Multiple tests with effects all in same direction but only few significantWeighting a control groupAnova repeated measures is significant, but all the multiple comparisons with Bonferroni correction are not?If I perform multiple unpaired t-tests on data, then break it down by gender, do I need to do additional multiple correction?When to create a control group with paired T testComparing Functional Connectivity as measured by fMRIWhat statistical test do I use to know the difference between treatment and control changes across a group? How many subjects would I need?Sample size analysis for pearson's R - corrected for multiple comparisonDivide patients into 2 groupsHypothesis testing control vs treatment when the outcome tends to vary over timeLow sample size analysis with all effects in same direction

Why would Dementors torture a Death Eater if they are loyal to Voldemort?

Processes in a session in an interactive shell vs in a script

Rear derailleur got caught in the spokes, what could be a root cause

Basic calculations in PGF/TikZ for loop

iMac 2019: Can I mix the old modules with the new ones when upgrading RAM?

Word ending in "-ine" for rat-like

Understanding the as-if rule, "the program was executed as written"

How do I present a future free of gender stereotypes without being jarring or overpowering the narrative?

Disk usage buggy: 10G missing on Linux home partition on SSD

Could you fall off a planet if it was being accelerated by engines?

Installed software from source, how to say yum not to install it from package?

Why did the Apple IIe make a hideous noise if you inserted the disk upside down?

Chandra exiles a card, I play it, it gets exiled again

Is it advisable to inform the CEO about his brother accessing his office?

How to stop QGIS from looking for the wrong PostgreSQL host address in an existing workproject?

Drawing a sigmoid function and its derivative in tikz

Why are symbols not written in words?

Why will we fail creating a self sustaining off world colony?

What prevents a US state from colonizing a smaller state?

What verb goes with "coup"?

Why doesn't SpaceX land boosters in Africa?

Calculus, water poured into a cone: Why is the derivative non-linear?

Robots in a spaceship

Are you required to spend hit dice to take a short rest?



Multiple tests with effects all in same direction but only few significant


Weighting a control groupAnova repeated measures is significant, but all the multiple comparisons with Bonferroni correction are not?If I perform multiple unpaired t-tests on data, then break it down by gender, do I need to do additional multiple correction?When to create a control group with paired T testComparing Functional Connectivity as measured by fMRIWhat statistical test do I use to know the difference between treatment and control changes across a group? How many subjects would I need?Sample size analysis for pearson's R - corrected for multiple comparisonDivide patients into 2 groupsHypothesis testing control vs treatment when the outcome tends to vary over timeLow sample size analysis with all effects in same direction













2












$begingroup$


I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    2












    $begingroup$


    I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?







      hypothesis-testing statistical-significance clustering t-test






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked 8 hours ago









      RyanRyan

      345 bronze badges




      345 bronze badges




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2












          $begingroup$

          There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



          (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



          (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



          Some suggestions:



          Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
          that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



          You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
          might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



          You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
          discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
          separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
          to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
          Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
          is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



          Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
          Fisher's introductory one.
          For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
          it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



          Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



          By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$















            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "65"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fstats.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f415323%2fmultiple-tests-with-effects-all-in-same-direction-but-only-few-significant%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            2












            $begingroup$

            There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



            (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



            (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



            Some suggestions:



            Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
            that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



            You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
            might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



            You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
            discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
            separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
            to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
            Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
            is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



            Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
            Fisher's introductory one.
            For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
            it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



            Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



            By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              2












              $begingroup$

              There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



              (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



              (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



              Some suggestions:



              Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
              that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



              You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
              might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



              You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
              discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
              separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
              to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
              Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
              is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



              Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
              Fisher's introductory one.
              For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
              it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



              Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



              By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                2












                2








                2





                $begingroup$

                There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



                (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



                (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



                Some suggestions:



                Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
                that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



                You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
                might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



                You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
                discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
                separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
                to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
                Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
                is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



                Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
                Fisher's introductory one.
                For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
                it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



                Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



                By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



                (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



                (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



                Some suggestions:



                Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
                that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



                You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
                might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



                You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
                discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
                separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
                to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
                Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
                is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



                Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
                Fisher's introductory one.
                For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
                it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



                Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



                By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 7 hours ago









                BruceETBruceET

                9,8621 gold badge8 silver badges24 bronze badges




                9,8621 gold badge8 silver badges24 bronze badges



























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded
















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Cross Validated!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid


                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fstats.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f415323%2fmultiple-tests-with-effects-all-in-same-direction-but-only-few-significant%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

                    Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

                    Tom Holland Mục lục Đầu đời và giáo dục | Sự nghiệp | Cuộc sống cá nhân | Phim tham gia | Giải thưởng và đề cử | Chú thích | Liên kết ngoài | Trình đơn chuyển hướngProfile“Person Details for Thomas Stanley Holland, "England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008" — FamilySearch.org”"Meet Tom Holland... the 16-year-old star of The Impossible""Schoolboy actor Tom Holland finds himself in Oscar contention for role in tsunami drama"“Naomi Watts on the Prince William and Harry's reaction to her film about the late Princess Diana”lưu trữ"Holland and Pflueger Are West End's Two New 'Billy Elliots'""I'm so envious of my son, the movie star! British writer Dominic Holland's spent 20 years trying to crack Hollywood - but he's been beaten to it by a very unlikely rival"“Richard and Margaret Povey of Jersey, Channel Islands, UK: Information about Thomas Stanley Holland”"Tom Holland to play Billy Elliot""New Billy Elliot leaving the garage"Billy Elliot the Musical - Tom Holland - Billy"A Tale of four Billys: Tom Holland""The Feel Good Factor""Thames Christian College schoolboys join Myleene Klass for The Feelgood Factor""Government launches £600,000 arts bursaries pilot""BILLY's Chapman, Holland, Gardner & Jackson-Keen Visit Prime Minister""Elton John 'blown away' by Billy Elliot fifth birthday" (video with John's interview and fragments of Holland's performance)"First News interviews Arrietty's Tom Holland"“33rd Critics' Circle Film Awards winners”“National Board of Review Current Awards”Bản gốc"Ron Howard Whaling Tale 'In The Heart Of The Sea' Casts Tom Holland"“'Spider-Man' Finds Tom Holland to Star as New Web-Slinger”lưu trữ“Captain America: Civil War (2016)”“Film Review: ‘Captain America: Civil War’”lưu trữ“‘Captain America: Civil War’ review: Choose your own avenger”lưu trữ“The Lost City of Z reviews”“Sony Pictures and Marvel Studios Find Their 'Spider-Man' Star and Director”“‘Mary Magdalene’, ‘Current War’ & ‘Wind River’ Get 2017 Release Dates From Weinstein”“Lionsgate Unleashing Daisy Ridley & Tom Holland Starrer ‘Chaos Walking’ In Cannes”“PTA's 'Master' Leads Chicago Film Critics Nominations, UPDATED: Houston and Indiana Critics Nominations”“Nominaciones Goya 2013 Telecinco Cinema – ENG”“Jameson Empire Film Awards: Martin Freeman wins best actor for performance in The Hobbit”“34th Annual Young Artist Awards”Bản gốc“Teen Choice Awards 2016—Captain America: Civil War Leads Second Wave of Nominations”“BAFTA Film Award Nominations: ‘La La Land’ Leads Race”“Saturn Awards Nominations 2017: 'Rogue One,' 'Walking Dead' Lead”Tom HollandTom HollandTom HollandTom Hollandmedia.gettyimages.comWorldCat Identities300279794no20130442900000 0004 0355 42791085670554170004732cb16706349t(data)XX5557367