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Those who speak do not know, those who know do not speak


How did the phrase “much of a muchness” come to be?Is ‘Not a peep’ an idiom, or just plain statement?Phrase concerning “concealing a weapon”Something as an “antechamber” for something else“Can't you see the person is embroidering?” - idiomaticity and alternatives?You can only do so many of them'not fool enough to dance on the old strings', is it an idiom? This phrase is from 'The Invisible Man' by H.G WellsDoes “the military” refer to any military?There is X and XA donkey does not know what kind of fruit persimmon is






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








3















We have this idiom-like saying in Turkish. The idea is that there are certain things, topics, etc., if one talks about it, it strongly suggests that he has no idea what he is talking about, else he wouldn't be talking about it (or bragging about it) at all. Though not a one to one analogy, it is like a man in the bar telling the chicks that he is a spy; if he was a spy, he wouldn't be talking about it.



Is there a similar saying or idiom in English?










share|improve this question






















  • I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "idiom", but It's the quiet ones you have to watch gets an awful lot of hits in Google Books. For your "spy" context, perhaps we can go back to Shakespeare (Hamlet) with The lady doth protest too much, methinks (which practically everyone "misquotes" by moving Methinks to the front in modern facetious usages).

    – FumbleFingers
    6 hours ago












  • I've certainly heard the same sentiment before, in more or less those words. It's not common, though. (Or at least those who know more about it are reluctant to speak.)

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago


















3















We have this idiom-like saying in Turkish. The idea is that there are certain things, topics, etc., if one talks about it, it strongly suggests that he has no idea what he is talking about, else he wouldn't be talking about it (or bragging about it) at all. Though not a one to one analogy, it is like a man in the bar telling the chicks that he is a spy; if he was a spy, he wouldn't be talking about it.



Is there a similar saying or idiom in English?










share|improve this question






















  • I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "idiom", but It's the quiet ones you have to watch gets an awful lot of hits in Google Books. For your "spy" context, perhaps we can go back to Shakespeare (Hamlet) with The lady doth protest too much, methinks (which practically everyone "misquotes" by moving Methinks to the front in modern facetious usages).

    – FumbleFingers
    6 hours ago












  • I've certainly heard the same sentiment before, in more or less those words. It's not common, though. (Or at least those who know more about it are reluctant to speak.)

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago














3












3








3


1






We have this idiom-like saying in Turkish. The idea is that there are certain things, topics, etc., if one talks about it, it strongly suggests that he has no idea what he is talking about, else he wouldn't be talking about it (or bragging about it) at all. Though not a one to one analogy, it is like a man in the bar telling the chicks that he is a spy; if he was a spy, he wouldn't be talking about it.



Is there a similar saying or idiom in English?










share|improve this question














We have this idiom-like saying in Turkish. The idea is that there are certain things, topics, etc., if one talks about it, it strongly suggests that he has no idea what he is talking about, else he wouldn't be talking about it (or bragging about it) at all. Though not a one to one analogy, it is like a man in the bar telling the chicks that he is a spy; if he was a spy, he wouldn't be talking about it.



Is there a similar saying or idiom in English?







idioms






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









blackenedblackened

5312 gold badges8 silver badges17 bronze badges




5312 gold badges8 silver badges17 bronze badges












  • I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "idiom", but It's the quiet ones you have to watch gets an awful lot of hits in Google Books. For your "spy" context, perhaps we can go back to Shakespeare (Hamlet) with The lady doth protest too much, methinks (which practically everyone "misquotes" by moving Methinks to the front in modern facetious usages).

    – FumbleFingers
    6 hours ago












  • I've certainly heard the same sentiment before, in more or less those words. It's not common, though. (Or at least those who know more about it are reluctant to speak.)

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago


















  • I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "idiom", but It's the quiet ones you have to watch gets an awful lot of hits in Google Books. For your "spy" context, perhaps we can go back to Shakespeare (Hamlet) with The lady doth protest too much, methinks (which practically everyone "misquotes" by moving Methinks to the front in modern facetious usages).

    – FumbleFingers
    6 hours ago












  • I've certainly heard the same sentiment before, in more or less those words. It's not common, though. (Or at least those who know more about it are reluctant to speak.)

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago

















I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "idiom", but It's the quiet ones you have to watch gets an awful lot of hits in Google Books. For your "spy" context, perhaps we can go back to Shakespeare (Hamlet) with The lady doth protest too much, methinks (which practically everyone "misquotes" by moving Methinks to the front in modern facetious usages).

– FumbleFingers
6 hours ago






I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "idiom", but It's the quiet ones you have to watch gets an awful lot of hits in Google Books. For your "spy" context, perhaps we can go back to Shakespeare (Hamlet) with The lady doth protest too much, methinks (which practically everyone "misquotes" by moving Methinks to the front in modern facetious usages).

– FumbleFingers
6 hours ago














I've certainly heard the same sentiment before, in more or less those words. It's not common, though. (Or at least those who know more about it are reluctant to speak.)

– Hot Licks
4 hours ago






I've certainly heard the same sentiment before, in more or less those words. It's not common, though. (Or at least those who know more about it are reluctant to speak.)

– Hot Licks
4 hours ago











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2














There's a famous quote from George R.R. Martin:




"any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all."




Source: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/753661-and-any-man-who-must-say-i-am-king-is



But that's just a quote from a novel, not a bonafide english idiom.






share|improve this answer






























    2














    That saying is common in many languages, including English, and often attributed to a Chinese philosopher, Lao Tzu, believed to live around 600 BC, who is believed by many to be the author of the book "Tao Te Ching", a fundamental text for both philosophical and religious Taoism.




    “Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know. Close your
    mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots,
    soften your glare, settle your dust. This is the primal identity. Be
    like the Tao. It can’t be approached or withdrawn from, benefited or
    harmed, honored or brought into disgrace. It gives itself up
    continually. That is why it endures.”




    Tao Te Ching






    share|improve this answer






























      0














      Martin Manser, The Facts on File Dictionary of Proverbs (2002) reports that the following anglicized (from Italian) proverb comes closest to the sense of the Turkish/Chinese proverb that the poster asks about:




      who knows most, speaks least Wise or knowledgeable people say little: Don't be misled by her reserved manner—who knows most, speaks less. The proverb was first recorded in 1666, in an Italian proverb collection.




      The earliest instance of this proverb that a Google Books search turns up is from Petroleum Times, volume 21 (1929) [snippet view]:




      The menu card was very unique, being cast in the shape of a petrol pump. It was full of humour and quaint sayings. Underneath the toast list one read: “He who knows most speaks least,” consequently, the speeches were commendably brief.




      Manser also has an entry for the exact phrase that the OP asks about (albeit in reverse order):




      those who know don't speak; those who speak don't know Those who talk most volubly are usually those who know the least about the subject in question: The more you say, the more you show your ignorance—have you never heard the proverb "Those who know don't speak and those speak don't know"? Of ancient Chinese origin, the proverb was first recorded in English in 1948.




      Actually, a sermon titled "Those who know, don't speak! those who speak, don't know" is announced for Christ Church in the [Moama, New South Wales] Riverine Herald on February 8, 1941. One can only hope that the sermon was short and to the point.



      Whether either of these apothegms qualifies as a truly naturalized English proverb at this point is subject to individual interpretation. Neither is especially abundant in English usage, as far as I know, but both have appeared in English publications, going back at least seven decades.






      share|improve this answer

























        Your Answer








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        3 Answers
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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        2














        There's a famous quote from George R.R. Martin:




        "any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all."




        Source: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/753661-and-any-man-who-must-say-i-am-king-is



        But that's just a quote from a novel, not a bonafide english idiom.






        share|improve this answer



























          2














          There's a famous quote from George R.R. Martin:




          "any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all."




          Source: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/753661-and-any-man-who-must-say-i-am-king-is



          But that's just a quote from a novel, not a bonafide english idiom.






          share|improve this answer

























            2












            2








            2







            There's a famous quote from George R.R. Martin:




            "any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all."




            Source: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/753661-and-any-man-who-must-say-i-am-king-is



            But that's just a quote from a novel, not a bonafide english idiom.






            share|improve this answer













            There's a famous quote from George R.R. Martin:




            "any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all."




            Source: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/753661-and-any-man-who-must-say-i-am-king-is



            But that's just a quote from a novel, not a bonafide english idiom.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 8 hours ago









            BenjaminBenjamin

            2987 bronze badges




            2987 bronze badges























                2














                That saying is common in many languages, including English, and often attributed to a Chinese philosopher, Lao Tzu, believed to live around 600 BC, who is believed by many to be the author of the book "Tao Te Ching", a fundamental text for both philosophical and religious Taoism.




                “Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know. Close your
                mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots,
                soften your glare, settle your dust. This is the primal identity. Be
                like the Tao. It can’t be approached or withdrawn from, benefited or
                harmed, honored or brought into disgrace. It gives itself up
                continually. That is why it endures.”




                Tao Te Ching






                share|improve this answer



























                  2














                  That saying is common in many languages, including English, and often attributed to a Chinese philosopher, Lao Tzu, believed to live around 600 BC, who is believed by many to be the author of the book "Tao Te Ching", a fundamental text for both philosophical and religious Taoism.




                  “Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know. Close your
                  mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots,
                  soften your glare, settle your dust. This is the primal identity. Be
                  like the Tao. It can’t be approached or withdrawn from, benefited or
                  harmed, honored or brought into disgrace. It gives itself up
                  continually. That is why it endures.”




                  Tao Te Ching






                  share|improve this answer

























                    2












                    2








                    2







                    That saying is common in many languages, including English, and often attributed to a Chinese philosopher, Lao Tzu, believed to live around 600 BC, who is believed by many to be the author of the book "Tao Te Ching", a fundamental text for both philosophical and religious Taoism.




                    “Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know. Close your
                    mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots,
                    soften your glare, settle your dust. This is the primal identity. Be
                    like the Tao. It can’t be approached or withdrawn from, benefited or
                    harmed, honored or brought into disgrace. It gives itself up
                    continually. That is why it endures.”




                    Tao Te Ching






                    share|improve this answer













                    That saying is common in many languages, including English, and often attributed to a Chinese philosopher, Lao Tzu, believed to live around 600 BC, who is believed by many to be the author of the book "Tao Te Ching", a fundamental text for both philosophical and religious Taoism.




                    “Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know. Close your
                    mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots,
                    soften your glare, settle your dust. This is the primal identity. Be
                    like the Tao. It can’t be approached or withdrawn from, benefited or
                    harmed, honored or brought into disgrace. It gives itself up
                    continually. That is why it endures.”




                    Tao Te Ching







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 7 hours ago









                    Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

                    7,7061 gold badge13 silver badges22 bronze badges




                    7,7061 gold badge13 silver badges22 bronze badges





















                        0














                        Martin Manser, The Facts on File Dictionary of Proverbs (2002) reports that the following anglicized (from Italian) proverb comes closest to the sense of the Turkish/Chinese proverb that the poster asks about:




                        who knows most, speaks least Wise or knowledgeable people say little: Don't be misled by her reserved manner—who knows most, speaks less. The proverb was first recorded in 1666, in an Italian proverb collection.




                        The earliest instance of this proverb that a Google Books search turns up is from Petroleum Times, volume 21 (1929) [snippet view]:




                        The menu card was very unique, being cast in the shape of a petrol pump. It was full of humour and quaint sayings. Underneath the toast list one read: “He who knows most speaks least,” consequently, the speeches were commendably brief.




                        Manser also has an entry for the exact phrase that the OP asks about (albeit in reverse order):




                        those who know don't speak; those who speak don't know Those who talk most volubly are usually those who know the least about the subject in question: The more you say, the more you show your ignorance—have you never heard the proverb "Those who know don't speak and those speak don't know"? Of ancient Chinese origin, the proverb was first recorded in English in 1948.




                        Actually, a sermon titled "Those who know, don't speak! those who speak, don't know" is announced for Christ Church in the [Moama, New South Wales] Riverine Herald on February 8, 1941. One can only hope that the sermon was short and to the point.



                        Whether either of these apothegms qualifies as a truly naturalized English proverb at this point is subject to individual interpretation. Neither is especially abundant in English usage, as far as I know, but both have appeared in English publications, going back at least seven decades.






                        share|improve this answer



























                          0














                          Martin Manser, The Facts on File Dictionary of Proverbs (2002) reports that the following anglicized (from Italian) proverb comes closest to the sense of the Turkish/Chinese proverb that the poster asks about:




                          who knows most, speaks least Wise or knowledgeable people say little: Don't be misled by her reserved manner—who knows most, speaks less. The proverb was first recorded in 1666, in an Italian proverb collection.




                          The earliest instance of this proverb that a Google Books search turns up is from Petroleum Times, volume 21 (1929) [snippet view]:




                          The menu card was very unique, being cast in the shape of a petrol pump. It was full of humour and quaint sayings. Underneath the toast list one read: “He who knows most speaks least,” consequently, the speeches were commendably brief.




                          Manser also has an entry for the exact phrase that the OP asks about (albeit in reverse order):




                          those who know don't speak; those who speak don't know Those who talk most volubly are usually those who know the least about the subject in question: The more you say, the more you show your ignorance—have you never heard the proverb "Those who know don't speak and those speak don't know"? Of ancient Chinese origin, the proverb was first recorded in English in 1948.




                          Actually, a sermon titled "Those who know, don't speak! those who speak, don't know" is announced for Christ Church in the [Moama, New South Wales] Riverine Herald on February 8, 1941. One can only hope that the sermon was short and to the point.



                          Whether either of these apothegms qualifies as a truly naturalized English proverb at this point is subject to individual interpretation. Neither is especially abundant in English usage, as far as I know, but both have appeared in English publications, going back at least seven decades.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            Martin Manser, The Facts on File Dictionary of Proverbs (2002) reports that the following anglicized (from Italian) proverb comes closest to the sense of the Turkish/Chinese proverb that the poster asks about:




                            who knows most, speaks least Wise or knowledgeable people say little: Don't be misled by her reserved manner—who knows most, speaks less. The proverb was first recorded in 1666, in an Italian proverb collection.




                            The earliest instance of this proverb that a Google Books search turns up is from Petroleum Times, volume 21 (1929) [snippet view]:




                            The menu card was very unique, being cast in the shape of a petrol pump. It was full of humour and quaint sayings. Underneath the toast list one read: “He who knows most speaks least,” consequently, the speeches were commendably brief.




                            Manser also has an entry for the exact phrase that the OP asks about (albeit in reverse order):




                            those who know don't speak; those who speak don't know Those who talk most volubly are usually those who know the least about the subject in question: The more you say, the more you show your ignorance—have you never heard the proverb "Those who know don't speak and those speak don't know"? Of ancient Chinese origin, the proverb was first recorded in English in 1948.




                            Actually, a sermon titled "Those who know, don't speak! those who speak, don't know" is announced for Christ Church in the [Moama, New South Wales] Riverine Herald on February 8, 1941. One can only hope that the sermon was short and to the point.



                            Whether either of these apothegms qualifies as a truly naturalized English proverb at this point is subject to individual interpretation. Neither is especially abundant in English usage, as far as I know, but both have appeared in English publications, going back at least seven decades.






                            share|improve this answer













                            Martin Manser, The Facts on File Dictionary of Proverbs (2002) reports that the following anglicized (from Italian) proverb comes closest to the sense of the Turkish/Chinese proverb that the poster asks about:




                            who knows most, speaks least Wise or knowledgeable people say little: Don't be misled by her reserved manner—who knows most, speaks less. The proverb was first recorded in 1666, in an Italian proverb collection.




                            The earliest instance of this proverb that a Google Books search turns up is from Petroleum Times, volume 21 (1929) [snippet view]:




                            The menu card was very unique, being cast in the shape of a petrol pump. It was full of humour and quaint sayings. Underneath the toast list one read: “He who knows most speaks least,” consequently, the speeches were commendably brief.




                            Manser also has an entry for the exact phrase that the OP asks about (albeit in reverse order):




                            those who know don't speak; those who speak don't know Those who talk most volubly are usually those who know the least about the subject in question: The more you say, the more you show your ignorance—have you never heard the proverb "Those who know don't speak and those speak don't know"? Of ancient Chinese origin, the proverb was first recorded in English in 1948.




                            Actually, a sermon titled "Those who know, don't speak! those who speak, don't know" is announced for Christ Church in the [Moama, New South Wales] Riverine Herald on February 8, 1941. One can only hope that the sermon was short and to the point.



                            Whether either of these apothegms qualifies as a truly naturalized English proverb at this point is subject to individual interpretation. Neither is especially abundant in English usage, as far as I know, but both have appeared in English publications, going back at least seven decades.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 4 hours ago









                            Sven YargsSven Yargs

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