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Miss Toad and her frogs


The cage - a logic puzzleA blanket for my baby snakeAbducted and taken to which city?Sabotage at Sea - Cursed Cruise liner?Jack Sparrow and The quest for the missing Compass . Part 1Who's been stealing my H?Cheryl and her annoying birthdayTrick or Treating in Trutham-And-LyThe Prison Escape Pt. 1 (THE DOOR)Smart Students in a Murder Madhouse






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








7












$begingroup$


Miss Toad owns a lot of frogs. These frogs are all looking the same, but they can be either mad or nicely.



If a mad frog is in a room with 3 nicely frogs, then he turns red, because he is ashamed.



If a nicely frog is in a room with 3 mad frogs, then he also turns mad.



For test purposes, Miss Toad puts 3 frogs in a room.




Then she places the 4th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the first frog. Then she places the 5th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the second frog. And so on.

When she's placing the 2012th frog, it's the first time a frog in the room turns red.




Which of the following frogs could be mad from the beginning?



A) 1 and 2011.



B) 2 and 2010.



C) 3 and 2009.



D) 4 and 2012.



E) 2 and 2011.



F) I hate this riddle.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Matti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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$endgroup$







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    First thought: oh, this looks easy! After ten minutes: definitely option F.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Great puzzle! In the end it is easy, but only once you look at it in the right way.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much !!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Matti
    4 hours ago


















7












$begingroup$


Miss Toad owns a lot of frogs. These frogs are all looking the same, but they can be either mad or nicely.



If a mad frog is in a room with 3 nicely frogs, then he turns red, because he is ashamed.



If a nicely frog is in a room with 3 mad frogs, then he also turns mad.



For test purposes, Miss Toad puts 3 frogs in a room.




Then she places the 4th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the first frog. Then she places the 5th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the second frog. And so on.

When she's placing the 2012th frog, it's the first time a frog in the room turns red.




Which of the following frogs could be mad from the beginning?



A) 1 and 2011.



B) 2 and 2010.



C) 3 and 2009.



D) 4 and 2012.



E) 2 and 2011.



F) I hate this riddle.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Matti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    First thought: oh, this looks easy! After ten minutes: definitely option F.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Great puzzle! In the end it is easy, but only once you look at it in the right way.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much !!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Matti
    4 hours ago














7












7








7


1



$begingroup$


Miss Toad owns a lot of frogs. These frogs are all looking the same, but they can be either mad or nicely.



If a mad frog is in a room with 3 nicely frogs, then he turns red, because he is ashamed.



If a nicely frog is in a room with 3 mad frogs, then he also turns mad.



For test purposes, Miss Toad puts 3 frogs in a room.




Then she places the 4th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the first frog. Then she places the 5th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the second frog. And so on.

When she's placing the 2012th frog, it's the first time a frog in the room turns red.




Which of the following frogs could be mad from the beginning?



A) 1 and 2011.



B) 2 and 2010.



C) 3 and 2009.



D) 4 and 2012.



E) 2 and 2011.



F) I hate this riddle.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Matti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




Miss Toad owns a lot of frogs. These frogs are all looking the same, but they can be either mad or nicely.



If a mad frog is in a room with 3 nicely frogs, then he turns red, because he is ashamed.



If a nicely frog is in a room with 3 mad frogs, then he also turns mad.



For test purposes, Miss Toad puts 3 frogs in a room.




Then she places the 4th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the first frog. Then she places the 5th frog also there, waits a moment, and takes away the second frog. And so on.

When she's placing the 2012th frog, it's the first time a frog in the room turns red.




Which of the following frogs could be mad from the beginning?



A) 1 and 2011.



B) 2 and 2010.



C) 3 and 2009.



D) 4 and 2012.



E) 2 and 2011.



F) I hate this riddle.







logical-deduction






share|improve this question









New contributor



Matti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Matti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago









Rand al'Thor

74k15 gold badges244 silver badges490 bronze badges




74k15 gold badges244 silver badges490 bronze badges






New contributor



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asked 8 hours ago









MattiMatti

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4511 silver badge8 bronze badges




New contributor



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New contributor




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Check out our Code of Conduct.









  • 5




    $begingroup$
    First thought: oh, this looks easy! After ten minutes: definitely option F.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Great puzzle! In the end it is easy, but only once you look at it in the right way.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much !!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Matti
    4 hours ago













  • 5




    $begingroup$
    First thought: oh, this looks easy! After ten minutes: definitely option F.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Great puzzle! In the end it is easy, but only once you look at it in the right way.
    $endgroup$
    – Rand al'Thor
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much !!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Matti
    4 hours ago








5




5




$begingroup$
First thought: oh, this looks easy! After ten minutes: definitely option F.
$endgroup$
– Rand al'Thor
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
First thought: oh, this looks easy! After ten minutes: definitely option F.
$endgroup$
– Rand al'Thor
7 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Great puzzle! In the end it is easy, but only once you look at it in the right way.
$endgroup$
– Rand al'Thor
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Great puzzle! In the end it is easy, but only once you look at it in the right way.
$endgroup$
– Rand al'Thor
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
Thank you very much !!!!
$endgroup$
– Matti
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
Thank you very much !!!!
$endgroup$
– Matti
4 hours ago











1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

Initial information, re-parsed



We have a sequence of length 2012, in which each term is either N (nicely) or A (always mad) or C (mad converted from nicely). Among terms 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, three are N and the fourth is not, and that's never happened with any previous set of four consecutive terms.



Important deductions



If any term is C, then




it is part of a sequence of four consecutive mad (not N) terms, so everything afterwards will also be mad. This contradicts what happens at the 2012th term, so C never occurs. For the same reason, we can never have three consecutive mad terms.




If we have three consecutive N, then




everything afterwards must be N until the red incident at 2012. That's not compatible with any of the five stated options, so let's rule it out.




Now we know that every sequence of four consecutive terms (up to 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) must contain




two N, two A.




That means there's a pattern of invariance, namely




every term is the same as the one four before it. So 2009, 2010, 2011 are the same as 1, 2, 3, and at most one of these three is mad; while 2012 is the opposite of 2008, which is the same as 4.




Among the options given, that leaves only




option B as the correct answer.





Original answer (includes all possibilities for mad/nicely sequences)




  1. If 2012 is not N, then




    2012 is A, and every term before it must be N (otherwise we'd have had a red incident before). So option D is impossible.





  2. If 2011 is not N, then




    2011 is A and 2009, 2010, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 can't be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 must be N.

    05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
    N N mad mad N N mad N


    This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 1 or 2 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 3 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 1 and 2 are N, so options A and E are impossible.





  3. If 2010 is not N, then




    2010 is A and 2009, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 can't be N, so 2005 must be N.

    05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
    N mad N mad N mad N N


    This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything odd is nicely while everything even is mad (therefore A). In particular, 2 is A, so option B is possible.





  4. If 2009 is not N, then




    2009 is mad and 2010, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 can't be N.

    05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
    mad N N mad mad N N N


    This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 2 or 3 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 1 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 3 is N, so option C is impossible.




Final answer




Option B is the only one which can be true.







share|improve this answer











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    1 Answer
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    active

    oldest

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    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    4












    $begingroup$

    Initial information, re-parsed



    We have a sequence of length 2012, in which each term is either N (nicely) or A (always mad) or C (mad converted from nicely). Among terms 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, three are N and the fourth is not, and that's never happened with any previous set of four consecutive terms.



    Important deductions



    If any term is C, then




    it is part of a sequence of four consecutive mad (not N) terms, so everything afterwards will also be mad. This contradicts what happens at the 2012th term, so C never occurs. For the same reason, we can never have three consecutive mad terms.




    If we have three consecutive N, then




    everything afterwards must be N until the red incident at 2012. That's not compatible with any of the five stated options, so let's rule it out.




    Now we know that every sequence of four consecutive terms (up to 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) must contain




    two N, two A.




    That means there's a pattern of invariance, namely




    every term is the same as the one four before it. So 2009, 2010, 2011 are the same as 1, 2, 3, and at most one of these three is mad; while 2012 is the opposite of 2008, which is the same as 4.




    Among the options given, that leaves only




    option B as the correct answer.





    Original answer (includes all possibilities for mad/nicely sequences)




    1. If 2012 is not N, then




      2012 is A, and every term before it must be N (otherwise we'd have had a red incident before). So option D is impossible.





    2. If 2011 is not N, then




      2011 is A and 2009, 2010, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 can't be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 must be N.

      05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
      N N mad mad N N mad N


      This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 1 or 2 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 3 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 1 and 2 are N, so options A and E are impossible.





    3. If 2010 is not N, then




      2010 is A and 2009, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 can't be N, so 2005 must be N.

      05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
      N mad N mad N mad N N


      This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything odd is nicely while everything even is mad (therefore A). In particular, 2 is A, so option B is possible.





    4. If 2009 is not N, then




      2009 is mad and 2010, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 can't be N.

      05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
      mad N N mad mad N N N


      This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 2 or 3 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 1 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 3 is N, so option C is impossible.




    Final answer




    Option B is the only one which can be true.







    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$

















      4












      $begingroup$

      Initial information, re-parsed



      We have a sequence of length 2012, in which each term is either N (nicely) or A (always mad) or C (mad converted from nicely). Among terms 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, three are N and the fourth is not, and that's never happened with any previous set of four consecutive terms.



      Important deductions



      If any term is C, then




      it is part of a sequence of four consecutive mad (not N) terms, so everything afterwards will also be mad. This contradicts what happens at the 2012th term, so C never occurs. For the same reason, we can never have three consecutive mad terms.




      If we have three consecutive N, then




      everything afterwards must be N until the red incident at 2012. That's not compatible with any of the five stated options, so let's rule it out.




      Now we know that every sequence of four consecutive terms (up to 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) must contain




      two N, two A.




      That means there's a pattern of invariance, namely




      every term is the same as the one four before it. So 2009, 2010, 2011 are the same as 1, 2, 3, and at most one of these three is mad; while 2012 is the opposite of 2008, which is the same as 4.




      Among the options given, that leaves only




      option B as the correct answer.





      Original answer (includes all possibilities for mad/nicely sequences)




      1. If 2012 is not N, then




        2012 is A, and every term before it must be N (otherwise we'd have had a red incident before). So option D is impossible.





      2. If 2011 is not N, then




        2011 is A and 2009, 2010, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 can't be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 must be N.

        05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
        N N mad mad N N mad N


        This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 1 or 2 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 3 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 1 and 2 are N, so options A and E are impossible.





      3. If 2010 is not N, then




        2010 is A and 2009, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 can't be N, so 2005 must be N.

        05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
        N mad N mad N mad N N


        This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything odd is nicely while everything even is mad (therefore A). In particular, 2 is A, so option B is possible.





      4. If 2009 is not N, then




        2009 is mad and 2010, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 can't be N.

        05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
        mad N N mad mad N N N


        This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 2 or 3 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 1 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 3 is N, so option C is impossible.




      Final answer




      Option B is the only one which can be true.







      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$















        4












        4








        4





        $begingroup$

        Initial information, re-parsed



        We have a sequence of length 2012, in which each term is either N (nicely) or A (always mad) or C (mad converted from nicely). Among terms 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, three are N and the fourth is not, and that's never happened with any previous set of four consecutive terms.



        Important deductions



        If any term is C, then




        it is part of a sequence of four consecutive mad (not N) terms, so everything afterwards will also be mad. This contradicts what happens at the 2012th term, so C never occurs. For the same reason, we can never have three consecutive mad terms.




        If we have three consecutive N, then




        everything afterwards must be N until the red incident at 2012. That's not compatible with any of the five stated options, so let's rule it out.




        Now we know that every sequence of four consecutive terms (up to 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) must contain




        two N, two A.




        That means there's a pattern of invariance, namely




        every term is the same as the one four before it. So 2009, 2010, 2011 are the same as 1, 2, 3, and at most one of these three is mad; while 2012 is the opposite of 2008, which is the same as 4.




        Among the options given, that leaves only




        option B as the correct answer.





        Original answer (includes all possibilities for mad/nicely sequences)




        1. If 2012 is not N, then




          2012 is A, and every term before it must be N (otherwise we'd have had a red incident before). So option D is impossible.





        2. If 2011 is not N, then




          2011 is A and 2009, 2010, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 can't be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 must be N.

          05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
          N N mad mad N N mad N


          This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 1 or 2 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 3 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 1 and 2 are N, so options A and E are impossible.





        3. If 2010 is not N, then




          2010 is A and 2009, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 can't be N, so 2005 must be N.

          05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
          N mad N mad N mad N N


          This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything odd is nicely while everything even is mad (therefore A). In particular, 2 is A, so option B is possible.





        4. If 2009 is not N, then




          2009 is mad and 2010, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 can't be N.

          05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
          mad N N mad mad N N N


          This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 2 or 3 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 1 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 3 is N, so option C is impossible.




        Final answer




        Option B is the only one which can be true.







        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        Initial information, re-parsed



        We have a sequence of length 2012, in which each term is either N (nicely) or A (always mad) or C (mad converted from nicely). Among terms 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, three are N and the fourth is not, and that's never happened with any previous set of four consecutive terms.



        Important deductions



        If any term is C, then




        it is part of a sequence of four consecutive mad (not N) terms, so everything afterwards will also be mad. This contradicts what happens at the 2012th term, so C never occurs. For the same reason, we can never have three consecutive mad terms.




        If we have three consecutive N, then




        everything afterwards must be N until the red incident at 2012. That's not compatible with any of the five stated options, so let's rule it out.




        Now we know that every sequence of four consecutive terms (up to 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) must contain




        two N, two A.




        That means there's a pattern of invariance, namely




        every term is the same as the one four before it. So 2009, 2010, 2011 are the same as 1, 2, 3, and at most one of these three is mad; while 2012 is the opposite of 2008, which is the same as 4.




        Among the options given, that leaves only




        option B as the correct answer.





        Original answer (includes all possibilities for mad/nicely sequences)




        1. If 2012 is not N, then




          2012 is A, and every term before it must be N (otherwise we'd have had a red incident before). So option D is impossible.





        2. If 2011 is not N, then




          2011 is A and 2009, 2010, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 can't be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 must be N.

          05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
          N N mad mad N N mad N


          This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 1 or 2 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 3 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 1 and 2 are N, so options A and E are impossible.





        3. If 2010 is not N, then




          2010 is A and 2009, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 can't be N, so 2005 must be N.

          05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
          N mad N mad N mad N N


          This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything odd is nicely while everything even is mad (therefore A). In particular, 2 is A, so option B is possible.





        4. If 2009 is not N, then




          2009 is mad and 2010, 2011, 2012 are N, so 2008 can't be N, so 2007 must be N, so 2006 must be N, so 2005 can't be N.

          05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
          mad N N mad mad N N N


          This pattern must keep on repeating all the way back, so everything congruent to 2 or 3 modulo 4 is nicely while everything congruent to 0 or 1 modulo 4 is mad (therefore A). In particular, 3 is N, so option C is impossible.




        Final answer




        Option B is the only one which can be true.








        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 7 hours ago

























        answered 7 hours ago









        Rand al'ThorRand al'Thor

        74k15 gold badges244 silver badges490 bronze badges




        74k15 gold badges244 silver badges490 bronze badges




















            Matti is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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