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Four-in-a-line Puzzle


N-dimensional Tic-Tac-Toe variantPoints following an axiomIs there a better solution to parallel segments problem?Strategy game on a blackboardLine of destructionThe square and the compass II - MidpointsCops - The ultimate compass challengePoint mass soldiers in Fogland8 Train StationsFinding a line on a plane













2












$begingroup$


Disclaimer: This is an open-problem, I don't have a complete solution for this puzzle yet.





We are playing a $2$-player game: you as a challenger and me as a judge. Initially, there is an empty infinite $2$-dimensional plane.



Alternately starting from you, put a single point. Your points will be denoted as $O$-points and mine will be $X$-points. The point we put can be anywhere — it may have Real coordinate — as long as it is not overlapping with any previous points.



You will win if and only if at some point of time, you can draw a line segment passing $N$ number of $O$-points without passing any $X$-points. Thus, you will lose if and only if I can make sure you can't reach your goal at any point of time.




Questions:



  1. If $N = 4$, can you win this game?

  2. If $N = 5$, can you win this game?

  3. Can you win this game for any $N$? If yes, then what is the strategy? If no, then what is the smallest number of $N$ which is impossible for you to win?

This is an example of the game for $N = 3$:



enter image description here










share|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    2












    $begingroup$


    Disclaimer: This is an open-problem, I don't have a complete solution for this puzzle yet.





    We are playing a $2$-player game: you as a challenger and me as a judge. Initially, there is an empty infinite $2$-dimensional plane.



    Alternately starting from you, put a single point. Your points will be denoted as $O$-points and mine will be $X$-points. The point we put can be anywhere — it may have Real coordinate — as long as it is not overlapping with any previous points.



    You will win if and only if at some point of time, you can draw a line segment passing $N$ number of $O$-points without passing any $X$-points. Thus, you will lose if and only if I can make sure you can't reach your goal at any point of time.




    Questions:



    1. If $N = 4$, can you win this game?

    2. If $N = 5$, can you win this game?

    3. Can you win this game for any $N$? If yes, then what is the strategy? If no, then what is the smallest number of $N$ which is impossible for you to win?

    This is an example of the game for $N = 3$:



    enter image description here










    share|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      Disclaimer: This is an open-problem, I don't have a complete solution for this puzzle yet.





      We are playing a $2$-player game: you as a challenger and me as a judge. Initially, there is an empty infinite $2$-dimensional plane.



      Alternately starting from you, put a single point. Your points will be denoted as $O$-points and mine will be $X$-points. The point we put can be anywhere — it may have Real coordinate — as long as it is not overlapping with any previous points.



      You will win if and only if at some point of time, you can draw a line segment passing $N$ number of $O$-points without passing any $X$-points. Thus, you will lose if and only if I can make sure you can't reach your goal at any point of time.




      Questions:



      1. If $N = 4$, can you win this game?

      2. If $N = 5$, can you win this game?

      3. Can you win this game for any $N$? If yes, then what is the strategy? If no, then what is the smallest number of $N$ which is impossible for you to win?

      This is an example of the game for $N = 3$:



      enter image description here










      share|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Disclaimer: This is an open-problem, I don't have a complete solution for this puzzle yet.





      We are playing a $2$-player game: you as a challenger and me as a judge. Initially, there is an empty infinite $2$-dimensional plane.



      Alternately starting from you, put a single point. Your points will be denoted as $O$-points and mine will be $X$-points. The point we put can be anywhere — it may have Real coordinate — as long as it is not overlapping with any previous points.



      You will win if and only if at some point of time, you can draw a line segment passing $N$ number of $O$-points without passing any $X$-points. Thus, you will lose if and only if I can make sure you can't reach your goal at any point of time.




      Questions:



      1. If $N = 4$, can you win this game?

      2. If $N = 5$, can you win this game?

      3. Can you win this game for any $N$? If yes, then what is the strategy? If no, then what is the smallest number of $N$ which is impossible for you to win?

      This is an example of the game for $N = 3$:



      enter image description here







      geometry strategy






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 9 hours ago









      athinathin

      10.7k23590




      10.7k23590




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          I think you can




          win even if you need to connect a kajillion dots.




          Here's my reasoning:



          Well, any two points can be connected by a line, right?



          Then you can see that




          When you put a point down, you can draw a line from that point to any other point you already put down. important




          The challenge is that your opponent can block the connections with a point of their own.



          But as you remember about




          the birthday paradox




          Because of the important knowledge above, you see that




          you can connect lines to $n-1$ dots when you put the $nth$ dot down.




          Making the equation




          When you put the $nth$ dot, you have 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + (n-1) connections.




          Let's do 4.
          By putting




          101 dots down, you have 5050 connections!




          Note: In this step don't put any dots in 3 in a row.



          That's a lot of connections you can make with lines.



          Since your opponent has only put




          101 blocking dots down




          you can




          make a 3 in a row with 2 of the remaining connections you have by looking at 2 non-parallel connections. 2 non-parallel lines will connect, right?




          Your opponent can't block both lines, so you got a 4 in a row!



          The strategy for $x$ dots in a line is




          put many many dots to make a kajillion connections. Maybe even Graham's number.




          Then




          make 3 in a row with $2x-3$ non-parallel connections.




          Then




          make 4 in a row with $2x-4$ non-parallel connections.




          Eventually you




          make 2879 in a row with $2x-2879$ non-parallel connections.




          And then you make




          $x$ in a row with $2x-x$ connections. (The hint there is that $2x-x=x$.)




          So you can get infinity in a row! YAY!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            The later stages of your argument aren't very clear to me. E.g., how do you get from 2x-3 to 2x-4, exactly? How many moves does it take and have you taken into account the fact that your opponent gets to make that many moves too? I think this could use some clarification...
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            6 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Precisely as Gareth said. Also, it's not always the case that the $n$-th dot you put make $n-1$ new lines. If you tried to make $3$ in-a-line for example, the number of new lines will be fewer; and how about more in-a-line. Also, the judge may not only block $1$ line, it can be more, for example the intersection of $2$ lines will block at least $2$.
            $endgroup$
            – athin
            3 hours ago











          Your Answer








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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          4












          $begingroup$

          I think you can




          win even if you need to connect a kajillion dots.




          Here's my reasoning:



          Well, any two points can be connected by a line, right?



          Then you can see that




          When you put a point down, you can draw a line from that point to any other point you already put down. important




          The challenge is that your opponent can block the connections with a point of their own.



          But as you remember about




          the birthday paradox




          Because of the important knowledge above, you see that




          you can connect lines to $n-1$ dots when you put the $nth$ dot down.




          Making the equation




          When you put the $nth$ dot, you have 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + (n-1) connections.




          Let's do 4.
          By putting




          101 dots down, you have 5050 connections!




          Note: In this step don't put any dots in 3 in a row.



          That's a lot of connections you can make with lines.



          Since your opponent has only put




          101 blocking dots down




          you can




          make a 3 in a row with 2 of the remaining connections you have by looking at 2 non-parallel connections. 2 non-parallel lines will connect, right?




          Your opponent can't block both lines, so you got a 4 in a row!



          The strategy for $x$ dots in a line is




          put many many dots to make a kajillion connections. Maybe even Graham's number.




          Then




          make 3 in a row with $2x-3$ non-parallel connections.




          Then




          make 4 in a row with $2x-4$ non-parallel connections.




          Eventually you




          make 2879 in a row with $2x-2879$ non-parallel connections.




          And then you make




          $x$ in a row with $2x-x$ connections. (The hint there is that $2x-x=x$.)




          So you can get infinity in a row! YAY!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            The later stages of your argument aren't very clear to me. E.g., how do you get from 2x-3 to 2x-4, exactly? How many moves does it take and have you taken into account the fact that your opponent gets to make that many moves too? I think this could use some clarification...
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            6 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Precisely as Gareth said. Also, it's not always the case that the $n$-th dot you put make $n-1$ new lines. If you tried to make $3$ in-a-line for example, the number of new lines will be fewer; and how about more in-a-line. Also, the judge may not only block $1$ line, it can be more, for example the intersection of $2$ lines will block at least $2$.
            $endgroup$
            – athin
            3 hours ago















          4












          $begingroup$

          I think you can




          win even if you need to connect a kajillion dots.




          Here's my reasoning:



          Well, any two points can be connected by a line, right?



          Then you can see that




          When you put a point down, you can draw a line from that point to any other point you already put down. important




          The challenge is that your opponent can block the connections with a point of their own.



          But as you remember about




          the birthday paradox




          Because of the important knowledge above, you see that




          you can connect lines to $n-1$ dots when you put the $nth$ dot down.




          Making the equation




          When you put the $nth$ dot, you have 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + (n-1) connections.




          Let's do 4.
          By putting




          101 dots down, you have 5050 connections!




          Note: In this step don't put any dots in 3 in a row.



          That's a lot of connections you can make with lines.



          Since your opponent has only put




          101 blocking dots down




          you can




          make a 3 in a row with 2 of the remaining connections you have by looking at 2 non-parallel connections. 2 non-parallel lines will connect, right?




          Your opponent can't block both lines, so you got a 4 in a row!



          The strategy for $x$ dots in a line is




          put many many dots to make a kajillion connections. Maybe even Graham's number.




          Then




          make 3 in a row with $2x-3$ non-parallel connections.




          Then




          make 4 in a row with $2x-4$ non-parallel connections.




          Eventually you




          make 2879 in a row with $2x-2879$ non-parallel connections.




          And then you make




          $x$ in a row with $2x-x$ connections. (The hint there is that $2x-x=x$.)




          So you can get infinity in a row! YAY!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            The later stages of your argument aren't very clear to me. E.g., how do you get from 2x-3 to 2x-4, exactly? How many moves does it take and have you taken into account the fact that your opponent gets to make that many moves too? I think this could use some clarification...
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            6 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Precisely as Gareth said. Also, it's not always the case that the $n$-th dot you put make $n-1$ new lines. If you tried to make $3$ in-a-line for example, the number of new lines will be fewer; and how about more in-a-line. Also, the judge may not only block $1$ line, it can be more, for example the intersection of $2$ lines will block at least $2$.
            $endgroup$
            – athin
            3 hours ago













          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          I think you can




          win even if you need to connect a kajillion dots.




          Here's my reasoning:



          Well, any two points can be connected by a line, right?



          Then you can see that




          When you put a point down, you can draw a line from that point to any other point you already put down. important




          The challenge is that your opponent can block the connections with a point of their own.



          But as you remember about




          the birthday paradox




          Because of the important knowledge above, you see that




          you can connect lines to $n-1$ dots when you put the $nth$ dot down.




          Making the equation




          When you put the $nth$ dot, you have 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + (n-1) connections.




          Let's do 4.
          By putting




          101 dots down, you have 5050 connections!




          Note: In this step don't put any dots in 3 in a row.



          That's a lot of connections you can make with lines.



          Since your opponent has only put




          101 blocking dots down




          you can




          make a 3 in a row with 2 of the remaining connections you have by looking at 2 non-parallel connections. 2 non-parallel lines will connect, right?




          Your opponent can't block both lines, so you got a 4 in a row!



          The strategy for $x$ dots in a line is




          put many many dots to make a kajillion connections. Maybe even Graham's number.




          Then




          make 3 in a row with $2x-3$ non-parallel connections.




          Then




          make 4 in a row with $2x-4$ non-parallel connections.




          Eventually you




          make 2879 in a row with $2x-2879$ non-parallel connections.




          And then you make




          $x$ in a row with $2x-x$ connections. (The hint there is that $2x-x=x$.)




          So you can get infinity in a row! YAY!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          I think you can




          win even if you need to connect a kajillion dots.




          Here's my reasoning:



          Well, any two points can be connected by a line, right?



          Then you can see that




          When you put a point down, you can draw a line from that point to any other point you already put down. important




          The challenge is that your opponent can block the connections with a point of their own.



          But as you remember about




          the birthday paradox




          Because of the important knowledge above, you see that




          you can connect lines to $n-1$ dots when you put the $nth$ dot down.




          Making the equation




          When you put the $nth$ dot, you have 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + (n-1) connections.




          Let's do 4.
          By putting




          101 dots down, you have 5050 connections!




          Note: In this step don't put any dots in 3 in a row.



          That's a lot of connections you can make with lines.



          Since your opponent has only put




          101 blocking dots down




          you can




          make a 3 in a row with 2 of the remaining connections you have by looking at 2 non-parallel connections. 2 non-parallel lines will connect, right?




          Your opponent can't block both lines, so you got a 4 in a row!



          The strategy for $x$ dots in a line is




          put many many dots to make a kajillion connections. Maybe even Graham's number.




          Then




          make 3 in a row with $2x-3$ non-parallel connections.




          Then




          make 4 in a row with $2x-4$ non-parallel connections.




          Eventually you




          make 2879 in a row with $2x-2879$ non-parallel connections.




          And then you make




          $x$ in a row with $2x-x$ connections. (The hint there is that $2x-x=x$.)




          So you can get infinity in a row! YAY!







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 9 hours ago









          AltoAlto

          1,280320




          1,280320







          • 3




            $begingroup$
            The later stages of your argument aren't very clear to me. E.g., how do you get from 2x-3 to 2x-4, exactly? How many moves does it take and have you taken into account the fact that your opponent gets to make that many moves too? I think this could use some clarification...
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            6 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Precisely as Gareth said. Also, it's not always the case that the $n$-th dot you put make $n-1$ new lines. If you tried to make $3$ in-a-line for example, the number of new lines will be fewer; and how about more in-a-line. Also, the judge may not only block $1$ line, it can be more, for example the intersection of $2$ lines will block at least $2$.
            $endgroup$
            – athin
            3 hours ago












          • 3




            $begingroup$
            The later stages of your argument aren't very clear to me. E.g., how do you get from 2x-3 to 2x-4, exactly? How many moves does it take and have you taken into account the fact that your opponent gets to make that many moves too? I think this could use some clarification...
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            6 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Precisely as Gareth said. Also, it's not always the case that the $n$-th dot you put make $n-1$ new lines. If you tried to make $3$ in-a-line for example, the number of new lines will be fewer; and how about more in-a-line. Also, the judge may not only block $1$ line, it can be more, for example the intersection of $2$ lines will block at least $2$.
            $endgroup$
            – athin
            3 hours ago







          3




          3




          $begingroup$
          The later stages of your argument aren't very clear to me. E.g., how do you get from 2x-3 to 2x-4, exactly? How many moves does it take and have you taken into account the fact that your opponent gets to make that many moves too? I think this could use some clarification...
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          The later stages of your argument aren't very clear to me. E.g., how do you get from 2x-3 to 2x-4, exactly? How many moves does it take and have you taken into account the fact that your opponent gets to make that many moves too? I think this could use some clarification...
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          6 hours ago




          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Precisely as Gareth said. Also, it's not always the case that the $n$-th dot you put make $n-1$ new lines. If you tried to make $3$ in-a-line for example, the number of new lines will be fewer; and how about more in-a-line. Also, the judge may not only block $1$ line, it can be more, for example the intersection of $2$ lines will block at least $2$.
          $endgroup$
          – athin
          3 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Precisely as Gareth said. Also, it's not always the case that the $n$-th dot you put make $n-1$ new lines. If you tried to make $3$ in-a-line for example, the number of new lines will be fewer; and how about more in-a-line. Also, the judge may not only block $1$ line, it can be more, for example the intersection of $2$ lines will block at least $2$.
          $endgroup$
          – athin
          3 hours ago

















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