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What are the arguments for California’s nonpartisan blanket primaries other than giving Democrats more power?
Are there advantages to my being registered as an independent in the US?What are the US presidential primaries?Voting for Candidates in the PrimariesWhom are people voting for in US primaries?How exactly are the number of super delegates determined for the Democratic primaries?If at some point President Trump was impeached, what would it take to actually be removed?Are caucuses less democratic than primaries?Does the populist rise in Europe prove that intra-party democracy is not working?What are the Republicans' arguments for blaming the Democrats for the shutdown?Is this proposal by U.S. presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg to change the composition of the Supreme Court constitutional?
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California has a system where two candidates, chosen in a nonpartisan primary, are on the ballot in each congressional or statewide race.
This makes it so that some elections have two candidates from the same party; in 2016 seven congressional districts had two Democrats running against each other. The Senate race also had two Democrats. It seems really strange to make there be a chance of limiting the options for voters to one party.
What are the arguments in favor of this system other than increasing Democrats’ control?
united-states primaries california nonpartisan-blanket-primary
add a comment |
California has a system where two candidates, chosen in a nonpartisan primary, are on the ballot in each congressional or statewide race.
This makes it so that some elections have two candidates from the same party; in 2016 seven congressional districts had two Democrats running against each other. The Senate race also had two Democrats. It seems really strange to make there be a chance of limiting the options for voters to one party.
What are the arguments in favor of this system other than increasing Democrats’ control?
united-states primaries california nonpartisan-blanket-primary
5
I don't have a good answer at hand, but keep in mind that because the primary is non-partisan, the voters have limited themselves to one party, rather than it being imposed. I think you can think of it more as the "primary" being the real election, and the election day vote being the runoff between the top two winners.
– Bobson
8 hours ago
Are there any limitations on entry as a candidate or voting for these primaries?
– Jontia
8 hours ago
2
Major argument seems to be that the two most popular candidates are presented in the election. Since the primary is non-partisan, the selection of the winners should also be non-partisan.
– doneal24
7 hours ago
add a comment |
California has a system where two candidates, chosen in a nonpartisan primary, are on the ballot in each congressional or statewide race.
This makes it so that some elections have two candidates from the same party; in 2016 seven congressional districts had two Democrats running against each other. The Senate race also had two Democrats. It seems really strange to make there be a chance of limiting the options for voters to one party.
What are the arguments in favor of this system other than increasing Democrats’ control?
united-states primaries california nonpartisan-blanket-primary
California has a system where two candidates, chosen in a nonpartisan primary, are on the ballot in each congressional or statewide race.
This makes it so that some elections have two candidates from the same party; in 2016 seven congressional districts had two Democrats running against each other. The Senate race also had two Democrats. It seems really strange to make there be a chance of limiting the options for voters to one party.
What are the arguments in favor of this system other than increasing Democrats’ control?
united-states primaries california nonpartisan-blanket-primary
united-states primaries california nonpartisan-blanket-primary
edited 4 hours ago
Stormblessed
asked 8 hours ago
StormblessedStormblessed
8951 gold badge5 silver badges27 bronze badges
8951 gold badge5 silver badges27 bronze badges
5
I don't have a good answer at hand, but keep in mind that because the primary is non-partisan, the voters have limited themselves to one party, rather than it being imposed. I think you can think of it more as the "primary" being the real election, and the election day vote being the runoff between the top two winners.
– Bobson
8 hours ago
Are there any limitations on entry as a candidate or voting for these primaries?
– Jontia
8 hours ago
2
Major argument seems to be that the two most popular candidates are presented in the election. Since the primary is non-partisan, the selection of the winners should also be non-partisan.
– doneal24
7 hours ago
add a comment |
5
I don't have a good answer at hand, but keep in mind that because the primary is non-partisan, the voters have limited themselves to one party, rather than it being imposed. I think you can think of it more as the "primary" being the real election, and the election day vote being the runoff between the top two winners.
– Bobson
8 hours ago
Are there any limitations on entry as a candidate or voting for these primaries?
– Jontia
8 hours ago
2
Major argument seems to be that the two most popular candidates are presented in the election. Since the primary is non-partisan, the selection of the winners should also be non-partisan.
– doneal24
7 hours ago
5
5
I don't have a good answer at hand, but keep in mind that because the primary is non-partisan, the voters have limited themselves to one party, rather than it being imposed. I think you can think of it more as the "primary" being the real election, and the election day vote being the runoff between the top two winners.
– Bobson
8 hours ago
I don't have a good answer at hand, but keep in mind that because the primary is non-partisan, the voters have limited themselves to one party, rather than it being imposed. I think you can think of it more as the "primary" being the real election, and the election day vote being the runoff between the top two winners.
– Bobson
8 hours ago
Are there any limitations on entry as a candidate or voting for these primaries?
– Jontia
8 hours ago
Are there any limitations on entry as a candidate or voting for these primaries?
– Jontia
8 hours ago
2
2
Major argument seems to be that the two most popular candidates are presented in the election. Since the primary is non-partisan, the selection of the winners should also be non-partisan.
– doneal24
7 hours ago
Major argument seems to be that the two most popular candidates are presented in the election. Since the primary is non-partisan, the selection of the winners should also be non-partisan.
– doneal24
7 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Why nonpartisan blanket primaries
The seats where the Republicans do not have at least one candidate are generally the seats where the Republicans weren't going to win. Taking the example from the other answer, consider a seat where the Republicans only get 35% of the two party vote. The chances of that seat electing a Republican are minuscule. The last time I can recall something like that happening, the incumbent was caught with bribe money literally in his freezer a few weeks before the election. And his challenger still barely won.
With partisan primaries, the Republicans in such a district essentially have no reason to vote in the general election. They have a candidate, but the candidate has no chance. The actual winner is always the Democrat chosen by the Democratic primary.
With the non-partisan primaries, the Republicans can vote for the lesser of two evils. This encourages more moderate winners, as the general election generally has a more moderate electorate than either primary.
The biggest problem that I see with the California system is not that it keeps Republicans from winning. Overall, Republicans have been more likely to benefit from it than to lose as a result of it. Republicans have managed a couple times to run just two candidates who then beat (e.g.) five Democrats in a swing district in the primary. Then the Republicans were guaranteed a win. The biggest problem is that it allows the occasional goofball result like that.
To fix that, the primary should switch to ranked (IRV, Condorcet, etc.) or similar voting such that candidates don't split the vote. In most districts, that will lead to a Democrat and a Republican winning. In a few districts, that will lead to two Democrats and allow the more moderate one to win the general election.
Why Republicans don't win in California
Another problem with the California system is that its use of geographic districts means that the Democrats win more seats than their share of the vote. To fix that, they should switch to a proportional system, e.g. Schulze Single Transferable Vote. In a proportional system, the Republicans would have won something like eighteen to twenty-two seats rather than seven. We don't know the exact number because of districts where there were no Republican candidates. And of course, a proportional system would allow third parties to win some seats.
With geographic districts, many voters don't get representation of their choice. The more evenly divided the district the fewer voters get their preferred choice. In a proportional system virtually every vote counts. Voters may not always get their first choice, but they can choose how to compromise.
add a comment |
It would be a reasonable assumption that the Democratic controlled California legislature would have implemented this system in order to help elect more Democrats. There is little as consistent as politicians favoring changes that would benefit their political interests. However, both in California and Washington, the top-two system was put in place not by a vote of the legislature but by an initiative. It was, in fact, opposed by the political parties, major and minor. In Washington, the Republican, Democrat, and Libertarian parties went so far as to attempt to use legal action to prevent the system from coming into force. In California the groups favoring the top-two system included Chambers of Commerce and Republican ex-Governors, suggesting that they as it in the Republican interests. As such, it is not clear that the system is designed to favor Democratic interests.
Under the standard closed primary, many elections are effectively decided at the primary level. The general election is a foregone conclusion. As a consequence, everyone belonging to the minority party has no effective say in who is elected. They cannot influence the nominee of the majority party and their vote is largely ceremonial in the general election. Under top-two they do have a vote in the nomination process and in the general election can choose the least of two evils.
Under the standard closed primary, the winner does not necessarily the preferred candidate of the majority of the electorate. Consider the possibility of three candidates:
- A Democratic Socialist 39%
- A Centrist Democrat 26%
- A Republican 20%
- A Libertarian Republican 15%
Under a standard primary system, the Democratic Socialist wins the Democratic nomination, and then the general election. However, a majority of the voters would have preferred the Centrist democrat. Under the top two system, the two Democratic candidates proceed to the general election, but the centrist candidate wins because he gets the support of the two republican candidates.
Oh! That's interesting, I'd been starting to think it was only for increasing Democrat power, but that is nice that the minority party has more power if they are totally in no way going to have a chance of winning.
– Stormblessed
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Arguably the intention is to repress Republican candidates in Democrat - concentrated districts (and in state wide races).
By having an "open primary", the minority party is always disadvantaged because its already small percentage of the vote is further fractured by the primary vote (some Republicans vote for one candidate, others for another).
This gives the majority (Democrats in California) the advantage because although their vote is also split, since they have a larger voter base, the split votes still end up beating the Republican votes.
Hence how the districts end up with two Democrat candidates, which is what was intended to eliminate the possibility of a surprise Republican victory.
So, the argument in favor of such a system is to decrease the power of the minority party (which is something the majority party doubtless wants).
For example,
consider a district with 35% Republican voters, and 65% Democratic voters, each party running two primary candidates.
The Republican candidates split the republican vote 60% - 40% (21% and 14% of the at-large total). The Democrat candidates split the democrat vote 65% - 35% (42.25% and 22.75% of the at-large vote).
Now, even though the total Republican base is 35% and larger than the runner-up Democrat's total vote share, the whole Republican party is wiped out from contention.
But I don’t see an argument for it in this answer, just what happens and what I think is likely the intention.
– Stormblessed
5 hours ago
@Stormblessed the argument when proposing this rule in the Democrat-majority legislature would have been to achieve more electoral victories for their fellow majority-party members. Although there may have been some alternative window-dressing explanation offered, that was the intention.
– ThomasThomas
5 hours ago
I don't see how this is supposed to work. If 65% of the voters supported democrats, the democratic candidate was going to win regardless. So how does this do anything to prevent "surprise Republican victories?" The only way Republican could win is if face two democrats in the general election, but the Democrats aren't stupid, they won't run two candidates.
– Winston Ewert
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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active
oldest
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Why nonpartisan blanket primaries
The seats where the Republicans do not have at least one candidate are generally the seats where the Republicans weren't going to win. Taking the example from the other answer, consider a seat where the Republicans only get 35% of the two party vote. The chances of that seat electing a Republican are minuscule. The last time I can recall something like that happening, the incumbent was caught with bribe money literally in his freezer a few weeks before the election. And his challenger still barely won.
With partisan primaries, the Republicans in such a district essentially have no reason to vote in the general election. They have a candidate, but the candidate has no chance. The actual winner is always the Democrat chosen by the Democratic primary.
With the non-partisan primaries, the Republicans can vote for the lesser of two evils. This encourages more moderate winners, as the general election generally has a more moderate electorate than either primary.
The biggest problem that I see with the California system is not that it keeps Republicans from winning. Overall, Republicans have been more likely to benefit from it than to lose as a result of it. Republicans have managed a couple times to run just two candidates who then beat (e.g.) five Democrats in a swing district in the primary. Then the Republicans were guaranteed a win. The biggest problem is that it allows the occasional goofball result like that.
To fix that, the primary should switch to ranked (IRV, Condorcet, etc.) or similar voting such that candidates don't split the vote. In most districts, that will lead to a Democrat and a Republican winning. In a few districts, that will lead to two Democrats and allow the more moderate one to win the general election.
Why Republicans don't win in California
Another problem with the California system is that its use of geographic districts means that the Democrats win more seats than their share of the vote. To fix that, they should switch to a proportional system, e.g. Schulze Single Transferable Vote. In a proportional system, the Republicans would have won something like eighteen to twenty-two seats rather than seven. We don't know the exact number because of districts where there were no Republican candidates. And of course, a proportional system would allow third parties to win some seats.
With geographic districts, many voters don't get representation of their choice. The more evenly divided the district the fewer voters get their preferred choice. In a proportional system virtually every vote counts. Voters may not always get their first choice, but they can choose how to compromise.
add a comment |
Why nonpartisan blanket primaries
The seats where the Republicans do not have at least one candidate are generally the seats where the Republicans weren't going to win. Taking the example from the other answer, consider a seat where the Republicans only get 35% of the two party vote. The chances of that seat electing a Republican are minuscule. The last time I can recall something like that happening, the incumbent was caught with bribe money literally in his freezer a few weeks before the election. And his challenger still barely won.
With partisan primaries, the Republicans in such a district essentially have no reason to vote in the general election. They have a candidate, but the candidate has no chance. The actual winner is always the Democrat chosen by the Democratic primary.
With the non-partisan primaries, the Republicans can vote for the lesser of two evils. This encourages more moderate winners, as the general election generally has a more moderate electorate than either primary.
The biggest problem that I see with the California system is not that it keeps Republicans from winning. Overall, Republicans have been more likely to benefit from it than to lose as a result of it. Republicans have managed a couple times to run just two candidates who then beat (e.g.) five Democrats in a swing district in the primary. Then the Republicans were guaranteed a win. The biggest problem is that it allows the occasional goofball result like that.
To fix that, the primary should switch to ranked (IRV, Condorcet, etc.) or similar voting such that candidates don't split the vote. In most districts, that will lead to a Democrat and a Republican winning. In a few districts, that will lead to two Democrats and allow the more moderate one to win the general election.
Why Republicans don't win in California
Another problem with the California system is that its use of geographic districts means that the Democrats win more seats than their share of the vote. To fix that, they should switch to a proportional system, e.g. Schulze Single Transferable Vote. In a proportional system, the Republicans would have won something like eighteen to twenty-two seats rather than seven. We don't know the exact number because of districts where there were no Republican candidates. And of course, a proportional system would allow third parties to win some seats.
With geographic districts, many voters don't get representation of their choice. The more evenly divided the district the fewer voters get their preferred choice. In a proportional system virtually every vote counts. Voters may not always get their first choice, but they can choose how to compromise.
add a comment |
Why nonpartisan blanket primaries
The seats where the Republicans do not have at least one candidate are generally the seats where the Republicans weren't going to win. Taking the example from the other answer, consider a seat where the Republicans only get 35% of the two party vote. The chances of that seat electing a Republican are minuscule. The last time I can recall something like that happening, the incumbent was caught with bribe money literally in his freezer a few weeks before the election. And his challenger still barely won.
With partisan primaries, the Republicans in such a district essentially have no reason to vote in the general election. They have a candidate, but the candidate has no chance. The actual winner is always the Democrat chosen by the Democratic primary.
With the non-partisan primaries, the Republicans can vote for the lesser of two evils. This encourages more moderate winners, as the general election generally has a more moderate electorate than either primary.
The biggest problem that I see with the California system is not that it keeps Republicans from winning. Overall, Republicans have been more likely to benefit from it than to lose as a result of it. Republicans have managed a couple times to run just two candidates who then beat (e.g.) five Democrats in a swing district in the primary. Then the Republicans were guaranteed a win. The biggest problem is that it allows the occasional goofball result like that.
To fix that, the primary should switch to ranked (IRV, Condorcet, etc.) or similar voting such that candidates don't split the vote. In most districts, that will lead to a Democrat and a Republican winning. In a few districts, that will lead to two Democrats and allow the more moderate one to win the general election.
Why Republicans don't win in California
Another problem with the California system is that its use of geographic districts means that the Democrats win more seats than their share of the vote. To fix that, they should switch to a proportional system, e.g. Schulze Single Transferable Vote. In a proportional system, the Republicans would have won something like eighteen to twenty-two seats rather than seven. We don't know the exact number because of districts where there were no Republican candidates. And of course, a proportional system would allow third parties to win some seats.
With geographic districts, many voters don't get representation of their choice. The more evenly divided the district the fewer voters get their preferred choice. In a proportional system virtually every vote counts. Voters may not always get their first choice, but they can choose how to compromise.
Why nonpartisan blanket primaries
The seats where the Republicans do not have at least one candidate are generally the seats where the Republicans weren't going to win. Taking the example from the other answer, consider a seat where the Republicans only get 35% of the two party vote. The chances of that seat electing a Republican are minuscule. The last time I can recall something like that happening, the incumbent was caught with bribe money literally in his freezer a few weeks before the election. And his challenger still barely won.
With partisan primaries, the Republicans in such a district essentially have no reason to vote in the general election. They have a candidate, but the candidate has no chance. The actual winner is always the Democrat chosen by the Democratic primary.
With the non-partisan primaries, the Republicans can vote for the lesser of two evils. This encourages more moderate winners, as the general election generally has a more moderate electorate than either primary.
The biggest problem that I see with the California system is not that it keeps Republicans from winning. Overall, Republicans have been more likely to benefit from it than to lose as a result of it. Republicans have managed a couple times to run just two candidates who then beat (e.g.) five Democrats in a swing district in the primary. Then the Republicans were guaranteed a win. The biggest problem is that it allows the occasional goofball result like that.
To fix that, the primary should switch to ranked (IRV, Condorcet, etc.) or similar voting such that candidates don't split the vote. In most districts, that will lead to a Democrat and a Republican winning. In a few districts, that will lead to two Democrats and allow the more moderate one to win the general election.
Why Republicans don't win in California
Another problem with the California system is that its use of geographic districts means that the Democrats win more seats than their share of the vote. To fix that, they should switch to a proportional system, e.g. Schulze Single Transferable Vote. In a proportional system, the Republicans would have won something like eighteen to twenty-two seats rather than seven. We don't know the exact number because of districts where there were no Republican candidates. And of course, a proportional system would allow third parties to win some seats.
With geographic districts, many voters don't get representation of their choice. The more evenly divided the district the fewer voters get their preferred choice. In a proportional system virtually every vote counts. Voters may not always get their first choice, but they can choose how to compromise.
answered 4 hours ago
BrythanBrythan
77.2k8 gold badges167 silver badges264 bronze badges
77.2k8 gold badges167 silver badges264 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
It would be a reasonable assumption that the Democratic controlled California legislature would have implemented this system in order to help elect more Democrats. There is little as consistent as politicians favoring changes that would benefit their political interests. However, both in California and Washington, the top-two system was put in place not by a vote of the legislature but by an initiative. It was, in fact, opposed by the political parties, major and minor. In Washington, the Republican, Democrat, and Libertarian parties went so far as to attempt to use legal action to prevent the system from coming into force. In California the groups favoring the top-two system included Chambers of Commerce and Republican ex-Governors, suggesting that they as it in the Republican interests. As such, it is not clear that the system is designed to favor Democratic interests.
Under the standard closed primary, many elections are effectively decided at the primary level. The general election is a foregone conclusion. As a consequence, everyone belonging to the minority party has no effective say in who is elected. They cannot influence the nominee of the majority party and their vote is largely ceremonial in the general election. Under top-two they do have a vote in the nomination process and in the general election can choose the least of two evils.
Under the standard closed primary, the winner does not necessarily the preferred candidate of the majority of the electorate. Consider the possibility of three candidates:
- A Democratic Socialist 39%
- A Centrist Democrat 26%
- A Republican 20%
- A Libertarian Republican 15%
Under a standard primary system, the Democratic Socialist wins the Democratic nomination, and then the general election. However, a majority of the voters would have preferred the Centrist democrat. Under the top two system, the two Democratic candidates proceed to the general election, but the centrist candidate wins because he gets the support of the two republican candidates.
Oh! That's interesting, I'd been starting to think it was only for increasing Democrat power, but that is nice that the minority party has more power if they are totally in no way going to have a chance of winning.
– Stormblessed
1 hour ago
add a comment |
It would be a reasonable assumption that the Democratic controlled California legislature would have implemented this system in order to help elect more Democrats. There is little as consistent as politicians favoring changes that would benefit their political interests. However, both in California and Washington, the top-two system was put in place not by a vote of the legislature but by an initiative. It was, in fact, opposed by the political parties, major and minor. In Washington, the Republican, Democrat, and Libertarian parties went so far as to attempt to use legal action to prevent the system from coming into force. In California the groups favoring the top-two system included Chambers of Commerce and Republican ex-Governors, suggesting that they as it in the Republican interests. As such, it is not clear that the system is designed to favor Democratic interests.
Under the standard closed primary, many elections are effectively decided at the primary level. The general election is a foregone conclusion. As a consequence, everyone belonging to the minority party has no effective say in who is elected. They cannot influence the nominee of the majority party and their vote is largely ceremonial in the general election. Under top-two they do have a vote in the nomination process and in the general election can choose the least of two evils.
Under the standard closed primary, the winner does not necessarily the preferred candidate of the majority of the electorate. Consider the possibility of three candidates:
- A Democratic Socialist 39%
- A Centrist Democrat 26%
- A Republican 20%
- A Libertarian Republican 15%
Under a standard primary system, the Democratic Socialist wins the Democratic nomination, and then the general election. However, a majority of the voters would have preferred the Centrist democrat. Under the top two system, the two Democratic candidates proceed to the general election, but the centrist candidate wins because he gets the support of the two republican candidates.
Oh! That's interesting, I'd been starting to think it was only for increasing Democrat power, but that is nice that the minority party has more power if they are totally in no way going to have a chance of winning.
– Stormblessed
1 hour ago
add a comment |
It would be a reasonable assumption that the Democratic controlled California legislature would have implemented this system in order to help elect more Democrats. There is little as consistent as politicians favoring changes that would benefit their political interests. However, both in California and Washington, the top-two system was put in place not by a vote of the legislature but by an initiative. It was, in fact, opposed by the political parties, major and minor. In Washington, the Republican, Democrat, and Libertarian parties went so far as to attempt to use legal action to prevent the system from coming into force. In California the groups favoring the top-two system included Chambers of Commerce and Republican ex-Governors, suggesting that they as it in the Republican interests. As such, it is not clear that the system is designed to favor Democratic interests.
Under the standard closed primary, many elections are effectively decided at the primary level. The general election is a foregone conclusion. As a consequence, everyone belonging to the minority party has no effective say in who is elected. They cannot influence the nominee of the majority party and their vote is largely ceremonial in the general election. Under top-two they do have a vote in the nomination process and in the general election can choose the least of two evils.
Under the standard closed primary, the winner does not necessarily the preferred candidate of the majority of the electorate. Consider the possibility of three candidates:
- A Democratic Socialist 39%
- A Centrist Democrat 26%
- A Republican 20%
- A Libertarian Republican 15%
Under a standard primary system, the Democratic Socialist wins the Democratic nomination, and then the general election. However, a majority of the voters would have preferred the Centrist democrat. Under the top two system, the two Democratic candidates proceed to the general election, but the centrist candidate wins because he gets the support of the two republican candidates.
It would be a reasonable assumption that the Democratic controlled California legislature would have implemented this system in order to help elect more Democrats. There is little as consistent as politicians favoring changes that would benefit their political interests. However, both in California and Washington, the top-two system was put in place not by a vote of the legislature but by an initiative. It was, in fact, opposed by the political parties, major and minor. In Washington, the Republican, Democrat, and Libertarian parties went so far as to attempt to use legal action to prevent the system from coming into force. In California the groups favoring the top-two system included Chambers of Commerce and Republican ex-Governors, suggesting that they as it in the Republican interests. As such, it is not clear that the system is designed to favor Democratic interests.
Under the standard closed primary, many elections are effectively decided at the primary level. The general election is a foregone conclusion. As a consequence, everyone belonging to the minority party has no effective say in who is elected. They cannot influence the nominee of the majority party and their vote is largely ceremonial in the general election. Under top-two they do have a vote in the nomination process and in the general election can choose the least of two evils.
Under the standard closed primary, the winner does not necessarily the preferred candidate of the majority of the electorate. Consider the possibility of three candidates:
- A Democratic Socialist 39%
- A Centrist Democrat 26%
- A Republican 20%
- A Libertarian Republican 15%
Under a standard primary system, the Democratic Socialist wins the Democratic nomination, and then the general election. However, a majority of the voters would have preferred the Centrist democrat. Under the top two system, the two Democratic candidates proceed to the general election, but the centrist candidate wins because he gets the support of the two republican candidates.
answered 2 hours ago
Winston EwertWinston Ewert
2241 silver badge5 bronze badges
2241 silver badge5 bronze badges
Oh! That's interesting, I'd been starting to think it was only for increasing Democrat power, but that is nice that the minority party has more power if they are totally in no way going to have a chance of winning.
– Stormblessed
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Oh! That's interesting, I'd been starting to think it was only for increasing Democrat power, but that is nice that the minority party has more power if they are totally in no way going to have a chance of winning.
– Stormblessed
1 hour ago
Oh! That's interesting, I'd been starting to think it was only for increasing Democrat power, but that is nice that the minority party has more power if they are totally in no way going to have a chance of winning.
– Stormblessed
1 hour ago
Oh! That's interesting, I'd been starting to think it was only for increasing Democrat power, but that is nice that the minority party has more power if they are totally in no way going to have a chance of winning.
– Stormblessed
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Arguably the intention is to repress Republican candidates in Democrat - concentrated districts (and in state wide races).
By having an "open primary", the minority party is always disadvantaged because its already small percentage of the vote is further fractured by the primary vote (some Republicans vote for one candidate, others for another).
This gives the majority (Democrats in California) the advantage because although their vote is also split, since they have a larger voter base, the split votes still end up beating the Republican votes.
Hence how the districts end up with two Democrat candidates, which is what was intended to eliminate the possibility of a surprise Republican victory.
So, the argument in favor of such a system is to decrease the power of the minority party (which is something the majority party doubtless wants).
For example,
consider a district with 35% Republican voters, and 65% Democratic voters, each party running two primary candidates.
The Republican candidates split the republican vote 60% - 40% (21% and 14% of the at-large total). The Democrat candidates split the democrat vote 65% - 35% (42.25% and 22.75% of the at-large vote).
Now, even though the total Republican base is 35% and larger than the runner-up Democrat's total vote share, the whole Republican party is wiped out from contention.
But I don’t see an argument for it in this answer, just what happens and what I think is likely the intention.
– Stormblessed
5 hours ago
@Stormblessed the argument when proposing this rule in the Democrat-majority legislature would have been to achieve more electoral victories for their fellow majority-party members. Although there may have been some alternative window-dressing explanation offered, that was the intention.
– ThomasThomas
5 hours ago
I don't see how this is supposed to work. If 65% of the voters supported democrats, the democratic candidate was going to win regardless. So how does this do anything to prevent "surprise Republican victories?" The only way Republican could win is if face two democrats in the general election, but the Democrats aren't stupid, they won't run two candidates.
– Winston Ewert
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Arguably the intention is to repress Republican candidates in Democrat - concentrated districts (and in state wide races).
By having an "open primary", the minority party is always disadvantaged because its already small percentage of the vote is further fractured by the primary vote (some Republicans vote for one candidate, others for another).
This gives the majority (Democrats in California) the advantage because although their vote is also split, since they have a larger voter base, the split votes still end up beating the Republican votes.
Hence how the districts end up with two Democrat candidates, which is what was intended to eliminate the possibility of a surprise Republican victory.
So, the argument in favor of such a system is to decrease the power of the minority party (which is something the majority party doubtless wants).
For example,
consider a district with 35% Republican voters, and 65% Democratic voters, each party running two primary candidates.
The Republican candidates split the republican vote 60% - 40% (21% and 14% of the at-large total). The Democrat candidates split the democrat vote 65% - 35% (42.25% and 22.75% of the at-large vote).
Now, even though the total Republican base is 35% and larger than the runner-up Democrat's total vote share, the whole Republican party is wiped out from contention.
But I don’t see an argument for it in this answer, just what happens and what I think is likely the intention.
– Stormblessed
5 hours ago
@Stormblessed the argument when proposing this rule in the Democrat-majority legislature would have been to achieve more electoral victories for their fellow majority-party members. Although there may have been some alternative window-dressing explanation offered, that was the intention.
– ThomasThomas
5 hours ago
I don't see how this is supposed to work. If 65% of the voters supported democrats, the democratic candidate was going to win regardless. So how does this do anything to prevent "surprise Republican victories?" The only way Republican could win is if face two democrats in the general election, but the Democrats aren't stupid, they won't run two candidates.
– Winston Ewert
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Arguably the intention is to repress Republican candidates in Democrat - concentrated districts (and in state wide races).
By having an "open primary", the minority party is always disadvantaged because its already small percentage of the vote is further fractured by the primary vote (some Republicans vote for one candidate, others for another).
This gives the majority (Democrats in California) the advantage because although their vote is also split, since they have a larger voter base, the split votes still end up beating the Republican votes.
Hence how the districts end up with two Democrat candidates, which is what was intended to eliminate the possibility of a surprise Republican victory.
So, the argument in favor of such a system is to decrease the power of the minority party (which is something the majority party doubtless wants).
For example,
consider a district with 35% Republican voters, and 65% Democratic voters, each party running two primary candidates.
The Republican candidates split the republican vote 60% - 40% (21% and 14% of the at-large total). The Democrat candidates split the democrat vote 65% - 35% (42.25% and 22.75% of the at-large vote).
Now, even though the total Republican base is 35% and larger than the runner-up Democrat's total vote share, the whole Republican party is wiped out from contention.
Arguably the intention is to repress Republican candidates in Democrat - concentrated districts (and in state wide races).
By having an "open primary", the minority party is always disadvantaged because its already small percentage of the vote is further fractured by the primary vote (some Republicans vote for one candidate, others for another).
This gives the majority (Democrats in California) the advantage because although their vote is also split, since they have a larger voter base, the split votes still end up beating the Republican votes.
Hence how the districts end up with two Democrat candidates, which is what was intended to eliminate the possibility of a surprise Republican victory.
So, the argument in favor of such a system is to decrease the power of the minority party (which is something the majority party doubtless wants).
For example,
consider a district with 35% Republican voters, and 65% Democratic voters, each party running two primary candidates.
The Republican candidates split the republican vote 60% - 40% (21% and 14% of the at-large total). The Democrat candidates split the democrat vote 65% - 35% (42.25% and 22.75% of the at-large vote).
Now, even though the total Republican base is 35% and larger than the runner-up Democrat's total vote share, the whole Republican party is wiped out from contention.
answered 5 hours ago
ThomasThomasThomasThomas
2432 silver badges10 bronze badges
2432 silver badges10 bronze badges
But I don’t see an argument for it in this answer, just what happens and what I think is likely the intention.
– Stormblessed
5 hours ago
@Stormblessed the argument when proposing this rule in the Democrat-majority legislature would have been to achieve more electoral victories for their fellow majority-party members. Although there may have been some alternative window-dressing explanation offered, that was the intention.
– ThomasThomas
5 hours ago
I don't see how this is supposed to work. If 65% of the voters supported democrats, the democratic candidate was going to win regardless. So how does this do anything to prevent "surprise Republican victories?" The only way Republican could win is if face two democrats in the general election, but the Democrats aren't stupid, they won't run two candidates.
– Winston Ewert
2 hours ago
add a comment |
But I don’t see an argument for it in this answer, just what happens and what I think is likely the intention.
– Stormblessed
5 hours ago
@Stormblessed the argument when proposing this rule in the Democrat-majority legislature would have been to achieve more electoral victories for their fellow majority-party members. Although there may have been some alternative window-dressing explanation offered, that was the intention.
– ThomasThomas
5 hours ago
I don't see how this is supposed to work. If 65% of the voters supported democrats, the democratic candidate was going to win regardless. So how does this do anything to prevent "surprise Republican victories?" The only way Republican could win is if face two democrats in the general election, but the Democrats aren't stupid, they won't run two candidates.
– Winston Ewert
2 hours ago
But I don’t see an argument for it in this answer, just what happens and what I think is likely the intention.
– Stormblessed
5 hours ago
But I don’t see an argument for it in this answer, just what happens and what I think is likely the intention.
– Stormblessed
5 hours ago
@Stormblessed the argument when proposing this rule in the Democrat-majority legislature would have been to achieve more electoral victories for their fellow majority-party members. Although there may have been some alternative window-dressing explanation offered, that was the intention.
– ThomasThomas
5 hours ago
@Stormblessed the argument when proposing this rule in the Democrat-majority legislature would have been to achieve more electoral victories for their fellow majority-party members. Although there may have been some alternative window-dressing explanation offered, that was the intention.
– ThomasThomas
5 hours ago
I don't see how this is supposed to work. If 65% of the voters supported democrats, the democratic candidate was going to win regardless. So how does this do anything to prevent "surprise Republican victories?" The only way Republican could win is if face two democrats in the general election, but the Democrats aren't stupid, they won't run two candidates.
– Winston Ewert
2 hours ago
I don't see how this is supposed to work. If 65% of the voters supported democrats, the democratic candidate was going to win regardless. So how does this do anything to prevent "surprise Republican victories?" The only way Republican could win is if face two democrats in the general election, but the Democrats aren't stupid, they won't run two candidates.
– Winston Ewert
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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5
I don't have a good answer at hand, but keep in mind that because the primary is non-partisan, the voters have limited themselves to one party, rather than it being imposed. I think you can think of it more as the "primary" being the real election, and the election day vote being the runoff between the top two winners.
– Bobson
8 hours ago
Are there any limitations on entry as a candidate or voting for these primaries?
– Jontia
8 hours ago
2
Major argument seems to be that the two most popular candidates are presented in the election. Since the primary is non-partisan, the selection of the winners should also be non-partisan.
– doneal24
7 hours ago