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What causes long-running disputes over sovereignty?


What are the current international agreements on the Korean war?How responsible is Ukraine for allowing civil planes to fly over a war zone?Can a country take over another?What is ISIS fighting for?What incentives (or stated motives) did the US have to attack Syria?Why doesn't PRC help install a new leadership or stage a coup to preserve DPRK — or even take it over altogether before the US does?Is Japan still bound by the terms of its surrender in WWII?Why does the US not just accept North Korea's nuclear ambitions and attempt to mend relationships?Congress's power to Declare War vs Authorization to Use Military Forces (AUMF)Why haven’t North Korea already signed a peace treaty with South Korea?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2















There are many disputes that appear pointless in my eyes. These are disputes that seem to have an easy resolution, but which the countries involved continue to fight over.



A couple examples:



  • Taiwan and China. Taiwan is now its own country. It has a different form of government and Beijing doesn't really have a say in its internal affairs. Compared to Taiwan, mainland China is huge. Why don't they just agree to go their own way? If China really believed that Taiwan was still part of China, they would have invaded a long time ago. A huge country such as China would not allow a group to claim sovereignty of an island inside their country.


  • South Korea and Japan over the Liancourt Rocks. This is even more pointless than the Taiwan/China issue. The rocks are uninhabited and practically useless. Why can't one country just give them up or come to an agreement on them being "international"?


  • North Korea and South Korea. Why can't North Korea be recognized as a sovereign country? It has been over 50 years since the Korean War. Yes, technically it didn't end, but in reality it's over. If large-scale fighting broke out, no one would call is just the "Korean War". Most likely it would be the "Second Korean War".


What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?










share|improve this question









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  • Besides my answer, it seems that you think that the People's Republic of China could conquer Republic of China (Taiwan) easily if it wanted, but Taiwan is quite far from PRC, the logistics of a sea invasion are very complicated (specially if the USA steps in) and Taiwan has a significant army. It is not simply that PRC does not want to occupy Taiwan, it would be also very risky if doable at all.

    – SJuan76
    1 hour ago

















2















There are many disputes that appear pointless in my eyes. These are disputes that seem to have an easy resolution, but which the countries involved continue to fight over.



A couple examples:



  • Taiwan and China. Taiwan is now its own country. It has a different form of government and Beijing doesn't really have a say in its internal affairs. Compared to Taiwan, mainland China is huge. Why don't they just agree to go their own way? If China really believed that Taiwan was still part of China, they would have invaded a long time ago. A huge country such as China would not allow a group to claim sovereignty of an island inside their country.


  • South Korea and Japan over the Liancourt Rocks. This is even more pointless than the Taiwan/China issue. The rocks are uninhabited and practically useless. Why can't one country just give them up or come to an agreement on them being "international"?


  • North Korea and South Korea. Why can't North Korea be recognized as a sovereign country? It has been over 50 years since the Korean War. Yes, technically it didn't end, but in reality it's over. If large-scale fighting broke out, no one would call is just the "Korean War". Most likely it would be the "Second Korean War".


What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Jim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • Besides my answer, it seems that you think that the People's Republic of China could conquer Republic of China (Taiwan) easily if it wanted, but Taiwan is quite far from PRC, the logistics of a sea invasion are very complicated (specially if the USA steps in) and Taiwan has a significant army. It is not simply that PRC does not want to occupy Taiwan, it would be also very risky if doable at all.

    – SJuan76
    1 hour ago













2












2








2








There are many disputes that appear pointless in my eyes. These are disputes that seem to have an easy resolution, but which the countries involved continue to fight over.



A couple examples:



  • Taiwan and China. Taiwan is now its own country. It has a different form of government and Beijing doesn't really have a say in its internal affairs. Compared to Taiwan, mainland China is huge. Why don't they just agree to go their own way? If China really believed that Taiwan was still part of China, they would have invaded a long time ago. A huge country such as China would not allow a group to claim sovereignty of an island inside their country.


  • South Korea and Japan over the Liancourt Rocks. This is even more pointless than the Taiwan/China issue. The rocks are uninhabited and practically useless. Why can't one country just give them up or come to an agreement on them being "international"?


  • North Korea and South Korea. Why can't North Korea be recognized as a sovereign country? It has been over 50 years since the Korean War. Yes, technically it didn't end, but in reality it's over. If large-scale fighting broke out, no one would call is just the "Korean War". Most likely it would be the "Second Korean War".


What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Jim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











There are many disputes that appear pointless in my eyes. These are disputes that seem to have an easy resolution, but which the countries involved continue to fight over.



A couple examples:



  • Taiwan and China. Taiwan is now its own country. It has a different form of government and Beijing doesn't really have a say in its internal affairs. Compared to Taiwan, mainland China is huge. Why don't they just agree to go their own way? If China really believed that Taiwan was still part of China, they would have invaded a long time ago. A huge country such as China would not allow a group to claim sovereignty of an island inside their country.


  • South Korea and Japan over the Liancourt Rocks. This is even more pointless than the Taiwan/China issue. The rocks are uninhabited and practically useless. Why can't one country just give them up or come to an agreement on them being "international"?


  • North Korea and South Korea. Why can't North Korea be recognized as a sovereign country? It has been over 50 years since the Korean War. Yes, technically it didn't end, but in reality it's over. If large-scale fighting broke out, no one would call is just the "Korean War". Most likely it would be the "Second Korean War".


What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?







war territorial-dispute






share|improve this question









New contributor



Jim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










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share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago









Brythan

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asked 9 hours ago









JimJim

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  • Besides my answer, it seems that you think that the People's Republic of China could conquer Republic of China (Taiwan) easily if it wanted, but Taiwan is quite far from PRC, the logistics of a sea invasion are very complicated (specially if the USA steps in) and Taiwan has a significant army. It is not simply that PRC does not want to occupy Taiwan, it would be also very risky if doable at all.

    – SJuan76
    1 hour ago

















  • Besides my answer, it seems that you think that the People's Republic of China could conquer Republic of China (Taiwan) easily if it wanted, but Taiwan is quite far from PRC, the logistics of a sea invasion are very complicated (specially if the USA steps in) and Taiwan has a significant army. It is not simply that PRC does not want to occupy Taiwan, it would be also very risky if doable at all.

    – SJuan76
    1 hour ago
















Besides my answer, it seems that you think that the People's Republic of China could conquer Republic of China (Taiwan) easily if it wanted, but Taiwan is quite far from PRC, the logistics of a sea invasion are very complicated (specially if the USA steps in) and Taiwan has a significant army. It is not simply that PRC does not want to occupy Taiwan, it would be also very risky if doable at all.

– SJuan76
1 hour ago





Besides my answer, it seems that you think that the People's Republic of China could conquer Republic of China (Taiwan) easily if it wanted, but Taiwan is quite far from PRC, the logistics of a sea invasion are very complicated (specially if the USA steps in) and Taiwan has a significant army. It is not simply that PRC does not want to occupy Taiwan, it would be also very risky if doable at all.

– SJuan76
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















5














The two main drivers are nationalism and economics



  • Taiwan/China: Compare with Alsace-Lorraine. (It's not exactly similar, but with the US backing Taiwan it's not like China can just send troops to bring the seditious island back in line. While you're at it, also notice that there's no Poland on the article's map of Germany.)


  • South Korea/Japan over the Liancourt Rocks: The rocks come with fishing rights, and possible resources on or under the ocean floor. Economics is usually enough to keep interests high for a long time, and can even revive interests when the situation evolves (see e.g. Navassa Island).


  • North/South Korea: Compare with the German reunification.


Sometimes it's just spite or plain vengefulness. The 1870-1871 war between France and Germany ended with the latter spanking the former and demanding 5 billion Francs of reparation (which then was about 20% of GDP). In modern dollar equivalent, that would be like asking a bit over 4 trillion dollars of war reparations to the US. The reason Bismarck asked for that much was that Napoleon spanked Prussia earlier that century and demanded 20% of GDP worth of war reparations as part of the peace deal.






share|improve this answer























  • There are also more 'friendly' examples, such as Hans Island, between Canada and Greenland/Denmark. Also leads to another main driver for it being ongoing: Not being important enough to actually resolve.

    – TheLuckless
    2 hours ago











  • @TheLuckless And much less "friendly" ones, such as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

    – JAB
    2 hours ago


















3















What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?




While I agree with Denis de Bernardy's reason for the origin of the conflict, I would think of it the other way around... what reason would a country have for closing these disputes?



If the leadership of some country came to renounce some claim:



  • it would amount to recognizing that the country position was wrong all along, and that any sacrifices and efforts taken towards the claim (including wars) were futile.


  • it would amount that the country has no effective means of enforcing its position. Recognizing your own country's weakness is something that never looks good on a government.


  • it would give the internal opposition an argument against the government, accussing them of treason and allowing the opposition to claim that, if they were in power, they would move forward to solve the conflict by achieving the claims.


  • it gives the country a bargaining chip towards the other country; for example "agree to this trade deal in our favour and we will keep quiet about our claims for the time being".


  • in times of crisis, a foreign enemy/rival can be useful in getting the people to rally behind the government, and such a conflict give an "already ready" rival.


  • in most situations, it does not actually commit the government to any other action that keeping the status quo. So you can keep your claims while otherwise keeping a relatively friendly relationship with the other country, if it is convenient.


The main drawbacks is that the government may lose face if the other country acts to assert its rights; for example if two countries claim an uninhabited island and one of the country begins building a base on it, the lack of answer would be an embarassment for the government and an answer could risk escalation.



And as a side note, there is the issue of survivorship bias: you are most aware of the long running conflicts because there is little talk about those conflicts that have been already solved; for example Great Britain and Portugal returning Hong Kong and Macau to China, Germany's border with Poland... That makes it look like as if those conflicts never were resolved at all, but that is not the case.






share|improve this answer

























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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    5














    The two main drivers are nationalism and economics



    • Taiwan/China: Compare with Alsace-Lorraine. (It's not exactly similar, but with the US backing Taiwan it's not like China can just send troops to bring the seditious island back in line. While you're at it, also notice that there's no Poland on the article's map of Germany.)


    • South Korea/Japan over the Liancourt Rocks: The rocks come with fishing rights, and possible resources on or under the ocean floor. Economics is usually enough to keep interests high for a long time, and can even revive interests when the situation evolves (see e.g. Navassa Island).


    • North/South Korea: Compare with the German reunification.


    Sometimes it's just spite or plain vengefulness. The 1870-1871 war between France and Germany ended with the latter spanking the former and demanding 5 billion Francs of reparation (which then was about 20% of GDP). In modern dollar equivalent, that would be like asking a bit over 4 trillion dollars of war reparations to the US. The reason Bismarck asked for that much was that Napoleon spanked Prussia earlier that century and demanded 20% of GDP worth of war reparations as part of the peace deal.






    share|improve this answer























    • There are also more 'friendly' examples, such as Hans Island, between Canada and Greenland/Denmark. Also leads to another main driver for it being ongoing: Not being important enough to actually resolve.

      – TheLuckless
      2 hours ago











    • @TheLuckless And much less "friendly" ones, such as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

      – JAB
      2 hours ago















    5














    The two main drivers are nationalism and economics



    • Taiwan/China: Compare with Alsace-Lorraine. (It's not exactly similar, but with the US backing Taiwan it's not like China can just send troops to bring the seditious island back in line. While you're at it, also notice that there's no Poland on the article's map of Germany.)


    • South Korea/Japan over the Liancourt Rocks: The rocks come with fishing rights, and possible resources on or under the ocean floor. Economics is usually enough to keep interests high for a long time, and can even revive interests when the situation evolves (see e.g. Navassa Island).


    • North/South Korea: Compare with the German reunification.


    Sometimes it's just spite or plain vengefulness. The 1870-1871 war between France and Germany ended with the latter spanking the former and demanding 5 billion Francs of reparation (which then was about 20% of GDP). In modern dollar equivalent, that would be like asking a bit over 4 trillion dollars of war reparations to the US. The reason Bismarck asked for that much was that Napoleon spanked Prussia earlier that century and demanded 20% of GDP worth of war reparations as part of the peace deal.






    share|improve this answer























    • There are also more 'friendly' examples, such as Hans Island, between Canada and Greenland/Denmark. Also leads to another main driver for it being ongoing: Not being important enough to actually resolve.

      – TheLuckless
      2 hours ago











    • @TheLuckless And much less "friendly" ones, such as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

      – JAB
      2 hours ago













    5












    5








    5







    The two main drivers are nationalism and economics



    • Taiwan/China: Compare with Alsace-Lorraine. (It's not exactly similar, but with the US backing Taiwan it's not like China can just send troops to bring the seditious island back in line. While you're at it, also notice that there's no Poland on the article's map of Germany.)


    • South Korea/Japan over the Liancourt Rocks: The rocks come with fishing rights, and possible resources on or under the ocean floor. Economics is usually enough to keep interests high for a long time, and can even revive interests when the situation evolves (see e.g. Navassa Island).


    • North/South Korea: Compare with the German reunification.


    Sometimes it's just spite or plain vengefulness. The 1870-1871 war between France and Germany ended with the latter spanking the former and demanding 5 billion Francs of reparation (which then was about 20% of GDP). In modern dollar equivalent, that would be like asking a bit over 4 trillion dollars of war reparations to the US. The reason Bismarck asked for that much was that Napoleon spanked Prussia earlier that century and demanded 20% of GDP worth of war reparations as part of the peace deal.






    share|improve this answer













    The two main drivers are nationalism and economics



    • Taiwan/China: Compare with Alsace-Lorraine. (It's not exactly similar, but with the US backing Taiwan it's not like China can just send troops to bring the seditious island back in line. While you're at it, also notice that there's no Poland on the article's map of Germany.)


    • South Korea/Japan over the Liancourt Rocks: The rocks come with fishing rights, and possible resources on or under the ocean floor. Economics is usually enough to keep interests high for a long time, and can even revive interests when the situation evolves (see e.g. Navassa Island).


    • North/South Korea: Compare with the German reunification.


    Sometimes it's just spite or plain vengefulness. The 1870-1871 war between France and Germany ended with the latter spanking the former and demanding 5 billion Francs of reparation (which then was about 20% of GDP). In modern dollar equivalent, that would be like asking a bit over 4 trillion dollars of war reparations to the US. The reason Bismarck asked for that much was that Napoleon spanked Prussia earlier that century and demanded 20% of GDP worth of war reparations as part of the peace deal.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 7 hours ago









    Denis de BernardyDenis de Bernardy

    21.8k5 gold badges61 silver badges89 bronze badges




    21.8k5 gold badges61 silver badges89 bronze badges












    • There are also more 'friendly' examples, such as Hans Island, between Canada and Greenland/Denmark. Also leads to another main driver for it being ongoing: Not being important enough to actually resolve.

      – TheLuckless
      2 hours ago











    • @TheLuckless And much less "friendly" ones, such as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

      – JAB
      2 hours ago

















    • There are also more 'friendly' examples, such as Hans Island, between Canada and Greenland/Denmark. Also leads to another main driver for it being ongoing: Not being important enough to actually resolve.

      – TheLuckless
      2 hours ago











    • @TheLuckless And much less "friendly" ones, such as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

      – JAB
      2 hours ago
















    There are also more 'friendly' examples, such as Hans Island, between Canada and Greenland/Denmark. Also leads to another main driver for it being ongoing: Not being important enough to actually resolve.

    – TheLuckless
    2 hours ago





    There are also more 'friendly' examples, such as Hans Island, between Canada and Greenland/Denmark. Also leads to another main driver for it being ongoing: Not being important enough to actually resolve.

    – TheLuckless
    2 hours ago













    @TheLuckless And much less "friendly" ones, such as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

    – JAB
    2 hours ago





    @TheLuckless And much less "friendly" ones, such as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

    – JAB
    2 hours ago













    3















    What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?




    While I agree with Denis de Bernardy's reason for the origin of the conflict, I would think of it the other way around... what reason would a country have for closing these disputes?



    If the leadership of some country came to renounce some claim:



    • it would amount to recognizing that the country position was wrong all along, and that any sacrifices and efforts taken towards the claim (including wars) were futile.


    • it would amount that the country has no effective means of enforcing its position. Recognizing your own country's weakness is something that never looks good on a government.


    • it would give the internal opposition an argument against the government, accussing them of treason and allowing the opposition to claim that, if they were in power, they would move forward to solve the conflict by achieving the claims.


    • it gives the country a bargaining chip towards the other country; for example "agree to this trade deal in our favour and we will keep quiet about our claims for the time being".


    • in times of crisis, a foreign enemy/rival can be useful in getting the people to rally behind the government, and such a conflict give an "already ready" rival.


    • in most situations, it does not actually commit the government to any other action that keeping the status quo. So you can keep your claims while otherwise keeping a relatively friendly relationship with the other country, if it is convenient.


    The main drawbacks is that the government may lose face if the other country acts to assert its rights; for example if two countries claim an uninhabited island and one of the country begins building a base on it, the lack of answer would be an embarassment for the government and an answer could risk escalation.



    And as a side note, there is the issue of survivorship bias: you are most aware of the long running conflicts because there is little talk about those conflicts that have been already solved; for example Great Britain and Portugal returning Hong Kong and Macau to China, Germany's border with Poland... That makes it look like as if those conflicts never were resolved at all, but that is not the case.






    share|improve this answer



























      3















      What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?




      While I agree with Denis de Bernardy's reason for the origin of the conflict, I would think of it the other way around... what reason would a country have for closing these disputes?



      If the leadership of some country came to renounce some claim:



      • it would amount to recognizing that the country position was wrong all along, and that any sacrifices and efforts taken towards the claim (including wars) were futile.


      • it would amount that the country has no effective means of enforcing its position. Recognizing your own country's weakness is something that never looks good on a government.


      • it would give the internal opposition an argument against the government, accussing them of treason and allowing the opposition to claim that, if they were in power, they would move forward to solve the conflict by achieving the claims.


      • it gives the country a bargaining chip towards the other country; for example "agree to this trade deal in our favour and we will keep quiet about our claims for the time being".


      • in times of crisis, a foreign enemy/rival can be useful in getting the people to rally behind the government, and such a conflict give an "already ready" rival.


      • in most situations, it does not actually commit the government to any other action that keeping the status quo. So you can keep your claims while otherwise keeping a relatively friendly relationship with the other country, if it is convenient.


      The main drawbacks is that the government may lose face if the other country acts to assert its rights; for example if two countries claim an uninhabited island and one of the country begins building a base on it, the lack of answer would be an embarassment for the government and an answer could risk escalation.



      And as a side note, there is the issue of survivorship bias: you are most aware of the long running conflicts because there is little talk about those conflicts that have been already solved; for example Great Britain and Portugal returning Hong Kong and Macau to China, Germany's border with Poland... That makes it look like as if those conflicts never were resolved at all, but that is not the case.






      share|improve this answer

























        3












        3








        3








        What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?




        While I agree with Denis de Bernardy's reason for the origin of the conflict, I would think of it the other way around... what reason would a country have for closing these disputes?



        If the leadership of some country came to renounce some claim:



        • it would amount to recognizing that the country position was wrong all along, and that any sacrifices and efforts taken towards the claim (including wars) were futile.


        • it would amount that the country has no effective means of enforcing its position. Recognizing your own country's weakness is something that never looks good on a government.


        • it would give the internal opposition an argument against the government, accussing them of treason and allowing the opposition to claim that, if they were in power, they would move forward to solve the conflict by achieving the claims.


        • it gives the country a bargaining chip towards the other country; for example "agree to this trade deal in our favour and we will keep quiet about our claims for the time being".


        • in times of crisis, a foreign enemy/rival can be useful in getting the people to rally behind the government, and such a conflict give an "already ready" rival.


        • in most situations, it does not actually commit the government to any other action that keeping the status quo. So you can keep your claims while otherwise keeping a relatively friendly relationship with the other country, if it is convenient.


        The main drawbacks is that the government may lose face if the other country acts to assert its rights; for example if two countries claim an uninhabited island and one of the country begins building a base on it, the lack of answer would be an embarassment for the government and an answer could risk escalation.



        And as a side note, there is the issue of survivorship bias: you are most aware of the long running conflicts because there is little talk about those conflicts that have been already solved; for example Great Britain and Portugal returning Hong Kong and Macau to China, Germany's border with Poland... That makes it look like as if those conflicts never were resolved at all, but that is not the case.






        share|improve this answer














        What reason would a country have for keeping these disputes open?




        While I agree with Denis de Bernardy's reason for the origin of the conflict, I would think of it the other way around... what reason would a country have for closing these disputes?



        If the leadership of some country came to renounce some claim:



        • it would amount to recognizing that the country position was wrong all along, and that any sacrifices and efforts taken towards the claim (including wars) were futile.


        • it would amount that the country has no effective means of enforcing its position. Recognizing your own country's weakness is something that never looks good on a government.


        • it would give the internal opposition an argument against the government, accussing them of treason and allowing the opposition to claim that, if they were in power, they would move forward to solve the conflict by achieving the claims.


        • it gives the country a bargaining chip towards the other country; for example "agree to this trade deal in our favour and we will keep quiet about our claims for the time being".


        • in times of crisis, a foreign enemy/rival can be useful in getting the people to rally behind the government, and such a conflict give an "already ready" rival.


        • in most situations, it does not actually commit the government to any other action that keeping the status quo. So you can keep your claims while otherwise keeping a relatively friendly relationship with the other country, if it is convenient.


        The main drawbacks is that the government may lose face if the other country acts to assert its rights; for example if two countries claim an uninhabited island and one of the country begins building a base on it, the lack of answer would be an embarassment for the government and an answer could risk escalation.



        And as a side note, there is the issue of survivorship bias: you are most aware of the long running conflicts because there is little talk about those conflicts that have been already solved; for example Great Britain and Portugal returning Hong Kong and Macau to China, Germany's border with Poland... That makes it look like as if those conflicts never were resolved at all, but that is not the case.







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