What is the definition of belonging in axiomatic set theory?Hungerford's statement in what is class in Gödel-Bernays axiomatic set theory.Undecidability in constructive subsystems of ZFCiterative conception of set --> axiom of regularityIn TG, what is the purpose of the “set axiom”A good reference for determinacy (set theory and game theory)Set-Theoretic Omniscience and Set Definition

What's the origin of the concept of alternate dimensions/realities?

How does Query decide the order in which the functions are applied?

Can a system of three stars exist?

Can I leave a large suitcase at TPE during a 4-hour layover, and pick it up 4.5 days later when I come back to TPE on my way to Taipei downtown?

Can authors email you PDFs of their textbook for free?

Is it good practice to speed up and slow down where not written in a song?

Cheap oscilloscope showing 16 MHz square wave

Quick Tilepaint Puzzles: Corridors and Corners

In Toy Story, are toys the only inanimate objects that become alive? And if so, why?

Colored grid with coordinates on all sides?

What is the motivation behind designing a control stick that does not move?

What is the practical impact of using System.Random which is not cryptographically random?

Can a human variant take proficiency in initiative?

How to run a command 1 out of N times in Bash

Modeling an M1A2 Smoke Grenade Launcher

What is the definition of belonging in axiomatic set theory?

Existing light fixture is connected to 2 white wires, black wires are capped

How is the casino term "a high roller" commonly expressed in German?

Why haven't the British protested Brexit as ardently as the Hong Kong protesters?

What caused the end of cybernetic implants?

How to load files as a quickfix window at start-up

Is there anything in the universe that cannot be compressed?

How can I portray a character with no fear of death, without them sounding utterly bored?

How can I store milk for long periods of time?



What is the definition of belonging in axiomatic set theory?


Hungerford's statement in what is class in Gödel-Bernays axiomatic set theory.Undecidability in constructive subsystems of ZFCiterative conception of set --> axiom of regularityIn TG, what is the purpose of the “set axiom”A good reference for determinacy (set theory and game theory)Set-Theoretic Omniscience and Set Definition






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1












$begingroup$


In Hungerford's Algebra it says that




Intuitively we consider a class to be a collection $A$ of objects such that given any object $x$ it is possible to determine whether or not $x$ is a member (or element) of $A$




In Thomas Jech's Set theory it states the extensionality without defining what is belonging.



I just learn that in set theory everything existing is just set. But it doesn't state that set is a collection of something so the natural membership definition of belonging may not exist. For example, red may be a set but nothing is a member of it in a real-life widely-admitted sense.



Then what is belonging, i.e. $in$ defined?



You can see also my another question










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$









  • 7




    $begingroup$
    It is primitive, not defined. The axioms govern its behavior. (Also,I assume you mean Thomas Jech?)
    $endgroup$
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    10 hours ago


















1












$begingroup$


In Hungerford's Algebra it says that




Intuitively we consider a class to be a collection $A$ of objects such that given any object $x$ it is possible to determine whether or not $x$ is a member (or element) of $A$




In Thomas Jech's Set theory it states the extensionality without defining what is belonging.



I just learn that in set theory everything existing is just set. But it doesn't state that set is a collection of something so the natural membership definition of belonging may not exist. For example, red may be a set but nothing is a member of it in a real-life widely-admitted sense.



Then what is belonging, i.e. $in$ defined?



You can see also my another question










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$









  • 7




    $begingroup$
    It is primitive, not defined. The axioms govern its behavior. (Also,I assume you mean Thomas Jech?)
    $endgroup$
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    10 hours ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$


In Hungerford's Algebra it says that




Intuitively we consider a class to be a collection $A$ of objects such that given any object $x$ it is possible to determine whether or not $x$ is a member (or element) of $A$




In Thomas Jech's Set theory it states the extensionality without defining what is belonging.



I just learn that in set theory everything existing is just set. But it doesn't state that set is a collection of something so the natural membership definition of belonging may not exist. For example, red may be a set but nothing is a member of it in a real-life widely-admitted sense.



Then what is belonging, i.e. $in$ defined?



You can see also my another question










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




In Hungerford's Algebra it says that




Intuitively we consider a class to be a collection $A$ of objects such that given any object $x$ it is possible to determine whether or not $x$ is a member (or element) of $A$




In Thomas Jech's Set theory it states the extensionality without defining what is belonging.



I just learn that in set theory everything existing is just set. But it doesn't state that set is a collection of something so the natural membership definition of belonging may not exist. For example, red may be a set but nothing is a member of it in a real-life widely-admitted sense.



Then what is belonging, i.e. $in$ defined?



You can see also my another question







set-theory






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago







ExactSequence

















asked 10 hours ago









ExactSequenceExactSequence

46510 bronze badges




46510 bronze badges










  • 7




    $begingroup$
    It is primitive, not defined. The axioms govern its behavior. (Also,I assume you mean Thomas Jech?)
    $endgroup$
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    10 hours ago













  • 7




    $begingroup$
    It is primitive, not defined. The axioms govern its behavior. (Also,I assume you mean Thomas Jech?)
    $endgroup$
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    10 hours ago








7




7




$begingroup$
It is primitive, not defined. The axioms govern its behavior. (Also,I assume you mean Thomas Jech?)
$endgroup$
– spaceisdarkgreen
10 hours ago





$begingroup$
It is primitive, not defined. The axioms govern its behavior. (Also,I assume you mean Thomas Jech?)
$endgroup$
– spaceisdarkgreen
10 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















7













$begingroup$

In axiomatic set (or class/class-set) theory, the membership relation is a primitive relation. It is not defined, but other things are defined from it. The axioms tell us how it behaves.



We can compare to the situation of asking how the successor operation is defined in an axiomatic treatment of arithmetic. You might say $S(0)=1$ and $S(1)=2,$ etc, but that's no definition at all. In fact, the right way to think of it is that $1$ is an abbreviation for $S(0)$ and $2$ is an abbreviation for $S(S(0)),$ etc. In other words, the successor operation is a basic notion with no definition. The axioms tell us its basic properties, like if $S(x) = S(y)$ then $x=y,$ and that there is no $x$ such that $S(x)=0,$ but if $yne 0$ then there is an $x$ such that $S(x)=y.$ Oh and how do we define $0$? Well, if we want, we can take it as an axiom that there is a unique object with no predecessor and define $0$ as that object. But it's really all the same and saves a little ink to take $0$ as primitive, so that's what's usually done.



In set theory, $in$ is the only primitive relation other than equality (although we can even define equality in terms of $in,$ but this is a little troublesome and not typically done). Other basic notions like the empty set, the subset relation, the union operation, etc, are defined in terms of $in$ and $=$ (where in the case of constants and operations, we also must use the axioms to establish existence/uniqueness/well-definedness). It may be convenient in certain modifications to take some of these as primative (e.g. the empty set), but it's customary in a standard treatment of ZF to have them defined.



I think you are reading the phrase "everything existing is a set" a bit too literally. What we mean is that every object in the domain of discourse of our theory is a set. This really has no content: we are just saying that the objects referred to by variables in our theory are called sets. We are certainly not making a sweeping metaphysical statement that every concept in the world (e.g. "red") is somehow a set.



Finally, a word on classes. In set theory, a class $C$ is just an informal notion of a collection of sets satisfying some formula $phi_C$. So $xin C$ is just an abbreviation for $phi_C(x)$. In class theory the membership relation for classes is a primitive relation again. There are a number of ways of slicing and dicing, but one way is to just let all objects be classes, and let sets be a special kind of class. We can define the predicate $Set(x)$ as $exists z (xin z),$ i.e. a set is a class that is an element of some class.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    For the proposer: A class in the language of ZFC can be considered as a modification to the language to allow some abbreviations. E.g. the formula $phi$ in one free variable that defines Godel's constructible class is very long so we write $xin L$ rather than writing out $phi(x)$ in full. This does NOT assert that there exists a set $L=x: phi(x).$ And in this case, since there does exist some $x$ such that $xin L$ but there does not exist a set $x:xin L$ we call $L$ a proper class. (An improper class, which is a term you will never see, would be a set.)............+1
    $endgroup$
    – DanielWainfleet
    20 mins ago


















0













$begingroup$

In axiomatic set theory, $in$ is a primitive relation - in fact, the only such in the theory in usual formulations, while the only primitive objects are sets. Primitives are not formally defined: if you want to think of them as having a definition, that definition is not part of the formal system (the system of logical axioms that set theory is, written in symbolic notation) and, instead, must belong to external, natural language. You can think of the formal system then as being something which tells these things how to behave, and in which we conduct arguments and proofs. We should think of these natural-language understandings (i.e. "a set is a collection") as a way to make sense of the formal axioms through intuition, so as to not look arbitrarily-chosen, random rules (as they aren't), and the formal axioms in turn, in a way, as "feeding back" on that in that they help to sharpen this intuition.



Insofar as the idea that "red" is a set, this is not correct. The statement "everything existing is a set" doesn't mean "everything existing in real life", rather it means "everything existing in the world of set theory". The world of set theory, at least Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, only has sets as primitive objects.






share|cite











$endgroup$

















    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "69"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3340300%2fwhat-is-the-definition-of-belonging-in-axiomatic-set-theory%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    7













    $begingroup$

    In axiomatic set (or class/class-set) theory, the membership relation is a primitive relation. It is not defined, but other things are defined from it. The axioms tell us how it behaves.



    We can compare to the situation of asking how the successor operation is defined in an axiomatic treatment of arithmetic. You might say $S(0)=1$ and $S(1)=2,$ etc, but that's no definition at all. In fact, the right way to think of it is that $1$ is an abbreviation for $S(0)$ and $2$ is an abbreviation for $S(S(0)),$ etc. In other words, the successor operation is a basic notion with no definition. The axioms tell us its basic properties, like if $S(x) = S(y)$ then $x=y,$ and that there is no $x$ such that $S(x)=0,$ but if $yne 0$ then there is an $x$ such that $S(x)=y.$ Oh and how do we define $0$? Well, if we want, we can take it as an axiom that there is a unique object with no predecessor and define $0$ as that object. But it's really all the same and saves a little ink to take $0$ as primitive, so that's what's usually done.



    In set theory, $in$ is the only primitive relation other than equality (although we can even define equality in terms of $in,$ but this is a little troublesome and not typically done). Other basic notions like the empty set, the subset relation, the union operation, etc, are defined in terms of $in$ and $=$ (where in the case of constants and operations, we also must use the axioms to establish existence/uniqueness/well-definedness). It may be convenient in certain modifications to take some of these as primative (e.g. the empty set), but it's customary in a standard treatment of ZF to have them defined.



    I think you are reading the phrase "everything existing is a set" a bit too literally. What we mean is that every object in the domain of discourse of our theory is a set. This really has no content: we are just saying that the objects referred to by variables in our theory are called sets. We are certainly not making a sweeping metaphysical statement that every concept in the world (e.g. "red") is somehow a set.



    Finally, a word on classes. In set theory, a class $C$ is just an informal notion of a collection of sets satisfying some formula $phi_C$. So $xin C$ is just an abbreviation for $phi_C(x)$. In class theory the membership relation for classes is a primitive relation again. There are a number of ways of slicing and dicing, but one way is to just let all objects be classes, and let sets be a special kind of class. We can define the predicate $Set(x)$ as $exists z (xin z),$ i.e. a set is a class that is an element of some class.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$














    • $begingroup$
      For the proposer: A class in the language of ZFC can be considered as a modification to the language to allow some abbreviations. E.g. the formula $phi$ in one free variable that defines Godel's constructible class is very long so we write $xin L$ rather than writing out $phi(x)$ in full. This does NOT assert that there exists a set $L=x: phi(x).$ And in this case, since there does exist some $x$ such that $xin L$ but there does not exist a set $x:xin L$ we call $L$ a proper class. (An improper class, which is a term you will never see, would be a set.)............+1
      $endgroup$
      – DanielWainfleet
      20 mins ago















    7













    $begingroup$

    In axiomatic set (or class/class-set) theory, the membership relation is a primitive relation. It is not defined, but other things are defined from it. The axioms tell us how it behaves.



    We can compare to the situation of asking how the successor operation is defined in an axiomatic treatment of arithmetic. You might say $S(0)=1$ and $S(1)=2,$ etc, but that's no definition at all. In fact, the right way to think of it is that $1$ is an abbreviation for $S(0)$ and $2$ is an abbreviation for $S(S(0)),$ etc. In other words, the successor operation is a basic notion with no definition. The axioms tell us its basic properties, like if $S(x) = S(y)$ then $x=y,$ and that there is no $x$ such that $S(x)=0,$ but if $yne 0$ then there is an $x$ such that $S(x)=y.$ Oh and how do we define $0$? Well, if we want, we can take it as an axiom that there is a unique object with no predecessor and define $0$ as that object. But it's really all the same and saves a little ink to take $0$ as primitive, so that's what's usually done.



    In set theory, $in$ is the only primitive relation other than equality (although we can even define equality in terms of $in,$ but this is a little troublesome and not typically done). Other basic notions like the empty set, the subset relation, the union operation, etc, are defined in terms of $in$ and $=$ (where in the case of constants and operations, we also must use the axioms to establish existence/uniqueness/well-definedness). It may be convenient in certain modifications to take some of these as primative (e.g. the empty set), but it's customary in a standard treatment of ZF to have them defined.



    I think you are reading the phrase "everything existing is a set" a bit too literally. What we mean is that every object in the domain of discourse of our theory is a set. This really has no content: we are just saying that the objects referred to by variables in our theory are called sets. We are certainly not making a sweeping metaphysical statement that every concept in the world (e.g. "red") is somehow a set.



    Finally, a word on classes. In set theory, a class $C$ is just an informal notion of a collection of sets satisfying some formula $phi_C$. So $xin C$ is just an abbreviation for $phi_C(x)$. In class theory the membership relation for classes is a primitive relation again. There are a number of ways of slicing and dicing, but one way is to just let all objects be classes, and let sets be a special kind of class. We can define the predicate $Set(x)$ as $exists z (xin z),$ i.e. a set is a class that is an element of some class.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$














    • $begingroup$
      For the proposer: A class in the language of ZFC can be considered as a modification to the language to allow some abbreviations. E.g. the formula $phi$ in one free variable that defines Godel's constructible class is very long so we write $xin L$ rather than writing out $phi(x)$ in full. This does NOT assert that there exists a set $L=x: phi(x).$ And in this case, since there does exist some $x$ such that $xin L$ but there does not exist a set $x:xin L$ we call $L$ a proper class. (An improper class, which is a term you will never see, would be a set.)............+1
      $endgroup$
      – DanielWainfleet
      20 mins ago













    7














    7










    7







    $begingroup$

    In axiomatic set (or class/class-set) theory, the membership relation is a primitive relation. It is not defined, but other things are defined from it. The axioms tell us how it behaves.



    We can compare to the situation of asking how the successor operation is defined in an axiomatic treatment of arithmetic. You might say $S(0)=1$ and $S(1)=2,$ etc, but that's no definition at all. In fact, the right way to think of it is that $1$ is an abbreviation for $S(0)$ and $2$ is an abbreviation for $S(S(0)),$ etc. In other words, the successor operation is a basic notion with no definition. The axioms tell us its basic properties, like if $S(x) = S(y)$ then $x=y,$ and that there is no $x$ such that $S(x)=0,$ but if $yne 0$ then there is an $x$ such that $S(x)=y.$ Oh and how do we define $0$? Well, if we want, we can take it as an axiom that there is a unique object with no predecessor and define $0$ as that object. But it's really all the same and saves a little ink to take $0$ as primitive, so that's what's usually done.



    In set theory, $in$ is the only primitive relation other than equality (although we can even define equality in terms of $in,$ but this is a little troublesome and not typically done). Other basic notions like the empty set, the subset relation, the union operation, etc, are defined in terms of $in$ and $=$ (where in the case of constants and operations, we also must use the axioms to establish existence/uniqueness/well-definedness). It may be convenient in certain modifications to take some of these as primative (e.g. the empty set), but it's customary in a standard treatment of ZF to have them defined.



    I think you are reading the phrase "everything existing is a set" a bit too literally. What we mean is that every object in the domain of discourse of our theory is a set. This really has no content: we are just saying that the objects referred to by variables in our theory are called sets. We are certainly not making a sweeping metaphysical statement that every concept in the world (e.g. "red") is somehow a set.



    Finally, a word on classes. In set theory, a class $C$ is just an informal notion of a collection of sets satisfying some formula $phi_C$. So $xin C$ is just an abbreviation for $phi_C(x)$. In class theory the membership relation for classes is a primitive relation again. There are a number of ways of slicing and dicing, but one way is to just let all objects be classes, and let sets be a special kind of class. We can define the predicate $Set(x)$ as $exists z (xin z),$ i.e. a set is a class that is an element of some class.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    In axiomatic set (or class/class-set) theory, the membership relation is a primitive relation. It is not defined, but other things are defined from it. The axioms tell us how it behaves.



    We can compare to the situation of asking how the successor operation is defined in an axiomatic treatment of arithmetic. You might say $S(0)=1$ and $S(1)=2,$ etc, but that's no definition at all. In fact, the right way to think of it is that $1$ is an abbreviation for $S(0)$ and $2$ is an abbreviation for $S(S(0)),$ etc. In other words, the successor operation is a basic notion with no definition. The axioms tell us its basic properties, like if $S(x) = S(y)$ then $x=y,$ and that there is no $x$ such that $S(x)=0,$ but if $yne 0$ then there is an $x$ such that $S(x)=y.$ Oh and how do we define $0$? Well, if we want, we can take it as an axiom that there is a unique object with no predecessor and define $0$ as that object. But it's really all the same and saves a little ink to take $0$ as primitive, so that's what's usually done.



    In set theory, $in$ is the only primitive relation other than equality (although we can even define equality in terms of $in,$ but this is a little troublesome and not typically done). Other basic notions like the empty set, the subset relation, the union operation, etc, are defined in terms of $in$ and $=$ (where in the case of constants and operations, we also must use the axioms to establish existence/uniqueness/well-definedness). It may be convenient in certain modifications to take some of these as primative (e.g. the empty set), but it's customary in a standard treatment of ZF to have them defined.



    I think you are reading the phrase "everything existing is a set" a bit too literally. What we mean is that every object in the domain of discourse of our theory is a set. This really has no content: we are just saying that the objects referred to by variables in our theory are called sets. We are certainly not making a sweeping metaphysical statement that every concept in the world (e.g. "red") is somehow a set.



    Finally, a word on classes. In set theory, a class $C$ is just an informal notion of a collection of sets satisfying some formula $phi_C$. So $xin C$ is just an abbreviation for $phi_C(x)$. In class theory the membership relation for classes is a primitive relation again. There are a number of ways of slicing and dicing, but one way is to just let all objects be classes, and let sets be a special kind of class. We can define the predicate $Set(x)$ as $exists z (xin z),$ i.e. a set is a class that is an element of some class.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited 5 hours ago

























    answered 9 hours ago









    spaceisdarkgreenspaceisdarkgreen

    37k2 gold badges21 silver badges57 bronze badges




    37k2 gold badges21 silver badges57 bronze badges














    • $begingroup$
      For the proposer: A class in the language of ZFC can be considered as a modification to the language to allow some abbreviations. E.g. the formula $phi$ in one free variable that defines Godel's constructible class is very long so we write $xin L$ rather than writing out $phi(x)$ in full. This does NOT assert that there exists a set $L=x: phi(x).$ And in this case, since there does exist some $x$ such that $xin L$ but there does not exist a set $x:xin L$ we call $L$ a proper class. (An improper class, which is a term you will never see, would be a set.)............+1
      $endgroup$
      – DanielWainfleet
      20 mins ago
















    • $begingroup$
      For the proposer: A class in the language of ZFC can be considered as a modification to the language to allow some abbreviations. E.g. the formula $phi$ in one free variable that defines Godel's constructible class is very long so we write $xin L$ rather than writing out $phi(x)$ in full. This does NOT assert that there exists a set $L=x: phi(x).$ And in this case, since there does exist some $x$ such that $xin L$ but there does not exist a set $x:xin L$ we call $L$ a proper class. (An improper class, which is a term you will never see, would be a set.)............+1
      $endgroup$
      – DanielWainfleet
      20 mins ago















    $begingroup$
    For the proposer: A class in the language of ZFC can be considered as a modification to the language to allow some abbreviations. E.g. the formula $phi$ in one free variable that defines Godel's constructible class is very long so we write $xin L$ rather than writing out $phi(x)$ in full. This does NOT assert that there exists a set $L=x: phi(x).$ And in this case, since there does exist some $x$ such that $xin L$ but there does not exist a set $x:xin L$ we call $L$ a proper class. (An improper class, which is a term you will never see, would be a set.)............+1
    $endgroup$
    – DanielWainfleet
    20 mins ago




    $begingroup$
    For the proposer: A class in the language of ZFC can be considered as a modification to the language to allow some abbreviations. E.g. the formula $phi$ in one free variable that defines Godel's constructible class is very long so we write $xin L$ rather than writing out $phi(x)$ in full. This does NOT assert that there exists a set $L=x: phi(x).$ And in this case, since there does exist some $x$ such that $xin L$ but there does not exist a set $x:xin L$ we call $L$ a proper class. (An improper class, which is a term you will never see, would be a set.)............+1
    $endgroup$
    – DanielWainfleet
    20 mins ago













    0













    $begingroup$

    In axiomatic set theory, $in$ is a primitive relation - in fact, the only such in the theory in usual formulations, while the only primitive objects are sets. Primitives are not formally defined: if you want to think of them as having a definition, that definition is not part of the formal system (the system of logical axioms that set theory is, written in symbolic notation) and, instead, must belong to external, natural language. You can think of the formal system then as being something which tells these things how to behave, and in which we conduct arguments and proofs. We should think of these natural-language understandings (i.e. "a set is a collection") as a way to make sense of the formal axioms through intuition, so as to not look arbitrarily-chosen, random rules (as they aren't), and the formal axioms in turn, in a way, as "feeding back" on that in that they help to sharpen this intuition.



    Insofar as the idea that "red" is a set, this is not correct. The statement "everything existing is a set" doesn't mean "everything existing in real life", rather it means "everything existing in the world of set theory". The world of set theory, at least Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, only has sets as primitive objects.






    share|cite











    $endgroup$



















      0













      $begingroup$

      In axiomatic set theory, $in$ is a primitive relation - in fact, the only such in the theory in usual formulations, while the only primitive objects are sets. Primitives are not formally defined: if you want to think of them as having a definition, that definition is not part of the formal system (the system of logical axioms that set theory is, written in symbolic notation) and, instead, must belong to external, natural language. You can think of the formal system then as being something which tells these things how to behave, and in which we conduct arguments and proofs. We should think of these natural-language understandings (i.e. "a set is a collection") as a way to make sense of the formal axioms through intuition, so as to not look arbitrarily-chosen, random rules (as they aren't), and the formal axioms in turn, in a way, as "feeding back" on that in that they help to sharpen this intuition.



      Insofar as the idea that "red" is a set, this is not correct. The statement "everything existing is a set" doesn't mean "everything existing in real life", rather it means "everything existing in the world of set theory". The world of set theory, at least Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, only has sets as primitive objects.






      share|cite











      $endgroup$

















        0














        0










        0







        $begingroup$

        In axiomatic set theory, $in$ is a primitive relation - in fact, the only such in the theory in usual formulations, while the only primitive objects are sets. Primitives are not formally defined: if you want to think of them as having a definition, that definition is not part of the formal system (the system of logical axioms that set theory is, written in symbolic notation) and, instead, must belong to external, natural language. You can think of the formal system then as being something which tells these things how to behave, and in which we conduct arguments and proofs. We should think of these natural-language understandings (i.e. "a set is a collection") as a way to make sense of the formal axioms through intuition, so as to not look arbitrarily-chosen, random rules (as they aren't), and the formal axioms in turn, in a way, as "feeding back" on that in that they help to sharpen this intuition.



        Insofar as the idea that "red" is a set, this is not correct. The statement "everything existing is a set" doesn't mean "everything existing in real life", rather it means "everything existing in the world of set theory". The world of set theory, at least Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, only has sets as primitive objects.






        share|cite











        $endgroup$



        In axiomatic set theory, $in$ is a primitive relation - in fact, the only such in the theory in usual formulations, while the only primitive objects are sets. Primitives are not formally defined: if you want to think of them as having a definition, that definition is not part of the formal system (the system of logical axioms that set theory is, written in symbolic notation) and, instead, must belong to external, natural language. You can think of the formal system then as being something which tells these things how to behave, and in which we conduct arguments and proofs. We should think of these natural-language understandings (i.e. "a set is a collection") as a way to make sense of the formal axioms through intuition, so as to not look arbitrarily-chosen, random rules (as they aren't), and the formal axioms in turn, in a way, as "feeding back" on that in that they help to sharpen this intuition.



        Insofar as the idea that "red" is a set, this is not correct. The statement "everything existing is a set" doesn't mean "everything existing in real life", rather it means "everything existing in the world of set theory". The world of set theory, at least Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, only has sets as primitive objects.







        share|cite














        share|cite



        share|cite








        edited 3 mins ago

























        answered 8 mins ago









        The_SympathizerThe_Sympathizer

        11.1k3 gold badges31 silver badges55 bronze badges




        11.1k3 gold badges31 silver badges55 bronze badges






























            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3340300%2fwhat-is-the-definition-of-belonging-in-axiomatic-set-theory%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

            Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

            199年 目錄 大件事 到箇年出世嗰人 到箇年死嗰人 節慶、風俗習慣 導覽選單