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What is a terminal plane in high frequency circuits?
DIY Ultra High FrequencyCoiled wire around connector terminal, what do I call this, and how do you do it?Increasing Terminal Block Rating by Combining ContactsTwo-terminal Connection High-Side MOSFET driverWhat is the terminal labelled “U” in some autotransformers?Wire / terminal connectionsSome questions about a terminal block voltage and maximum ratingsWhat type of terminal is thisGet expressions of E and H fields at a boundary from expression of surface current - Pozar ex 1.11
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$begingroup$
The term "terminal planes" come up very frequently in books on microwave circuits. What exactly does the term mean?
The closest answer I have got is
A terminal plane, or reference plane, is the equivalent of a terminal
pair in a low-frequency network
-Foundations of microwave engineering, Robert E Collins
But I don't understand what a "plane" is in this sense, and I don't understand why we couldn't just use the term terminal port?
microwave terminal
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The term "terminal planes" come up very frequently in books on microwave circuits. What exactly does the term mean?
The closest answer I have got is
A terminal plane, or reference plane, is the equivalent of a terminal
pair in a low-frequency network
-Foundations of microwave engineering, Robert E Collins
But I don't understand what a "plane" is in this sense, and I don't understand why we couldn't just use the term terminal port?
microwave terminal
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@DKNguyen No, it doesn't
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The term "terminal planes" come up very frequently in books on microwave circuits. What exactly does the term mean?
The closest answer I have got is
A terminal plane, or reference plane, is the equivalent of a terminal
pair in a low-frequency network
-Foundations of microwave engineering, Robert E Collins
But I don't understand what a "plane" is in this sense, and I don't understand why we couldn't just use the term terminal port?
microwave terminal
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
$endgroup$
The term "terminal planes" come up very frequently in books on microwave circuits. What exactly does the term mean?
The closest answer I have got is
A terminal plane, or reference plane, is the equivalent of a terminal
pair in a low-frequency network
-Foundations of microwave engineering, Robert E Collins
But I don't understand what a "plane" is in this sense, and I don't understand why we couldn't just use the term terminal port?
microwave terminal
microwave terminal
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Pradyoth ShandilyaPradyoth Shandilya
656 bronze badges
656 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
@DKNguyen No, it doesn't
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
$begingroup$
@DKNguyen No, it doesn't
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@DKNguyen No, it doesn't
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DKNguyen No, it doesn't
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's called a reference plane because, for both coaxial cable and hollow rectangular waveguides, an ideal connector cuts across the guide in a plane cut.
This is what a waveguide connector looks like, a flange with a plane cut across the guide.
This is a pair of APC-7 (A Precision Connector - 7mm) connectors, designed for precision measurement specifically so that the breaks in the inner and the outer line up to form a plane.
Distances from the 'connector' are measured from this plane.
In a more conventional RF connector like BNC, N-type or SMA, the break in the outer defines the plane.
Any plane across the guide can be taken as a reference plane when doing maths with the phase of RF waves propagating along the guide.
The most usually used planes are those of the connectors, as we are usually interested in reflection coefficients of components with respect to their connectors.
You will however sometimes see evaluation boards for RF components, with a line drawn on the board across a microstrip line, with a note that some S-Parameters are quoted with reference to this plane. This can be useful when you will be copying the reference design, and can choose that cut point as your virtual connector.
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So any cross-section of this waveguide could be my "reference plane" right?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya yes! That's up to you to define :) (attention: under the assumption that the wave is normal to that plane, but I was assuming that this was inherent when you said "cross-section")
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Damn, the combined answers of both MarcusMüller and Neil_UK gives me the right answer. How do I select the correct answer?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya Mine has prettier pictures, but the advice is to wait for 24 hours before accepting any answer, as a better one might come in from a different time zone.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Neil_UK, lmao. Good advice though. Any chance one of you guys can combine both the answers to a single one? Or is there an option for me to do that?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
This often goes a bit beyond the strict meaning of the word "plane": it often also comes with an (usually very explicitly stated) understanding that a wave front "comes in" through that plane, and that the plane is at a given reference impedance $Z_0$. Think of it as a "cut" through the path a wave travels, especially in closed wave guides.
This becomes especially relevant with measurement equipment, where "phase obtained through a system" really has no meaning until you specify at which point you define your zero-phase to be.
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's called a reference plane because, for both coaxial cable and hollow rectangular waveguides, an ideal connector cuts across the guide in a plane cut.
This is what a waveguide connector looks like, a flange with a plane cut across the guide.
This is a pair of APC-7 (A Precision Connector - 7mm) connectors, designed for precision measurement specifically so that the breaks in the inner and the outer line up to form a plane.
Distances from the 'connector' are measured from this plane.
In a more conventional RF connector like BNC, N-type or SMA, the break in the outer defines the plane.
Any plane across the guide can be taken as a reference plane when doing maths with the phase of RF waves propagating along the guide.
The most usually used planes are those of the connectors, as we are usually interested in reflection coefficients of components with respect to their connectors.
You will however sometimes see evaluation boards for RF components, with a line drawn on the board across a microstrip line, with a note that some S-Parameters are quoted with reference to this plane. This can be useful when you will be copying the reference design, and can choose that cut point as your virtual connector.
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So any cross-section of this waveguide could be my "reference plane" right?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya yes! That's up to you to define :) (attention: under the assumption that the wave is normal to that plane, but I was assuming that this was inherent when you said "cross-section")
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Damn, the combined answers of both MarcusMüller and Neil_UK gives me the right answer. How do I select the correct answer?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya Mine has prettier pictures, but the advice is to wait for 24 hours before accepting any answer, as a better one might come in from a different time zone.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Neil_UK, lmao. Good advice though. Any chance one of you guys can combine both the answers to a single one? Or is there an option for me to do that?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
It's called a reference plane because, for both coaxial cable and hollow rectangular waveguides, an ideal connector cuts across the guide in a plane cut.
This is what a waveguide connector looks like, a flange with a plane cut across the guide.
This is a pair of APC-7 (A Precision Connector - 7mm) connectors, designed for precision measurement specifically so that the breaks in the inner and the outer line up to form a plane.
Distances from the 'connector' are measured from this plane.
In a more conventional RF connector like BNC, N-type or SMA, the break in the outer defines the plane.
Any plane across the guide can be taken as a reference plane when doing maths with the phase of RF waves propagating along the guide.
The most usually used planes are those of the connectors, as we are usually interested in reflection coefficients of components with respect to their connectors.
You will however sometimes see evaluation boards for RF components, with a line drawn on the board across a microstrip line, with a note that some S-Parameters are quoted with reference to this plane. This can be useful when you will be copying the reference design, and can choose that cut point as your virtual connector.
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So any cross-section of this waveguide could be my "reference plane" right?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya yes! That's up to you to define :) (attention: under the assumption that the wave is normal to that plane, but I was assuming that this was inherent when you said "cross-section")
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Damn, the combined answers of both MarcusMüller and Neil_UK gives me the right answer. How do I select the correct answer?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya Mine has prettier pictures, but the advice is to wait for 24 hours before accepting any answer, as a better one might come in from a different time zone.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Neil_UK, lmao. Good advice though. Any chance one of you guys can combine both the answers to a single one? Or is there an option for me to do that?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
It's called a reference plane because, for both coaxial cable and hollow rectangular waveguides, an ideal connector cuts across the guide in a plane cut.
This is what a waveguide connector looks like, a flange with a plane cut across the guide.
This is a pair of APC-7 (A Precision Connector - 7mm) connectors, designed for precision measurement specifically so that the breaks in the inner and the outer line up to form a plane.
Distances from the 'connector' are measured from this plane.
In a more conventional RF connector like BNC, N-type or SMA, the break in the outer defines the plane.
Any plane across the guide can be taken as a reference plane when doing maths with the phase of RF waves propagating along the guide.
The most usually used planes are those of the connectors, as we are usually interested in reflection coefficients of components with respect to their connectors.
You will however sometimes see evaluation boards for RF components, with a line drawn on the board across a microstrip line, with a note that some S-Parameters are quoted with reference to this plane. This can be useful when you will be copying the reference design, and can choose that cut point as your virtual connector.
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
$endgroup$
It's called a reference plane because, for both coaxial cable and hollow rectangular waveguides, an ideal connector cuts across the guide in a plane cut.
This is what a waveguide connector looks like, a flange with a plane cut across the guide.
This is a pair of APC-7 (A Precision Connector - 7mm) connectors, designed for precision measurement specifically so that the breaks in the inner and the outer line up to form a plane.
Distances from the 'connector' are measured from this plane.
In a more conventional RF connector like BNC, N-type or SMA, the break in the outer defines the plane.
Any plane across the guide can be taken as a reference plane when doing maths with the phase of RF waves propagating along the guide.
The most usually used planes are those of the connectors, as we are usually interested in reflection coefficients of components with respect to their connectors.
You will however sometimes see evaluation boards for RF components, with a line drawn on the board across a microstrip line, with a note that some S-Parameters are quoted with reference to this plane. This can be useful when you will be copying the reference design, and can choose that cut point as your virtual connector.
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Neil_UKNeil_UK
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
87.4k2 gold badges89 silver badges202 bronze badges
$begingroup$
So any cross-section of this waveguide could be my "reference plane" right?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya yes! That's up to you to define :) (attention: under the assumption that the wave is normal to that plane, but I was assuming that this was inherent when you said "cross-section")
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Damn, the combined answers of both MarcusMüller and Neil_UK gives me the right answer. How do I select the correct answer?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya Mine has prettier pictures, but the advice is to wait for 24 hours before accepting any answer, as a better one might come in from a different time zone.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Neil_UK, lmao. Good advice though. Any chance one of you guys can combine both the answers to a single one? Or is there an option for me to do that?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
So any cross-section of this waveguide could be my "reference plane" right?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya yes! That's up to you to define :) (attention: under the assumption that the wave is normal to that plane, but I was assuming that this was inherent when you said "cross-section")
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Damn, the combined answers of both MarcusMüller and Neil_UK gives me the right answer. How do I select the correct answer?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya Mine has prettier pictures, but the advice is to wait for 24 hours before accepting any answer, as a better one might come in from a different time zone.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Neil_UK, lmao. Good advice though. Any chance one of you guys can combine both the answers to a single one? Or is there an option for me to do that?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
So any cross-section of this waveguide could be my "reference plane" right?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
So any cross-section of this waveguide could be my "reference plane" right?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya yes! That's up to you to define :) (attention: under the assumption that the wave is normal to that plane, but I was assuming that this was inherent when you said "cross-section")
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya yes! That's up to you to define :) (attention: under the assumption that the wave is normal to that plane, but I was assuming that this was inherent when you said "cross-section")
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Damn, the combined answers of both MarcusMüller and Neil_UK gives me the right answer. How do I select the correct answer?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Damn, the combined answers of both MarcusMüller and Neil_UK gives me the right answer. How do I select the correct answer?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya Mine has prettier pictures, but the advice is to wait for 24 hours before accepting any answer, as a better one might come in from a different time zone.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PradyothShandilya Mine has prettier pictures, but the advice is to wait for 24 hours before accepting any answer, as a better one might come in from a different time zone.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Neil_UK, lmao. Good advice though. Any chance one of you guys can combine both the answers to a single one? Or is there an option for me to do that?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Neil_UK, lmao. Good advice though. Any chance one of you guys can combine both the answers to a single one? Or is there an option for me to do that?
$endgroup$
– Pradyoth Shandilya
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
This often goes a bit beyond the strict meaning of the word "plane": it often also comes with an (usually very explicitly stated) understanding that a wave front "comes in" through that plane, and that the plane is at a given reference impedance $Z_0$. Think of it as a "cut" through the path a wave travels, especially in closed wave guides.
This becomes especially relevant with measurement equipment, where "phase obtained through a system" really has no meaning until you specify at which point you define your zero-phase to be.
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
This often goes a bit beyond the strict meaning of the word "plane": it often also comes with an (usually very explicitly stated) understanding that a wave front "comes in" through that plane, and that the plane is at a given reference impedance $Z_0$. Think of it as a "cut" through the path a wave travels, especially in closed wave guides.
This becomes especially relevant with measurement equipment, where "phase obtained through a system" really has no meaning until you specify at which point you define your zero-phase to be.
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
This often goes a bit beyond the strict meaning of the word "plane": it often also comes with an (usually very explicitly stated) understanding that a wave front "comes in" through that plane, and that the plane is at a given reference impedance $Z_0$. Think of it as a "cut" through the path a wave travels, especially in closed wave guides.
This becomes especially relevant with measurement equipment, where "phase obtained through a system" really has no meaning until you specify at which point you define your zero-phase to be.
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
This often goes a bit beyond the strict meaning of the word "plane": it often also comes with an (usually very explicitly stated) understanding that a wave front "comes in" through that plane, and that the plane is at a given reference impedance $Z_0$. Think of it as a "cut" through the path a wave travels, especially in closed wave guides.
This becomes especially relevant with measurement equipment, where "phase obtained through a system" really has no meaning until you specify at which point you define your zero-phase to be.
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
answered 7 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
41.1k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
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$begingroup$
@DKNguyen No, it doesn't
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The reference plane is exactly that: The plane relative to which distances, and hence phases, etc are described.
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
7 hours ago