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How does the barbarian's bonus damage from Rage interact with two-weapon fighting?



How does the barbarian's bonus damage from Rage interact with two-weapon fighting?


Is dual-wielding superior to great weapons for a raging Barbarian?Two-Weapon Fighting & Bonus Action in 5eHow does Rage interact with Wild Shape?What might be the downside of taking the Dueling fighting style over Great Weapon Fighting?Wielding two weapons without “Two-Weapon Fighting” or “Dual Wielder”?Is the Polearm Master Feat compatible with the Two-Weapon Fighting style?Can a monk-barbarian benefit from Reckless Attack & Rage damage if he chooses Dexterity for his attacks?What are the advantages to fighting with a 1-handed weapon and a free hand?Does it matter which weapon I attack with first when two-weapon fighting?Can I Two-Weapon fight after Two-Handed-Weapon fighting?Is this Axemaster homebrew barbarian Primal Path balanced?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








6












$begingroup$


Some days ago, I created for someone a barbarian dwarf character sheet.
Everything went well, and the sheet is complete.



As I'm very new to D&D, I decided to read through the barbarian class to get what could be nice this future player to have, as I know pretty much know what she's looking for for this character.



What brings me here is a question about the Rage class feature, and more precisely about the bonus damage. The description of Rage states (emphasis mine):




While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t wearing heavy armor:



  • You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.


  • When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.

  • You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.



From what I understand, when taking the Attack action using, for example, a Greataxe, if the attack hits, the damage will be:




1d12 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Also, the bonus damage is linked to the melee weapon attack, not to the Attack action - which made me wonder how this bonus damage applies when the barbarian is wielding two weapons.



Also, from what I understand, if the barbarian takes the Attack action while wielding, say, two handaxes, and both attacks land, each attack's damage will be:




1d6 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Thus, that would lead to double the Rage bonus damage, which seems pretty strong to me and makes two-weapon fighting more valuable than just having one two-handed weapon, as two-weapon fighting also guarantees at least 2 damage, increasing the average damage a bit for the same max damage.



Does it work as I've understood it? If yes, won't it make two-handed weapons useless for a barbarian?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Heavily related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/106631/…
    $endgroup$
    – Pyrotechnical
    8 hours ago

















6












$begingroup$


Some days ago, I created for someone a barbarian dwarf character sheet.
Everything went well, and the sheet is complete.



As I'm very new to D&D, I decided to read through the barbarian class to get what could be nice this future player to have, as I know pretty much know what she's looking for for this character.



What brings me here is a question about the Rage class feature, and more precisely about the bonus damage. The description of Rage states (emphasis mine):




While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t wearing heavy armor:



  • You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.


  • When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.

  • You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.



From what I understand, when taking the Attack action using, for example, a Greataxe, if the attack hits, the damage will be:




1d12 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Also, the bonus damage is linked to the melee weapon attack, not to the Attack action - which made me wonder how this bonus damage applies when the barbarian is wielding two weapons.



Also, from what I understand, if the barbarian takes the Attack action while wielding, say, two handaxes, and both attacks land, each attack's damage will be:




1d6 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Thus, that would lead to double the Rage bonus damage, which seems pretty strong to me and makes two-weapon fighting more valuable than just having one two-handed weapon, as two-weapon fighting also guarantees at least 2 damage, increasing the average damage a bit for the same max damage.



Does it work as I've understood it? If yes, won't it make two-handed weapons useless for a barbarian?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Heavily related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/106631/…
    $endgroup$
    – Pyrotechnical
    8 hours ago













6












6








6





$begingroup$


Some days ago, I created for someone a barbarian dwarf character sheet.
Everything went well, and the sheet is complete.



As I'm very new to D&D, I decided to read through the barbarian class to get what could be nice this future player to have, as I know pretty much know what she's looking for for this character.



What brings me here is a question about the Rage class feature, and more precisely about the bonus damage. The description of Rage states (emphasis mine):




While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t wearing heavy armor:



  • You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.


  • When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.

  • You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.



From what I understand, when taking the Attack action using, for example, a Greataxe, if the attack hits, the damage will be:




1d12 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Also, the bonus damage is linked to the melee weapon attack, not to the Attack action - which made me wonder how this bonus damage applies when the barbarian is wielding two weapons.



Also, from what I understand, if the barbarian takes the Attack action while wielding, say, two handaxes, and both attacks land, each attack's damage will be:




1d6 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Thus, that would lead to double the Rage bonus damage, which seems pretty strong to me and makes two-weapon fighting more valuable than just having one two-handed weapon, as two-weapon fighting also guarantees at least 2 damage, increasing the average damage a bit for the same max damage.



Does it work as I've understood it? If yes, won't it make two-handed weapons useless for a barbarian?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Some days ago, I created for someone a barbarian dwarf character sheet.
Everything went well, and the sheet is complete.



As I'm very new to D&D, I decided to read through the barbarian class to get what could be nice this future player to have, as I know pretty much know what she's looking for for this character.



What brings me here is a question about the Rage class feature, and more precisely about the bonus damage. The description of Rage states (emphasis mine):




While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t wearing heavy armor:



  • You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.


  • When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.

  • You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.



From what I understand, when taking the Attack action using, for example, a Greataxe, if the attack hits, the damage will be:




1d12 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Also, the bonus damage is linked to the melee weapon attack, not to the Attack action - which made me wonder how this bonus damage applies when the barbarian is wielding two weapons.



Also, from what I understand, if the barbarian takes the Attack action while wielding, say, two handaxes, and both attacks land, each attack's damage will be:




1d6 + Strength Mod + Rage bonus damage




Thus, that would lead to double the Rage bonus damage, which seems pretty strong to me and makes two-weapon fighting more valuable than just having one two-handed weapon, as two-weapon fighting also guarantees at least 2 damage, increasing the average damage a bit for the same max damage.



Does it work as I've understood it? If yes, won't it make two-handed weapons useless for a barbarian?







dnd-5e barbarian two-weapon-fighting rage






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




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edited 23 mins ago









V2Blast

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asked 15 hours ago









ZomaZoma

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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Heavily related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/106631/…
    $endgroup$
    – Pyrotechnical
    8 hours ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Heavily related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/106631/…
    $endgroup$
    – Pyrotechnical
    8 hours ago







1




1




$begingroup$
Heavily related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/106631/…
$endgroup$
– Pyrotechnical
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Heavily related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/106631/…
$endgroup$
– Pyrotechnical
8 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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9












$begingroup$

Two-handed weapons are not useless: bonus action and TWF



The two weapon fighting that a barbarian can use is not the same as the Fighter/Ranger fighting style option "Two-Weapon Fighting." Only that class feature allows the Fighter/Ranger to add their Ability Score Modifier to the second weapon's damage.



Each successful attack (using Strength) gets the Rage damage bonus



Assume a barbarian with a Strength of 16. (+3 damage modifier)



The Two-Weapon Fighting rule (Chapter 9) states:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon
that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack
with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other
hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus
attack, unless that modifier is negative
.




The Barbarian has to use a bonus action to trigger their Rage (PHB, Chapter 3):




In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter
a rage as a bonus action. snip
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.




Let's see how a three round battle will go.



  1. Round 1, trigger rage and one 2H weapon attack, or, one hand axe attack plus rage.

  2. Round 2. One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

  3. Round 3, One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

Damage comparison



Two-handed sword versus two hand axes: damage if we presume that all attacks hit



  1. Round 1: 2d6 + rage + STR (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + rage Str mod. (1d6+5)

    Advantage 2H weapon.


  2. Round 2: 2d6 + rage + Str (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + 1d6 + rage + rage +
    str mod (only on first blow) (2d6 +7)

    Total after two rounds is: WH 4d6 + 6 + 4 (24) vs 3d6 + 6 + 6 (22.5) Slight lead to 2H weapon



  3. Round 3: Same as round two, but now TWF takes a slight lead, since:



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d6 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 36.5)



Note: you gotta hit it to damage it.



An advantage accrues to the TWF approach if the fight lasts that long due to having more chances to hit. There are two chances to hit on the second and third rounds, whereas with the 2H weapon, there is only one chance to hit on each turn. You'll have a total of 5 attack rolls, rather than 3 attack rolls, if the dwarf goes with the two hand axes.



For what it's worth...



If the Barbarian takes the Dual Wielder Feat at level 4, they can use 1d8 damage dealing warhammers, battle axes, or long swords. The longer the battle goes on, the more two weapon fighting approach looks to be more advantageous. But, after level 5 where the Barbarian gets two attacks, this changes things enough that you may see the 2H weapon being a good or better choice.




  • We have a number of Q&As that compare TWF with 2H-weapons that go
    into far more detail about that. Since you are dealing with a
    beginner that's not germane for this question. If she gets to level 4 and considers that feat, I suggest you drop a question here to ask about the pros and cons of the Dual Wielder Feat for a Barbarian versus fighting with two-handed weapons.



    The same three round fight with the dual wielder feat, at level 4, using battle axes (1d8) as one handed weapons, yields this result after three rounds



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d8 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 41.5)
    Round 1 is still "advantage 2H weapon" and round 2 is roughly a tie.



    This looks to be a little more attractive, except during the first round, and the 5 versus 3 attack rolls means that there will be fewer misses. Each miss by the 2H weapon is a bigger loss of damage to the target.



Things change at 5th level for most martial characters



The 2H weapon barbarian gets another spike in attractiveness at level 5, so early rounds tend to favor the two handed weapon.



The Two Handed Weapon Barbarian gets two attacks. TWF gets three on rounds 2 and subsequent, using the bonus action. Damage summary:



Round 1: 4d6+2Str+2Rage 2H vs 2d8+ 2Str + 2 Rage for TWF
Round 2: 4d6+2STR+2Rage vs 3d8+ 2Str + 3 Rage
(All subsequent rounds are per Round )



The fight has to go on for a bit longer than two rounds for the TWF to begin to show advantages.



If the Dwarf does not take a feat, but instead boosts Strength to 18 at level 4, all attacks hit more often, all attacks get another damage point boost from strength, and the 2H weapon approach begins to look more attractive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The "for what it's worth" leaves out that (a) the Barbarian that didnt' take Dal Wielder could instead take +2Str, and (b) both Barbarians get two base attacks per round starting at level 5 (one level later) both of those push the math in favor of the two-handed weapon (...and in a way that's not entirely predictable, given taht the strength bonus results in a bonus to hit)
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden The question is from a beginning DM with beginning players. I mention that bit that "it gets more complicated at level 5" and I've edited it. I agree with your points, I just think they are beyond scope for this answer, and maybe the "FWIW" is extraneous. Naur Arch had asked the other answer about Dual Weapon feat ... so I bit on that. 8^D
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    13 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    You’re considering the TWF feat and not the Great Weapon Fighting feat?
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @nick012000 Because I don't want to get into the +10/-5 fiddly bits, because this is a beginner DM and a beginer player, and the focus of the question is on Two Weapon Fighting. This answer is long enough already. Even without the GWF feat, unless the fight goes on for a very long time, the 2H approach is still pretty attractive. IMO, GWF needs its own Q&A when this player gets to 4th level.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago



















6












$begingroup$

The rage bonus is added to all your melee weapon attacks that use Strength



However, you do have your damage calculations wrong, as I'm not sure where you are getting a "Mastery bonus" from.



The attack with a greataxe (or any single weapon) would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier




See Damage rules where it says:




When attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifier--the same modifier used for the attack roll--to the damage.




Nothing else is added by virtue of the basic rules.



If you are raging then you add your rage bonus, so the full damage would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier + Rage bonus.




Two weapon fighting



See the rules here. To quote:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.




The emphasis is mine. So if you qualify for two weapon fighting (using light melee weapons), then your bonus attack would just be:




Weapon damage die + rage bonus (no strength mod)




Note - There is a 'fighting style' - an option for fighters and some other classes - that allow you to add your modifier to the damage of your bonus attack. But this is not accessible to a (single-classed) barbarian.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    @Miniman: Yep - got confused. Correcting now
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning that TWF and Raging both use bonus action - so can't be done on the same turn as you start raging?
    $endgroup$
    – Tiggerous
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning how adding the Dual Wielder Feat may change things?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ thanks for pointing out that I written bonus for hit roll instead of damage roll, I edited it. And good catch for bonus action, didn't though about it and it looks more balanced to me now.
    $endgroup$
    – Zoma
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since the question has been edited to correct the incorrect phrasing, you may want to update your answer accordingly.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    19 mins ago














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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2






active

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active

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active

oldest

votes









9












$begingroup$

Two-handed weapons are not useless: bonus action and TWF



The two weapon fighting that a barbarian can use is not the same as the Fighter/Ranger fighting style option "Two-Weapon Fighting." Only that class feature allows the Fighter/Ranger to add their Ability Score Modifier to the second weapon's damage.



Each successful attack (using Strength) gets the Rage damage bonus



Assume a barbarian with a Strength of 16. (+3 damage modifier)



The Two-Weapon Fighting rule (Chapter 9) states:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon
that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack
with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other
hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus
attack, unless that modifier is negative
.




The Barbarian has to use a bonus action to trigger their Rage (PHB, Chapter 3):




In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter
a rage as a bonus action. snip
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.




Let's see how a three round battle will go.



  1. Round 1, trigger rage and one 2H weapon attack, or, one hand axe attack plus rage.

  2. Round 2. One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

  3. Round 3, One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

Damage comparison



Two-handed sword versus two hand axes: damage if we presume that all attacks hit



  1. Round 1: 2d6 + rage + STR (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + rage Str mod. (1d6+5)

    Advantage 2H weapon.


  2. Round 2: 2d6 + rage + Str (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + 1d6 + rage + rage +
    str mod (only on first blow) (2d6 +7)

    Total after two rounds is: WH 4d6 + 6 + 4 (24) vs 3d6 + 6 + 6 (22.5) Slight lead to 2H weapon



  3. Round 3: Same as round two, but now TWF takes a slight lead, since:



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d6 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 36.5)



Note: you gotta hit it to damage it.



An advantage accrues to the TWF approach if the fight lasts that long due to having more chances to hit. There are two chances to hit on the second and third rounds, whereas with the 2H weapon, there is only one chance to hit on each turn. You'll have a total of 5 attack rolls, rather than 3 attack rolls, if the dwarf goes with the two hand axes.



For what it's worth...



If the Barbarian takes the Dual Wielder Feat at level 4, they can use 1d8 damage dealing warhammers, battle axes, or long swords. The longer the battle goes on, the more two weapon fighting approach looks to be more advantageous. But, after level 5 where the Barbarian gets two attacks, this changes things enough that you may see the 2H weapon being a good or better choice.




  • We have a number of Q&As that compare TWF with 2H-weapons that go
    into far more detail about that. Since you are dealing with a
    beginner that's not germane for this question. If she gets to level 4 and considers that feat, I suggest you drop a question here to ask about the pros and cons of the Dual Wielder Feat for a Barbarian versus fighting with two-handed weapons.



    The same three round fight with the dual wielder feat, at level 4, using battle axes (1d8) as one handed weapons, yields this result after three rounds



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d8 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 41.5)
    Round 1 is still "advantage 2H weapon" and round 2 is roughly a tie.



    This looks to be a little more attractive, except during the first round, and the 5 versus 3 attack rolls means that there will be fewer misses. Each miss by the 2H weapon is a bigger loss of damage to the target.



Things change at 5th level for most martial characters



The 2H weapon barbarian gets another spike in attractiveness at level 5, so early rounds tend to favor the two handed weapon.



The Two Handed Weapon Barbarian gets two attacks. TWF gets three on rounds 2 and subsequent, using the bonus action. Damage summary:



Round 1: 4d6+2Str+2Rage 2H vs 2d8+ 2Str + 2 Rage for TWF
Round 2: 4d6+2STR+2Rage vs 3d8+ 2Str + 3 Rage
(All subsequent rounds are per Round )



The fight has to go on for a bit longer than two rounds for the TWF to begin to show advantages.



If the Dwarf does not take a feat, but instead boosts Strength to 18 at level 4, all attacks hit more often, all attacks get another damage point boost from strength, and the 2H weapon approach begins to look more attractive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The "for what it's worth" leaves out that (a) the Barbarian that didnt' take Dal Wielder could instead take +2Str, and (b) both Barbarians get two base attacks per round starting at level 5 (one level later) both of those push the math in favor of the two-handed weapon (...and in a way that's not entirely predictable, given taht the strength bonus results in a bonus to hit)
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden The question is from a beginning DM with beginning players. I mention that bit that "it gets more complicated at level 5" and I've edited it. I agree with your points, I just think they are beyond scope for this answer, and maybe the "FWIW" is extraneous. Naur Arch had asked the other answer about Dual Weapon feat ... so I bit on that. 8^D
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    13 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    You’re considering the TWF feat and not the Great Weapon Fighting feat?
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @nick012000 Because I don't want to get into the +10/-5 fiddly bits, because this is a beginner DM and a beginer player, and the focus of the question is on Two Weapon Fighting. This answer is long enough already. Even without the GWF feat, unless the fight goes on for a very long time, the 2H approach is still pretty attractive. IMO, GWF needs its own Q&A when this player gets to 4th level.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago
















9












$begingroup$

Two-handed weapons are not useless: bonus action and TWF



The two weapon fighting that a barbarian can use is not the same as the Fighter/Ranger fighting style option "Two-Weapon Fighting." Only that class feature allows the Fighter/Ranger to add their Ability Score Modifier to the second weapon's damage.



Each successful attack (using Strength) gets the Rage damage bonus



Assume a barbarian with a Strength of 16. (+3 damage modifier)



The Two-Weapon Fighting rule (Chapter 9) states:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon
that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack
with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other
hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus
attack, unless that modifier is negative
.




The Barbarian has to use a bonus action to trigger their Rage (PHB, Chapter 3):




In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter
a rage as a bonus action. snip
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.




Let's see how a three round battle will go.



  1. Round 1, trigger rage and one 2H weapon attack, or, one hand axe attack plus rage.

  2. Round 2. One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

  3. Round 3, One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

Damage comparison



Two-handed sword versus two hand axes: damage if we presume that all attacks hit



  1. Round 1: 2d6 + rage + STR (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + rage Str mod. (1d6+5)

    Advantage 2H weapon.


  2. Round 2: 2d6 + rage + Str (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + 1d6 + rage + rage +
    str mod (only on first blow) (2d6 +7)

    Total after two rounds is: WH 4d6 + 6 + 4 (24) vs 3d6 + 6 + 6 (22.5) Slight lead to 2H weapon



  3. Round 3: Same as round two, but now TWF takes a slight lead, since:



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d6 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 36.5)



Note: you gotta hit it to damage it.



An advantage accrues to the TWF approach if the fight lasts that long due to having more chances to hit. There are two chances to hit on the second and third rounds, whereas with the 2H weapon, there is only one chance to hit on each turn. You'll have a total of 5 attack rolls, rather than 3 attack rolls, if the dwarf goes with the two hand axes.



For what it's worth...



If the Barbarian takes the Dual Wielder Feat at level 4, they can use 1d8 damage dealing warhammers, battle axes, or long swords. The longer the battle goes on, the more two weapon fighting approach looks to be more advantageous. But, after level 5 where the Barbarian gets two attacks, this changes things enough that you may see the 2H weapon being a good or better choice.




  • We have a number of Q&As that compare TWF with 2H-weapons that go
    into far more detail about that. Since you are dealing with a
    beginner that's not germane for this question. If she gets to level 4 and considers that feat, I suggest you drop a question here to ask about the pros and cons of the Dual Wielder Feat for a Barbarian versus fighting with two-handed weapons.



    The same three round fight with the dual wielder feat, at level 4, using battle axes (1d8) as one handed weapons, yields this result after three rounds



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d8 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 41.5)
    Round 1 is still "advantage 2H weapon" and round 2 is roughly a tie.



    This looks to be a little more attractive, except during the first round, and the 5 versus 3 attack rolls means that there will be fewer misses. Each miss by the 2H weapon is a bigger loss of damage to the target.



Things change at 5th level for most martial characters



The 2H weapon barbarian gets another spike in attractiveness at level 5, so early rounds tend to favor the two handed weapon.



The Two Handed Weapon Barbarian gets two attacks. TWF gets three on rounds 2 and subsequent, using the bonus action. Damage summary:



Round 1: 4d6+2Str+2Rage 2H vs 2d8+ 2Str + 2 Rage for TWF
Round 2: 4d6+2STR+2Rage vs 3d8+ 2Str + 3 Rage
(All subsequent rounds are per Round )



The fight has to go on for a bit longer than two rounds for the TWF to begin to show advantages.



If the Dwarf does not take a feat, but instead boosts Strength to 18 at level 4, all attacks hit more often, all attacks get another damage point boost from strength, and the 2H weapon approach begins to look more attractive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The "for what it's worth" leaves out that (a) the Barbarian that didnt' take Dal Wielder could instead take +2Str, and (b) both Barbarians get two base attacks per round starting at level 5 (one level later) both of those push the math in favor of the two-handed weapon (...and in a way that's not entirely predictable, given taht the strength bonus results in a bonus to hit)
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden The question is from a beginning DM with beginning players. I mention that bit that "it gets more complicated at level 5" and I've edited it. I agree with your points, I just think they are beyond scope for this answer, and maybe the "FWIW" is extraneous. Naur Arch had asked the other answer about Dual Weapon feat ... so I bit on that. 8^D
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    13 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    You’re considering the TWF feat and not the Great Weapon Fighting feat?
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @nick012000 Because I don't want to get into the +10/-5 fiddly bits, because this is a beginner DM and a beginer player, and the focus of the question is on Two Weapon Fighting. This answer is long enough already. Even without the GWF feat, unless the fight goes on for a very long time, the 2H approach is still pretty attractive. IMO, GWF needs its own Q&A when this player gets to 4th level.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago














9












9








9





$begingroup$

Two-handed weapons are not useless: bonus action and TWF



The two weapon fighting that a barbarian can use is not the same as the Fighter/Ranger fighting style option "Two-Weapon Fighting." Only that class feature allows the Fighter/Ranger to add their Ability Score Modifier to the second weapon's damage.



Each successful attack (using Strength) gets the Rage damage bonus



Assume a barbarian with a Strength of 16. (+3 damage modifier)



The Two-Weapon Fighting rule (Chapter 9) states:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon
that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack
with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other
hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus
attack, unless that modifier is negative
.




The Barbarian has to use a bonus action to trigger their Rage (PHB, Chapter 3):




In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter
a rage as a bonus action. snip
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.




Let's see how a three round battle will go.



  1. Round 1, trigger rage and one 2H weapon attack, or, one hand axe attack plus rage.

  2. Round 2. One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

  3. Round 3, One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

Damage comparison



Two-handed sword versus two hand axes: damage if we presume that all attacks hit



  1. Round 1: 2d6 + rage + STR (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + rage Str mod. (1d6+5)

    Advantage 2H weapon.


  2. Round 2: 2d6 + rage + Str (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + 1d6 + rage + rage +
    str mod (only on first blow) (2d6 +7)

    Total after two rounds is: WH 4d6 + 6 + 4 (24) vs 3d6 + 6 + 6 (22.5) Slight lead to 2H weapon



  3. Round 3: Same as round two, but now TWF takes a slight lead, since:



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d6 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 36.5)



Note: you gotta hit it to damage it.



An advantage accrues to the TWF approach if the fight lasts that long due to having more chances to hit. There are two chances to hit on the second and third rounds, whereas with the 2H weapon, there is only one chance to hit on each turn. You'll have a total of 5 attack rolls, rather than 3 attack rolls, if the dwarf goes with the two hand axes.



For what it's worth...



If the Barbarian takes the Dual Wielder Feat at level 4, they can use 1d8 damage dealing warhammers, battle axes, or long swords. The longer the battle goes on, the more two weapon fighting approach looks to be more advantageous. But, after level 5 where the Barbarian gets two attacks, this changes things enough that you may see the 2H weapon being a good or better choice.




  • We have a number of Q&As that compare TWF with 2H-weapons that go
    into far more detail about that. Since you are dealing with a
    beginner that's not germane for this question. If she gets to level 4 and considers that feat, I suggest you drop a question here to ask about the pros and cons of the Dual Wielder Feat for a Barbarian versus fighting with two-handed weapons.



    The same three round fight with the dual wielder feat, at level 4, using battle axes (1d8) as one handed weapons, yields this result after three rounds



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d8 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 41.5)
    Round 1 is still "advantage 2H weapon" and round 2 is roughly a tie.



    This looks to be a little more attractive, except during the first round, and the 5 versus 3 attack rolls means that there will be fewer misses. Each miss by the 2H weapon is a bigger loss of damage to the target.



Things change at 5th level for most martial characters



The 2H weapon barbarian gets another spike in attractiveness at level 5, so early rounds tend to favor the two handed weapon.



The Two Handed Weapon Barbarian gets two attacks. TWF gets three on rounds 2 and subsequent, using the bonus action. Damage summary:



Round 1: 4d6+2Str+2Rage 2H vs 2d8+ 2Str + 2 Rage for TWF
Round 2: 4d6+2STR+2Rage vs 3d8+ 2Str + 3 Rage
(All subsequent rounds are per Round )



The fight has to go on for a bit longer than two rounds for the TWF to begin to show advantages.



If the Dwarf does not take a feat, but instead boosts Strength to 18 at level 4, all attacks hit more often, all attacks get another damage point boost from strength, and the 2H weapon approach begins to look more attractive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Two-handed weapons are not useless: bonus action and TWF



The two weapon fighting that a barbarian can use is not the same as the Fighter/Ranger fighting style option "Two-Weapon Fighting." Only that class feature allows the Fighter/Ranger to add their Ability Score Modifier to the second weapon's damage.



Each successful attack (using Strength) gets the Rage damage bonus



Assume a barbarian with a Strength of 16. (+3 damage modifier)



The Two-Weapon Fighting rule (Chapter 9) states:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon
that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack
with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other
hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus
attack, unless that modifier is negative
.




The Barbarian has to use a bonus action to trigger their Rage (PHB, Chapter 3):




In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter
a rage as a bonus action. snip
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.




Let's see how a three round battle will go.



  1. Round 1, trigger rage and one 2H weapon attack, or, one hand axe attack plus rage.

  2. Round 2. One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

  3. Round 3, One attack with 2H weapon, two attacks with two weapons, STR bonus damage on only one

Damage comparison



Two-handed sword versus two hand axes: damage if we presume that all attacks hit



  1. Round 1: 2d6 + rage + STR (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + rage Str mod. (1d6+5)

    Advantage 2H weapon.


  2. Round 2: 2d6 + rage + Str (2d6+5) versus 1d6 + 1d6 + rage + rage +
    str mod (only on first blow) (2d6 +7)

    Total after two rounds is: WH 4d6 + 6 + 4 (24) vs 3d6 + 6 + 6 (22.5) Slight lead to 2H weapon



  3. Round 3: Same as round two, but now TWF takes a slight lead, since:



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d6 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 36.5)



Note: you gotta hit it to damage it.



An advantage accrues to the TWF approach if the fight lasts that long due to having more chances to hit. There are two chances to hit on the second and third rounds, whereas with the 2H weapon, there is only one chance to hit on each turn. You'll have a total of 5 attack rolls, rather than 3 attack rolls, if the dwarf goes with the two hand axes.



For what it's worth...



If the Barbarian takes the Dual Wielder Feat at level 4, they can use 1d8 damage dealing warhammers, battle axes, or long swords. The longer the battle goes on, the more two weapon fighting approach looks to be more advantageous. But, after level 5 where the Barbarian gets two attacks, this changes things enough that you may see the 2H weapon being a good or better choice.




  • We have a number of Q&As that compare TWF with 2H-weapons that go
    into far more detail about that. Since you are dealing with a
    beginner that's not germane for this question. If she gets to level 4 and considers that feat, I suggest you drop a question here to ask about the pros and cons of the Dual Wielder Feat for a Barbarian versus fighting with two-handed weapons.



    The same three round fight with the dual wielder feat, at level 4, using battle axes (1d8) as one handed weapons, yields this result after three rounds



    All told, we see 6d6 + 15 from the 2H weapon. (Average 36)

    All told, we see 5d8 + 19 from the TWF choice. (Average 41.5)
    Round 1 is still "advantage 2H weapon" and round 2 is roughly a tie.



    This looks to be a little more attractive, except during the first round, and the 5 versus 3 attack rolls means that there will be fewer misses. Each miss by the 2H weapon is a bigger loss of damage to the target.



Things change at 5th level for most martial characters



The 2H weapon barbarian gets another spike in attractiveness at level 5, so early rounds tend to favor the two handed weapon.



The Two Handed Weapon Barbarian gets two attacks. TWF gets three on rounds 2 and subsequent, using the bonus action. Damage summary:



Round 1: 4d6+2Str+2Rage 2H vs 2d8+ 2Str + 2 Rage for TWF
Round 2: 4d6+2STR+2Rage vs 3d8+ 2Str + 3 Rage
(All subsequent rounds are per Round )



The fight has to go on for a bit longer than two rounds for the TWF to begin to show advantages.



If the Dwarf does not take a feat, but instead boosts Strength to 18 at level 4, all attacks hit more often, all attacks get another damage point boost from strength, and the 2H weapon approach begins to look more attractive.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 20 mins ago









V2Blast

33k5 gold badges118 silver badges204 bronze badges




33k5 gold badges118 silver badges204 bronze badges










answered 15 hours ago









KorvinStarmastKorvinStarmast

92.4k22 gold badges305 silver badges495 bronze badges




92.4k22 gold badges305 silver badges495 bronze badges










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The "for what it's worth" leaves out that (a) the Barbarian that didnt' take Dal Wielder could instead take +2Str, and (b) both Barbarians get two base attacks per round starting at level 5 (one level later) both of those push the math in favor of the two-handed weapon (...and in a way that's not entirely predictable, given taht the strength bonus results in a bonus to hit)
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden The question is from a beginning DM with beginning players. I mention that bit that "it gets more complicated at level 5" and I've edited it. I agree with your points, I just think they are beyond scope for this answer, and maybe the "FWIW" is extraneous. Naur Arch had asked the other answer about Dual Weapon feat ... so I bit on that. 8^D
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    13 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    You’re considering the TWF feat and not the Great Weapon Fighting feat?
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @nick012000 Because I don't want to get into the +10/-5 fiddly bits, because this is a beginner DM and a beginer player, and the focus of the question is on Two Weapon Fighting. This answer is long enough already. Even without the GWF feat, unless the fight goes on for a very long time, the 2H approach is still pretty attractive. IMO, GWF needs its own Q&A when this player gets to 4th level.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago













  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The "for what it's worth" leaves out that (a) the Barbarian that didnt' take Dal Wielder could instead take +2Str, and (b) both Barbarians get two base attacks per round starting at level 5 (one level later) both of those push the math in favor of the two-handed weapon (...and in a way that's not entirely predictable, given taht the strength bonus results in a bonus to hit)
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden The question is from a beginning DM with beginning players. I mention that bit that "it gets more complicated at level 5" and I've edited it. I agree with your points, I just think they are beyond scope for this answer, and maybe the "FWIW" is extraneous. Naur Arch had asked the other answer about Dual Weapon feat ... so I bit on that. 8^D
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    13 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    You’re considering the TWF feat and not the Great Weapon Fighting feat?
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @nick012000 Because I don't want to get into the +10/-5 fiddly bits, because this is a beginner DM and a beginer player, and the focus of the question is on Two Weapon Fighting. This answer is long enough already. Even without the GWF feat, unless the fight goes on for a very long time, the 2H approach is still pretty attractive. IMO, GWF needs its own Q&A when this player gets to 4th level.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    7 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
The "for what it's worth" leaves out that (a) the Barbarian that didnt' take Dal Wielder could instead take +2Str, and (b) both Barbarians get two base attacks per round starting at level 5 (one level later) both of those push the math in favor of the two-handed weapon (...and in a way that's not entirely predictable, given taht the strength bonus results in a bonus to hit)
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
The "for what it's worth" leaves out that (a) the Barbarian that didnt' take Dal Wielder could instead take +2Str, and (b) both Barbarians get two base attacks per round starting at level 5 (one level later) both of those push the math in favor of the two-handed weapon (...and in a way that's not entirely predictable, given taht the strength bonus results in a bonus to hit)
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
14 hours ago












$begingroup$
@BenBarden The question is from a beginning DM with beginning players. I mention that bit that "it gets more complicated at level 5" and I've edited it. I agree with your points, I just think they are beyond scope for this answer, and maybe the "FWIW" is extraneous. Naur Arch had asked the other answer about Dual Weapon feat ... so I bit on that. 8^D
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
13 hours ago





$begingroup$
@BenBarden The question is from a beginning DM with beginning players. I mention that bit that "it gets more complicated at level 5" and I've edited it. I agree with your points, I just think they are beyond scope for this answer, and maybe the "FWIW" is extraneous. Naur Arch had asked the other answer about Dual Weapon feat ... so I bit on that. 8^D
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
13 hours ago













$begingroup$
You’re considering the TWF feat and not the Great Weapon Fighting feat?
$endgroup$
– nick012000
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
You’re considering the TWF feat and not the Great Weapon Fighting feat?
$endgroup$
– nick012000
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
@nick012000 Because I don't want to get into the +10/-5 fiddly bits, because this is a beginner DM and a beginer player, and the focus of the question is on Two Weapon Fighting. This answer is long enough already. Even without the GWF feat, unless the fight goes on for a very long time, the 2H approach is still pretty attractive. IMO, GWF needs its own Q&A when this player gets to 4th level.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago





$begingroup$
@nick012000 Because I don't want to get into the +10/-5 fiddly bits, because this is a beginner DM and a beginer player, and the focus of the question is on Two Weapon Fighting. This answer is long enough already. Even without the GWF feat, unless the fight goes on for a very long time, the 2H approach is still pretty attractive. IMO, GWF needs its own Q&A when this player gets to 4th level.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
7 hours ago














6












$begingroup$

The rage bonus is added to all your melee weapon attacks that use Strength



However, you do have your damage calculations wrong, as I'm not sure where you are getting a "Mastery bonus" from.



The attack with a greataxe (or any single weapon) would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier




See Damage rules where it says:




When attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifier--the same modifier used for the attack roll--to the damage.




Nothing else is added by virtue of the basic rules.



If you are raging then you add your rage bonus, so the full damage would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier + Rage bonus.




Two weapon fighting



See the rules here. To quote:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.




The emphasis is mine. So if you qualify for two weapon fighting (using light melee weapons), then your bonus attack would just be:




Weapon damage die + rage bonus (no strength mod)




Note - There is a 'fighting style' - an option for fighters and some other classes - that allow you to add your modifier to the damage of your bonus attack. But this is not accessible to a (single-classed) barbarian.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    @Miniman: Yep - got confused. Correcting now
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning that TWF and Raging both use bonus action - so can't be done on the same turn as you start raging?
    $endgroup$
    – Tiggerous
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning how adding the Dual Wielder Feat may change things?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ thanks for pointing out that I written bonus for hit roll instead of damage roll, I edited it. And good catch for bonus action, didn't though about it and it looks more balanced to me now.
    $endgroup$
    – Zoma
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since the question has been edited to correct the incorrect phrasing, you may want to update your answer accordingly.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    19 mins ago
















6












$begingroup$

The rage bonus is added to all your melee weapon attacks that use Strength



However, you do have your damage calculations wrong, as I'm not sure where you are getting a "Mastery bonus" from.



The attack with a greataxe (or any single weapon) would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier




See Damage rules where it says:




When attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifier--the same modifier used for the attack roll--to the damage.




Nothing else is added by virtue of the basic rules.



If you are raging then you add your rage bonus, so the full damage would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier + Rage bonus.




Two weapon fighting



See the rules here. To quote:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.




The emphasis is mine. So if you qualify for two weapon fighting (using light melee weapons), then your bonus attack would just be:




Weapon damage die + rage bonus (no strength mod)




Note - There is a 'fighting style' - an option for fighters and some other classes - that allow you to add your modifier to the damage of your bonus attack. But this is not accessible to a (single-classed) barbarian.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    @Miniman: Yep - got confused. Correcting now
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning that TWF and Raging both use bonus action - so can't be done on the same turn as you start raging?
    $endgroup$
    – Tiggerous
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning how adding the Dual Wielder Feat may change things?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ thanks for pointing out that I written bonus for hit roll instead of damage roll, I edited it. And good catch for bonus action, didn't though about it and it looks more balanced to me now.
    $endgroup$
    – Zoma
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since the question has been edited to correct the incorrect phrasing, you may want to update your answer accordingly.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    19 mins ago














6












6








6





$begingroup$

The rage bonus is added to all your melee weapon attacks that use Strength



However, you do have your damage calculations wrong, as I'm not sure where you are getting a "Mastery bonus" from.



The attack with a greataxe (or any single weapon) would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier




See Damage rules where it says:




When attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifier--the same modifier used for the attack roll--to the damage.




Nothing else is added by virtue of the basic rules.



If you are raging then you add your rage bonus, so the full damage would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier + Rage bonus.




Two weapon fighting



See the rules here. To quote:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.




The emphasis is mine. So if you qualify for two weapon fighting (using light melee weapons), then your bonus attack would just be:




Weapon damage die + rage bonus (no strength mod)




Note - There is a 'fighting style' - an option for fighters and some other classes - that allow you to add your modifier to the damage of your bonus attack. But this is not accessible to a (single-classed) barbarian.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



The rage bonus is added to all your melee weapon attacks that use Strength



However, you do have your damage calculations wrong, as I'm not sure where you are getting a "Mastery bonus" from.



The attack with a greataxe (or any single weapon) would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier




See Damage rules where it says:




When attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifier--the same modifier used for the attack roll--to the damage.




Nothing else is added by virtue of the basic rules.



If you are raging then you add your rage bonus, so the full damage would be:




Weapon damage die + Strength modifier + Rage bonus.




Two weapon fighting



See the rules here. To quote:




When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.




The emphasis is mine. So if you qualify for two weapon fighting (using light melee weapons), then your bonus attack would just be:




Weapon damage die + rage bonus (no strength mod)




Note - There is a 'fighting style' - an option for fighters and some other classes - that allow you to add your modifier to the damage of your bonus attack. But this is not accessible to a (single-classed) barbarian.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 15 hours ago

























answered 15 hours ago









PJRZPJRZ

14.7k1 gold badge48 silver badges70 bronze badges




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  • $begingroup$
    @Miniman: Yep - got confused. Correcting now
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning that TWF and Raging both use bonus action - so can't be done on the same turn as you start raging?
    $endgroup$
    – Tiggerous
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning how adding the Dual Wielder Feat may change things?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ thanks for pointing out that I written bonus for hit roll instead of damage roll, I edited it. And good catch for bonus action, didn't though about it and it looks more balanced to me now.
    $endgroup$
    – Zoma
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since the question has been edited to correct the incorrect phrasing, you may want to update your answer accordingly.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    19 mins ago

















  • $begingroup$
    @Miniman: Yep - got confused. Correcting now
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning that TWF and Raging both use bonus action - so can't be done on the same turn as you start raging?
    $endgroup$
    – Tiggerous
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth mentioning how adding the Dual Wielder Feat may change things?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ thanks for pointing out that I written bonus for hit roll instead of damage roll, I edited it. And good catch for bonus action, didn't though about it and it looks more balanced to me now.
    $endgroup$
    – Zoma
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since the question has been edited to correct the incorrect phrasing, you may want to update your answer accordingly.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    19 mins ago
















$begingroup$
@Miniman: Yep - got confused. Correcting now
$endgroup$
– PJRZ
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Miniman: Yep - got confused. Correcting now
$endgroup$
– PJRZ
15 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Worth mentioning that TWF and Raging both use bonus action - so can't be done on the same turn as you start raging?
$endgroup$
– Tiggerous
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
Worth mentioning that TWF and Raging both use bonus action - so can't be done on the same turn as you start raging?
$endgroup$
– Tiggerous
15 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Worth mentioning how adding the Dual Wielder Feat may change things?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
Worth mentioning how adding the Dual Wielder Feat may change things?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
15 hours ago












$begingroup$
@PJRZ thanks for pointing out that I written bonus for hit roll instead of damage roll, I edited it. And good catch for bonus action, didn't though about it and it looks more balanced to me now.
$endgroup$
– Zoma
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
@PJRZ thanks for pointing out that I written bonus for hit roll instead of damage roll, I edited it. And good catch for bonus action, didn't though about it and it looks more balanced to me now.
$endgroup$
– Zoma
15 hours ago












$begingroup$
Since the question has been edited to correct the incorrect phrasing, you may want to update your answer accordingly.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
19 mins ago





$begingroup$
Since the question has been edited to correct the incorrect phrasing, you may want to update your answer accordingly.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
19 mins ago


















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