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Do AT motherboards (286, 386, 486) really need -5V (besides redirecting it to ISA connectors)?
Can a standard ATX power supply be used on a Macintosh Performa 476?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
The power supply of my 386DX computer (an unknown brand M320 motherboard) is not trustworthy anymore, so I'm planning to use an ATX power supply, plus an ATX to AT adapter for P8-P9 connectors.
The thing is that AT power suuplies provide +5V, +12V, -5V and -12V. ATX power supplies, until not much time ago, supplied the same outputs, plus 3.3V, but it seems that the -5V output has phased out, and some ATX supplies mark that pin as NC (not connected).
So when it comes to chosing the right ATX power supply (otoh, one that does not have any fans in the upper side, but in the back side, because ATX supplies are mounted upside down in an AT case and the fan faces the upper side of the case which is most ofently closed) it's hard to tell if the ATX connector includes the white cable that should carry -5V.
So I would like to know if AT-class motherboards need that supply for its internal things (chipset, CPU, SuperIO, etc). I can say that the very usual UM82C206L chip, used to implement most of the AT system chips (DMA, RTC, PIC, Timer, etc) does use only +5V.
power pc-at
add a comment |
The power supply of my 386DX computer (an unknown brand M320 motherboard) is not trustworthy anymore, so I'm planning to use an ATX power supply, plus an ATX to AT adapter for P8-P9 connectors.
The thing is that AT power suuplies provide +5V, +12V, -5V and -12V. ATX power supplies, until not much time ago, supplied the same outputs, plus 3.3V, but it seems that the -5V output has phased out, and some ATX supplies mark that pin as NC (not connected).
So when it comes to chosing the right ATX power supply (otoh, one that does not have any fans in the upper side, but in the back side, because ATX supplies are mounted upside down in an AT case and the fan faces the upper side of the case which is most ofently closed) it's hard to tell if the ATX connector includes the white cable that should carry -5V.
So I would like to know if AT-class motherboards need that supply for its internal things (chipset, CPU, SuperIO, etc). I can say that the very usual UM82C206L chip, used to implement most of the AT system chips (DMA, RTC, PIC, Timer, etc) does use only +5V.
power pc-at
-5V on ATX supplies was phased out almost 20 years ago now.
– Ross Ridge
6 hours ago
add a comment |
The power supply of my 386DX computer (an unknown brand M320 motherboard) is not trustworthy anymore, so I'm planning to use an ATX power supply, plus an ATX to AT adapter for P8-P9 connectors.
The thing is that AT power suuplies provide +5V, +12V, -5V and -12V. ATX power supplies, until not much time ago, supplied the same outputs, plus 3.3V, but it seems that the -5V output has phased out, and some ATX supplies mark that pin as NC (not connected).
So when it comes to chosing the right ATX power supply (otoh, one that does not have any fans in the upper side, but in the back side, because ATX supplies are mounted upside down in an AT case and the fan faces the upper side of the case which is most ofently closed) it's hard to tell if the ATX connector includes the white cable that should carry -5V.
So I would like to know if AT-class motherboards need that supply for its internal things (chipset, CPU, SuperIO, etc). I can say that the very usual UM82C206L chip, used to implement most of the AT system chips (DMA, RTC, PIC, Timer, etc) does use only +5V.
power pc-at
The power supply of my 386DX computer (an unknown brand M320 motherboard) is not trustworthy anymore, so I'm planning to use an ATX power supply, plus an ATX to AT adapter for P8-P9 connectors.
The thing is that AT power suuplies provide +5V, +12V, -5V and -12V. ATX power supplies, until not much time ago, supplied the same outputs, plus 3.3V, but it seems that the -5V output has phased out, and some ATX supplies mark that pin as NC (not connected).
So when it comes to chosing the right ATX power supply (otoh, one that does not have any fans in the upper side, but in the back side, because ATX supplies are mounted upside down in an AT case and the fan faces the upper side of the case which is most ofently closed) it's hard to tell if the ATX connector includes the white cable that should carry -5V.
So I would like to know if AT-class motherboards need that supply for its internal things (chipset, CPU, SuperIO, etc). I can say that the very usual UM82C206L chip, used to implement most of the AT system chips (DMA, RTC, PIC, Timer, etc) does use only +5V.
power pc-at
power pc-at
asked 9 hours ago
mcleod_ideafixmcleod_ideafix
12.1k1 gold badge42 silver badges75 bronze badges
12.1k1 gold badge42 silver badges75 bronze badges
-5V on ATX supplies was phased out almost 20 years ago now.
– Ross Ridge
6 hours ago
add a comment |
-5V on ATX supplies was phased out almost 20 years ago now.
– Ross Ridge
6 hours ago
-5V on ATX supplies was phased out almost 20 years ago now.
– Ross Ridge
6 hours ago
-5V on ATX supplies was phased out almost 20 years ago now.
– Ross Ridge
6 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Anecdotal answer, because I don't feel like googling for lots of schematics:
- Most AT mainboards only use +5V.
- In some cases, +12V is used for miscelleanous stuff, I remember an auto-voltage mainboard where the +5V/+3.45V switch for the 80486 processor used the voltage detection pin, and controlled the +5V Vcc connection using a FET that got its gate drive from +12V (via a resistor; pulled down if a 3.45V cpu is installed).
- If a board has onboard serial ports, the 1488/1489 level shifters also use +/-12V.
- You should nearly always be fine with missing -5V.
add a comment |
Looking at the three ATX PSUs I have to hand, all three of them have a bottom-mounted fan, and only one (the oldest, least efficient and noisiest) provides a -5V line. That's a Nexus NX-3500.
One of the others is actually an SFX-L form factor, which mounts to an ATX case using an adapter plate which leaves a significant gap on all sides relative to a full-size ATX PSU. This may expand your options somewhat, especially as the SFX-L mounting bolts are symmetric, allowing you to mount it with the fan inwards in free air.
To fit an ATX PSU to an AT m/board, you'll need to insert an adapter between the plug and socket on the low-voltage side. You could take advantage of this to derive the -5V supply from the -12V one, as not much current is carried on that line to begin with. A 7905-series linear regulator should do the trick; just add a small heatsink on top and a bypass capacitor on each side.
Oh! Just to clarify: when I said "one that does not have any fans in the upper side" I meant the upper side of an AT case, as ATX supplies have to be mounted upside down so the normally bottom faced fan is left facing up. Most ATX supplies I've seen, including the one I have as spare, have a bottom-mounted fan.
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
I think SFX-L still solves that part of your problem. I've expanded the answer to explain why.
– Chromatix
8 hours ago
2
As fot he 7905, yes, I considered that. Once I needed to service an ATX supply with a not standard form factor, so finding a replacement was hard and I wanted to give the old one a try. As I opened it, I quickly noticed the footprint of a 7905 regulator in the silk screen, obviosuly to add the -5V which this particular power supply didn't have (but it had the white wire).
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Engineering is Driven by Specifications
In general, it is always dicey to not implement the full breadth of a spec.
This is engineering, not magic or wish.
In the absence of other information, you must assume that all voltages in the spec are required.
Your Board May Be an Exception
For a particular AT motherboard, one could examine the schematic or trace the -5 V pin to be sure it doesn't connect with anything.
Seeming to Work Does Not Equal Actually Working
The -5 V rail may not be needed at all, or it may only be needed for functions you aren't currently using. Any particular motherboard may or may not require the negative voltage. Add-on cards may or may not require the negative voltage.
While all statements in your answer are true it doesn't answer the question. The question was about the actual necessarity of -5V for the main board. Mcload excluded the need of additional cards. You may want to improve your answer regarding this point.
– harper
21 secs ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Anecdotal answer, because I don't feel like googling for lots of schematics:
- Most AT mainboards only use +5V.
- In some cases, +12V is used for miscelleanous stuff, I remember an auto-voltage mainboard where the +5V/+3.45V switch for the 80486 processor used the voltage detection pin, and controlled the +5V Vcc connection using a FET that got its gate drive from +12V (via a resistor; pulled down if a 3.45V cpu is installed).
- If a board has onboard serial ports, the 1488/1489 level shifters also use +/-12V.
- You should nearly always be fine with missing -5V.
add a comment |
Anecdotal answer, because I don't feel like googling for lots of schematics:
- Most AT mainboards only use +5V.
- In some cases, +12V is used for miscelleanous stuff, I remember an auto-voltage mainboard where the +5V/+3.45V switch for the 80486 processor used the voltage detection pin, and controlled the +5V Vcc connection using a FET that got its gate drive from +12V (via a resistor; pulled down if a 3.45V cpu is installed).
- If a board has onboard serial ports, the 1488/1489 level shifters also use +/-12V.
- You should nearly always be fine with missing -5V.
add a comment |
Anecdotal answer, because I don't feel like googling for lots of schematics:
- Most AT mainboards only use +5V.
- In some cases, +12V is used for miscelleanous stuff, I remember an auto-voltage mainboard where the +5V/+3.45V switch for the 80486 processor used the voltage detection pin, and controlled the +5V Vcc connection using a FET that got its gate drive from +12V (via a resistor; pulled down if a 3.45V cpu is installed).
- If a board has onboard serial ports, the 1488/1489 level shifters also use +/-12V.
- You should nearly always be fine with missing -5V.
Anecdotal answer, because I don't feel like googling for lots of schematics:
- Most AT mainboards only use +5V.
- In some cases, +12V is used for miscelleanous stuff, I remember an auto-voltage mainboard where the +5V/+3.45V switch for the 80486 processor used the voltage detection pin, and controlled the +5V Vcc connection using a FET that got its gate drive from +12V (via a resistor; pulled down if a 3.45V cpu is installed).
- If a board has onboard serial ports, the 1488/1489 level shifters also use +/-12V.
- You should nearly always be fine with missing -5V.
edited 7 hours ago
Renan
1255 bronze badges
1255 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
Michael KarcherMichael Karcher
3105 bronze badges
3105 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Looking at the three ATX PSUs I have to hand, all three of them have a bottom-mounted fan, and only one (the oldest, least efficient and noisiest) provides a -5V line. That's a Nexus NX-3500.
One of the others is actually an SFX-L form factor, which mounts to an ATX case using an adapter plate which leaves a significant gap on all sides relative to a full-size ATX PSU. This may expand your options somewhat, especially as the SFX-L mounting bolts are symmetric, allowing you to mount it with the fan inwards in free air.
To fit an ATX PSU to an AT m/board, you'll need to insert an adapter between the plug and socket on the low-voltage side. You could take advantage of this to derive the -5V supply from the -12V one, as not much current is carried on that line to begin with. A 7905-series linear regulator should do the trick; just add a small heatsink on top and a bypass capacitor on each side.
Oh! Just to clarify: when I said "one that does not have any fans in the upper side" I meant the upper side of an AT case, as ATX supplies have to be mounted upside down so the normally bottom faced fan is left facing up. Most ATX supplies I've seen, including the one I have as spare, have a bottom-mounted fan.
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
I think SFX-L still solves that part of your problem. I've expanded the answer to explain why.
– Chromatix
8 hours ago
2
As fot he 7905, yes, I considered that. Once I needed to service an ATX supply with a not standard form factor, so finding a replacement was hard and I wanted to give the old one a try. As I opened it, I quickly noticed the footprint of a 7905 regulator in the silk screen, obviosuly to add the -5V which this particular power supply didn't have (but it had the white wire).
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Looking at the three ATX PSUs I have to hand, all three of them have a bottom-mounted fan, and only one (the oldest, least efficient and noisiest) provides a -5V line. That's a Nexus NX-3500.
One of the others is actually an SFX-L form factor, which mounts to an ATX case using an adapter plate which leaves a significant gap on all sides relative to a full-size ATX PSU. This may expand your options somewhat, especially as the SFX-L mounting bolts are symmetric, allowing you to mount it with the fan inwards in free air.
To fit an ATX PSU to an AT m/board, you'll need to insert an adapter between the plug and socket on the low-voltage side. You could take advantage of this to derive the -5V supply from the -12V one, as not much current is carried on that line to begin with. A 7905-series linear regulator should do the trick; just add a small heatsink on top and a bypass capacitor on each side.
Oh! Just to clarify: when I said "one that does not have any fans in the upper side" I meant the upper side of an AT case, as ATX supplies have to be mounted upside down so the normally bottom faced fan is left facing up. Most ATX supplies I've seen, including the one I have as spare, have a bottom-mounted fan.
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
I think SFX-L still solves that part of your problem. I've expanded the answer to explain why.
– Chromatix
8 hours ago
2
As fot he 7905, yes, I considered that. Once I needed to service an ATX supply with a not standard form factor, so finding a replacement was hard and I wanted to give the old one a try. As I opened it, I quickly noticed the footprint of a 7905 regulator in the silk screen, obviosuly to add the -5V which this particular power supply didn't have (but it had the white wire).
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Looking at the three ATX PSUs I have to hand, all three of them have a bottom-mounted fan, and only one (the oldest, least efficient and noisiest) provides a -5V line. That's a Nexus NX-3500.
One of the others is actually an SFX-L form factor, which mounts to an ATX case using an adapter plate which leaves a significant gap on all sides relative to a full-size ATX PSU. This may expand your options somewhat, especially as the SFX-L mounting bolts are symmetric, allowing you to mount it with the fan inwards in free air.
To fit an ATX PSU to an AT m/board, you'll need to insert an adapter between the plug and socket on the low-voltage side. You could take advantage of this to derive the -5V supply from the -12V one, as not much current is carried on that line to begin with. A 7905-series linear regulator should do the trick; just add a small heatsink on top and a bypass capacitor on each side.
Looking at the three ATX PSUs I have to hand, all three of them have a bottom-mounted fan, and only one (the oldest, least efficient and noisiest) provides a -5V line. That's a Nexus NX-3500.
One of the others is actually an SFX-L form factor, which mounts to an ATX case using an adapter plate which leaves a significant gap on all sides relative to a full-size ATX PSU. This may expand your options somewhat, especially as the SFX-L mounting bolts are symmetric, allowing you to mount it with the fan inwards in free air.
To fit an ATX PSU to an AT m/board, you'll need to insert an adapter between the plug and socket on the low-voltage side. You could take advantage of this to derive the -5V supply from the -12V one, as not much current is carried on that line to begin with. A 7905-series linear regulator should do the trick; just add a small heatsink on top and a bypass capacitor on each side.
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
ChromatixChromatix
1,2479 silver badges8 bronze badges
1,2479 silver badges8 bronze badges
Oh! Just to clarify: when I said "one that does not have any fans in the upper side" I meant the upper side of an AT case, as ATX supplies have to be mounted upside down so the normally bottom faced fan is left facing up. Most ATX supplies I've seen, including the one I have as spare, have a bottom-mounted fan.
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
I think SFX-L still solves that part of your problem. I've expanded the answer to explain why.
– Chromatix
8 hours ago
2
As fot he 7905, yes, I considered that. Once I needed to service an ATX supply with a not standard form factor, so finding a replacement was hard and I wanted to give the old one a try. As I opened it, I quickly noticed the footprint of a 7905 regulator in the silk screen, obviosuly to add the -5V which this particular power supply didn't have (but it had the white wire).
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Oh! Just to clarify: when I said "one that does not have any fans in the upper side" I meant the upper side of an AT case, as ATX supplies have to be mounted upside down so the normally bottom faced fan is left facing up. Most ATX supplies I've seen, including the one I have as spare, have a bottom-mounted fan.
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
I think SFX-L still solves that part of your problem. I've expanded the answer to explain why.
– Chromatix
8 hours ago
2
As fot he 7905, yes, I considered that. Once I needed to service an ATX supply with a not standard form factor, so finding a replacement was hard and I wanted to give the old one a try. As I opened it, I quickly noticed the footprint of a 7905 regulator in the silk screen, obviosuly to add the -5V which this particular power supply didn't have (but it had the white wire).
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
Oh! Just to clarify: when I said "one that does not have any fans in the upper side" I meant the upper side of an AT case, as ATX supplies have to be mounted upside down so the normally bottom faced fan is left facing up. Most ATX supplies I've seen, including the one I have as spare, have a bottom-mounted fan.
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
Oh! Just to clarify: when I said "one that does not have any fans in the upper side" I meant the upper side of an AT case, as ATX supplies have to be mounted upside down so the normally bottom faced fan is left facing up. Most ATX supplies I've seen, including the one I have as spare, have a bottom-mounted fan.
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
I think SFX-L still solves that part of your problem. I've expanded the answer to explain why.
– Chromatix
8 hours ago
I think SFX-L still solves that part of your problem. I've expanded the answer to explain why.
– Chromatix
8 hours ago
2
2
As fot he 7905, yes, I considered that. Once I needed to service an ATX supply with a not standard form factor, so finding a replacement was hard and I wanted to give the old one a try. As I opened it, I quickly noticed the footprint of a 7905 regulator in the silk screen, obviosuly to add the -5V which this particular power supply didn't have (but it had the white wire).
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
As fot he 7905, yes, I considered that. Once I needed to service an ATX supply with a not standard form factor, so finding a replacement was hard and I wanted to give the old one a try. As I opened it, I quickly noticed the footprint of a 7905 regulator in the silk screen, obviosuly to add the -5V which this particular power supply didn't have (but it had the white wire).
– mcleod_ideafix
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Engineering is Driven by Specifications
In general, it is always dicey to not implement the full breadth of a spec.
This is engineering, not magic or wish.
In the absence of other information, you must assume that all voltages in the spec are required.
Your Board May Be an Exception
For a particular AT motherboard, one could examine the schematic or trace the -5 V pin to be sure it doesn't connect with anything.
Seeming to Work Does Not Equal Actually Working
The -5 V rail may not be needed at all, or it may only be needed for functions you aren't currently using. Any particular motherboard may or may not require the negative voltage. Add-on cards may or may not require the negative voltage.
While all statements in your answer are true it doesn't answer the question. The question was about the actual necessarity of -5V for the main board. Mcload excluded the need of additional cards. You may want to improve your answer regarding this point.
– harper
21 secs ago
add a comment |
Engineering is Driven by Specifications
In general, it is always dicey to not implement the full breadth of a spec.
This is engineering, not magic or wish.
In the absence of other information, you must assume that all voltages in the spec are required.
Your Board May Be an Exception
For a particular AT motherboard, one could examine the schematic or trace the -5 V pin to be sure it doesn't connect with anything.
Seeming to Work Does Not Equal Actually Working
The -5 V rail may not be needed at all, or it may only be needed for functions you aren't currently using. Any particular motherboard may or may not require the negative voltage. Add-on cards may or may not require the negative voltage.
While all statements in your answer are true it doesn't answer the question. The question was about the actual necessarity of -5V for the main board. Mcload excluded the need of additional cards. You may want to improve your answer regarding this point.
– harper
21 secs ago
add a comment |
Engineering is Driven by Specifications
In general, it is always dicey to not implement the full breadth of a spec.
This is engineering, not magic or wish.
In the absence of other information, you must assume that all voltages in the spec are required.
Your Board May Be an Exception
For a particular AT motherboard, one could examine the schematic or trace the -5 V pin to be sure it doesn't connect with anything.
Seeming to Work Does Not Equal Actually Working
The -5 V rail may not be needed at all, or it may only be needed for functions you aren't currently using. Any particular motherboard may or may not require the negative voltage. Add-on cards may or may not require the negative voltage.
Engineering is Driven by Specifications
In general, it is always dicey to not implement the full breadth of a spec.
This is engineering, not magic or wish.
In the absence of other information, you must assume that all voltages in the spec are required.
Your Board May Be an Exception
For a particular AT motherboard, one could examine the schematic or trace the -5 V pin to be sure it doesn't connect with anything.
Seeming to Work Does Not Equal Actually Working
The -5 V rail may not be needed at all, or it may only be needed for functions you aren't currently using. Any particular motherboard may or may not require the negative voltage. Add-on cards may or may not require the negative voltage.
answered 1 hour ago
cmmcmm
5162 silver badges8 bronze badges
5162 silver badges8 bronze badges
While all statements in your answer are true it doesn't answer the question. The question was about the actual necessarity of -5V for the main board. Mcload excluded the need of additional cards. You may want to improve your answer regarding this point.
– harper
21 secs ago
add a comment |
While all statements in your answer are true it doesn't answer the question. The question was about the actual necessarity of -5V for the main board. Mcload excluded the need of additional cards. You may want to improve your answer regarding this point.
– harper
21 secs ago
While all statements in your answer are true it doesn't answer the question. The question was about the actual necessarity of -5V for the main board. Mcload excluded the need of additional cards. You may want to improve your answer regarding this point.
– harper
21 secs ago
While all statements in your answer are true it doesn't answer the question. The question was about the actual necessarity of -5V for the main board. Mcload excluded the need of additional cards. You may want to improve your answer regarding this point.
– harper
21 secs ago
add a comment |
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-5V on ATX supplies was phased out almost 20 years ago now.
– Ross Ridge
6 hours ago