Sci-fi change: Too much or Not enoughWorld Building critique: Building an SF society off a tangent of “Adaptation”Do flashbacks break up short stories too much?insecurity with a short story about mountains and loveIs this too much of a coincidence?Various sci-fi themesElectrical engineering concepts in sci-fiHow much science/medical detail is too much?Plot and characters conflict too muchAm I using too much exposition here?20 Minutes into the Future - problem with setting the period

Why do all my history books divide Chinese history after the Han dynasty?

How do I explain an exponentially complex intuitively?

Word for showing a small part of something briefly to hint to its existence or beauty without fully uncovering it

Sea level static test of an upper stage possible?

How do I stop my characters falling in love?

Correlation length anisotropy in the 2D Ising model

Why does Canada require mandatory bilingualism in all government posts?

Suggestions for protecting jeans from saddle clamp bolt

What is the most common end of life issue for a car?

Character is called by their first initial. How do I write it?

Why/when is AC-DC-AC conversion superior to direct AC-AC conversion?

Polyhedra, Polyhedron, Polytopes and Polygon

Converting 8V AC to 8V DC - bridge rectifier gets very hot while idling

Heisenberg uncertainty principle in daily life

Melee or Ranged attacks by Monsters, no distinction in modifiers?

How did the Axis intend to hold the Caucasus?

What is this spacecraft tethered to another spacecraft in LEO (vintage)

Sci fi story: Clever pigs that help a galaxy lawman

Does the Intel 8086 CPU have user mode and kernel mode?

Is it legal to use cash pulled from a credit card to pay the monthly payment on that credit card?

To find islands of 1 and 0 in matrix

Why isn't there any 9.5 digit multimeter or higher?

The Sword in the Stone

If a 2019 UA artificer has the Repeating Shot infusion on two hand crossbows, can they use two-weapon fighting?



Sci-fi change: Too much or Not enough


World Building critique: Building an SF society off a tangent of “Adaptation”Do flashbacks break up short stories too much?insecurity with a short story about mountains and loveIs this too much of a coincidence?Various sci-fi themesElectrical engineering concepts in sci-fiHow much science/medical detail is too much?Plot and characters conflict too muchAm I using too much exposition here?20 Minutes into the Future - problem with setting the period






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








5















I am in the process of editing a short story. It is science fiction of the "if this goes on" kind: I take a social trend I see, and paint its event horizon - a troubling future. 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are classical examples.



I have received two seemingly contradictory critiques from beta readers: one says




This is too much, this is a strawman, you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




The other says:




This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present. You weaken your story by keeping it too tame, by not going far enough.




How do I listen to both my beta readers here? What is hiding behind the contradictory critique? I can see how there is truth in what each of them says, but how do I combine the two?



Perhaps exacerbating the problem is the fact that this is a short story. I have very limited space to set up what I have set out to explore.










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Note that what shows in the different responses of the beta readers might be their different bias about the topic you've extrapolated. Let's say the topic is social media. Then someone who is invested in social media would be more likely to see your extrapolation as unrealistically negative, while someone who is already sceptical about social media might think that you've not gone far enough in showing their dangers.

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    On the other hand, it could be that both are right: You might e.g. have exaggerated too much on the technological means, but at the same time have been too tame with their social effects (or the other way round).

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago

















5















I am in the process of editing a short story. It is science fiction of the "if this goes on" kind: I take a social trend I see, and paint its event horizon - a troubling future. 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are classical examples.



I have received two seemingly contradictory critiques from beta readers: one says




This is too much, this is a strawman, you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




The other says:




This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present. You weaken your story by keeping it too tame, by not going far enough.




How do I listen to both my beta readers here? What is hiding behind the contradictory critique? I can see how there is truth in what each of them says, but how do I combine the two?



Perhaps exacerbating the problem is the fact that this is a short story. I have very limited space to set up what I have set out to explore.










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Note that what shows in the different responses of the beta readers might be their different bias about the topic you've extrapolated. Let's say the topic is social media. Then someone who is invested in social media would be more likely to see your extrapolation as unrealistically negative, while someone who is already sceptical about social media might think that you've not gone far enough in showing their dangers.

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    On the other hand, it could be that both are right: You might e.g. have exaggerated too much on the technological means, but at the same time have been too tame with their social effects (or the other way round).

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago













5












5








5








I am in the process of editing a short story. It is science fiction of the "if this goes on" kind: I take a social trend I see, and paint its event horizon - a troubling future. 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are classical examples.



I have received two seemingly contradictory critiques from beta readers: one says




This is too much, this is a strawman, you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




The other says:




This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present. You weaken your story by keeping it too tame, by not going far enough.




How do I listen to both my beta readers here? What is hiding behind the contradictory critique? I can see how there is truth in what each of them says, but how do I combine the two?



Perhaps exacerbating the problem is the fact that this is a short story. I have very limited space to set up what I have set out to explore.










share|improve this question














I am in the process of editing a short story. It is science fiction of the "if this goes on" kind: I take a social trend I see, and paint its event horizon - a troubling future. 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are classical examples.



I have received two seemingly contradictory critiques from beta readers: one says




This is too much, this is a strawman, you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




The other says:




This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present. You weaken your story by keeping it too tame, by not going far enough.




How do I listen to both my beta readers here? What is hiding behind the contradictory critique? I can see how there is truth in what each of them says, but how do I combine the two?



Perhaps exacerbating the problem is the fact that this is a short story. I have very limited space to set up what I have set out to explore.







plot short-story science-fiction criticism beta-readers






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









GalastelGalastel

43k6 gold badges131 silver badges237 bronze badges




43k6 gold badges131 silver badges237 bronze badges







  • 1





    Note that what shows in the different responses of the beta readers might be their different bias about the topic you've extrapolated. Let's say the topic is social media. Then someone who is invested in social media would be more likely to see your extrapolation as unrealistically negative, while someone who is already sceptical about social media might think that you've not gone far enough in showing their dangers.

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    On the other hand, it could be that both are right: You might e.g. have exaggerated too much on the technological means, but at the same time have been too tame with their social effects (or the other way round).

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago












  • 1





    Note that what shows in the different responses of the beta readers might be their different bias about the topic you've extrapolated. Let's say the topic is social media. Then someone who is invested in social media would be more likely to see your extrapolation as unrealistically negative, while someone who is already sceptical about social media might think that you've not gone far enough in showing their dangers.

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    On the other hand, it could be that both are right: You might e.g. have exaggerated too much on the technological means, but at the same time have been too tame with their social effects (or the other way round).

    – celtschk
    7 hours ago







1




1





Note that what shows in the different responses of the beta readers might be their different bias about the topic you've extrapolated. Let's say the topic is social media. Then someone who is invested in social media would be more likely to see your extrapolation as unrealistically negative, while someone who is already sceptical about social media might think that you've not gone far enough in showing their dangers.

– celtschk
7 hours ago





Note that what shows in the different responses of the beta readers might be their different bias about the topic you've extrapolated. Let's say the topic is social media. Then someone who is invested in social media would be more likely to see your extrapolation as unrealistically negative, while someone who is already sceptical about social media might think that you've not gone far enough in showing their dangers.

– celtschk
7 hours ago




1




1





On the other hand, it could be that both are right: You might e.g. have exaggerated too much on the technological means, but at the same time have been too tame with their social effects (or the other way round).

– celtschk
7 hours ago





On the other hand, it could be that both are right: You might e.g. have exaggerated too much on the technological means, but at the same time have been too tame with their social effects (or the other way round).

– celtschk
7 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2














Answer #1 is a comment/question:



Can you ask them the sorts of books/stories they'd each recommend to help you calibrate your extremity? that might be the sort of info that can point you in the direction you should go, because it may tell you which reader is naturally in tune with your intent.



Answer #2:



I think your experience is common. Science Fiction can be light, or heavy-handed (as no doubt you know), and I've for sure had readers that want more than I put in my writing. Some readers want bizarre, plain and simple. It's less a matter of right and wrong, and more a matter of preference IMO. Example: I cannot read Dawn by Octavia Butler. It is too much. Too weird. Very creepy-crawly SF and messes with my head. But something by Michael Crichton, which is fairly plausible in theory anyway, and I'm in!



Perhaps something up front can telegraph to the reader how extreme you plan to be in yours. Off the top of my head, maybe starting with something that telegraphs bizarro vs mundane:



'The green diamond of sun rose again, as it had every six hours since the apocalypse ended.'



vs



'She could hardly stand the tedium of life. What Jen would give for the faintest bit of variation from normalcy--just one thing off, one small oddity to break the monotonous normalcy of 'everyday,' 21st century Earth.'



Answer 3 is obvious--:)--More beta readers and go with the consensus.






share|improve this answer






























    1















    you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




    That can be true, at one extreme (IRL) people get out and picket a studio for canceling a favorite series, calling for boycotts. The mainstream says, "Damn, I liked that show. Too bad," and moves on. But once in a while the 1% on the picket line win, by scaring the studio, or reversing an arbitrary decision, or whatever, and in that case, the extreme has an impact on the mainstream: The series comes back from the dead, perhaps for a final season, perhaps longer.



    You need to show in your story why the extreme matters to the mainstream, how the extreme pulls it, or causes hardships for it, or creates guilt for it.



    For example, climate refugees, fleeing starvation or drought or widespread crop failure and starvation, have impacts by flooding other countries with refugees, past the breaking point of their capacity to care for any more. What happens then becomes a matter for the "mainstream", a lot of complacent people that are not refugees but suddenly feel overwhelmed by them. That leads to a rise of nationalism, bigotry, racial or religious prejudice, and that in turn can have a counter-push of tolerance and altruism and seeking answers to the problem, and all of that can play out in politics that affects everyone.



    It doesn't take a lot of poison to infect the whole body.




    This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present.




    Well, that could be a simple misunderstanding. Nearly all natural phenomenon have some braking mechanism. Imagine a company starting out, say a restaurant chain. A few good places have grown at exponential rates, doubling the number of outlets every year. But even if their profit structure supports that, it won't continue indefinitely, because the market is not infinitely large. It is going to level off someday, so will their revenue, and their profit.



    The USA grew rapidly, but it leveled off, before we even took Canada and Mexico.



    Look for the braking mechanism. It may even be the death of everybody, but there is likely some limit, somewhere. We have physical braking mechanisms, and emotional braking mechanisms (revolution, war, crimes of desperation), and political braking mechanisms, and "scientific" braking mechanisms -- even though some things are theoretically physically possible, we haven't been able to scientifically figure out how to do it. You might call that a cognitive braking mechanism, our ability to innovate and come up with new stuff can only go so far. We have that problem with fundamental physics right now, the theories of physics have been stalled over forty years, since the 70s.



    By explaining the braking mechanism, you make it plausible that no, your phenomenon isn't occurring in a vacuum and will not accelerate forever, it is interacting with other things (dependent on or affecting) that will sooner or later slow it down. Nothing, ever, goes to infinity. (But many things can decline to zero.)






    share|improve this answer






























      0














      Every reader comes at a work with a different perspective. One reader may not even notice the elements that are central for another.



      The only way to find out if your two beta readers were focusing on different things is to ask them. When a society changes fundamentally, especially when leading to dystopia, it will change multiple elements and all to different degrees.



      Gender roles, employment protections, who rears children, the weight of the military in the society, prison systems, divides between rich and poor, racial disparity, education, safety of the air and water, the appearance of the night sky, how much nature is left (or has it taken over), and so much more.



      Perhaps your first reader felt the ecological changes you were suggesting were too extreme and your second reader felt that the role of children in the society would change a lot more than you showed. But if they were both talking about, say, your portrayals of requirements for military service, then it's trickier to figure out.



      More beta readers and more details from the ones you have are your solution.






      share|improve this answer

























        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function()
        var channelOptions =
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "166"
        ;
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
        createEditor();
        );

        else
        createEditor();

        );

        function createEditor()
        StackExchange.prepareEditor(
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader:
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        ,
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        );



        );













        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function ()
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f46968%2fsci-fi-change-too-much-or-not-enough%23new-answer', 'question_page');

        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes








        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        2














        Answer #1 is a comment/question:



        Can you ask them the sorts of books/stories they'd each recommend to help you calibrate your extremity? that might be the sort of info that can point you in the direction you should go, because it may tell you which reader is naturally in tune with your intent.



        Answer #2:



        I think your experience is common. Science Fiction can be light, or heavy-handed (as no doubt you know), and I've for sure had readers that want more than I put in my writing. Some readers want bizarre, plain and simple. It's less a matter of right and wrong, and more a matter of preference IMO. Example: I cannot read Dawn by Octavia Butler. It is too much. Too weird. Very creepy-crawly SF and messes with my head. But something by Michael Crichton, which is fairly plausible in theory anyway, and I'm in!



        Perhaps something up front can telegraph to the reader how extreme you plan to be in yours. Off the top of my head, maybe starting with something that telegraphs bizarro vs mundane:



        'The green diamond of sun rose again, as it had every six hours since the apocalypse ended.'



        vs



        'She could hardly stand the tedium of life. What Jen would give for the faintest bit of variation from normalcy--just one thing off, one small oddity to break the monotonous normalcy of 'everyday,' 21st century Earth.'



        Answer 3 is obvious--:)--More beta readers and go with the consensus.






        share|improve this answer



























          2














          Answer #1 is a comment/question:



          Can you ask them the sorts of books/stories they'd each recommend to help you calibrate your extremity? that might be the sort of info that can point you in the direction you should go, because it may tell you which reader is naturally in tune with your intent.



          Answer #2:



          I think your experience is common. Science Fiction can be light, or heavy-handed (as no doubt you know), and I've for sure had readers that want more than I put in my writing. Some readers want bizarre, plain and simple. It's less a matter of right and wrong, and more a matter of preference IMO. Example: I cannot read Dawn by Octavia Butler. It is too much. Too weird. Very creepy-crawly SF and messes with my head. But something by Michael Crichton, which is fairly plausible in theory anyway, and I'm in!



          Perhaps something up front can telegraph to the reader how extreme you plan to be in yours. Off the top of my head, maybe starting with something that telegraphs bizarro vs mundane:



          'The green diamond of sun rose again, as it had every six hours since the apocalypse ended.'



          vs



          'She could hardly stand the tedium of life. What Jen would give for the faintest bit of variation from normalcy--just one thing off, one small oddity to break the monotonous normalcy of 'everyday,' 21st century Earth.'



          Answer 3 is obvious--:)--More beta readers and go with the consensus.






          share|improve this answer

























            2












            2








            2







            Answer #1 is a comment/question:



            Can you ask them the sorts of books/stories they'd each recommend to help you calibrate your extremity? that might be the sort of info that can point you in the direction you should go, because it may tell you which reader is naturally in tune with your intent.



            Answer #2:



            I think your experience is common. Science Fiction can be light, or heavy-handed (as no doubt you know), and I've for sure had readers that want more than I put in my writing. Some readers want bizarre, plain and simple. It's less a matter of right and wrong, and more a matter of preference IMO. Example: I cannot read Dawn by Octavia Butler. It is too much. Too weird. Very creepy-crawly SF and messes with my head. But something by Michael Crichton, which is fairly plausible in theory anyway, and I'm in!



            Perhaps something up front can telegraph to the reader how extreme you plan to be in yours. Off the top of my head, maybe starting with something that telegraphs bizarro vs mundane:



            'The green diamond of sun rose again, as it had every six hours since the apocalypse ended.'



            vs



            'She could hardly stand the tedium of life. What Jen would give for the faintest bit of variation from normalcy--just one thing off, one small oddity to break the monotonous normalcy of 'everyday,' 21st century Earth.'



            Answer 3 is obvious--:)--More beta readers and go with the consensus.






            share|improve this answer













            Answer #1 is a comment/question:



            Can you ask them the sorts of books/stories they'd each recommend to help you calibrate your extremity? that might be the sort of info that can point you in the direction you should go, because it may tell you which reader is naturally in tune with your intent.



            Answer #2:



            I think your experience is common. Science Fiction can be light, or heavy-handed (as no doubt you know), and I've for sure had readers that want more than I put in my writing. Some readers want bizarre, plain and simple. It's less a matter of right and wrong, and more a matter of preference IMO. Example: I cannot read Dawn by Octavia Butler. It is too much. Too weird. Very creepy-crawly SF and messes with my head. But something by Michael Crichton, which is fairly plausible in theory anyway, and I'm in!



            Perhaps something up front can telegraph to the reader how extreme you plan to be in yours. Off the top of my head, maybe starting with something that telegraphs bizarro vs mundane:



            'The green diamond of sun rose again, as it had every six hours since the apocalypse ended.'



            vs



            'She could hardly stand the tedium of life. What Jen would give for the faintest bit of variation from normalcy--just one thing off, one small oddity to break the monotonous normalcy of 'everyday,' 21st century Earth.'



            Answer 3 is obvious--:)--More beta readers and go with the consensus.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 7 hours ago









            DPTDPT

            19.1k2 gold badges38 silver badges101 bronze badges




            19.1k2 gold badges38 silver badges101 bronze badges























                1















                you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




                That can be true, at one extreme (IRL) people get out and picket a studio for canceling a favorite series, calling for boycotts. The mainstream says, "Damn, I liked that show. Too bad," and moves on. But once in a while the 1% on the picket line win, by scaring the studio, or reversing an arbitrary decision, or whatever, and in that case, the extreme has an impact on the mainstream: The series comes back from the dead, perhaps for a final season, perhaps longer.



                You need to show in your story why the extreme matters to the mainstream, how the extreme pulls it, or causes hardships for it, or creates guilt for it.



                For example, climate refugees, fleeing starvation or drought or widespread crop failure and starvation, have impacts by flooding other countries with refugees, past the breaking point of their capacity to care for any more. What happens then becomes a matter for the "mainstream", a lot of complacent people that are not refugees but suddenly feel overwhelmed by them. That leads to a rise of nationalism, bigotry, racial or religious prejudice, and that in turn can have a counter-push of tolerance and altruism and seeking answers to the problem, and all of that can play out in politics that affects everyone.



                It doesn't take a lot of poison to infect the whole body.




                This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present.




                Well, that could be a simple misunderstanding. Nearly all natural phenomenon have some braking mechanism. Imagine a company starting out, say a restaurant chain. A few good places have grown at exponential rates, doubling the number of outlets every year. But even if their profit structure supports that, it won't continue indefinitely, because the market is not infinitely large. It is going to level off someday, so will their revenue, and their profit.



                The USA grew rapidly, but it leveled off, before we even took Canada and Mexico.



                Look for the braking mechanism. It may even be the death of everybody, but there is likely some limit, somewhere. We have physical braking mechanisms, and emotional braking mechanisms (revolution, war, crimes of desperation), and political braking mechanisms, and "scientific" braking mechanisms -- even though some things are theoretically physically possible, we haven't been able to scientifically figure out how to do it. You might call that a cognitive braking mechanism, our ability to innovate and come up with new stuff can only go so far. We have that problem with fundamental physics right now, the theories of physics have been stalled over forty years, since the 70s.



                By explaining the braking mechanism, you make it plausible that no, your phenomenon isn't occurring in a vacuum and will not accelerate forever, it is interacting with other things (dependent on or affecting) that will sooner or later slow it down. Nothing, ever, goes to infinity. (But many things can decline to zero.)






                share|improve this answer



























                  1















                  you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




                  That can be true, at one extreme (IRL) people get out and picket a studio for canceling a favorite series, calling for boycotts. The mainstream says, "Damn, I liked that show. Too bad," and moves on. But once in a while the 1% on the picket line win, by scaring the studio, or reversing an arbitrary decision, or whatever, and in that case, the extreme has an impact on the mainstream: The series comes back from the dead, perhaps for a final season, perhaps longer.



                  You need to show in your story why the extreme matters to the mainstream, how the extreme pulls it, or causes hardships for it, or creates guilt for it.



                  For example, climate refugees, fleeing starvation or drought or widespread crop failure and starvation, have impacts by flooding other countries with refugees, past the breaking point of their capacity to care for any more. What happens then becomes a matter for the "mainstream", a lot of complacent people that are not refugees but suddenly feel overwhelmed by them. That leads to a rise of nationalism, bigotry, racial or religious prejudice, and that in turn can have a counter-push of tolerance and altruism and seeking answers to the problem, and all of that can play out in politics that affects everyone.



                  It doesn't take a lot of poison to infect the whole body.




                  This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present.




                  Well, that could be a simple misunderstanding. Nearly all natural phenomenon have some braking mechanism. Imagine a company starting out, say a restaurant chain. A few good places have grown at exponential rates, doubling the number of outlets every year. But even if their profit structure supports that, it won't continue indefinitely, because the market is not infinitely large. It is going to level off someday, so will their revenue, and their profit.



                  The USA grew rapidly, but it leveled off, before we even took Canada and Mexico.



                  Look for the braking mechanism. It may even be the death of everybody, but there is likely some limit, somewhere. We have physical braking mechanisms, and emotional braking mechanisms (revolution, war, crimes of desperation), and political braking mechanisms, and "scientific" braking mechanisms -- even though some things are theoretically physically possible, we haven't been able to scientifically figure out how to do it. You might call that a cognitive braking mechanism, our ability to innovate and come up with new stuff can only go so far. We have that problem with fundamental physics right now, the theories of physics have been stalled over forty years, since the 70s.



                  By explaining the braking mechanism, you make it plausible that no, your phenomenon isn't occurring in a vacuum and will not accelerate forever, it is interacting with other things (dependent on or affecting) that will sooner or later slow it down. Nothing, ever, goes to infinity. (But many things can decline to zero.)






                  share|improve this answer

























                    1












                    1








                    1








                    you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




                    That can be true, at one extreme (IRL) people get out and picket a studio for canceling a favorite series, calling for boycotts. The mainstream says, "Damn, I liked that show. Too bad," and moves on. But once in a while the 1% on the picket line win, by scaring the studio, or reversing an arbitrary decision, or whatever, and in that case, the extreme has an impact on the mainstream: The series comes back from the dead, perhaps for a final season, perhaps longer.



                    You need to show in your story why the extreme matters to the mainstream, how the extreme pulls it, or causes hardships for it, or creates guilt for it.



                    For example, climate refugees, fleeing starvation or drought or widespread crop failure and starvation, have impacts by flooding other countries with refugees, past the breaking point of their capacity to care for any more. What happens then becomes a matter for the "mainstream", a lot of complacent people that are not refugees but suddenly feel overwhelmed by them. That leads to a rise of nationalism, bigotry, racial or religious prejudice, and that in turn can have a counter-push of tolerance and altruism and seeking answers to the problem, and all of that can play out in politics that affects everyone.



                    It doesn't take a lot of poison to infect the whole body.




                    This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present.




                    Well, that could be a simple misunderstanding. Nearly all natural phenomenon have some braking mechanism. Imagine a company starting out, say a restaurant chain. A few good places have grown at exponential rates, doubling the number of outlets every year. But even if their profit structure supports that, it won't continue indefinitely, because the market is not infinitely large. It is going to level off someday, so will their revenue, and their profit.



                    The USA grew rapidly, but it leveled off, before we even took Canada and Mexico.



                    Look for the braking mechanism. It may even be the death of everybody, but there is likely some limit, somewhere. We have physical braking mechanisms, and emotional braking mechanisms (revolution, war, crimes of desperation), and political braking mechanisms, and "scientific" braking mechanisms -- even though some things are theoretically physically possible, we haven't been able to scientifically figure out how to do it. You might call that a cognitive braking mechanism, our ability to innovate and come up with new stuff can only go so far. We have that problem with fundamental physics right now, the theories of physics have been stalled over forty years, since the 70s.



                    By explaining the braking mechanism, you make it plausible that no, your phenomenon isn't occurring in a vacuum and will not accelerate forever, it is interacting with other things (dependent on or affecting) that will sooner or later slow it down. Nothing, ever, goes to infinity. (But many things can decline to zero.)






                    share|improve this answer














                    you are weakening your argument by presenting the extreme edge of the phenomenon you wish to engage with rather than its mainstream.




                    That can be true, at one extreme (IRL) people get out and picket a studio for canceling a favorite series, calling for boycotts. The mainstream says, "Damn, I liked that show. Too bad," and moves on. But once in a while the 1% on the picket line win, by scaring the studio, or reversing an arbitrary decision, or whatever, and in that case, the extreme has an impact on the mainstream: The series comes back from the dead, perhaps for a final season, perhaps longer.



                    You need to show in your story why the extreme matters to the mainstream, how the extreme pulls it, or causes hardships for it, or creates guilt for it.



                    For example, climate refugees, fleeing starvation or drought or widespread crop failure and starvation, have impacts by flooding other countries with refugees, past the breaking point of their capacity to care for any more. What happens then becomes a matter for the "mainstream", a lot of complacent people that are not refugees but suddenly feel overwhelmed by them. That leads to a rise of nationalism, bigotry, racial or religious prejudice, and that in turn can have a counter-push of tolerance and altruism and seeking answers to the problem, and all of that can play out in politics that affects everyone.



                    It doesn't take a lot of poison to infect the whole body.




                    This is not enough. If you give that phenomenon free reign, it would go much further, get much worse than what you present.




                    Well, that could be a simple misunderstanding. Nearly all natural phenomenon have some braking mechanism. Imagine a company starting out, say a restaurant chain. A few good places have grown at exponential rates, doubling the number of outlets every year. But even if their profit structure supports that, it won't continue indefinitely, because the market is not infinitely large. It is going to level off someday, so will their revenue, and their profit.



                    The USA grew rapidly, but it leveled off, before we even took Canada and Mexico.



                    Look for the braking mechanism. It may even be the death of everybody, but there is likely some limit, somewhere. We have physical braking mechanisms, and emotional braking mechanisms (revolution, war, crimes of desperation), and political braking mechanisms, and "scientific" braking mechanisms -- even though some things are theoretically physically possible, we haven't been able to scientifically figure out how to do it. You might call that a cognitive braking mechanism, our ability to innovate and come up with new stuff can only go so far. We have that problem with fundamental physics right now, the theories of physics have been stalled over forty years, since the 70s.



                    By explaining the braking mechanism, you make it plausible that no, your phenomenon isn't occurring in a vacuum and will not accelerate forever, it is interacting with other things (dependent on or affecting) that will sooner or later slow it down. Nothing, ever, goes to infinity. (But many things can decline to zero.)







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 3 hours ago









                    AmadeusAmadeus

                    70.1k7 gold badges91 silver badges231 bronze badges




                    70.1k7 gold badges91 silver badges231 bronze badges





















                        0














                        Every reader comes at a work with a different perspective. One reader may not even notice the elements that are central for another.



                        The only way to find out if your two beta readers were focusing on different things is to ask them. When a society changes fundamentally, especially when leading to dystopia, it will change multiple elements and all to different degrees.



                        Gender roles, employment protections, who rears children, the weight of the military in the society, prison systems, divides between rich and poor, racial disparity, education, safety of the air and water, the appearance of the night sky, how much nature is left (or has it taken over), and so much more.



                        Perhaps your first reader felt the ecological changes you were suggesting were too extreme and your second reader felt that the role of children in the society would change a lot more than you showed. But if they were both talking about, say, your portrayals of requirements for military service, then it's trickier to figure out.



                        More beta readers and more details from the ones you have are your solution.






                        share|improve this answer



























                          0














                          Every reader comes at a work with a different perspective. One reader may not even notice the elements that are central for another.



                          The only way to find out if your two beta readers were focusing on different things is to ask them. When a society changes fundamentally, especially when leading to dystopia, it will change multiple elements and all to different degrees.



                          Gender roles, employment protections, who rears children, the weight of the military in the society, prison systems, divides between rich and poor, racial disparity, education, safety of the air and water, the appearance of the night sky, how much nature is left (or has it taken over), and so much more.



                          Perhaps your first reader felt the ecological changes you were suggesting were too extreme and your second reader felt that the role of children in the society would change a lot more than you showed. But if they were both talking about, say, your portrayals of requirements for military service, then it's trickier to figure out.



                          More beta readers and more details from the ones you have are your solution.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            Every reader comes at a work with a different perspective. One reader may not even notice the elements that are central for another.



                            The only way to find out if your two beta readers were focusing on different things is to ask them. When a society changes fundamentally, especially when leading to dystopia, it will change multiple elements and all to different degrees.



                            Gender roles, employment protections, who rears children, the weight of the military in the society, prison systems, divides between rich and poor, racial disparity, education, safety of the air and water, the appearance of the night sky, how much nature is left (or has it taken over), and so much more.



                            Perhaps your first reader felt the ecological changes you were suggesting were too extreme and your second reader felt that the role of children in the society would change a lot more than you showed. But if they were both talking about, say, your portrayals of requirements for military service, then it's trickier to figure out.



                            More beta readers and more details from the ones you have are your solution.






                            share|improve this answer













                            Every reader comes at a work with a different perspective. One reader may not even notice the elements that are central for another.



                            The only way to find out if your two beta readers were focusing on different things is to ask them. When a society changes fundamentally, especially when leading to dystopia, it will change multiple elements and all to different degrees.



                            Gender roles, employment protections, who rears children, the weight of the military in the society, prison systems, divides between rich and poor, racial disparity, education, safety of the air and water, the appearance of the night sky, how much nature is left (or has it taken over), and so much more.



                            Perhaps your first reader felt the ecological changes you were suggesting were too extreme and your second reader felt that the role of children in the society would change a lot more than you showed. But if they were both talking about, say, your portrayals of requirements for military service, then it's trickier to figure out.



                            More beta readers and more details from the ones you have are your solution.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 2 hours ago









                            CynCyn

                            27.5k2 gold badges60 silver badges127 bronze badges




                            27.5k2 gold badges60 silver badges127 bronze badges



























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded
















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Writing Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid


                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function ()
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f46968%2fsci-fi-change-too-much-or-not-enough%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

                                Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

                                Ласкавець круглолистий Зміст Опис | Поширення | Галерея | Примітки | Посилання | Навігаційне меню58171138361-22960890446Bupleurum rotundifoliumEuro+Med PlantbasePlants of the World Online — Kew ScienceGermplasm Resources Information Network (GRIN)Ласкавецькн. VI : Літери Ком — Левиправивши або дописавши її