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Does any politician honestly want a No Deal Brexit?
What's the point in holding a second Brexit referendum?Have any organisations said they will definitely benefit from a no-deal Brexit?Brexit - No Deal RejectionCan a Brexit deal be accepted after Brexit?What is a “confirmatory” referendum in the context of Brexit?What Brexit solution does the DUP want?Why is Boris Johnson visiting only Paris & Berlin if every member of the EU needs to agree on a withdrawal deal?What forms of redress are available if a government decides to act illegally by omission?Is it possible to have no customs union and a soft border?
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As a German, it seems to me that No Deal Brexit without preparations would hurt so much that it makes no sense to prefer it. That is so clear that it should be the case for any conceivable expectation for what happens.
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
But I would not understand that anybody honestly wants a No Deal Brexit as the result.
Again, I assume the results of No Deal without preparations are so bad in both short and long term in any conceivable future that it is bad in an objective way.
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself (Which may or may not be malicious)? Have any politicians publicly endorsed a no deal Brexit?
united-kingdom brexit
|
show 6 more comments
As a German, it seems to me that No Deal Brexit without preparations would hurt so much that it makes no sense to prefer it. That is so clear that it should be the case for any conceivable expectation for what happens.
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
But I would not understand that anybody honestly wants a No Deal Brexit as the result.
Again, I assume the results of No Deal without preparations are so bad in both short and long term in any conceivable future that it is bad in an objective way.
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself (Which may or may not be malicious)? Have any politicians publicly endorsed a no deal Brexit?
united-kingdom brexit
1
Voting to close as the answer requires telepathy.
– Roger
8 hours ago
4
@Roger One single politician which is for No Deal honestly would be enough to not need telepathy. For example: John Doe is for No Deal for the following malicious reasons.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
I think the malicious intent sentence at the end needs to go. That is the bit that is going to require mind reading, because they're not going to say that.
– Jontia
7 hours ago
3
@Jontia The malicious intentions could be known before, or otherwise obvious, so they do not need to say it. Also, there are intentions that are not seen as malicious by the person, but can be seen so for good reasons. Making a lot of money from it is not malicious. But betting on stock changes may seem more malicious.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit, then that's something objectively answerable but also a very trivial question. If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit but actually don't want it, or vice versa, then we can really only speculate about internal motivations.
– Giter
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
As a German, it seems to me that No Deal Brexit without preparations would hurt so much that it makes no sense to prefer it. That is so clear that it should be the case for any conceivable expectation for what happens.
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
But I would not understand that anybody honestly wants a No Deal Brexit as the result.
Again, I assume the results of No Deal without preparations are so bad in both short and long term in any conceivable future that it is bad in an objective way.
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself (Which may or may not be malicious)? Have any politicians publicly endorsed a no deal Brexit?
united-kingdom brexit
As a German, it seems to me that No Deal Brexit without preparations would hurt so much that it makes no sense to prefer it. That is so clear that it should be the case for any conceivable expectation for what happens.
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
But I would not understand that anybody honestly wants a No Deal Brexit as the result.
Again, I assume the results of No Deal without preparations are so bad in both short and long term in any conceivable future that it is bad in an objective way.
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself (Which may or may not be malicious)? Have any politicians publicly endorsed a no deal Brexit?
united-kingdom brexit
united-kingdom brexit
edited 4 hours ago
Volker Siegel
asked 9 hours ago
Volker SiegelVolker Siegel
8402 gold badges7 silver badges16 bronze badges
8402 gold badges7 silver badges16 bronze badges
1
Voting to close as the answer requires telepathy.
– Roger
8 hours ago
4
@Roger One single politician which is for No Deal honestly would be enough to not need telepathy. For example: John Doe is for No Deal for the following malicious reasons.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
I think the malicious intent sentence at the end needs to go. That is the bit that is going to require mind reading, because they're not going to say that.
– Jontia
7 hours ago
3
@Jontia The malicious intentions could be known before, or otherwise obvious, so they do not need to say it. Also, there are intentions that are not seen as malicious by the person, but can be seen so for good reasons. Making a lot of money from it is not malicious. But betting on stock changes may seem more malicious.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit, then that's something objectively answerable but also a very trivial question. If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit but actually don't want it, or vice versa, then we can really only speculate about internal motivations.
– Giter
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
1
Voting to close as the answer requires telepathy.
– Roger
8 hours ago
4
@Roger One single politician which is for No Deal honestly would be enough to not need telepathy. For example: John Doe is for No Deal for the following malicious reasons.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
I think the malicious intent sentence at the end needs to go. That is the bit that is going to require mind reading, because they're not going to say that.
– Jontia
7 hours ago
3
@Jontia The malicious intentions could be known before, or otherwise obvious, so they do not need to say it. Also, there are intentions that are not seen as malicious by the person, but can be seen so for good reasons. Making a lot of money from it is not malicious. But betting on stock changes may seem more malicious.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit, then that's something objectively answerable but also a very trivial question. If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit but actually don't want it, or vice versa, then we can really only speculate about internal motivations.
– Giter
7 hours ago
1
1
Voting to close as the answer requires telepathy.
– Roger
8 hours ago
Voting to close as the answer requires telepathy.
– Roger
8 hours ago
4
4
@Roger One single politician which is for No Deal honestly would be enough to not need telepathy. For example: John Doe is for No Deal for the following malicious reasons.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
@Roger One single politician which is for No Deal honestly would be enough to not need telepathy. For example: John Doe is for No Deal for the following malicious reasons.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
2
I think the malicious intent sentence at the end needs to go. That is the bit that is going to require mind reading, because they're not going to say that.
– Jontia
7 hours ago
I think the malicious intent sentence at the end needs to go. That is the bit that is going to require mind reading, because they're not going to say that.
– Jontia
7 hours ago
3
3
@Jontia The malicious intentions could be known before, or otherwise obvious, so they do not need to say it. Also, there are intentions that are not seen as malicious by the person, but can be seen so for good reasons. Making a lot of money from it is not malicious. But betting on stock changes may seem more malicious.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
@Jontia The malicious intentions could be known before, or otherwise obvious, so they do not need to say it. Also, there are intentions that are not seen as malicious by the person, but can be seen so for good reasons. Making a lot of money from it is not malicious. But betting on stock changes may seem more malicious.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
2
If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit, then that's something objectively answerable but also a very trivial question. If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit but actually don't want it, or vice versa, then we can really only speculate about internal motivations.
– Giter
7 hours ago
If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit, then that's something objectively answerable but also a very trivial question. If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit but actually don't want it, or vice versa, then we can really only speculate about internal motivations.
– Giter
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
Nigel Farage wants a no-deal exit. Though he's now calling it a clean break.
He tweeted: “No British Government could ever accept Germany telling us that part of the UK has to stay in the EU.
“The choice now is clear: A clean break Brexit, or stay in a new militarised empire.
“Time to choose freedom.”
Presumably the name change is to avoid having to discuss no-deal documents such as Operation Yellowhammer
add a comment
|
There are various reasons to prefer an exit without a deal. They can be broadly divided into ideological reasons, and pragmatic reasons.
Pragmatic Reasons
It is possible to make money from the decline of an economy. By shorting sterling and shares in UK businesses, some people could enrich themselves. There are also those who seek to use the divergence from European standards to roll back the rights and protections of workers, and to produce goods more cheaply. They are betting that the damage done by a no deal brexit would be less than the opportunities created by this divergence in standards and regulation. Some people also believe (correctly or incorrectly) that Britain will be in a better negotiating position once it has left the EU, so they support a sort of "no deal for now". In the same vein, some people simply think the economic damage is overstated, and that Britain will flourish under such conditions.
Ideological Reasons
There is a contingent in the UK that sincerely believes that, given the result of the 2016 referendum, the country has a moral obligation to leave the EU as soon as possible. If one also believes that staying in the single market or customs union wouldn't really be leaving, and that any potential deal which divides the UK in any way is unacceptable, there are really no options other than leaving without a deal. Their belief really is that despite the economic damage, to preserve faith in democracy and the Union, we must leave.
Of course, all these reasons can be mixed and matched and used to justify one another - but it is certain there are both malicious and benign reasons to support this position. It is therefore difficult to say with any certainty whether any of the politicians advocating for this course of action (such as Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and many others) have malicious intentions. One can certainly accuse them of that, but they have many good justifications with which to defend themselves, and without reading their minds, we cannot say whether they are telling the truth. What we do have are their public statements, which naturally skew toward the arguments that are politically acceptable.
1
The point that it is the strictly democratic thing to do is interesting.
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
2
I'd call it nonsense rather than interesting, but in any case this while laying out some reasons why someone may want no-deal it doesn't actually name any names, which was the question.
– Jontia
8 hours ago
@Jontia in British English, "interesting" and "nonsense" are often synonyms.
– alephzero
3 mins ago
add a comment
|
I think Boris Johnson definitely wants a No Deal Brexit:
this is the right way to release economic potential of the whole country.
Also, for example, Sir Bill Cash may also think so.
In fact, there is definitely some political power, and, then, some amount of people, in the UK, who prefer No Deal Brexit. When voting on a referendum, I think, that, at least, some of those, who vote for the Brexit, definitely wanted a no-deal (or UK-formed-EU-accepted deal, which is, in fact, the same)
Is it for a malicious intent? With the honest but secret intention to harm the UK? (It is not known, of course - but are there any speculations?)
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
I don't think so, @VolkerSiegel, really. They may want to be more integrated with the US that EU (and some trade agreements are done already, it was in media), or just want a UK-formed deal and nothing more. But I'm sure, that such high establishment cannot want to harm the UK. They may or may not mistake about benefits, and that's all.
– user2501323
8 hours ago
1
You should add some quotes from your links
– Machavity
8 hours ago
@Machavity, sure
– user2501323
8 hours ago
I think Boris Johnson wants to appear to want a no-deal brexit
– JCRM
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Yes, President Trump of the United States.
According to Politico's US would ‘enthusiastically’ back no-deal Brexit, Trump envoy says:
America would "enthusiastically" support a no-deal Brexit, U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton said on Monday during a visit to London.
“If that’s the decision of the British government, we will support it enthusiastically, and that’s what I’m trying to convey," Bolton told reporters on the first day of his two-day visit to the British capital, according to the Guardian. "We’re with you, we’re with you."
He said the U.S. would consider striking sector-specific deals ahead of a full-scale trade pact.
“The ultimate end result is a comprehensive trade agreement covering all trading goods and services,” Bolton said. “But to get to that you could do it sector by sector, and you can do it in a modular fashion. In other words, you can carve out some areas where it might be possible to reach a bilateral agreement very quickly, very straightforwardly."
Bolton also took aim at Brussels, saying: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. There was a vote — everyone knew what the issues were. It is hard to imagine that anyone in this country did not know what was at stake. The result is the way it was. That’s democracy.”
Trump has previously said in an interview with Piers Morgan (before the first extension):
So we are going to make a deal with the UK, that will be great. As you know, somewhat restricted. Because of Brexit you have a two year restriction. And when that restriction is up we're going to be your great trading partner. It's a tough restriction to have. You know for a couple of years, you have very strong lack of being able to do things.
While he didn't mention no-deal specifically here, it's implied that the UK would be able to make trade deals which it is not the case when the UK takes on the EU's common external tariff. From the Institute of Government:
Accepting the EU’s common external tariff would also constrain the UK’s ability to strike new trade deals and require the UK to comply with substantial numbers of EU products regulations.
With respect to your question here:
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself?
There is indication that the Trump administration does prefer a no-deal compared to a deal in which the UK remains very aligned to the EU to the extent that it cannot make Free Trade Agreements with the United States. After all, the president has mentioned doing an FTA quite a lot:
Great discussion with Prime Minister @BorisJohnson today. We talked about Brexit and how we can move rapidly on a US-UK free trade deal. I look forward to meeting with Boris this weekend, at the @G7, in France!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163600519467798529
At a Press Conference in New York - September 25, 2019
We advanced our values greatly and made clear to everyone that the United States will always defend our citizens to promote prosperity. I met with Prime Minister Boris Johnson, at length, of the United Kingdom, continuing our discussions on a magnificent, new bilateral trade deal. So we'll see what happens with respect to Brexit, but I suspect we'll have a fantastic deal with the UK. It should be much bigger than it has been over the last number of years.
1
Much as lions want gazelles to separate themselves from the herd.
– Rupert Morrish
1 hour ago
2
@RupertMorrish you can't really blame a lion for eating, right?
– JJJ
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Leaving aside those who might actually believe no-deal Brexit would not be bad in terms of economics, support from the rest can probably best be summarized by Boris Johnson's two words "fuck business".
People make all sorts of trade-offs. The BBC had a fairly long video segment on a small business owner (in the fishing export industry) who voted for Brexit but against her direct economic interest. When the segment was filmed she was still not ready with all the paperwork needed to trade with the EU after Brexit, and there were doubts she would even qualify under the new rules. (She had a single trailer.) Nevertheless, she said she did not regret her vote saying it was for her children's future, or something like that. (Alas I cannot find the link again; too much Brexit material on the BBC.)
Politicians who stand to gain popularity (with some segments of the population of course, not with all) from having achieved Brexit probably have an even easier job deciding than those business owners.
add a comment
|
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
As I understand it, many proponents of Brexit believe that the UK would be better off outside of the EU and that the UK would be able to negotiate a far more politically acceptable (to the conservatives) without the free movement of people.
Furthermore, many conservatives have stated that they believe that Brexit will hurt the EU far more than it will hurt the UK and that the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute.
Finally, my suspicion is that many of these last minute negotiations are intended to make it appear that the leavers are the "reasonable ones" while making the EU seem like the "bad guys".
Note: I'm using a lower case "c" to distinguish the people from the political party (which has an upper case "C").
2
"the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute" - well, that didn't happen back when "the last minute" was April 29th...
– F1Krazy
6 hours ago
1
The first paragraph is missing a word. A far more politically acceptable <something> without free movement of people.
– Jontia
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
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6 Answers
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6 Answers
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Nigel Farage wants a no-deal exit. Though he's now calling it a clean break.
He tweeted: “No British Government could ever accept Germany telling us that part of the UK has to stay in the EU.
“The choice now is clear: A clean break Brexit, or stay in a new militarised empire.
“Time to choose freedom.”
Presumably the name change is to avoid having to discuss no-deal documents such as Operation Yellowhammer
add a comment
|
Nigel Farage wants a no-deal exit. Though he's now calling it a clean break.
He tweeted: “No British Government could ever accept Germany telling us that part of the UK has to stay in the EU.
“The choice now is clear: A clean break Brexit, or stay in a new militarised empire.
“Time to choose freedom.”
Presumably the name change is to avoid having to discuss no-deal documents such as Operation Yellowhammer
add a comment
|
Nigel Farage wants a no-deal exit. Though he's now calling it a clean break.
He tweeted: “No British Government could ever accept Germany telling us that part of the UK has to stay in the EU.
“The choice now is clear: A clean break Brexit, or stay in a new militarised empire.
“Time to choose freedom.”
Presumably the name change is to avoid having to discuss no-deal documents such as Operation Yellowhammer
Nigel Farage wants a no-deal exit. Though he's now calling it a clean break.
He tweeted: “No British Government could ever accept Germany telling us that part of the UK has to stay in the EU.
“The choice now is clear: A clean break Brexit, or stay in a new militarised empire.
“Time to choose freedom.”
Presumably the name change is to avoid having to discuss no-deal documents such as Operation Yellowhammer
answered 8 hours ago
JontiaJontia
8,3112 gold badges32 silver badges58 bronze badges
8,3112 gold badges32 silver badges58 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
There are various reasons to prefer an exit without a deal. They can be broadly divided into ideological reasons, and pragmatic reasons.
Pragmatic Reasons
It is possible to make money from the decline of an economy. By shorting sterling and shares in UK businesses, some people could enrich themselves. There are also those who seek to use the divergence from European standards to roll back the rights and protections of workers, and to produce goods more cheaply. They are betting that the damage done by a no deal brexit would be less than the opportunities created by this divergence in standards and regulation. Some people also believe (correctly or incorrectly) that Britain will be in a better negotiating position once it has left the EU, so they support a sort of "no deal for now". In the same vein, some people simply think the economic damage is overstated, and that Britain will flourish under such conditions.
Ideological Reasons
There is a contingent in the UK that sincerely believes that, given the result of the 2016 referendum, the country has a moral obligation to leave the EU as soon as possible. If one also believes that staying in the single market or customs union wouldn't really be leaving, and that any potential deal which divides the UK in any way is unacceptable, there are really no options other than leaving without a deal. Their belief really is that despite the economic damage, to preserve faith in democracy and the Union, we must leave.
Of course, all these reasons can be mixed and matched and used to justify one another - but it is certain there are both malicious and benign reasons to support this position. It is therefore difficult to say with any certainty whether any of the politicians advocating for this course of action (such as Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and many others) have malicious intentions. One can certainly accuse them of that, but they have many good justifications with which to defend themselves, and without reading their minds, we cannot say whether they are telling the truth. What we do have are their public statements, which naturally skew toward the arguments that are politically acceptable.
1
The point that it is the strictly democratic thing to do is interesting.
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
2
I'd call it nonsense rather than interesting, but in any case this while laying out some reasons why someone may want no-deal it doesn't actually name any names, which was the question.
– Jontia
8 hours ago
@Jontia in British English, "interesting" and "nonsense" are often synonyms.
– alephzero
3 mins ago
add a comment
|
There are various reasons to prefer an exit without a deal. They can be broadly divided into ideological reasons, and pragmatic reasons.
Pragmatic Reasons
It is possible to make money from the decline of an economy. By shorting sterling and shares in UK businesses, some people could enrich themselves. There are also those who seek to use the divergence from European standards to roll back the rights and protections of workers, and to produce goods more cheaply. They are betting that the damage done by a no deal brexit would be less than the opportunities created by this divergence in standards and regulation. Some people also believe (correctly or incorrectly) that Britain will be in a better negotiating position once it has left the EU, so they support a sort of "no deal for now". In the same vein, some people simply think the economic damage is overstated, and that Britain will flourish under such conditions.
Ideological Reasons
There is a contingent in the UK that sincerely believes that, given the result of the 2016 referendum, the country has a moral obligation to leave the EU as soon as possible. If one also believes that staying in the single market or customs union wouldn't really be leaving, and that any potential deal which divides the UK in any way is unacceptable, there are really no options other than leaving without a deal. Their belief really is that despite the economic damage, to preserve faith in democracy and the Union, we must leave.
Of course, all these reasons can be mixed and matched and used to justify one another - but it is certain there are both malicious and benign reasons to support this position. It is therefore difficult to say with any certainty whether any of the politicians advocating for this course of action (such as Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and many others) have malicious intentions. One can certainly accuse them of that, but they have many good justifications with which to defend themselves, and without reading their minds, we cannot say whether they are telling the truth. What we do have are their public statements, which naturally skew toward the arguments that are politically acceptable.
1
The point that it is the strictly democratic thing to do is interesting.
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
2
I'd call it nonsense rather than interesting, but in any case this while laying out some reasons why someone may want no-deal it doesn't actually name any names, which was the question.
– Jontia
8 hours ago
@Jontia in British English, "interesting" and "nonsense" are often synonyms.
– alephzero
3 mins ago
add a comment
|
There are various reasons to prefer an exit without a deal. They can be broadly divided into ideological reasons, and pragmatic reasons.
Pragmatic Reasons
It is possible to make money from the decline of an economy. By shorting sterling and shares in UK businesses, some people could enrich themselves. There are also those who seek to use the divergence from European standards to roll back the rights and protections of workers, and to produce goods more cheaply. They are betting that the damage done by a no deal brexit would be less than the opportunities created by this divergence in standards and regulation. Some people also believe (correctly or incorrectly) that Britain will be in a better negotiating position once it has left the EU, so they support a sort of "no deal for now". In the same vein, some people simply think the economic damage is overstated, and that Britain will flourish under such conditions.
Ideological Reasons
There is a contingent in the UK that sincerely believes that, given the result of the 2016 referendum, the country has a moral obligation to leave the EU as soon as possible. If one also believes that staying in the single market or customs union wouldn't really be leaving, and that any potential deal which divides the UK in any way is unacceptable, there are really no options other than leaving without a deal. Their belief really is that despite the economic damage, to preserve faith in democracy and the Union, we must leave.
Of course, all these reasons can be mixed and matched and used to justify one another - but it is certain there are both malicious and benign reasons to support this position. It is therefore difficult to say with any certainty whether any of the politicians advocating for this course of action (such as Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and many others) have malicious intentions. One can certainly accuse them of that, but they have many good justifications with which to defend themselves, and without reading their minds, we cannot say whether they are telling the truth. What we do have are their public statements, which naturally skew toward the arguments that are politically acceptable.
There are various reasons to prefer an exit without a deal. They can be broadly divided into ideological reasons, and pragmatic reasons.
Pragmatic Reasons
It is possible to make money from the decline of an economy. By shorting sterling and shares in UK businesses, some people could enrich themselves. There are also those who seek to use the divergence from European standards to roll back the rights and protections of workers, and to produce goods more cheaply. They are betting that the damage done by a no deal brexit would be less than the opportunities created by this divergence in standards and regulation. Some people also believe (correctly or incorrectly) that Britain will be in a better negotiating position once it has left the EU, so they support a sort of "no deal for now". In the same vein, some people simply think the economic damage is overstated, and that Britain will flourish under such conditions.
Ideological Reasons
There is a contingent in the UK that sincerely believes that, given the result of the 2016 referendum, the country has a moral obligation to leave the EU as soon as possible. If one also believes that staying in the single market or customs union wouldn't really be leaving, and that any potential deal which divides the UK in any way is unacceptable, there are really no options other than leaving without a deal. Their belief really is that despite the economic damage, to preserve faith in democracy and the Union, we must leave.
Of course, all these reasons can be mixed and matched and used to justify one another - but it is certain there are both malicious and benign reasons to support this position. It is therefore difficult to say with any certainty whether any of the politicians advocating for this course of action (such as Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and many others) have malicious intentions. One can certainly accuse them of that, but they have many good justifications with which to defend themselves, and without reading their minds, we cannot say whether they are telling the truth. What we do have are their public statements, which naturally skew toward the arguments that are politically acceptable.
answered 8 hours ago
CoedRhyfelwrCoedRhyfelwr
3,7082 gold badges14 silver badges35 bronze badges
3,7082 gold badges14 silver badges35 bronze badges
1
The point that it is the strictly democratic thing to do is interesting.
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
2
I'd call it nonsense rather than interesting, but in any case this while laying out some reasons why someone may want no-deal it doesn't actually name any names, which was the question.
– Jontia
8 hours ago
@Jontia in British English, "interesting" and "nonsense" are often synonyms.
– alephzero
3 mins ago
add a comment
|
1
The point that it is the strictly democratic thing to do is interesting.
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
2
I'd call it nonsense rather than interesting, but in any case this while laying out some reasons why someone may want no-deal it doesn't actually name any names, which was the question.
– Jontia
8 hours ago
@Jontia in British English, "interesting" and "nonsense" are often synonyms.
– alephzero
3 mins ago
1
1
The point that it is the strictly democratic thing to do is interesting.
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
The point that it is the strictly democratic thing to do is interesting.
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
2
2
I'd call it nonsense rather than interesting, but in any case this while laying out some reasons why someone may want no-deal it doesn't actually name any names, which was the question.
– Jontia
8 hours ago
I'd call it nonsense rather than interesting, but in any case this while laying out some reasons why someone may want no-deal it doesn't actually name any names, which was the question.
– Jontia
8 hours ago
@Jontia in British English, "interesting" and "nonsense" are often synonyms.
– alephzero
3 mins ago
@Jontia in British English, "interesting" and "nonsense" are often synonyms.
– alephzero
3 mins ago
add a comment
|
I think Boris Johnson definitely wants a No Deal Brexit:
this is the right way to release economic potential of the whole country.
Also, for example, Sir Bill Cash may also think so.
In fact, there is definitely some political power, and, then, some amount of people, in the UK, who prefer No Deal Brexit. When voting on a referendum, I think, that, at least, some of those, who vote for the Brexit, definitely wanted a no-deal (or UK-formed-EU-accepted deal, which is, in fact, the same)
Is it for a malicious intent? With the honest but secret intention to harm the UK? (It is not known, of course - but are there any speculations?)
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
I don't think so, @VolkerSiegel, really. They may want to be more integrated with the US that EU (and some trade agreements are done already, it was in media), or just want a UK-formed deal and nothing more. But I'm sure, that such high establishment cannot want to harm the UK. They may or may not mistake about benefits, and that's all.
– user2501323
8 hours ago
1
You should add some quotes from your links
– Machavity
8 hours ago
@Machavity, sure
– user2501323
8 hours ago
I think Boris Johnson wants to appear to want a no-deal brexit
– JCRM
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
I think Boris Johnson definitely wants a No Deal Brexit:
this is the right way to release economic potential of the whole country.
Also, for example, Sir Bill Cash may also think so.
In fact, there is definitely some political power, and, then, some amount of people, in the UK, who prefer No Deal Brexit. When voting on a referendum, I think, that, at least, some of those, who vote for the Brexit, definitely wanted a no-deal (or UK-formed-EU-accepted deal, which is, in fact, the same)
Is it for a malicious intent? With the honest but secret intention to harm the UK? (It is not known, of course - but are there any speculations?)
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
I don't think so, @VolkerSiegel, really. They may want to be more integrated with the US that EU (and some trade agreements are done already, it was in media), or just want a UK-formed deal and nothing more. But I'm sure, that such high establishment cannot want to harm the UK. They may or may not mistake about benefits, and that's all.
– user2501323
8 hours ago
1
You should add some quotes from your links
– Machavity
8 hours ago
@Machavity, sure
– user2501323
8 hours ago
I think Boris Johnson wants to appear to want a no-deal brexit
– JCRM
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
I think Boris Johnson definitely wants a No Deal Brexit:
this is the right way to release economic potential of the whole country.
Also, for example, Sir Bill Cash may also think so.
In fact, there is definitely some political power, and, then, some amount of people, in the UK, who prefer No Deal Brexit. When voting on a referendum, I think, that, at least, some of those, who vote for the Brexit, definitely wanted a no-deal (or UK-formed-EU-accepted deal, which is, in fact, the same)
I think Boris Johnson definitely wants a No Deal Brexit:
this is the right way to release economic potential of the whole country.
Also, for example, Sir Bill Cash may also think so.
In fact, there is definitely some political power, and, then, some amount of people, in the UK, who prefer No Deal Brexit. When voting on a referendum, I think, that, at least, some of those, who vote for the Brexit, definitely wanted a no-deal (or UK-formed-EU-accepted deal, which is, in fact, the same)
edited 8 hours ago
Machavity
19.9k7 gold badges64 silver badges99 bronze badges
19.9k7 gold badges64 silver badges99 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
user2501323user2501323
2,04410 silver badges31 bronze badges
2,04410 silver badges31 bronze badges
Is it for a malicious intent? With the honest but secret intention to harm the UK? (It is not known, of course - but are there any speculations?)
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
I don't think so, @VolkerSiegel, really. They may want to be more integrated with the US that EU (and some trade agreements are done already, it was in media), or just want a UK-formed deal and nothing more. But I'm sure, that such high establishment cannot want to harm the UK. They may or may not mistake about benefits, and that's all.
– user2501323
8 hours ago
1
You should add some quotes from your links
– Machavity
8 hours ago
@Machavity, sure
– user2501323
8 hours ago
I think Boris Johnson wants to appear to want a no-deal brexit
– JCRM
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Is it for a malicious intent? With the honest but secret intention to harm the UK? (It is not known, of course - but are there any speculations?)
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
I don't think so, @VolkerSiegel, really. They may want to be more integrated with the US that EU (and some trade agreements are done already, it was in media), or just want a UK-formed deal and nothing more. But I'm sure, that such high establishment cannot want to harm the UK. They may or may not mistake about benefits, and that's all.
– user2501323
8 hours ago
1
You should add some quotes from your links
– Machavity
8 hours ago
@Machavity, sure
– user2501323
8 hours ago
I think Boris Johnson wants to appear to want a no-deal brexit
– JCRM
8 hours ago
Is it for a malicious intent? With the honest but secret intention to harm the UK? (It is not known, of course - but are there any speculations?)
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
Is it for a malicious intent? With the honest but secret intention to harm the UK? (It is not known, of course - but are there any speculations?)
– Volker Siegel
8 hours ago
I don't think so, @VolkerSiegel, really. They may want to be more integrated with the US that EU (and some trade agreements are done already, it was in media), or just want a UK-formed deal and nothing more. But I'm sure, that such high establishment cannot want to harm the UK. They may or may not mistake about benefits, and that's all.
– user2501323
8 hours ago
I don't think so, @VolkerSiegel, really. They may want to be more integrated with the US that EU (and some trade agreements are done already, it was in media), or just want a UK-formed deal and nothing more. But I'm sure, that such high establishment cannot want to harm the UK. They may or may not mistake about benefits, and that's all.
– user2501323
8 hours ago
1
1
You should add some quotes from your links
– Machavity
8 hours ago
You should add some quotes from your links
– Machavity
8 hours ago
@Machavity, sure
– user2501323
8 hours ago
@Machavity, sure
– user2501323
8 hours ago
I think Boris Johnson wants to appear to want a no-deal brexit
– JCRM
8 hours ago
I think Boris Johnson wants to appear to want a no-deal brexit
– JCRM
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Yes, President Trump of the United States.
According to Politico's US would ‘enthusiastically’ back no-deal Brexit, Trump envoy says:
America would "enthusiastically" support a no-deal Brexit, U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton said on Monday during a visit to London.
“If that’s the decision of the British government, we will support it enthusiastically, and that’s what I’m trying to convey," Bolton told reporters on the first day of his two-day visit to the British capital, according to the Guardian. "We’re with you, we’re with you."
He said the U.S. would consider striking sector-specific deals ahead of a full-scale trade pact.
“The ultimate end result is a comprehensive trade agreement covering all trading goods and services,” Bolton said. “But to get to that you could do it sector by sector, and you can do it in a modular fashion. In other words, you can carve out some areas where it might be possible to reach a bilateral agreement very quickly, very straightforwardly."
Bolton also took aim at Brussels, saying: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. There was a vote — everyone knew what the issues were. It is hard to imagine that anyone in this country did not know what was at stake. The result is the way it was. That’s democracy.”
Trump has previously said in an interview with Piers Morgan (before the first extension):
So we are going to make a deal with the UK, that will be great. As you know, somewhat restricted. Because of Brexit you have a two year restriction. And when that restriction is up we're going to be your great trading partner. It's a tough restriction to have. You know for a couple of years, you have very strong lack of being able to do things.
While he didn't mention no-deal specifically here, it's implied that the UK would be able to make trade deals which it is not the case when the UK takes on the EU's common external tariff. From the Institute of Government:
Accepting the EU’s common external tariff would also constrain the UK’s ability to strike new trade deals and require the UK to comply with substantial numbers of EU products regulations.
With respect to your question here:
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself?
There is indication that the Trump administration does prefer a no-deal compared to a deal in which the UK remains very aligned to the EU to the extent that it cannot make Free Trade Agreements with the United States. After all, the president has mentioned doing an FTA quite a lot:
Great discussion with Prime Minister @BorisJohnson today. We talked about Brexit and how we can move rapidly on a US-UK free trade deal. I look forward to meeting with Boris this weekend, at the @G7, in France!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163600519467798529
At a Press Conference in New York - September 25, 2019
We advanced our values greatly and made clear to everyone that the United States will always defend our citizens to promote prosperity. I met with Prime Minister Boris Johnson, at length, of the United Kingdom, continuing our discussions on a magnificent, new bilateral trade deal. So we'll see what happens with respect to Brexit, but I suspect we'll have a fantastic deal with the UK. It should be much bigger than it has been over the last number of years.
1
Much as lions want gazelles to separate themselves from the herd.
– Rupert Morrish
1 hour ago
2
@RupertMorrish you can't really blame a lion for eating, right?
– JJJ
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Yes, President Trump of the United States.
According to Politico's US would ‘enthusiastically’ back no-deal Brexit, Trump envoy says:
America would "enthusiastically" support a no-deal Brexit, U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton said on Monday during a visit to London.
“If that’s the decision of the British government, we will support it enthusiastically, and that’s what I’m trying to convey," Bolton told reporters on the first day of his two-day visit to the British capital, according to the Guardian. "We’re with you, we’re with you."
He said the U.S. would consider striking sector-specific deals ahead of a full-scale trade pact.
“The ultimate end result is a comprehensive trade agreement covering all trading goods and services,” Bolton said. “But to get to that you could do it sector by sector, and you can do it in a modular fashion. In other words, you can carve out some areas where it might be possible to reach a bilateral agreement very quickly, very straightforwardly."
Bolton also took aim at Brussels, saying: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. There was a vote — everyone knew what the issues were. It is hard to imagine that anyone in this country did not know what was at stake. The result is the way it was. That’s democracy.”
Trump has previously said in an interview with Piers Morgan (before the first extension):
So we are going to make a deal with the UK, that will be great. As you know, somewhat restricted. Because of Brexit you have a two year restriction. And when that restriction is up we're going to be your great trading partner. It's a tough restriction to have. You know for a couple of years, you have very strong lack of being able to do things.
While he didn't mention no-deal specifically here, it's implied that the UK would be able to make trade deals which it is not the case when the UK takes on the EU's common external tariff. From the Institute of Government:
Accepting the EU’s common external tariff would also constrain the UK’s ability to strike new trade deals and require the UK to comply with substantial numbers of EU products regulations.
With respect to your question here:
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself?
There is indication that the Trump administration does prefer a no-deal compared to a deal in which the UK remains very aligned to the EU to the extent that it cannot make Free Trade Agreements with the United States. After all, the president has mentioned doing an FTA quite a lot:
Great discussion with Prime Minister @BorisJohnson today. We talked about Brexit and how we can move rapidly on a US-UK free trade deal. I look forward to meeting with Boris this weekend, at the @G7, in France!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163600519467798529
At a Press Conference in New York - September 25, 2019
We advanced our values greatly and made clear to everyone that the United States will always defend our citizens to promote prosperity. I met with Prime Minister Boris Johnson, at length, of the United Kingdom, continuing our discussions on a magnificent, new bilateral trade deal. So we'll see what happens with respect to Brexit, but I suspect we'll have a fantastic deal with the UK. It should be much bigger than it has been over the last number of years.
1
Much as lions want gazelles to separate themselves from the herd.
– Rupert Morrish
1 hour ago
2
@RupertMorrish you can't really blame a lion for eating, right?
– JJJ
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Yes, President Trump of the United States.
According to Politico's US would ‘enthusiastically’ back no-deal Brexit, Trump envoy says:
America would "enthusiastically" support a no-deal Brexit, U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton said on Monday during a visit to London.
“If that’s the decision of the British government, we will support it enthusiastically, and that’s what I’m trying to convey," Bolton told reporters on the first day of his two-day visit to the British capital, according to the Guardian. "We’re with you, we’re with you."
He said the U.S. would consider striking sector-specific deals ahead of a full-scale trade pact.
“The ultimate end result is a comprehensive trade agreement covering all trading goods and services,” Bolton said. “But to get to that you could do it sector by sector, and you can do it in a modular fashion. In other words, you can carve out some areas where it might be possible to reach a bilateral agreement very quickly, very straightforwardly."
Bolton also took aim at Brussels, saying: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. There was a vote — everyone knew what the issues were. It is hard to imagine that anyone in this country did not know what was at stake. The result is the way it was. That’s democracy.”
Trump has previously said in an interview with Piers Morgan (before the first extension):
So we are going to make a deal with the UK, that will be great. As you know, somewhat restricted. Because of Brexit you have a two year restriction. And when that restriction is up we're going to be your great trading partner. It's a tough restriction to have. You know for a couple of years, you have very strong lack of being able to do things.
While he didn't mention no-deal specifically here, it's implied that the UK would be able to make trade deals which it is not the case when the UK takes on the EU's common external tariff. From the Institute of Government:
Accepting the EU’s common external tariff would also constrain the UK’s ability to strike new trade deals and require the UK to comply with substantial numbers of EU products regulations.
With respect to your question here:
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself?
There is indication that the Trump administration does prefer a no-deal compared to a deal in which the UK remains very aligned to the EU to the extent that it cannot make Free Trade Agreements with the United States. After all, the president has mentioned doing an FTA quite a lot:
Great discussion with Prime Minister @BorisJohnson today. We talked about Brexit and how we can move rapidly on a US-UK free trade deal. I look forward to meeting with Boris this weekend, at the @G7, in France!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163600519467798529
At a Press Conference in New York - September 25, 2019
We advanced our values greatly and made clear to everyone that the United States will always defend our citizens to promote prosperity. I met with Prime Minister Boris Johnson, at length, of the United Kingdom, continuing our discussions on a magnificent, new bilateral trade deal. So we'll see what happens with respect to Brexit, but I suspect we'll have a fantastic deal with the UK. It should be much bigger than it has been over the last number of years.
Yes, President Trump of the United States.
According to Politico's US would ‘enthusiastically’ back no-deal Brexit, Trump envoy says:
America would "enthusiastically" support a no-deal Brexit, U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton said on Monday during a visit to London.
“If that’s the decision of the British government, we will support it enthusiastically, and that’s what I’m trying to convey," Bolton told reporters on the first day of his two-day visit to the British capital, according to the Guardian. "We’re with you, we’re with you."
He said the U.S. would consider striking sector-specific deals ahead of a full-scale trade pact.
“The ultimate end result is a comprehensive trade agreement covering all trading goods and services,” Bolton said. “But to get to that you could do it sector by sector, and you can do it in a modular fashion. In other words, you can carve out some areas where it might be possible to reach a bilateral agreement very quickly, very straightforwardly."
Bolton also took aim at Brussels, saying: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. There was a vote — everyone knew what the issues were. It is hard to imagine that anyone in this country did not know what was at stake. The result is the way it was. That’s democracy.”
Trump has previously said in an interview with Piers Morgan (before the first extension):
So we are going to make a deal with the UK, that will be great. As you know, somewhat restricted. Because of Brexit you have a two year restriction. And when that restriction is up we're going to be your great trading partner. It's a tough restriction to have. You know for a couple of years, you have very strong lack of being able to do things.
While he didn't mention no-deal specifically here, it's implied that the UK would be able to make trade deals which it is not the case when the UK takes on the EU's common external tariff. From the Institute of Government:
Accepting the EU’s common external tariff would also constrain the UK’s ability to strike new trade deals and require the UK to comply with substantial numbers of EU products regulations.
With respect to your question here:
Are there participants expecting No Deal has a better outcome than remaining in the EU? Even if it is only better for the person itself?
There is indication that the Trump administration does prefer a no-deal compared to a deal in which the UK remains very aligned to the EU to the extent that it cannot make Free Trade Agreements with the United States. After all, the president has mentioned doing an FTA quite a lot:
Great discussion with Prime Minister @BorisJohnson today. We talked about Brexit and how we can move rapidly on a US-UK free trade deal. I look forward to meeting with Boris this weekend, at the @G7, in France!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163600519467798529
At a Press Conference in New York - September 25, 2019
We advanced our values greatly and made clear to everyone that the United States will always defend our citizens to promote prosperity. I met with Prime Minister Boris Johnson, at length, of the United Kingdom, continuing our discussions on a magnificent, new bilateral trade deal. So we'll see what happens with respect to Brexit, but I suspect we'll have a fantastic deal with the UK. It should be much bigger than it has been over the last number of years.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
JJJJJJ
14.6k5 gold badges44 silver badges90 bronze badges
14.6k5 gold badges44 silver badges90 bronze badges
1
Much as lions want gazelles to separate themselves from the herd.
– Rupert Morrish
1 hour ago
2
@RupertMorrish you can't really blame a lion for eating, right?
– JJJ
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
1
Much as lions want gazelles to separate themselves from the herd.
– Rupert Morrish
1 hour ago
2
@RupertMorrish you can't really blame a lion for eating, right?
– JJJ
1 hour ago
1
1
Much as lions want gazelles to separate themselves from the herd.
– Rupert Morrish
1 hour ago
Much as lions want gazelles to separate themselves from the herd.
– Rupert Morrish
1 hour ago
2
2
@RupertMorrish you can't really blame a lion for eating, right?
– JJJ
1 hour ago
@RupertMorrish you can't really blame a lion for eating, right?
– JJJ
1 hour ago
add a comment
|
Leaving aside those who might actually believe no-deal Brexit would not be bad in terms of economics, support from the rest can probably best be summarized by Boris Johnson's two words "fuck business".
People make all sorts of trade-offs. The BBC had a fairly long video segment on a small business owner (in the fishing export industry) who voted for Brexit but against her direct economic interest. When the segment was filmed she was still not ready with all the paperwork needed to trade with the EU after Brexit, and there were doubts she would even qualify under the new rules. (She had a single trailer.) Nevertheless, she said she did not regret her vote saying it was for her children's future, or something like that. (Alas I cannot find the link again; too much Brexit material on the BBC.)
Politicians who stand to gain popularity (with some segments of the population of course, not with all) from having achieved Brexit probably have an even easier job deciding than those business owners.
add a comment
|
Leaving aside those who might actually believe no-deal Brexit would not be bad in terms of economics, support from the rest can probably best be summarized by Boris Johnson's two words "fuck business".
People make all sorts of trade-offs. The BBC had a fairly long video segment on a small business owner (in the fishing export industry) who voted for Brexit but against her direct economic interest. When the segment was filmed she was still not ready with all the paperwork needed to trade with the EU after Brexit, and there were doubts she would even qualify under the new rules. (She had a single trailer.) Nevertheless, she said she did not regret her vote saying it was for her children's future, or something like that. (Alas I cannot find the link again; too much Brexit material on the BBC.)
Politicians who stand to gain popularity (with some segments of the population of course, not with all) from having achieved Brexit probably have an even easier job deciding than those business owners.
add a comment
|
Leaving aside those who might actually believe no-deal Brexit would not be bad in terms of economics, support from the rest can probably best be summarized by Boris Johnson's two words "fuck business".
People make all sorts of trade-offs. The BBC had a fairly long video segment on a small business owner (in the fishing export industry) who voted for Brexit but against her direct economic interest. When the segment was filmed she was still not ready with all the paperwork needed to trade with the EU after Brexit, and there were doubts she would even qualify under the new rules. (She had a single trailer.) Nevertheless, she said she did not regret her vote saying it was for her children's future, or something like that. (Alas I cannot find the link again; too much Brexit material on the BBC.)
Politicians who stand to gain popularity (with some segments of the population of course, not with all) from having achieved Brexit probably have an even easier job deciding than those business owners.
Leaving aside those who might actually believe no-deal Brexit would not be bad in terms of economics, support from the rest can probably best be summarized by Boris Johnson's two words "fuck business".
People make all sorts of trade-offs. The BBC had a fairly long video segment on a small business owner (in the fishing export industry) who voted for Brexit but against her direct economic interest. When the segment was filmed she was still not ready with all the paperwork needed to trade with the EU after Brexit, and there were doubts she would even qualify under the new rules. (She had a single trailer.) Nevertheless, she said she did not regret her vote saying it was for her children's future, or something like that. (Alas I cannot find the link again; too much Brexit material on the BBC.)
Politicians who stand to gain popularity (with some segments of the population of course, not with all) from having achieved Brexit probably have an even easier job deciding than those business owners.
answered 1 hour ago
FizzFizz
28.8k3 gold badges76 silver badges166 bronze badges
28.8k3 gold badges76 silver badges166 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
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It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
As I understand it, many proponents of Brexit believe that the UK would be better off outside of the EU and that the UK would be able to negotiate a far more politically acceptable (to the conservatives) without the free movement of people.
Furthermore, many conservatives have stated that they believe that Brexit will hurt the EU far more than it will hurt the UK and that the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute.
Finally, my suspicion is that many of these last minute negotiations are intended to make it appear that the leavers are the "reasonable ones" while making the EU seem like the "bad guys".
Note: I'm using a lower case "c" to distinguish the people from the political party (which has an upper case "C").
2
"the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute" - well, that didn't happen back when "the last minute" was April 29th...
– F1Krazy
6 hours ago
1
The first paragraph is missing a word. A far more politically acceptable <something> without free movement of people.
– Jontia
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
As I understand it, many proponents of Brexit believe that the UK would be better off outside of the EU and that the UK would be able to negotiate a far more politically acceptable (to the conservatives) without the free movement of people.
Furthermore, many conservatives have stated that they believe that Brexit will hurt the EU far more than it will hurt the UK and that the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute.
Finally, my suspicion is that many of these last minute negotiations are intended to make it appear that the leavers are the "reasonable ones" while making the EU seem like the "bad guys".
Note: I'm using a lower case "c" to distinguish the people from the political party (which has an upper case "C").
2
"the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute" - well, that didn't happen back when "the last minute" was April 29th...
– F1Krazy
6 hours ago
1
The first paragraph is missing a word. A far more politically acceptable <something> without free movement of people.
– Jontia
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
As I understand it, many proponents of Brexit believe that the UK would be better off outside of the EU and that the UK would be able to negotiate a far more politically acceptable (to the conservatives) without the free movement of people.
Furthermore, many conservatives have stated that they believe that Brexit will hurt the EU far more than it will hurt the UK and that the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute.
Finally, my suspicion is that many of these last minute negotiations are intended to make it appear that the leavers are the "reasonable ones" while making the EU seem like the "bad guys".
Note: I'm using a lower case "c" to distinguish the people from the political party (which has an upper case "C").
It makes sense that a participant in the negotiations of the kind of Brexit states he wants No Deal Brexit for strategic reasons as part of the negotiation.
As I understand it, many proponents of Brexit believe that the UK would be better off outside of the EU and that the UK would be able to negotiate a far more politically acceptable (to the conservatives) without the free movement of people.
Furthermore, many conservatives have stated that they believe that Brexit will hurt the EU far more than it will hurt the UK and that the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute.
Finally, my suspicion is that many of these last minute negotiations are intended to make it appear that the leavers are the "reasonable ones" while making the EU seem like the "bad guys".
Note: I'm using a lower case "c" to distinguish the people from the political party (which has an upper case "C").
answered 6 hours ago
TangurenaTangurena
4652 silver badges7 bronze badges
4652 silver badges7 bronze badges
2
"the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute" - well, that didn't happen back when "the last minute" was April 29th...
– F1Krazy
6 hours ago
1
The first paragraph is missing a word. A far more politically acceptable <something> without free movement of people.
– Jontia
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
2
"the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute" - well, that didn't happen back when "the last minute" was April 29th...
– F1Krazy
6 hours ago
1
The first paragraph is missing a word. A far more politically acceptable <something> without free movement of people.
– Jontia
4 hours ago
2
2
"the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute" - well, that didn't happen back when "the last minute" was April 29th...
– F1Krazy
6 hours ago
"the EU will negotiate something more politically acceptable to the conservatives at the last minute" - well, that didn't happen back when "the last minute" was April 29th...
– F1Krazy
6 hours ago
1
1
The first paragraph is missing a word. A far more politically acceptable <something> without free movement of people.
– Jontia
4 hours ago
The first paragraph is missing a word. A far more politically acceptable <something> without free movement of people.
– Jontia
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
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1
Voting to close as the answer requires telepathy.
– Roger
8 hours ago
4
@Roger One single politician which is for No Deal honestly would be enough to not need telepathy. For example: John Doe is for No Deal for the following malicious reasons.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
I think the malicious intent sentence at the end needs to go. That is the bit that is going to require mind reading, because they're not going to say that.
– Jontia
7 hours ago
3
@Jontia The malicious intentions could be known before, or otherwise obvious, so they do not need to say it. Also, there are intentions that are not seen as malicious by the person, but can be seen so for good reasons. Making a lot of money from it is not malicious. But betting on stock changes may seem more malicious.
– Volker Siegel
7 hours ago
2
If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit, then that's something objectively answerable but also a very trivial question. If you're asking if any politicians are saying they want a no-deal Brexit but actually don't want it, or vice versa, then we can really only speculate about internal motivations.
– Giter
7 hours ago