Is this story about US tax office reasonable?How to prove I live in a specific address?In practice, how bad can this get?Do DBAs file separate taxes than the proprietor?When can “exact change” policies be enforced?Taking control of an adult's healthcareIs the use of a community currency instead of the official legal tender a tax evasion?Can language in a settlement agreement have affect on taxes for a personal injury lawsuit?Should I be taxed on electricity in Florida as a private resident?How to contest compensation as an independent contractorHow to report Airbnb income in tax return?

Ticket sales for Queen at the Live Aid

Does this degree 12 genus 1 curve have only one point over infinitely many finite fields?

Crossing US border with music files I'm legally allowed to possess

Plot twist where the antagonist wins

When do characters level up?

How can I get exact maximal value of this expression?

Mother abusing my finances

Apparent Ring of Craters on the Moon

What is the 中 in ダウンロード中?

When and what was the first 3D acceleration device ever released?

Graph with same number of edges and vertices is a loop?

Employer demanding to see degree after poor code review

Canon 70D often overexposing or underexposing shots

Is healing by fire possible?

Can a Beholder use rays in melee range?

Why does the 'metric Lagrangian' approach appear to fail in Newtonian mechanics?

How do I align equations in three columns, justified right, center and left?

Why are C64 games inconsistent with which joystick port they use?

Is the first derivative operation on a signal a causal system?

How strong are Wi-Fi signals?

Riley Rebuses that Share a Common Theme

Is there an evolutionary advantage to having two heads?

PETG layer adhesion

Can you heal a summoned creature?



Is this story about US tax office reasonable?


How to prove I live in a specific address?In practice, how bad can this get?Do DBAs file separate taxes than the proprietor?When can “exact change” policies be enforced?Taking control of an adult's healthcareIs the use of a community currency instead of the official legal tender a tax evasion?Can language in a settlement agreement have affect on taxes for a personal injury lawsuit?Should I be taxed on electricity in Florida as a private resident?How to contest compensation as an independent contractorHow to report Airbnb income in tax return?













1















Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:



A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.



The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".



Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.



Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?



Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?



Or is this story not reasonably possible?










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.

    – Hilmar
    8 hours ago















1















Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:



A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.



The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".



Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.



Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?



Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?



Or is this story not reasonably possible?










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.

    – Hilmar
    8 hours ago













1












1








1








Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:



A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.



The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".



Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.



Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?



Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?



Or is this story not reasonably possible?










share|improve this question














Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:



A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.



The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".



Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.



Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?



Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?



Or is this story not reasonably possible?







united-states tax-law debt






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









gnasher729gnasher729

12.3k1330




12.3k1330







  • 2





    Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.

    – Hilmar
    8 hours ago












  • 2





    Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.

    – Hilmar
    8 hours ago







2




2





Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.

– Hilmar
8 hours ago





Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.

– Hilmar
8 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















4














  1. There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."


  2. If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.


When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.



Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.



I find the story quite implausible.






share|improve this answer

























  • It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.

    – gnasher729
    6 hours ago












  • @gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"

    – David Siegel
    6 hours ago











Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "617"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flaw.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f41454%2fis-this-story-about-us-tax-office-reasonable%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4














  1. There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."


  2. If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.


When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.



Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.



I find the story quite implausible.






share|improve this answer

























  • It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.

    – gnasher729
    6 hours ago












  • @gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"

    – David Siegel
    6 hours ago















4














  1. There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."


  2. If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.


When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.



Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.



I find the story quite implausible.






share|improve this answer

























  • It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.

    – gnasher729
    6 hours ago












  • @gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"

    – David Siegel
    6 hours ago













4












4








4







  1. There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."


  2. If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.


When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.



Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.



I find the story quite implausible.






share|improve this answer















  1. There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."


  2. If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.


When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.



Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.



I find the story quite implausible.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 3 hours ago

























answered 8 hours ago









David SiegelDavid Siegel

20.7k14080




20.7k14080












  • It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.

    – gnasher729
    6 hours ago












  • @gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"

    – David Siegel
    6 hours ago

















  • It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.

    – gnasher729
    6 hours ago












  • @gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"

    – David Siegel
    6 hours ago
















It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.

– gnasher729
6 hours ago






It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.

– gnasher729
6 hours ago














@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"

– David Siegel
6 hours ago





@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"

– David Siegel
6 hours ago

















draft saved

draft discarded
















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Law Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flaw.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f41454%2fis-this-story-about-us-tax-office-reasonable%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

199年 目錄 大件事 到箇年出世嗰人 到箇年死嗰人 節慶、風俗習慣 導覽選單