What does どうかと思う mean?How can we understand and translate はず used with facts of known truth?ず negative verbは topic particle. What does it mean?Chaining sentences, and past formのもさーこう, イロイロ and other considerationsIf から can work as an informal emphatic particle, so can ので?だって, なんだって and some other interpretation questionsTranslating ちょっとそこまではStill learning Japanese and I need help with this phrase “誰が止めるというの 心が叫んだ声を”What does “なぜって‥‥‥ それは おかあさんには ないしょなの” mean?

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What does どうかと思う mean?


How can we understand and translate はず used with facts of known truth?ず negative verbは topic particle. What does it mean?Chaining sentences, and past formのもさーこう, イロイロ and other considerationsIf から can work as an informal emphatic particle, so can ので?だって, なんだって and some other interpretation questionsTranslating ちょっとそこまではStill learning Japanese and I need help with this phrase “誰が止めるというの 心が叫んだ声を”What does “なぜって‥‥‥ それは おかあさんには ないしょなの” mean?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2















I can't seem to get a good grasp of it. I found a few example sentences and read on weblio that it means: to think (something) is improper; to question; to have a problem with.

From the sentences I read, most of them were translated as "I doubt that..." or "I'm not sure about that".


There is this line that I found in a manga, with 2 boys having a banter:

A says: 死ね。

B replies: すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う~☆ (yes his line has those symbols, which I can only think that he has a playful tone and is mocking A)



"I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that"
Do these translations make sense?










share|improve this question






























    2















    I can't seem to get a good grasp of it. I found a few example sentences and read on weblio that it means: to think (something) is improper; to question; to have a problem with.

    From the sentences I read, most of them were translated as "I doubt that..." or "I'm not sure about that".


    There is this line that I found in a manga, with 2 boys having a banter:

    A says: 死ね。

    B replies: すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う~☆ (yes his line has those symbols, which I can only think that he has a playful tone and is mocking A)



    "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that"
    Do these translations make sense?










    share|improve this question


























      2












      2








      2








      I can't seem to get a good grasp of it. I found a few example sentences and read on weblio that it means: to think (something) is improper; to question; to have a problem with.

      From the sentences I read, most of them were translated as "I doubt that..." or "I'm not sure about that".


      There is this line that I found in a manga, with 2 boys having a banter:

      A says: 死ね。

      B replies: すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う~☆ (yes his line has those symbols, which I can only think that he has a playful tone and is mocking A)



      "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that"
      Do these translations make sense?










      share|improve this question














      I can't seem to get a good grasp of it. I found a few example sentences and read on weblio that it means: to think (something) is improper; to question; to have a problem with.

      From the sentences I read, most of them were translated as "I doubt that..." or "I'm not sure about that".


      There is this line that I found in a manga, with 2 boys having a banter:

      A says: 死ね。

      B replies: すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う~☆ (yes his line has those symbols, which I can only think that he has a playful tone and is mocking A)



      "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that"
      Do these translations make sense?







      grammar translation






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 9 hours ago









      Alice B. RabbitAlice B. Rabbit

      4693 silver badges10 bronze badges




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          2 Answers
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          5













          「どうかと思う」 is a roundabout and indirect way of expressing one's somewhat negative opinion or impression of an action, situation, tendency, etc.



          It is indirect for using the word 「どうか」 ("how is it") instead of directly saying "I don't like it.", "I think it's bad.", etc.



          A more direct version of 「どうかと思う」 would be 「あまり感心かんしんしない」 ("I am not so impressed.") and that would be one way to translate 「どうかと思う」.



          Other possible translations would include:



          "I kinda wonder about ~~."



          "I don't think it's so good."



          "I find it less than ideal."



          Whatever fits the best in the target language is the best translation. One will not arrive at it just by staring at the phrase 「どうかと思う」 as it is not a direct expression.



          Finally,




          A says: 死ね。



          B replies: すぐ死ねって言うどうかと思う~☆



          "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that" Do these translations make sense?




          For a translation, that is O.K. because translation is an art, but if you really want to understand B's line, it is said about the fact that A said what he said facilely. The 「の」 in 「言うの」 is a nominalizer.



          The 「どうかと思う」 is said about A's way of speaking, which uses a serious phrase like 「死ね」 too easily. It is not said about whether B will actually die soon.






          share|improve this answer



























          • It's hard to convey how each word of the idiom make up its global meaning through translation, but building on your suggestions I personally find that I find <subject> questionable / dubious does quite a good job at it by keeping a close similarity in the literal translation of both the whole expression and each of its components (find ~= 思う ; questionable / dubious ~= どうか). Of course it's a poor translation, but may help get the feeling of it.

            – desseim
            6 hours ago







          • 1





            @lélecteur thank you for the in-depth explanation! I can understand better now. I had no idea that it could be close to あまり感心しない.<br>

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @desseim thank you for the input as well. It's the first time seeing this structure and I wasn't sure how to translate it. I found some synonyms but it was still a bit hard to convey.

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @AliceB.Rabbit I wanted to add a few more ways to decompose its components and look at it so I eventually put them in a separate answer. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this answer, it is absolutely correct, but it may help you get a bit more of the feeling behind this idiom. I find it surprisingly hard to find a literal equivalent in English that would be both accurate and self-explanatory.

            – desseim
            5 hours ago


















          0













          どう can, colloquially, be used to express one's opinion of a thing being "questionable", or "dubious", without outwardly nor directly criticizing it either.
          It takes this meaning when used more "affirmatively" in the sentence, a bit like interrogative words may take a critical meaning when put in rethorical questions in a language like English.



          In other words, akin to how What do you say ? asks a genuine interrogation while What do you think you're saying ? indirectly states a reproach, どういうことですか?
          ("What's this") most likely asks what something is while どういうことなんだよ! can express critical bewilderment ("What the **** is this !?").



          Similarly, people will often utter どうかな to express (inwardly) doubt about the validity / reasonability / etc of something. When expressed outwardly, ○○どうかな can become for example ○○どうかよ! to prompt someone to reflect on the validity / ethics / etc of ○○.



          So in your example, すぐ死ねって言うこと is what's being questioned by the speaker. You could replace the sentence by すぐ死ねって言うのどうかよ or すぐ死ねって言うのどうなんだよ and it'll be a harsh reproach of "instantly saying 'die!'". すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う or even more explicitly すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思う / すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思うけど / etc instead conveys the speaker's mixed feelings about "instantly saying 'die!'" in a more indirect thus soft and gentle way.



          Eventually the use ~☆ hints that he|she is making his criticism as lightweight and indecisive as possible. I'd wager he|she doesn't mind it much eventually, is just lightheartedly bantering, or is quite afraid of and cautious not to ire the person who said "死ね。" for example.




          I'm not sure what to think about instantly saying 'die' ;)



          What's up with that immediately saying 'die' :/




          for example would sound like legitimate translations to me, especially tone-wise.




          To be clear, the 大辞泉 lists up "having doubts, not being sure" and "finding it odd, distancing oneself with" as 2 separate definitions for どうか.
          My above explanation mixes these two, as I think the root feeling is basically the same, and I hoped for it to rather give a intuitive grasp or "gut feeling" of what the idiom can express, generally, than restricted definitions or translations.






          share|improve this answer






















          • 1





            「(~~の/~~って)どうかよ!」とは言わないですね。。

            – Chocolate
            3 hours ago














          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
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          2 Answers
          2






          active

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          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          5













          「どうかと思う」 is a roundabout and indirect way of expressing one's somewhat negative opinion or impression of an action, situation, tendency, etc.



          It is indirect for using the word 「どうか」 ("how is it") instead of directly saying "I don't like it.", "I think it's bad.", etc.



          A more direct version of 「どうかと思う」 would be 「あまり感心かんしんしない」 ("I am not so impressed.") and that would be one way to translate 「どうかと思う」.



          Other possible translations would include:



          "I kinda wonder about ~~."



          "I don't think it's so good."



          "I find it less than ideal."



          Whatever fits the best in the target language is the best translation. One will not arrive at it just by staring at the phrase 「どうかと思う」 as it is not a direct expression.



          Finally,




          A says: 死ね。



          B replies: すぐ死ねって言うどうかと思う~☆



          "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that" Do these translations make sense?




          For a translation, that is O.K. because translation is an art, but if you really want to understand B's line, it is said about the fact that A said what he said facilely. The 「の」 in 「言うの」 is a nominalizer.



          The 「どうかと思う」 is said about A's way of speaking, which uses a serious phrase like 「死ね」 too easily. It is not said about whether B will actually die soon.






          share|improve this answer



























          • It's hard to convey how each word of the idiom make up its global meaning through translation, but building on your suggestions I personally find that I find <subject> questionable / dubious does quite a good job at it by keeping a close similarity in the literal translation of both the whole expression and each of its components (find ~= 思う ; questionable / dubious ~= どうか). Of course it's a poor translation, but may help get the feeling of it.

            – desseim
            6 hours ago







          • 1





            @lélecteur thank you for the in-depth explanation! I can understand better now. I had no idea that it could be close to あまり感心しない.<br>

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @desseim thank you for the input as well. It's the first time seeing this structure and I wasn't sure how to translate it. I found some synonyms but it was still a bit hard to convey.

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @AliceB.Rabbit I wanted to add a few more ways to decompose its components and look at it so I eventually put them in a separate answer. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this answer, it is absolutely correct, but it may help you get a bit more of the feeling behind this idiom. I find it surprisingly hard to find a literal equivalent in English that would be both accurate and self-explanatory.

            – desseim
            5 hours ago















          5













          「どうかと思う」 is a roundabout and indirect way of expressing one's somewhat negative opinion or impression of an action, situation, tendency, etc.



          It is indirect for using the word 「どうか」 ("how is it") instead of directly saying "I don't like it.", "I think it's bad.", etc.



          A more direct version of 「どうかと思う」 would be 「あまり感心かんしんしない」 ("I am not so impressed.") and that would be one way to translate 「どうかと思う」.



          Other possible translations would include:



          "I kinda wonder about ~~."



          "I don't think it's so good."



          "I find it less than ideal."



          Whatever fits the best in the target language is the best translation. One will not arrive at it just by staring at the phrase 「どうかと思う」 as it is not a direct expression.



          Finally,




          A says: 死ね。



          B replies: すぐ死ねって言うどうかと思う~☆



          "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that" Do these translations make sense?




          For a translation, that is O.K. because translation is an art, but if you really want to understand B's line, it is said about the fact that A said what he said facilely. The 「の」 in 「言うの」 is a nominalizer.



          The 「どうかと思う」 is said about A's way of speaking, which uses a serious phrase like 「死ね」 too easily. It is not said about whether B will actually die soon.






          share|improve this answer



























          • It's hard to convey how each word of the idiom make up its global meaning through translation, but building on your suggestions I personally find that I find <subject> questionable / dubious does quite a good job at it by keeping a close similarity in the literal translation of both the whole expression and each of its components (find ~= 思う ; questionable / dubious ~= どうか). Of course it's a poor translation, but may help get the feeling of it.

            – desseim
            6 hours ago







          • 1





            @lélecteur thank you for the in-depth explanation! I can understand better now. I had no idea that it could be close to あまり感心しない.<br>

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @desseim thank you for the input as well. It's the first time seeing this structure and I wasn't sure how to translate it. I found some synonyms but it was still a bit hard to convey.

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @AliceB.Rabbit I wanted to add a few more ways to decompose its components and look at it so I eventually put them in a separate answer. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this answer, it is absolutely correct, but it may help you get a bit more of the feeling behind this idiom. I find it surprisingly hard to find a literal equivalent in English that would be both accurate and self-explanatory.

            – desseim
            5 hours ago













          5












          5








          5







          「どうかと思う」 is a roundabout and indirect way of expressing one's somewhat negative opinion or impression of an action, situation, tendency, etc.



          It is indirect for using the word 「どうか」 ("how is it") instead of directly saying "I don't like it.", "I think it's bad.", etc.



          A more direct version of 「どうかと思う」 would be 「あまり感心かんしんしない」 ("I am not so impressed.") and that would be one way to translate 「どうかと思う」.



          Other possible translations would include:



          "I kinda wonder about ~~."



          "I don't think it's so good."



          "I find it less than ideal."



          Whatever fits the best in the target language is the best translation. One will not arrive at it just by staring at the phrase 「どうかと思う」 as it is not a direct expression.



          Finally,




          A says: 死ね。



          B replies: すぐ死ねって言うどうかと思う~☆



          "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that" Do these translations make sense?




          For a translation, that is O.K. because translation is an art, but if you really want to understand B's line, it is said about the fact that A said what he said facilely. The 「の」 in 「言うの」 is a nominalizer.



          The 「どうかと思う」 is said about A's way of speaking, which uses a serious phrase like 「死ね」 too easily. It is not said about whether B will actually die soon.






          share|improve this answer















          「どうかと思う」 is a roundabout and indirect way of expressing one's somewhat negative opinion or impression of an action, situation, tendency, etc.



          It is indirect for using the word 「どうか」 ("how is it") instead of directly saying "I don't like it.", "I think it's bad.", etc.



          A more direct version of 「どうかと思う」 would be 「あまり感心かんしんしない」 ("I am not so impressed.") and that would be one way to translate 「どうかと思う」.



          Other possible translations would include:



          "I kinda wonder about ~~."



          "I don't think it's so good."



          "I find it less than ideal."



          Whatever fits the best in the target language is the best translation. One will not arrive at it just by staring at the phrase 「どうかと思う」 as it is not a direct expression.



          Finally,




          A says: 死ね。



          B replies: すぐ死ねって言うどうかと思う~☆



          "I doubt that I will drop dead right away"/ " Die quickly? I'm not so sure about that" Do these translations make sense?




          For a translation, that is O.K. because translation is an art, but if you really want to understand B's line, it is said about the fact that A said what he said facilely. The 「の」 in 「言うの」 is a nominalizer.



          The 「どうかと思う」 is said about A's way of speaking, which uses a serious phrase like 「死ね」 too easily. It is not said about whether B will actually die soon.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 6 hours ago

























          answered 7 hours ago









          l'électeurl'électeur

          136k9 gold badges182 silver badges298 bronze badges




          136k9 gold badges182 silver badges298 bronze badges















          • It's hard to convey how each word of the idiom make up its global meaning through translation, but building on your suggestions I personally find that I find <subject> questionable / dubious does quite a good job at it by keeping a close similarity in the literal translation of both the whole expression and each of its components (find ~= 思う ; questionable / dubious ~= どうか). Of course it's a poor translation, but may help get the feeling of it.

            – desseim
            6 hours ago







          • 1





            @lélecteur thank you for the in-depth explanation! I can understand better now. I had no idea that it could be close to あまり感心しない.<br>

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @desseim thank you for the input as well. It's the first time seeing this structure and I wasn't sure how to translate it. I found some synonyms but it was still a bit hard to convey.

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @AliceB.Rabbit I wanted to add a few more ways to decompose its components and look at it so I eventually put them in a separate answer. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this answer, it is absolutely correct, but it may help you get a bit more of the feeling behind this idiom. I find it surprisingly hard to find a literal equivalent in English that would be both accurate and self-explanatory.

            – desseim
            5 hours ago

















          • It's hard to convey how each word of the idiom make up its global meaning through translation, but building on your suggestions I personally find that I find <subject> questionable / dubious does quite a good job at it by keeping a close similarity in the literal translation of both the whole expression and each of its components (find ~= 思う ; questionable / dubious ~= どうか). Of course it's a poor translation, but may help get the feeling of it.

            – desseim
            6 hours ago







          • 1





            @lélecteur thank you for the in-depth explanation! I can understand better now. I had no idea that it could be close to あまり感心しない.<br>

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @desseim thank you for the input as well. It's the first time seeing this structure and I wasn't sure how to translate it. I found some synonyms but it was still a bit hard to convey.

            – Alice B. Rabbit
            6 hours ago











          • @AliceB.Rabbit I wanted to add a few more ways to decompose its components and look at it so I eventually put them in a separate answer. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this answer, it is absolutely correct, but it may help you get a bit more of the feeling behind this idiom. I find it surprisingly hard to find a literal equivalent in English that would be both accurate and self-explanatory.

            – desseim
            5 hours ago
















          It's hard to convey how each word of the idiom make up its global meaning through translation, but building on your suggestions I personally find that I find <subject> questionable / dubious does quite a good job at it by keeping a close similarity in the literal translation of both the whole expression and each of its components (find ~= 思う ; questionable / dubious ~= どうか). Of course it's a poor translation, but may help get the feeling of it.

          – desseim
          6 hours ago






          It's hard to convey how each word of the idiom make up its global meaning through translation, but building on your suggestions I personally find that I find <subject> questionable / dubious does quite a good job at it by keeping a close similarity in the literal translation of both the whole expression and each of its components (find ~= 思う ; questionable / dubious ~= どうか). Of course it's a poor translation, but may help get the feeling of it.

          – desseim
          6 hours ago





          1




          1





          @lélecteur thank you for the in-depth explanation! I can understand better now. I had no idea that it could be close to あまり感心しない.<br>

          – Alice B. Rabbit
          6 hours ago





          @lélecteur thank you for the in-depth explanation! I can understand better now. I had no idea that it could be close to あまり感心しない.<br>

          – Alice B. Rabbit
          6 hours ago













          @desseim thank you for the input as well. It's the first time seeing this structure and I wasn't sure how to translate it. I found some synonyms but it was still a bit hard to convey.

          – Alice B. Rabbit
          6 hours ago





          @desseim thank you for the input as well. It's the first time seeing this structure and I wasn't sure how to translate it. I found some synonyms but it was still a bit hard to convey.

          – Alice B. Rabbit
          6 hours ago













          @AliceB.Rabbit I wanted to add a few more ways to decompose its components and look at it so I eventually put them in a separate answer. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this answer, it is absolutely correct, but it may help you get a bit more of the feeling behind this idiom. I find it surprisingly hard to find a literal equivalent in English that would be both accurate and self-explanatory.

          – desseim
          5 hours ago





          @AliceB.Rabbit I wanted to add a few more ways to decompose its components and look at it so I eventually put them in a separate answer. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this answer, it is absolutely correct, but it may help you get a bit more of the feeling behind this idiom. I find it surprisingly hard to find a literal equivalent in English that would be both accurate and self-explanatory.

          – desseim
          5 hours ago













          0













          どう can, colloquially, be used to express one's opinion of a thing being "questionable", or "dubious", without outwardly nor directly criticizing it either.
          It takes this meaning when used more "affirmatively" in the sentence, a bit like interrogative words may take a critical meaning when put in rethorical questions in a language like English.



          In other words, akin to how What do you say ? asks a genuine interrogation while What do you think you're saying ? indirectly states a reproach, どういうことですか?
          ("What's this") most likely asks what something is while どういうことなんだよ! can express critical bewilderment ("What the **** is this !?").



          Similarly, people will often utter どうかな to express (inwardly) doubt about the validity / reasonability / etc of something. When expressed outwardly, ○○どうかな can become for example ○○どうかよ! to prompt someone to reflect on the validity / ethics / etc of ○○.



          So in your example, すぐ死ねって言うこと is what's being questioned by the speaker. You could replace the sentence by すぐ死ねって言うのどうかよ or すぐ死ねって言うのどうなんだよ and it'll be a harsh reproach of "instantly saying 'die!'". すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う or even more explicitly すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思う / すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思うけど / etc instead conveys the speaker's mixed feelings about "instantly saying 'die!'" in a more indirect thus soft and gentle way.



          Eventually the use ~☆ hints that he|she is making his criticism as lightweight and indecisive as possible. I'd wager he|she doesn't mind it much eventually, is just lightheartedly bantering, or is quite afraid of and cautious not to ire the person who said "死ね。" for example.




          I'm not sure what to think about instantly saying 'die' ;)



          What's up with that immediately saying 'die' :/




          for example would sound like legitimate translations to me, especially tone-wise.




          To be clear, the 大辞泉 lists up "having doubts, not being sure" and "finding it odd, distancing oneself with" as 2 separate definitions for どうか.
          My above explanation mixes these two, as I think the root feeling is basically the same, and I hoped for it to rather give a intuitive grasp or "gut feeling" of what the idiom can express, generally, than restricted definitions or translations.






          share|improve this answer






















          • 1





            「(~~の/~~って)どうかよ!」とは言わないですね。。

            – Chocolate
            3 hours ago
















          0













          どう can, colloquially, be used to express one's opinion of a thing being "questionable", or "dubious", without outwardly nor directly criticizing it either.
          It takes this meaning when used more "affirmatively" in the sentence, a bit like interrogative words may take a critical meaning when put in rethorical questions in a language like English.



          In other words, akin to how What do you say ? asks a genuine interrogation while What do you think you're saying ? indirectly states a reproach, どういうことですか?
          ("What's this") most likely asks what something is while どういうことなんだよ! can express critical bewilderment ("What the **** is this !?").



          Similarly, people will often utter どうかな to express (inwardly) doubt about the validity / reasonability / etc of something. When expressed outwardly, ○○どうかな can become for example ○○どうかよ! to prompt someone to reflect on the validity / ethics / etc of ○○.



          So in your example, すぐ死ねって言うこと is what's being questioned by the speaker. You could replace the sentence by すぐ死ねって言うのどうかよ or すぐ死ねって言うのどうなんだよ and it'll be a harsh reproach of "instantly saying 'die!'". すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う or even more explicitly すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思う / すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思うけど / etc instead conveys the speaker's mixed feelings about "instantly saying 'die!'" in a more indirect thus soft and gentle way.



          Eventually the use ~☆ hints that he|she is making his criticism as lightweight and indecisive as possible. I'd wager he|she doesn't mind it much eventually, is just lightheartedly bantering, or is quite afraid of and cautious not to ire the person who said "死ね。" for example.




          I'm not sure what to think about instantly saying 'die' ;)



          What's up with that immediately saying 'die' :/




          for example would sound like legitimate translations to me, especially tone-wise.




          To be clear, the 大辞泉 lists up "having doubts, not being sure" and "finding it odd, distancing oneself with" as 2 separate definitions for どうか.
          My above explanation mixes these two, as I think the root feeling is basically the same, and I hoped for it to rather give a intuitive grasp or "gut feeling" of what the idiom can express, generally, than restricted definitions or translations.






          share|improve this answer






















          • 1





            「(~~の/~~って)どうかよ!」とは言わないですね。。

            – Chocolate
            3 hours ago














          0












          0








          0







          どう can, colloquially, be used to express one's opinion of a thing being "questionable", or "dubious", without outwardly nor directly criticizing it either.
          It takes this meaning when used more "affirmatively" in the sentence, a bit like interrogative words may take a critical meaning when put in rethorical questions in a language like English.



          In other words, akin to how What do you say ? asks a genuine interrogation while What do you think you're saying ? indirectly states a reproach, どういうことですか?
          ("What's this") most likely asks what something is while どういうことなんだよ! can express critical bewilderment ("What the **** is this !?").



          Similarly, people will often utter どうかな to express (inwardly) doubt about the validity / reasonability / etc of something. When expressed outwardly, ○○どうかな can become for example ○○どうかよ! to prompt someone to reflect on the validity / ethics / etc of ○○.



          So in your example, すぐ死ねって言うこと is what's being questioned by the speaker. You could replace the sentence by すぐ死ねって言うのどうかよ or すぐ死ねって言うのどうなんだよ and it'll be a harsh reproach of "instantly saying 'die!'". すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う or even more explicitly すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思う / すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思うけど / etc instead conveys the speaker's mixed feelings about "instantly saying 'die!'" in a more indirect thus soft and gentle way.



          Eventually the use ~☆ hints that he|she is making his criticism as lightweight and indecisive as possible. I'd wager he|she doesn't mind it much eventually, is just lightheartedly bantering, or is quite afraid of and cautious not to ire the person who said "死ね。" for example.




          I'm not sure what to think about instantly saying 'die' ;)



          What's up with that immediately saying 'die' :/




          for example would sound like legitimate translations to me, especially tone-wise.




          To be clear, the 大辞泉 lists up "having doubts, not being sure" and "finding it odd, distancing oneself with" as 2 separate definitions for どうか.
          My above explanation mixes these two, as I think the root feeling is basically the same, and I hoped for it to rather give a intuitive grasp or "gut feeling" of what the idiom can express, generally, than restricted definitions or translations.






          share|improve this answer















          どう can, colloquially, be used to express one's opinion of a thing being "questionable", or "dubious", without outwardly nor directly criticizing it either.
          It takes this meaning when used more "affirmatively" in the sentence, a bit like interrogative words may take a critical meaning when put in rethorical questions in a language like English.



          In other words, akin to how What do you say ? asks a genuine interrogation while What do you think you're saying ? indirectly states a reproach, どういうことですか?
          ("What's this") most likely asks what something is while どういうことなんだよ! can express critical bewilderment ("What the **** is this !?").



          Similarly, people will often utter どうかな to express (inwardly) doubt about the validity / reasonability / etc of something. When expressed outwardly, ○○どうかな can become for example ○○どうかよ! to prompt someone to reflect on the validity / ethics / etc of ○○.



          So in your example, すぐ死ねって言うこと is what's being questioned by the speaker. You could replace the sentence by すぐ死ねって言うのどうかよ or すぐ死ねって言うのどうなんだよ and it'll be a harsh reproach of "instantly saying 'die!'". すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと思う or even more explicitly すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思う / すぐ死ねって言うのどうかと個人的に思うけど / etc instead conveys the speaker's mixed feelings about "instantly saying 'die!'" in a more indirect thus soft and gentle way.



          Eventually the use ~☆ hints that he|she is making his criticism as lightweight and indecisive as possible. I'd wager he|she doesn't mind it much eventually, is just lightheartedly bantering, or is quite afraid of and cautious not to ire the person who said "死ね。" for example.




          I'm not sure what to think about instantly saying 'die' ;)



          What's up with that immediately saying 'die' :/




          for example would sound like legitimate translations to me, especially tone-wise.




          To be clear, the 大辞泉 lists up "having doubts, not being sure" and "finding it odd, distancing oneself with" as 2 separate definitions for どうか.
          My above explanation mixes these two, as I think the root feeling is basically the same, and I hoped for it to rather give a intuitive grasp or "gut feeling" of what the idiom can express, generally, than restricted definitions or translations.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 4 hours ago

























          answered 5 hours ago









          desseimdesseim

          5922 silver badges7 bronze badges




          5922 silver badges7 bronze badges










          • 1





            「(~~の/~~って)どうかよ!」とは言わないですね。。

            – Chocolate
            3 hours ago













          • 1





            「(~~の/~~って)どうかよ!」とは言わないですね。。

            – Chocolate
            3 hours ago








          1




          1





          「(~~の/~~って)どうかよ!」とは言わないですね。。

          – Chocolate
          3 hours ago






          「(~~の/~~って)どうかよ!」とは言わないですね。。

          – Chocolate
          3 hours ago


















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