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Processes in a session in an interactive shell vs in a script


What are “session leaders” in `ps`?How do I set an environment variable for sudo in MacOS?Bash : compare two strings with spaceWhy is this command not working: “ps aux | grep xscreensaver”Why is bash confusing this HEREDOC limit string as a command?bash - get pid for a script using the script filenameHow to understand the output of tracing running an external command in background via straceWhat differences are between running a command in shell with and without `bash -c`?printf in shell script can't do x%xWhat are the minimal environment variables a non-interactive & non-login shell would see?Invisible prompt after global redirection of stderr to /dev/null













3















If I run this command in a script it doesn't produce output except header from the ps:



 # Taken from Advanced Bash Usage on youtube:

echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"


This is the output:



$./testing.bash
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND


but here it is run in a terminal which produces the expected output:



$echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
18289 pts/4 Ss+ 0:00 /bin/bash
17917 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17918 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17919 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17920 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17921 pts/4 R+ 0:00 _ ps wwf -s 18289


QUESTION:



Can you explain the difference and show me the right way to do this?



I've tried a lot of things and searched google for 4 hours, if you need I can list what I tried but I don't think that's relevant here.



$echo $SHELL
/bin/bash


and:



$head -1 testing.bash 
#!/bin/bash









share|improve this question



















  • 2





    See also: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18166/…

    – muru
    9 hours ago















3















If I run this command in a script it doesn't produce output except header from the ps:



 # Taken from Advanced Bash Usage on youtube:

echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"


This is the output:



$./testing.bash
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND


but here it is run in a terminal which produces the expected output:



$echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
18289 pts/4 Ss+ 0:00 /bin/bash
17917 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17918 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17919 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17920 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17921 pts/4 R+ 0:00 _ ps wwf -s 18289


QUESTION:



Can you explain the difference and show me the right way to do this?



I've tried a lot of things and searched google for 4 hours, if you need I can list what I tried but I don't think that's relevant here.



$echo $SHELL
/bin/bash


and:



$head -1 testing.bash 
#!/bin/bash









share|improve this question



















  • 2





    See also: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18166/…

    – muru
    9 hours ago













3












3








3


1






If I run this command in a script it doesn't produce output except header from the ps:



 # Taken from Advanced Bash Usage on youtube:

echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"


This is the output:



$./testing.bash
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND


but here it is run in a terminal which produces the expected output:



$echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
18289 pts/4 Ss+ 0:00 /bin/bash
17917 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17918 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17919 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17920 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17921 pts/4 R+ 0:00 _ ps wwf -s 18289


QUESTION:



Can you explain the difference and show me the right way to do this?



I've tried a lot of things and searched google for 4 hours, if you need I can list what I tried but I don't think that's relevant here.



$echo $SHELL
/bin/bash


and:



$head -1 testing.bash 
#!/bin/bash









share|improve this question
















If I run this command in a script it doesn't produce output except header from the ps:



 # Taken from Advanced Bash Usage on youtube:

echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"


This is the output:



$./testing.bash
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND


but here it is run in a terminal which produces the expected output:



$echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(ps wwf -s $$)")")")"
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
18289 pts/4 Ss+ 0:00 /bin/bash
17917 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17918 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17919 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17920 pts/4 S+ 0:00 _ /bin/bash
17921 pts/4 R+ 0:00 _ ps wwf -s 18289


QUESTION:



Can you explain the difference and show me the right way to do this?



I've tried a lot of things and searched google for 4 hours, if you need I can list what I tried but I don't think that's relevant here.



$echo $SHELL
/bin/bash


and:



$head -1 testing.bash 
#!/bin/bash






bash shell-script ps command-substitution session






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago









Gilles

561k134 gold badges1157 silver badges1663 bronze badges




561k134 gold badges1157 silver badges1663 bronze badges










asked 9 hours ago









somethingSomethingsomethingSomething

2,33011 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges




2,33011 gold badges34 silver badges67 bronze badges







  • 2





    See also: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18166/…

    – muru
    9 hours ago












  • 2





    See also: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18166/…

    – muru
    9 hours ago







2




2





See also: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18166/…

– muru
9 hours ago





See also: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18166/…

– muru
9 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















9














ps' -s sessionid option is to select processes based on their session id.



You can use ps -j to see the session id of processes. Sessions along with process groups are generally used for shell job control (hence the -j).



Your terminal emulator creates a new session with the process that it then reuses to execute your preferred shell. So, in a terminal, the session id will generally be the same as the pid of that shell.



So, if you run ps -j -s "$$" in that shell, you'll get the processes in the session because "$$" happens to be the same as the session id.



If you run that command in any other shell (like the shell that is executed in a child process to interpret your testing script), any shell that is not a session leader, you'll get nothing because there's no session with an id that corresponds to the pid of that shell.



$ ps -j -s "$$"
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21002 21002 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


$$ is 7239, the session leader. So that ps -j -s 7239 gives me all the processes in that session.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$$"; ps -j -p "$$"'
+ ps -j -s 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
+ ps -j -p 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
21044 21044 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh


The first ps command returns nothing because, as the second ps shows, there's no session with id 21044 as the process of id 21044 is not a session leader. The session leader is still 7239, the shell started by the terminal emulator.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$(($(ps -o sid= -p "$$")))"'
+ ps -o sid= -p 21215
+ ps -j -s 7239
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21215 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh
21217 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


Now, we see all the processes in the session. We used ps -o sid= -p "$$" to get the id of the session that $$ belongs to.






share|improve this answer

























  • So would one possible "right way to do this" be to execute the script with setsid e.g. setsid -w ./testing.bash?

    – steeldriver
    9 hours ago











  • @steeldriver, yes that would create a new session with the shell interpreting the script being the session leader. You could also use script or xterm or any other terminal emulator or run it over ssh that would also create a new session. Or you could use -G instead of -s to get the processes in the job instead of the session (which would work as long as $$ is the process group leader which would generally be the case if the script is started on its one by an interactive shell)

    – Stéphane Chazelas
    9 hours ago














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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









9














ps' -s sessionid option is to select processes based on their session id.



You can use ps -j to see the session id of processes. Sessions along with process groups are generally used for shell job control (hence the -j).



Your terminal emulator creates a new session with the process that it then reuses to execute your preferred shell. So, in a terminal, the session id will generally be the same as the pid of that shell.



So, if you run ps -j -s "$$" in that shell, you'll get the processes in the session because "$$" happens to be the same as the session id.



If you run that command in any other shell (like the shell that is executed in a child process to interpret your testing script), any shell that is not a session leader, you'll get nothing because there's no session with an id that corresponds to the pid of that shell.



$ ps -j -s "$$"
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21002 21002 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


$$ is 7239, the session leader. So that ps -j -s 7239 gives me all the processes in that session.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$$"; ps -j -p "$$"'
+ ps -j -s 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
+ ps -j -p 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
21044 21044 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh


The first ps command returns nothing because, as the second ps shows, there's no session with id 21044 as the process of id 21044 is not a session leader. The session leader is still 7239, the shell started by the terminal emulator.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$(($(ps -o sid= -p "$$")))"'
+ ps -o sid= -p 21215
+ ps -j -s 7239
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21215 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh
21217 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


Now, we see all the processes in the session. We used ps -o sid= -p "$$" to get the id of the session that $$ belongs to.






share|improve this answer

























  • So would one possible "right way to do this" be to execute the script with setsid e.g. setsid -w ./testing.bash?

    – steeldriver
    9 hours ago











  • @steeldriver, yes that would create a new session with the shell interpreting the script being the session leader. You could also use script or xterm or any other terminal emulator or run it over ssh that would also create a new session. Or you could use -G instead of -s to get the processes in the job instead of the session (which would work as long as $$ is the process group leader which would generally be the case if the script is started on its one by an interactive shell)

    – Stéphane Chazelas
    9 hours ago
















9














ps' -s sessionid option is to select processes based on their session id.



You can use ps -j to see the session id of processes. Sessions along with process groups are generally used for shell job control (hence the -j).



Your terminal emulator creates a new session with the process that it then reuses to execute your preferred shell. So, in a terminal, the session id will generally be the same as the pid of that shell.



So, if you run ps -j -s "$$" in that shell, you'll get the processes in the session because "$$" happens to be the same as the session id.



If you run that command in any other shell (like the shell that is executed in a child process to interpret your testing script), any shell that is not a session leader, you'll get nothing because there's no session with an id that corresponds to the pid of that shell.



$ ps -j -s "$$"
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21002 21002 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


$$ is 7239, the session leader. So that ps -j -s 7239 gives me all the processes in that session.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$$"; ps -j -p "$$"'
+ ps -j -s 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
+ ps -j -p 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
21044 21044 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh


The first ps command returns nothing because, as the second ps shows, there's no session with id 21044 as the process of id 21044 is not a session leader. The session leader is still 7239, the shell started by the terminal emulator.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$(($(ps -o sid= -p "$$")))"'
+ ps -o sid= -p 21215
+ ps -j -s 7239
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21215 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh
21217 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


Now, we see all the processes in the session. We used ps -o sid= -p "$$" to get the id of the session that $$ belongs to.






share|improve this answer

























  • So would one possible "right way to do this" be to execute the script with setsid e.g. setsid -w ./testing.bash?

    – steeldriver
    9 hours ago











  • @steeldriver, yes that would create a new session with the shell interpreting the script being the session leader. You could also use script or xterm or any other terminal emulator or run it over ssh that would also create a new session. Or you could use -G instead of -s to get the processes in the job instead of the session (which would work as long as $$ is the process group leader which would generally be the case if the script is started on its one by an interactive shell)

    – Stéphane Chazelas
    9 hours ago














9












9








9







ps' -s sessionid option is to select processes based on their session id.



You can use ps -j to see the session id of processes. Sessions along with process groups are generally used for shell job control (hence the -j).



Your terminal emulator creates a new session with the process that it then reuses to execute your preferred shell. So, in a terminal, the session id will generally be the same as the pid of that shell.



So, if you run ps -j -s "$$" in that shell, you'll get the processes in the session because "$$" happens to be the same as the session id.



If you run that command in any other shell (like the shell that is executed in a child process to interpret your testing script), any shell that is not a session leader, you'll get nothing because there's no session with an id that corresponds to the pid of that shell.



$ ps -j -s "$$"
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21002 21002 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


$$ is 7239, the session leader. So that ps -j -s 7239 gives me all the processes in that session.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$$"; ps -j -p "$$"'
+ ps -j -s 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
+ ps -j -p 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
21044 21044 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh


The first ps command returns nothing because, as the second ps shows, there's no session with id 21044 as the process of id 21044 is not a session leader. The session leader is still 7239, the shell started by the terminal emulator.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$(($(ps -o sid= -p "$$")))"'
+ ps -o sid= -p 21215
+ ps -j -s 7239
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21215 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh
21217 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


Now, we see all the processes in the session. We used ps -o sid= -p "$$" to get the id of the session that $$ belongs to.






share|improve this answer















ps' -s sessionid option is to select processes based on their session id.



You can use ps -j to see the session id of processes. Sessions along with process groups are generally used for shell job control (hence the -j).



Your terminal emulator creates a new session with the process that it then reuses to execute your preferred shell. So, in a terminal, the session id will generally be the same as the pid of that shell.



So, if you run ps -j -s "$$" in that shell, you'll get the processes in the session because "$$" happens to be the same as the session id.



If you run that command in any other shell (like the shell that is executed in a child process to interpret your testing script), any shell that is not a session leader, you'll get nothing because there's no session with an id that corresponds to the pid of that shell.



$ ps -j -s "$$"
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21002 21002 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


$$ is 7239, the session leader. So that ps -j -s 7239 gives me all the processes in that session.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$$"; ps -j -p "$$"'
+ ps -j -s 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
+ ps -j -p 21044
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
21044 21044 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh


The first ps command returns nothing because, as the second ps shows, there's no session with id 21044 as the process of id 21044 is not a session leader. The session leader is still 7239, the shell started by the terminal emulator.



$ sh -xc 'ps -j -s "$(($(ps -o sid= -p "$$")))"'
+ ps -o sid= -p 21215
+ ps -j -s 7239
PID PGID SID TTY TIME CMD
7239 7239 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 zsh
21215 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 sh
21217 21215 7239 pts/7 00:00:00 ps


Now, we see all the processes in the session. We used ps -o sid= -p "$$" to get the id of the session that $$ belongs to.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 9 hours ago

























answered 9 hours ago









Stéphane ChazelasStéphane Chazelas

324k57 gold badges625 silver badges993 bronze badges




324k57 gold badges625 silver badges993 bronze badges












  • So would one possible "right way to do this" be to execute the script with setsid e.g. setsid -w ./testing.bash?

    – steeldriver
    9 hours ago











  • @steeldriver, yes that would create a new session with the shell interpreting the script being the session leader. You could also use script or xterm or any other terminal emulator or run it over ssh that would also create a new session. Or you could use -G instead of -s to get the processes in the job instead of the session (which would work as long as $$ is the process group leader which would generally be the case if the script is started on its one by an interactive shell)

    – Stéphane Chazelas
    9 hours ago


















  • So would one possible "right way to do this" be to execute the script with setsid e.g. setsid -w ./testing.bash?

    – steeldriver
    9 hours ago











  • @steeldriver, yes that would create a new session with the shell interpreting the script being the session leader. You could also use script or xterm or any other terminal emulator or run it over ssh that would also create a new session. Or you could use -G instead of -s to get the processes in the job instead of the session (which would work as long as $$ is the process group leader which would generally be the case if the script is started on its one by an interactive shell)

    – Stéphane Chazelas
    9 hours ago

















So would one possible "right way to do this" be to execute the script with setsid e.g. setsid -w ./testing.bash?

– steeldriver
9 hours ago





So would one possible "right way to do this" be to execute the script with setsid e.g. setsid -w ./testing.bash?

– steeldriver
9 hours ago













@steeldriver, yes that would create a new session with the shell interpreting the script being the session leader. You could also use script or xterm or any other terminal emulator or run it over ssh that would also create a new session. Or you could use -G instead of -s to get the processes in the job instead of the session (which would work as long as $$ is the process group leader which would generally be the case if the script is started on its one by an interactive shell)

– Stéphane Chazelas
9 hours ago






@steeldriver, yes that would create a new session with the shell interpreting the script being the session leader. You could also use script or xterm or any other terminal emulator or run it over ssh that would also create a new session. Or you could use -G instead of -s to get the processes in the job instead of the session (which would work as long as $$ is the process group leader which would generally be the case if the script is started on its one by an interactive shell)

– Stéphane Chazelas
9 hours ago


















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