Is this homebrew life-stealing melee cantrip unbalanced?What is a “bag of rats”?Is this 2nd version of a “life-stealing” melee weapon attack cantrip balanced?Is this homebrew paralysing dagger balanced?Is this werewolf homebrew race balanced?Is there a reason this homebrew spell wouldn't work with the Attack action?Is this homebrew Dartmaster class balanced compared to the other PHB classes?Does this cantrip have a fair risk/reward balance?What should the rarity rating be for this homebrew Healing Brick?Is this homebrew Circle of Flames/Chaos subclass for druids balanced?Is this homebrew Elementalist Fighter class balanced?What is the rarity of this homebrew magic staff, “Blackthorn”?Is this 2nd version of a “life-stealing” melee weapon attack cantrip balanced?

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Is this homebrew life-stealing melee cantrip unbalanced?


What is a “bag of rats”?Is this 2nd version of a “life-stealing” melee weapon attack cantrip balanced?Is this homebrew paralysing dagger balanced?Is this werewolf homebrew race balanced?Is there a reason this homebrew spell wouldn't work with the Attack action?Is this homebrew Dartmaster class balanced compared to the other PHB classes?Does this cantrip have a fair risk/reward balance?What should the rarity rating be for this homebrew Healing Brick?Is this homebrew Circle of Flames/Chaos subclass for druids balanced?Is this homebrew Elementalist Fighter class balanced?What is the rarity of this homebrew magic staff, “Blackthorn”?Is this 2nd version of a “life-stealing” melee weapon attack cantrip balanced?






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7












$begingroup$


I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if



  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets

are enough to make it balanced?










share|improve this question









New contributor




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  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago

















7












$begingroup$


I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if



  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets

are enough to make it balanced?










share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago













7












7








7





$begingroup$


I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if



  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets

are enough to make it balanced?










share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if



  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets

are enough to make it balanced?







dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips






share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 53 mins ago









V2Blast

28.3k5102172




28.3k5102172






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asked 7 hours ago









CrazyRabitCrazyRabit

373




373




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New contributor





CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago












  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago







4




4




$begingroup$
Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
7 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
What class or classes would you give it to?
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
What class or classes would you give it to?
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
$endgroup$
– Riker
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
$endgroup$
– Riker
2 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















16












$begingroup$

It's probably unbalanced.



Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:



  • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

  • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

  • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

  • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).

A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    7 hours ago


















13












$begingroup$

Definitely unbalanced



I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



Two options would thus be:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
given creature.




Or:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    51 mins ago


















1












$begingroup$

The cantrip is too easily abused.



Even without comparing this to official cantrips, your suggested homebrew cantrip is unbalanced. The benefits (regaining hit points) stack with themselves, and the cantrip can be used indefinitely against any creature. What you have here is a "bag of rats" scenario, in which the player has a benefit-per-hit ability that they can easily exploit by hitting many weak creatures.



For example, suppose a level 1 wizard literally carries around a bag of rats. Each rat is a CR 0 creature with 10 AC, 1 hit point, and a -1 Constitution save bonus. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume each casting of the cantrip has a 50% chance to successfully kill a rat and gain +1d4 hit points.



In 1 minute (10 rounds), if the wizard casts this cantrip each round, then they can can regain about ~5d4 HP. This expends no materials, and heals more than a consumable healing potion. And in 5 minutes, the wizard can regain ~25d4 hit points, which is cheaper than spending hit dice during a short rest, even at higher levels.



When the wizard runs out of rats, they can find new ones, likely for a lower cost than a healing potion or rest at an inn. This simple cantrip can break the system's hit point economy.



How to rebalance it?



As with any "bag of rats" exploit, you can prevent abuse by making the benefits non-cumulative, such as granting temporary hit points that don't stack with themselves. The result is a cantrip that still rivals an at-will false life, but at least then the cantrip won't replace potions or the intended healing economy.






share|improve this answer









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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    16












    $begingroup$

    It's probably unbalanced.



    Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:



    • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

    • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

    • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

    • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).

    A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



    As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
      $endgroup$
      – Slagmoth
      7 hours ago















    16












    $begingroup$

    It's probably unbalanced.



    Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:



    • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

    • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

    • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

    • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).

    A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



    As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
      $endgroup$
      – Slagmoth
      7 hours ago













    16












    16








    16





    $begingroup$

    It's probably unbalanced.



    Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:



    • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

    • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

    • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

    • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).

    A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



    As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    It's probably unbalanced.



    Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:



    • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

    • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

    • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

    • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).

    A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



    As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 1 hour ago

























    answered 7 hours ago









    ApocalispApocalisp

    3,3241142




    3,3241142











    • $begingroup$
      Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
      $endgroup$
      – Slagmoth
      7 hours ago
















    • $begingroup$
      Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
      $endgroup$
      – Slagmoth
      7 hours ago















    $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    7 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    7 hours ago













    13












    $begingroup$

    Definitely unbalanced



    I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



    What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



    Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



    Two options would thus be:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
    creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
    temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
    given creature.




    Or:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
    the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
    marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
    HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
    failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




    Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      2 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
      $endgroup$
      – V2Blast
      51 mins ago















    13












    $begingroup$

    Definitely unbalanced



    I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



    What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



    Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



    Two options would thus be:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
    creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
    temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
    given creature.




    Or:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
    the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
    marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
    HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
    failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




    Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      2 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
      $endgroup$
      – V2Blast
      51 mins ago













    13












    13








    13





    $begingroup$

    Definitely unbalanced



    I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



    What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



    Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



    Two options would thus be:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
    creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
    temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
    given creature.




    Or:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
    the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
    marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
    HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
    failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




    Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Definitely unbalanced



    I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



    What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



    Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



    Two options would thus be:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
    creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
    temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
    given creature.




    Or:




    On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
    the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
    marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
    HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
    failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




    Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 6 hours ago









    cpcodescpcodes

    2,092222




    2,092222











    • $begingroup$
      I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      2 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
      $endgroup$
      – V2Blast
      51 mins ago
















    • $begingroup$
      I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
      $endgroup$
      – CrazyRabit
      2 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
      $endgroup$
      – NautArch
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
      $endgroup$
      – V2Blast
      51 mins ago















    $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago





    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago












    $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    51 mins ago




    $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    51 mins ago











    1












    $begingroup$

    The cantrip is too easily abused.



    Even without comparing this to official cantrips, your suggested homebrew cantrip is unbalanced. The benefits (regaining hit points) stack with themselves, and the cantrip can be used indefinitely against any creature. What you have here is a "bag of rats" scenario, in which the player has a benefit-per-hit ability that they can easily exploit by hitting many weak creatures.



    For example, suppose a level 1 wizard literally carries around a bag of rats. Each rat is a CR 0 creature with 10 AC, 1 hit point, and a -1 Constitution save bonus. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume each casting of the cantrip has a 50% chance to successfully kill a rat and gain +1d4 hit points.



    In 1 minute (10 rounds), if the wizard casts this cantrip each round, then they can can regain about ~5d4 HP. This expends no materials, and heals more than a consumable healing potion. And in 5 minutes, the wizard can regain ~25d4 hit points, which is cheaper than spending hit dice during a short rest, even at higher levels.



    When the wizard runs out of rats, they can find new ones, likely for a lower cost than a healing potion or rest at an inn. This simple cantrip can break the system's hit point economy.



    How to rebalance it?



    As with any "bag of rats" exploit, you can prevent abuse by making the benefits non-cumulative, such as granting temporary hit points that don't stack with themselves. The result is a cantrip that still rivals an at-will false life, but at least then the cantrip won't replace potions or the intended healing economy.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      1












      $begingroup$

      The cantrip is too easily abused.



      Even without comparing this to official cantrips, your suggested homebrew cantrip is unbalanced. The benefits (regaining hit points) stack with themselves, and the cantrip can be used indefinitely against any creature. What you have here is a "bag of rats" scenario, in which the player has a benefit-per-hit ability that they can easily exploit by hitting many weak creatures.



      For example, suppose a level 1 wizard literally carries around a bag of rats. Each rat is a CR 0 creature with 10 AC, 1 hit point, and a -1 Constitution save bonus. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume each casting of the cantrip has a 50% chance to successfully kill a rat and gain +1d4 hit points.



      In 1 minute (10 rounds), if the wizard casts this cantrip each round, then they can can regain about ~5d4 HP. This expends no materials, and heals more than a consumable healing potion. And in 5 minutes, the wizard can regain ~25d4 hit points, which is cheaper than spending hit dice during a short rest, even at higher levels.



      When the wizard runs out of rats, they can find new ones, likely for a lower cost than a healing potion or rest at an inn. This simple cantrip can break the system's hit point economy.



      How to rebalance it?



      As with any "bag of rats" exploit, you can prevent abuse by making the benefits non-cumulative, such as granting temporary hit points that don't stack with themselves. The result is a cantrip that still rivals an at-will false life, but at least then the cantrip won't replace potions or the intended healing economy.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        The cantrip is too easily abused.



        Even without comparing this to official cantrips, your suggested homebrew cantrip is unbalanced. The benefits (regaining hit points) stack with themselves, and the cantrip can be used indefinitely against any creature. What you have here is a "bag of rats" scenario, in which the player has a benefit-per-hit ability that they can easily exploit by hitting many weak creatures.



        For example, suppose a level 1 wizard literally carries around a bag of rats. Each rat is a CR 0 creature with 10 AC, 1 hit point, and a -1 Constitution save bonus. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume each casting of the cantrip has a 50% chance to successfully kill a rat and gain +1d4 hit points.



        In 1 minute (10 rounds), if the wizard casts this cantrip each round, then they can can regain about ~5d4 HP. This expends no materials, and heals more than a consumable healing potion. And in 5 minutes, the wizard can regain ~25d4 hit points, which is cheaper than spending hit dice during a short rest, even at higher levels.



        When the wizard runs out of rats, they can find new ones, likely for a lower cost than a healing potion or rest at an inn. This simple cantrip can break the system's hit point economy.



        How to rebalance it?



        As with any "bag of rats" exploit, you can prevent abuse by making the benefits non-cumulative, such as granting temporary hit points that don't stack with themselves. The result is a cantrip that still rivals an at-will false life, but at least then the cantrip won't replace potions or the intended healing economy.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        The cantrip is too easily abused.



        Even without comparing this to official cantrips, your suggested homebrew cantrip is unbalanced. The benefits (regaining hit points) stack with themselves, and the cantrip can be used indefinitely against any creature. What you have here is a "bag of rats" scenario, in which the player has a benefit-per-hit ability that they can easily exploit by hitting many weak creatures.



        For example, suppose a level 1 wizard literally carries around a bag of rats. Each rat is a CR 0 creature with 10 AC, 1 hit point, and a -1 Constitution save bonus. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume each casting of the cantrip has a 50% chance to successfully kill a rat and gain +1d4 hit points.



        In 1 minute (10 rounds), if the wizard casts this cantrip each round, then they can can regain about ~5d4 HP. This expends no materials, and heals more than a consumable healing potion. And in 5 minutes, the wizard can regain ~25d4 hit points, which is cheaper than spending hit dice during a short rest, even at higher levels.



        When the wizard runs out of rats, they can find new ones, likely for a lower cost than a healing potion or rest at an inn. This simple cantrip can break the system's hit point economy.



        How to rebalance it?



        As with any "bag of rats" exploit, you can prevent abuse by making the benefits non-cumulative, such as granting temporary hit points that don't stack with themselves. The result is a cantrip that still rivals an at-will false life, but at least then the cantrip won't replace potions or the intended healing economy.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 24 mins ago









        MikeQMikeQ

        15.2k63389




        15.2k63389




















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