Does a scale have more than seven chords?A chord is three notes? What do you call just two notes?Why does the scale have seven (or five) notes? Why not six?What exactly is the difference between arranging a piece of music and composing it?How to figure out which scale to play a specific chord in?Need some help with perfect fifth power chordsWhy is the hexatonic scale that can be derived via a chain of perfect fifths so little-known?Music theory combinatorics trying to find all 'types' of set note combinations?Odd and Even Harmonic TheoryHow to name more than seven scale tones?Are there historical references that show that “diatonic” is a version of 'di-tonic' meaning 'two tonics'?Why is the vi chord so popular?

Can U.S. Tax Forms Be Legally HTMLified?

You have (3^2 + 2^3 + 2^2) Guesses Left. Figure out the Last one

Is the term 'open source' a trademark?

Extreme flexible working hours: how to control people and activities?

Does a scale have more than seven chords?

How to handle self harm scars on the arm in work environment?

Wooden cooking layout

Pre-1972 sci-fi short story or novel: alien(?) tunnel where people try new moves and get destroyed if they're not the correct ones

How to communicate to my GM that not being allowed to use stealth isn't fun for me?

Mathematically, why does mass matrix / load vector lumping work?

How do governments keep track of their issued currency?

Why didn't Voldemort recognize that Dumbledore was affected by his curse?

How can this tool find out registered domains from an IP?

Cascading Switches. Will it affect performance?

Are there any important biographies of nobodies?

Need feedback - Can the composition/colors of this design be fixed if something is lacking or is not a better fit?

How to tell your grandparent to not come to fetch you with their car?

What's up with this leaf?

Meaning of 'lose their grip on the groins of their followers'

What is the purpose of the goat for Azazel, as opposed to conventional offerings?

Thread Pool C++ Implementation

How to trick the reader into thinking they're following a redshirt instead of the protagonist?

Zeros of the Hadamard product of holomorphic functions

Alternate way of computing the probability of being dealt a 13 card hand with 3 kings given that you have been dealt 2 kings



Does a scale have more than seven chords?


A chord is three notes? What do you call just two notes?Why does the scale have seven (or five) notes? Why not six?What exactly is the difference between arranging a piece of music and composing it?How to figure out which scale to play a specific chord in?Need some help with perfect fifth power chordsWhy is the hexatonic scale that can be derived via a chain of perfect fifths so little-known?Music theory combinatorics trying to find all 'types' of set note combinations?Odd and Even Harmonic TheoryHow to name more than seven scale tones?Are there historical references that show that “diatonic” is a version of 'di-tonic' meaning 'two tonics'?Why is the vi chord so popular?













2















So I was watching this video and he goes to show that there's 48 (!) chords in the double harmonic major. Why so many? I thought there were only seven diatonic chords. Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?



In math it's under combinatorics. so combinations with no regards to order:




n!/(r!(n-r)!)




where n is number of things to choose from, and r is how much we take from it. If I plug it in it's 7!/(3!(7-3)!) = 35 different types of 3-note chords per scale. He says 48 because he's adding some four note chords as well. But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?










share|improve this question
























  • I think you meant to ask "...seven diatonic tertian triads..." otherwise you could have lots of different counts depending on what set of chords you want in the set... and what topo morto said about heptatonic scales.

    – Michael Curtis
    8 hours ago







  • 2





    Consider the chromatic scale. How many chords then? And we may only be talking triads...

    – Tim
    8 hours ago











  • You don't need an exotic scale to get more than seven 3-note chords. Consider e.g. sus2 and sus4 chords.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    7 hours ago











  • Readers of this question may be interested in Jay Hook's article "Why Are There Twenty-Nine Tetrachords? A Tutorial on Combinatorics and Enumeration in Music Theory."

    – Richard
    7 hours ago












  • If you include 7ths, 9th, 11ths and 13ths there are quite a bit. But their function from a harmony perspective may not all be independent.

    – ggcg
    6 hours ago















2















So I was watching this video and he goes to show that there's 48 (!) chords in the double harmonic major. Why so many? I thought there were only seven diatonic chords. Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?



In math it's under combinatorics. so combinations with no regards to order:




n!/(r!(n-r)!)




where n is number of things to choose from, and r is how much we take from it. If I plug it in it's 7!/(3!(7-3)!) = 35 different types of 3-note chords per scale. He says 48 because he's adding some four note chords as well. But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?










share|improve this question
























  • I think you meant to ask "...seven diatonic tertian triads..." otherwise you could have lots of different counts depending on what set of chords you want in the set... and what topo morto said about heptatonic scales.

    – Michael Curtis
    8 hours ago







  • 2





    Consider the chromatic scale. How many chords then? And we may only be talking triads...

    – Tim
    8 hours ago











  • You don't need an exotic scale to get more than seven 3-note chords. Consider e.g. sus2 and sus4 chords.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    7 hours ago











  • Readers of this question may be interested in Jay Hook's article "Why Are There Twenty-Nine Tetrachords? A Tutorial on Combinatorics and Enumeration in Music Theory."

    – Richard
    7 hours ago












  • If you include 7ths, 9th, 11ths and 13ths there are quite a bit. But their function from a harmony perspective may not all be independent.

    – ggcg
    6 hours ago













2












2








2








So I was watching this video and he goes to show that there's 48 (!) chords in the double harmonic major. Why so many? I thought there were only seven diatonic chords. Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?



In math it's under combinatorics. so combinations with no regards to order:




n!/(r!(n-r)!)




where n is number of things to choose from, and r is how much we take from it. If I plug it in it's 7!/(3!(7-3)!) = 35 different types of 3-note chords per scale. He says 48 because he's adding some four note chords as well. But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?










share|improve this question
















So I was watching this video and he goes to show that there's 48 (!) chords in the double harmonic major. Why so many? I thought there were only seven diatonic chords. Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?



In math it's under combinatorics. so combinations with no regards to order:




n!/(r!(n-r)!)




where n is number of things to choose from, and r is how much we take from it. If I plug it in it's 7!/(3!(7-3)!) = 35 different types of 3-note chords per scale. He says 48 because he's adding some four note chords as well. But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?







theory chords scales






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago







foreyez

















asked 8 hours ago









foreyezforeyez

5,88542793




5,88542793












  • I think you meant to ask "...seven diatonic tertian triads..." otherwise you could have lots of different counts depending on what set of chords you want in the set... and what topo morto said about heptatonic scales.

    – Michael Curtis
    8 hours ago







  • 2





    Consider the chromatic scale. How many chords then? And we may only be talking triads...

    – Tim
    8 hours ago











  • You don't need an exotic scale to get more than seven 3-note chords. Consider e.g. sus2 and sus4 chords.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    7 hours ago











  • Readers of this question may be interested in Jay Hook's article "Why Are There Twenty-Nine Tetrachords? A Tutorial on Combinatorics and Enumeration in Music Theory."

    – Richard
    7 hours ago












  • If you include 7ths, 9th, 11ths and 13ths there are quite a bit. But their function from a harmony perspective may not all be independent.

    – ggcg
    6 hours ago

















  • I think you meant to ask "...seven diatonic tertian triads..." otherwise you could have lots of different counts depending on what set of chords you want in the set... and what topo morto said about heptatonic scales.

    – Michael Curtis
    8 hours ago







  • 2





    Consider the chromatic scale. How many chords then? And we may only be talking triads...

    – Tim
    8 hours ago











  • You don't need an exotic scale to get more than seven 3-note chords. Consider e.g. sus2 and sus4 chords.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    7 hours ago











  • Readers of this question may be interested in Jay Hook's article "Why Are There Twenty-Nine Tetrachords? A Tutorial on Combinatorics and Enumeration in Music Theory."

    – Richard
    7 hours ago












  • If you include 7ths, 9th, 11ths and 13ths there are quite a bit. But their function from a harmony perspective may not all be independent.

    – ggcg
    6 hours ago
















I think you meant to ask "...seven diatonic tertian triads..." otherwise you could have lots of different counts depending on what set of chords you want in the set... and what topo morto said about heptatonic scales.

– Michael Curtis
8 hours ago






I think you meant to ask "...seven diatonic tertian triads..." otherwise you could have lots of different counts depending on what set of chords you want in the set... and what topo morto said about heptatonic scales.

– Michael Curtis
8 hours ago





2




2





Consider the chromatic scale. How many chords then? And we may only be talking triads...

– Tim
8 hours ago





Consider the chromatic scale. How many chords then? And we may only be talking triads...

– Tim
8 hours ago













You don't need an exotic scale to get more than seven 3-note chords. Consider e.g. sus2 and sus4 chords.

– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago





You don't need an exotic scale to get more than seven 3-note chords. Consider e.g. sus2 and sus4 chords.

– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago













Readers of this question may be interested in Jay Hook's article "Why Are There Twenty-Nine Tetrachords? A Tutorial on Combinatorics and Enumeration in Music Theory."

– Richard
7 hours ago






Readers of this question may be interested in Jay Hook's article "Why Are There Twenty-Nine Tetrachords? A Tutorial on Combinatorics and Enumeration in Music Theory."

– Richard
7 hours ago














If you include 7ths, 9th, 11ths and 13ths there are quite a bit. But their function from a harmony perspective may not all be independent.

– ggcg
6 hours ago





If you include 7ths, 9th, 11ths and 13ths there are quite a bit. But their function from a harmony perspective may not all be independent.

– ggcg
6 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3















Does a scale have more than seven chords?




Yes, any scale of at least 4 or 5 notes (depending on whether you're defining a chord as having at least 2, or at least 3, notes) can generate more than 7 chords.




Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?




Depending on how you are defining 'chord', you can take any group of 2/3 or more notes and call it a chord.



Of course not all of these chords will be triads.




I thought there were only seven diatonic chords.




A diatonic scale has only seven diatonic triads. But we aren't limited to thinking in terms of triadic harmony (nor are we limited to the diatonic scale, for that matter).






share|improve this answer
































    2














    This may help. https://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html



    I don't know this math so a calculator in Enlish helps me!



    • Types to choose from? 7

    • Number Chosen? 3

    • Is Order important? No

    • Is Repetition allowed? No

    Combinations without repetition (n=7, r=3)
    Using Items: a,b,c,d,e,f,g



    List has 35 entries.
    abc abd abe abf abg acd ace acf acg ade adf adg aef aeg afg bcd bce bcf bcg bde bdf bdg bef beg bfg cde cdf cdg cef ceg cfg def deg dfg efg



    But that included tertian triads ace & seventh chords acg, quartal ade, tone clusters abc etc.




    But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?




    Yes. Even in fairly basic classical harmony, the seventh chords on ii and V are so common that 9 would be the bare minimum of major diatonic chords. Sequential harmony using all 7 diatonic seventh chords is a common pattern so that would be 14 chords. If you are looking for a rough number of chords for diatonic, functional harmony in a single key (not scale) 9-14 seems reasonable.




    double harmonic major... diatonic chords... random notes from a scale... combinatorics




    I think a lot of concepts are packed together.



    With exotic scales like the double harmonic I think the typical approach is not building triads on each scale degree. It's more likely to be a folk music style or some eclectic modern style. 'Chords of the double harmonic scale' or the 'diatonic chords of double harmonic' isn't really a standard thing. Of course you can do it, but there aren't necessarily conventions to follow.



    Combinatorics comes up in classical styles, but it seems to be mostly about permuting melodic material. Chords and harmony don't get treated with interchangeable reordering. ii6 V7 I doesn't get permuted into ii6 I V7 and V7 ii6 I, etc. Also, I think a lot of the melodic combinations are constrained to harmony. So, CEG can become CGE, GEC,GCE, etc. Permutations of the notes of the chord. But the scale setCDEFGABC` is not just randomly permuted. So while there is the idea of Ars Combinatoria in the common practice ear it wasn't random. In those styles harmony followed a kind of grammar that could not be arbitrarily re-ordered. Chord construction as well wasn't random sets of tones from a scale. You can get dozens or hundreds of 'chords' from a seven tone scale, but they won't be common practice chords.



    Contrast that with 12 tone music where the whole point was to treat the 12 chromatic tones equally and un-do the harmonic grammar of common practice. When the harmony is freed from that constrained grammar you can create all kinds of tone sets (chords.)



    When you look at music and combinatorics these contrasting aspects of Ars Combinatoria and 12-tone or other eclectic modern styles.






    share|improve this answer

























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "240"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );













      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f85586%2fdoes-a-scale-have-more-than-seven-chords%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3















      Does a scale have more than seven chords?




      Yes, any scale of at least 4 or 5 notes (depending on whether you're defining a chord as having at least 2, or at least 3, notes) can generate more than 7 chords.




      Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?




      Depending on how you are defining 'chord', you can take any group of 2/3 or more notes and call it a chord.



      Of course not all of these chords will be triads.




      I thought there were only seven diatonic chords.




      A diatonic scale has only seven diatonic triads. But we aren't limited to thinking in terms of triadic harmony (nor are we limited to the diatonic scale, for that matter).






      share|improve this answer





























        3















        Does a scale have more than seven chords?




        Yes, any scale of at least 4 or 5 notes (depending on whether you're defining a chord as having at least 2, or at least 3, notes) can generate more than 7 chords.




        Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?




        Depending on how you are defining 'chord', you can take any group of 2/3 or more notes and call it a chord.



        Of course not all of these chords will be triads.




        I thought there were only seven diatonic chords.




        A diatonic scale has only seven diatonic triads. But we aren't limited to thinking in terms of triadic harmony (nor are we limited to the diatonic scale, for that matter).






        share|improve this answer



























          3












          3








          3








          Does a scale have more than seven chords?




          Yes, any scale of at least 4 or 5 notes (depending on whether you're defining a chord as having at least 2, or at least 3, notes) can generate more than 7 chords.




          Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?




          Depending on how you are defining 'chord', you can take any group of 2/3 or more notes and call it a chord.



          Of course not all of these chords will be triads.




          I thought there were only seven diatonic chords.




          A diatonic scale has only seven diatonic triads. But we aren't limited to thinking in terms of triadic harmony (nor are we limited to the diatonic scale, for that matter).






          share|improve this answer
















          Does a scale have more than seven chords?




          Yes, any scale of at least 4 or 5 notes (depending on whether you're defining a chord as having at least 2, or at least 3, notes) can generate more than 7 chords.




          Should one take just 3 random notes from a scale and call each a chord?




          Depending on how you are defining 'chord', you can take any group of 2/3 or more notes and call it a chord.



          Of course not all of these chords will be triads.




          I thought there were only seven diatonic chords.




          A diatonic scale has only seven diatonic triads. But we aren't limited to thinking in terms of triadic harmony (nor are we limited to the diatonic scale, for that matter).







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 7 hours ago

























          answered 8 hours ago









          topo mortotopo morto

          29.3k249116




          29.3k249116





















              2














              This may help. https://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html



              I don't know this math so a calculator in Enlish helps me!



              • Types to choose from? 7

              • Number Chosen? 3

              • Is Order important? No

              • Is Repetition allowed? No

              Combinations without repetition (n=7, r=3)
              Using Items: a,b,c,d,e,f,g



              List has 35 entries.
              abc abd abe abf abg acd ace acf acg ade adf adg aef aeg afg bcd bce bcf bcg bde bdf bdg bef beg bfg cde cdf cdg cef ceg cfg def deg dfg efg



              But that included tertian triads ace & seventh chords acg, quartal ade, tone clusters abc etc.




              But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?




              Yes. Even in fairly basic classical harmony, the seventh chords on ii and V are so common that 9 would be the bare minimum of major diatonic chords. Sequential harmony using all 7 diatonic seventh chords is a common pattern so that would be 14 chords. If you are looking for a rough number of chords for diatonic, functional harmony in a single key (not scale) 9-14 seems reasonable.




              double harmonic major... diatonic chords... random notes from a scale... combinatorics




              I think a lot of concepts are packed together.



              With exotic scales like the double harmonic I think the typical approach is not building triads on each scale degree. It's more likely to be a folk music style or some eclectic modern style. 'Chords of the double harmonic scale' or the 'diatonic chords of double harmonic' isn't really a standard thing. Of course you can do it, but there aren't necessarily conventions to follow.



              Combinatorics comes up in classical styles, but it seems to be mostly about permuting melodic material. Chords and harmony don't get treated with interchangeable reordering. ii6 V7 I doesn't get permuted into ii6 I V7 and V7 ii6 I, etc. Also, I think a lot of the melodic combinations are constrained to harmony. So, CEG can become CGE, GEC,GCE, etc. Permutations of the notes of the chord. But the scale setCDEFGABC` is not just randomly permuted. So while there is the idea of Ars Combinatoria in the common practice ear it wasn't random. In those styles harmony followed a kind of grammar that could not be arbitrarily re-ordered. Chord construction as well wasn't random sets of tones from a scale. You can get dozens or hundreds of 'chords' from a seven tone scale, but they won't be common practice chords.



              Contrast that with 12 tone music where the whole point was to treat the 12 chromatic tones equally and un-do the harmonic grammar of common practice. When the harmony is freed from that constrained grammar you can create all kinds of tone sets (chords.)



              When you look at music and combinatorics these contrasting aspects of Ars Combinatoria and 12-tone or other eclectic modern styles.






              share|improve this answer





























                2














                This may help. https://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html



                I don't know this math so a calculator in Enlish helps me!



                • Types to choose from? 7

                • Number Chosen? 3

                • Is Order important? No

                • Is Repetition allowed? No

                Combinations without repetition (n=7, r=3)
                Using Items: a,b,c,d,e,f,g



                List has 35 entries.
                abc abd abe abf abg acd ace acf acg ade adf adg aef aeg afg bcd bce bcf bcg bde bdf bdg bef beg bfg cde cdf cdg cef ceg cfg def deg dfg efg



                But that included tertian triads ace & seventh chords acg, quartal ade, tone clusters abc etc.




                But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?




                Yes. Even in fairly basic classical harmony, the seventh chords on ii and V are so common that 9 would be the bare minimum of major diatonic chords. Sequential harmony using all 7 diatonic seventh chords is a common pattern so that would be 14 chords. If you are looking for a rough number of chords for diatonic, functional harmony in a single key (not scale) 9-14 seems reasonable.




                double harmonic major... diatonic chords... random notes from a scale... combinatorics




                I think a lot of concepts are packed together.



                With exotic scales like the double harmonic I think the typical approach is not building triads on each scale degree. It's more likely to be a folk music style or some eclectic modern style. 'Chords of the double harmonic scale' or the 'diatonic chords of double harmonic' isn't really a standard thing. Of course you can do it, but there aren't necessarily conventions to follow.



                Combinatorics comes up in classical styles, but it seems to be mostly about permuting melodic material. Chords and harmony don't get treated with interchangeable reordering. ii6 V7 I doesn't get permuted into ii6 I V7 and V7 ii6 I, etc. Also, I think a lot of the melodic combinations are constrained to harmony. So, CEG can become CGE, GEC,GCE, etc. Permutations of the notes of the chord. But the scale setCDEFGABC` is not just randomly permuted. So while there is the idea of Ars Combinatoria in the common practice ear it wasn't random. In those styles harmony followed a kind of grammar that could not be arbitrarily re-ordered. Chord construction as well wasn't random sets of tones from a scale. You can get dozens or hundreds of 'chords' from a seven tone scale, but they won't be common practice chords.



                Contrast that with 12 tone music where the whole point was to treat the 12 chromatic tones equally and un-do the harmonic grammar of common practice. When the harmony is freed from that constrained grammar you can create all kinds of tone sets (chords.)



                When you look at music and combinatorics these contrasting aspects of Ars Combinatoria and 12-tone or other eclectic modern styles.






                share|improve this answer



























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  This may help. https://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html



                  I don't know this math so a calculator in Enlish helps me!



                  • Types to choose from? 7

                  • Number Chosen? 3

                  • Is Order important? No

                  • Is Repetition allowed? No

                  Combinations without repetition (n=7, r=3)
                  Using Items: a,b,c,d,e,f,g



                  List has 35 entries.
                  abc abd abe abf abg acd ace acf acg ade adf adg aef aeg afg bcd bce bcf bcg bde bdf bdg bef beg bfg cde cdf cdg cef ceg cfg def deg dfg efg



                  But that included tertian triads ace & seventh chords acg, quartal ade, tone clusters abc etc.




                  But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?




                  Yes. Even in fairly basic classical harmony, the seventh chords on ii and V are so common that 9 would be the bare minimum of major diatonic chords. Sequential harmony using all 7 diatonic seventh chords is a common pattern so that would be 14 chords. If you are looking for a rough number of chords for diatonic, functional harmony in a single key (not scale) 9-14 seems reasonable.




                  double harmonic major... diatonic chords... random notes from a scale... combinatorics




                  I think a lot of concepts are packed together.



                  With exotic scales like the double harmonic I think the typical approach is not building triads on each scale degree. It's more likely to be a folk music style or some eclectic modern style. 'Chords of the double harmonic scale' or the 'diatonic chords of double harmonic' isn't really a standard thing. Of course you can do it, but there aren't necessarily conventions to follow.



                  Combinatorics comes up in classical styles, but it seems to be mostly about permuting melodic material. Chords and harmony don't get treated with interchangeable reordering. ii6 V7 I doesn't get permuted into ii6 I V7 and V7 ii6 I, etc. Also, I think a lot of the melodic combinations are constrained to harmony. So, CEG can become CGE, GEC,GCE, etc. Permutations of the notes of the chord. But the scale setCDEFGABC` is not just randomly permuted. So while there is the idea of Ars Combinatoria in the common practice ear it wasn't random. In those styles harmony followed a kind of grammar that could not be arbitrarily re-ordered. Chord construction as well wasn't random sets of tones from a scale. You can get dozens or hundreds of 'chords' from a seven tone scale, but they won't be common practice chords.



                  Contrast that with 12 tone music where the whole point was to treat the 12 chromatic tones equally and un-do the harmonic grammar of common practice. When the harmony is freed from that constrained grammar you can create all kinds of tone sets (chords.)



                  When you look at music and combinatorics these contrasting aspects of Ars Combinatoria and 12-tone or other eclectic modern styles.






                  share|improve this answer















                  This may help. https://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html



                  I don't know this math so a calculator in Enlish helps me!



                  • Types to choose from? 7

                  • Number Chosen? 3

                  • Is Order important? No

                  • Is Repetition allowed? No

                  Combinations without repetition (n=7, r=3)
                  Using Items: a,b,c,d,e,f,g



                  List has 35 entries.
                  abc abd abe abf abg acd ace acf acg ade adf adg aef aeg afg bcd bce bcf bcg bde bdf bdg bef beg bfg cde cdf cdg cef ceg cfg def deg dfg efg



                  But that included tertian triads ace & seventh chords acg, quartal ade, tone clusters abc etc.




                  But in any case, is there more than seven chords in a scale?




                  Yes. Even in fairly basic classical harmony, the seventh chords on ii and V are so common that 9 would be the bare minimum of major diatonic chords. Sequential harmony using all 7 diatonic seventh chords is a common pattern so that would be 14 chords. If you are looking for a rough number of chords for diatonic, functional harmony in a single key (not scale) 9-14 seems reasonable.




                  double harmonic major... diatonic chords... random notes from a scale... combinatorics




                  I think a lot of concepts are packed together.



                  With exotic scales like the double harmonic I think the typical approach is not building triads on each scale degree. It's more likely to be a folk music style or some eclectic modern style. 'Chords of the double harmonic scale' or the 'diatonic chords of double harmonic' isn't really a standard thing. Of course you can do it, but there aren't necessarily conventions to follow.



                  Combinatorics comes up in classical styles, but it seems to be mostly about permuting melodic material. Chords and harmony don't get treated with interchangeable reordering. ii6 V7 I doesn't get permuted into ii6 I V7 and V7 ii6 I, etc. Also, I think a lot of the melodic combinations are constrained to harmony. So, CEG can become CGE, GEC,GCE, etc. Permutations of the notes of the chord. But the scale setCDEFGABC` is not just randomly permuted. So while there is the idea of Ars Combinatoria in the common practice ear it wasn't random. In those styles harmony followed a kind of grammar that could not be arbitrarily re-ordered. Chord construction as well wasn't random sets of tones from a scale. You can get dozens or hundreds of 'chords' from a seven tone scale, but they won't be common practice chords.



                  Contrast that with 12 tone music where the whole point was to treat the 12 chromatic tones equally and un-do the harmonic grammar of common practice. When the harmony is freed from that constrained grammar you can create all kinds of tone sets (chords.)



                  When you look at music and combinatorics these contrasting aspects of Ars Combinatoria and 12-tone or other eclectic modern styles.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 3 hours ago

























                  answered 7 hours ago









                  Michael CurtisMichael Curtis

                  14.4k1051




                  14.4k1051



























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded
















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f85586%2fdoes-a-scale-have-more-than-seven-chords%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

                      Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

                      Ласкавець круглолистий Зміст Опис | Поширення | Галерея | Примітки | Посилання | Навігаційне меню58171138361-22960890446Bupleurum rotundifoliumEuro+Med PlantbasePlants of the World Online — Kew ScienceGermplasm Resources Information Network (GRIN)Ласкавецькн. VI : Літери Ком — Левиправивши або дописавши її