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Is throwing dice a stochastic or a deterministic process?
Describe Ising model dynamics in stochastic differential equation or stochastic processWhat is a stochastic process in a physics context?Deterministic universe for dummiesStochastic process generating fractional diffusionCan we predict throwing a dice?Randomness v. complexityChess as random processIs a dice roll deterministic?Deterministic vs stochastic approachFirst-passage time of a 1d marked Poisson (shot noise) process
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As far as I understand it a stochastic process is a mathematically defined concept as a collection of random variables which describe outcomes of repeated events while a deterministic process is something which can be described by a set of deterministic laws. Is then playing (classical, not quantum) dices a stochastic or deterministic process? It needs random variables to be described, but it is also inherently governed by classical deterministic laws. Or can we say that throwing dices is a deterministic process which becomes a stochastic process once we use random variables to predict their outcome? It seems to me only a descriptive switch, not an ontological one. Can someone tell me how to discriminate better between the two notions?
determinism stochastic-processes randomness stochastic-models
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
As far as I understand it a stochastic process is a mathematically defined concept as a collection of random variables which describe outcomes of repeated events while a deterministic process is something which can be described by a set of deterministic laws. Is then playing (classical, not quantum) dices a stochastic or deterministic process? It needs random variables to be described, but it is also inherently governed by classical deterministic laws. Or can we say that throwing dices is a deterministic process which becomes a stochastic process once we use random variables to predict their outcome? It seems to me only a descriptive switch, not an ontological one. Can someone tell me how to discriminate better between the two notions?
determinism stochastic-processes randomness stochastic-models
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As far as I understand it a stochastic process is a mathematically defined concept as a collection of random variables which describe outcomes of repeated events while a deterministic process is something which can be described by a set of deterministic laws. Is then playing (classical, not quantum) dices a stochastic or deterministic process? It needs random variables to be described, but it is also inherently governed by classical deterministic laws. Or can we say that throwing dices is a deterministic process which becomes a stochastic process once we use random variables to predict their outcome? It seems to me only a descriptive switch, not an ontological one. Can someone tell me how to discriminate better between the two notions?
determinism stochastic-processes randomness stochastic-models
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
$endgroup$
As far as I understand it a stochastic process is a mathematically defined concept as a collection of random variables which describe outcomes of repeated events while a deterministic process is something which can be described by a set of deterministic laws. Is then playing (classical, not quantum) dices a stochastic or deterministic process? It needs random variables to be described, but it is also inherently governed by classical deterministic laws. Or can we say that throwing dices is a deterministic process which becomes a stochastic process once we use random variables to predict their outcome? It seems to me only a descriptive switch, not an ontological one. Can someone tell me how to discriminate better between the two notions?
determinism stochastic-processes randomness stochastic-models
determinism stochastic-processes randomness stochastic-models
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
edited 4 hours ago
Mark
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
asked 4 hours ago
MarkMark
394
394
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2 Answers
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Physics models rarely hint at ontological level. Throwing dice can be modelled as deterministic process, using initial conditions and equations of motion. Or it can be modelled as stochastic process, using assumptions about probability. Both are appropriate in different contexts. There is no proof of "the real" model.
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
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add a comment |
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Look up Diaconis's work on flipping coins. While it is technically deterministic, what happens is that extremely small changes in the initial conditions flip the outcome. The same would be true of dice. When you shake them in your hand and throw, small changes would give different outcomes. What makes it seem random is that we can't control our hands well enough to reproduce exactly the same throw (although some people are able to throw dice without making them tumble).
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
Physics models rarely hint at ontological level. Throwing dice can be modelled as deterministic process, using initial conditions and equations of motion. Or it can be modelled as stochastic process, using assumptions about probability. Both are appropriate in different contexts. There is no proof of "the real" model.
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Physics models rarely hint at ontological level. Throwing dice can be modelled as deterministic process, using initial conditions and equations of motion. Or it can be modelled as stochastic process, using assumptions about probability. Both are appropriate in different contexts. There is no proof of "the real" model.
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Physics models rarely hint at ontological level. Throwing dice can be modelled as deterministic process, using initial conditions and equations of motion. Or it can be modelled as stochastic process, using assumptions about probability. Both are appropriate in different contexts. There is no proof of "the real" model.
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
$endgroup$
Physics models rarely hint at ontological level. Throwing dice can be modelled as deterministic process, using initial conditions and equations of motion. Or it can be modelled as stochastic process, using assumptions about probability. Both are appropriate in different contexts. There is no proof of "the real" model.
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
answered 3 hours ago
Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský
16.3k1441
16.3k1441
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Look up Diaconis's work on flipping coins. While it is technically deterministic, what happens is that extremely small changes in the initial conditions flip the outcome. The same would be true of dice. When you shake them in your hand and throw, small changes would give different outcomes. What makes it seem random is that we can't control our hands well enough to reproduce exactly the same throw (although some people are able to throw dice without making them tumble).
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Look up Diaconis's work on flipping coins. While it is technically deterministic, what happens is that extremely small changes in the initial conditions flip the outcome. The same would be true of dice. When you shake them in your hand and throw, small changes would give different outcomes. What makes it seem random is that we can't control our hands well enough to reproduce exactly the same throw (although some people are able to throw dice without making them tumble).
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Look up Diaconis's work on flipping coins. While it is technically deterministic, what happens is that extremely small changes in the initial conditions flip the outcome. The same would be true of dice. When you shake them in your hand and throw, small changes would give different outcomes. What makes it seem random is that we can't control our hands well enough to reproduce exactly the same throw (although some people are able to throw dice without making them tumble).
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
$endgroup$
Look up Diaconis's work on flipping coins. While it is technically deterministic, what happens is that extremely small changes in the initial conditions flip the outcome. The same would be true of dice. When you shake them in your hand and throw, small changes would give different outcomes. What makes it seem random is that we can't control our hands well enough to reproduce exactly the same throw (although some people are able to throw dice without making them tumble).
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
answered 1 hour ago
HiddenBabelHiddenBabel
1,117313
1,117313
add a comment |
add a comment |
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