Four-velocity of radially infalling gas in Schwarzschild metricWhat is the Schwarzschild metric with proper radial distance?Schwarzschild metric in Isotropic coordinatesSchwarzschild metric circular orbits and kepler's 3rd lawThe spatial Schwarzschild metricFour-velocity in General-relativistic geodesic equationEnergy of a circular orbit in the Schwarzschild metric?On the embedding of the Schwarzschild metric in six dimensionsAre the space and time axes of Schwarzschild metric uncurved?Freely falling observer in Schwarzschild metricVelocity of a photon according to a stationary observer in Schwarzschild metric

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Four-velocity of radially infalling gas in Schwarzschild metric


What is the Schwarzschild metric with proper radial distance?Schwarzschild metric in Isotropic coordinatesSchwarzschild metric circular orbits and kepler's 3rd lawThe spatial Schwarzschild metricFour-velocity in General-relativistic geodesic equationEnergy of a circular orbit in the Schwarzschild metric?On the embedding of the Schwarzschild metric in six dimensionsAre the space and time axes of Schwarzschild metric uncurved?Freely falling observer in Schwarzschild metricVelocity of a photon according to a stationary observer in Schwarzschild metric






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1












$begingroup$


I am reading this paper by Thorne, Flammang & Zytkow (1981), which discusses the dynamics of spherical accretion onto a black hole in the Schwarzschild metric ($c=G=1$ units):



$$ds^2=-(1-2M/r)dt^2+(1-2M/r)^-1dr^2+r^2(dtheta^2+sin^2theta dphi^2)$$



For a gas with inward velocity $v$ (as measured by an observer at rest in this metric), equations 2-3 of the paper give this expression for the four-velocity:
$$mathbfu=y(1-2M/r)^-1fracpartialpartial t-vyfracpartialpartial r$$
$$yequivmathbfucdotfracpartialpartial t=(1-2M/r)^1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$$
$y$ is the so-called energy parameter, and it would be a constant if the trajectory was a geodesic.



I am having trouble understanding how to obtain this expression. Here is what I tried so far:



  • The velocity is $v=-fracdrdt$ (minus sign because the gas is moving inward)

  • The four-velocity components are usually written as $U^mu=fracdx^mudtau$, where $tau$ is the proper time

  • By the chain rule, $fracdrdtau=fracdrdtfracdtdtau=-vfracdtdtau$

  • The four-velocity as a vector is $mathbfu=U^mupartial_mu=U^mufracpartialpartial x^mu$

So that:
$$mathbfu=fracdtdtaufracpartialpartial t+fracdrdtaufracpartialpartial r quad\=fracdtdtauleft(fracpartialpartial t-vfracpartialpartial rright)$$



Further, since $ds^2=-dtau^2$, we have:
$$-1=-(1-2M/r)left(fracdtdtauright)^2+(1-2M/r)^-1left(fracdrdtauright)^2\
=left(fracdtdtauright)^2left(-(1-2M/r)+(1-2M/r)^-1v^2right)
$$



I don't see how this can lead to the expression for the four-velocity from the paper, so I must be making a mistake somewhere. Any help would be appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$


    I am reading this paper by Thorne, Flammang & Zytkow (1981), which discusses the dynamics of spherical accretion onto a black hole in the Schwarzschild metric ($c=G=1$ units):



    $$ds^2=-(1-2M/r)dt^2+(1-2M/r)^-1dr^2+r^2(dtheta^2+sin^2theta dphi^2)$$



    For a gas with inward velocity $v$ (as measured by an observer at rest in this metric), equations 2-3 of the paper give this expression for the four-velocity:
    $$mathbfu=y(1-2M/r)^-1fracpartialpartial t-vyfracpartialpartial r$$
    $$yequivmathbfucdotfracpartialpartial t=(1-2M/r)^1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$$
    $y$ is the so-called energy parameter, and it would be a constant if the trajectory was a geodesic.



    I am having trouble understanding how to obtain this expression. Here is what I tried so far:



    • The velocity is $v=-fracdrdt$ (minus sign because the gas is moving inward)

    • The four-velocity components are usually written as $U^mu=fracdx^mudtau$, where $tau$ is the proper time

    • By the chain rule, $fracdrdtau=fracdrdtfracdtdtau=-vfracdtdtau$

    • The four-velocity as a vector is $mathbfu=U^mupartial_mu=U^mufracpartialpartial x^mu$

    So that:
    $$mathbfu=fracdtdtaufracpartialpartial t+fracdrdtaufracpartialpartial r quad\=fracdtdtauleft(fracpartialpartial t-vfracpartialpartial rright)$$



    Further, since $ds^2=-dtau^2$, we have:
    $$-1=-(1-2M/r)left(fracdtdtauright)^2+(1-2M/r)^-1left(fracdrdtauright)^2\
    =left(fracdtdtauright)^2left(-(1-2M/r)+(1-2M/r)^-1v^2right)
    $$



    I don't see how this can lead to the expression for the four-velocity from the paper, so I must be making a mistake somewhere. Any help would be appreciated.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$
















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      I am reading this paper by Thorne, Flammang & Zytkow (1981), which discusses the dynamics of spherical accretion onto a black hole in the Schwarzschild metric ($c=G=1$ units):



      $$ds^2=-(1-2M/r)dt^2+(1-2M/r)^-1dr^2+r^2(dtheta^2+sin^2theta dphi^2)$$



      For a gas with inward velocity $v$ (as measured by an observer at rest in this metric), equations 2-3 of the paper give this expression for the four-velocity:
      $$mathbfu=y(1-2M/r)^-1fracpartialpartial t-vyfracpartialpartial r$$
      $$yequivmathbfucdotfracpartialpartial t=(1-2M/r)^1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$$
      $y$ is the so-called energy parameter, and it would be a constant if the trajectory was a geodesic.



      I am having trouble understanding how to obtain this expression. Here is what I tried so far:



      • The velocity is $v=-fracdrdt$ (minus sign because the gas is moving inward)

      • The four-velocity components are usually written as $U^mu=fracdx^mudtau$, where $tau$ is the proper time

      • By the chain rule, $fracdrdtau=fracdrdtfracdtdtau=-vfracdtdtau$

      • The four-velocity as a vector is $mathbfu=U^mupartial_mu=U^mufracpartialpartial x^mu$

      So that:
      $$mathbfu=fracdtdtaufracpartialpartial t+fracdrdtaufracpartialpartial r quad\=fracdtdtauleft(fracpartialpartial t-vfracpartialpartial rright)$$



      Further, since $ds^2=-dtau^2$, we have:
      $$-1=-(1-2M/r)left(fracdtdtauright)^2+(1-2M/r)^-1left(fracdrdtauright)^2\
      =left(fracdtdtauright)^2left(-(1-2M/r)+(1-2M/r)^-1v^2right)
      $$



      I don't see how this can lead to the expression for the four-velocity from the paper, so I must be making a mistake somewhere. Any help would be appreciated.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      I am reading this paper by Thorne, Flammang & Zytkow (1981), which discusses the dynamics of spherical accretion onto a black hole in the Schwarzschild metric ($c=G=1$ units):



      $$ds^2=-(1-2M/r)dt^2+(1-2M/r)^-1dr^2+r^2(dtheta^2+sin^2theta dphi^2)$$



      For a gas with inward velocity $v$ (as measured by an observer at rest in this metric), equations 2-3 of the paper give this expression for the four-velocity:
      $$mathbfu=y(1-2M/r)^-1fracpartialpartial t-vyfracpartialpartial r$$
      $$yequivmathbfucdotfracpartialpartial t=(1-2M/r)^1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$$
      $y$ is the so-called energy parameter, and it would be a constant if the trajectory was a geodesic.



      I am having trouble understanding how to obtain this expression. Here is what I tried so far:



      • The velocity is $v=-fracdrdt$ (minus sign because the gas is moving inward)

      • The four-velocity components are usually written as $U^mu=fracdx^mudtau$, where $tau$ is the proper time

      • By the chain rule, $fracdrdtau=fracdrdtfracdtdtau=-vfracdtdtau$

      • The four-velocity as a vector is $mathbfu=U^mupartial_mu=U^mufracpartialpartial x^mu$

      So that:
      $$mathbfu=fracdtdtaufracpartialpartial t+fracdrdtaufracpartialpartial r quad\=fracdtdtauleft(fracpartialpartial t-vfracpartialpartial rright)$$



      Further, since $ds^2=-dtau^2$, we have:
      $$-1=-(1-2M/r)left(fracdtdtauright)^2+(1-2M/r)^-1left(fracdrdtauright)^2\
      =left(fracdtdtauright)^2left(-(1-2M/r)+(1-2M/r)^-1v^2right)
      $$



      I don't see how this can lead to the expression for the four-velocity from the paper, so I must be making a mistake somewhere. Any help would be appreciated.







      general-relativity black-holes






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked 8 hours ago









      Simon G.Simon G.

      165 bronze badges




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          2 Answers
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          3












          $begingroup$

          The velocity $v$ is not $dr/dt$. What the paper says is




          $vquad$ inward velocity of gas as measured by an observer at fixed $r$ in his local proper reference frame




          This means that you need to build an orthonormal frame from the $partial/partial^mu$ vectors at a given spacetime point. Well, you can check that the vectors



          $$mathbfe_hatt = frac1sqrt1-2M/r partial_t quad textand quad mathbfe_hatr = sqrt1 - 2M/r partial_r$$



          are orthonormal, satisfying $mathbfe_hatt cdot mathbfe_hatt = -1$ and $mathbfe_hatr cdot mathbfe_hatr = 1$. In terms of these, the four-velocity is



          $$mathbfu = fracysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatt - fracvysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatr = u^hatmu mathbfe_hatmu,$$



          and we have that $v = -u^hatr/u^hatt$. Or, to put it another way, the four-velocity has the $mathbfu = (gamma, -gamma v)$ structure we expect from special relativity.




          What if we want to go the other way and write down an expression for the four-velocity? We start with our expressions for the orthonormal basis vectors $mathbfe_hatmu$ and the four-velocity $mathbfu = u^hatt mathbfe_hatt + u^hatr mathbfe_hatr$. From the special relativistic formula $mathbfu = gamma(v) mathbfe_hatt - gamma(v) v mathbfe_hatr$ (which holds since we're in an orthonormal basis), we get that $u^hatt = gamma(v)$ and $u^hatr = -gamma(v) v$. Finally, going back to the $partial_mu$ basis, we find



          $$mathbfu = fracgamma(v)sqrt1-2M/r partial_t - gamma(v) v sqrt1-2M/r partial_r.$$



          This is the same as the given expression if we define $y = - mathbfu cdot partial_t = - g_tt u^t$, which works out to $y = gamma(v) sqrt1-2M/r$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, I did have a misconception about which velocity v is. I see how this leads to the expression in the paper, but could you explain how to get the u components in this basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I just replaced the $partial_mu$ vectors in terms of the $mathbfe_hatmu$, using that $partial_t = sqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_t$ and so on.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            But how would I get the expression for the four-velocity in the first place? Where do $y$ and $v$ come from if I'm starting from this orthonormal basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I've updated my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you, I did not know that this connection between orthonormal bases and special relativity could be made. It makes sense!
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago


















          3












          $begingroup$

          Javier's answer is correct, but here's another way of seeing it: An observer's "local radial coordinate" $tilder$ and "local time coordinate" $tildet$ are defined such that the metric is (locally) $ds^2 = - dtildet^2 + dtilder^2$ (suppressing angular coordinates). It is evident that under this definition, $dtildet = dt sqrt1 - 2M/r $ and $d tilder = dr / sqrt1 - 2M/r$. Thus,
          $$
          -v = fracdtilderdtildet = frac11 - 2M/r fracdrdt.
          $$

          This implies that
          $$
          u^mu = fracdtdtau left( 1, fracdrdt , 0, 0 right) = fracdtdtau left( 1, -left(1 - frac2Mrright) v, 0, 0 right).
          $$

          Further requiring that $u^mu u_mu = -1$ then leads to
          $$
          fracdtdtau = sqrtfrac1(1 - 2M/r)(1 - v^2),
          $$

          which is equivalent to the expressions provided.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$










          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Although this is correct, one has to be careful, because the equations with the differentials don't necessarily define actual coordinate functions $tildet$ and $tilder$. The quotation marks around "local coordinates" are very important!
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer is more intuitive to me. The fact that local coordinates are equivalent to flat spacetime is only true exactly at point $p$ where the observer is, correct?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Michael. Just a small correction, $dt/dtau = (1-2M/r)^-1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            5 hours ago













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          2 Answers
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          2 Answers
          2






          active

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          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

          votes









          3












          $begingroup$

          The velocity $v$ is not $dr/dt$. What the paper says is




          $vquad$ inward velocity of gas as measured by an observer at fixed $r$ in his local proper reference frame




          This means that you need to build an orthonormal frame from the $partial/partial^mu$ vectors at a given spacetime point. Well, you can check that the vectors



          $$mathbfe_hatt = frac1sqrt1-2M/r partial_t quad textand quad mathbfe_hatr = sqrt1 - 2M/r partial_r$$



          are orthonormal, satisfying $mathbfe_hatt cdot mathbfe_hatt = -1$ and $mathbfe_hatr cdot mathbfe_hatr = 1$. In terms of these, the four-velocity is



          $$mathbfu = fracysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatt - fracvysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatr = u^hatmu mathbfe_hatmu,$$



          and we have that $v = -u^hatr/u^hatt$. Or, to put it another way, the four-velocity has the $mathbfu = (gamma, -gamma v)$ structure we expect from special relativity.




          What if we want to go the other way and write down an expression for the four-velocity? We start with our expressions for the orthonormal basis vectors $mathbfe_hatmu$ and the four-velocity $mathbfu = u^hatt mathbfe_hatt + u^hatr mathbfe_hatr$. From the special relativistic formula $mathbfu = gamma(v) mathbfe_hatt - gamma(v) v mathbfe_hatr$ (which holds since we're in an orthonormal basis), we get that $u^hatt = gamma(v)$ and $u^hatr = -gamma(v) v$. Finally, going back to the $partial_mu$ basis, we find



          $$mathbfu = fracgamma(v)sqrt1-2M/r partial_t - gamma(v) v sqrt1-2M/r partial_r.$$



          This is the same as the given expression if we define $y = - mathbfu cdot partial_t = - g_tt u^t$, which works out to $y = gamma(v) sqrt1-2M/r$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, I did have a misconception about which velocity v is. I see how this leads to the expression in the paper, but could you explain how to get the u components in this basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I just replaced the $partial_mu$ vectors in terms of the $mathbfe_hatmu$, using that $partial_t = sqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_t$ and so on.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            But how would I get the expression for the four-velocity in the first place? Where do $y$ and $v$ come from if I'm starting from this orthonormal basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I've updated my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you, I did not know that this connection between orthonormal bases and special relativity could be made. It makes sense!
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago















          3












          $begingroup$

          The velocity $v$ is not $dr/dt$. What the paper says is




          $vquad$ inward velocity of gas as measured by an observer at fixed $r$ in his local proper reference frame




          This means that you need to build an orthonormal frame from the $partial/partial^mu$ vectors at a given spacetime point. Well, you can check that the vectors



          $$mathbfe_hatt = frac1sqrt1-2M/r partial_t quad textand quad mathbfe_hatr = sqrt1 - 2M/r partial_r$$



          are orthonormal, satisfying $mathbfe_hatt cdot mathbfe_hatt = -1$ and $mathbfe_hatr cdot mathbfe_hatr = 1$. In terms of these, the four-velocity is



          $$mathbfu = fracysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatt - fracvysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatr = u^hatmu mathbfe_hatmu,$$



          and we have that $v = -u^hatr/u^hatt$. Or, to put it another way, the four-velocity has the $mathbfu = (gamma, -gamma v)$ structure we expect from special relativity.




          What if we want to go the other way and write down an expression for the four-velocity? We start with our expressions for the orthonormal basis vectors $mathbfe_hatmu$ and the four-velocity $mathbfu = u^hatt mathbfe_hatt + u^hatr mathbfe_hatr$. From the special relativistic formula $mathbfu = gamma(v) mathbfe_hatt - gamma(v) v mathbfe_hatr$ (which holds since we're in an orthonormal basis), we get that $u^hatt = gamma(v)$ and $u^hatr = -gamma(v) v$. Finally, going back to the $partial_mu$ basis, we find



          $$mathbfu = fracgamma(v)sqrt1-2M/r partial_t - gamma(v) v sqrt1-2M/r partial_r.$$



          This is the same as the given expression if we define $y = - mathbfu cdot partial_t = - g_tt u^t$, which works out to $y = gamma(v) sqrt1-2M/r$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, I did have a misconception about which velocity v is. I see how this leads to the expression in the paper, but could you explain how to get the u components in this basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I just replaced the $partial_mu$ vectors in terms of the $mathbfe_hatmu$, using that $partial_t = sqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_t$ and so on.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            But how would I get the expression for the four-velocity in the first place? Where do $y$ and $v$ come from if I'm starting from this orthonormal basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I've updated my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you, I did not know that this connection between orthonormal bases and special relativity could be made. It makes sense!
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago













          3












          3








          3





          $begingroup$

          The velocity $v$ is not $dr/dt$. What the paper says is




          $vquad$ inward velocity of gas as measured by an observer at fixed $r$ in his local proper reference frame




          This means that you need to build an orthonormal frame from the $partial/partial^mu$ vectors at a given spacetime point. Well, you can check that the vectors



          $$mathbfe_hatt = frac1sqrt1-2M/r partial_t quad textand quad mathbfe_hatr = sqrt1 - 2M/r partial_r$$



          are orthonormal, satisfying $mathbfe_hatt cdot mathbfe_hatt = -1$ and $mathbfe_hatr cdot mathbfe_hatr = 1$. In terms of these, the four-velocity is



          $$mathbfu = fracysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatt - fracvysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatr = u^hatmu mathbfe_hatmu,$$



          and we have that $v = -u^hatr/u^hatt$. Or, to put it another way, the four-velocity has the $mathbfu = (gamma, -gamma v)$ structure we expect from special relativity.




          What if we want to go the other way and write down an expression for the four-velocity? We start with our expressions for the orthonormal basis vectors $mathbfe_hatmu$ and the four-velocity $mathbfu = u^hatt mathbfe_hatt + u^hatr mathbfe_hatr$. From the special relativistic formula $mathbfu = gamma(v) mathbfe_hatt - gamma(v) v mathbfe_hatr$ (which holds since we're in an orthonormal basis), we get that $u^hatt = gamma(v)$ and $u^hatr = -gamma(v) v$. Finally, going back to the $partial_mu$ basis, we find



          $$mathbfu = fracgamma(v)sqrt1-2M/r partial_t - gamma(v) v sqrt1-2M/r partial_r.$$



          This is the same as the given expression if we define $y = - mathbfu cdot partial_t = - g_tt u^t$, which works out to $y = gamma(v) sqrt1-2M/r$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          The velocity $v$ is not $dr/dt$. What the paper says is




          $vquad$ inward velocity of gas as measured by an observer at fixed $r$ in his local proper reference frame




          This means that you need to build an orthonormal frame from the $partial/partial^mu$ vectors at a given spacetime point. Well, you can check that the vectors



          $$mathbfe_hatt = frac1sqrt1-2M/r partial_t quad textand quad mathbfe_hatr = sqrt1 - 2M/r partial_r$$



          are orthonormal, satisfying $mathbfe_hatt cdot mathbfe_hatt = -1$ and $mathbfe_hatr cdot mathbfe_hatr = 1$. In terms of these, the four-velocity is



          $$mathbfu = fracysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatt - fracvysqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_hatr = u^hatmu mathbfe_hatmu,$$



          and we have that $v = -u^hatr/u^hatt$. Or, to put it another way, the four-velocity has the $mathbfu = (gamma, -gamma v)$ structure we expect from special relativity.




          What if we want to go the other way and write down an expression for the four-velocity? We start with our expressions for the orthonormal basis vectors $mathbfe_hatmu$ and the four-velocity $mathbfu = u^hatt mathbfe_hatt + u^hatr mathbfe_hatr$. From the special relativistic formula $mathbfu = gamma(v) mathbfe_hatt - gamma(v) v mathbfe_hatr$ (which holds since we're in an orthonormal basis), we get that $u^hatt = gamma(v)$ and $u^hatr = -gamma(v) v$. Finally, going back to the $partial_mu$ basis, we find



          $$mathbfu = fracgamma(v)sqrt1-2M/r partial_t - gamma(v) v sqrt1-2M/r partial_r.$$



          This is the same as the given expression if we define $y = - mathbfu cdot partial_t = - g_tt u^t$, which works out to $y = gamma(v) sqrt1-2M/r$.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 6 hours ago

























          answered 7 hours ago









          JavierJavier

          15.5k8 gold badges46 silver badges84 bronze badges




          15.5k8 gold badges46 silver badges84 bronze badges














          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, I did have a misconception about which velocity v is. I see how this leads to the expression in the paper, but could you explain how to get the u components in this basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I just replaced the $partial_mu$ vectors in terms of the $mathbfe_hatmu$, using that $partial_t = sqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_t$ and so on.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            But how would I get the expression for the four-velocity in the first place? Where do $y$ and $v$ come from if I'm starting from this orthonormal basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I've updated my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you, I did not know that this connection between orthonormal bases and special relativity could be made. It makes sense!
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks, I did have a misconception about which velocity v is. I see how this leads to the expression in the paper, but could you explain how to get the u components in this basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I just replaced the $partial_mu$ vectors in terms of the $mathbfe_hatmu$, using that $partial_t = sqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_t$ and so on.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            But how would I get the expression for the four-velocity in the first place? Where do $y$ and $v$ come from if I'm starting from this orthonormal basis?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @SimonG. I've updated my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you, I did not know that this connection between orthonormal bases and special relativity could be made. It makes sense!
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago















          $begingroup$
          Thanks, I did have a misconception about which velocity v is. I see how this leads to the expression in the paper, but could you explain how to get the u components in this basis?
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Thanks, I did have a misconception about which velocity v is. I see how this leads to the expression in the paper, but could you explain how to get the u components in this basis?
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          7 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @SimonG. I just replaced the $partial_mu$ vectors in terms of the $mathbfe_hatmu$, using that $partial_t = sqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_t$ and so on.
          $endgroup$
          – Javier
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @SimonG. I just replaced the $partial_mu$ vectors in terms of the $mathbfe_hatmu$, using that $partial_t = sqrt1-2M/r mathbfe_t$ and so on.
          $endgroup$
          – Javier
          7 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          But how would I get the expression for the four-velocity in the first place? Where do $y$ and $v$ come from if I'm starting from this orthonormal basis?
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          6 hours ago





          $begingroup$
          But how would I get the expression for the four-velocity in the first place? Where do $y$ and $v$ come from if I'm starting from this orthonormal basis?
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          6 hours ago













          $begingroup$
          @SimonG. I've updated my answer.
          $endgroup$
          – Javier
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @SimonG. I've updated my answer.
          $endgroup$
          – Javier
          6 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Thank you, I did not know that this connection between orthonormal bases and special relativity could be made. It makes sense!
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Thank you, I did not know that this connection between orthonormal bases and special relativity could be made. It makes sense!
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          6 hours ago













          3












          $begingroup$

          Javier's answer is correct, but here's another way of seeing it: An observer's "local radial coordinate" $tilder$ and "local time coordinate" $tildet$ are defined such that the metric is (locally) $ds^2 = - dtildet^2 + dtilder^2$ (suppressing angular coordinates). It is evident that under this definition, $dtildet = dt sqrt1 - 2M/r $ and $d tilder = dr / sqrt1 - 2M/r$. Thus,
          $$
          -v = fracdtilderdtildet = frac11 - 2M/r fracdrdt.
          $$

          This implies that
          $$
          u^mu = fracdtdtau left( 1, fracdrdt , 0, 0 right) = fracdtdtau left( 1, -left(1 - frac2Mrright) v, 0, 0 right).
          $$

          Further requiring that $u^mu u_mu = -1$ then leads to
          $$
          fracdtdtau = sqrtfrac1(1 - 2M/r)(1 - v^2),
          $$

          which is equivalent to the expressions provided.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$










          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Although this is correct, one has to be careful, because the equations with the differentials don't necessarily define actual coordinate functions $tildet$ and $tilder$. The quotation marks around "local coordinates" are very important!
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer is more intuitive to me. The fact that local coordinates are equivalent to flat spacetime is only true exactly at point $p$ where the observer is, correct?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Michael. Just a small correction, $dt/dtau = (1-2M/r)^-1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            5 hours ago















          3












          $begingroup$

          Javier's answer is correct, but here's another way of seeing it: An observer's "local radial coordinate" $tilder$ and "local time coordinate" $tildet$ are defined such that the metric is (locally) $ds^2 = - dtildet^2 + dtilder^2$ (suppressing angular coordinates). It is evident that under this definition, $dtildet = dt sqrt1 - 2M/r $ and $d tilder = dr / sqrt1 - 2M/r$. Thus,
          $$
          -v = fracdtilderdtildet = frac11 - 2M/r fracdrdt.
          $$

          This implies that
          $$
          u^mu = fracdtdtau left( 1, fracdrdt , 0, 0 right) = fracdtdtau left( 1, -left(1 - frac2Mrright) v, 0, 0 right).
          $$

          Further requiring that $u^mu u_mu = -1$ then leads to
          $$
          fracdtdtau = sqrtfrac1(1 - 2M/r)(1 - v^2),
          $$

          which is equivalent to the expressions provided.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$










          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Although this is correct, one has to be careful, because the equations with the differentials don't necessarily define actual coordinate functions $tildet$ and $tilder$. The quotation marks around "local coordinates" are very important!
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer is more intuitive to me. The fact that local coordinates are equivalent to flat spacetime is only true exactly at point $p$ where the observer is, correct?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Michael. Just a small correction, $dt/dtau = (1-2M/r)^-1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            5 hours ago













          3












          3








          3





          $begingroup$

          Javier's answer is correct, but here's another way of seeing it: An observer's "local radial coordinate" $tilder$ and "local time coordinate" $tildet$ are defined such that the metric is (locally) $ds^2 = - dtildet^2 + dtilder^2$ (suppressing angular coordinates). It is evident that under this definition, $dtildet = dt sqrt1 - 2M/r $ and $d tilder = dr / sqrt1 - 2M/r$. Thus,
          $$
          -v = fracdtilderdtildet = frac11 - 2M/r fracdrdt.
          $$

          This implies that
          $$
          u^mu = fracdtdtau left( 1, fracdrdt , 0, 0 right) = fracdtdtau left( 1, -left(1 - frac2Mrright) v, 0, 0 right).
          $$

          Further requiring that $u^mu u_mu = -1$ then leads to
          $$
          fracdtdtau = sqrtfrac1(1 - 2M/r)(1 - v^2),
          $$

          which is equivalent to the expressions provided.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Javier's answer is correct, but here's another way of seeing it: An observer's "local radial coordinate" $tilder$ and "local time coordinate" $tildet$ are defined such that the metric is (locally) $ds^2 = - dtildet^2 + dtilder^2$ (suppressing angular coordinates). It is evident that under this definition, $dtildet = dt sqrt1 - 2M/r $ and $d tilder = dr / sqrt1 - 2M/r$. Thus,
          $$
          -v = fracdtilderdtildet = frac11 - 2M/r fracdrdt.
          $$

          This implies that
          $$
          u^mu = fracdtdtau left( 1, fracdrdt , 0, 0 right) = fracdtdtau left( 1, -left(1 - frac2Mrright) v, 0, 0 right).
          $$

          Further requiring that $u^mu u_mu = -1$ then leads to
          $$
          fracdtdtau = sqrtfrac1(1 - 2M/r)(1 - v^2),
          $$

          which is equivalent to the expressions provided.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 2 hours ago

























          answered 7 hours ago









          Michael SeifertMichael Seifert

          17.7k2 gold badges33 silver badges60 bronze badges




          17.7k2 gold badges33 silver badges60 bronze badges










          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Although this is correct, one has to be careful, because the equations with the differentials don't necessarily define actual coordinate functions $tildet$ and $tilder$. The quotation marks around "local coordinates" are very important!
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer is more intuitive to me. The fact that local coordinates are equivalent to flat spacetime is only true exactly at point $p$ where the observer is, correct?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Michael. Just a small correction, $dt/dtau = (1-2M/r)^-1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            5 hours ago












          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Although this is correct, one has to be careful, because the equations with the differentials don't necessarily define actual coordinate functions $tildet$ and $tilder$. The quotation marks around "local coordinates" are very important!
            $endgroup$
            – Javier
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer is more intuitive to me. The fact that local coordinates are equivalent to flat spacetime is only true exactly at point $p$ where the observer is, correct?
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            6 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Michael. Just a small correction, $dt/dtau = (1-2M/r)^-1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – Simon G.
            5 hours ago







          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Although this is correct, one has to be careful, because the equations with the differentials don't necessarily define actual coordinate functions $tildet$ and $tilder$. The quotation marks around "local coordinates" are very important!
          $endgroup$
          – Javier
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Although this is correct, one has to be careful, because the equations with the differentials don't necessarily define actual coordinate functions $tildet$ and $tilder$. The quotation marks around "local coordinates" are very important!
          $endgroup$
          – Javier
          6 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          This answer is more intuitive to me. The fact that local coordinates are equivalent to flat spacetime is only true exactly at point $p$ where the observer is, correct?
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          This answer is more intuitive to me. The fact that local coordinates are equivalent to flat spacetime is only true exactly at point $p$ where the observer is, correct?
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          6 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @Michael. Just a small correction, $dt/dtau = (1-2M/r)^-1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$.
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          5 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @Michael. Just a small correction, $dt/dtau = (1-2M/r)^-1/2(1-v^2)^-1/2$.
          $endgroup$
          – Simon G.
          5 hours ago

















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