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How to Practice After Stream Entry as Opposed to Before?


How does stream entry occur?Is stream entry an unmistakeable experience?Queen Mallika story and stream entryCan you attain stream entry without meditation?How common is stream entry?Does Zen have a concept similar to stream entry?Is stream entry in 20 or 30 years of practice realistic?Ego death and stream entry is it the same thing?How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?How to recognize stream entry?













1















I follow the notion that when the false view of an independent, permanent "self" is annihilated for the first time this is Stream Entry. The Dharma no long is merely a question mark, and it's not dependent on rituals, or merely following rules. These first three fetters can't continue in the face of such an experience.



But how is the practice after Stream Entry different that before?





"In Buddhism, a sotāpanna (Pali), śrotāpanna (Sanskrit; Chinese: 入流; pinyin: rùliú, Tibetan: རྒྱུན་ཞུགས་, Wylie: rgyun zhugs), "stream-winner", or "stream-entrant" is a person who has seen the Dharma and consequently, has dropped the first three fetters (saŋyojana) that bind a being to rebirth, namely self-view (sakkāya-ditthi), clinging to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa), and skeptical indecision (Vicikitsa).



The word sotāpanna literally means "one who entered (āpanna) the stream (sota)", after a metaphor which calls the noble eightfold path a stream which leads to nibbāna. Entering the stream (sotāpatti) is the first of the four stages of enlightenment."



-- Sotāpanna (wikipedia)




Also see Agataphala Mahānāma Sutta (A 6.10) -- The Discourse on Mahānāma (on the fruition-attainer)










share|improve this question
























  • Hi Eric! I asked a similar question a while ago on the DhammaWheel forum. You may like to take a look at it: dhammawheel.com/…

    – Brian Díaz Flores
    2 hours ago















1















I follow the notion that when the false view of an independent, permanent "self" is annihilated for the first time this is Stream Entry. The Dharma no long is merely a question mark, and it's not dependent on rituals, or merely following rules. These first three fetters can't continue in the face of such an experience.



But how is the practice after Stream Entry different that before?





"In Buddhism, a sotāpanna (Pali), śrotāpanna (Sanskrit; Chinese: 入流; pinyin: rùliú, Tibetan: རྒྱུན་ཞུགས་, Wylie: rgyun zhugs), "stream-winner", or "stream-entrant" is a person who has seen the Dharma and consequently, has dropped the first three fetters (saŋyojana) that bind a being to rebirth, namely self-view (sakkāya-ditthi), clinging to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa), and skeptical indecision (Vicikitsa).



The word sotāpanna literally means "one who entered (āpanna) the stream (sota)", after a metaphor which calls the noble eightfold path a stream which leads to nibbāna. Entering the stream (sotāpatti) is the first of the four stages of enlightenment."



-- Sotāpanna (wikipedia)




Also see Agataphala Mahānāma Sutta (A 6.10) -- The Discourse on Mahānāma (on the fruition-attainer)










share|improve this question
























  • Hi Eric! I asked a similar question a while ago on the DhammaWheel forum. You may like to take a look at it: dhammawheel.com/…

    – Brian Díaz Flores
    2 hours ago













1












1








1








I follow the notion that when the false view of an independent, permanent "self" is annihilated for the first time this is Stream Entry. The Dharma no long is merely a question mark, and it's not dependent on rituals, or merely following rules. These first three fetters can't continue in the face of such an experience.



But how is the practice after Stream Entry different that before?





"In Buddhism, a sotāpanna (Pali), śrotāpanna (Sanskrit; Chinese: 入流; pinyin: rùliú, Tibetan: རྒྱུན་ཞུགས་, Wylie: rgyun zhugs), "stream-winner", or "stream-entrant" is a person who has seen the Dharma and consequently, has dropped the first three fetters (saŋyojana) that bind a being to rebirth, namely self-view (sakkāya-ditthi), clinging to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa), and skeptical indecision (Vicikitsa).



The word sotāpanna literally means "one who entered (āpanna) the stream (sota)", after a metaphor which calls the noble eightfold path a stream which leads to nibbāna. Entering the stream (sotāpatti) is the first of the four stages of enlightenment."



-- Sotāpanna (wikipedia)




Also see Agataphala Mahānāma Sutta (A 6.10) -- The Discourse on Mahānāma (on the fruition-attainer)










share|improve this question
















I follow the notion that when the false view of an independent, permanent "self" is annihilated for the first time this is Stream Entry. The Dharma no long is merely a question mark, and it's not dependent on rituals, or merely following rules. These first three fetters can't continue in the face of such an experience.



But how is the practice after Stream Entry different that before?





"In Buddhism, a sotāpanna (Pali), śrotāpanna (Sanskrit; Chinese: 入流; pinyin: rùliú, Tibetan: རྒྱུན་ཞུགས་, Wylie: rgyun zhugs), "stream-winner", or "stream-entrant" is a person who has seen the Dharma and consequently, has dropped the first three fetters (saŋyojana) that bind a being to rebirth, namely self-view (sakkāya-ditthi), clinging to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa), and skeptical indecision (Vicikitsa).



The word sotāpanna literally means "one who entered (āpanna) the stream (sota)", after a metaphor which calls the noble eightfold path a stream which leads to nibbāna. Entering the stream (sotāpatti) is the first of the four stages of enlightenment."



-- Sotāpanna (wikipedia)




Also see Agataphala Mahānāma Sutta (A 6.10) -- The Discourse on Mahānāma (on the fruition-attainer)







personal-practice meditation-practicalities stream-entry fetters






share|improve this question















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edited 12 mins ago









ChrisW

31k42488




31k42488










asked 3 hours ago









brother ericbrother eric

75819




75819












  • Hi Eric! I asked a similar question a while ago on the DhammaWheel forum. You may like to take a look at it: dhammawheel.com/…

    – Brian Díaz Flores
    2 hours ago

















  • Hi Eric! I asked a similar question a while ago on the DhammaWheel forum. You may like to take a look at it: dhammawheel.com/…

    – Brian Díaz Flores
    2 hours ago
















Hi Eric! I asked a similar question a while ago on the DhammaWheel forum. You may like to take a look at it: dhammawheel.com/…

– Brian Díaz Flores
2 hours ago





Hi Eric! I asked a similar question a while ago on the DhammaWheel forum. You may like to take a look at it: dhammawheel.com/…

– Brian Díaz Flores
2 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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1














Not different. If one wishes, one has to do an effort to turn the Wheel of Dhamma, develop the eightfold Path, as before.



One who has reached such stage knows this, having lost all doubts in regard of the path.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



























    0














    "Stream-entry" requires three fetters to be cut, which include the fetter of doubt about the path and the fetter of identity-view.



    Also, the Pali suttas define the both "sakkāya" (sat + kāya; "existent body/group" or "identity") & dukkha and the arising of identity & dukkha the same way, namely:




    Pañca upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo. These five grasped aggregates are identity. MN 44



    Saṃkhittena pañcupādānakkhandhā dukkhā. In brief, the five grasped aggregates are suffering. SN 56.11



    The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual
    pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This is the
    origination of self-identification. MN 44



    Now this is the noble truth of the origin of suffering. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight,
    relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure,
    craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. SN 56.11




    "Sakkāyadiṭṭhi" is to regard/view the five aggregates as "self", as follows:




    How does identity view come about?



    Kathaṃ sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



    It’s when an uneducated ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones.
    They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in
    the teaching of the good persons.



    They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form.



    They regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in
    consciousness.



    That’s how identity view comes about.



    Evaṃ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



    MN 44




    It follows, for stream-entry to occur, two experiences must occur, namely:



    1. Seeing clearly "identity" is not a real permanently existent thing, which cuts the fetter of identity-view.


    2. Seeing clearly the ending of attachment to the aggregates (sakkaya) and the ending of identity view (sakkaya ditthi) ends dukkha, which cuts the fetter of doubt about the path.


    3. Therefore, at stream-entry, it is known without any doubt that "non-attachment" towards the five aggregates is the Path to Nibbana. Thus, whatever phenomena or experiences occur, such as "jhana", these experiences/phenomena are not attached to or regarded as being or connected to "self".


    If the ending of identity is experienced (such as by Sam Harris when taking LSD) but the correlated insight into the ending of dukkha is not experienced & maintained (such as by Sam Harris who, when not on drugs, promotes war & nuclear genocide) then stream-entry has not been attained.



    "Doubt" is not doubt about "anatta" ("not-self') but is doubt about "anatta ending dukkha". This is how fake gurus & fake dharma are known; when deeds do not equate to claimed realisations. When the fetter of "sakkaya ditthi" is cut, so are myriad unwholesome selfish deeds; because it is discerned abandoning "sakkaya" results in peace (Nibbana).






    share|improve this answer

























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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      active

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      1














      Not different. If one wishes, one has to do an effort to turn the Wheel of Dhamma, develop the eightfold Path, as before.



      One who has reached such stage knows this, having lost all doubts in regard of the path.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.
























        1














        Not different. If one wishes, one has to do an effort to turn the Wheel of Dhamma, develop the eightfold Path, as before.



        One who has reached such stage knows this, having lost all doubts in regard of the path.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          1












          1








          1







          Not different. If one wishes, one has to do an effort to turn the Wheel of Dhamma, develop the eightfold Path, as before.



          One who has reached such stage knows this, having lost all doubts in regard of the path.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.










          Not different. If one wishes, one has to do an effort to turn the Wheel of Dhamma, develop the eightfold Path, as before.



          One who has reached such stage knows this, having lost all doubts in regard of the path.







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer






          New contributor




          Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered 3 hours ago









          Samana JohannSamana Johann

          111




          111




          New contributor




          Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          Samana Johann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





















              0














              "Stream-entry" requires three fetters to be cut, which include the fetter of doubt about the path and the fetter of identity-view.



              Also, the Pali suttas define the both "sakkāya" (sat + kāya; "existent body/group" or "identity") & dukkha and the arising of identity & dukkha the same way, namely:




              Pañca upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo. These five grasped aggregates are identity. MN 44



              Saṃkhittena pañcupādānakkhandhā dukkhā. In brief, the five grasped aggregates are suffering. SN 56.11



              The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual
              pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This is the
              origination of self-identification. MN 44



              Now this is the noble truth of the origin of suffering. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight,
              relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure,
              craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. SN 56.11




              "Sakkāyadiṭṭhi" is to regard/view the five aggregates as "self", as follows:




              How does identity view come about?



              Kathaṃ sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



              It’s when an uneducated ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones.
              They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in
              the teaching of the good persons.



              They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form.



              They regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in
              consciousness.



              That’s how identity view comes about.



              Evaṃ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



              MN 44




              It follows, for stream-entry to occur, two experiences must occur, namely:



              1. Seeing clearly "identity" is not a real permanently existent thing, which cuts the fetter of identity-view.


              2. Seeing clearly the ending of attachment to the aggregates (sakkaya) and the ending of identity view (sakkaya ditthi) ends dukkha, which cuts the fetter of doubt about the path.


              3. Therefore, at stream-entry, it is known without any doubt that "non-attachment" towards the five aggregates is the Path to Nibbana. Thus, whatever phenomena or experiences occur, such as "jhana", these experiences/phenomena are not attached to or regarded as being or connected to "self".


              If the ending of identity is experienced (such as by Sam Harris when taking LSD) but the correlated insight into the ending of dukkha is not experienced & maintained (such as by Sam Harris who, when not on drugs, promotes war & nuclear genocide) then stream-entry has not been attained.



              "Doubt" is not doubt about "anatta" ("not-self') but is doubt about "anatta ending dukkha". This is how fake gurus & fake dharma are known; when deeds do not equate to claimed realisations. When the fetter of "sakkaya ditthi" is cut, so are myriad unwholesome selfish deeds; because it is discerned abandoning "sakkaya" results in peace (Nibbana).






              share|improve this answer





























                0














                "Stream-entry" requires three fetters to be cut, which include the fetter of doubt about the path and the fetter of identity-view.



                Also, the Pali suttas define the both "sakkāya" (sat + kāya; "existent body/group" or "identity") & dukkha and the arising of identity & dukkha the same way, namely:




                Pañca upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo. These five grasped aggregates are identity. MN 44



                Saṃkhittena pañcupādānakkhandhā dukkhā. In brief, the five grasped aggregates are suffering. SN 56.11



                The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual
                pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This is the
                origination of self-identification. MN 44



                Now this is the noble truth of the origin of suffering. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight,
                relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure,
                craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. SN 56.11




                "Sakkāyadiṭṭhi" is to regard/view the five aggregates as "self", as follows:




                How does identity view come about?



                Kathaṃ sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



                It’s when an uneducated ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones.
                They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in
                the teaching of the good persons.



                They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form.



                They regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in
                consciousness.



                That’s how identity view comes about.



                Evaṃ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



                MN 44




                It follows, for stream-entry to occur, two experiences must occur, namely:



                1. Seeing clearly "identity" is not a real permanently existent thing, which cuts the fetter of identity-view.


                2. Seeing clearly the ending of attachment to the aggregates (sakkaya) and the ending of identity view (sakkaya ditthi) ends dukkha, which cuts the fetter of doubt about the path.


                3. Therefore, at stream-entry, it is known without any doubt that "non-attachment" towards the five aggregates is the Path to Nibbana. Thus, whatever phenomena or experiences occur, such as "jhana", these experiences/phenomena are not attached to or regarded as being or connected to "self".


                If the ending of identity is experienced (such as by Sam Harris when taking LSD) but the correlated insight into the ending of dukkha is not experienced & maintained (such as by Sam Harris who, when not on drugs, promotes war & nuclear genocide) then stream-entry has not been attained.



                "Doubt" is not doubt about "anatta" ("not-self') but is doubt about "anatta ending dukkha". This is how fake gurus & fake dharma are known; when deeds do not equate to claimed realisations. When the fetter of "sakkaya ditthi" is cut, so are myriad unwholesome selfish deeds; because it is discerned abandoning "sakkaya" results in peace (Nibbana).






                share|improve this answer



























                  0












                  0








                  0







                  "Stream-entry" requires three fetters to be cut, which include the fetter of doubt about the path and the fetter of identity-view.



                  Also, the Pali suttas define the both "sakkāya" (sat + kāya; "existent body/group" or "identity") & dukkha and the arising of identity & dukkha the same way, namely:




                  Pañca upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo. These five grasped aggregates are identity. MN 44



                  Saṃkhittena pañcupādānakkhandhā dukkhā. In brief, the five grasped aggregates are suffering. SN 56.11



                  The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual
                  pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This is the
                  origination of self-identification. MN 44



                  Now this is the noble truth of the origin of suffering. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight,
                  relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure,
                  craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. SN 56.11




                  "Sakkāyadiṭṭhi" is to regard/view the five aggregates as "self", as follows:




                  How does identity view come about?



                  Kathaṃ sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



                  It’s when an uneducated ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones.
                  They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in
                  the teaching of the good persons.



                  They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form.



                  They regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in
                  consciousness.



                  That’s how identity view comes about.



                  Evaṃ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



                  MN 44




                  It follows, for stream-entry to occur, two experiences must occur, namely:



                  1. Seeing clearly "identity" is not a real permanently existent thing, which cuts the fetter of identity-view.


                  2. Seeing clearly the ending of attachment to the aggregates (sakkaya) and the ending of identity view (sakkaya ditthi) ends dukkha, which cuts the fetter of doubt about the path.


                  3. Therefore, at stream-entry, it is known without any doubt that "non-attachment" towards the five aggregates is the Path to Nibbana. Thus, whatever phenomena or experiences occur, such as "jhana", these experiences/phenomena are not attached to or regarded as being or connected to "self".


                  If the ending of identity is experienced (such as by Sam Harris when taking LSD) but the correlated insight into the ending of dukkha is not experienced & maintained (such as by Sam Harris who, when not on drugs, promotes war & nuclear genocide) then stream-entry has not been attained.



                  "Doubt" is not doubt about "anatta" ("not-self') but is doubt about "anatta ending dukkha". This is how fake gurus & fake dharma are known; when deeds do not equate to claimed realisations. When the fetter of "sakkaya ditthi" is cut, so are myriad unwholesome selfish deeds; because it is discerned abandoning "sakkaya" results in peace (Nibbana).






                  share|improve this answer















                  "Stream-entry" requires three fetters to be cut, which include the fetter of doubt about the path and the fetter of identity-view.



                  Also, the Pali suttas define the both "sakkāya" (sat + kāya; "existent body/group" or "identity") & dukkha and the arising of identity & dukkha the same way, namely:




                  Pañca upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo. These five grasped aggregates are identity. MN 44



                  Saṃkhittena pañcupādānakkhandhā dukkhā. In brief, the five grasped aggregates are suffering. SN 56.11



                  The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual
                  pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This is the
                  origination of self-identification. MN 44



                  Now this is the noble truth of the origin of suffering. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight,
                  relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure,
                  craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. SN 56.11




                  "Sakkāyadiṭṭhi" is to regard/view the five aggregates as "self", as follows:




                  How does identity view come about?



                  Kathaṃ sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



                  It’s when an uneducated ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones.
                  They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in
                  the teaching of the good persons.



                  They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form.



                  They regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in
                  consciousness.



                  That’s how identity view comes about.



                  Evaṃ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī



                  MN 44




                  It follows, for stream-entry to occur, two experiences must occur, namely:



                  1. Seeing clearly "identity" is not a real permanently existent thing, which cuts the fetter of identity-view.


                  2. Seeing clearly the ending of attachment to the aggregates (sakkaya) and the ending of identity view (sakkaya ditthi) ends dukkha, which cuts the fetter of doubt about the path.


                  3. Therefore, at stream-entry, it is known without any doubt that "non-attachment" towards the five aggregates is the Path to Nibbana. Thus, whatever phenomena or experiences occur, such as "jhana", these experiences/phenomena are not attached to or regarded as being or connected to "self".


                  If the ending of identity is experienced (such as by Sam Harris when taking LSD) but the correlated insight into the ending of dukkha is not experienced & maintained (such as by Sam Harris who, when not on drugs, promotes war & nuclear genocide) then stream-entry has not been attained.



                  "Doubt" is not doubt about "anatta" ("not-self') but is doubt about "anatta ending dukkha". This is how fake gurus & fake dharma are known; when deeds do not equate to claimed realisations. When the fetter of "sakkaya ditthi" is cut, so are myriad unwholesome selfish deeds; because it is discerned abandoning "sakkaya" results in peace (Nibbana).







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