Is the mass of paint relevant in rocket design?Did Apollo carry and use WD40?What is the ideal shape for a rocket?A cryo tank within another cryo tank…is it a sound engineering concept?Limits of bypass ratio in air-augmented (ejector-jet/ducted) rocketHow can a rocket's self-destruct make for a safer situation than being out-of-control?What is the minimum rocket mass that can achieve GEOCan planet Earthtoo put a Tooian in orbit too?How much modification would Dragon 2 or Red Dragon require to serve as a lunar lander?Is it true that hydrogen is the only practical fuel for upper stages?Highest stage count that are used one right after the other?
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Is the mass of paint relevant in rocket design?
Did Apollo carry and use WD40?What is the ideal shape for a rocket?A cryo tank within another cryo tank…is it a sound engineering concept?Limits of bypass ratio in air-augmented (ejector-jet/ducted) rocketHow can a rocket's self-destruct make for a safer situation than being out-of-control?What is the minimum rocket mass that can achieve GEOCan planet Earthtoo put a Tooian in orbit too?How much modification would Dragon 2 or Red Dragon require to serve as a lunar lander?Is it true that hydrogen is the only practical fuel for upper stages?Highest stage count that are used one right after the other?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
(Prompted by this answer):
Do the designers of large rockets* (have to) take the mass of the exterior paint into account?
If so, do we have examples of actual design changes/decisions based on this (and not on other paint properties like color/heat exchange)?
* Saturn 5, the larger Deltas, Falcons, ...
rockets design mass
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
(Prompted by this answer):
Do the designers of large rockets* (have to) take the mass of the exterior paint into account?
If so, do we have examples of actual design changes/decisions based on this (and not on other paint properties like color/heat exchange)?
* Saturn 5, the larger Deltas, Falcons, ...
rockets design mass
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I remember looking through the documentation for a Cessna 152 (two seat flight trainer) and marvelling at the fact that, not only did they list the weight and center of gravity for the exterior paint, but they also broke it down into separate numbers for the white base coat and for the color stripe.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
(Prompted by this answer):
Do the designers of large rockets* (have to) take the mass of the exterior paint into account?
If so, do we have examples of actual design changes/decisions based on this (and not on other paint properties like color/heat exchange)?
* Saturn 5, the larger Deltas, Falcons, ...
rockets design mass
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
$endgroup$
(Prompted by this answer):
Do the designers of large rockets* (have to) take the mass of the exterior paint into account?
If so, do we have examples of actual design changes/decisions based on this (and not on other paint properties like color/heat exchange)?
* Saturn 5, the larger Deltas, Falcons, ...
rockets design mass
rockets design mass
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Jan DoggenJan Doggen
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
9611 gold badge12 silver badges24 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
I remember looking through the documentation for a Cessna 152 (two seat flight trainer) and marvelling at the fact that, not only did they list the weight and center of gravity for the exterior paint, but they also broke it down into separate numbers for the white base coat and for the color stripe.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
$begingroup$
I remember looking through the documentation for a Cessna 152 (two seat flight trainer) and marvelling at the fact that, not only did they list the weight and center of gravity for the exterior paint, but they also broke it down into separate numbers for the white base coat and for the color stripe.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I remember looking through the documentation for a Cessna 152 (two seat flight trainer) and marvelling at the fact that, not only did they list the weight and center of gravity for the exterior paint, but they also broke it down into separate numbers for the white base coat and for the color stripe.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I remember looking through the documentation for a Cessna 152 (two seat flight trainer) and marvelling at the fact that, not only did they list the weight and center of gravity for the exterior paint, but they also broke it down into separate numbers for the white base coat and for the color stripe.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
When the shuttle External Tank stopped being painted white, the weight savings was ~600 lbs (~270 kg).
This is not a tremendous amount from a vehicle standpoint, but the tank was carried almost to orbit, so weight shaved off it was a direct addition to payload capability, and that amount could be significant for payloads.
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
I never looked at it from that direction: weight saved = extra payload possible given the same design
$endgroup$
– Jan Doggen
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JanDoggen don't know about other vehicles, but shuttle's propellant tanks were always filled to the same point, so on a given mission, a weight savings either meant more weight for payloads or performance margin.
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
WD-40 was designed to protect the Atlas rocket from rust and corrosion. The skin of the Atlas was so thin, to save weight, that from the moment it was welded together it always had to be pressurized so it wouldn't collapse in on itself. It needed that protectant because it was unpainted, to save weight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(rocket_family)#SM-65_Atlas_missile
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
But why needed tanks made from stainless steel protection against rusting? Was it a low quality stainless steel not immune to rust?
$endgroup$
– Uwe
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good question! I had never seen the alloy mentioned. Looking around... Greg Smith tells us that it's 301, which is stronger but less corrosion-resistant than 304. But I don't know what his authority is. Jeff Deem also mentions the corrosiveness of sea air. groups.io/g/cia-rocketry/topic/mercury_atlas_rocket/…
$endgroup$
– Greg
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
My 1964 Spacecraft and Boosters book agrees that its' "a special cold-rolled austenitic steel (A1S1 grade 301) (p.219)
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
When the shuttle External Tank stopped being painted white, the weight savings was ~600 lbs (~270 kg).
This is not a tremendous amount from a vehicle standpoint, but the tank was carried almost to orbit, so weight shaved off it was a direct addition to payload capability, and that amount could be significant for payloads.
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
I never looked at it from that direction: weight saved = extra payload possible given the same design
$endgroup$
– Jan Doggen
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JanDoggen don't know about other vehicles, but shuttle's propellant tanks were always filled to the same point, so on a given mission, a weight savings either meant more weight for payloads or performance margin.
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
When the shuttle External Tank stopped being painted white, the weight savings was ~600 lbs (~270 kg).
This is not a tremendous amount from a vehicle standpoint, but the tank was carried almost to orbit, so weight shaved off it was a direct addition to payload capability, and that amount could be significant for payloads.
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
I never looked at it from that direction: weight saved = extra payload possible given the same design
$endgroup$
– Jan Doggen
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JanDoggen don't know about other vehicles, but shuttle's propellant tanks were always filled to the same point, so on a given mission, a weight savings either meant more weight for payloads or performance margin.
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
When the shuttle External Tank stopped being painted white, the weight savings was ~600 lbs (~270 kg).
This is not a tremendous amount from a vehicle standpoint, but the tank was carried almost to orbit, so weight shaved off it was a direct addition to payload capability, and that amount could be significant for payloads.
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
$endgroup$
When the shuttle External Tank stopped being painted white, the weight savings was ~600 lbs (~270 kg).
This is not a tremendous amount from a vehicle standpoint, but the tank was carried almost to orbit, so weight shaved off it was a direct addition to payload capability, and that amount could be significant for payloads.
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
edited 6 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Organic MarbleOrganic Marble
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
79.6k4 gold badges240 silver badges342 bronze badges
2
$begingroup$
I never looked at it from that direction: weight saved = extra payload possible given the same design
$endgroup$
– Jan Doggen
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JanDoggen don't know about other vehicles, but shuttle's propellant tanks were always filled to the same point, so on a given mission, a weight savings either meant more weight for payloads or performance margin.
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
2
$begingroup$
I never looked at it from that direction: weight saved = extra payload possible given the same design
$endgroup$
– Jan Doggen
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JanDoggen don't know about other vehicles, but shuttle's propellant tanks were always filled to the same point, so on a given mission, a weight savings either meant more weight for payloads or performance margin.
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
I never looked at it from that direction: weight saved = extra payload possible given the same design
$endgroup$
– Jan Doggen
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I never looked at it from that direction: weight saved = extra payload possible given the same design
$endgroup$
– Jan Doggen
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@JanDoggen don't know about other vehicles, but shuttle's propellant tanks were always filled to the same point, so on a given mission, a weight savings either meant more weight for payloads or performance margin.
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JanDoggen don't know about other vehicles, but shuttle's propellant tanks were always filled to the same point, so on a given mission, a weight savings either meant more weight for payloads or performance margin.
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
WD-40 was designed to protect the Atlas rocket from rust and corrosion. The skin of the Atlas was so thin, to save weight, that from the moment it was welded together it always had to be pressurized so it wouldn't collapse in on itself. It needed that protectant because it was unpainted, to save weight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(rocket_family)#SM-65_Atlas_missile
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
But why needed tanks made from stainless steel protection against rusting? Was it a low quality stainless steel not immune to rust?
$endgroup$
– Uwe
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good question! I had never seen the alloy mentioned. Looking around... Greg Smith tells us that it's 301, which is stronger but less corrosion-resistant than 304. But I don't know what his authority is. Jeff Deem also mentions the corrosiveness of sea air. groups.io/g/cia-rocketry/topic/mercury_atlas_rocket/…
$endgroup$
– Greg
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
My 1964 Spacecraft and Boosters book agrees that its' "a special cold-rolled austenitic steel (A1S1 grade 301) (p.219)
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
WD-40 was designed to protect the Atlas rocket from rust and corrosion. The skin of the Atlas was so thin, to save weight, that from the moment it was welded together it always had to be pressurized so it wouldn't collapse in on itself. It needed that protectant because it was unpainted, to save weight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(rocket_family)#SM-65_Atlas_missile
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
But why needed tanks made from stainless steel protection against rusting? Was it a low quality stainless steel not immune to rust?
$endgroup$
– Uwe
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good question! I had never seen the alloy mentioned. Looking around... Greg Smith tells us that it's 301, which is stronger but less corrosion-resistant than 304. But I don't know what his authority is. Jeff Deem also mentions the corrosiveness of sea air. groups.io/g/cia-rocketry/topic/mercury_atlas_rocket/…
$endgroup$
– Greg
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
My 1964 Spacecraft and Boosters book agrees that its' "a special cold-rolled austenitic steel (A1S1 grade 301) (p.219)
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
WD-40 was designed to protect the Atlas rocket from rust and corrosion. The skin of the Atlas was so thin, to save weight, that from the moment it was welded together it always had to be pressurized so it wouldn't collapse in on itself. It needed that protectant because it was unpainted, to save weight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(rocket_family)#SM-65_Atlas_missile
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
$endgroup$
WD-40 was designed to protect the Atlas rocket from rust and corrosion. The skin of the Atlas was so thin, to save weight, that from the moment it was welded together it always had to be pressurized so it wouldn't collapse in on itself. It needed that protectant because it was unpainted, to save weight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(rocket_family)#SM-65_Atlas_missile
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
answered 3 hours ago
GregGreg
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
1,7605 silver badges12 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
But why needed tanks made from stainless steel protection against rusting? Was it a low quality stainless steel not immune to rust?
$endgroup$
– Uwe
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good question! I had never seen the alloy mentioned. Looking around... Greg Smith tells us that it's 301, which is stronger but less corrosion-resistant than 304. But I don't know what his authority is. Jeff Deem also mentions the corrosiveness of sea air. groups.io/g/cia-rocketry/topic/mercury_atlas_rocket/…
$endgroup$
– Greg
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
My 1964 Spacecraft and Boosters book agrees that its' "a special cold-rolled austenitic steel (A1S1 grade 301) (p.219)
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
$begingroup$
But why needed tanks made from stainless steel protection against rusting? Was it a low quality stainless steel not immune to rust?
$endgroup$
– Uwe
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good question! I had never seen the alloy mentioned. Looking around... Greg Smith tells us that it's 301, which is stronger but less corrosion-resistant than 304. But I don't know what his authority is. Jeff Deem also mentions the corrosiveness of sea air. groups.io/g/cia-rocketry/topic/mercury_atlas_rocket/…
$endgroup$
– Greg
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
My 1964 Spacecraft and Boosters book agrees that its' "a special cold-rolled austenitic steel (A1S1 grade 301) (p.219)
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
But why needed tanks made from stainless steel protection against rusting? Was it a low quality stainless steel not immune to rust?
$endgroup$
– Uwe
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
But why needed tanks made from stainless steel protection against rusting? Was it a low quality stainless steel not immune to rust?
$endgroup$
– Uwe
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Good question! I had never seen the alloy mentioned. Looking around... Greg Smith tells us that it's 301, which is stronger but less corrosion-resistant than 304. But I don't know what his authority is. Jeff Deem also mentions the corrosiveness of sea air. groups.io/g/cia-rocketry/topic/mercury_atlas_rocket/…
$endgroup$
– Greg
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good question! I had never seen the alloy mentioned. Looking around... Greg Smith tells us that it's 301, which is stronger but less corrosion-resistant than 304. But I don't know what his authority is. Jeff Deem also mentions the corrosiveness of sea air. groups.io/g/cia-rocketry/topic/mercury_atlas_rocket/…
$endgroup$
– Greg
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
My 1964 Spacecraft and Boosters book agrees that its' "a special cold-rolled austenitic steel (A1S1 grade 301) (p.219)
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
My 1964 Spacecraft and Boosters book agrees that its' "a special cold-rolled austenitic steel (A1S1 grade 301) (p.219)
$endgroup$
– Organic Marble
2 hours ago
add a comment
|
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$begingroup$
I remember looking through the documentation for a Cessna 152 (two seat flight trainer) and marvelling at the fact that, not only did they list the weight and center of gravity for the exterior paint, but they also broke it down into separate numbers for the white base coat and for the color stripe.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
6 hours ago