Can the Spell Alter Self allow a Kenku to Speak Normally?Is Alter Self strictly better than Disguise Self as at-will invocations?Can Disguise Self be use to change the appearance of your race or sex?What's the difference between Realistic Likeness and Disguise Self?Why can I change my height with Alter Self but not my size?What spell can disguise a PC as a particular Yuan-ti?Can one use Alter Self to assume the form of a Skeleton?Can the Alter Self spell simulate bioluminescence?How does a Doppelganger monster's Shapechanger trait differ from the Changeling playable race's Change Appearance trait?Is this homebrew 'Outsider' race balanced?Can the Alter Self spell grant you a tail or otherwise stop partway through a transformation into another race?
Is every sentence we write or utter either true or false?
Why do the Brexit opposition parties not want a new election?
Laptop failure due to constant fluctuation of AC frequency and voltage
Why are some hotels asking you to book through Booking.com instead of matching the price at the front desk?
Gapping comma in a list
How to best explain that you are taking pictures in a space for practice reasons?
Are fast interviews red flags?
Poor management handling of recent sickness and how to approach my return?
Project Euler Problem 45
Leaving the USA
Infinitely many primes
Is it right to use the ideas of non-winning designers in a design contest?
Get a MPS file using NEOS/GAMS web interface
Bit floating sequence
Filling attribute tables with values from the same attribute table
At what point does a land become controlled?
What is the purpose of the rotating plate in front of the lock?
Contractor cut joist hangers to make them fit
I won a car in a poker game. How is that taxed in Canada?
Template default argument loses its reference type
Can taking my 1-week-old on a 6-7 hours journey in the car lead to medical complications?
Word for something that used to be popular but not anymore
Why did Boris Johnson call for new elections?
Short story: Interstellar inspector senses "off" nature of planet hiding aggressive culture
Can the Spell Alter Self allow a Kenku to Speak Normally?
Is Alter Self strictly better than Disguise Self as at-will invocations?Can Disguise Self be use to change the appearance of your race or sex?What's the difference between Realistic Likeness and Disguise Self?Why can I change my height with Alter Self but not my size?What spell can disguise a PC as a particular Yuan-ti?Can one use Alter Self to assume the form of a Skeleton?Can the Alter Self spell simulate bioluminescence?How does a Doppelganger monster's Shapechanger trait differ from the Changeling playable race's Change Appearance trait?Is this homebrew 'Outsider' race balanced?Can the Alter Self spell grant you a tail or otherwise stop partway through a transformation into another race?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
The Alter Self spell says:
Change Appearance. You transform your appearance. You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics, if any.
(emphasis mine)
Would changing the sound of your voice allow a Kenku caster to defy its racial curse for that hour?
dnd-5e spells kenku
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The Alter Self spell says:
Change Appearance. You transform your appearance. You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics, if any.
(emphasis mine)
Would changing the sound of your voice allow a Kenku caster to defy its racial curse for that hour?
dnd-5e spells kenku
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You are referring to a Kenku that has had their vocal chords removed? Or are you under the impression that Kenku don't have vocal chords?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer I think his real question is, can a Kenku defy its racial curse and speak like other races do with the use of Alter Self...
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer He's referring to the fact that Kenku are only able to speak via mimicry of sounds or speech that they have heard in the past. See here: dndbeyond.com/races/kenku#HopelessPlagiarists
$endgroup$
– guildsbounty
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Apologies, it is about the racial curse, I've edited the question to reflect that.
$endgroup$
– RallozarX
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you the DM or the player?
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The Alter Self spell says:
Change Appearance. You transform your appearance. You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics, if any.
(emphasis mine)
Would changing the sound of your voice allow a Kenku caster to defy its racial curse for that hour?
dnd-5e spells kenku
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
$endgroup$
The Alter Self spell says:
Change Appearance. You transform your appearance. You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics, if any.
(emphasis mine)
Would changing the sound of your voice allow a Kenku caster to defy its racial curse for that hour?
dnd-5e spells kenku
dnd-5e spells kenku
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
RallozarX
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
RallozarXRallozarX
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
9181 silver badge16 bronze badges
$begingroup$
You are referring to a Kenku that has had their vocal chords removed? Or are you under the impression that Kenku don't have vocal chords?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer I think his real question is, can a Kenku defy its racial curse and speak like other races do with the use of Alter Self...
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer He's referring to the fact that Kenku are only able to speak via mimicry of sounds or speech that they have heard in the past. See here: dndbeyond.com/races/kenku#HopelessPlagiarists
$endgroup$
– guildsbounty
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Apologies, it is about the racial curse, I've edited the question to reflect that.
$endgroup$
– RallozarX
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you the DM or the player?
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
You are referring to a Kenku that has had their vocal chords removed? Or are you under the impression that Kenku don't have vocal chords?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer I think his real question is, can a Kenku defy its racial curse and speak like other races do with the use of Alter Self...
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer He's referring to the fact that Kenku are only able to speak via mimicry of sounds or speech that they have heard in the past. See here: dndbeyond.com/races/kenku#HopelessPlagiarists
$endgroup$
– guildsbounty
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Apologies, it is about the racial curse, I've edited the question to reflect that.
$endgroup$
– RallozarX
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you the DM or the player?
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You are referring to a Kenku that has had their vocal chords removed? Or are you under the impression that Kenku don't have vocal chords?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You are referring to a Kenku that has had their vocal chords removed? Or are you under the impression that Kenku don't have vocal chords?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer I think his real question is, can a Kenku defy its racial curse and speak like other races do with the use of Alter Self...
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer I think his real question is, can a Kenku defy its racial curse and speak like other races do with the use of Alter Self...
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer He's referring to the fact that Kenku are only able to speak via mimicry of sounds or speech that they have heard in the past. See here: dndbeyond.com/races/kenku#HopelessPlagiarists
$endgroup$
– guildsbounty
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer He's referring to the fact that Kenku are only able to speak via mimicry of sounds or speech that they have heard in the past. See here: dndbeyond.com/races/kenku#HopelessPlagiarists
$endgroup$
– guildsbounty
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Apologies, it is about the racial curse, I've edited the question to reflect that.
$endgroup$
– RallozarX
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Apologies, it is about the racial curse, I've edited the question to reflect that.
$endgroup$
– RallozarX
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you the DM or the player?
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you the DM or the player?
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
No
In fact, that clause of alter self does absolutely nothing for a Kenku, as they can already alter the sound of their voice with their Mimicry trait, unless a GM rules discerning imitations made via alter self (which has no particular rules) functions differently than discerning imitations made via Mimicry.
Furthermore, even if you had the freedom to change more than just the sound of your voice, you still couldn't use this to bypass your curse because the rules for the Kenku race's languages trait say you can speak only by using mimicry and alter self specifies none of the changes can alter any of your statistics, of which said restriction is a part.
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I think this is wrong, since it misses the point that Kenkus, in fact, do not even have a voice to begin with.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 The kenku's 'languages' trait indicates that, contrary to their fluff, kenku totally speak (they can only speak via their mimicry trait, which unambiguously qualifies using the mimicry trait as speaking). If you mean to draw a distinction between being able to speak and having a personal voice, that's fine, but kind of irrelevant to the question-- why get into subjective setting cosmology details that will surely vary between campaigns when there is a clear unambiguous explicit answer?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The language trait is there only for the character to be able to determine which language they can read and write. I'll agree that the rest is fuzzy, which is why I focus on the last part of the racial curse: "Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.". I think this sentence is key to answering this question and trying to argue that point to be futile. For once, the wording (the keyword voice) is unequivocal.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 While it's unclear what is meant by "took away their voices", the kenku absolutely produce sounds from their mouths. Functionally speaking, that is their "voice". It's just that it's not specific to them, but a mimicry of what they've heard.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is the part that is entirely subjective. I personally agree that it can be interpretated both ways ... but I do stop the logical leaps to the one key sentence about them not having a voice of their own. But still, I think I'll add an addendum to my answer on that one.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There is a difference between "having a voice" and "the sound of a voice" ... since the spell does not mention anything about the ability to communicate and/or speak languages, then alter self would not in any way free a Kenku from its racial curse.
From the description of the curse:
Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.
They do not have a voice. You can't change the sound of something that does not exist.
Addendum: We're having debates in the comments about Kenkus having a voice or not, since it is kind of possible to go both ways, subjectively speaking.
I personally chose to focus on "the kenkus have had their voices removed, so they technically do not have a voice".
Others prefer to think they still have a voice, since they can mimick sounds they heard, including other beings' voices.
So in the context of that question which is about changing the sound of one's voice (alter self is the name of the spell after all) I see an additional argument to support my answer/interpretation:
- If you can only mimick sounds made by others and are unable to produce new sounds, by yourself, how would you be able to change the sounds of your mimicks ?
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given the wording, I would say that they function like audio recorders, producing only what sounds they have heard, as they heard them. So while they dont have voices, they can "speak" by producing the words they have heard in the voices they heard. (which would be awkward if they have only heard short sentences from each individual)
$endgroup$
– Journer
41 mins ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f154834%2fcan-the-spell-alter-self-allow-a-kenku-to-speak-normally%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
No
In fact, that clause of alter self does absolutely nothing for a Kenku, as they can already alter the sound of their voice with their Mimicry trait, unless a GM rules discerning imitations made via alter self (which has no particular rules) functions differently than discerning imitations made via Mimicry.
Furthermore, even if you had the freedom to change more than just the sound of your voice, you still couldn't use this to bypass your curse because the rules for the Kenku race's languages trait say you can speak only by using mimicry and alter self specifies none of the changes can alter any of your statistics, of which said restriction is a part.
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I think this is wrong, since it misses the point that Kenkus, in fact, do not even have a voice to begin with.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 The kenku's 'languages' trait indicates that, contrary to their fluff, kenku totally speak (they can only speak via their mimicry trait, which unambiguously qualifies using the mimicry trait as speaking). If you mean to draw a distinction between being able to speak and having a personal voice, that's fine, but kind of irrelevant to the question-- why get into subjective setting cosmology details that will surely vary between campaigns when there is a clear unambiguous explicit answer?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The language trait is there only for the character to be able to determine which language they can read and write. I'll agree that the rest is fuzzy, which is why I focus on the last part of the racial curse: "Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.". I think this sentence is key to answering this question and trying to argue that point to be futile. For once, the wording (the keyword voice) is unequivocal.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 While it's unclear what is meant by "took away their voices", the kenku absolutely produce sounds from their mouths. Functionally speaking, that is their "voice". It's just that it's not specific to them, but a mimicry of what they've heard.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is the part that is entirely subjective. I personally agree that it can be interpretated both ways ... but I do stop the logical leaps to the one key sentence about them not having a voice of their own. But still, I think I'll add an addendum to my answer on that one.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
In fact, that clause of alter self does absolutely nothing for a Kenku, as they can already alter the sound of their voice with their Mimicry trait, unless a GM rules discerning imitations made via alter self (which has no particular rules) functions differently than discerning imitations made via Mimicry.
Furthermore, even if you had the freedom to change more than just the sound of your voice, you still couldn't use this to bypass your curse because the rules for the Kenku race's languages trait say you can speak only by using mimicry and alter self specifies none of the changes can alter any of your statistics, of which said restriction is a part.
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I think this is wrong, since it misses the point that Kenkus, in fact, do not even have a voice to begin with.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 The kenku's 'languages' trait indicates that, contrary to their fluff, kenku totally speak (they can only speak via their mimicry trait, which unambiguously qualifies using the mimicry trait as speaking). If you mean to draw a distinction between being able to speak and having a personal voice, that's fine, but kind of irrelevant to the question-- why get into subjective setting cosmology details that will surely vary between campaigns when there is a clear unambiguous explicit answer?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The language trait is there only for the character to be able to determine which language they can read and write. I'll agree that the rest is fuzzy, which is why I focus on the last part of the racial curse: "Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.". I think this sentence is key to answering this question and trying to argue that point to be futile. For once, the wording (the keyword voice) is unequivocal.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 While it's unclear what is meant by "took away their voices", the kenku absolutely produce sounds from their mouths. Functionally speaking, that is their "voice". It's just that it's not specific to them, but a mimicry of what they've heard.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is the part that is entirely subjective. I personally agree that it can be interpretated both ways ... but I do stop the logical leaps to the one key sentence about them not having a voice of their own. But still, I think I'll add an addendum to my answer on that one.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
In fact, that clause of alter self does absolutely nothing for a Kenku, as they can already alter the sound of their voice with their Mimicry trait, unless a GM rules discerning imitations made via alter self (which has no particular rules) functions differently than discerning imitations made via Mimicry.
Furthermore, even if you had the freedom to change more than just the sound of your voice, you still couldn't use this to bypass your curse because the rules for the Kenku race's languages trait say you can speak only by using mimicry and alter self specifies none of the changes can alter any of your statistics, of which said restriction is a part.
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
$endgroup$
No
In fact, that clause of alter self does absolutely nothing for a Kenku, as they can already alter the sound of their voice with their Mimicry trait, unless a GM rules discerning imitations made via alter self (which has no particular rules) functions differently than discerning imitations made via Mimicry.
Furthermore, even if you had the freedom to change more than just the sound of your voice, you still couldn't use this to bypass your curse because the rules for the Kenku race's languages trait say you can speak only by using mimicry and alter self specifies none of the changes can alter any of your statistics, of which said restriction is a part.
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
the dark wandererthe dark wanderer
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
41.8k7 gold badges108 silver badges218 bronze badges
$begingroup$
I think this is wrong, since it misses the point that Kenkus, in fact, do not even have a voice to begin with.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 The kenku's 'languages' trait indicates that, contrary to their fluff, kenku totally speak (they can only speak via their mimicry trait, which unambiguously qualifies using the mimicry trait as speaking). If you mean to draw a distinction between being able to speak and having a personal voice, that's fine, but kind of irrelevant to the question-- why get into subjective setting cosmology details that will surely vary between campaigns when there is a clear unambiguous explicit answer?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The language trait is there only for the character to be able to determine which language they can read and write. I'll agree that the rest is fuzzy, which is why I focus on the last part of the racial curse: "Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.". I think this sentence is key to answering this question and trying to argue that point to be futile. For once, the wording (the keyword voice) is unequivocal.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 While it's unclear what is meant by "took away their voices", the kenku absolutely produce sounds from their mouths. Functionally speaking, that is their "voice". It's just that it's not specific to them, but a mimicry of what they've heard.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is the part that is entirely subjective. I personally agree that it can be interpretated both ways ... but I do stop the logical leaps to the one key sentence about them not having a voice of their own. But still, I think I'll add an addendum to my answer on that one.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think this is wrong, since it misses the point that Kenkus, in fact, do not even have a voice to begin with.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 The kenku's 'languages' trait indicates that, contrary to their fluff, kenku totally speak (they can only speak via their mimicry trait, which unambiguously qualifies using the mimicry trait as speaking). If you mean to draw a distinction between being able to speak and having a personal voice, that's fine, but kind of irrelevant to the question-- why get into subjective setting cosmology details that will surely vary between campaigns when there is a clear unambiguous explicit answer?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The language trait is there only for the character to be able to determine which language they can read and write. I'll agree that the rest is fuzzy, which is why I focus on the last part of the racial curse: "Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.". I think this sentence is key to answering this question and trying to argue that point to be futile. For once, the wording (the keyword voice) is unequivocal.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 While it's unclear what is meant by "took away their voices", the kenku absolutely produce sounds from their mouths. Functionally speaking, that is their "voice". It's just that it's not specific to them, but a mimicry of what they've heard.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is the part that is entirely subjective. I personally agree that it can be interpretated both ways ... but I do stop the logical leaps to the one key sentence about them not having a voice of their own. But still, I think I'll add an addendum to my answer on that one.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think this is wrong, since it misses the point that Kenkus, in fact, do not even have a voice to begin with.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think this is wrong, since it misses the point that Kenkus, in fact, do not even have a voice to begin with.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 The kenku's 'languages' trait indicates that, contrary to their fluff, kenku totally speak (they can only speak via their mimicry trait, which unambiguously qualifies using the mimicry trait as speaking). If you mean to draw a distinction between being able to speak and having a personal voice, that's fine, but kind of irrelevant to the question-- why get into subjective setting cosmology details that will surely vary between campaigns when there is a clear unambiguous explicit answer?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Catar4 The kenku's 'languages' trait indicates that, contrary to their fluff, kenku totally speak (they can only speak via their mimicry trait, which unambiguously qualifies using the mimicry trait as speaking). If you mean to draw a distinction between being able to speak and having a personal voice, that's fine, but kind of irrelevant to the question-- why get into subjective setting cosmology details that will surely vary between campaigns when there is a clear unambiguous explicit answer?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The language trait is there only for the character to be able to determine which language they can read and write. I'll agree that the rest is fuzzy, which is why I focus on the last part of the racial curse: "Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.". I think this sentence is key to answering this question and trying to argue that point to be futile. For once, the wording (the keyword voice) is unequivocal.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The language trait is there only for the character to be able to determine which language they can read and write. I'll agree that the rest is fuzzy, which is why I focus on the last part of the racial curse: "Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.". I think this sentence is key to answering this question and trying to argue that point to be futile. For once, the wording (the keyword voice) is unequivocal.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Catar4 While it's unclear what is meant by "took away their voices", the kenku absolutely produce sounds from their mouths. Functionally speaking, that is their "voice". It's just that it's not specific to them, but a mimicry of what they've heard.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Catar4 While it's unclear what is meant by "took away their voices", the kenku absolutely produce sounds from their mouths. Functionally speaking, that is their "voice". It's just that it's not specific to them, but a mimicry of what they've heard.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is the part that is entirely subjective. I personally agree that it can be interpretated both ways ... but I do stop the logical leaps to the one key sentence about them not having a voice of their own. But still, I think I'll add an addendum to my answer on that one.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is the part that is entirely subjective. I personally agree that it can be interpretated both ways ... but I do stop the logical leaps to the one key sentence about them not having a voice of their own. But still, I think I'll add an addendum to my answer on that one.
$endgroup$
– Catar4
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There is a difference between "having a voice" and "the sound of a voice" ... since the spell does not mention anything about the ability to communicate and/or speak languages, then alter self would not in any way free a Kenku from its racial curse.
From the description of the curse:
Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.
They do not have a voice. You can't change the sound of something that does not exist.
Addendum: We're having debates in the comments about Kenkus having a voice or not, since it is kind of possible to go both ways, subjectively speaking.
I personally chose to focus on "the kenkus have had their voices removed, so they technically do not have a voice".
Others prefer to think they still have a voice, since they can mimick sounds they heard, including other beings' voices.
So in the context of that question which is about changing the sound of one's voice (alter self is the name of the spell after all) I see an additional argument to support my answer/interpretation:
- If you can only mimick sounds made by others and are unable to produce new sounds, by yourself, how would you be able to change the sounds of your mimicks ?
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given the wording, I would say that they function like audio recorders, producing only what sounds they have heard, as they heard them. So while they dont have voices, they can "speak" by producing the words they have heard in the voices they heard. (which would be awkward if they have only heard short sentences from each individual)
$endgroup$
– Journer
41 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There is a difference between "having a voice" and "the sound of a voice" ... since the spell does not mention anything about the ability to communicate and/or speak languages, then alter self would not in any way free a Kenku from its racial curse.
From the description of the curse:
Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.
They do not have a voice. You can't change the sound of something that does not exist.
Addendum: We're having debates in the comments about Kenkus having a voice or not, since it is kind of possible to go both ways, subjectively speaking.
I personally chose to focus on "the kenkus have had their voices removed, so they technically do not have a voice".
Others prefer to think they still have a voice, since they can mimick sounds they heard, including other beings' voices.
So in the context of that question which is about changing the sound of one's voice (alter self is the name of the spell after all) I see an additional argument to support my answer/interpretation:
- If you can only mimick sounds made by others and are unable to produce new sounds, by yourself, how would you be able to change the sounds of your mimicks ?
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given the wording, I would say that they function like audio recorders, producing only what sounds they have heard, as they heard them. So while they dont have voices, they can "speak" by producing the words they have heard in the voices they heard. (which would be awkward if they have only heard short sentences from each individual)
$endgroup$
– Journer
41 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There is a difference between "having a voice" and "the sound of a voice" ... since the spell does not mention anything about the ability to communicate and/or speak languages, then alter self would not in any way free a Kenku from its racial curse.
From the description of the curse:
Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.
They do not have a voice. You can't change the sound of something that does not exist.
Addendum: We're having debates in the comments about Kenkus having a voice or not, since it is kind of possible to go both ways, subjectively speaking.
I personally chose to focus on "the kenkus have had their voices removed, so they technically do not have a voice".
Others prefer to think they still have a voice, since they can mimick sounds they heard, including other beings' voices.
So in the context of that question which is about changing the sound of one's voice (alter self is the name of the spell after all) I see an additional argument to support my answer/interpretation:
- If you can only mimick sounds made by others and are unable to produce new sounds, by yourself, how would you be able to change the sounds of your mimicks ?
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
$endgroup$
There is a difference between "having a voice" and "the sound of a voice" ... since the spell does not mention anything about the ability to communicate and/or speak languages, then alter self would not in any way free a Kenku from its racial curse.
From the description of the curse:
Finally, to ensure that the kenku could never divulge any secrets, their master took away their voices.
They do not have a voice. You can't change the sound of something that does not exist.
Addendum: We're having debates in the comments about Kenkus having a voice or not, since it is kind of possible to go both ways, subjectively speaking.
I personally chose to focus on "the kenkus have had their voices removed, so they technically do not have a voice".
Others prefer to think they still have a voice, since they can mimick sounds they heard, including other beings' voices.
So in the context of that question which is about changing the sound of one's voice (alter self is the name of the spell after all) I see an additional argument to support my answer/interpretation:
- If you can only mimick sounds made by others and are unable to produce new sounds, by yourself, how would you be able to change the sounds of your mimicks ?
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Catar4Catar4
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
1,9915 silver badges18 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Given the wording, I would say that they function like audio recorders, producing only what sounds they have heard, as they heard them. So while they dont have voices, they can "speak" by producing the words they have heard in the voices they heard. (which would be awkward if they have only heard short sentences from each individual)
$endgroup$
– Journer
41 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given the wording, I would say that they function like audio recorders, producing only what sounds they have heard, as they heard them. So while they dont have voices, they can "speak" by producing the words they have heard in the voices they heard. (which would be awkward if they have only heard short sentences from each individual)
$endgroup$
– Journer
41 mins ago
$begingroup$
Given the wording, I would say that they function like audio recorders, producing only what sounds they have heard, as they heard them. So while they dont have voices, they can "speak" by producing the words they have heard in the voices they heard. (which would be awkward if they have only heard short sentences from each individual)
$endgroup$
– Journer
41 mins ago
$begingroup$
Given the wording, I would say that they function like audio recorders, producing only what sounds they have heard, as they heard them. So while they dont have voices, they can "speak" by producing the words they have heard in the voices they heard. (which would be awkward if they have only heard short sentences from each individual)
$endgroup$
– Journer
41 mins ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f154834%2fcan-the-spell-alter-self-allow-a-kenku-to-speak-normally%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
You are referring to a Kenku that has had their vocal chords removed? Or are you under the impression that Kenku don't have vocal chords?
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer I think his real question is, can a Kenku defy its racial curse and speak like other races do with the use of Alter Self...
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@thedarkwanderer He's referring to the fact that Kenku are only able to speak via mimicry of sounds or speech that they have heard in the past. See here: dndbeyond.com/races/kenku#HopelessPlagiarists
$endgroup$
– guildsbounty
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Apologies, it is about the racial curse, I've edited the question to reflect that.
$endgroup$
– RallozarX
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you the DM or the player?
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
8 hours ago