Why are MBA programs closing in the United States?Professorship without PhD in the United StatesHow are British PhDs looked upon in the United States?United States PhD fast-trackWhy dissertation has no score in GPA in United States?Immigration and tenure track in the United StatesEngineering degree structure in the United StatesHow many academic STEM PIs are there in the United States?Why do many graduate programs in mathematics (United States) still have foreign language requirements today (in 2010s)?Why do most mathematics PhD programs in United States have rigid qualifying and breadth requirements for every PhD student?Moving to a different PhD program in the United States
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Why are MBA programs closing in the United States?
Professorship without PhD in the United StatesHow are British PhDs looked upon in the United States?United States PhD fast-trackWhy dissertation has no score in GPA in United States?Immigration and tenure track in the United StatesEngineering degree structure in the United StatesHow many academic STEM PIs are there in the United States?Why do many graduate programs in mathematics (United States) still have foreign language requirements today (in 2010s)?Why do most mathematics PhD programs in United States have rigid qualifying and breadth requirements for every PhD student?Moving to a different PhD program in the United States
There are various reports about full-time, on-campus MBA programs closing its doors, and also reports about applications dropping steeply.
For example, in summarizing from a 2018 report [PDF]:
Applications in the United States are down 6.6 percent -- while they are growing in Asia, Canada and Europe.
–"M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)", (2018-10-08)
Why is this happening?
Even the top business schools such as Harvard and Stanford are seeing declines over the last several years.
graduate-school masters career-path united-states
New contributor
add a comment |
There are various reports about full-time, on-campus MBA programs closing its doors, and also reports about applications dropping steeply.
For example, in summarizing from a 2018 report [PDF]:
Applications in the United States are down 6.6 percent -- while they are growing in Asia, Canada and Europe.
–"M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)", (2018-10-08)
Why is this happening?
Even the top business schools such as Harvard and Stanford are seeing declines over the last several years.
graduate-school masters career-path united-states
New contributor
4
Kaplan did a survey on it - is this what you are looking for? Original: kaptest.com/blog/press/2019/01/30/… Reporting by Inside Higher Ed: insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/02/04/… It may not be the actual reasons for numbers changing, but its what they report B-schools cited as the reason. Take with many large grains of salt.
– BrianH
yesterday
1
The answers seem specific to USA. Is the question also country-specific?
– Tommi Brander
16 hours ago
2
Nobody wants an MBA anymore. What's the point? I don't believe an MBA makes you more likely to run a company or be a good manager. Besides, everyone is piling into data analytics programs.
– duffymo
9 hours ago
add a comment |
There are various reports about full-time, on-campus MBA programs closing its doors, and also reports about applications dropping steeply.
For example, in summarizing from a 2018 report [PDF]:
Applications in the United States are down 6.6 percent -- while they are growing in Asia, Canada and Europe.
–"M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)", (2018-10-08)
Why is this happening?
Even the top business schools such as Harvard and Stanford are seeing declines over the last several years.
graduate-school masters career-path united-states
New contributor
There are various reports about full-time, on-campus MBA programs closing its doors, and also reports about applications dropping steeply.
For example, in summarizing from a 2018 report [PDF]:
Applications in the United States are down 6.6 percent -- while they are growing in Asia, Canada and Europe.
–"M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)", (2018-10-08)
Why is this happening?
Even the top business schools such as Harvard and Stanford are seeing declines over the last several years.
graduate-school masters career-path united-states
graduate-school masters career-path united-states
New contributor
New contributor
edited 30 mins ago
Franck Dernoncourt
17.9k16102236
17.9k16102236
New contributor
asked yesterday
user109593user109593
6914
6914
New contributor
New contributor
4
Kaplan did a survey on it - is this what you are looking for? Original: kaptest.com/blog/press/2019/01/30/… Reporting by Inside Higher Ed: insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/02/04/… It may not be the actual reasons for numbers changing, but its what they report B-schools cited as the reason. Take with many large grains of salt.
– BrianH
yesterday
1
The answers seem specific to USA. Is the question also country-specific?
– Tommi Brander
16 hours ago
2
Nobody wants an MBA anymore. What's the point? I don't believe an MBA makes you more likely to run a company or be a good manager. Besides, everyone is piling into data analytics programs.
– duffymo
9 hours ago
add a comment |
4
Kaplan did a survey on it - is this what you are looking for? Original: kaptest.com/blog/press/2019/01/30/… Reporting by Inside Higher Ed: insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/02/04/… It may not be the actual reasons for numbers changing, but its what they report B-schools cited as the reason. Take with many large grains of salt.
– BrianH
yesterday
1
The answers seem specific to USA. Is the question also country-specific?
– Tommi Brander
16 hours ago
2
Nobody wants an MBA anymore. What's the point? I don't believe an MBA makes you more likely to run a company or be a good manager. Besides, everyone is piling into data analytics programs.
– duffymo
9 hours ago
4
4
Kaplan did a survey on it - is this what you are looking for? Original: kaptest.com/blog/press/2019/01/30/… Reporting by Inside Higher Ed: insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/02/04/… It may not be the actual reasons for numbers changing, but its what they report B-schools cited as the reason. Take with many large grains of salt.
– BrianH
yesterday
Kaplan did a survey on it - is this what you are looking for? Original: kaptest.com/blog/press/2019/01/30/… Reporting by Inside Higher Ed: insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/02/04/… It may not be the actual reasons for numbers changing, but its what they report B-schools cited as the reason. Take with many large grains of salt.
– BrianH
yesterday
1
1
The answers seem specific to USA. Is the question also country-specific?
– Tommi Brander
16 hours ago
The answers seem specific to USA. Is the question also country-specific?
– Tommi Brander
16 hours ago
2
2
Nobody wants an MBA anymore. What's the point? I don't believe an MBA makes you more likely to run a company or be a good manager. Besides, everyone is piling into data analytics programs.
– duffymo
9 hours ago
Nobody wants an MBA anymore. What's the point? I don't believe an MBA makes you more likely to run a company or be a good manager. Besides, everyone is piling into data analytics programs.
– duffymo
9 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Demand is counter-cyclical. During recessions, demand rises as people seek additional training, hoping to prepare for new careers. But US unemployment is currently at only 3.6%. We haven't seen unemployment that low in decades, so people are not feeling the pressure to seek additional training for new careers.
Here are some references that describe this counter-cyclical behavior of applications to graduate school.
Ilana Kowarski, "Fewer People Are Applying to U.S. Business Schools", US News, Nov 5, 2018
From a U.S. domestic prospective, historically, U.S. business school
application volume has run countercyclical to the economy," Basye
wrote in an email. "In times of higher unemployment or job loss,
people often go back to school. In times of full employment or high
GDP growth – like right now – opportunity costs are higher to leave a
job and return to school.
Jade Scipioni, "Harvard, Stanford, other top MBA schools see applications drop", Fox Business, October 1, 2018
Sangeet Chowfla, president and CEO at GMAC, notes that historically
business school application volume have often run counter cyclical to
current economic trends and indicators. And the current low
unemployment rate means “young professionals have an increased
opportunity cost of leaving their jobs in pursuit of an advanced
degree,” Chowfla said.
Wendi Go, "Is Enrollment into Graduate School Affected by the Business Cycle?", Department of Economics, Stanford, May 11, 2009
The findings show that the effect of the business cycle on First-time
First-professional enrollment follows a relatively consistent
counter-cyclical pattern. More specifically, a 1% increase in
employment growth is associated with a 4.09% decrease in enrollment,
while a 1% increase in GDP growth corresponds to a 2.04% decrease in
First-time First-professional enrollment. Finally, 1% increases in
personal income growth and personal disposable income growth are
associated with 1.68% and 1.30% decreases in First-time
First-professional enrollment respectively.
Srikant Datar, David A. Garvin, Patrick G. Cullen, "Rethinking the MBA: Business Education at a Crossroads", Harvard Business Press, April 22, 2010
Because MBA programs are often viewed by young people, especially
those with few other career options, as a safe harbor for weathering
economic storms, business school applications have historically been
countercyclical.
... to the point where b-schools would shut down, though? That suggests more than just the result of low unemployment, no? I have in mind a permanent shift away from b-school education, but I'm not sure; it's not like the skill sets gotten from b-school are analogous to skills in ... coal mining? investment bankers, private equity analysts, marketing / product managers are still very much needed, and MBA programs train for those careers, right? I don't have an MBA so am not sure.
– user109593
yesterday
13
This is one of the things they teach in biz school. :) If you have high fixed costs and you're only running barely above them, it only takes a small change in volume to turn a small profit into a big loss. Some of the programs that are shutting down may have been vanity or halo projects, only minimally profitable, if at all. With only a small drop in enrollment, they could have become unaffordable.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Don't know about a specific reference, but (simplifying) profit = revenue - total costs where revenue = revenue per unit x number of units, total costs = fixed costs + variable costs and variable costs = cost per unit x number of units. Each unit results in what's called a contribution = revenue per unit - cost per unit. Do you see how the math works? If your volume drops, you may no longer cover your fixed costs. If you were only barely profitable, a small change in volume can mean big losses.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Good answer. Part of this is not just the recent drop in demand but also the artificial increase in demand (and supply) for these programs following the last recession. Anecdotally I know of people who got an MBA simply because there was a lack of jobs when they graduated that likely would not have done so otherwise. I also think the negative attitudes towards 'MBAs' (some of which are well-founded) has something to do with this as well. More people are choosing silicon valley over wall street careers and having an MBA flags you as 'overhead' in a tech startup.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
1
@user109593 An MBA is different from many graduate degrees in that it is oriented for breadth, not depth or in other words it's "a mile-wide and an inch-deep". That is, it's not meant to teach expertise in a specific field, but rather teach general knowledge across many topics relevant to running a business. The idea is that the CEO needs to understand enough about what her reports do to lead them and evaluate their performance. There's debate as to whether you should need to have post-undergraduate work experience before entering such a program. I tend to agree that you should.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I would know nothing about this issue except for the link that BrianH provided in a comment to an Inside Higher Ed article. I found it quite interesting; here are the top perceived reasons for the fall in admissions from a survey of admissions officials at 150 MBA programs:
- International students are "concerned about the current political climate" in the U.S.: 31 percent.
- The strong job market in the U.S.: 30 percent.
- The cost of an M.B.A.: 17 percent.
- Questions about the value of the M.B.A.: 13 percent.
- The lack of one-year M.B.A. programs in the United States: 7 percent.
- The perception that fewer jobs require an MBA than in years past: 3 percent.
Regarding the top reason in that list, the very last line of that article has what I think is an important qualifying detail:
A study by the Graduate Management Admission Council found declines in
application volume for M.B.A. programs but gains for those in Asia,
Canada and Europe.
Here's a link to the article on that specific topic, titled, "M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)".
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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Demand is counter-cyclical. During recessions, demand rises as people seek additional training, hoping to prepare for new careers. But US unemployment is currently at only 3.6%. We haven't seen unemployment that low in decades, so people are not feeling the pressure to seek additional training for new careers.
Here are some references that describe this counter-cyclical behavior of applications to graduate school.
Ilana Kowarski, "Fewer People Are Applying to U.S. Business Schools", US News, Nov 5, 2018
From a U.S. domestic prospective, historically, U.S. business school
application volume has run countercyclical to the economy," Basye
wrote in an email. "In times of higher unemployment or job loss,
people often go back to school. In times of full employment or high
GDP growth – like right now – opportunity costs are higher to leave a
job and return to school.
Jade Scipioni, "Harvard, Stanford, other top MBA schools see applications drop", Fox Business, October 1, 2018
Sangeet Chowfla, president and CEO at GMAC, notes that historically
business school application volume have often run counter cyclical to
current economic trends and indicators. And the current low
unemployment rate means “young professionals have an increased
opportunity cost of leaving their jobs in pursuit of an advanced
degree,” Chowfla said.
Wendi Go, "Is Enrollment into Graduate School Affected by the Business Cycle?", Department of Economics, Stanford, May 11, 2009
The findings show that the effect of the business cycle on First-time
First-professional enrollment follows a relatively consistent
counter-cyclical pattern. More specifically, a 1% increase in
employment growth is associated with a 4.09% decrease in enrollment,
while a 1% increase in GDP growth corresponds to a 2.04% decrease in
First-time First-professional enrollment. Finally, 1% increases in
personal income growth and personal disposable income growth are
associated with 1.68% and 1.30% decreases in First-time
First-professional enrollment respectively.
Srikant Datar, David A. Garvin, Patrick G. Cullen, "Rethinking the MBA: Business Education at a Crossroads", Harvard Business Press, April 22, 2010
Because MBA programs are often viewed by young people, especially
those with few other career options, as a safe harbor for weathering
economic storms, business school applications have historically been
countercyclical.
... to the point where b-schools would shut down, though? That suggests more than just the result of low unemployment, no? I have in mind a permanent shift away from b-school education, but I'm not sure; it's not like the skill sets gotten from b-school are analogous to skills in ... coal mining? investment bankers, private equity analysts, marketing / product managers are still very much needed, and MBA programs train for those careers, right? I don't have an MBA so am not sure.
– user109593
yesterday
13
This is one of the things they teach in biz school. :) If you have high fixed costs and you're only running barely above them, it only takes a small change in volume to turn a small profit into a big loss. Some of the programs that are shutting down may have been vanity or halo projects, only minimally profitable, if at all. With only a small drop in enrollment, they could have become unaffordable.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Don't know about a specific reference, but (simplifying) profit = revenue - total costs where revenue = revenue per unit x number of units, total costs = fixed costs + variable costs and variable costs = cost per unit x number of units. Each unit results in what's called a contribution = revenue per unit - cost per unit. Do you see how the math works? If your volume drops, you may no longer cover your fixed costs. If you were only barely profitable, a small change in volume can mean big losses.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Good answer. Part of this is not just the recent drop in demand but also the artificial increase in demand (and supply) for these programs following the last recession. Anecdotally I know of people who got an MBA simply because there was a lack of jobs when they graduated that likely would not have done so otherwise. I also think the negative attitudes towards 'MBAs' (some of which are well-founded) has something to do with this as well. More people are choosing silicon valley over wall street careers and having an MBA flags you as 'overhead' in a tech startup.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
1
@user109593 An MBA is different from many graduate degrees in that it is oriented for breadth, not depth or in other words it's "a mile-wide and an inch-deep". That is, it's not meant to teach expertise in a specific field, but rather teach general knowledge across many topics relevant to running a business. The idea is that the CEO needs to understand enough about what her reports do to lead them and evaluate their performance. There's debate as to whether you should need to have post-undergraduate work experience before entering such a program. I tend to agree that you should.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Demand is counter-cyclical. During recessions, demand rises as people seek additional training, hoping to prepare for new careers. But US unemployment is currently at only 3.6%. We haven't seen unemployment that low in decades, so people are not feeling the pressure to seek additional training for new careers.
Here are some references that describe this counter-cyclical behavior of applications to graduate school.
Ilana Kowarski, "Fewer People Are Applying to U.S. Business Schools", US News, Nov 5, 2018
From a U.S. domestic prospective, historically, U.S. business school
application volume has run countercyclical to the economy," Basye
wrote in an email. "In times of higher unemployment or job loss,
people often go back to school. In times of full employment or high
GDP growth – like right now – opportunity costs are higher to leave a
job and return to school.
Jade Scipioni, "Harvard, Stanford, other top MBA schools see applications drop", Fox Business, October 1, 2018
Sangeet Chowfla, president and CEO at GMAC, notes that historically
business school application volume have often run counter cyclical to
current economic trends and indicators. And the current low
unemployment rate means “young professionals have an increased
opportunity cost of leaving their jobs in pursuit of an advanced
degree,” Chowfla said.
Wendi Go, "Is Enrollment into Graduate School Affected by the Business Cycle?", Department of Economics, Stanford, May 11, 2009
The findings show that the effect of the business cycle on First-time
First-professional enrollment follows a relatively consistent
counter-cyclical pattern. More specifically, a 1% increase in
employment growth is associated with a 4.09% decrease in enrollment,
while a 1% increase in GDP growth corresponds to a 2.04% decrease in
First-time First-professional enrollment. Finally, 1% increases in
personal income growth and personal disposable income growth are
associated with 1.68% and 1.30% decreases in First-time
First-professional enrollment respectively.
Srikant Datar, David A. Garvin, Patrick G. Cullen, "Rethinking the MBA: Business Education at a Crossroads", Harvard Business Press, April 22, 2010
Because MBA programs are often viewed by young people, especially
those with few other career options, as a safe harbor for weathering
economic storms, business school applications have historically been
countercyclical.
... to the point where b-schools would shut down, though? That suggests more than just the result of low unemployment, no? I have in mind a permanent shift away from b-school education, but I'm not sure; it's not like the skill sets gotten from b-school are analogous to skills in ... coal mining? investment bankers, private equity analysts, marketing / product managers are still very much needed, and MBA programs train for those careers, right? I don't have an MBA so am not sure.
– user109593
yesterday
13
This is one of the things they teach in biz school. :) If you have high fixed costs and you're only running barely above them, it only takes a small change in volume to turn a small profit into a big loss. Some of the programs that are shutting down may have been vanity or halo projects, only minimally profitable, if at all. With only a small drop in enrollment, they could have become unaffordable.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Don't know about a specific reference, but (simplifying) profit = revenue - total costs where revenue = revenue per unit x number of units, total costs = fixed costs + variable costs and variable costs = cost per unit x number of units. Each unit results in what's called a contribution = revenue per unit - cost per unit. Do you see how the math works? If your volume drops, you may no longer cover your fixed costs. If you were only barely profitable, a small change in volume can mean big losses.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Good answer. Part of this is not just the recent drop in demand but also the artificial increase in demand (and supply) for these programs following the last recession. Anecdotally I know of people who got an MBA simply because there was a lack of jobs when they graduated that likely would not have done so otherwise. I also think the negative attitudes towards 'MBAs' (some of which are well-founded) has something to do with this as well. More people are choosing silicon valley over wall street careers and having an MBA flags you as 'overhead' in a tech startup.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
1
@user109593 An MBA is different from many graduate degrees in that it is oriented for breadth, not depth or in other words it's "a mile-wide and an inch-deep". That is, it's not meant to teach expertise in a specific field, but rather teach general knowledge across many topics relevant to running a business. The idea is that the CEO needs to understand enough about what her reports do to lead them and evaluate their performance. There's debate as to whether you should need to have post-undergraduate work experience before entering such a program. I tend to agree that you should.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Demand is counter-cyclical. During recessions, demand rises as people seek additional training, hoping to prepare for new careers. But US unemployment is currently at only 3.6%. We haven't seen unemployment that low in decades, so people are not feeling the pressure to seek additional training for new careers.
Here are some references that describe this counter-cyclical behavior of applications to graduate school.
Ilana Kowarski, "Fewer People Are Applying to U.S. Business Schools", US News, Nov 5, 2018
From a U.S. domestic prospective, historically, U.S. business school
application volume has run countercyclical to the economy," Basye
wrote in an email. "In times of higher unemployment or job loss,
people often go back to school. In times of full employment or high
GDP growth – like right now – opportunity costs are higher to leave a
job and return to school.
Jade Scipioni, "Harvard, Stanford, other top MBA schools see applications drop", Fox Business, October 1, 2018
Sangeet Chowfla, president and CEO at GMAC, notes that historically
business school application volume have often run counter cyclical to
current economic trends and indicators. And the current low
unemployment rate means “young professionals have an increased
opportunity cost of leaving their jobs in pursuit of an advanced
degree,” Chowfla said.
Wendi Go, "Is Enrollment into Graduate School Affected by the Business Cycle?", Department of Economics, Stanford, May 11, 2009
The findings show that the effect of the business cycle on First-time
First-professional enrollment follows a relatively consistent
counter-cyclical pattern. More specifically, a 1% increase in
employment growth is associated with a 4.09% decrease in enrollment,
while a 1% increase in GDP growth corresponds to a 2.04% decrease in
First-time First-professional enrollment. Finally, 1% increases in
personal income growth and personal disposable income growth are
associated with 1.68% and 1.30% decreases in First-time
First-professional enrollment respectively.
Srikant Datar, David A. Garvin, Patrick G. Cullen, "Rethinking the MBA: Business Education at a Crossroads", Harvard Business Press, April 22, 2010
Because MBA programs are often viewed by young people, especially
those with few other career options, as a safe harbor for weathering
economic storms, business school applications have historically been
countercyclical.
Demand is counter-cyclical. During recessions, demand rises as people seek additional training, hoping to prepare for new careers. But US unemployment is currently at only 3.6%. We haven't seen unemployment that low in decades, so people are not feeling the pressure to seek additional training for new careers.
Here are some references that describe this counter-cyclical behavior of applications to graduate school.
Ilana Kowarski, "Fewer People Are Applying to U.S. Business Schools", US News, Nov 5, 2018
From a U.S. domestic prospective, historically, U.S. business school
application volume has run countercyclical to the economy," Basye
wrote in an email. "In times of higher unemployment or job loss,
people often go back to school. In times of full employment or high
GDP growth – like right now – opportunity costs are higher to leave a
job and return to school.
Jade Scipioni, "Harvard, Stanford, other top MBA schools see applications drop", Fox Business, October 1, 2018
Sangeet Chowfla, president and CEO at GMAC, notes that historically
business school application volume have often run counter cyclical to
current economic trends and indicators. And the current low
unemployment rate means “young professionals have an increased
opportunity cost of leaving their jobs in pursuit of an advanced
degree,” Chowfla said.
Wendi Go, "Is Enrollment into Graduate School Affected by the Business Cycle?", Department of Economics, Stanford, May 11, 2009
The findings show that the effect of the business cycle on First-time
First-professional enrollment follows a relatively consistent
counter-cyclical pattern. More specifically, a 1% increase in
employment growth is associated with a 4.09% decrease in enrollment,
while a 1% increase in GDP growth corresponds to a 2.04% decrease in
First-time First-professional enrollment. Finally, 1% increases in
personal income growth and personal disposable income growth are
associated with 1.68% and 1.30% decreases in First-time
First-professional enrollment respectively.
Srikant Datar, David A. Garvin, Patrick G. Cullen, "Rethinking the MBA: Business Education at a Crossroads", Harvard Business Press, April 22, 2010
Because MBA programs are often viewed by young people, especially
those with few other career options, as a safe harbor for weathering
economic storms, business school applications have historically been
countercyclical.
edited 16 hours ago
terdon
1,3071015
1,3071015
answered yesterday
Nicole HamiltonNicole Hamilton
17.3k74465
17.3k74465
... to the point where b-schools would shut down, though? That suggests more than just the result of low unemployment, no? I have in mind a permanent shift away from b-school education, but I'm not sure; it's not like the skill sets gotten from b-school are analogous to skills in ... coal mining? investment bankers, private equity analysts, marketing / product managers are still very much needed, and MBA programs train for those careers, right? I don't have an MBA so am not sure.
– user109593
yesterday
13
This is one of the things they teach in biz school. :) If you have high fixed costs and you're only running barely above them, it only takes a small change in volume to turn a small profit into a big loss. Some of the programs that are shutting down may have been vanity or halo projects, only minimally profitable, if at all. With only a small drop in enrollment, they could have become unaffordable.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Don't know about a specific reference, but (simplifying) profit = revenue - total costs where revenue = revenue per unit x number of units, total costs = fixed costs + variable costs and variable costs = cost per unit x number of units. Each unit results in what's called a contribution = revenue per unit - cost per unit. Do you see how the math works? If your volume drops, you may no longer cover your fixed costs. If you were only barely profitable, a small change in volume can mean big losses.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Good answer. Part of this is not just the recent drop in demand but also the artificial increase in demand (and supply) for these programs following the last recession. Anecdotally I know of people who got an MBA simply because there was a lack of jobs when they graduated that likely would not have done so otherwise. I also think the negative attitudes towards 'MBAs' (some of which are well-founded) has something to do with this as well. More people are choosing silicon valley over wall street careers and having an MBA flags you as 'overhead' in a tech startup.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
1
@user109593 An MBA is different from many graduate degrees in that it is oriented for breadth, not depth or in other words it's "a mile-wide and an inch-deep". That is, it's not meant to teach expertise in a specific field, but rather teach general knowledge across many topics relevant to running a business. The idea is that the CEO needs to understand enough about what her reports do to lead them and evaluate their performance. There's debate as to whether you should need to have post-undergraduate work experience before entering such a program. I tend to agree that you should.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
... to the point where b-schools would shut down, though? That suggests more than just the result of low unemployment, no? I have in mind a permanent shift away from b-school education, but I'm not sure; it's not like the skill sets gotten from b-school are analogous to skills in ... coal mining? investment bankers, private equity analysts, marketing / product managers are still very much needed, and MBA programs train for those careers, right? I don't have an MBA so am not sure.
– user109593
yesterday
13
This is one of the things they teach in biz school. :) If you have high fixed costs and you're only running barely above them, it only takes a small change in volume to turn a small profit into a big loss. Some of the programs that are shutting down may have been vanity or halo projects, only minimally profitable, if at all. With only a small drop in enrollment, they could have become unaffordable.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Don't know about a specific reference, but (simplifying) profit = revenue - total costs where revenue = revenue per unit x number of units, total costs = fixed costs + variable costs and variable costs = cost per unit x number of units. Each unit results in what's called a contribution = revenue per unit - cost per unit. Do you see how the math works? If your volume drops, you may no longer cover your fixed costs. If you were only barely profitable, a small change in volume can mean big losses.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
Good answer. Part of this is not just the recent drop in demand but also the artificial increase in demand (and supply) for these programs following the last recession. Anecdotally I know of people who got an MBA simply because there was a lack of jobs when they graduated that likely would not have done so otherwise. I also think the negative attitudes towards 'MBAs' (some of which are well-founded) has something to do with this as well. More people are choosing silicon valley over wall street careers and having an MBA flags you as 'overhead' in a tech startup.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
1
@user109593 An MBA is different from many graduate degrees in that it is oriented for breadth, not depth or in other words it's "a mile-wide and an inch-deep". That is, it's not meant to teach expertise in a specific field, but rather teach general knowledge across many topics relevant to running a business. The idea is that the CEO needs to understand enough about what her reports do to lead them and evaluate their performance. There's debate as to whether you should need to have post-undergraduate work experience before entering such a program. I tend to agree that you should.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
... to the point where b-schools would shut down, though? That suggests more than just the result of low unemployment, no? I have in mind a permanent shift away from b-school education, but I'm not sure; it's not like the skill sets gotten from b-school are analogous to skills in ... coal mining? investment bankers, private equity analysts, marketing / product managers are still very much needed, and MBA programs train for those careers, right? I don't have an MBA so am not sure.
– user109593
yesterday
... to the point where b-schools would shut down, though? That suggests more than just the result of low unemployment, no? I have in mind a permanent shift away from b-school education, but I'm not sure; it's not like the skill sets gotten from b-school are analogous to skills in ... coal mining? investment bankers, private equity analysts, marketing / product managers are still very much needed, and MBA programs train for those careers, right? I don't have an MBA so am not sure.
– user109593
yesterday
13
13
This is one of the things they teach in biz school. :) If you have high fixed costs and you're only running barely above them, it only takes a small change in volume to turn a small profit into a big loss. Some of the programs that are shutting down may have been vanity or halo projects, only minimally profitable, if at all. With only a small drop in enrollment, they could have become unaffordable.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
This is one of the things they teach in biz school. :) If you have high fixed costs and you're only running barely above them, it only takes a small change in volume to turn a small profit into a big loss. Some of the programs that are shutting down may have been vanity or halo projects, only minimally profitable, if at all. With only a small drop in enrollment, they could have become unaffordable.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
2
Don't know about a specific reference, but (simplifying) profit = revenue - total costs where revenue = revenue per unit x number of units, total costs = fixed costs + variable costs and variable costs = cost per unit x number of units. Each unit results in what's called a contribution = revenue per unit - cost per unit. Do you see how the math works? If your volume drops, you may no longer cover your fixed costs. If you were only barely profitable, a small change in volume can mean big losses.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
Don't know about a specific reference, but (simplifying) profit = revenue - total costs where revenue = revenue per unit x number of units, total costs = fixed costs + variable costs and variable costs = cost per unit x number of units. Each unit results in what's called a contribution = revenue per unit - cost per unit. Do you see how the math works? If your volume drops, you may no longer cover your fixed costs. If you were only barely profitable, a small change in volume can mean big losses.
– Nicole Hamilton
yesterday
2
2
Good answer. Part of this is not just the recent drop in demand but also the artificial increase in demand (and supply) for these programs following the last recession. Anecdotally I know of people who got an MBA simply because there was a lack of jobs when they graduated that likely would not have done so otherwise. I also think the negative attitudes towards 'MBAs' (some of which are well-founded) has something to do with this as well. More people are choosing silicon valley over wall street careers and having an MBA flags you as 'overhead' in a tech startup.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
Good answer. Part of this is not just the recent drop in demand but also the artificial increase in demand (and supply) for these programs following the last recession. Anecdotally I know of people who got an MBA simply because there was a lack of jobs when they graduated that likely would not have done so otherwise. I also think the negative attitudes towards 'MBAs' (some of which are well-founded) has something to do with this as well. More people are choosing silicon valley over wall street careers and having an MBA flags you as 'overhead' in a tech startup.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
1
1
@user109593 An MBA is different from many graduate degrees in that it is oriented for breadth, not depth or in other words it's "a mile-wide and an inch-deep". That is, it's not meant to teach expertise in a specific field, but rather teach general knowledge across many topics relevant to running a business. The idea is that the CEO needs to understand enough about what her reports do to lead them and evaluate their performance. There's debate as to whether you should need to have post-undergraduate work experience before entering such a program. I tend to agree that you should.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
@user109593 An MBA is different from many graduate degrees in that it is oriented for breadth, not depth or in other words it's "a mile-wide and an inch-deep". That is, it's not meant to teach expertise in a specific field, but rather teach general knowledge across many topics relevant to running a business. The idea is that the CEO needs to understand enough about what her reports do to lead them and evaluate their performance. There's debate as to whether you should need to have post-undergraduate work experience before entering such a program. I tend to agree that you should.
– JimmyJames
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I would know nothing about this issue except for the link that BrianH provided in a comment to an Inside Higher Ed article. I found it quite interesting; here are the top perceived reasons for the fall in admissions from a survey of admissions officials at 150 MBA programs:
- International students are "concerned about the current political climate" in the U.S.: 31 percent.
- The strong job market in the U.S.: 30 percent.
- The cost of an M.B.A.: 17 percent.
- Questions about the value of the M.B.A.: 13 percent.
- The lack of one-year M.B.A. programs in the United States: 7 percent.
- The perception that fewer jobs require an MBA than in years past: 3 percent.
Regarding the top reason in that list, the very last line of that article has what I think is an important qualifying detail:
A study by the Graduate Management Admission Council found declines in
application volume for M.B.A. programs but gains for those in Asia,
Canada and Europe.
Here's a link to the article on that specific topic, titled, "M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)".
add a comment |
I would know nothing about this issue except for the link that BrianH provided in a comment to an Inside Higher Ed article. I found it quite interesting; here are the top perceived reasons for the fall in admissions from a survey of admissions officials at 150 MBA programs:
- International students are "concerned about the current political climate" in the U.S.: 31 percent.
- The strong job market in the U.S.: 30 percent.
- The cost of an M.B.A.: 17 percent.
- Questions about the value of the M.B.A.: 13 percent.
- The lack of one-year M.B.A. programs in the United States: 7 percent.
- The perception that fewer jobs require an MBA than in years past: 3 percent.
Regarding the top reason in that list, the very last line of that article has what I think is an important qualifying detail:
A study by the Graduate Management Admission Council found declines in
application volume for M.B.A. programs but gains for those in Asia,
Canada and Europe.
Here's a link to the article on that specific topic, titled, "M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)".
add a comment |
I would know nothing about this issue except for the link that BrianH provided in a comment to an Inside Higher Ed article. I found it quite interesting; here are the top perceived reasons for the fall in admissions from a survey of admissions officials at 150 MBA programs:
- International students are "concerned about the current political climate" in the U.S.: 31 percent.
- The strong job market in the U.S.: 30 percent.
- The cost of an M.B.A.: 17 percent.
- Questions about the value of the M.B.A.: 13 percent.
- The lack of one-year M.B.A. programs in the United States: 7 percent.
- The perception that fewer jobs require an MBA than in years past: 3 percent.
Regarding the top reason in that list, the very last line of that article has what I think is an important qualifying detail:
A study by the Graduate Management Admission Council found declines in
application volume for M.B.A. programs but gains for those in Asia,
Canada and Europe.
Here's a link to the article on that specific topic, titled, "M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)".
I would know nothing about this issue except for the link that BrianH provided in a comment to an Inside Higher Ed article. I found it quite interesting; here are the top perceived reasons for the fall in admissions from a survey of admissions officials at 150 MBA programs:
- International students are "concerned about the current political climate" in the U.S.: 31 percent.
- The strong job market in the U.S.: 30 percent.
- The cost of an M.B.A.: 17 percent.
- Questions about the value of the M.B.A.: 13 percent.
- The lack of one-year M.B.A. programs in the United States: 7 percent.
- The perception that fewer jobs require an MBA than in years past: 3 percent.
Regarding the top reason in that list, the very last line of that article has what I think is an important qualifying detail:
A study by the Graduate Management Admission Council found declines in
application volume for M.B.A. programs but gains for those in Asia,
Canada and Europe.
Here's a link to the article on that specific topic, titled, "M.B.A. Applications Drop (Except Outside the U.S.)".
answered yesterday
Daniel R. CollinsDaniel R. Collins
18.5k64977
18.5k64977
add a comment |
add a comment |
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4
Kaplan did a survey on it - is this what you are looking for? Original: kaptest.com/blog/press/2019/01/30/… Reporting by Inside Higher Ed: insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/02/04/… It may not be the actual reasons for numbers changing, but its what they report B-schools cited as the reason. Take with many large grains of salt.
– BrianH
yesterday
1
The answers seem specific to USA. Is the question also country-specific?
– Tommi Brander
16 hours ago
2
Nobody wants an MBA anymore. What's the point? I don't believe an MBA makes you more likely to run a company or be a good manager. Besides, everyone is piling into data analytics programs.
– duffymo
9 hours ago