What happens if R is not revealed by one of Lightning Network nodes? (Payment cancelation)Lightning network and lightweight clientsHow do “trustless third-party watchers” work in Lightning Network?How come the lightning network creators believe the fees will be zero?When running a Lightning Network hub, who pays the fees when a transaction has to be broadcast to the blockchain?Who pays the miner fees for the closing transaction of a payment channel?Routing in Bitcoin Lightning NetworkHow to “cash out” of the Lightning Network without closing channels?Can someone please explain how Lightning paths are working and what effect large centralized hubs have?Required conditions to be selected as intermediary node (Payment Service Provider) in Lightning Network?BOLT #3: Shouldn't timeout be included in the script of “Offered HTLC Outputs” for the local node?
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What happens if R is not revealed by one of Lightning Network nodes? (Payment cancelation)
Lightning network and lightweight clientsHow do “trustless third-party watchers” work in Lightning Network?How come the lightning network creators believe the fees will be zero?When running a Lightning Network hub, who pays the fees when a transaction has to be broadcast to the blockchain?Who pays the miner fees for the closing transaction of a payment channel?Routing in Bitcoin Lightning NetworkHow to “cash out” of the Lightning Network without closing channels?Can someone please explain how Lightning paths are working and what effect large centralized hubs have?Required conditions to be selected as intermediary node (Payment Service Provider) in Lightning Network?BOLT #3: Shouldn't timeout be included in the script of “Offered HTLC Outputs” for the local node?
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Let's say we have route of 3 hops A -> B -> C -> D (A pays D). And in the middle of payment (revealing secret R stage) node C disappear from network. In this case B will be not able to finalise payment because he don't know secret of hashlock.
I know that there is timelock, so most probably node B will need to start closing channel procedure (channel B -> C).
But what is happening with payment? Is it accepted/rejected/hanging? What is happening with A->B and C->D channels? Will they be hanging until situation with B->C is resolved? Or there is some kind of payment cancelation protocol?
lightning-network
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
add a comment
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Let's say we have route of 3 hops A -> B -> C -> D (A pays D). And in the middle of payment (revealing secret R stage) node C disappear from network. In this case B will be not able to finalise payment because he don't know secret of hashlock.
I know that there is timelock, so most probably node B will need to start closing channel procedure (channel B -> C).
But what is happening with payment? Is it accepted/rejected/hanging? What is happening with A->B and C->D channels? Will they be hanging until situation with B->C is resolved? Or there is some kind of payment cancelation protocol?
lightning-network
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
add a comment
|
Let's say we have route of 3 hops A -> B -> C -> D (A pays D). And in the middle of payment (revealing secret R stage) node C disappear from network. In this case B will be not able to finalise payment because he don't know secret of hashlock.
I know that there is timelock, so most probably node B will need to start closing channel procedure (channel B -> C).
But what is happening with payment? Is it accepted/rejected/hanging? What is happening with A->B and C->D channels? Will they be hanging until situation with B->C is resolved? Or there is some kind of payment cancelation protocol?
lightning-network
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
Let's say we have route of 3 hops A -> B -> C -> D (A pays D). And in the middle of payment (revealing secret R stage) node C disappear from network. In this case B will be not able to finalise payment because he don't know secret of hashlock.
I know that there is timelock, so most probably node B will need to start closing channel procedure (channel B -> C).
But what is happening with payment? Is it accepted/rejected/hanging? What is happening with A->B and C->D channels? Will they be hanging until situation with B->C is resolved? Or there is some kind of payment cancelation protocol?
lightning-network
lightning-network
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
JaroJaro
1063 bronze badges
1063 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
1 Answer
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The situation is less worse than you seem to assume. If node C disappears the channel A,B won't be affected. Also there is no direct need to affect the channel B, C and C, D. So most channels will stay open.
The payment process is a two stage process and it depends during which stage of the process node C disappears to see what happens and how nodes react.
First stage: setting up htlcs from A to D. If C disappears before the htlcs have reached C the onion /payment is cancelled. No channel will be closed. Otherwise the resolution of the second stage takes place.
Second stage: preimage is propagated. Node D might force close the channel to settle the htlc on chain. In that case B could also see the preimage on chain an settle off chain. C has time to come back and claim money from B. If C is away too long C will have lost money sich B will have won. If D has settled before C disappears C will not be incentivesed to disappear as C could not get Reimbursed by B.
So we see the only channel that might break in such a situation is the C,D channel. But in any cases only C can loose money / funds by disappearing. This C is Incentivised to stay online and be responsive
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
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1 Answer
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The situation is less worse than you seem to assume. If node C disappears the channel A,B won't be affected. Also there is no direct need to affect the channel B, C and C, D. So most channels will stay open.
The payment process is a two stage process and it depends during which stage of the process node C disappears to see what happens and how nodes react.
First stage: setting up htlcs from A to D. If C disappears before the htlcs have reached C the onion /payment is cancelled. No channel will be closed. Otherwise the resolution of the second stage takes place.
Second stage: preimage is propagated. Node D might force close the channel to settle the htlc on chain. In that case B could also see the preimage on chain an settle off chain. C has time to come back and claim money from B. If C is away too long C will have lost money sich B will have won. If D has settled before C disappears C will not be incentivesed to disappear as C could not get Reimbursed by B.
So we see the only channel that might break in such a situation is the C,D channel. But in any cases only C can loose money / funds by disappearing. This C is Incentivised to stay online and be responsive
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
add a comment
|
The situation is less worse than you seem to assume. If node C disappears the channel A,B won't be affected. Also there is no direct need to affect the channel B, C and C, D. So most channels will stay open.
The payment process is a two stage process and it depends during which stage of the process node C disappears to see what happens and how nodes react.
First stage: setting up htlcs from A to D. If C disappears before the htlcs have reached C the onion /payment is cancelled. No channel will be closed. Otherwise the resolution of the second stage takes place.
Second stage: preimage is propagated. Node D might force close the channel to settle the htlc on chain. In that case B could also see the preimage on chain an settle off chain. C has time to come back and claim money from B. If C is away too long C will have lost money sich B will have won. If D has settled before C disappears C will not be incentivesed to disappear as C could not get Reimbursed by B.
So we see the only channel that might break in such a situation is the C,D channel. But in any cases only C can loose money / funds by disappearing. This C is Incentivised to stay online and be responsive
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
add a comment
|
The situation is less worse than you seem to assume. If node C disappears the channel A,B won't be affected. Also there is no direct need to affect the channel B, C and C, D. So most channels will stay open.
The payment process is a two stage process and it depends during which stage of the process node C disappears to see what happens and how nodes react.
First stage: setting up htlcs from A to D. If C disappears before the htlcs have reached C the onion /payment is cancelled. No channel will be closed. Otherwise the resolution of the second stage takes place.
Second stage: preimage is propagated. Node D might force close the channel to settle the htlc on chain. In that case B could also see the preimage on chain an settle off chain. C has time to come back and claim money from B. If C is away too long C will have lost money sich B will have won. If D has settled before C disappears C will not be incentivesed to disappear as C could not get Reimbursed by B.
So we see the only channel that might break in such a situation is the C,D channel. But in any cases only C can loose money / funds by disappearing. This C is Incentivised to stay online and be responsive
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
The situation is less worse than you seem to assume. If node C disappears the channel A,B won't be affected. Also there is no direct need to affect the channel B, C and C, D. So most channels will stay open.
The payment process is a two stage process and it depends during which stage of the process node C disappears to see what happens and how nodes react.
First stage: setting up htlcs from A to D. If C disappears before the htlcs have reached C the onion /payment is cancelled. No channel will be closed. Otherwise the resolution of the second stage takes place.
Second stage: preimage is propagated. Node D might force close the channel to settle the htlc on chain. In that case B could also see the preimage on chain an settle off chain. C has time to come back and claim money from B. If C is away too long C will have lost money sich B will have won. If D has settled before C disappears C will not be incentivesed to disappear as C could not get Reimbursed by B.
So we see the only channel that might break in such a situation is the C,D channel. But in any cases only C can loose money / funds by disappearing. This C is Incentivised to stay online and be responsive
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
5,5582 silver badges19 bronze badges
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