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Is future tense in English really a myth?
What is the present tense expressing future?How future tense was expressed in PIE?Why does English have progressive aspect but German does not?Imperfective aspect or Future tense?Are there any languages with a plufuture for tense sequencing?Voiced “th” in “thank you”?English centering diphthongs - a myth?Is there really a perfect tense?What are some languages with inflected future tense?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
Does English have really two tenses-present and past? Some linguists argue that it is Latinate fallacy to think that English has got three tenses.
Some English professors and Even some native speakers do not accept the proposition.
If it is true ,why are the standard grammar books published by Cambridge and Oxford Publications still mentioning the term future tense.Is it not misleading the learners?
Can we call the two sentences given below present continuous?
1.I am working here today.
2.I will be working here tomorrow.
I have doubts regarding others forms
too.
My question is: Does English really have only two tenses.
I hope the answer will be comprehensive.
english tense tense-aspect-mood
New contributor
Jagatha V L Narasimharao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
Does English have really two tenses-present and past? Some linguists argue that it is Latinate fallacy to think that English has got three tenses.
Some English professors and Even some native speakers do not accept the proposition.
If it is true ,why are the standard grammar books published by Cambridge and Oxford Publications still mentioning the term future tense.Is it not misleading the learners?
Can we call the two sentences given below present continuous?
1.I am working here today.
2.I will be working here tomorrow.
I have doubts regarding others forms
too.
My question is: Does English really have only two tenses.
I hope the answer will be comprehensive.
english tense tense-aspect-mood
New contributor
Jagatha V L Narasimharao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
You have a problem to call using a help verb (will) to express future, a real future tense?
– Joop Eggen
8 hours ago
2
The question is where to stop. If you allow will to be called the future tense, what will you call must, for instance? Or be going to? And what about used to as a past tense? One could go on indefinitely. The dispute is over the change that English made from being an inflected language like German or Latin that uses endings to being an analytic language that uses auxiliaries, articles, complementizers, prepositions, and other little particles in constructions to do the same work as inflection. You can call it what you want, but the linguists' way is the most consistent.
– jlawler
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Does English have really two tenses-present and past? Some linguists argue that it is Latinate fallacy to think that English has got three tenses.
Some English professors and Even some native speakers do not accept the proposition.
If it is true ,why are the standard grammar books published by Cambridge and Oxford Publications still mentioning the term future tense.Is it not misleading the learners?
Can we call the two sentences given below present continuous?
1.I am working here today.
2.I will be working here tomorrow.
I have doubts regarding others forms
too.
My question is: Does English really have only two tenses.
I hope the answer will be comprehensive.
english tense tense-aspect-mood
New contributor
Jagatha V L Narasimharao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Does English have really two tenses-present and past? Some linguists argue that it is Latinate fallacy to think that English has got three tenses.
Some English professors and Even some native speakers do not accept the proposition.
If it is true ,why are the standard grammar books published by Cambridge and Oxford Publications still mentioning the term future tense.Is it not misleading the learners?
Can we call the two sentences given below present continuous?
1.I am working here today.
2.I will be working here tomorrow.
I have doubts regarding others forms
too.
My question is: Does English really have only two tenses.
I hope the answer will be comprehensive.
english tense tense-aspect-mood
english tense tense-aspect-mood
New contributor
Jagatha V L Narasimharao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Jagatha V L Narasimharao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 39 mins ago
curiousdannii
3,0413 gold badges15 silver badges32 bronze badges
3,0413 gold badges15 silver badges32 bronze badges
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
Jagatha V L NarasimharaoJagatha V L Narasimharao
3173 silver badges11 bronze badges
3173 silver badges11 bronze badges
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Jagatha V L Narasimharao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
You have a problem to call using a help verb (will) to express future, a real future tense?
– Joop Eggen
8 hours ago
2
The question is where to stop. If you allow will to be called the future tense, what will you call must, for instance? Or be going to? And what about used to as a past tense? One could go on indefinitely. The dispute is over the change that English made from being an inflected language like German or Latin that uses endings to being an analytic language that uses auxiliaries, articles, complementizers, prepositions, and other little particles in constructions to do the same work as inflection. You can call it what you want, but the linguists' way is the most consistent.
– jlawler
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
You have a problem to call using a help verb (will) to express future, a real future tense?
– Joop Eggen
8 hours ago
2
The question is where to stop. If you allow will to be called the future tense, what will you call must, for instance? Or be going to? And what about used to as a past tense? One could go on indefinitely. The dispute is over the change that English made from being an inflected language like German or Latin that uses endings to being an analytic language that uses auxiliaries, articles, complementizers, prepositions, and other little particles in constructions to do the same work as inflection. You can call it what you want, but the linguists' way is the most consistent.
– jlawler
8 hours ago
1
1
You have a problem to call using a help verb (will) to express future, a real future tense?
– Joop Eggen
8 hours ago
You have a problem to call using a help verb (will) to express future, a real future tense?
– Joop Eggen
8 hours ago
2
2
The question is where to stop. If you allow will to be called the future tense, what will you call must, for instance? Or be going to? And what about used to as a past tense? One could go on indefinitely. The dispute is over the change that English made from being an inflected language like German or Latin that uses endings to being an analytic language that uses auxiliaries, articles, complementizers, prepositions, and other little particles in constructions to do the same work as inflection. You can call it what you want, but the linguists' way is the most consistent.
– jlawler
8 hours ago
The question is where to stop. If you allow will to be called the future tense, what will you call must, for instance? Or be going to? And what about used to as a past tense? One could go on indefinitely. The dispute is over the change that English made from being an inflected language like German or Latin that uses endings to being an analytic language that uses auxiliaries, articles, complementizers, prepositions, and other little particles in constructions to do the same work as inflection. You can call it what you want, but the linguists' way is the most consistent.
– jlawler
8 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Does English really have only two tenses.
It depends how you define "tense", but to most linguists, yes.
All languages can mark the time when an event occurs, to any degree of specificity you want. You can say "I played a game", or "I played a game yesterday", or "I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th", and so on.
Linguists generally only call it "tense" (sometimes "morphological tense", though that's not quite the same thing) when this marking is mandatory. For example, if I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th, then "I played a game yesterday" is perfectly correct (as of the time of writing), and "I played a game" is also fine. But that -ed is mandatory for past-tense verbs in English: that part can't be left off. As soon as I switch to "I play a game", the meaning has changed significantly.
And in English, the only mandatory morphological distinction is between past and non-past. It's conventional to use "will" to mark events happening in the future, but you can also have future meanings without it: how about "I'm going to play a game"? Or "after I play this game [I'm going to go get pizza]"? In both cases, the game-playing will happen in the future, but no "will" is required. The only thing that is required is using a non-past form, since the event is non-past: we can't say *"after I played this game [I'm going to go get pizza]". (The star before it is linguistics shorthand for "this isn't valid".)
This is why some languages, like Mandarin, are said to be tenseless. Mandarin is certainly capable of expressing whether an event happens in the past, present, or future. But this marking is not mandatory: it's entirely optional, like whether to include "…yesterday" or "…tomorrow" in English. So linguists say Mandarin has no (morphological) tenses at all.
1
In Ukrainian and Russian which have synthetic future verb forms, using them when speaking about future is not mandatory, too. Shall I consider that these two languages have no future tenses? ('You will play': Ukrainian зіграєш, гратимеш, Russian сыграешь - these verb forms have only future meaning, they cannot be used for other tenses or time planes).
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky I'm afraid I'm terrible at Russian; if they're not mandatory, is there a difference in meaning between using and not using them for a future event? What is it that they convey specifically?
– Draconis
5 hours ago
2
They convey nothing special except that they are 100% future. Usually when talking about future, they are used, but very often the present forms are used instead, and if there's an indication it's about future, like 'tomorrow' or 'next week', there's absolutely no difference, which form is used, future of present. My point is that "mandatory" is not the best criterion to tell if it is a tense or not. Present can be used when talking about the past: "Yesterday I'm entering the bar and I see Bill! He's sitting there drinking beer as if nothing has happened."
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky That's part of why I've always been hesitant about this particular analysis of English's future auxiliaries. The same thing happens in Romance languages; the inflectional future can occasionally have modal or evidential meanings (IT: "Sarà il postino" be.FUT.3SG the postman, "it must be the postman, I infer") and it's fine to refer to future events in the present if it's marked otherwise (FR: "On part en Asie l'année prochaine" we=leave.IND.PRES in Asia the year next, "we visit Asia next year")
– Eau qui dort
3 hours ago
This is a distinction I’ve never seen before, mandatory markedness being a requirement for something to be a tense. The reason given for why English is said to have only two tenses has always, in my experience, been that English has only two morphological tenses (i.e., temporal constructions which are expressed solely through morphology). Marking is much more nebulous, too: “I play a game yesterday” is fine as a narrative present, for example, so would English only have one tense by that definition?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
10 mins ago
add a comment |
There is an argument for distinguishing morphological tenses from periphrastic tenses. The English verb “to be” has five morphological tenses:
present: I am
past: I was
present subjunctive: (if) I be
past subjunctive: (if) I were
imperative: be!
Periphrastic tenses combine a form of the verb with a battery of auxiliaries, giving:
present continuous: I am working
past continuous: I was working
future: I shall/will work
future continuous: I shall/will be working
and a lot more.
Your question is basically whether “tense” is a morphological category or a syntactic category. Both positions have their supporters, but the former is neater.
It is only now when the future tense deteriorated to the mere one auxiliary 'will' that it lost its look as a true tense, but quite recently, like 50 years ago, it used to have the 1st.p. vs. non-1st.p. distinction, shall vs. will suppletive auxiliaries, and this feature distinguished it from both 'shall' and 'will' as modal verbs which have just one single form for all the persons and numbers. We can speak about the on-going restructuring of the future tense, but definitely not about its absence as such.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
Please don't confuse matters further by calling modal and aspect forms tenses.
– curiousdannii
38 mins ago
add a comment |
It depends on what you mean by "tense". One thing that goes into making a "tense" is time reference, so the English future qualifies on that basis. The other thing, though, is "grammaticalization", such as affixing a certain morpheme to verbs to form the particular verb form. Compare how past, present and future are constructed in Swahili, Assamese, or Lushootseed where you add certain affixes. If your understanding of "tense" is that it's about verb form, then English doesn't have a future tense. But we can still convey future time reference by adding something in the neighborhood of the verb (an auxiliary like "shall", "will", "may", subordination like "going to" or "intend to", or "about to").
In Swahili, tenses are marked with prefixes on the verb, preceded by the subject personal prefix. For the future tense, the prefix is -ta-, e.g. nitapiga 'I will beat': ni-ta-pig-a – 1st.p.sg-future-beat-ind.mood. If you wrote it as *ni ta piga, you'd have it exactly word-for-word as the English "I will beat", or, vice versa, if in English we wrote it as '*iwillbeat', we'd have it as a verb with 2 prefixes, exactly like in Swahili.
– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago
It's not about spelling, it's about whether you have different verb forms. nitakupigia is one word, a verb form, translatable into English as 5 words.
– user6726
6 hours ago
Anyhow, -ta- is a prefix, not suffix.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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active
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Does English really have only two tenses.
It depends how you define "tense", but to most linguists, yes.
All languages can mark the time when an event occurs, to any degree of specificity you want. You can say "I played a game", or "I played a game yesterday", or "I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th", and so on.
Linguists generally only call it "tense" (sometimes "morphological tense", though that's not quite the same thing) when this marking is mandatory. For example, if I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th, then "I played a game yesterday" is perfectly correct (as of the time of writing), and "I played a game" is also fine. But that -ed is mandatory for past-tense verbs in English: that part can't be left off. As soon as I switch to "I play a game", the meaning has changed significantly.
And in English, the only mandatory morphological distinction is between past and non-past. It's conventional to use "will" to mark events happening in the future, but you can also have future meanings without it: how about "I'm going to play a game"? Or "after I play this game [I'm going to go get pizza]"? In both cases, the game-playing will happen in the future, but no "will" is required. The only thing that is required is using a non-past form, since the event is non-past: we can't say *"after I played this game [I'm going to go get pizza]". (The star before it is linguistics shorthand for "this isn't valid".)
This is why some languages, like Mandarin, are said to be tenseless. Mandarin is certainly capable of expressing whether an event happens in the past, present, or future. But this marking is not mandatory: it's entirely optional, like whether to include "…yesterday" or "…tomorrow" in English. So linguists say Mandarin has no (morphological) tenses at all.
1
In Ukrainian and Russian which have synthetic future verb forms, using them when speaking about future is not mandatory, too. Shall I consider that these two languages have no future tenses? ('You will play': Ukrainian зіграєш, гратимеш, Russian сыграешь - these verb forms have only future meaning, they cannot be used for other tenses or time planes).
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky I'm afraid I'm terrible at Russian; if they're not mandatory, is there a difference in meaning between using and not using them for a future event? What is it that they convey specifically?
– Draconis
5 hours ago
2
They convey nothing special except that they are 100% future. Usually when talking about future, they are used, but very often the present forms are used instead, and if there's an indication it's about future, like 'tomorrow' or 'next week', there's absolutely no difference, which form is used, future of present. My point is that "mandatory" is not the best criterion to tell if it is a tense or not. Present can be used when talking about the past: "Yesterday I'm entering the bar and I see Bill! He's sitting there drinking beer as if nothing has happened."
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky That's part of why I've always been hesitant about this particular analysis of English's future auxiliaries. The same thing happens in Romance languages; the inflectional future can occasionally have modal or evidential meanings (IT: "Sarà il postino" be.FUT.3SG the postman, "it must be the postman, I infer") and it's fine to refer to future events in the present if it's marked otherwise (FR: "On part en Asie l'année prochaine" we=leave.IND.PRES in Asia the year next, "we visit Asia next year")
– Eau qui dort
3 hours ago
This is a distinction I’ve never seen before, mandatory markedness being a requirement for something to be a tense. The reason given for why English is said to have only two tenses has always, in my experience, been that English has only two morphological tenses (i.e., temporal constructions which are expressed solely through morphology). Marking is much more nebulous, too: “I play a game yesterday” is fine as a narrative present, for example, so would English only have one tense by that definition?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
10 mins ago
add a comment |
Does English really have only two tenses.
It depends how you define "tense", but to most linguists, yes.
All languages can mark the time when an event occurs, to any degree of specificity you want. You can say "I played a game", or "I played a game yesterday", or "I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th", and so on.
Linguists generally only call it "tense" (sometimes "morphological tense", though that's not quite the same thing) when this marking is mandatory. For example, if I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th, then "I played a game yesterday" is perfectly correct (as of the time of writing), and "I played a game" is also fine. But that -ed is mandatory for past-tense verbs in English: that part can't be left off. As soon as I switch to "I play a game", the meaning has changed significantly.
And in English, the only mandatory morphological distinction is between past and non-past. It's conventional to use "will" to mark events happening in the future, but you can also have future meanings without it: how about "I'm going to play a game"? Or "after I play this game [I'm going to go get pizza]"? In both cases, the game-playing will happen in the future, but no "will" is required. The only thing that is required is using a non-past form, since the event is non-past: we can't say *"after I played this game [I'm going to go get pizza]". (The star before it is linguistics shorthand for "this isn't valid".)
This is why some languages, like Mandarin, are said to be tenseless. Mandarin is certainly capable of expressing whether an event happens in the past, present, or future. But this marking is not mandatory: it's entirely optional, like whether to include "…yesterday" or "…tomorrow" in English. So linguists say Mandarin has no (morphological) tenses at all.
1
In Ukrainian and Russian which have synthetic future verb forms, using them when speaking about future is not mandatory, too. Shall I consider that these two languages have no future tenses? ('You will play': Ukrainian зіграєш, гратимеш, Russian сыграешь - these verb forms have only future meaning, they cannot be used for other tenses or time planes).
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky I'm afraid I'm terrible at Russian; if they're not mandatory, is there a difference in meaning between using and not using them for a future event? What is it that they convey specifically?
– Draconis
5 hours ago
2
They convey nothing special except that they are 100% future. Usually when talking about future, they are used, but very often the present forms are used instead, and if there's an indication it's about future, like 'tomorrow' or 'next week', there's absolutely no difference, which form is used, future of present. My point is that "mandatory" is not the best criterion to tell if it is a tense or not. Present can be used when talking about the past: "Yesterday I'm entering the bar and I see Bill! He's sitting there drinking beer as if nothing has happened."
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky That's part of why I've always been hesitant about this particular analysis of English's future auxiliaries. The same thing happens in Romance languages; the inflectional future can occasionally have modal or evidential meanings (IT: "Sarà il postino" be.FUT.3SG the postman, "it must be the postman, I infer") and it's fine to refer to future events in the present if it's marked otherwise (FR: "On part en Asie l'année prochaine" we=leave.IND.PRES in Asia the year next, "we visit Asia next year")
– Eau qui dort
3 hours ago
This is a distinction I’ve never seen before, mandatory markedness being a requirement for something to be a tense. The reason given for why English is said to have only two tenses has always, in my experience, been that English has only two morphological tenses (i.e., temporal constructions which are expressed solely through morphology). Marking is much more nebulous, too: “I play a game yesterday” is fine as a narrative present, for example, so would English only have one tense by that definition?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
10 mins ago
add a comment |
Does English really have only two tenses.
It depends how you define "tense", but to most linguists, yes.
All languages can mark the time when an event occurs, to any degree of specificity you want. You can say "I played a game", or "I played a game yesterday", or "I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th", and so on.
Linguists generally only call it "tense" (sometimes "morphological tense", though that's not quite the same thing) when this marking is mandatory. For example, if I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th, then "I played a game yesterday" is perfectly correct (as of the time of writing), and "I played a game" is also fine. But that -ed is mandatory for past-tense verbs in English: that part can't be left off. As soon as I switch to "I play a game", the meaning has changed significantly.
And in English, the only mandatory morphological distinction is between past and non-past. It's conventional to use "will" to mark events happening in the future, but you can also have future meanings without it: how about "I'm going to play a game"? Or "after I play this game [I'm going to go get pizza]"? In both cases, the game-playing will happen in the future, but no "will" is required. The only thing that is required is using a non-past form, since the event is non-past: we can't say *"after I played this game [I'm going to go get pizza]". (The star before it is linguistics shorthand for "this isn't valid".)
This is why some languages, like Mandarin, are said to be tenseless. Mandarin is certainly capable of expressing whether an event happens in the past, present, or future. But this marking is not mandatory: it's entirely optional, like whether to include "…yesterday" or "…tomorrow" in English. So linguists say Mandarin has no (morphological) tenses at all.
Does English really have only two tenses.
It depends how you define "tense", but to most linguists, yes.
All languages can mark the time when an event occurs, to any degree of specificity you want. You can say "I played a game", or "I played a game yesterday", or "I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th", and so on.
Linguists generally only call it "tense" (sometimes "morphological tense", though that's not quite the same thing) when this marking is mandatory. For example, if I played a game at 11:35am on September 4th, then "I played a game yesterday" is perfectly correct (as of the time of writing), and "I played a game" is also fine. But that -ed is mandatory for past-tense verbs in English: that part can't be left off. As soon as I switch to "I play a game", the meaning has changed significantly.
And in English, the only mandatory morphological distinction is between past and non-past. It's conventional to use "will" to mark events happening in the future, but you can also have future meanings without it: how about "I'm going to play a game"? Or "after I play this game [I'm going to go get pizza]"? In both cases, the game-playing will happen in the future, but no "will" is required. The only thing that is required is using a non-past form, since the event is non-past: we can't say *"after I played this game [I'm going to go get pizza]". (The star before it is linguistics shorthand for "this isn't valid".)
This is why some languages, like Mandarin, are said to be tenseless. Mandarin is certainly capable of expressing whether an event happens in the past, present, or future. But this marking is not mandatory: it's entirely optional, like whether to include "…yesterday" or "…tomorrow" in English. So linguists say Mandarin has no (morphological) tenses at all.
answered 6 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
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1
In Ukrainian and Russian which have synthetic future verb forms, using them when speaking about future is not mandatory, too. Shall I consider that these two languages have no future tenses? ('You will play': Ukrainian зіграєш, гратимеш, Russian сыграешь - these verb forms have only future meaning, they cannot be used for other tenses or time planes).
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky I'm afraid I'm terrible at Russian; if they're not mandatory, is there a difference in meaning between using and not using them for a future event? What is it that they convey specifically?
– Draconis
5 hours ago
2
They convey nothing special except that they are 100% future. Usually when talking about future, they are used, but very often the present forms are used instead, and if there's an indication it's about future, like 'tomorrow' or 'next week', there's absolutely no difference, which form is used, future of present. My point is that "mandatory" is not the best criterion to tell if it is a tense or not. Present can be used when talking about the past: "Yesterday I'm entering the bar and I see Bill! He's sitting there drinking beer as if nothing has happened."
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky That's part of why I've always been hesitant about this particular analysis of English's future auxiliaries. The same thing happens in Romance languages; the inflectional future can occasionally have modal or evidential meanings (IT: "Sarà il postino" be.FUT.3SG the postman, "it must be the postman, I infer") and it's fine to refer to future events in the present if it's marked otherwise (FR: "On part en Asie l'année prochaine" we=leave.IND.PRES in Asia the year next, "we visit Asia next year")
– Eau qui dort
3 hours ago
This is a distinction I’ve never seen before, mandatory markedness being a requirement for something to be a tense. The reason given for why English is said to have only two tenses has always, in my experience, been that English has only two morphological tenses (i.e., temporal constructions which are expressed solely through morphology). Marking is much more nebulous, too: “I play a game yesterday” is fine as a narrative present, for example, so would English only have one tense by that definition?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
10 mins ago
add a comment |
1
In Ukrainian and Russian which have synthetic future verb forms, using them when speaking about future is not mandatory, too. Shall I consider that these two languages have no future tenses? ('You will play': Ukrainian зіграєш, гратимеш, Russian сыграешь - these verb forms have only future meaning, they cannot be used for other tenses or time planes).
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky I'm afraid I'm terrible at Russian; if they're not mandatory, is there a difference in meaning between using and not using them for a future event? What is it that they convey specifically?
– Draconis
5 hours ago
2
They convey nothing special except that they are 100% future. Usually when talking about future, they are used, but very often the present forms are used instead, and if there's an indication it's about future, like 'tomorrow' or 'next week', there's absolutely no difference, which form is used, future of present. My point is that "mandatory" is not the best criterion to tell if it is a tense or not. Present can be used when talking about the past: "Yesterday I'm entering the bar and I see Bill! He's sitting there drinking beer as if nothing has happened."
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
@YellowSky That's part of why I've always been hesitant about this particular analysis of English's future auxiliaries. The same thing happens in Romance languages; the inflectional future can occasionally have modal or evidential meanings (IT: "Sarà il postino" be.FUT.3SG the postman, "it must be the postman, I infer") and it's fine to refer to future events in the present if it's marked otherwise (FR: "On part en Asie l'année prochaine" we=leave.IND.PRES in Asia the year next, "we visit Asia next year")
– Eau qui dort
3 hours ago
This is a distinction I’ve never seen before, mandatory markedness being a requirement for something to be a tense. The reason given for why English is said to have only two tenses has always, in my experience, been that English has only two morphological tenses (i.e., temporal constructions which are expressed solely through morphology). Marking is much more nebulous, too: “I play a game yesterday” is fine as a narrative present, for example, so would English only have one tense by that definition?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
10 mins ago
1
1
In Ukrainian and Russian which have synthetic future verb forms, using them when speaking about future is not mandatory, too. Shall I consider that these two languages have no future tenses? ('You will play': Ukrainian зіграєш, гратимеш, Russian сыграешь - these verb forms have only future meaning, they cannot be used for other tenses or time planes).
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
In Ukrainian and Russian which have synthetic future verb forms, using them when speaking about future is not mandatory, too. Shall I consider that these two languages have no future tenses? ('You will play': Ukrainian зіграєш, гратимеш, Russian сыграешь - these verb forms have only future meaning, they cannot be used for other tenses or time planes).
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
1
@YellowSky I'm afraid I'm terrible at Russian; if they're not mandatory, is there a difference in meaning between using and not using them for a future event? What is it that they convey specifically?
– Draconis
5 hours ago
@YellowSky I'm afraid I'm terrible at Russian; if they're not mandatory, is there a difference in meaning between using and not using them for a future event? What is it that they convey specifically?
– Draconis
5 hours ago
2
2
They convey nothing special except that they are 100% future. Usually when talking about future, they are used, but very often the present forms are used instead, and if there's an indication it's about future, like 'tomorrow' or 'next week', there's absolutely no difference, which form is used, future of present. My point is that "mandatory" is not the best criterion to tell if it is a tense or not. Present can be used when talking about the past: "Yesterday I'm entering the bar and I see Bill! He's sitting there drinking beer as if nothing has happened."
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
They convey nothing special except that they are 100% future. Usually when talking about future, they are used, but very often the present forms are used instead, and if there's an indication it's about future, like 'tomorrow' or 'next week', there's absolutely no difference, which form is used, future of present. My point is that "mandatory" is not the best criterion to tell if it is a tense or not. Present can be used when talking about the past: "Yesterday I'm entering the bar and I see Bill! He's sitting there drinking beer as if nothing has happened."
– Yellow Sky
5 hours ago
1
1
@YellowSky That's part of why I've always been hesitant about this particular analysis of English's future auxiliaries. The same thing happens in Romance languages; the inflectional future can occasionally have modal or evidential meanings (IT: "Sarà il postino" be.FUT.3SG the postman, "it must be the postman, I infer") and it's fine to refer to future events in the present if it's marked otherwise (FR: "On part en Asie l'année prochaine" we=leave.IND.PRES in Asia the year next, "we visit Asia next year")
– Eau qui dort
3 hours ago
@YellowSky That's part of why I've always been hesitant about this particular analysis of English's future auxiliaries. The same thing happens in Romance languages; the inflectional future can occasionally have modal or evidential meanings (IT: "Sarà il postino" be.FUT.3SG the postman, "it must be the postman, I infer") and it's fine to refer to future events in the present if it's marked otherwise (FR: "On part en Asie l'année prochaine" we=leave.IND.PRES in Asia the year next, "we visit Asia next year")
– Eau qui dort
3 hours ago
This is a distinction I’ve never seen before, mandatory markedness being a requirement for something to be a tense. The reason given for why English is said to have only two tenses has always, in my experience, been that English has only two morphological tenses (i.e., temporal constructions which are expressed solely through morphology). Marking is much more nebulous, too: “I play a game yesterday” is fine as a narrative present, for example, so would English only have one tense by that definition?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
10 mins ago
This is a distinction I’ve never seen before, mandatory markedness being a requirement for something to be a tense. The reason given for why English is said to have only two tenses has always, in my experience, been that English has only two morphological tenses (i.e., temporal constructions which are expressed solely through morphology). Marking is much more nebulous, too: “I play a game yesterday” is fine as a narrative present, for example, so would English only have one tense by that definition?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
10 mins ago
add a comment |
There is an argument for distinguishing morphological tenses from periphrastic tenses. The English verb “to be” has five morphological tenses:
present: I am
past: I was
present subjunctive: (if) I be
past subjunctive: (if) I were
imperative: be!
Periphrastic tenses combine a form of the verb with a battery of auxiliaries, giving:
present continuous: I am working
past continuous: I was working
future: I shall/will work
future continuous: I shall/will be working
and a lot more.
Your question is basically whether “tense” is a morphological category or a syntactic category. Both positions have their supporters, but the former is neater.
It is only now when the future tense deteriorated to the mere one auxiliary 'will' that it lost its look as a true tense, but quite recently, like 50 years ago, it used to have the 1st.p. vs. non-1st.p. distinction, shall vs. will suppletive auxiliaries, and this feature distinguished it from both 'shall' and 'will' as modal verbs which have just one single form for all the persons and numbers. We can speak about the on-going restructuring of the future tense, but definitely not about its absence as such.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
Please don't confuse matters further by calling modal and aspect forms tenses.
– curiousdannii
38 mins ago
add a comment |
There is an argument for distinguishing morphological tenses from periphrastic tenses. The English verb “to be” has five morphological tenses:
present: I am
past: I was
present subjunctive: (if) I be
past subjunctive: (if) I were
imperative: be!
Periphrastic tenses combine a form of the verb with a battery of auxiliaries, giving:
present continuous: I am working
past continuous: I was working
future: I shall/will work
future continuous: I shall/will be working
and a lot more.
Your question is basically whether “tense” is a morphological category or a syntactic category. Both positions have their supporters, but the former is neater.
It is only now when the future tense deteriorated to the mere one auxiliary 'will' that it lost its look as a true tense, but quite recently, like 50 years ago, it used to have the 1st.p. vs. non-1st.p. distinction, shall vs. will suppletive auxiliaries, and this feature distinguished it from both 'shall' and 'will' as modal verbs which have just one single form for all the persons and numbers. We can speak about the on-going restructuring of the future tense, but definitely not about its absence as such.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
Please don't confuse matters further by calling modal and aspect forms tenses.
– curiousdannii
38 mins ago
add a comment |
There is an argument for distinguishing morphological tenses from periphrastic tenses. The English verb “to be” has five morphological tenses:
present: I am
past: I was
present subjunctive: (if) I be
past subjunctive: (if) I were
imperative: be!
Periphrastic tenses combine a form of the verb with a battery of auxiliaries, giving:
present continuous: I am working
past continuous: I was working
future: I shall/will work
future continuous: I shall/will be working
and a lot more.
Your question is basically whether “tense” is a morphological category or a syntactic category. Both positions have their supporters, but the former is neater.
There is an argument for distinguishing morphological tenses from periphrastic tenses. The English verb “to be” has five morphological tenses:
present: I am
past: I was
present subjunctive: (if) I be
past subjunctive: (if) I were
imperative: be!
Periphrastic tenses combine a form of the verb with a battery of auxiliaries, giving:
present continuous: I am working
past continuous: I was working
future: I shall/will work
future continuous: I shall/will be working
and a lot more.
Your question is basically whether “tense” is a morphological category or a syntactic category. Both positions have their supporters, but the former is neater.
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
fdbfdb
17.3k1 gold badge22 silver badges46 bronze badges
17.3k1 gold badge22 silver badges46 bronze badges
It is only now when the future tense deteriorated to the mere one auxiliary 'will' that it lost its look as a true tense, but quite recently, like 50 years ago, it used to have the 1st.p. vs. non-1st.p. distinction, shall vs. will suppletive auxiliaries, and this feature distinguished it from both 'shall' and 'will' as modal verbs which have just one single form for all the persons and numbers. We can speak about the on-going restructuring of the future tense, but definitely not about its absence as such.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
Please don't confuse matters further by calling modal and aspect forms tenses.
– curiousdannii
38 mins ago
add a comment |
It is only now when the future tense deteriorated to the mere one auxiliary 'will' that it lost its look as a true tense, but quite recently, like 50 years ago, it used to have the 1st.p. vs. non-1st.p. distinction, shall vs. will suppletive auxiliaries, and this feature distinguished it from both 'shall' and 'will' as modal verbs which have just one single form for all the persons and numbers. We can speak about the on-going restructuring of the future tense, but definitely not about its absence as such.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
Please don't confuse matters further by calling modal and aspect forms tenses.
– curiousdannii
38 mins ago
It is only now when the future tense deteriorated to the mere one auxiliary 'will' that it lost its look as a true tense, but quite recently, like 50 years ago, it used to have the 1st.p. vs. non-1st.p. distinction, shall vs. will suppletive auxiliaries, and this feature distinguished it from both 'shall' and 'will' as modal verbs which have just one single form for all the persons and numbers. We can speak about the on-going restructuring of the future tense, but definitely not about its absence as such.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
It is only now when the future tense deteriorated to the mere one auxiliary 'will' that it lost its look as a true tense, but quite recently, like 50 years ago, it used to have the 1st.p. vs. non-1st.p. distinction, shall vs. will suppletive auxiliaries, and this feature distinguished it from both 'shall' and 'will' as modal verbs which have just one single form for all the persons and numbers. We can speak about the on-going restructuring of the future tense, but definitely not about its absence as such.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
Please don't confuse matters further by calling modal and aspect forms tenses.
– curiousdannii
38 mins ago
Please don't confuse matters further by calling modal and aspect forms tenses.
– curiousdannii
38 mins ago
add a comment |
It depends on what you mean by "tense". One thing that goes into making a "tense" is time reference, so the English future qualifies on that basis. The other thing, though, is "grammaticalization", such as affixing a certain morpheme to verbs to form the particular verb form. Compare how past, present and future are constructed in Swahili, Assamese, or Lushootseed where you add certain affixes. If your understanding of "tense" is that it's about verb form, then English doesn't have a future tense. But we can still convey future time reference by adding something in the neighborhood of the verb (an auxiliary like "shall", "will", "may", subordination like "going to" or "intend to", or "about to").
In Swahili, tenses are marked with prefixes on the verb, preceded by the subject personal prefix. For the future tense, the prefix is -ta-, e.g. nitapiga 'I will beat': ni-ta-pig-a – 1st.p.sg-future-beat-ind.mood. If you wrote it as *ni ta piga, you'd have it exactly word-for-word as the English "I will beat", or, vice versa, if in English we wrote it as '*iwillbeat', we'd have it as a verb with 2 prefixes, exactly like in Swahili.
– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago
It's not about spelling, it's about whether you have different verb forms. nitakupigia is one word, a verb form, translatable into English as 5 words.
– user6726
6 hours ago
Anyhow, -ta- is a prefix, not suffix.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on what you mean by "tense". One thing that goes into making a "tense" is time reference, so the English future qualifies on that basis. The other thing, though, is "grammaticalization", such as affixing a certain morpheme to verbs to form the particular verb form. Compare how past, present and future are constructed in Swahili, Assamese, or Lushootseed where you add certain affixes. If your understanding of "tense" is that it's about verb form, then English doesn't have a future tense. But we can still convey future time reference by adding something in the neighborhood of the verb (an auxiliary like "shall", "will", "may", subordination like "going to" or "intend to", or "about to").
In Swahili, tenses are marked with prefixes on the verb, preceded by the subject personal prefix. For the future tense, the prefix is -ta-, e.g. nitapiga 'I will beat': ni-ta-pig-a – 1st.p.sg-future-beat-ind.mood. If you wrote it as *ni ta piga, you'd have it exactly word-for-word as the English "I will beat", or, vice versa, if in English we wrote it as '*iwillbeat', we'd have it as a verb with 2 prefixes, exactly like in Swahili.
– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago
It's not about spelling, it's about whether you have different verb forms. nitakupigia is one word, a verb form, translatable into English as 5 words.
– user6726
6 hours ago
Anyhow, -ta- is a prefix, not suffix.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on what you mean by "tense". One thing that goes into making a "tense" is time reference, so the English future qualifies on that basis. The other thing, though, is "grammaticalization", such as affixing a certain morpheme to verbs to form the particular verb form. Compare how past, present and future are constructed in Swahili, Assamese, or Lushootseed where you add certain affixes. If your understanding of "tense" is that it's about verb form, then English doesn't have a future tense. But we can still convey future time reference by adding something in the neighborhood of the verb (an auxiliary like "shall", "will", "may", subordination like "going to" or "intend to", or "about to").
It depends on what you mean by "tense". One thing that goes into making a "tense" is time reference, so the English future qualifies on that basis. The other thing, though, is "grammaticalization", such as affixing a certain morpheme to verbs to form the particular verb form. Compare how past, present and future are constructed in Swahili, Assamese, or Lushootseed where you add certain affixes. If your understanding of "tense" is that it's about verb form, then English doesn't have a future tense. But we can still convey future time reference by adding something in the neighborhood of the verb (an auxiliary like "shall", "will", "may", subordination like "going to" or "intend to", or "about to").
edited 6 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
user6726user6726
38.1k1 gold badge26 silver badges75 bronze badges
38.1k1 gold badge26 silver badges75 bronze badges
In Swahili, tenses are marked with prefixes on the verb, preceded by the subject personal prefix. For the future tense, the prefix is -ta-, e.g. nitapiga 'I will beat': ni-ta-pig-a – 1st.p.sg-future-beat-ind.mood. If you wrote it as *ni ta piga, you'd have it exactly word-for-word as the English "I will beat", or, vice versa, if in English we wrote it as '*iwillbeat', we'd have it as a verb with 2 prefixes, exactly like in Swahili.
– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago
It's not about spelling, it's about whether you have different verb forms. nitakupigia is one word, a verb form, translatable into English as 5 words.
– user6726
6 hours ago
Anyhow, -ta- is a prefix, not suffix.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
add a comment |
In Swahili, tenses are marked with prefixes on the verb, preceded by the subject personal prefix. For the future tense, the prefix is -ta-, e.g. nitapiga 'I will beat': ni-ta-pig-a – 1st.p.sg-future-beat-ind.mood. If you wrote it as *ni ta piga, you'd have it exactly word-for-word as the English "I will beat", or, vice versa, if in English we wrote it as '*iwillbeat', we'd have it as a verb with 2 prefixes, exactly like in Swahili.
– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago
It's not about spelling, it's about whether you have different verb forms. nitakupigia is one word, a verb form, translatable into English as 5 words.
– user6726
6 hours ago
Anyhow, -ta- is a prefix, not suffix.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
In Swahili, tenses are marked with prefixes on the verb, preceded by the subject personal prefix. For the future tense, the prefix is -ta-, e.g. nitapiga 'I will beat': ni-ta-pig-a – 1st.p.sg-future-beat-ind.mood. If you wrote it as *ni ta piga, you'd have it exactly word-for-word as the English "I will beat", or, vice versa, if in English we wrote it as '*iwillbeat', we'd have it as a verb with 2 prefixes, exactly like in Swahili.
– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago
In Swahili, tenses are marked with prefixes on the verb, preceded by the subject personal prefix. For the future tense, the prefix is -ta-, e.g. nitapiga 'I will beat': ni-ta-pig-a – 1st.p.sg-future-beat-ind.mood. If you wrote it as *ni ta piga, you'd have it exactly word-for-word as the English "I will beat", or, vice versa, if in English we wrote it as '*iwillbeat', we'd have it as a verb with 2 prefixes, exactly like in Swahili.
– Yellow Sky
7 hours ago
It's not about spelling, it's about whether you have different verb forms. nitakupigia is one word, a verb form, translatable into English as 5 words.
– user6726
6 hours ago
It's not about spelling, it's about whether you have different verb forms. nitakupigia is one word, a verb form, translatable into English as 5 words.
– user6726
6 hours ago
Anyhow, -ta- is a prefix, not suffix.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
Anyhow, -ta- is a prefix, not suffix.
– Yellow Sky
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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1
You have a problem to call using a help verb (will) to express future, a real future tense?
– Joop Eggen
8 hours ago
2
The question is where to stop. If you allow will to be called the future tense, what will you call must, for instance? Or be going to? And what about used to as a past tense? One could go on indefinitely. The dispute is over the change that English made from being an inflected language like German or Latin that uses endings to being an analytic language that uses auxiliaries, articles, complementizers, prepositions, and other little particles in constructions to do the same work as inflection. You can call it what you want, but the linguists' way is the most consistent.
– jlawler
8 hours ago