Is it a bad idea to replace pull-up resistors with hard pull-ups?
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Is it a bad idea to replace pull-up resistors with hard pull-ups?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
On many of my designs, there are ICs which have mode selection or similar inputs that are permanently pulled up or down using resistors.
If I replaced all these with simple hard pullups or pulldowns I would probably save 10 placements per board on average, which is not nothing. Is this a bad idea? And if so why?
pcd-design
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
On many of my designs, there are ICs which have mode selection or similar inputs that are permanently pulled up or down using resistors.
If I replaced all these with simple hard pullups or pulldowns I would probably save 10 placements per board on average, which is not nothing. Is this a bad idea? And if so why?
pcd-design
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Include a schematic of what you mean, what's a "hard pullup" do you mean a direct connection (no series resistor) to the supply? Include a link to an example of an IC for which you want to do this. Someone put the resistors in the schematic, ask that person why they did that.
$endgroup$
– Bimpelrekkie
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
On rev 0 of any board I tend to strap any configuration or spare input pins high or low using resistors (sometimes zero-ohm), because it may provide a quick fix in an "oh @#$%" moment. With zero-ohms you can remove the resistor, or remove the resistor and use the pad for a wire, etc. Once I'm sure of the design, if production volumes are high enough that it matters I'll make a pass through and just strap things high or low with copper.
$endgroup$
– TimWescott
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
On many of my designs, there are ICs which have mode selection or similar inputs that are permanently pulled up or down using resistors.
If I replaced all these with simple hard pullups or pulldowns I would probably save 10 placements per board on average, which is not nothing. Is this a bad idea? And if so why?
pcd-design
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
$endgroup$
On many of my designs, there are ICs which have mode selection or similar inputs that are permanently pulled up or down using resistors.
If I replaced all these with simple hard pullups or pulldowns I would probably save 10 placements per board on average, which is not nothing. Is this a bad idea? And if so why?
pcd-design
pcd-design
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
asked 2 hours ago
DrewDrew
2,0631515
2,0631515
2
$begingroup$
Include a schematic of what you mean, what's a "hard pullup" do you mean a direct connection (no series resistor) to the supply? Include a link to an example of an IC for which you want to do this. Someone put the resistors in the schematic, ask that person why they did that.
$endgroup$
– Bimpelrekkie
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
On rev 0 of any board I tend to strap any configuration or spare input pins high or low using resistors (sometimes zero-ohm), because it may provide a quick fix in an "oh @#$%" moment. With zero-ohms you can remove the resistor, or remove the resistor and use the pad for a wire, etc. Once I'm sure of the design, if production volumes are high enough that it matters I'll make a pass through and just strap things high or low with copper.
$endgroup$
– TimWescott
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Include a schematic of what you mean, what's a "hard pullup" do you mean a direct connection (no series resistor) to the supply? Include a link to an example of an IC for which you want to do this. Someone put the resistors in the schematic, ask that person why they did that.
$endgroup$
– Bimpelrekkie
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
On rev 0 of any board I tend to strap any configuration or spare input pins high or low using resistors (sometimes zero-ohm), because it may provide a quick fix in an "oh @#$%" moment. With zero-ohms you can remove the resistor, or remove the resistor and use the pad for a wire, etc. Once I'm sure of the design, if production volumes are high enough that it matters I'll make a pass through and just strap things high or low with copper.
$endgroup$
– TimWescott
1 hour ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Include a schematic of what you mean, what's a "hard pullup" do you mean a direct connection (no series resistor) to the supply? Include a link to an example of an IC for which you want to do this. Someone put the resistors in the schematic, ask that person why they did that.
$endgroup$
– Bimpelrekkie
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Include a schematic of what you mean, what's a "hard pullup" do you mean a direct connection (no series resistor) to the supply? Include a link to an example of an IC for which you want to do this. Someone put the resistors in the schematic, ask that person why they did that.
$endgroup$
– Bimpelrekkie
2 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
On rev 0 of any board I tend to strap any configuration or spare input pins high or low using resistors (sometimes zero-ohm), because it may provide a quick fix in an "oh @#$%" moment. With zero-ohms you can remove the resistor, or remove the resistor and use the pad for a wire, etc. Once I'm sure of the design, if production volumes are high enough that it matters I'll make a pass through and just strap things high or low with copper.
$endgroup$
– TimWescott
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
On rev 0 of any board I tend to strap any configuration or spare input pins high or low using resistors (sometimes zero-ohm), because it may provide a quick fix in an "oh @#$%" moment. With zero-ohms you can remove the resistor, or remove the resistor and use the pad for a wire, etc. Once I'm sure of the design, if production volumes are high enough that it matters I'll make a pass through and just strap things high or low with copper.
$endgroup$
– TimWescott
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I asked a similar question on the eevblog forum some time ago. I had this idea in my head that any signal I needed permanently low I would tie hard to ground, and any signal that I needed permanently high I would tie up via a resistor.
I didnt really know from where or why I used this scheme, so I asked about it. I think it may have been something that I picked up somewhere that was more applicable in the TTL days.
EEVBlog - Pull-up resistors - technically necessary vs preference?
The general consensus seemed to be, and as Huisman suggests, unless you need to be able to pull the signal in the opposite direction, you can simply pull it hard up/down.
edit: worth noting that my question was in relation to CMOS based devices - it may still be applicable/necessary if you are playing with TTL families.
More technical reasons revolved around noise immunity, especially if your pull up resistor values were of a high value.
As I am writing this, other reasons I can think of for wanting to use pull ups/downs might include troubleshooting abilities, "hidden features", or debug/service mode selection for example.
Since that thread I am no longer using pull ups unless I need them functionally.
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Yes, it was a requirement for TTL Hi to prevent secondary breakdown current on overvoltage transients to supply. But not for CMOS. Although my TE's would add them for testability since it serves no function, I said fault detect is adequate with inputs used.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The idea of pull-up / pull-down a signal is that the signal is being pulled high or pulled down low most of the time, but can sometimes be pulled down or pulled high respectively.
In the case you want to pull down a signal incidentally that is pulled up most of the time, you want to use a pull-up resistor to prevent huge current drawn from the supply.
So, if your circuit really uses pull-up or pull-down resistors as described above, don't remove them. (For example, when a pin is open collector.)
If in your circuit a signal needs to high or low forever (when the supply is present) and no other component can change the state of this signal, then you can hard-wire it. Those signal are not called pulled-up, but high, and, respectively not called pulled-down, but low.
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The answer will be in the datasheet. If the logic input operating voltage specification includes VCC or V+ then connecting directly to positive supply is OK.
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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votes
$begingroup$
I asked a similar question on the eevblog forum some time ago. I had this idea in my head that any signal I needed permanently low I would tie hard to ground, and any signal that I needed permanently high I would tie up via a resistor.
I didnt really know from where or why I used this scheme, so I asked about it. I think it may have been something that I picked up somewhere that was more applicable in the TTL days.
EEVBlog - Pull-up resistors - technically necessary vs preference?
The general consensus seemed to be, and as Huisman suggests, unless you need to be able to pull the signal in the opposite direction, you can simply pull it hard up/down.
edit: worth noting that my question was in relation to CMOS based devices - it may still be applicable/necessary if you are playing with TTL families.
More technical reasons revolved around noise immunity, especially if your pull up resistor values were of a high value.
As I am writing this, other reasons I can think of for wanting to use pull ups/downs might include troubleshooting abilities, "hidden features", or debug/service mode selection for example.
Since that thread I am no longer using pull ups unless I need them functionally.
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Yes, it was a requirement for TTL Hi to prevent secondary breakdown current on overvoltage transients to supply. But not for CMOS. Although my TE's would add them for testability since it serves no function, I said fault detect is adequate with inputs used.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I asked a similar question on the eevblog forum some time ago. I had this idea in my head that any signal I needed permanently low I would tie hard to ground, and any signal that I needed permanently high I would tie up via a resistor.
I didnt really know from where or why I used this scheme, so I asked about it. I think it may have been something that I picked up somewhere that was more applicable in the TTL days.
EEVBlog - Pull-up resistors - technically necessary vs preference?
The general consensus seemed to be, and as Huisman suggests, unless you need to be able to pull the signal in the opposite direction, you can simply pull it hard up/down.
edit: worth noting that my question was in relation to CMOS based devices - it may still be applicable/necessary if you are playing with TTL families.
More technical reasons revolved around noise immunity, especially if your pull up resistor values were of a high value.
As I am writing this, other reasons I can think of for wanting to use pull ups/downs might include troubleshooting abilities, "hidden features", or debug/service mode selection for example.
Since that thread I am no longer using pull ups unless I need them functionally.
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Yes, it was a requirement for TTL Hi to prevent secondary breakdown current on overvoltage transients to supply. But not for CMOS. Although my TE's would add them for testability since it serves no function, I said fault detect is adequate with inputs used.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I asked a similar question on the eevblog forum some time ago. I had this idea in my head that any signal I needed permanently low I would tie hard to ground, and any signal that I needed permanently high I would tie up via a resistor.
I didnt really know from where or why I used this scheme, so I asked about it. I think it may have been something that I picked up somewhere that was more applicable in the TTL days.
EEVBlog - Pull-up resistors - technically necessary vs preference?
The general consensus seemed to be, and as Huisman suggests, unless you need to be able to pull the signal in the opposite direction, you can simply pull it hard up/down.
edit: worth noting that my question was in relation to CMOS based devices - it may still be applicable/necessary if you are playing with TTL families.
More technical reasons revolved around noise immunity, especially if your pull up resistor values were of a high value.
As I am writing this, other reasons I can think of for wanting to use pull ups/downs might include troubleshooting abilities, "hidden features", or debug/service mode selection for example.
Since that thread I am no longer using pull ups unless I need them functionally.
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
I asked a similar question on the eevblog forum some time ago. I had this idea in my head that any signal I needed permanently low I would tie hard to ground, and any signal that I needed permanently high I would tie up via a resistor.
I didnt really know from where or why I used this scheme, so I asked about it. I think it may have been something that I picked up somewhere that was more applicable in the TTL days.
EEVBlog - Pull-up resistors - technically necessary vs preference?
The general consensus seemed to be, and as Huisman suggests, unless you need to be able to pull the signal in the opposite direction, you can simply pull it hard up/down.
edit: worth noting that my question was in relation to CMOS based devices - it may still be applicable/necessary if you are playing with TTL families.
More technical reasons revolved around noise immunity, especially if your pull up resistor values were of a high value.
As I am writing this, other reasons I can think of for wanting to use pull ups/downs might include troubleshooting abilities, "hidden features", or debug/service mode selection for example.
Since that thread I am no longer using pull ups unless I need them functionally.
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
edited 1 hour ago
Greenonline
1,07521024
1,07521024
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
answered 1 hour ago
Tom STom S
612
612
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Tom S is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
$begingroup$
Yes, it was a requirement for TTL Hi to prevent secondary breakdown current on overvoltage transients to supply. But not for CMOS. Although my TE's would add them for testability since it serves no function, I said fault detect is adequate with inputs used.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Yes, it was a requirement for TTL Hi to prevent secondary breakdown current on overvoltage transients to supply. But not for CMOS. Although my TE's would add them for testability since it serves no function, I said fault detect is adequate with inputs used.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Yes, it was a requirement for TTL Hi to prevent secondary breakdown current on overvoltage transients to supply. But not for CMOS. Although my TE's would add them for testability since it serves no function, I said fault detect is adequate with inputs used.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Yes, it was a requirement for TTL Hi to prevent secondary breakdown current on overvoltage transients to supply. But not for CMOS. Although my TE's would add them for testability since it serves no function, I said fault detect is adequate with inputs used.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The idea of pull-up / pull-down a signal is that the signal is being pulled high or pulled down low most of the time, but can sometimes be pulled down or pulled high respectively.
In the case you want to pull down a signal incidentally that is pulled up most of the time, you want to use a pull-up resistor to prevent huge current drawn from the supply.
So, if your circuit really uses pull-up or pull-down resistors as described above, don't remove them. (For example, when a pin is open collector.)
If in your circuit a signal needs to high or low forever (when the supply is present) and no other component can change the state of this signal, then you can hard-wire it. Those signal are not called pulled-up, but high, and, respectively not called pulled-down, but low.
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The idea of pull-up / pull-down a signal is that the signal is being pulled high or pulled down low most of the time, but can sometimes be pulled down or pulled high respectively.
In the case you want to pull down a signal incidentally that is pulled up most of the time, you want to use a pull-up resistor to prevent huge current drawn from the supply.
So, if your circuit really uses pull-up or pull-down resistors as described above, don't remove them. (For example, when a pin is open collector.)
If in your circuit a signal needs to high or low forever (when the supply is present) and no other component can change the state of this signal, then you can hard-wire it. Those signal are not called pulled-up, but high, and, respectively not called pulled-down, but low.
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The idea of pull-up / pull-down a signal is that the signal is being pulled high or pulled down low most of the time, but can sometimes be pulled down or pulled high respectively.
In the case you want to pull down a signal incidentally that is pulled up most of the time, you want to use a pull-up resistor to prevent huge current drawn from the supply.
So, if your circuit really uses pull-up or pull-down resistors as described above, don't remove them. (For example, when a pin is open collector.)
If in your circuit a signal needs to high or low forever (when the supply is present) and no other component can change the state of this signal, then you can hard-wire it. Those signal are not called pulled-up, but high, and, respectively not called pulled-down, but low.
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
$endgroup$
The idea of pull-up / pull-down a signal is that the signal is being pulled high or pulled down low most of the time, but can sometimes be pulled down or pulled high respectively.
In the case you want to pull down a signal incidentally that is pulled up most of the time, you want to use a pull-up resistor to prevent huge current drawn from the supply.
So, if your circuit really uses pull-up or pull-down resistors as described above, don't remove them. (For example, when a pin is open collector.)
If in your circuit a signal needs to high or low forever (when the supply is present) and no other component can change the state of this signal, then you can hard-wire it. Those signal are not called pulled-up, but high, and, respectively not called pulled-down, but low.
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
answered 1 hour ago
HuismanHuisman
2,083315
2,083315
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The answer will be in the datasheet. If the logic input operating voltage specification includes VCC or V+ then connecting directly to positive supply is OK.
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The answer will be in the datasheet. If the logic input operating voltage specification includes VCC or V+ then connecting directly to positive supply is OK.
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The answer will be in the datasheet. If the logic input operating voltage specification includes VCC or V+ then connecting directly to positive supply is OK.
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
$endgroup$
The answer will be in the datasheet. If the logic input operating voltage specification includes VCC or V+ then connecting directly to positive supply is OK.
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
answered 1 hour ago
TransistorTransistor
91.1k788195
91.1k788195
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Include a schematic of what you mean, what's a "hard pullup" do you mean a direct connection (no series resistor) to the supply? Include a link to an example of an IC for which you want to do this. Someone put the resistors in the schematic, ask that person why they did that.
$endgroup$
– Bimpelrekkie
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
On rev 0 of any board I tend to strap any configuration or spare input pins high or low using resistors (sometimes zero-ohm), because it may provide a quick fix in an "oh @#$%" moment. With zero-ohms you can remove the resistor, or remove the resistor and use the pad for a wire, etc. Once I'm sure of the design, if production volumes are high enough that it matters I'll make a pass through and just strap things high or low with copper.
$endgroup$
– TimWescott
1 hour ago