to make it clearer.
            $endgroup$
            – Kevin Reid AG6YO
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @KevinReidAG6YO thanks! I like this answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I’m getting it. This radio works for multiple use cases including ham, but not limited to ham.
            $endgroup$
            – Jason Kleban
            5 hours ago















          4












          $begingroup$


          … Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs … ?




          They aren't required to and don't find it useful in their procedures. Also, they don't have call signs in the sense amateurs do — they may have names for different groups in a transmission ("Car #3" or whatever) which are call signs in the sense that they play the same role in radio procedure, but they're not related to radio licensing at all — they're made up for the organization's purposes.




          Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s?




          Yes. Amateur licensing is completely unrelated to licensing for commercial or government two-way radio.



          Amateur radio licenses are granted to a person for their operations, with whatever equipment they like. Commercial and government licenses (in the US, and I would expect similarly elsewhere) are granted to an organization — the individual users do not use any license of their own in order to participate. The organization purchases or rents radios and, usually, "programs" them to operate only on the frequencies they have a license to (so the individual users cannot violate the license and don't have to think about frequencies, just a small list of preset channels).




          And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands?




          They are isolated. The transmissions you are listening to are not in the amateur frequency allocations (bands). Your local radio licensing authority keeps track of the licenses/allocations. (For the FCC in the US: here's the table of allocations and the search engine for individual licenses — including by frequency.)




          And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          Whatever frequency you pick probably belongs to somebody. They'll have expectations about how their licensed allocation is used, and possibly recognize you as not anyone they know and not following any procedures they have. Or, it could be that the allocation in question is used for an incompatible mode (digital something-or-other) in which case you're just another source of RFI.



          Would you "get caught"? Often not, but think of it like trespassing on someone's land — they often might not notice, and they often might not care — or they might care a whole lot. And it's rude, too.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Whatever frequency you pick [...] belongs to somebody.
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Emergency FM systems as I'm used to do have specific callsign conventions, but it's not user-specific (or even station-specific, necessarily), but role-specific. Something like "I'm the leadership crew vehicle machinist of the Karlsruhe branch of the German technical civil protection agency", encoded in numbers.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @MarcusMüller I meant to specify that, but I've edited the paragraph to make it clearer.
            $endgroup$
            – Kevin Reid AG6YO
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @KevinReidAG6YO thanks! I like this answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I’m getting it. This radio works for multiple use cases including ham, but not limited to ham.
            $endgroup$
            – Jason Kleban
            5 hours ago













          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$


          … Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs … ?




          They aren't required to and don't find it useful in their procedures. Also, they don't have call signs in the sense amateurs do — they may have names for different groups in a transmission ("Car #3" or whatever) which are call signs in the sense that they play the same role in radio procedure, but they're not related to radio licensing at all — they're made up for the organization's purposes.




          Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s?




          Yes. Amateur licensing is completely unrelated to licensing for commercial or government two-way radio.



          Amateur radio licenses are granted to a person for their operations, with whatever equipment they like. Commercial and government licenses (in the US, and I would expect similarly elsewhere) are granted to an organization — the individual users do not use any license of their own in order to participate. The organization purchases or rents radios and, usually, "programs" them to operate only on the frequencies they have a license to (so the individual users cannot violate the license and don't have to think about frequencies, just a small list of preset channels).




          And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands?




          They are isolated. The transmissions you are listening to are not in the amateur frequency allocations (bands). Your local radio licensing authority keeps track of the licenses/allocations. (For the FCC in the US: here's the table of allocations and the search engine for individual licenses — including by frequency.)




          And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          Whatever frequency you pick probably belongs to somebody. They'll have expectations about how their licensed allocation is used, and possibly recognize you as not anyone they know and not following any procedures they have. Or, it could be that the allocation in question is used for an incompatible mode (digital something-or-other) in which case you're just another source of RFI.



          Would you "get caught"? Often not, but think of it like trespassing on someone's land — they often might not notice, and they often might not care — or they might care a whole lot. And it's rude, too.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




          … Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs … ?




          They aren't required to and don't find it useful in their procedures. Also, they don't have call signs in the sense amateurs do — they may have names for different groups in a transmission ("Car #3" or whatever) which are call signs in the sense that they play the same role in radio procedure, but they're not related to radio licensing at all — they're made up for the organization's purposes.




          Are they not required to because they aren’t operating as “amateur”s?




          Yes. Amateur licensing is completely unrelated to licensing for commercial or government two-way radio.



          Amateur radio licenses are granted to a person for their operations, with whatever equipment they like. Commercial and government licenses (in the US, and I would expect similarly elsewhere) are granted to an organization — the individual users do not use any license of their own in order to participate. The organization purchases or rents radios and, usually, "programs" them to operate only on the frequencies they have a license to (so the individual users cannot violate the license and don't have to think about frequencies, just a small list of preset channels).




          And if not, why wouldn’t that type of activity get isolated bands instead of mixing two different vocal protocols in the same bands?




          They are isolated. The transmissions you are listening to are not in the amateur frequency allocations (bands). Your local radio licensing authority keeps track of the licenses/allocations. (For the FCC in the US: here's the table of allocations and the search engine for individual licenses — including by frequency.)




          And if I broadcast on any of the vast empty areas of the spectrum as a range test, who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          Whatever frequency you pick probably belongs to somebody. They'll have expectations about how their licensed allocation is used, and possibly recognize you as not anyone they know and not following any procedures they have. Or, it could be that the allocation in question is used for an incompatible mode (digital something-or-other) in which case you're just another source of RFI.



          Would you "get caught"? Often not, but think of it like trespassing on someone's land — they often might not notice, and they often might not care — or they might care a whole lot. And it's rude, too.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 6 hours ago

























          answered 7 hours ago









          Kevin Reid AG6YOKevin Reid AG6YO

          18k4 gold badges35 silver badges79 bronze badges




          18k4 gold badges35 silver badges79 bronze badges














          • $begingroup$
            Whatever frequency you pick [...] belongs to somebody.
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Emergency FM systems as I'm used to do have specific callsign conventions, but it's not user-specific (or even station-specific, necessarily), but role-specific. Something like "I'm the leadership crew vehicle machinist of the Karlsruhe branch of the German technical civil protection agency", encoded in numbers.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @MarcusMüller I meant to specify that, but I've edited the paragraph to make it clearer.
            $endgroup$
            – Kevin Reid AG6YO
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @KevinReidAG6YO thanks! I like this answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I’m getting it. This radio works for multiple use cases including ham, but not limited to ham.
            $endgroup$
            – Jason Kleban
            5 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Whatever frequency you pick [...] belongs to somebody.
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            7 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Emergency FM systems as I'm used to do have specific callsign conventions, but it's not user-specific (or even station-specific, necessarily), but role-specific. Something like "I'm the leadership crew vehicle machinist of the Karlsruhe branch of the German technical civil protection agency", encoded in numbers.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @MarcusMüller I meant to specify that, but I've edited the paragraph to make it clearer.
            $endgroup$
            – Kevin Reid AG6YO
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @KevinReidAG6YO thanks! I like this answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I’m getting it. This radio works for multiple use cases including ham, but not limited to ham.
            $endgroup$
            – Jason Kleban
            5 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Whatever frequency you pick [...] belongs to somebody.
          $endgroup$
          – Mike Waters
          7 hours ago





          $begingroup$
          Whatever frequency you pick [...] belongs to somebody.
          $endgroup$
          – Mike Waters
          7 hours ago













          $begingroup$
          Emergency FM systems as I'm used to do have specific callsign conventions, but it's not user-specific (or even station-specific, necessarily), but role-specific. Something like "I'm the leadership crew vehicle machinist of the Karlsruhe branch of the German technical civil protection agency", encoded in numbers.
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Emergency FM systems as I'm used to do have specific callsign conventions, but it's not user-specific (or even station-specific, necessarily), but role-specific. Something like "I'm the leadership crew vehicle machinist of the Karlsruhe branch of the German technical civil protection agency", encoded in numbers.
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          6 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @MarcusMüller I meant to specify that, but I've edited the paragraph to make it clearer.
          $endgroup$
          – Kevin Reid AG6YO
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @MarcusMüller I meant to specify that, but I've edited the paragraph to make it clearer.
          $endgroup$
          – Kevin Reid AG6YO
          6 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @KevinReidAG6YO thanks! I like this answer.
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @KevinReidAG6YO thanks! I like this answer.
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          6 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          I’m getting it. This radio works for multiple use cases including ham, but not limited to ham.
          $endgroup$
          – Jason Kleban
          5 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          I’m getting it. This radio works for multiple use cases including ham, but not limited to ham.
          $endgroup$
          – Jason Kleban
          5 hours ago













          2












          $begingroup$


          who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          There's national regulations agencies that monitor the spectrum, and come when someone notifies them of an interference. They can fine you! (And: Typically will fine you if they find you in intentional abuse of spectrum.)



          Also, be a bit careful about not accidentally using a military allotment. Depending on the service, your country's attitude towards that and the mood of whoever is in charge of the military devices you're interfering with: Visits by these guys will probably not be overly pleasant.



          Location of a radio emitter is a lot easier than you might think, especially if you're an agency not afraid of spending a couple dozen kilodollar on radiolocation systems (which are commercially available).



          I fully agree with everything Kevin wrote: don't test your luck, and don't interefere with someone's potentially life-critical systems. It's plain rude and inconsiderate!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Yes! And would you enjoy being behind bars in a prison? Think it over very carefully. ;-)
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            to be honest, in most places you'd have to interfere pretty hard to end up in jail ;) But then again, on electronics.SE there are people asking about how to set up pirate TV transmitters in civil war zones. That's an easy way to end up worse than in prison :(
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            5 hours ago















          2












          $begingroup$


          who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          There's national regulations agencies that monitor the spectrum, and come when someone notifies them of an interference. They can fine you! (And: Typically will fine you if they find you in intentional abuse of spectrum.)



          Also, be a bit careful about not accidentally using a military allotment. Depending on the service, your country's attitude towards that and the mood of whoever is in charge of the military devices you're interfering with: Visits by these guys will probably not be overly pleasant.



          Location of a radio emitter is a lot easier than you might think, especially if you're an agency not afraid of spending a couple dozen kilodollar on radiolocation systems (which are commercially available).



          I fully agree with everything Kevin wrote: don't test your luck, and don't interefere with someone's potentially life-critical systems. It's plain rude and inconsiderate!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Yes! And would you enjoy being behind bars in a prison? Think it over very carefully. ;-)
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            to be honest, in most places you'd have to interfere pretty hard to end up in jail ;) But then again, on electronics.SE there are people asking about how to set up pirate TV transmitters in civil war zones. That's an easy way to end up worse than in prison :(
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            5 hours ago













          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$


          who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          There's national regulations agencies that monitor the spectrum, and come when someone notifies them of an interference. They can fine you! (And: Typically will fine you if they find you in intentional abuse of spectrum.)



          Also, be a bit careful about not accidentally using a military allotment. Depending on the service, your country's attitude towards that and the mood of whoever is in charge of the military devices you're interfering with: Visits by these guys will probably not be overly pleasant.



          Location of a radio emitter is a lot easier than you might think, especially if you're an agency not afraid of spending a couple dozen kilodollar on radiolocation systems (which are commercially available).



          I fully agree with everything Kevin wrote: don't test your luck, and don't interefere with someone's potentially life-critical systems. It's plain rude and inconsiderate!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




          who would know I wasn’t just some emergency/government service?




          There's national regulations agencies that monitor the spectrum, and come when someone notifies them of an interference. They can fine you! (And: Typically will fine you if they find you in intentional abuse of spectrum.)



          Also, be a bit careful about not accidentally using a military allotment. Depending on the service, your country's attitude towards that and the mood of whoever is in charge of the military devices you're interfering with: Visits by these guys will probably not be overly pleasant.



          Location of a radio emitter is a lot easier than you might think, especially if you're an agency not afraid of spending a couple dozen kilodollar on radiolocation systems (which are commercially available).



          I fully agree with everything Kevin wrote: don't test your luck, and don't interefere with someone's potentially life-critical systems. It's plain rude and inconsiderate!







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 6 hours ago









          Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller

          8,29211 silver badges32 bronze badges




          8,29211 silver badges32 bronze badges














          • $begingroup$
            Yes! And would you enjoy being behind bars in a prison? Think it over very carefully. ;-)
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            to be honest, in most places you'd have to interfere pretty hard to end up in jail ;) But then again, on electronics.SE there are people asking about how to set up pirate TV transmitters in civil war zones. That's an easy way to end up worse than in prison :(
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            5 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Yes! And would you enjoy being behind bars in a prison? Think it over very carefully. ;-)
            $endgroup$
            – Mike Waters
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            to be honest, in most places you'd have to interfere pretty hard to end up in jail ;) But then again, on electronics.SE there are people asking about how to set up pirate TV transmitters in civil war zones. That's an easy way to end up worse than in prison :(
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            5 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Yes! And would you enjoy being behind bars in a prison? Think it over very carefully. ;-)
          $endgroup$
          – Mike Waters
          5 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Yes! And would you enjoy being behind bars in a prison? Think it over very carefully. ;-)
          $endgroup$
          – Mike Waters
          5 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          to be honest, in most places you'd have to interfere pretty hard to end up in jail ;) But then again, on electronics.SE there are people asking about how to set up pirate TV transmitters in civil war zones. That's an easy way to end up worse than in prison :(
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          5 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          to be honest, in most places you'd have to interfere pretty hard to end up in jail ;) But then again, on electronics.SE there are people asking about how to set up pirate TV transmitters in civil war zones. That's an easy way to end up worse than in prison :(
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          5 hours ago











          2












          $begingroup$


          Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes?




          They are required to identify periodically and they do. That is the Morse code you heard.



          Emergency services (police, fire, EMS) along with taxicabs, tow trucks, anything else that moves on land, is licensed under part 90, Private Land Mobile Service, of the FCC regulations (in the US, other countries similar). The FCC issues a station license with a call sign to the agency. The license generally covers one (or more) base station and some number of mobile units.



          In the past operation was simplex, base station to mobile, and the base station operator would periodically announce the call sign by voice. Now, most operation in via repeater. The repeater will automatically send the station ID by Morse code so the human operator does not have to bother with it. Only the base station has to identify.



          Most FM systems will use CTCSS. They leave the tone off when identifying so anyone monitoring the channel with tone squelch enabled will not be bothered by the ID. I don't really know how P25 systems identify.



          Note: CTCSS = "Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System" = PL (a trade mark). A system that adds a low frequency audio tone to a transmission. Receivers may enable tone access so they will only hear transmissions with the proper tone.



          Addendum: I can see some potential for confusion between answers. Just keep in mind that a land mobile system (e.g. county fire/EMS dispatch) operates as a isolated system. The FCC license and callsign applies to the entire system. Units within the system only talk between units in that system. They don't make random contacts like hams do nor travel outside their jurisdiction. Identifiers for individual units (or people) are assigned by the agency (e.g. "Engine 27", "Chief 15", "Ambulance 498"). That is what they use when communicating within the system. (Then there are some variations such as mutual aid, but let's not get any more complicated).






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            P25 is digital. The amount of data in an identifier (say, if you want to be really generous, say, 64bit) is vastly outswamped by the amount of data you need to convey voice (say, 4400 bit/s for voice in the old P25 phase 1). So, sending an ID for a digital system within a frame is practically "free". Also, P25 supports point-to-point cryptography. If nothing else, handsets can be identified using the cryptographic keys they use.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            3 hours ago
















          2












          $begingroup$


          Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes?




          They are required to identify periodically and they do. That is the Morse code you heard.



          Emergency services (police, fire, EMS) along with taxicabs, tow trucks, anything else that moves on land, is licensed under part 90, Private Land Mobile Service, of the FCC regulations (in the US, other countries similar). The FCC issues a station license with a call sign to the agency. The license generally covers one (or more) base station and some number of mobile units.



          In the past operation was simplex, base station to mobile, and the base station operator would periodically announce the call sign by voice. Now, most operation in via repeater. The repeater will automatically send the station ID by Morse code so the human operator does not have to bother with it. Only the base station has to identify.



          Most FM systems will use CTCSS. They leave the tone off when identifying so anyone monitoring the channel with tone squelch enabled will not be bothered by the ID. I don't really know how P25 systems identify.



          Note: CTCSS = "Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System" = PL (a trade mark). A system that adds a low frequency audio tone to a transmission. Receivers may enable tone access so they will only hear transmissions with the proper tone.



          Addendum: I can see some potential for confusion between answers. Just keep in mind that a land mobile system (e.g. county fire/EMS dispatch) operates as a isolated system. The FCC license and callsign applies to the entire system. Units within the system only talk between units in that system. They don't make random contacts like hams do nor travel outside their jurisdiction. Identifiers for individual units (or people) are assigned by the agency (e.g. "Engine 27", "Chief 15", "Ambulance 498"). That is what they use when communicating within the system. (Then there are some variations such as mutual aid, but let's not get any more complicated).






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            P25 is digital. The amount of data in an identifier (say, if you want to be really generous, say, 64bit) is vastly outswamped by the amount of data you need to convey voice (say, 4400 bit/s for voice in the old P25 phase 1). So, sending an ID for a digital system within a frame is practically "free". Also, P25 supports point-to-point cryptography. If nothing else, handsets can be identified using the cryptographic keys they use.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            3 hours ago














          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$


          Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes?




          They are required to identify periodically and they do. That is the Morse code you heard.



          Emergency services (police, fire, EMS) along with taxicabs, tow trucks, anything else that moves on land, is licensed under part 90, Private Land Mobile Service, of the FCC regulations (in the US, other countries similar). The FCC issues a station license with a call sign to the agency. The license generally covers one (or more) base station and some number of mobile units.



          In the past operation was simplex, base station to mobile, and the base station operator would periodically announce the call sign by voice. Now, most operation in via repeater. The repeater will automatically send the station ID by Morse code so the human operator does not have to bother with it. Only the base station has to identify.



          Most FM systems will use CTCSS. They leave the tone off when identifying so anyone monitoring the channel with tone squelch enabled will not be bothered by the ID. I don't really know how P25 systems identify.



          Note: CTCSS = "Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System" = PL (a trade mark). A system that adds a low frequency audio tone to a transmission. Receivers may enable tone access so they will only hear transmissions with the proper tone.



          Addendum: I can see some potential for confusion between answers. Just keep in mind that a land mobile system (e.g. county fire/EMS dispatch) operates as a isolated system. The FCC license and callsign applies to the entire system. Units within the system only talk between units in that system. They don't make random contacts like hams do nor travel outside their jurisdiction. Identifiers for individual units (or people) are assigned by the agency (e.g. "Engine 27", "Chief 15", "Ambulance 498"). That is what they use when communicating within the system. (Then there are some variations such as mutual aid, but let's not get any more complicated).






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          $endgroup$




          Why don’t these unencrypted FM emergency services seem to use any call signs or ham codes?




          They are required to identify periodically and they do. That is the Morse code you heard.



          Emergency services (police, fire, EMS) along with taxicabs, tow trucks, anything else that moves on land, is licensed under part 90, Private Land Mobile Service, of the FCC regulations (in the US, other countries similar). The FCC issues a station license with a call sign to the agency. The license generally covers one (or more) base station and some number of mobile units.



          In the past operation was simplex, base station to mobile, and the base station operator would periodically announce the call sign by voice. Now, most operation in via repeater. The repeater will automatically send the station ID by Morse code so the human operator does not have to bother with it. Only the base station has to identify.



          Most FM systems will use CTCSS. They leave the tone off when identifying so anyone monitoring the channel with tone squelch enabled will not be bothered by the ID. I don't really know how P25 systems identify.



          Note: CTCSS = "Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System" = PL (a trade mark). A system that adds a low frequency audio tone to a transmission. Receivers may enable tone access so they will only hear transmissions with the proper tone.



          Addendum: I can see some potential for confusion between answers. Just keep in mind that a land mobile system (e.g. county fire/EMS dispatch) operates as a isolated system. The FCC license and callsign applies to the entire system. Units within the system only talk between units in that system. They don't make random contacts like hams do nor travel outside their jurisdiction. Identifiers for individual units (or people) are assigned by the agency (e.g. "Engine 27", "Chief 15", "Ambulance 498"). That is what they use when communicating within the system. (Then there are some variations such as mutual aid, but let's not get any more complicated).







          share|improve this answer










          New contributor



          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.








          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 1 hour ago





















          New contributor



          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.








          answered 5 hours ago









          WA9ZZZWA9ZZZ

          213 bronze badges




          213 bronze badges




          New contributor



          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.




          New contributor




          WA9ZZZ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.
















          • $begingroup$
            P25 is digital. The amount of data in an identifier (say, if you want to be really generous, say, 64bit) is vastly outswamped by the amount of data you need to convey voice (say, 4400 bit/s for voice in the old P25 phase 1). So, sending an ID for a digital system within a frame is practically "free". Also, P25 supports point-to-point cryptography. If nothing else, handsets can be identified using the cryptographic keys they use.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            3 hours ago

















          • $begingroup$
            P25 is digital. The amount of data in an identifier (say, if you want to be really generous, say, 64bit) is vastly outswamped by the amount of data you need to convey voice (say, 4400 bit/s for voice in the old P25 phase 1). So, sending an ID for a digital system within a frame is practically "free". Also, P25 supports point-to-point cryptography. If nothing else, handsets can be identified using the cryptographic keys they use.
            $endgroup$
            – Marcus Müller
            3 hours ago
















          $begingroup$
          P25 is digital. The amount of data in an identifier (say, if you want to be really generous, say, 64bit) is vastly outswamped by the amount of data you need to convey voice (say, 4400 bit/s for voice in the old P25 phase 1). So, sending an ID for a digital system within a frame is practically "free". Also, P25 supports point-to-point cryptography. If nothing else, handsets can be identified using the cryptographic keys they use.
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          3 hours ago





          $begingroup$
          P25 is digital. The amount of data in an identifier (say, if you want to be really generous, say, 64bit) is vastly outswamped by the amount of data you need to convey voice (say, 4400 bit/s for voice in the old P25 phase 1). So, sending an ID for a digital system within a frame is practically "free". Also, P25 supports point-to-point cryptography. If nothing else, handsets can be identified using the cryptographic keys they use.
          $endgroup$
          – Marcus Müller
          3 hours ago











          Jason Kleban is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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          Jason Kleban is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












          Jason Kleban is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











          Jason Kleban is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














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