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Box of tablets, whole or broken: solution required


Sliding Bolt Puzzle - fastest solution (time-wise)Help understanding the solution to a “shooting puzzle”Jewels in the boxCookie Box Mix-upThe Fanatic Fever(twist on the 5 pirates puzzle)Optimal solution to a modified poker gameNo broken eggs puzzleA Crucial DeliveryNo spanish required






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








7












$begingroup$


This is a puzzle that I thought up whilst taking a course of meds. I currently haven’t solved it, and would be curious to know if anyone has a solution for it. Here goes:



Scenario:
John has a box of 15 tablets. He needs to take half a tablet per day for 30 days. Each day he takes the box and removes a tablet perfectly randomly. If the tablet is a whole one, he breaks it in half, eats one half, and returns the other half back to the box. If he removes a half tablet, he just consumes it. This continues for 30 days.



Question: On which day (on average, assuming infinite re-runs of the process) is he first going to be equally/more likely to remove a half tablet than a whole one?



I already have given this some thought, but even counting the number of permutations is impossible for me extrapolation from a 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 tablet simplification of the 15 tablet scenario above.



Any ideas/solutions welcome. Preferably the solutions would be hidden in a spoiler box, as for the time being I’m still trying to work it out myself.



Many thanks!










share|improve this question







New contributor



David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Puzzling! (Take the Tour!) I'm glad you’re interested in contributing this question here but I fear it likely falls on the wrong side of our policy on math problems vs puzzles — see Are math-textbook-style problems on topic? for some discussion. It’s an interesting question to want an answer to, but probably not enough on-topic to be here.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rubio IMO this is on the fence, but I think it should be ok. It's definitely not a textbook question for sure, and I do find it quite an interesting problem. So, I personally have no problem with this question, but I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 The solution path is mechanical, the answer is pretty much what I'd expect, and there's no particular magic about the answer—those are pretty much the hallmarks of "problem". Having said that, I (like you) am on the fence enough that I feel I need to leave it up to the community to decide. :)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    3 hours ago

















7












$begingroup$


This is a puzzle that I thought up whilst taking a course of meds. I currently haven’t solved it, and would be curious to know if anyone has a solution for it. Here goes:



Scenario:
John has a box of 15 tablets. He needs to take half a tablet per day for 30 days. Each day he takes the box and removes a tablet perfectly randomly. If the tablet is a whole one, he breaks it in half, eats one half, and returns the other half back to the box. If he removes a half tablet, he just consumes it. This continues for 30 days.



Question: On which day (on average, assuming infinite re-runs of the process) is he first going to be equally/more likely to remove a half tablet than a whole one?



I already have given this some thought, but even counting the number of permutations is impossible for me extrapolation from a 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 tablet simplification of the 15 tablet scenario above.



Any ideas/solutions welcome. Preferably the solutions would be hidden in a spoiler box, as for the time being I’m still trying to work it out myself.



Many thanks!










share|improve this question







New contributor



David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Puzzling! (Take the Tour!) I'm glad you’re interested in contributing this question here but I fear it likely falls on the wrong side of our policy on math problems vs puzzles — see Are math-textbook-style problems on topic? for some discussion. It’s an interesting question to want an answer to, but probably not enough on-topic to be here.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rubio IMO this is on the fence, but I think it should be ok. It's definitely not a textbook question for sure, and I do find it quite an interesting problem. So, I personally have no problem with this question, but I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 The solution path is mechanical, the answer is pretty much what I'd expect, and there's no particular magic about the answer—those are pretty much the hallmarks of "problem". Having said that, I (like you) am on the fence enough that I feel I need to leave it up to the community to decide. :)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    3 hours ago













7












7








7





$begingroup$


This is a puzzle that I thought up whilst taking a course of meds. I currently haven’t solved it, and would be curious to know if anyone has a solution for it. Here goes:



Scenario:
John has a box of 15 tablets. He needs to take half a tablet per day for 30 days. Each day he takes the box and removes a tablet perfectly randomly. If the tablet is a whole one, he breaks it in half, eats one half, and returns the other half back to the box. If he removes a half tablet, he just consumes it. This continues for 30 days.



Question: On which day (on average, assuming infinite re-runs of the process) is he first going to be equally/more likely to remove a half tablet than a whole one?



I already have given this some thought, but even counting the number of permutations is impossible for me extrapolation from a 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 tablet simplification of the 15 tablet scenario above.



Any ideas/solutions welcome. Preferably the solutions would be hidden in a spoiler box, as for the time being I’m still trying to work it out myself.



Many thanks!










share|improve this question







New contributor



David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




This is a puzzle that I thought up whilst taking a course of meds. I currently haven’t solved it, and would be curious to know if anyone has a solution for it. Here goes:



Scenario:
John has a box of 15 tablets. He needs to take half a tablet per day for 30 days. Each day he takes the box and removes a tablet perfectly randomly. If the tablet is a whole one, he breaks it in half, eats one half, and returns the other half back to the box. If he removes a half tablet, he just consumes it. This continues for 30 days.



Question: On which day (on average, assuming infinite re-runs of the process) is he first going to be equally/more likely to remove a half tablet than a whole one?



I already have given this some thought, but even counting the number of permutations is impossible for me extrapolation from a 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 tablet simplification of the 15 tablet scenario above.



Any ideas/solutions welcome. Preferably the solutions would be hidden in a spoiler box, as for the time being I’m still trying to work it out myself.



Many thanks!







mathematics probability number-theory






share|improve this question







New contributor



David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question







New contributor



David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor



David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 8 hours ago









DavidDavid

361 bronze badge




361 bronze badge




New contributor



David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




David is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Puzzling! (Take the Tour!) I'm glad you’re interested in contributing this question here but I fear it likely falls on the wrong side of our policy on math problems vs puzzles — see Are math-textbook-style problems on topic? for some discussion. It’s an interesting question to want an answer to, but probably not enough on-topic to be here.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rubio IMO this is on the fence, but I think it should be ok. It's definitely not a textbook question for sure, and I do find it quite an interesting problem. So, I personally have no problem with this question, but I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 The solution path is mechanical, the answer is pretty much what I'd expect, and there's no particular magic about the answer—those are pretty much the hallmarks of "problem". Having said that, I (like you) am on the fence enough that I feel I need to leave it up to the community to decide. :)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    3 hours ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Puzzling! (Take the Tour!) I'm glad you’re interested in contributing this question here but I fear it likely falls on the wrong side of our policy on math problems vs puzzles — see Are math-textbook-style problems on topic? for some discussion. It’s an interesting question to want an answer to, but probably not enough on-topic to be here.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rubio IMO this is on the fence, but I think it should be ok. It's definitely not a textbook question for sure, and I do find it quite an interesting problem. So, I personally have no problem with this question, but I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 The solution path is mechanical, the answer is pretty much what I'd expect, and there's no particular magic about the answer—those are pretty much the hallmarks of "problem". Having said that, I (like you) am on the fence enough that I feel I need to leave it up to the community to decide. :)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    3 hours ago







1




1




$begingroup$
Welcome to Puzzling! (Take the Tour!) I'm glad you’re interested in contributing this question here but I fear it likely falls on the wrong side of our policy on math problems vs puzzles — see Are math-textbook-style problems on topic? for some discussion. It’s an interesting question to want an answer to, but probably not enough on-topic to be here.
$endgroup$
– Rubio
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Welcome to Puzzling! (Take the Tour!) I'm glad you’re interested in contributing this question here but I fear it likely falls on the wrong side of our policy on math problems vs puzzles — see Are math-textbook-style problems on topic? for some discussion. It’s an interesting question to want an answer to, but probably not enough on-topic to be here.
$endgroup$
– Rubio
6 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@Rubio IMO this is on the fence, but I think it should be ok. It's definitely not a textbook question for sure, and I do find it quite an interesting problem. So, I personally have no problem with this question, but I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.
$endgroup$
– greenturtle3141
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Rubio IMO this is on the fence, but I think it should be ok. It's definitely not a textbook question for sure, and I do find it quite an interesting problem. So, I personally have no problem with this question, but I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.
$endgroup$
– greenturtle3141
4 hours ago












$begingroup$
@greenturtle3141 The solution path is mechanical, the answer is pretty much what I'd expect, and there's no particular magic about the answer—those are pretty much the hallmarks of "problem". Having said that, I (like you) am on the fence enough that I feel I need to leave it up to the community to decide. :)
$endgroup$
– Rubio
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
@greenturtle3141 The solution path is mechanical, the answer is pretty much what I'd expect, and there's no particular magic about the answer—those are pretty much the hallmarks of "problem". Having said that, I (like you) am on the fence enough that I feel I need to leave it up to the community to decide. :)
$endgroup$
– Rubio
3 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$


It turns out that on the 14th (edited from 13th - I was using zero index before) day, you are more likely to pick a half pill than a whole pill. On that day, the expected number of whole pills is ~5.597 and the expected number of half pills is ~5.807.




To do this,




I just wrote a Python program that enumerates all the possible outcomes each day, along with the probability that each outcome would occur. To compute tomorrow's possible outcomes, you take each possible situation S from today and check each "branch" that can happen - selecting a whole or half pill. Each branch has a probability of occurring (based on how many of each are in S), and a resulting situation (one less half pill, or one less whole pill and one more half pill). You multiply the probability of being in S by the probability of taking the branch, and add that to tomorrow's probability for S', the new situation that we just created.




Finally,




For each day, you can compute the expected number of whole pills (just multiply the number of whole pills in each situation by the probability of the situation). The total expected whole pills for the day will be the sum of all of these values. The same can be done for the half pills (and if you want to check your work, 2*expected_whole + expected_half should equal (30 - day), since that's how many total half-pills you still have left).




I can give you the Python code if you want. Not sure it can be spoilered (I've never learned how to have multi-line spoilers).



Python Code






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$










  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Rather than post code here, you should probably post it at (say) tio.run and link to it here - that way people can run it without having to download it and/or a python interpreter.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    6 hours ago













Your Answer








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1 Answer
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active

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votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes









3












$begingroup$


It turns out that on the 14th (edited from 13th - I was using zero index before) day, you are more likely to pick a half pill than a whole pill. On that day, the expected number of whole pills is ~5.597 and the expected number of half pills is ~5.807.




To do this,




I just wrote a Python program that enumerates all the possible outcomes each day, along with the probability that each outcome would occur. To compute tomorrow's possible outcomes, you take each possible situation S from today and check each "branch" that can happen - selecting a whole or half pill. Each branch has a probability of occurring (based on how many of each are in S), and a resulting situation (one less half pill, or one less whole pill and one more half pill). You multiply the probability of being in S by the probability of taking the branch, and add that to tomorrow's probability for S', the new situation that we just created.




Finally,




For each day, you can compute the expected number of whole pills (just multiply the number of whole pills in each situation by the probability of the situation). The total expected whole pills for the day will be the sum of all of these values. The same can be done for the half pills (and if you want to check your work, 2*expected_whole + expected_half should equal (30 - day), since that's how many total half-pills you still have left).




I can give you the Python code if you want. Not sure it can be spoilered (I've never learned how to have multi-line spoilers).



Python Code






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$










  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Rather than post code here, you should probably post it at (say) tio.run and link to it here - that way people can run it without having to download it and/or a python interpreter.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    6 hours ago















3












$begingroup$


It turns out that on the 14th (edited from 13th - I was using zero index before) day, you are more likely to pick a half pill than a whole pill. On that day, the expected number of whole pills is ~5.597 and the expected number of half pills is ~5.807.




To do this,




I just wrote a Python program that enumerates all the possible outcomes each day, along with the probability that each outcome would occur. To compute tomorrow's possible outcomes, you take each possible situation S from today and check each "branch" that can happen - selecting a whole or half pill. Each branch has a probability of occurring (based on how many of each are in S), and a resulting situation (one less half pill, or one less whole pill and one more half pill). You multiply the probability of being in S by the probability of taking the branch, and add that to tomorrow's probability for S', the new situation that we just created.




Finally,




For each day, you can compute the expected number of whole pills (just multiply the number of whole pills in each situation by the probability of the situation). The total expected whole pills for the day will be the sum of all of these values. The same can be done for the half pills (and if you want to check your work, 2*expected_whole + expected_half should equal (30 - day), since that's how many total half-pills you still have left).




I can give you the Python code if you want. Not sure it can be spoilered (I've never learned how to have multi-line spoilers).



Python Code






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$










  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Rather than post code here, you should probably post it at (say) tio.run and link to it here - that way people can run it without having to download it and/or a python interpreter.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    6 hours ago













3












3








3





$begingroup$


It turns out that on the 14th (edited from 13th - I was using zero index before) day, you are more likely to pick a half pill than a whole pill. On that day, the expected number of whole pills is ~5.597 and the expected number of half pills is ~5.807.




To do this,




I just wrote a Python program that enumerates all the possible outcomes each day, along with the probability that each outcome would occur. To compute tomorrow's possible outcomes, you take each possible situation S from today and check each "branch" that can happen - selecting a whole or half pill. Each branch has a probability of occurring (based on how many of each are in S), and a resulting situation (one less half pill, or one less whole pill and one more half pill). You multiply the probability of being in S by the probability of taking the branch, and add that to tomorrow's probability for S', the new situation that we just created.




Finally,




For each day, you can compute the expected number of whole pills (just multiply the number of whole pills in each situation by the probability of the situation). The total expected whole pills for the day will be the sum of all of these values. The same can be done for the half pills (and if you want to check your work, 2*expected_whole + expected_half should equal (30 - day), since that's how many total half-pills you still have left).




I can give you the Python code if you want. Not sure it can be spoilered (I've never learned how to have multi-line spoilers).



Python Code






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$




It turns out that on the 14th (edited from 13th - I was using zero index before) day, you are more likely to pick a half pill than a whole pill. On that day, the expected number of whole pills is ~5.597 and the expected number of half pills is ~5.807.




To do this,




I just wrote a Python program that enumerates all the possible outcomes each day, along with the probability that each outcome would occur. To compute tomorrow's possible outcomes, you take each possible situation S from today and check each "branch" that can happen - selecting a whole or half pill. Each branch has a probability of occurring (based on how many of each are in S), and a resulting situation (one less half pill, or one less whole pill and one more half pill). You multiply the probability of being in S by the probability of taking the branch, and add that to tomorrow's probability for S', the new situation that we just created.




Finally,




For each day, you can compute the expected number of whole pills (just multiply the number of whole pills in each situation by the probability of the situation). The total expected whole pills for the day will be the sum of all of these values. The same can be done for the half pills (and if you want to check your work, 2*expected_whole + expected_half should equal (30 - day), since that's how many total half-pills you still have left).




I can give you the Python code if you want. Not sure it can be spoilered (I've never learned how to have multi-line spoilers).



Python Code







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 5 hours ago

























answered 7 hours ago









hdsdvhdsdv

3567 bronze badges




3567 bronze badges










  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Rather than post code here, you should probably post it at (say) tio.run and link to it here - that way people can run it without having to download it and/or a python interpreter.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    6 hours ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Rather than post code here, you should probably post it at (say) tio.run and link to it here - that way people can run it without having to download it and/or a python interpreter.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubio
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    6 hours ago







2




2




$begingroup$
Rather than post code here, you should probably post it at (say) tio.run and link to it here - that way people can run it without having to download it and/or a python interpreter.
$endgroup$
– Rubio
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Rather than post code here, you should probably post it at (say) tio.run and link to it here - that way people can run it without having to download it and/or a python interpreter.
$endgroup$
– Rubio
6 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
$endgroup$
– hdsdv
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thanks for the suggestion! Done.
$endgroup$
– hdsdv
6 hours ago










David is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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David is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












David is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











David is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














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