How to avoid theft of potentially patentable IP when trying to obtain a Ph.D?Assume an undergrad has something worth publishing: how might (s)he get it published?Trust issues with my PhD advisor, is it worth fixing or can I get out?Should I give up on trying to get into a PhD program?I found published results of my mentor to be wrong. How to tell her?(Indirectly) looking for a PhD before I have published a paperQuitting a PhD program after four years and applying elsewhereI am having trouble with my advisor. Can someone help?How to avoid personal issues interfering with my Ph.D. studies?Emailing professors: Guidelines on choosing papersWhat to do when advisor does not want to work together?
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How to avoid theft of potentially patentable IP when trying to obtain a Ph.D?
Assume an undergrad has something worth publishing: how might (s)he get it published?Trust issues with my PhD advisor, is it worth fixing or can I get out?Should I give up on trying to get into a PhD program?I found published results of my mentor to be wrong. How to tell her?(Indirectly) looking for a PhD before I have published a paperQuitting a PhD program after four years and applying elsewhereI am having trouble with my advisor. Can someone help?How to avoid personal issues interfering with my Ph.D. studies?Emailing professors: Guidelines on choosing papersWhat to do when advisor does not want to work together?
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When I was fresh out of college, I worked with someone who had their Ph.D who I'll call X. They told me that they had lunch with a person from Facebook who had told them about a Novel Algorithm Facebook had created. X decided to do a patent search on this algorithm, and it did not exist. Therefore, X decided to patent it himself as a System and Method.
My researched solution to a problem could potentially be worth millions of dollars. I don't mean to sound braggadocious or grandiose, but I have experience in the industry, and I'm aware of how potentially valuable it could be. I was thinking about doing a Ph.D on it. How do I prevent professors such as X from patenting my solution, or presenting it as their own idea in a publication? Since my solution could potentially be worth so much money, should I just patent it myself? The only caveat is that it is super expensive to do that. Should I apply for a grant on grant.gov? Should I write a manuscript in arXiv.org? Should I try to write a business plan and try to get funding?
publications phd patents
|
show 3 more comments
When I was fresh out of college, I worked with someone who had their Ph.D who I'll call X. They told me that they had lunch with a person from Facebook who had told them about a Novel Algorithm Facebook had created. X decided to do a patent search on this algorithm, and it did not exist. Therefore, X decided to patent it himself as a System and Method.
My researched solution to a problem could potentially be worth millions of dollars. I don't mean to sound braggadocious or grandiose, but I have experience in the industry, and I'm aware of how potentially valuable it could be. I was thinking about doing a Ph.D on it. How do I prevent professors such as X from patenting my solution, or presenting it as their own idea in a publication? Since my solution could potentially be worth so much money, should I just patent it myself? The only caveat is that it is super expensive to do that. Should I apply for a grant on grant.gov? Should I write a manuscript in arXiv.org? Should I try to write a business plan and try to get funding?
publications phd patents
25
I think the usage here isn't the standard one. Patent trolls normally buy up existing patents and then sue people for infringement on shaky (or not shaky) grounds. I think the intention here is to imply someone stealing the idea and patenting it themselves.
– Buffy
yesterday
4
If you did a PhD on the topic, in many institutions that would give them a claim on whatever you produce (sometimes giving you only minority royalties even if sold), whether you try to patent it or have them patent it. Policy/agreements vary by institution. Ultimately the strategy you should take for monetizing or defending intellectual property will be beyond the scope of this stack, as it requires a deep familiarity with your local laws, market for IP in that industry, etc. Many Universities have IP development/grant programs, so you might consider checking what they offer. YMMV
– BrianH
yesterday
5
"Theft of intellectual property" would be a more accurate label, not "trolling", etc.
– paul garrett
22 hours ago
9
The story told sound completely implausible to me. If Facebook is far enough along development of something patentable that a description over lunch would allow someone to scoop it, then they would have already patented it.
– Tobias Kildetoft
20 hours ago
3
If X is patenting something that someone from Facebook told them at lunch has been invented at Facebook, then either 1. the blabbermouth, 2. the person that failed to patent it (if so) or 3. prof X are in for a very big surprise, possibly all three. I am surprised that such information about a vulnerable invention would go out without an NDA. OP may want to inform themselves about the IP policy of their academic institution. It is probably not as powerful as FB, but will still be interested in IP not getting violated.
– Captain Emacs
19 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
When I was fresh out of college, I worked with someone who had their Ph.D who I'll call X. They told me that they had lunch with a person from Facebook who had told them about a Novel Algorithm Facebook had created. X decided to do a patent search on this algorithm, and it did not exist. Therefore, X decided to patent it himself as a System and Method.
My researched solution to a problem could potentially be worth millions of dollars. I don't mean to sound braggadocious or grandiose, but I have experience in the industry, and I'm aware of how potentially valuable it could be. I was thinking about doing a Ph.D on it. How do I prevent professors such as X from patenting my solution, or presenting it as their own idea in a publication? Since my solution could potentially be worth so much money, should I just patent it myself? The only caveat is that it is super expensive to do that. Should I apply for a grant on grant.gov? Should I write a manuscript in arXiv.org? Should I try to write a business plan and try to get funding?
publications phd patents
When I was fresh out of college, I worked with someone who had their Ph.D who I'll call X. They told me that they had lunch with a person from Facebook who had told them about a Novel Algorithm Facebook had created. X decided to do a patent search on this algorithm, and it did not exist. Therefore, X decided to patent it himself as a System and Method.
My researched solution to a problem could potentially be worth millions of dollars. I don't mean to sound braggadocious or grandiose, but I have experience in the industry, and I'm aware of how potentially valuable it could be. I was thinking about doing a Ph.D on it. How do I prevent professors such as X from patenting my solution, or presenting it as their own idea in a publication? Since my solution could potentially be worth so much money, should I just patent it myself? The only caveat is that it is super expensive to do that. Should I apply for a grant on grant.gov? Should I write a manuscript in arXiv.org? Should I try to write a business plan and try to get funding?
publications phd patents
publications phd patents
edited 3 hours ago
Buffy
75.1k19 gold badges227 silver badges338 bronze badges
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asked yesterday
Gary DrocellaGary Drocella
736 bronze badges
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25
I think the usage here isn't the standard one. Patent trolls normally buy up existing patents and then sue people for infringement on shaky (or not shaky) grounds. I think the intention here is to imply someone stealing the idea and patenting it themselves.
– Buffy
yesterday
4
If you did a PhD on the topic, in many institutions that would give them a claim on whatever you produce (sometimes giving you only minority royalties even if sold), whether you try to patent it or have them patent it. Policy/agreements vary by institution. Ultimately the strategy you should take for monetizing or defending intellectual property will be beyond the scope of this stack, as it requires a deep familiarity with your local laws, market for IP in that industry, etc. Many Universities have IP development/grant programs, so you might consider checking what they offer. YMMV
– BrianH
yesterday
5
"Theft of intellectual property" would be a more accurate label, not "trolling", etc.
– paul garrett
22 hours ago
9
The story told sound completely implausible to me. If Facebook is far enough along development of something patentable that a description over lunch would allow someone to scoop it, then they would have already patented it.
– Tobias Kildetoft
20 hours ago
3
If X is patenting something that someone from Facebook told them at lunch has been invented at Facebook, then either 1. the blabbermouth, 2. the person that failed to patent it (if so) or 3. prof X are in for a very big surprise, possibly all three. I am surprised that such information about a vulnerable invention would go out without an NDA. OP may want to inform themselves about the IP policy of their academic institution. It is probably not as powerful as FB, but will still be interested in IP not getting violated.
– Captain Emacs
19 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
25
I think the usage here isn't the standard one. Patent trolls normally buy up existing patents and then sue people for infringement on shaky (or not shaky) grounds. I think the intention here is to imply someone stealing the idea and patenting it themselves.
– Buffy
yesterday
4
If you did a PhD on the topic, in many institutions that would give them a claim on whatever you produce (sometimes giving you only minority royalties even if sold), whether you try to patent it or have them patent it. Policy/agreements vary by institution. Ultimately the strategy you should take for monetizing or defending intellectual property will be beyond the scope of this stack, as it requires a deep familiarity with your local laws, market for IP in that industry, etc. Many Universities have IP development/grant programs, so you might consider checking what they offer. YMMV
– BrianH
yesterday
5
"Theft of intellectual property" would be a more accurate label, not "trolling", etc.
– paul garrett
22 hours ago
9
The story told sound completely implausible to me. If Facebook is far enough along development of something patentable that a description over lunch would allow someone to scoop it, then they would have already patented it.
– Tobias Kildetoft
20 hours ago
3
If X is patenting something that someone from Facebook told them at lunch has been invented at Facebook, then either 1. the blabbermouth, 2. the person that failed to patent it (if so) or 3. prof X are in for a very big surprise, possibly all three. I am surprised that such information about a vulnerable invention would go out without an NDA. OP may want to inform themselves about the IP policy of their academic institution. It is probably not as powerful as FB, but will still be interested in IP not getting violated.
– Captain Emacs
19 hours ago
25
25
I think the usage here isn't the standard one. Patent trolls normally buy up existing patents and then sue people for infringement on shaky (or not shaky) grounds. I think the intention here is to imply someone stealing the idea and patenting it themselves.
– Buffy
yesterday
I think the usage here isn't the standard one. Patent trolls normally buy up existing patents and then sue people for infringement on shaky (or not shaky) grounds. I think the intention here is to imply someone stealing the idea and patenting it themselves.
– Buffy
yesterday
4
4
If you did a PhD on the topic, in many institutions that would give them a claim on whatever you produce (sometimes giving you only minority royalties even if sold), whether you try to patent it or have them patent it. Policy/agreements vary by institution. Ultimately the strategy you should take for monetizing or defending intellectual property will be beyond the scope of this stack, as it requires a deep familiarity with your local laws, market for IP in that industry, etc. Many Universities have IP development/grant programs, so you might consider checking what they offer. YMMV
– BrianH
yesterday
If you did a PhD on the topic, in many institutions that would give them a claim on whatever you produce (sometimes giving you only minority royalties even if sold), whether you try to patent it or have them patent it. Policy/agreements vary by institution. Ultimately the strategy you should take for monetizing or defending intellectual property will be beyond the scope of this stack, as it requires a deep familiarity with your local laws, market for IP in that industry, etc. Many Universities have IP development/grant programs, so you might consider checking what they offer. YMMV
– BrianH
yesterday
5
5
"Theft of intellectual property" would be a more accurate label, not "trolling", etc.
– paul garrett
22 hours ago
"Theft of intellectual property" would be a more accurate label, not "trolling", etc.
– paul garrett
22 hours ago
9
9
The story told sound completely implausible to me. If Facebook is far enough along development of something patentable that a description over lunch would allow someone to scoop it, then they would have already patented it.
– Tobias Kildetoft
20 hours ago
The story told sound completely implausible to me. If Facebook is far enough along development of something patentable that a description over lunch would allow someone to scoop it, then they would have already patented it.
– Tobias Kildetoft
20 hours ago
3
3
If X is patenting something that someone from Facebook told them at lunch has been invented at Facebook, then either 1. the blabbermouth, 2. the person that failed to patent it (if so) or 3. prof X are in for a very big surprise, possibly all three. I am surprised that such information about a vulnerable invention would go out without an NDA. OP may want to inform themselves about the IP policy of their academic institution. It is probably not as powerful as FB, but will still be interested in IP not getting violated.
– Captain Emacs
19 hours ago
If X is patenting something that someone from Facebook told them at lunch has been invented at Facebook, then either 1. the blabbermouth, 2. the person that failed to patent it (if so) or 3. prof X are in for a very big surprise, possibly all three. I am surprised that such information about a vulnerable invention would go out without an NDA. OP may want to inform themselves about the IP policy of their academic institution. It is probably not as powerful as FB, but will still be interested in IP not getting violated.
– Captain Emacs
19 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
Let me describe fairly typical practice at reputable US universities. When someone has a patentable idea, the university itself will take over the patent process, paying lawyers and fees. The university will probably be the patent holder of record, but will make arrangements with the actual creator(s) to share any income that results from exploiting the patent.
This can be good or bad, I suppose, but the good part is that the university covers the cost and also provides backup if anyone challenges the patent at any point. This can be very difficult for an individual to do on their own. The bad part is that the patent is probably in the university's name, though that may vary. Another point is that the university may take it upon itself to find ways to monetize the patent if it is awarded. Again, this can be a large expense for an individual.
But one protection for you, a student with an idea, is that if the university is, indeed, reputable, it won't try to steal your idea or let a faculty member steal it.
But faculty at the (reputable) institutions that do a lot of patentable research normally require this (or a similar) process as part of the contract with the faculty member. Such agreements might also be necessary for a student to participate in such work. And there is usually an office, full of lawyers, dedicated to shepherding such work. So a further expectation is that the university is not only reputable, but also large enough to support that office.
And the sharing arrangement may be standardized or, possibly, negotiated, so long as costs can be expected to be covered.
The situation and the rules will also probably vary by a lot in other countries.
For completeness, I'll note that large companies doing important research also tend to have (and require) some similar arrangements with their own researchers.
add a comment |
About doing a PhD, before thinking about academics stealing your idea you might want to think about how you are going to publish papers (usually a requirement during the PhD) if you want to keep your idea secret. As far as I know you won't be able to publish anything before the patent is granted, and that could take a few years. It doesn't mean that it's impossible but it might be tricky.
The alternative to the academic route described in Buffy's answer is to create your own start-up first, then develop and patent your idea under the name of your company. This might take a few years and will cost a lot of money indeed. If you can make sure that your idea is viable and really worth millions of dollars, then it's still a sound investment.
The first step would be to consult with a good specialized lawyer who will advise you on how to proceed (for instance inform you about NDAs, you will probably need these). Again, it's worth the expense in order to avoid making mistakes which could easily ruin your business.
add a comment |
What you describe is closer to "scooping" than "patent trolling". But actually it's just theft.
If you truly believe your invention is valuable, then you can patent it yourself. You would need to find a reputable patent lawyer. And you can expect to pay thousands of dollars in fees. (Beware of disreputable patent lawyers.) Plus you will likely need the help of lawyers again to actually collect any money from your patent, as you must sue those who infringe on your patent, or at least threaten to do so.
If you just want credit for your invention, write a paper about it and stick it on arxiv or a similar repository. The arxiv timestamp clearly establishes precedence. That means no one else can subsequently patent the invention -- your work becomes prior art that invalidates any subsequent patent. Sharing your invention like this does not immediately prevent you from patenting it. However, there are time limits. I believe you need to submit a patent within one year of making it public.
Note that your employer may claim ownership of any intellectual property that you create. For example, most universities do this. On the positive side, this means they may pay for the patent. On the negative side, they may claim some or all of the money you get from it.
2
Keep in mind that doing this instantly makes it prior art in Europe. There's no delay.
– JS Lavertu
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I was thinking about doing a Ph.D. on it . . . "
I think the first question is for yourself as a person.
Which human environment do you prefer to work in ? The business environment or the academic environment ?
This is the essential question here as people in these two sectors relate and associate in completely different ways.
If you have the urge to impart and receive knowledge freely, are comfortable in situations of psychological trust with young people and not too worldly when it comes to money, maybe a Ph.D. with the right supervisor is a valid consideration. If you go this route, don't expect to be rich. Staff at colleges sometimes make millions from their work but no student does - unless the insights are kept secret and developed later off-campus.
But don't go into a Ph.D. just to experiment/develop an idea you want to commercialize. Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated. For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together. Patent trollers are a natural hazard here but you'll have support from your own company and many patent attorneys will undertake protection work on the understanding of later payment after patents are granted.
New contributor
1
''Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated.'' Unfortunately true.
– Tom
11 hours ago
1
This answer deserves to be accepted.
– BonsaiOak
10 hours ago
1
Basically, you want the university to fund your secret startup company for a few years, in exchange for pretending to be an academic researcher. Most organizations (and the people in them) don't like being on the wrong end what looks like a financial scam, even if it's not actually illegal.
– alephzero
6 hours ago
3
For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector — Objection! There are lots of supportive and nurturing academic environments, and lots of toxic non-academic environments. I'm sorry your academic experience was so negative, but that's not universal.
– JeffE
6 hours ago
1
"these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together" - I have spent a little time (a long while ago) in the private sector, I have several friends who have either recently spent time in the private sector or left academia for the private sector some year ago, and the claim I have quoted above is, to put it mildly, hyperbolic and far from guaranteed
– Yemon Choi
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Edit: Sorry, misread question. Salvaging what I can of it.
It's best not to get too carried away with the commercial potential of new ideas. It's one thing to come up with something, but something else entirely to connect that to a customer who will pay more than it cost you to develop it. And then there's the possibility that Facebook and others already know about it and are treating it as a Trade Secret. In the latter case your patent may not be worth much at all and could potentially be overturned in court.
I'd suggest thinking carefully about what your business plan would be, who your potential customers are, and how your product would be used by them. Would they license your IP? Would you work as a consultant to implement it on their systems? If the idea is just to "make millions" simply positioning yourself as a gifted developer who independently discovered X could be enough to get your foot in the door of some very high-paying firms. Or to put it another way, you may be worth a good deal more than your patent.
For Universities, policies will vary from place to place so you should consider consulting them directly. In Australia students generally are not required to give up their IP, but can voluntarily do so in return for some royalties and the University footing the bill for patent applications and legal protection of said patent. You'll need to assess for yourself whether the trade-off is worthwhile.
And finally, if you're worried about being scooped by Prof X then I'd strongly advise #1 not telling him and #2 documenting the development of your idea in a way that would be independently verifiable in court if necessary.
New contributor
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
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Let me describe fairly typical practice at reputable US universities. When someone has a patentable idea, the university itself will take over the patent process, paying lawyers and fees. The university will probably be the patent holder of record, but will make arrangements with the actual creator(s) to share any income that results from exploiting the patent.
This can be good or bad, I suppose, but the good part is that the university covers the cost and also provides backup if anyone challenges the patent at any point. This can be very difficult for an individual to do on their own. The bad part is that the patent is probably in the university's name, though that may vary. Another point is that the university may take it upon itself to find ways to monetize the patent if it is awarded. Again, this can be a large expense for an individual.
But one protection for you, a student with an idea, is that if the university is, indeed, reputable, it won't try to steal your idea or let a faculty member steal it.
But faculty at the (reputable) institutions that do a lot of patentable research normally require this (or a similar) process as part of the contract with the faculty member. Such agreements might also be necessary for a student to participate in such work. And there is usually an office, full of lawyers, dedicated to shepherding such work. So a further expectation is that the university is not only reputable, but also large enough to support that office.
And the sharing arrangement may be standardized or, possibly, negotiated, so long as costs can be expected to be covered.
The situation and the rules will also probably vary by a lot in other countries.
For completeness, I'll note that large companies doing important research also tend to have (and require) some similar arrangements with their own researchers.
add a comment |
Let me describe fairly typical practice at reputable US universities. When someone has a patentable idea, the university itself will take over the patent process, paying lawyers and fees. The university will probably be the patent holder of record, but will make arrangements with the actual creator(s) to share any income that results from exploiting the patent.
This can be good or bad, I suppose, but the good part is that the university covers the cost and also provides backup if anyone challenges the patent at any point. This can be very difficult for an individual to do on their own. The bad part is that the patent is probably in the university's name, though that may vary. Another point is that the university may take it upon itself to find ways to monetize the patent if it is awarded. Again, this can be a large expense for an individual.
But one protection for you, a student with an idea, is that if the university is, indeed, reputable, it won't try to steal your idea or let a faculty member steal it.
But faculty at the (reputable) institutions that do a lot of patentable research normally require this (or a similar) process as part of the contract with the faculty member. Such agreements might also be necessary for a student to participate in such work. And there is usually an office, full of lawyers, dedicated to shepherding such work. So a further expectation is that the university is not only reputable, but also large enough to support that office.
And the sharing arrangement may be standardized or, possibly, negotiated, so long as costs can be expected to be covered.
The situation and the rules will also probably vary by a lot in other countries.
For completeness, I'll note that large companies doing important research also tend to have (and require) some similar arrangements with their own researchers.
add a comment |
Let me describe fairly typical practice at reputable US universities. When someone has a patentable idea, the university itself will take over the patent process, paying lawyers and fees. The university will probably be the patent holder of record, but will make arrangements with the actual creator(s) to share any income that results from exploiting the patent.
This can be good or bad, I suppose, but the good part is that the university covers the cost and also provides backup if anyone challenges the patent at any point. This can be very difficult for an individual to do on their own. The bad part is that the patent is probably in the university's name, though that may vary. Another point is that the university may take it upon itself to find ways to monetize the patent if it is awarded. Again, this can be a large expense for an individual.
But one protection for you, a student with an idea, is that if the university is, indeed, reputable, it won't try to steal your idea or let a faculty member steal it.
But faculty at the (reputable) institutions that do a lot of patentable research normally require this (or a similar) process as part of the contract with the faculty member. Such agreements might also be necessary for a student to participate in such work. And there is usually an office, full of lawyers, dedicated to shepherding such work. So a further expectation is that the university is not only reputable, but also large enough to support that office.
And the sharing arrangement may be standardized or, possibly, negotiated, so long as costs can be expected to be covered.
The situation and the rules will also probably vary by a lot in other countries.
For completeness, I'll note that large companies doing important research also tend to have (and require) some similar arrangements with their own researchers.
Let me describe fairly typical practice at reputable US universities. When someone has a patentable idea, the university itself will take over the patent process, paying lawyers and fees. The university will probably be the patent holder of record, but will make arrangements with the actual creator(s) to share any income that results from exploiting the patent.
This can be good or bad, I suppose, but the good part is that the university covers the cost and also provides backup if anyone challenges the patent at any point. This can be very difficult for an individual to do on their own. The bad part is that the patent is probably in the university's name, though that may vary. Another point is that the university may take it upon itself to find ways to monetize the patent if it is awarded. Again, this can be a large expense for an individual.
But one protection for you, a student with an idea, is that if the university is, indeed, reputable, it won't try to steal your idea or let a faculty member steal it.
But faculty at the (reputable) institutions that do a lot of patentable research normally require this (or a similar) process as part of the contract with the faculty member. Such agreements might also be necessary for a student to participate in such work. And there is usually an office, full of lawyers, dedicated to shepherding such work. So a further expectation is that the university is not only reputable, but also large enough to support that office.
And the sharing arrangement may be standardized or, possibly, negotiated, so long as costs can be expected to be covered.
The situation and the rules will also probably vary by a lot in other countries.
For completeness, I'll note that large companies doing important research also tend to have (and require) some similar arrangements with their own researchers.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
BuffyBuffy
75.1k19 gold badges227 silver badges338 bronze badges
75.1k19 gold badges227 silver badges338 bronze badges
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add a comment |
About doing a PhD, before thinking about academics stealing your idea you might want to think about how you are going to publish papers (usually a requirement during the PhD) if you want to keep your idea secret. As far as I know you won't be able to publish anything before the patent is granted, and that could take a few years. It doesn't mean that it's impossible but it might be tricky.
The alternative to the academic route described in Buffy's answer is to create your own start-up first, then develop and patent your idea under the name of your company. This might take a few years and will cost a lot of money indeed. If you can make sure that your idea is viable and really worth millions of dollars, then it's still a sound investment.
The first step would be to consult with a good specialized lawyer who will advise you on how to proceed (for instance inform you about NDAs, you will probably need these). Again, it's worth the expense in order to avoid making mistakes which could easily ruin your business.
add a comment |
About doing a PhD, before thinking about academics stealing your idea you might want to think about how you are going to publish papers (usually a requirement during the PhD) if you want to keep your idea secret. As far as I know you won't be able to publish anything before the patent is granted, and that could take a few years. It doesn't mean that it's impossible but it might be tricky.
The alternative to the academic route described in Buffy's answer is to create your own start-up first, then develop and patent your idea under the name of your company. This might take a few years and will cost a lot of money indeed. If you can make sure that your idea is viable and really worth millions of dollars, then it's still a sound investment.
The first step would be to consult with a good specialized lawyer who will advise you on how to proceed (for instance inform you about NDAs, you will probably need these). Again, it's worth the expense in order to avoid making mistakes which could easily ruin your business.
add a comment |
About doing a PhD, before thinking about academics stealing your idea you might want to think about how you are going to publish papers (usually a requirement during the PhD) if you want to keep your idea secret. As far as I know you won't be able to publish anything before the patent is granted, and that could take a few years. It doesn't mean that it's impossible but it might be tricky.
The alternative to the academic route described in Buffy's answer is to create your own start-up first, then develop and patent your idea under the name of your company. This might take a few years and will cost a lot of money indeed. If you can make sure that your idea is viable and really worth millions of dollars, then it's still a sound investment.
The first step would be to consult with a good specialized lawyer who will advise you on how to proceed (for instance inform you about NDAs, you will probably need these). Again, it's worth the expense in order to avoid making mistakes which could easily ruin your business.
About doing a PhD, before thinking about academics stealing your idea you might want to think about how you are going to publish papers (usually a requirement during the PhD) if you want to keep your idea secret. As far as I know you won't be able to publish anything before the patent is granted, and that could take a few years. It doesn't mean that it's impossible but it might be tricky.
The alternative to the academic route described in Buffy's answer is to create your own start-up first, then develop and patent your idea under the name of your company. This might take a few years and will cost a lot of money indeed. If you can make sure that your idea is viable and really worth millions of dollars, then it's still a sound investment.
The first step would be to consult with a good specialized lawyer who will advise you on how to proceed (for instance inform you about NDAs, you will probably need these). Again, it's worth the expense in order to avoid making mistakes which could easily ruin your business.
answered yesterday
ErwanErwan
6,2581 gold badge13 silver badges31 bronze badges
6,2581 gold badge13 silver badges31 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
What you describe is closer to "scooping" than "patent trolling". But actually it's just theft.
If you truly believe your invention is valuable, then you can patent it yourself. You would need to find a reputable patent lawyer. And you can expect to pay thousands of dollars in fees. (Beware of disreputable patent lawyers.) Plus you will likely need the help of lawyers again to actually collect any money from your patent, as you must sue those who infringe on your patent, or at least threaten to do so.
If you just want credit for your invention, write a paper about it and stick it on arxiv or a similar repository. The arxiv timestamp clearly establishes precedence. That means no one else can subsequently patent the invention -- your work becomes prior art that invalidates any subsequent patent. Sharing your invention like this does not immediately prevent you from patenting it. However, there are time limits. I believe you need to submit a patent within one year of making it public.
Note that your employer may claim ownership of any intellectual property that you create. For example, most universities do this. On the positive side, this means they may pay for the patent. On the negative side, they may claim some or all of the money you get from it.
2
Keep in mind that doing this instantly makes it prior art in Europe. There's no delay.
– JS Lavertu
7 hours ago
add a comment |
What you describe is closer to "scooping" than "patent trolling". But actually it's just theft.
If you truly believe your invention is valuable, then you can patent it yourself. You would need to find a reputable patent lawyer. And you can expect to pay thousands of dollars in fees. (Beware of disreputable patent lawyers.) Plus you will likely need the help of lawyers again to actually collect any money from your patent, as you must sue those who infringe on your patent, or at least threaten to do so.
If you just want credit for your invention, write a paper about it and stick it on arxiv or a similar repository. The arxiv timestamp clearly establishes precedence. That means no one else can subsequently patent the invention -- your work becomes prior art that invalidates any subsequent patent. Sharing your invention like this does not immediately prevent you from patenting it. However, there are time limits. I believe you need to submit a patent within one year of making it public.
Note that your employer may claim ownership of any intellectual property that you create. For example, most universities do this. On the positive side, this means they may pay for the patent. On the negative side, they may claim some or all of the money you get from it.
2
Keep in mind that doing this instantly makes it prior art in Europe. There's no delay.
– JS Lavertu
7 hours ago
add a comment |
What you describe is closer to "scooping" than "patent trolling". But actually it's just theft.
If you truly believe your invention is valuable, then you can patent it yourself. You would need to find a reputable patent lawyer. And you can expect to pay thousands of dollars in fees. (Beware of disreputable patent lawyers.) Plus you will likely need the help of lawyers again to actually collect any money from your patent, as you must sue those who infringe on your patent, or at least threaten to do so.
If you just want credit for your invention, write a paper about it and stick it on arxiv or a similar repository. The arxiv timestamp clearly establishes precedence. That means no one else can subsequently patent the invention -- your work becomes prior art that invalidates any subsequent patent. Sharing your invention like this does not immediately prevent you from patenting it. However, there are time limits. I believe you need to submit a patent within one year of making it public.
Note that your employer may claim ownership of any intellectual property that you create. For example, most universities do this. On the positive side, this means they may pay for the patent. On the negative side, they may claim some or all of the money you get from it.
What you describe is closer to "scooping" than "patent trolling". But actually it's just theft.
If you truly believe your invention is valuable, then you can patent it yourself. You would need to find a reputable patent lawyer. And you can expect to pay thousands of dollars in fees. (Beware of disreputable patent lawyers.) Plus you will likely need the help of lawyers again to actually collect any money from your patent, as you must sue those who infringe on your patent, or at least threaten to do so.
If you just want credit for your invention, write a paper about it and stick it on arxiv or a similar repository. The arxiv timestamp clearly establishes precedence. That means no one else can subsequently patent the invention -- your work becomes prior art that invalidates any subsequent patent. Sharing your invention like this does not immediately prevent you from patenting it. However, there are time limits. I believe you need to submit a patent within one year of making it public.
Note that your employer may claim ownership of any intellectual property that you create. For example, most universities do this. On the positive side, this means they may pay for the patent. On the negative side, they may claim some or all of the money you get from it.
answered 23 hours ago
ThomasThomas
14.9k7 gold badges31 silver badges54 bronze badges
14.9k7 gold badges31 silver badges54 bronze badges
2
Keep in mind that doing this instantly makes it prior art in Europe. There's no delay.
– JS Lavertu
7 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Keep in mind that doing this instantly makes it prior art in Europe. There's no delay.
– JS Lavertu
7 hours ago
2
2
Keep in mind that doing this instantly makes it prior art in Europe. There's no delay.
– JS Lavertu
7 hours ago
Keep in mind that doing this instantly makes it prior art in Europe. There's no delay.
– JS Lavertu
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I was thinking about doing a Ph.D. on it . . . "
I think the first question is for yourself as a person.
Which human environment do you prefer to work in ? The business environment or the academic environment ?
This is the essential question here as people in these two sectors relate and associate in completely different ways.
If you have the urge to impart and receive knowledge freely, are comfortable in situations of psychological trust with young people and not too worldly when it comes to money, maybe a Ph.D. with the right supervisor is a valid consideration. If you go this route, don't expect to be rich. Staff at colleges sometimes make millions from their work but no student does - unless the insights are kept secret and developed later off-campus.
But don't go into a Ph.D. just to experiment/develop an idea you want to commercialize. Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated. For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together. Patent trollers are a natural hazard here but you'll have support from your own company and many patent attorneys will undertake protection work on the understanding of later payment after patents are granted.
New contributor
1
''Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated.'' Unfortunately true.
– Tom
11 hours ago
1
This answer deserves to be accepted.
– BonsaiOak
10 hours ago
1
Basically, you want the university to fund your secret startup company for a few years, in exchange for pretending to be an academic researcher. Most organizations (and the people in them) don't like being on the wrong end what looks like a financial scam, even if it's not actually illegal.
– alephzero
6 hours ago
3
For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector — Objection! There are lots of supportive and nurturing academic environments, and lots of toxic non-academic environments. I'm sorry your academic experience was so negative, but that's not universal.
– JeffE
6 hours ago
1
"these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together" - I have spent a little time (a long while ago) in the private sector, I have several friends who have either recently spent time in the private sector or left academia for the private sector some year ago, and the claim I have quoted above is, to put it mildly, hyperbolic and far from guaranteed
– Yemon Choi
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I was thinking about doing a Ph.D. on it . . . "
I think the first question is for yourself as a person.
Which human environment do you prefer to work in ? The business environment or the academic environment ?
This is the essential question here as people in these two sectors relate and associate in completely different ways.
If you have the urge to impart and receive knowledge freely, are comfortable in situations of psychological trust with young people and not too worldly when it comes to money, maybe a Ph.D. with the right supervisor is a valid consideration. If you go this route, don't expect to be rich. Staff at colleges sometimes make millions from their work but no student does - unless the insights are kept secret and developed later off-campus.
But don't go into a Ph.D. just to experiment/develop an idea you want to commercialize. Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated. For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together. Patent trollers are a natural hazard here but you'll have support from your own company and many patent attorneys will undertake protection work on the understanding of later payment after patents are granted.
New contributor
1
''Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated.'' Unfortunately true.
– Tom
11 hours ago
1
This answer deserves to be accepted.
– BonsaiOak
10 hours ago
1
Basically, you want the university to fund your secret startup company for a few years, in exchange for pretending to be an academic researcher. Most organizations (and the people in them) don't like being on the wrong end what looks like a financial scam, even if it's not actually illegal.
– alephzero
6 hours ago
3
For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector — Objection! There are lots of supportive and nurturing academic environments, and lots of toxic non-academic environments. I'm sorry your academic experience was so negative, but that's not universal.
– JeffE
6 hours ago
1
"these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together" - I have spent a little time (a long while ago) in the private sector, I have several friends who have either recently spent time in the private sector or left academia for the private sector some year ago, and the claim I have quoted above is, to put it mildly, hyperbolic and far from guaranteed
– Yemon Choi
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I was thinking about doing a Ph.D. on it . . . "
I think the first question is for yourself as a person.
Which human environment do you prefer to work in ? The business environment or the academic environment ?
This is the essential question here as people in these two sectors relate and associate in completely different ways.
If you have the urge to impart and receive knowledge freely, are comfortable in situations of psychological trust with young people and not too worldly when it comes to money, maybe a Ph.D. with the right supervisor is a valid consideration. If you go this route, don't expect to be rich. Staff at colleges sometimes make millions from their work but no student does - unless the insights are kept secret and developed later off-campus.
But don't go into a Ph.D. just to experiment/develop an idea you want to commercialize. Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated. For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together. Patent trollers are a natural hazard here but you'll have support from your own company and many patent attorneys will undertake protection work on the understanding of later payment after patents are granted.
New contributor
I was thinking about doing a Ph.D. on it . . . "
I think the first question is for yourself as a person.
Which human environment do you prefer to work in ? The business environment or the academic environment ?
This is the essential question here as people in these two sectors relate and associate in completely different ways.
If you have the urge to impart and receive knowledge freely, are comfortable in situations of psychological trust with young people and not too worldly when it comes to money, maybe a Ph.D. with the right supervisor is a valid consideration. If you go this route, don't expect to be rich. Staff at colleges sometimes make millions from their work but no student does - unless the insights are kept secret and developed later off-campus.
But don't go into a Ph.D. just to experiment/develop an idea you want to commercialize. Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated. For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together. Patent trollers are a natural hazard here but you'll have support from your own company and many patent attorneys will undertake protection work on the understanding of later payment after patents are granted.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 12 hours ago
TrunkTrunk
292 bronze badges
292 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
1
''Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated.'' Unfortunately true.
– Tom
11 hours ago
1
This answer deserves to be accepted.
– BonsaiOak
10 hours ago
1
Basically, you want the university to fund your secret startup company for a few years, in exchange for pretending to be an academic researcher. Most organizations (and the people in them) don't like being on the wrong end what looks like a financial scam, even if it's not actually illegal.
– alephzero
6 hours ago
3
For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector — Objection! There are lots of supportive and nurturing academic environments, and lots of toxic non-academic environments. I'm sorry your academic experience was so negative, but that's not universal.
– JeffE
6 hours ago
1
"these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together" - I have spent a little time (a long while ago) in the private sector, I have several friends who have either recently spent time in the private sector or left academia for the private sector some year ago, and the claim I have quoted above is, to put it mildly, hyperbolic and far from guaranteed
– Yemon Choi
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
1
''Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated.'' Unfortunately true.
– Tom
11 hours ago
1
This answer deserves to be accepted.
– BonsaiOak
10 hours ago
1
Basically, you want the university to fund your secret startup company for a few years, in exchange for pretending to be an academic researcher. Most organizations (and the people in them) don't like being on the wrong end what looks like a financial scam, even if it's not actually illegal.
– alephzero
6 hours ago
3
For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector — Objection! There are lots of supportive and nurturing academic environments, and lots of toxic non-academic environments. I'm sorry your academic experience was so negative, but that's not universal.
– JeffE
6 hours ago
1
"these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together" - I have spent a little time (a long while ago) in the private sector, I have several friends who have either recently spent time in the private sector or left academia for the private sector some year ago, and the claim I have quoted above is, to put it mildly, hyperbolic and far from guaranteed
– Yemon Choi
5 hours ago
1
1
''Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated.'' Unfortunately true.
– Tom
11 hours ago
''Campus life - and the kind of people there, good and bad - will find you out, drain your confidence and leave you feeling socially isolated.'' Unfortunately true.
– Tom
11 hours ago
1
1
This answer deserves to be accepted.
– BonsaiOak
10 hours ago
This answer deserves to be accepted.
– BonsaiOak
10 hours ago
1
1
Basically, you want the university to fund your secret startup company for a few years, in exchange for pretending to be an academic researcher. Most organizations (and the people in them) don't like being on the wrong end what looks like a financial scam, even if it's not actually illegal.
– alephzero
6 hours ago
Basically, you want the university to fund your secret startup company for a few years, in exchange for pretending to be an academic researcher. Most organizations (and the people in them) don't like being on the wrong end what looks like a financial scam, even if it's not actually illegal.
– alephzero
6 hours ago
3
3
For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector — Objection! There are lots of supportive and nurturing academic environments, and lots of toxic non-academic environments. I'm sorry your academic experience was so negative, but that's not universal.
– JeffE
6 hours ago
For the rapport, team-work, thrilling intensity and chillouts - these are the preserve of the private sector — Objection! There are lots of supportive and nurturing academic environments, and lots of toxic non-academic environments. I'm sorry your academic experience was so negative, but that's not universal.
– JeffE
6 hours ago
1
1
"these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together" - I have spent a little time (a long while ago) in the private sector, I have several friends who have either recently spent time in the private sector or left academia for the private sector some year ago, and the claim I have quoted above is, to put it mildly, hyperbolic and far from guaranteed
– Yemon Choi
5 hours ago
"these are the preserve of the private sector where the necessity of making a living fuse people's mind together" - I have spent a little time (a long while ago) in the private sector, I have several friends who have either recently spent time in the private sector or left academia for the private sector some year ago, and the claim I have quoted above is, to put it mildly, hyperbolic and far from guaranteed
– Yemon Choi
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Edit: Sorry, misread question. Salvaging what I can of it.
It's best not to get too carried away with the commercial potential of new ideas. It's one thing to come up with something, but something else entirely to connect that to a customer who will pay more than it cost you to develop it. And then there's the possibility that Facebook and others already know about it and are treating it as a Trade Secret. In the latter case your patent may not be worth much at all and could potentially be overturned in court.
I'd suggest thinking carefully about what your business plan would be, who your potential customers are, and how your product would be used by them. Would they license your IP? Would you work as a consultant to implement it on their systems? If the idea is just to "make millions" simply positioning yourself as a gifted developer who independently discovered X could be enough to get your foot in the door of some very high-paying firms. Or to put it another way, you may be worth a good deal more than your patent.
For Universities, policies will vary from place to place so you should consider consulting them directly. In Australia students generally are not required to give up their IP, but can voluntarily do so in return for some royalties and the University footing the bill for patent applications and legal protection of said patent. You'll need to assess for yourself whether the trade-off is worthwhile.
And finally, if you're worried about being scooped by Prof X then I'd strongly advise #1 not telling him and #2 documenting the development of your idea in a way that would be independently verifiable in court if necessary.
New contributor
add a comment |
Edit: Sorry, misread question. Salvaging what I can of it.
It's best not to get too carried away with the commercial potential of new ideas. It's one thing to come up with something, but something else entirely to connect that to a customer who will pay more than it cost you to develop it. And then there's the possibility that Facebook and others already know about it and are treating it as a Trade Secret. In the latter case your patent may not be worth much at all and could potentially be overturned in court.
I'd suggest thinking carefully about what your business plan would be, who your potential customers are, and how your product would be used by them. Would they license your IP? Would you work as a consultant to implement it on their systems? If the idea is just to "make millions" simply positioning yourself as a gifted developer who independently discovered X could be enough to get your foot in the door of some very high-paying firms. Or to put it another way, you may be worth a good deal more than your patent.
For Universities, policies will vary from place to place so you should consider consulting them directly. In Australia students generally are not required to give up their IP, but can voluntarily do so in return for some royalties and the University footing the bill for patent applications and legal protection of said patent. You'll need to assess for yourself whether the trade-off is worthwhile.
And finally, if you're worried about being scooped by Prof X then I'd strongly advise #1 not telling him and #2 documenting the development of your idea in a way that would be independently verifiable in court if necessary.
New contributor
add a comment |
Edit: Sorry, misread question. Salvaging what I can of it.
It's best not to get too carried away with the commercial potential of new ideas. It's one thing to come up with something, but something else entirely to connect that to a customer who will pay more than it cost you to develop it. And then there's the possibility that Facebook and others already know about it and are treating it as a Trade Secret. In the latter case your patent may not be worth much at all and could potentially be overturned in court.
I'd suggest thinking carefully about what your business plan would be, who your potential customers are, and how your product would be used by them. Would they license your IP? Would you work as a consultant to implement it on their systems? If the idea is just to "make millions" simply positioning yourself as a gifted developer who independently discovered X could be enough to get your foot in the door of some very high-paying firms. Or to put it another way, you may be worth a good deal more than your patent.
For Universities, policies will vary from place to place so you should consider consulting them directly. In Australia students generally are not required to give up their IP, but can voluntarily do so in return for some royalties and the University footing the bill for patent applications and legal protection of said patent. You'll need to assess for yourself whether the trade-off is worthwhile.
And finally, if you're worried about being scooped by Prof X then I'd strongly advise #1 not telling him and #2 documenting the development of your idea in a way that would be independently verifiable in court if necessary.
New contributor
Edit: Sorry, misread question. Salvaging what I can of it.
It's best not to get too carried away with the commercial potential of new ideas. It's one thing to come up with something, but something else entirely to connect that to a customer who will pay more than it cost you to develop it. And then there's the possibility that Facebook and others already know about it and are treating it as a Trade Secret. In the latter case your patent may not be worth much at all and could potentially be overturned in court.
I'd suggest thinking carefully about what your business plan would be, who your potential customers are, and how your product would be used by them. Would they license your IP? Would you work as a consultant to implement it on their systems? If the idea is just to "make millions" simply positioning yourself as a gifted developer who independently discovered X could be enough to get your foot in the door of some very high-paying firms. Or to put it another way, you may be worth a good deal more than your patent.
For Universities, policies will vary from place to place so you should consider consulting them directly. In Australia students generally are not required to give up their IP, but can voluntarily do so in return for some royalties and the University footing the bill for patent applications and legal protection of said patent. You'll need to assess for yourself whether the trade-off is worthwhile.
And finally, if you're worried about being scooped by Prof X then I'd strongly advise #1 not telling him and #2 documenting the development of your idea in a way that would be independently verifiable in court if necessary.
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
New contributor
answered 3 hours ago
Matt ThompsonMatt Thompson
112 bronze badges
112 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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25
I think the usage here isn't the standard one. Patent trolls normally buy up existing patents and then sue people for infringement on shaky (or not shaky) grounds. I think the intention here is to imply someone stealing the idea and patenting it themselves.
– Buffy
yesterday
4
If you did a PhD on the topic, in many institutions that would give them a claim on whatever you produce (sometimes giving you only minority royalties even if sold), whether you try to patent it or have them patent it. Policy/agreements vary by institution. Ultimately the strategy you should take for monetizing or defending intellectual property will be beyond the scope of this stack, as it requires a deep familiarity with your local laws, market for IP in that industry, etc. Many Universities have IP development/grant programs, so you might consider checking what they offer. YMMV
– BrianH
yesterday
5
"Theft of intellectual property" would be a more accurate label, not "trolling", etc.
– paul garrett
22 hours ago
9
The story told sound completely implausible to me. If Facebook is far enough along development of something patentable that a description over lunch would allow someone to scoop it, then they would have already patented it.
– Tobias Kildetoft
20 hours ago
3
If X is patenting something that someone from Facebook told them at lunch has been invented at Facebook, then either 1. the blabbermouth, 2. the person that failed to patent it (if so) or 3. prof X are in for a very big surprise, possibly all three. I am surprised that such information about a vulnerable invention would go out without an NDA. OP may want to inform themselves about the IP policy of their academic institution. It is probably not as powerful as FB, but will still be interested in IP not getting violated.
– Captain Emacs
19 hours ago