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Working in the USA for living expenses only; allowed on VWP?


Possible for Polish citizen to obtain US visa without employment?The airline allowed us to travel to our destination without checking our visas. Who is at fault for the incurred expenses?My mother-in-law (US citizen) was refused a UK visa to visit her grandson. What are my options?Why was my colleague refused a US B1 visa?Can dual US/UK citizen travel with only UK passport and ESTA?Getting my work visa after traveling on the VWP (USA)UK to US visa posiblities to travelHow long before I can re-enter the US on a B visa?After being refused entry, how long should I wait to apply for a US B2 visa?Question on applying for a UK tourist visa for Filipina girlfriend






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1















My 18-year old niece has been offered work in LA by a 20 year old American born videographer she met at the Cannes Film Festival. She is learning scriptwriting/directing. He has suggested that he pays all of her “living expenses” instead of a salary so she can travel on her passport and an ESTA Visa (she lives in UK and is a UK citizen). He has been told this by an immigration lawyer! Is this correct and legal?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • I had that feeling!

    – Jayn
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    This looks decidedly suspect. My suspicions rest on the videographer.

    – Redd Herring
    8 hours ago






  • 5





    Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists. de.usembassy.gov/…

    – user 56513
    7 hours ago












  • I would say it's not correct (one cannot work on an ESTA), it's not legal (same), and it's definitely risky.

    – Greg Hewgill
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    Let me discourage your niece for another reason: if the working relationship falls through, or the videographer (aged 20! not even a college graduate) makes demands she is unwilling to meet, she's stuck with no money, no place to live, and dubious legal status.

    – Andrew Lazarus
    6 hours ago

















1















My 18-year old niece has been offered work in LA by a 20 year old American born videographer she met at the Cannes Film Festival. She is learning scriptwriting/directing. He has suggested that he pays all of her “living expenses” instead of a salary so she can travel on her passport and an ESTA Visa (she lives in UK and is a UK citizen). He has been told this by an immigration lawyer! Is this correct and legal?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • I had that feeling!

    – Jayn
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    This looks decidedly suspect. My suspicions rest on the videographer.

    – Redd Herring
    8 hours ago






  • 5





    Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists. de.usembassy.gov/…

    – user 56513
    7 hours ago












  • I would say it's not correct (one cannot work on an ESTA), it's not legal (same), and it's definitely risky.

    – Greg Hewgill
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    Let me discourage your niece for another reason: if the working relationship falls through, or the videographer (aged 20! not even a college graduate) makes demands she is unwilling to meet, she's stuck with no money, no place to live, and dubious legal status.

    – Andrew Lazarus
    6 hours ago













1












1








1








My 18-year old niece has been offered work in LA by a 20 year old American born videographer she met at the Cannes Film Festival. She is learning scriptwriting/directing. He has suggested that he pays all of her “living expenses” instead of a salary so she can travel on her passport and an ESTA Visa (she lives in UK and is a UK citizen). He has been told this by an immigration lawyer! Is this correct and legal?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











My 18-year old niece has been offered work in LA by a 20 year old American born videographer she met at the Cannes Film Festival. She is learning scriptwriting/directing. He has suggested that he pays all of her “living expenses” instead of a salary so she can travel on her passport and an ESTA Visa (she lives in UK and is a UK citizen). He has been told this by an immigration lawyer! Is this correct and legal?







visas usa us-visa-waiver-program work






share|improve this question









New contributor



Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago









choster

35.3k5101156




35.3k5101156






New contributor



Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 8 hours ago









JaynJayn

61




61




New contributor



Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




Jayn is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • I had that feeling!

    – Jayn
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    This looks decidedly suspect. My suspicions rest on the videographer.

    – Redd Herring
    8 hours ago






  • 5





    Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists. de.usembassy.gov/…

    – user 56513
    7 hours ago












  • I would say it's not correct (one cannot work on an ESTA), it's not legal (same), and it's definitely risky.

    – Greg Hewgill
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    Let me discourage your niece for another reason: if the working relationship falls through, or the videographer (aged 20! not even a college graduate) makes demands she is unwilling to meet, she's stuck with no money, no place to live, and dubious legal status.

    – Andrew Lazarus
    6 hours ago

















  • I had that feeling!

    – Jayn
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    This looks decidedly suspect. My suspicions rest on the videographer.

    – Redd Herring
    8 hours ago






  • 5





    Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists. de.usembassy.gov/…

    – user 56513
    7 hours ago












  • I would say it's not correct (one cannot work on an ESTA), it's not legal (same), and it's definitely risky.

    – Greg Hewgill
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    Let me discourage your niece for another reason: if the working relationship falls through, or the videographer (aged 20! not even a college graduate) makes demands she is unwilling to meet, she's stuck with no money, no place to live, and dubious legal status.

    – Andrew Lazarus
    6 hours ago
















I had that feeling!

– Jayn
8 hours ago





I had that feeling!

– Jayn
8 hours ago




1




1





This looks decidedly suspect. My suspicions rest on the videographer.

– Redd Herring
8 hours ago





This looks decidedly suspect. My suspicions rest on the videographer.

– Redd Herring
8 hours ago




5




5





Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists. de.usembassy.gov/…

– user 56513
7 hours ago






Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists. de.usembassy.gov/…

– user 56513
7 hours ago














I would say it's not correct (one cannot work on an ESTA), it's not legal (same), and it's definitely risky.

– Greg Hewgill
7 hours ago





I would say it's not correct (one cannot work on an ESTA), it's not legal (same), and it's definitely risky.

– Greg Hewgill
7 hours ago




4




4





Let me discourage your niece for another reason: if the working relationship falls through, or the videographer (aged 20! not even a college graduate) makes demands she is unwilling to meet, she's stuck with no money, no place to live, and dubious legal status.

– Andrew Lazarus
6 hours ago





Let me discourage your niece for another reason: if the working relationship falls through, or the videographer (aged 20! not even a college graduate) makes demands she is unwilling to meet, she's stuck with no money, no place to live, and dubious legal status.

– Andrew Lazarus
6 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















7














As a technical matter, your niece as a UK citizen can enter the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP); the ESTA is an authorization for the bearer to attempt to enter under the VWP. VWP visitors are only permitted to engage in activities that would be permitted under a B1 (business) or B2 (tourist) visitor visa, examples of which are enumerated on the State Department VWP page:




Business:



  • consult with business associates

  • attend a scientific, educational, professional, or business convention or conference

  • attend short-term training (you may not be paid by any source in the United States with the exception of expenses incidental to your stay)

  • negotiate a contract

Tourism:



  • tourism

  • vacation (holiday)

  • visit with friends or relatives

  • medical treatment

  • participation in social events hosted by fraternal, social, or service organizations

  • participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating

  • enrollment in a short recreational course of study, not for credit toward a degree (for example, a two-day cooking class while on vacation)



The same page also provides examples of activities that are not permitted, which include




  • study, for credit

  • employment

  • work as foreign press, radio, film, journalists, or other information media

  • permanent residence in the United States



"Business" as noted is not the same as "work," but you mention "work." For VWP and B1/B2 visitors, employment, even without pay, is explicitly disallowed. Even volunteer work is only permitted if the work is not normally done in expectation of pay, which would not the case with, say, screenwriting or videography. Interns, trainees, and the like require a J-1 (exchange student/scholar/worker) visa, and there are specific eligibility criteria to meet for each category. Others can be admitted on an H-3 (non-immigrant trainee) visa, though I do not think your niece would readily qualify for one of those, either.



So at best, your niece might characterize this as "short-term training," with incidentals covered, although without additional details of what her day-to-day activities would be, it is hard to say whether they would actually qualify. It would be one thing if this were with a company or non-profit organization with formal guidelines and expectations that could be evaluated. This sounds like this is a personal invitation, which is another matter.




That brings up another red flag, or several: is the videographer interested in your niece's talents, or in your niece? Now, I am sure she, and you, are not naive, and I know nothing about the exact nature of their relationship—he might have the purest of artistic motivations, or they might share an interest in each other (whether creative or intellectual or romantic) undergirding the plan. But to state it for the record, your niece would be on the short end of a tremendous imbalance of power. She would be relying on what sounds like essentially a stranger not just for training and career advancement, but for housing and other necessities as well, in a foreign country, and in an industry notorious for preying upon young women in the city it dominates.



So, while I am not an immigration lawyer and cannot tell you definitively whether her planned sojourn would be legal with the detail you have provided, I am someone who would discourage my own niece from embarking on such a plan unless she pays her own way and makes her own arrangements.






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    1 Answer
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    active

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    7














    As a technical matter, your niece as a UK citizen can enter the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP); the ESTA is an authorization for the bearer to attempt to enter under the VWP. VWP visitors are only permitted to engage in activities that would be permitted under a B1 (business) or B2 (tourist) visitor visa, examples of which are enumerated on the State Department VWP page:




    Business:



    • consult with business associates

    • attend a scientific, educational, professional, or business convention or conference

    • attend short-term training (you may not be paid by any source in the United States with the exception of expenses incidental to your stay)

    • negotiate a contract

    Tourism:



    • tourism

    • vacation (holiday)

    • visit with friends or relatives

    • medical treatment

    • participation in social events hosted by fraternal, social, or service organizations

    • participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating

    • enrollment in a short recreational course of study, not for credit toward a degree (for example, a two-day cooking class while on vacation)



    The same page also provides examples of activities that are not permitted, which include




    • study, for credit

    • employment

    • work as foreign press, radio, film, journalists, or other information media

    • permanent residence in the United States



    "Business" as noted is not the same as "work," but you mention "work." For VWP and B1/B2 visitors, employment, even without pay, is explicitly disallowed. Even volunteer work is only permitted if the work is not normally done in expectation of pay, which would not the case with, say, screenwriting or videography. Interns, trainees, and the like require a J-1 (exchange student/scholar/worker) visa, and there are specific eligibility criteria to meet for each category. Others can be admitted on an H-3 (non-immigrant trainee) visa, though I do not think your niece would readily qualify for one of those, either.



    So at best, your niece might characterize this as "short-term training," with incidentals covered, although without additional details of what her day-to-day activities would be, it is hard to say whether they would actually qualify. It would be one thing if this were with a company or non-profit organization with formal guidelines and expectations that could be evaluated. This sounds like this is a personal invitation, which is another matter.




    That brings up another red flag, or several: is the videographer interested in your niece's talents, or in your niece? Now, I am sure she, and you, are not naive, and I know nothing about the exact nature of their relationship—he might have the purest of artistic motivations, or they might share an interest in each other (whether creative or intellectual or romantic) undergirding the plan. But to state it for the record, your niece would be on the short end of a tremendous imbalance of power. She would be relying on what sounds like essentially a stranger not just for training and career advancement, but for housing and other necessities as well, in a foreign country, and in an industry notorious for preying upon young women in the city it dominates.



    So, while I am not an immigration lawyer and cannot tell you definitively whether her planned sojourn would be legal with the detail you have provided, I am someone who would discourage my own niece from embarking on such a plan unless she pays her own way and makes her own arrangements.






    share|improve this answer



























      7














      As a technical matter, your niece as a UK citizen can enter the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP); the ESTA is an authorization for the bearer to attempt to enter under the VWP. VWP visitors are only permitted to engage in activities that would be permitted under a B1 (business) or B2 (tourist) visitor visa, examples of which are enumerated on the State Department VWP page:




      Business:



      • consult with business associates

      • attend a scientific, educational, professional, or business convention or conference

      • attend short-term training (you may not be paid by any source in the United States with the exception of expenses incidental to your stay)

      • negotiate a contract

      Tourism:



      • tourism

      • vacation (holiday)

      • visit with friends or relatives

      • medical treatment

      • participation in social events hosted by fraternal, social, or service organizations

      • participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating

      • enrollment in a short recreational course of study, not for credit toward a degree (for example, a two-day cooking class while on vacation)



      The same page also provides examples of activities that are not permitted, which include




      • study, for credit

      • employment

      • work as foreign press, radio, film, journalists, or other information media

      • permanent residence in the United States



      "Business" as noted is not the same as "work," but you mention "work." For VWP and B1/B2 visitors, employment, even without pay, is explicitly disallowed. Even volunteer work is only permitted if the work is not normally done in expectation of pay, which would not the case with, say, screenwriting or videography. Interns, trainees, and the like require a J-1 (exchange student/scholar/worker) visa, and there are specific eligibility criteria to meet for each category. Others can be admitted on an H-3 (non-immigrant trainee) visa, though I do not think your niece would readily qualify for one of those, either.



      So at best, your niece might characterize this as "short-term training," with incidentals covered, although without additional details of what her day-to-day activities would be, it is hard to say whether they would actually qualify. It would be one thing if this were with a company or non-profit organization with formal guidelines and expectations that could be evaluated. This sounds like this is a personal invitation, which is another matter.




      That brings up another red flag, or several: is the videographer interested in your niece's talents, or in your niece? Now, I am sure she, and you, are not naive, and I know nothing about the exact nature of their relationship—he might have the purest of artistic motivations, or they might share an interest in each other (whether creative or intellectual or romantic) undergirding the plan. But to state it for the record, your niece would be on the short end of a tremendous imbalance of power. She would be relying on what sounds like essentially a stranger not just for training and career advancement, but for housing and other necessities as well, in a foreign country, and in an industry notorious for preying upon young women in the city it dominates.



      So, while I am not an immigration lawyer and cannot tell you definitively whether her planned sojourn would be legal with the detail you have provided, I am someone who would discourage my own niece from embarking on such a plan unless she pays her own way and makes her own arrangements.






      share|improve this answer

























        7












        7








        7







        As a technical matter, your niece as a UK citizen can enter the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP); the ESTA is an authorization for the bearer to attempt to enter under the VWP. VWP visitors are only permitted to engage in activities that would be permitted under a B1 (business) or B2 (tourist) visitor visa, examples of which are enumerated on the State Department VWP page:




        Business:



        • consult with business associates

        • attend a scientific, educational, professional, or business convention or conference

        • attend short-term training (you may not be paid by any source in the United States with the exception of expenses incidental to your stay)

        • negotiate a contract

        Tourism:



        • tourism

        • vacation (holiday)

        • visit with friends or relatives

        • medical treatment

        • participation in social events hosted by fraternal, social, or service organizations

        • participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating

        • enrollment in a short recreational course of study, not for credit toward a degree (for example, a two-day cooking class while on vacation)



        The same page also provides examples of activities that are not permitted, which include




        • study, for credit

        • employment

        • work as foreign press, radio, film, journalists, or other information media

        • permanent residence in the United States



        "Business" as noted is not the same as "work," but you mention "work." For VWP and B1/B2 visitors, employment, even without pay, is explicitly disallowed. Even volunteer work is only permitted if the work is not normally done in expectation of pay, which would not the case with, say, screenwriting or videography. Interns, trainees, and the like require a J-1 (exchange student/scholar/worker) visa, and there are specific eligibility criteria to meet for each category. Others can be admitted on an H-3 (non-immigrant trainee) visa, though I do not think your niece would readily qualify for one of those, either.



        So at best, your niece might characterize this as "short-term training," with incidentals covered, although without additional details of what her day-to-day activities would be, it is hard to say whether they would actually qualify. It would be one thing if this were with a company or non-profit organization with formal guidelines and expectations that could be evaluated. This sounds like this is a personal invitation, which is another matter.




        That brings up another red flag, or several: is the videographer interested in your niece's talents, or in your niece? Now, I am sure she, and you, are not naive, and I know nothing about the exact nature of their relationship—he might have the purest of artistic motivations, or they might share an interest in each other (whether creative or intellectual or romantic) undergirding the plan. But to state it for the record, your niece would be on the short end of a tremendous imbalance of power. She would be relying on what sounds like essentially a stranger not just for training and career advancement, but for housing and other necessities as well, in a foreign country, and in an industry notorious for preying upon young women in the city it dominates.



        So, while I am not an immigration lawyer and cannot tell you definitively whether her planned sojourn would be legal with the detail you have provided, I am someone who would discourage my own niece from embarking on such a plan unless she pays her own way and makes her own arrangements.






        share|improve this answer













        As a technical matter, your niece as a UK citizen can enter the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP); the ESTA is an authorization for the bearer to attempt to enter under the VWP. VWP visitors are only permitted to engage in activities that would be permitted under a B1 (business) or B2 (tourist) visitor visa, examples of which are enumerated on the State Department VWP page:




        Business:



        • consult with business associates

        • attend a scientific, educational, professional, or business convention or conference

        • attend short-term training (you may not be paid by any source in the United States with the exception of expenses incidental to your stay)

        • negotiate a contract

        Tourism:



        • tourism

        • vacation (holiday)

        • visit with friends or relatives

        • medical treatment

        • participation in social events hosted by fraternal, social, or service organizations

        • participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating

        • enrollment in a short recreational course of study, not for credit toward a degree (for example, a two-day cooking class while on vacation)



        The same page also provides examples of activities that are not permitted, which include




        • study, for credit

        • employment

        • work as foreign press, radio, film, journalists, or other information media

        • permanent residence in the United States



        "Business" as noted is not the same as "work," but you mention "work." For VWP and B1/B2 visitors, employment, even without pay, is explicitly disallowed. Even volunteer work is only permitted if the work is not normally done in expectation of pay, which would not the case with, say, screenwriting or videography. Interns, trainees, and the like require a J-1 (exchange student/scholar/worker) visa, and there are specific eligibility criteria to meet for each category. Others can be admitted on an H-3 (non-immigrant trainee) visa, though I do not think your niece would readily qualify for one of those, either.



        So at best, your niece might characterize this as "short-term training," with incidentals covered, although without additional details of what her day-to-day activities would be, it is hard to say whether they would actually qualify. It would be one thing if this were with a company or non-profit organization with formal guidelines and expectations that could be evaluated. This sounds like this is a personal invitation, which is another matter.




        That brings up another red flag, or several: is the videographer interested in your niece's talents, or in your niece? Now, I am sure she, and you, are not naive, and I know nothing about the exact nature of their relationship—he might have the purest of artistic motivations, or they might share an interest in each other (whether creative or intellectual or romantic) undergirding the plan. But to state it for the record, your niece would be on the short end of a tremendous imbalance of power. She would be relying on what sounds like essentially a stranger not just for training and career advancement, but for housing and other necessities as well, in a foreign country, and in an industry notorious for preying upon young women in the city it dominates.



        So, while I am not an immigration lawyer and cannot tell you definitively whether her planned sojourn would be legal with the detail you have provided, I am someone who would discourage my own niece from embarking on such a plan unless she pays her own way and makes her own arrangements.







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        answered 6 hours ago









        chosterchoster

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