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Multiple tests with effects all in same direction but only few significant


Weighting a control groupAnova repeated measures is significant, but all the multiple comparisons with Bonferroni correction are not?If I perform multiple unpaired t-tests on data, then break it down by gender, do I need to do additional multiple correction?When to create a control group with paired T testComparing Functional Connectivity as measured by fMRIWhat statistical test do I use to know the difference between treatment and control changes across a group? How many subjects would I need?Sample size analysis for pearson's R - corrected for multiple comparisonDivide patients into 2 groupsHypothesis testing control vs treatment when the outcome tends to vary over timeLow sample size analysis with all effects in same direction













2












$begingroup$


I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    2












    $begingroup$


    I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      I have tests done looking at the brain activity in 12 different regions of the brain. It is a between subject design where there is a treatment group (N = 8) and control group (N = 14). Each participant had these scans done on the 12 different brain regions. Every effect for all 12 brain regions showed that the treatment group had higher brain activity than the control group. However, the problem is because of the low sample size only 2 of these effects were significant with the others p values somewhere between .05 and .20. From this is there any statistical analysis I can do to be able to say that overall the brain activity was higher in the treatment group compared to the control? I tried taking an average activity among the 12 brain regions for each individual and analyzing that but the sample size was still N = 8 and N = 14 so it wasnt significant. Would it be possible to combine all of the data together and do a t test on that making it N = 8*12 = 96 for the treatment group and N = 14 * 12 = 168 for the control?







      hypothesis-testing statistical-significance clustering t-test






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      asked 8 hours ago









      RyanRyan

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          $begingroup$

          There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



          (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



          (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



          Some suggestions:



          Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
          that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



          You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
          might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



          You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
          discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
          separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
          to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
          Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
          is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



          Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
          Fisher's introductory one.
          For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
          it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



          Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



          By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






          share|cite|improve this answer









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            $begingroup$

            There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



            (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



            (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



            Some suggestions:



            Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
            that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



            You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
            might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



            You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
            discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
            separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
            to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
            Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
            is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



            Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
            Fisher's introductory one.
            For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
            it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



            Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



            By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              2












              $begingroup$

              There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



              (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



              (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



              Some suggestions:



              Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
              that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



              You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
              might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



              You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
              discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
              separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
              to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
              Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
              is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



              Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
              Fisher's introductory one.
              For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
              it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



              Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



              By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                2












                2








                2





                $begingroup$

                There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



                (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



                (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



                Some suggestions:



                Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
                that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



                You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
                might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



                You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
                discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
                separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
                to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
                Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
                is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



                Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
                Fisher's introductory one.
                For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
                it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



                Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



                By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                There seem to be at least two important difficulties:



                (1) Small sample sizes. Given that you could afford to look at 22 subjects, a (slightly) more efficient design would have been to have 11 in each group. But it may just be easier to enroll Control subjects than Treatment subjects.



                (2) Lack of independence. It is not clear whether results from various regions of the brain are independent. If the tests at 12 regions were independent, then having all 12 go in the same direction would be convincing. Without independence, the exact suggestion in your last sentence seems off the table.



                Some suggestions:



                Although the 5% significant level may be crucial for journal editors,
                that is an arbitrary criterion. It may be worthwhile doing further investigations when P-values are around 10%.



                You don't say anything about looking at correlations of results between brain regions. It may be useful to do so. If results in some brain regions
                might, in effect, be used to predict results in other regions, then (a) that may be important information in itself, or (b) maybe focusing on regions that provide useful independent information will permit looking at fewer regions and, over the long run, make larger sample sizes feasible.



                You have two categories of subjects, Treatment and Control. You might try
                discriminant analysis using all 12 regions to see how effectively your data
                separate the two groups. Also, you might try some sort of discriminant or cluster analysis
                to see if the data identify known patient 'groups' or suggest unexpected ones in 12-dimensions.
                Maybe someone else on this site could offer an opinion whether 22 subjects
                is likely to be enough to make such approaches worthwhile.



                Notes: Perhaps, the best known example of discriminant analysis is
                Fisher's introductory one.
                For 50 specimens of each of three varieties of iris flowers, four measurements were made: sepal and petal lengths and widths. His analysis showed that
                it is possible to classify almost all 150 specimens as to variety based only on these measurements.



                Can you classify your subjects as to Treatment and Control using your 12 measurements? Distinct classification is more difficult than barely detecting a difference in group means. Also, are there obvious sub-categories within Treatment and/or Control groups that might be worthwhile looking at?



                By contrast, cluster analysis seeks out distinct groups (perhaps not previously anticipated) based on data.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 7 hours ago









                BruceETBruceET

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