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Integral from infinity to infinity
What is Leibnitz rule for a double integral?Can a substitution cause a convergent definite integral to diverge?Weird computation error when using fnInt (numerical integral) on TI-84 PlusIs there a change-of-variables solution for integrals from negative infinity to a constant?What's exactly the deal with differentials? (Confessions of a desperate calculus student)Quadrature integration: calculating the weightsDoes this improper integral converge or is it a trick question?Check whether $p(x,y) = xye^-x-y$ is a joint density functionImproper Integral Convergence involving $e^x$Weird integrals
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
My physics professor today wrote on the blackboard:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = 0 $$
for every function $f$.
And the proof he gave was:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = int_infty^a f(x) dx + int_a^infty f(x)dx = - int_a^infty f(x) dx + int_a^inftyf(x)dx = 0$$
However I'm still not convinced, for me an integral from infinity to infinity has no meaning. Therefore, what I'm asking is: does the above equations make sense? If not, are there cases where they do make sense? I'm thinking about functions that converge to 0 in $+infty$.
EDIT: Actually, the function f considered was a density, i.e.:
$$ int_-infty^+infty f(x)dx = 1 $$
and $f(x) geq 0$ for all $x$.
integration
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My physics professor today wrote on the blackboard:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = 0 $$
for every function $f$.
And the proof he gave was:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = int_infty^a f(x) dx + int_a^infty f(x)dx = - int_a^infty f(x) dx + int_a^inftyf(x)dx = 0$$
However I'm still not convinced, for me an integral from infinity to infinity has no meaning. Therefore, what I'm asking is: does the above equations make sense? If not, are there cases where they do make sense? I'm thinking about functions that converge to 0 in $+infty$.
EDIT: Actually, the function f considered was a density, i.e.:
$$ int_-infty^+infty f(x)dx = 1 $$
and $f(x) geq 0$ for all $x$.
integration
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Not much IMHO. $$
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
8 hours ago
2
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I hope your professor meant this as a joke. Did he (or she) actually go on to use this result in an argument?
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
8 hours ago
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How can the integral be 0 and 1 at the same time?
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
8 hours ago
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@copper.hat one integral is from -infinity to infinity, the other one is from +infinity to +infinity
$endgroup$
– Victor
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see. It is a bit meaningless. I would not spend too much time pondering it. It is like $int_a^a$ where $a$ is finite.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My physics professor today wrote on the blackboard:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = 0 $$
for every function $f$.
And the proof he gave was:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = int_infty^a f(x) dx + int_a^infty f(x)dx = - int_a^infty f(x) dx + int_a^inftyf(x)dx = 0$$
However I'm still not convinced, for me an integral from infinity to infinity has no meaning. Therefore, what I'm asking is: does the above equations make sense? If not, are there cases where they do make sense? I'm thinking about functions that converge to 0 in $+infty$.
EDIT: Actually, the function f considered was a density, i.e.:
$$ int_-infty^+infty f(x)dx = 1 $$
and $f(x) geq 0$ for all $x$.
integration
$endgroup$
My physics professor today wrote on the blackboard:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = 0 $$
for every function $f$.
And the proof he gave was:
$$ int_infty^infty f(x) dx = int_infty^a f(x) dx + int_a^infty f(x)dx = - int_a^infty f(x) dx + int_a^inftyf(x)dx = 0$$
However I'm still not convinced, for me an integral from infinity to infinity has no meaning. Therefore, what I'm asking is: does the above equations make sense? If not, are there cases where they do make sense? I'm thinking about functions that converge to 0 in $+infty$.
EDIT: Actually, the function f considered was a density, i.e.:
$$ int_-infty^+infty f(x)dx = 1 $$
and $f(x) geq 0$ for all $x$.
integration
integration
edited 5 hours ago
Victor
asked 8 hours ago
VictorVictor
777 bronze badges
777 bronze badges
4
$begingroup$
Not much IMHO. $$
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I hope your professor meant this as a joke. Did he (or she) actually go on to use this result in an argument?
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
How can the integral be 0 and 1 at the same time?
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@copper.hat one integral is from -infinity to infinity, the other one is from +infinity to +infinity
$endgroup$
– Victor
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see. It is a bit meaningless. I would not spend too much time pondering it. It is like $int_a^a$ where $a$ is finite.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
Not much IMHO. $$
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I hope your professor meant this as a joke. Did he (or she) actually go on to use this result in an argument?
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
How can the integral be 0 and 1 at the same time?
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@copper.hat one integral is from -infinity to infinity, the other one is from +infinity to +infinity
$endgroup$
– Victor
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see. It is a bit meaningless. I would not spend too much time pondering it. It is like $int_a^a$ where $a$ is finite.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
7 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Not much IMHO. $$
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not much IMHO. $$
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
I hope your professor meant this as a joke. Did he (or she) actually go on to use this result in an argument?
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I hope your professor meant this as a joke. Did he (or she) actually go on to use this result in an argument?
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
How can the integral be 0 and 1 at the same time?
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
How can the integral be 0 and 1 at the same time?
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@copper.hat one integral is from -infinity to infinity, the other one is from +infinity to +infinity
$endgroup$
– Victor
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@copper.hat one integral is from -infinity to infinity, the other one is from +infinity to +infinity
$endgroup$
– Victor
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see. It is a bit meaningless. I would not spend too much time pondering it. It is like $int_a^a$ where $a$ is finite.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see. It is a bit meaningless. I would not spend too much time pondering it. It is like $int_a^a$ where $a$ is finite.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
This is not necessarily true. Take the following example;
$$int_a^2afrac1xmathrmdx=[ln]_a^2a=ln(2)$$
If we take $atoinfty$ then the integral becomes
$$int_infty^inftyfrac1xmathrmdx=ln(2)$$
as the integral is constant for all $ainmathbbR$. What I guess your professor meant was that
$$lim_atoinftyint_a^a f(x)mathrmdx=0$$
which is trivially true as the LHS is constantly zero.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An improper integral with an endpoint of $infty$ means a limit of proper integrals where the endpoint approaches $infty$. Thus a reasonable definition of
$int_infty^infty f(x); dx$ would be
$$ int_infty^infty f(x); dx = lim_a, b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx $$
This is $0$ if and only if $int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges for some $a$.
EDIT: If the double limit is $0$, there is $N$ such that
$left|int_a^b f(x); dxright| < 1$ for all $N < a < b$.
For any $epsilon > 0$ there is $M > N$ such that for $b, c > M$,
$$ left|int_b^c f(x); dx right| = left| int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right|< epsilon$$
and this implies that $lim_b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx$ exists, i.e.
$int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges.
Conversely, if $int_a^infty f(x); dx = L$ converges, then for any $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x); dx - Lright| < epsilon/2$ whenever $b > N$. Then if $b > N$ and $c > N$,
$$ left| int_b^c f(x); dxright| = left|int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right| < epsilon $$
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$begingroup$
could you provide more details on the condition $int_a^infty f(x)dx$ converges for some $a$ is a IFF condition
$endgroup$
– Victor
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would you define $a,btoinfty$ because as I have shown, a suitably chosen $b(=2a)$ causes the integral to remain non-zero.
$endgroup$
– Peter Foreman
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman In the usual way: the limit is $L$ if for every $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that for all $a>N$ and $b > N$, $left| int_a^b f(x); dx - L right| < epsilon$. In your example the limit does not exist.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As has been pointed out by other answers, this is not always true because the symbol $infty$ can hide many things, even if we work with the extended reals. The actual meaning of the $infty$ is a limiting process as a certain variable becomes arbitrarily large. The upper and lower limits in the $$int_a^b f(x)mathrm d x$$ however may approach $infty$ at different rates, and this is the key point. Your professor's argument works only when $a$ and $b$ approach infinity equally fast, or in other words, when they are of equal order at infinity. In particular it is always valid if $a=b.$
So what about your professor's "proof"? Well, the ambiguity should now be obvious -- he uses the same symbol $infty$ for things that may behave differently. I think it's safe to assume he's thinking only of the variables are of equal order at infinity. Otherwise his proof breaks down since $infty-infty$ can be anything otherwise.
PS. However, you say an integral from $infty$ to $infty$ has no meaning to you. Well, I see you're thinking of ordering of the reals here. But note that we're not just dealing with the reals here, but the extended reals. As explained above, the best way to think of it is to think of the limits of the integral as approaching infinity at (not necessarily equal rates). Then it's easy to make sense of it. Another way may be to think of the one-point compactification of the real axis.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Peter Foreman mentioned, there are some occasions where you will get an integral of this form, however the exact integral does matter. Firstly visualise the error function:
$$operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^xe^-t^2dt$$
notice that:
$$lim_xto 0operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^0e^-t^2dt$$
Normally we can visualise an integral as area, but in this form it does not make sense since the range over which the area found $to0$. The most obvious case when this integral is zero, no matter the function, would be when both the bounds are equal as the range of the integral is then zero. Overall, it comes down to notation and making sure the bounds are properly defined.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
This is not necessarily true. Take the following example;
$$int_a^2afrac1xmathrmdx=[ln]_a^2a=ln(2)$$
If we take $atoinfty$ then the integral becomes
$$int_infty^inftyfrac1xmathrmdx=ln(2)$$
as the integral is constant for all $ainmathbbR$. What I guess your professor meant was that
$$lim_atoinftyint_a^a f(x)mathrmdx=0$$
which is trivially true as the LHS is constantly zero.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is not necessarily true. Take the following example;
$$int_a^2afrac1xmathrmdx=[ln]_a^2a=ln(2)$$
If we take $atoinfty$ then the integral becomes
$$int_infty^inftyfrac1xmathrmdx=ln(2)$$
as the integral is constant for all $ainmathbbR$. What I guess your professor meant was that
$$lim_atoinftyint_a^a f(x)mathrmdx=0$$
which is trivially true as the LHS is constantly zero.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is not necessarily true. Take the following example;
$$int_a^2afrac1xmathrmdx=[ln]_a^2a=ln(2)$$
If we take $atoinfty$ then the integral becomes
$$int_infty^inftyfrac1xmathrmdx=ln(2)$$
as the integral is constant for all $ainmathbbR$. What I guess your professor meant was that
$$lim_atoinftyint_a^a f(x)mathrmdx=0$$
which is trivially true as the LHS is constantly zero.
$endgroup$
This is not necessarily true. Take the following example;
$$int_a^2afrac1xmathrmdx=[ln]_a^2a=ln(2)$$
If we take $atoinfty$ then the integral becomes
$$int_infty^inftyfrac1xmathrmdx=ln(2)$$
as the integral is constant for all $ainmathbbR$. What I guess your professor meant was that
$$lim_atoinftyint_a^a f(x)mathrmdx=0$$
which is trivially true as the LHS is constantly zero.
answered 8 hours ago
Peter ForemanPeter Foreman
11k1 gold badge4 silver badges26 bronze badges
11k1 gold badge4 silver badges26 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An improper integral with an endpoint of $infty$ means a limit of proper integrals where the endpoint approaches $infty$. Thus a reasonable definition of
$int_infty^infty f(x); dx$ would be
$$ int_infty^infty f(x); dx = lim_a, b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx $$
This is $0$ if and only if $int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges for some $a$.
EDIT: If the double limit is $0$, there is $N$ such that
$left|int_a^b f(x); dxright| < 1$ for all $N < a < b$.
For any $epsilon > 0$ there is $M > N$ such that for $b, c > M$,
$$ left|int_b^c f(x); dx right| = left| int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right|< epsilon$$
and this implies that $lim_b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx$ exists, i.e.
$int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges.
Conversely, if $int_a^infty f(x); dx = L$ converges, then for any $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x); dx - Lright| < epsilon/2$ whenever $b > N$. Then if $b > N$ and $c > N$,
$$ left| int_b^c f(x); dxright| = left|int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right| < epsilon $$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
could you provide more details on the condition $int_a^infty f(x)dx$ converges for some $a$ is a IFF condition
$endgroup$
– Victor
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would you define $a,btoinfty$ because as I have shown, a suitably chosen $b(=2a)$ causes the integral to remain non-zero.
$endgroup$
– Peter Foreman
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman In the usual way: the limit is $L$ if for every $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that for all $a>N$ and $b > N$, $left| int_a^b f(x); dx - L right| < epsilon$. In your example the limit does not exist.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An improper integral with an endpoint of $infty$ means a limit of proper integrals where the endpoint approaches $infty$. Thus a reasonable definition of
$int_infty^infty f(x); dx$ would be
$$ int_infty^infty f(x); dx = lim_a, b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx $$
This is $0$ if and only if $int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges for some $a$.
EDIT: If the double limit is $0$, there is $N$ such that
$left|int_a^b f(x); dxright| < 1$ for all $N < a < b$.
For any $epsilon > 0$ there is $M > N$ such that for $b, c > M$,
$$ left|int_b^c f(x); dx right| = left| int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right|< epsilon$$
and this implies that $lim_b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx$ exists, i.e.
$int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges.
Conversely, if $int_a^infty f(x); dx = L$ converges, then for any $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x); dx - Lright| < epsilon/2$ whenever $b > N$. Then if $b > N$ and $c > N$,
$$ left| int_b^c f(x); dxright| = left|int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right| < epsilon $$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
could you provide more details on the condition $int_a^infty f(x)dx$ converges for some $a$ is a IFF condition
$endgroup$
– Victor
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would you define $a,btoinfty$ because as I have shown, a suitably chosen $b(=2a)$ causes the integral to remain non-zero.
$endgroup$
– Peter Foreman
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman In the usual way: the limit is $L$ if for every $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that for all $a>N$ and $b > N$, $left| int_a^b f(x); dx - L right| < epsilon$. In your example the limit does not exist.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An improper integral with an endpoint of $infty$ means a limit of proper integrals where the endpoint approaches $infty$. Thus a reasonable definition of
$int_infty^infty f(x); dx$ would be
$$ int_infty^infty f(x); dx = lim_a, b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx $$
This is $0$ if and only if $int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges for some $a$.
EDIT: If the double limit is $0$, there is $N$ such that
$left|int_a^b f(x); dxright| < 1$ for all $N < a < b$.
For any $epsilon > 0$ there is $M > N$ such that for $b, c > M$,
$$ left|int_b^c f(x); dx right| = left| int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right|< epsilon$$
and this implies that $lim_b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx$ exists, i.e.
$int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges.
Conversely, if $int_a^infty f(x); dx = L$ converges, then for any $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x); dx - Lright| < epsilon/2$ whenever $b > N$. Then if $b > N$ and $c > N$,
$$ left| int_b^c f(x); dxright| = left|int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right| < epsilon $$
$endgroup$
An improper integral with an endpoint of $infty$ means a limit of proper integrals where the endpoint approaches $infty$. Thus a reasonable definition of
$int_infty^infty f(x); dx$ would be
$$ int_infty^infty f(x); dx = lim_a, b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx $$
This is $0$ if and only if $int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges for some $a$.
EDIT: If the double limit is $0$, there is $N$ such that
$left|int_a^b f(x); dxright| < 1$ for all $N < a < b$.
For any $epsilon > 0$ there is $M > N$ such that for $b, c > M$,
$$ left|int_b^c f(x); dx right| = left| int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right|< epsilon$$
and this implies that $lim_b to infty int_a^b f(x); dx$ exists, i.e.
$int_a^infty f(x); dx$ converges.
Conversely, if $int_a^infty f(x); dx = L$ converges, then for any $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x); dx - Lright| < epsilon/2$ whenever $b > N$. Then if $b > N$ and $c > N$,
$$ left| int_b^c f(x); dxright| = left|int_a^c f(x); dx - int_a^b f(x); dx right| < epsilon $$
edited 2 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Robert IsraelRobert Israel
340k23 gold badges233 silver badges492 bronze badges
340k23 gold badges233 silver badges492 bronze badges
$begingroup$
could you provide more details on the condition $int_a^infty f(x)dx$ converges for some $a$ is a IFF condition
$endgroup$
– Victor
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would you define $a,btoinfty$ because as I have shown, a suitably chosen $b(=2a)$ causes the integral to remain non-zero.
$endgroup$
– Peter Foreman
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman In the usual way: the limit is $L$ if for every $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that for all $a>N$ and $b > N$, $left| int_a^b f(x); dx - L right| < epsilon$. In your example the limit does not exist.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
could you provide more details on the condition $int_a^infty f(x)dx$ converges for some $a$ is a IFF condition
$endgroup$
– Victor
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would you define $a,btoinfty$ because as I have shown, a suitably chosen $b(=2a)$ causes the integral to remain non-zero.
$endgroup$
– Peter Foreman
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman In the usual way: the limit is $L$ if for every $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that for all $a>N$ and $b > N$, $left| int_a^b f(x); dx - L right| < epsilon$. In your example the limit does not exist.
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
could you provide more details on the condition $int_a^infty f(x)dx$ converges for some $a$ is a IFF condition
$endgroup$
– Victor
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
could you provide more details on the condition $int_a^infty f(x)dx$ converges for some $a$ is a IFF condition
$endgroup$
– Victor
5 hours ago
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How would you define $a,btoinfty$ because as I have shown, a suitably chosen $b(=2a)$ causes the integral to remain non-zero.
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– Peter Foreman
5 hours ago
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How would you define $a,btoinfty$ because as I have shown, a suitably chosen $b(=2a)$ causes the integral to remain non-zero.
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– Peter Foreman
5 hours ago
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@PeterForeman In the usual way: the limit is $L$ if for every $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that for all $a>N$ and $b > N$, $left| int_a^b f(x); dx - L right| < epsilon$. In your example the limit does not exist.
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– Robert Israel
2 hours ago
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@PeterForeman In the usual way: the limit is $L$ if for every $epsilon > 0$ there is $N$ such that for all $a>N$ and $b > N$, $left| int_a^b f(x); dx - L right| < epsilon$. In your example the limit does not exist.
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– Robert Israel
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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As has been pointed out by other answers, this is not always true because the symbol $infty$ can hide many things, even if we work with the extended reals. The actual meaning of the $infty$ is a limiting process as a certain variable becomes arbitrarily large. The upper and lower limits in the $$int_a^b f(x)mathrm d x$$ however may approach $infty$ at different rates, and this is the key point. Your professor's argument works only when $a$ and $b$ approach infinity equally fast, or in other words, when they are of equal order at infinity. In particular it is always valid if $a=b.$
So what about your professor's "proof"? Well, the ambiguity should now be obvious -- he uses the same symbol $infty$ for things that may behave differently. I think it's safe to assume he's thinking only of the variables are of equal order at infinity. Otherwise his proof breaks down since $infty-infty$ can be anything otherwise.
PS. However, you say an integral from $infty$ to $infty$ has no meaning to you. Well, I see you're thinking of ordering of the reals here. But note that we're not just dealing with the reals here, but the extended reals. As explained above, the best way to think of it is to think of the limits of the integral as approaching infinity at (not necessarily equal rates). Then it's easy to make sense of it. Another way may be to think of the one-point compactification of the real axis.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
As has been pointed out by other answers, this is not always true because the symbol $infty$ can hide many things, even if we work with the extended reals. The actual meaning of the $infty$ is a limiting process as a certain variable becomes arbitrarily large. The upper and lower limits in the $$int_a^b f(x)mathrm d x$$ however may approach $infty$ at different rates, and this is the key point. Your professor's argument works only when $a$ and $b$ approach infinity equally fast, or in other words, when they are of equal order at infinity. In particular it is always valid if $a=b.$
So what about your professor's "proof"? Well, the ambiguity should now be obvious -- he uses the same symbol $infty$ for things that may behave differently. I think it's safe to assume he's thinking only of the variables are of equal order at infinity. Otherwise his proof breaks down since $infty-infty$ can be anything otherwise.
PS. However, you say an integral from $infty$ to $infty$ has no meaning to you. Well, I see you're thinking of ordering of the reals here. But note that we're not just dealing with the reals here, but the extended reals. As explained above, the best way to think of it is to think of the limits of the integral as approaching infinity at (not necessarily equal rates). Then it's easy to make sense of it. Another way may be to think of the one-point compactification of the real axis.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
As has been pointed out by other answers, this is not always true because the symbol $infty$ can hide many things, even if we work with the extended reals. The actual meaning of the $infty$ is a limiting process as a certain variable becomes arbitrarily large. The upper and lower limits in the $$int_a^b f(x)mathrm d x$$ however may approach $infty$ at different rates, and this is the key point. Your professor's argument works only when $a$ and $b$ approach infinity equally fast, or in other words, when they are of equal order at infinity. In particular it is always valid if $a=b.$
So what about your professor's "proof"? Well, the ambiguity should now be obvious -- he uses the same symbol $infty$ for things that may behave differently. I think it's safe to assume he's thinking only of the variables are of equal order at infinity. Otherwise his proof breaks down since $infty-infty$ can be anything otherwise.
PS. However, you say an integral from $infty$ to $infty$ has no meaning to you. Well, I see you're thinking of ordering of the reals here. But note that we're not just dealing with the reals here, but the extended reals. As explained above, the best way to think of it is to think of the limits of the integral as approaching infinity at (not necessarily equal rates). Then it's easy to make sense of it. Another way may be to think of the one-point compactification of the real axis.
$endgroup$
As has been pointed out by other answers, this is not always true because the symbol $infty$ can hide many things, even if we work with the extended reals. The actual meaning of the $infty$ is a limiting process as a certain variable becomes arbitrarily large. The upper and lower limits in the $$int_a^b f(x)mathrm d x$$ however may approach $infty$ at different rates, and this is the key point. Your professor's argument works only when $a$ and $b$ approach infinity equally fast, or in other words, when they are of equal order at infinity. In particular it is always valid if $a=b.$
So what about your professor's "proof"? Well, the ambiguity should now be obvious -- he uses the same symbol $infty$ for things that may behave differently. I think it's safe to assume he's thinking only of the variables are of equal order at infinity. Otherwise his proof breaks down since $infty-infty$ can be anything otherwise.
PS. However, you say an integral from $infty$ to $infty$ has no meaning to you. Well, I see you're thinking of ordering of the reals here. But note that we're not just dealing with the reals here, but the extended reals. As explained above, the best way to think of it is to think of the limits of the integral as approaching infinity at (not necessarily equal rates). Then it's easy to make sense of it. Another way may be to think of the one-point compactification of the real axis.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
AllawonderAllawonder
2,9728 silver badges18 bronze badges
2,9728 silver badges18 bronze badges
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As Peter Foreman mentioned, there are some occasions where you will get an integral of this form, however the exact integral does matter. Firstly visualise the error function:
$$operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^xe^-t^2dt$$
notice that:
$$lim_xto 0operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^0e^-t^2dt$$
Normally we can visualise an integral as area, but in this form it does not make sense since the range over which the area found $to0$. The most obvious case when this integral is zero, no matter the function, would be when both the bounds are equal as the range of the integral is then zero. Overall, it comes down to notation and making sure the bounds are properly defined.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Peter Foreman mentioned, there are some occasions where you will get an integral of this form, however the exact integral does matter. Firstly visualise the error function:
$$operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^xe^-t^2dt$$
notice that:
$$lim_xto 0operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^0e^-t^2dt$$
Normally we can visualise an integral as area, but in this form it does not make sense since the range over which the area found $to0$. The most obvious case when this integral is zero, no matter the function, would be when both the bounds are equal as the range of the integral is then zero. Overall, it comes down to notation and making sure the bounds are properly defined.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Peter Foreman mentioned, there are some occasions where you will get an integral of this form, however the exact integral does matter. Firstly visualise the error function:
$$operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^xe^-t^2dt$$
notice that:
$$lim_xto 0operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^0e^-t^2dt$$
Normally we can visualise an integral as area, but in this form it does not make sense since the range over which the area found $to0$. The most obvious case when this integral is zero, no matter the function, would be when both the bounds are equal as the range of the integral is then zero. Overall, it comes down to notation and making sure the bounds are properly defined.
$endgroup$
As Peter Foreman mentioned, there are some occasions where you will get an integral of this form, however the exact integral does matter. Firstly visualise the error function:
$$operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^xe^-t^2dt$$
notice that:
$$lim_xto 0operatornameerf(x)=frac2sqrtpiint_0^0e^-t^2dt$$
Normally we can visualise an integral as area, but in this form it does not make sense since the range over which the area found $to0$. The most obvious case when this integral is zero, no matter the function, would be when both the bounds are equal as the range of the integral is then zero. Overall, it comes down to notation and making sure the bounds are properly defined.
answered 8 hours ago
Henry LeeHenry Lee
2,8421 gold badge4 silver badges19 bronze badges
2,8421 gold badge4 silver badges19 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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4
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Not much IMHO. $$
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– José Carlos Santos
8 hours ago
2
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I hope your professor meant this as a joke. Did he (or she) actually go on to use this result in an argument?
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– Ethan Bolker
8 hours ago
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How can the integral be 0 and 1 at the same time?
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– copper.hat
8 hours ago
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@copper.hat one integral is from -infinity to infinity, the other one is from +infinity to +infinity
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– Victor
8 hours ago
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I see. It is a bit meaningless. I would not spend too much time pondering it. It is like $int_a^a$ where $a$ is finite.
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– copper.hat
7 hours ago