Just how fanciful is Egyptology?How widespread was astronomy in prehistoric times?How long did belief in the Egyptian sun god Ra last?Did the Ptolemaic Egyptians know how old the Pyramids were?How did thieves get into Egyptian pyramids?How was the Ancient Egyptian name 'God is Gracious' written?Did all of Egypt, or just the Ptolemies decline?How old was the Egyptian calendar system?How did the Egyptian Pharaohs get their title?How popular was the name Imhotep?
What actually is "unallocated space"?
Why is Mars cold?
Why is this a missed win?
Why doesn't English employ an H in front of the name Ares?
Why are Krueger flaps called flaps and not slats?
Linux Commands in Python
What exactly is meant by "partial function" in functional programming?
I don't want my ls command in my script to print results on screen
Was Switzerland pressured either by Allies or Axis to take part in World War 2 at any time?
prevent single quotes in bash script
Most optimal hallways with random gravity inside?
Who inspired the character Geordi La Forge?
Conveying the idea of "tricky"
Is there a PlotLabels placement such as "Above Left" or "Below Right", etc.?
Grade changes with auto grader
Is there a package that allows to write correctly times in hours, minutes and seconds in mathematical mode?
Are my triangles similar?
Making a pikuach nefesh phone call on Yom Kippur - mitsva or something to be avoided?
How much energy is stored in a AA battery when its voltage has dropped to 1.2V?
when to use がつ or げつ readings for 月?
I'm half of a hundred
Would a spacecraft carry arc welding supplies?
On notice period - coworker I need to train is giving me the silent treatment
In this day and age should the definition / categorisation of erotica be revised?
Just how fanciful is Egyptology?
How widespread was astronomy in prehistoric times?How long did belief in the Egyptian sun god Ra last?Did the Ptolemaic Egyptians know how old the Pyramids were?How did thieves get into Egyptian pyramids?How was the Ancient Egyptian name 'God is Gracious' written?Did all of Egypt, or just the Ptolemies decline?How old was the Egyptian calendar system?How did the Egyptian Pharaohs get their title?How popular was the name Imhotep?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;
.everyonelovesstackoverflowposition:absolute;height:1px;width:1px;opacity:0;top:0;left:0;pointer-events:none;
I've just started learning about Ancient Egypt, and it's fascinating, but it's making me wonder about the reliability of my information. For instance, it is claimed that the Ogdoad governed the four primordial elements of water, infinity, darkness, and hiddenness. This is wonderfully appealing, and I don't doubt that some ancient mind could have had the thought, but it's hard to imagine a mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric.
I don't want to get bogged down in this particular claim (although I would be interested to hear more about it). I just wonder, generally, how much Egyptologists have had to reconstruct these kind of beliefs, and how much they can be read unambiguously from the primary texts.
ancient-egypt
New contributor
add a comment
|
I've just started learning about Ancient Egypt, and it's fascinating, but it's making me wonder about the reliability of my information. For instance, it is claimed that the Ogdoad governed the four primordial elements of water, infinity, darkness, and hiddenness. This is wonderfully appealing, and I don't doubt that some ancient mind could have had the thought, but it's hard to imagine a mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric.
I don't want to get bogged down in this particular claim (although I would be interested to hear more about it). I just wonder, generally, how much Egyptologists have had to reconstruct these kind of beliefs, and how much they can be read unambiguously from the primary texts.
ancient-egypt
New contributor
2
Might be more on topic in mythology? I am not aware of scholarly works on the historiography of "fanciful".
– Mark C. Wallace♦
10 hours ago
3
Re " mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric", have you ever really though about (just for instance) the Christian doctrines of transubstantiation or original sin?
– jamesqf
10 hours ago
add a comment
|
I've just started learning about Ancient Egypt, and it's fascinating, but it's making me wonder about the reliability of my information. For instance, it is claimed that the Ogdoad governed the four primordial elements of water, infinity, darkness, and hiddenness. This is wonderfully appealing, and I don't doubt that some ancient mind could have had the thought, but it's hard to imagine a mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric.
I don't want to get bogged down in this particular claim (although I would be interested to hear more about it). I just wonder, generally, how much Egyptologists have had to reconstruct these kind of beliefs, and how much they can be read unambiguously from the primary texts.
ancient-egypt
New contributor
I've just started learning about Ancient Egypt, and it's fascinating, but it's making me wonder about the reliability of my information. For instance, it is claimed that the Ogdoad governed the four primordial elements of water, infinity, darkness, and hiddenness. This is wonderfully appealing, and I don't doubt that some ancient mind could have had the thought, but it's hard to imagine a mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric.
I don't want to get bogged down in this particular claim (although I would be interested to hear more about it). I just wonder, generally, how much Egyptologists have had to reconstruct these kind of beliefs, and how much they can be read unambiguously from the primary texts.
ancient-egypt
ancient-egypt
New contributor
New contributor
edited 11 hours ago
Charlie
New contributor
asked 12 hours ago
CharlieCharlie
122 bronze badges
122 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
2
Might be more on topic in mythology? I am not aware of scholarly works on the historiography of "fanciful".
– Mark C. Wallace♦
10 hours ago
3
Re " mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric", have you ever really though about (just for instance) the Christian doctrines of transubstantiation or original sin?
– jamesqf
10 hours ago
add a comment
|
2
Might be more on topic in mythology? I am not aware of scholarly works on the historiography of "fanciful".
– Mark C. Wallace♦
10 hours ago
3
Re " mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric", have you ever really though about (just for instance) the Christian doctrines of transubstantiation or original sin?
– jamesqf
10 hours ago
2
2
Might be more on topic in mythology? I am not aware of scholarly works on the historiography of "fanciful".
– Mark C. Wallace♦
10 hours ago
Might be more on topic in mythology? I am not aware of scholarly works on the historiography of "fanciful".
– Mark C. Wallace♦
10 hours ago
3
3
Re " mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric", have you ever really though about (just for instance) the Christian doctrines of transubstantiation or original sin?
– jamesqf
10 hours ago
Re " mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric", have you ever really though about (just for instance) the Christian doctrines of transubstantiation or original sin?
– jamesqf
10 hours ago
add a comment
|
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
You do need to be careful when studying Ancient Egypt, since there are some very ... questionable and ... selective ... interpretations available.
In addition, some work by earlier authors (for example Wallis Budge) has been superseded by more recent research. As Budge's Wikipedia page observes:
"... since his day both translation and dating accuracy have improved, leading to significant revisions. The common writing style of his era — a lack of clear distinction between opinion and incontrovertible fact — is no longer acceptable in scholarly works."
As with all historical studies, our understanding of the past can change enormously based on chance discoveries of new information.
Unfortunately, many of these outdated texts are now out of copyright, and cheap modern editions are available which may create the impression that the information contained in those editions is also up-to-date. Furthermore, as the quoted passage from Wikipedia above makes clear, those texts also sometimes presented scholarly opinion as fact. That combination can be problematic.
Reputable Egyptologists today are generally very clear about the limits of our knowledge. If we don't know something, they will say so. If something is an interpretation based on incomplete sources, then they will also make that clear.
However, sometimes that nuance can be lost in popular texts on the subject. The Ogdoad is a case in point (see below).
For the most part, our evidence for Ancient Egyptian beliefs comes directly from the ancient texts and inscriptions discovered in Egypt. These sources may be supplemented by foreign writers who described events and practices in Egypt (often not particularly accurately!).
For a good introductory overview of Ancient Egyptian mythology and beliefs, you could do a lot worse than Geraldine Pinch's Handbook of Egyptian Mythology (Oxford, 2002). She includes references for further reading and details of primary sources for each entry.
For your example of the Ogdoad, we have a large body of evidence dating back to the Old Kingdom, but those sources do not always agree on the details.
For example, I have seen popular texts and articles that confidently list the names and attributes of the eight gods who make up the Ogdoad. However, the truth is that even the identities of those gods are not consistently recorded in the original texts.
The deities who make up the Ogdoad differ from one source to another.
Nun and his female counterpart Naunet, the deities of the primeval waters, are nearly always included. Naunet may be a primeval form of the sky goddess, Nut. Amun and Amunet, deities of invisible power or the breath of life, are in some of the oldest lists. When Amun was regarded as a creator separate from the eight, he and Amunet were replaced by Nia and Niat, deities of the void. Primeval darkness was represented by Kek and Keket or occasionally Gereh and Gerehet. Some lists have Tenemet, “chaos,” or Heh and his female counterpart Hehet. Heh and Hehet are difficult to interpret. They may originally have embodied the strong currents in the Primeval Waters. The Ogdoad of Hermopolis was sometimes treated as identical with the group of four or eight Heh gods created by Shu to help him support the sky. They in turn were sometimes identified with the “Eastern Souls,” the eight baboons who helped the sun to rise.
- Geraldine Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p176
That was written by an Egyptologist, and as you can see, the limits of what we know from the sources are explicit (Geraldine Harris Pinch is an Egyptologist with the Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford University).
My advice would always be, when in doubt look at the sources cited by the author. If the author does not cite their sources, I'd look for a different author!
For her entry on the Ogdoad (quoted above), Geraldine Pinch has the following:
References and further reading:
- S. Tower Hollis. “Otiose Deities and the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon.” Journal of the American Research Center in Egypt 35 (1998): 61–72
- L. H. Lesko. “Ancient Egyptian Cosmogonies and Cosmology.” In Religion in -Ancient Egypt, edited by Byron E. Shafer. Ithaca, NY, and London: 1991, 88–122.
Primary sources:
- PT 301; CT 76, 78–80; Leiden hymns; MT; Khonsu Cosmogony; BOF
Those primary sources are listed in her appendix.
PT = Pyramid Texts
CT = Coffin Texts
Leiden hymns = See Foster, Hymns, Prayers, and Songs, 68–79.
MT = Memphite Theology
Khonsu Cosmogony = See R. A. Parker and L. H. Lesko. “The Khonsu
Cosmogony.” In Pyramid Studies and Other Essays Presented to I. E. S.
Edwards, edited by J. Baines. London: 1988, 168–175.BOF = Book of the Fayum
Which allows students of the subject to take their research further.
add a comment
|
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "324"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Charlie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f54977%2fjust-how-fanciful-is-egyptology%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
You do need to be careful when studying Ancient Egypt, since there are some very ... questionable and ... selective ... interpretations available.
In addition, some work by earlier authors (for example Wallis Budge) has been superseded by more recent research. As Budge's Wikipedia page observes:
"... since his day both translation and dating accuracy have improved, leading to significant revisions. The common writing style of his era — a lack of clear distinction between opinion and incontrovertible fact — is no longer acceptable in scholarly works."
As with all historical studies, our understanding of the past can change enormously based on chance discoveries of new information.
Unfortunately, many of these outdated texts are now out of copyright, and cheap modern editions are available which may create the impression that the information contained in those editions is also up-to-date. Furthermore, as the quoted passage from Wikipedia above makes clear, those texts also sometimes presented scholarly opinion as fact. That combination can be problematic.
Reputable Egyptologists today are generally very clear about the limits of our knowledge. If we don't know something, they will say so. If something is an interpretation based on incomplete sources, then they will also make that clear.
However, sometimes that nuance can be lost in popular texts on the subject. The Ogdoad is a case in point (see below).
For the most part, our evidence for Ancient Egyptian beliefs comes directly from the ancient texts and inscriptions discovered in Egypt. These sources may be supplemented by foreign writers who described events and practices in Egypt (often not particularly accurately!).
For a good introductory overview of Ancient Egyptian mythology and beliefs, you could do a lot worse than Geraldine Pinch's Handbook of Egyptian Mythology (Oxford, 2002). She includes references for further reading and details of primary sources for each entry.
For your example of the Ogdoad, we have a large body of evidence dating back to the Old Kingdom, but those sources do not always agree on the details.
For example, I have seen popular texts and articles that confidently list the names and attributes of the eight gods who make up the Ogdoad. However, the truth is that even the identities of those gods are not consistently recorded in the original texts.
The deities who make up the Ogdoad differ from one source to another.
Nun and his female counterpart Naunet, the deities of the primeval waters, are nearly always included. Naunet may be a primeval form of the sky goddess, Nut. Amun and Amunet, deities of invisible power or the breath of life, are in some of the oldest lists. When Amun was regarded as a creator separate from the eight, he and Amunet were replaced by Nia and Niat, deities of the void. Primeval darkness was represented by Kek and Keket or occasionally Gereh and Gerehet. Some lists have Tenemet, “chaos,” or Heh and his female counterpart Hehet. Heh and Hehet are difficult to interpret. They may originally have embodied the strong currents in the Primeval Waters. The Ogdoad of Hermopolis was sometimes treated as identical with the group of four or eight Heh gods created by Shu to help him support the sky. They in turn were sometimes identified with the “Eastern Souls,” the eight baboons who helped the sun to rise.
- Geraldine Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p176
That was written by an Egyptologist, and as you can see, the limits of what we know from the sources are explicit (Geraldine Harris Pinch is an Egyptologist with the Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford University).
My advice would always be, when in doubt look at the sources cited by the author. If the author does not cite their sources, I'd look for a different author!
For her entry on the Ogdoad (quoted above), Geraldine Pinch has the following:
References and further reading:
- S. Tower Hollis. “Otiose Deities and the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon.” Journal of the American Research Center in Egypt 35 (1998): 61–72
- L. H. Lesko. “Ancient Egyptian Cosmogonies and Cosmology.” In Religion in -Ancient Egypt, edited by Byron E. Shafer. Ithaca, NY, and London: 1991, 88–122.
Primary sources:
- PT 301; CT 76, 78–80; Leiden hymns; MT; Khonsu Cosmogony; BOF
Those primary sources are listed in her appendix.
PT = Pyramid Texts
CT = Coffin Texts
Leiden hymns = See Foster, Hymns, Prayers, and Songs, 68–79.
MT = Memphite Theology
Khonsu Cosmogony = See R. A. Parker and L. H. Lesko. “The Khonsu
Cosmogony.” In Pyramid Studies and Other Essays Presented to I. E. S.
Edwards, edited by J. Baines. London: 1988, 168–175.BOF = Book of the Fayum
Which allows students of the subject to take their research further.
add a comment
|
You do need to be careful when studying Ancient Egypt, since there are some very ... questionable and ... selective ... interpretations available.
In addition, some work by earlier authors (for example Wallis Budge) has been superseded by more recent research. As Budge's Wikipedia page observes:
"... since his day both translation and dating accuracy have improved, leading to significant revisions. The common writing style of his era — a lack of clear distinction between opinion and incontrovertible fact — is no longer acceptable in scholarly works."
As with all historical studies, our understanding of the past can change enormously based on chance discoveries of new information.
Unfortunately, many of these outdated texts are now out of copyright, and cheap modern editions are available which may create the impression that the information contained in those editions is also up-to-date. Furthermore, as the quoted passage from Wikipedia above makes clear, those texts also sometimes presented scholarly opinion as fact. That combination can be problematic.
Reputable Egyptologists today are generally very clear about the limits of our knowledge. If we don't know something, they will say so. If something is an interpretation based on incomplete sources, then they will also make that clear.
However, sometimes that nuance can be lost in popular texts on the subject. The Ogdoad is a case in point (see below).
For the most part, our evidence for Ancient Egyptian beliefs comes directly from the ancient texts and inscriptions discovered in Egypt. These sources may be supplemented by foreign writers who described events and practices in Egypt (often not particularly accurately!).
For a good introductory overview of Ancient Egyptian mythology and beliefs, you could do a lot worse than Geraldine Pinch's Handbook of Egyptian Mythology (Oxford, 2002). She includes references for further reading and details of primary sources for each entry.
For your example of the Ogdoad, we have a large body of evidence dating back to the Old Kingdom, but those sources do not always agree on the details.
For example, I have seen popular texts and articles that confidently list the names and attributes of the eight gods who make up the Ogdoad. However, the truth is that even the identities of those gods are not consistently recorded in the original texts.
The deities who make up the Ogdoad differ from one source to another.
Nun and his female counterpart Naunet, the deities of the primeval waters, are nearly always included. Naunet may be a primeval form of the sky goddess, Nut. Amun and Amunet, deities of invisible power or the breath of life, are in some of the oldest lists. When Amun was regarded as a creator separate from the eight, he and Amunet were replaced by Nia and Niat, deities of the void. Primeval darkness was represented by Kek and Keket or occasionally Gereh and Gerehet. Some lists have Tenemet, “chaos,” or Heh and his female counterpart Hehet. Heh and Hehet are difficult to interpret. They may originally have embodied the strong currents in the Primeval Waters. The Ogdoad of Hermopolis was sometimes treated as identical with the group of four or eight Heh gods created by Shu to help him support the sky. They in turn were sometimes identified with the “Eastern Souls,” the eight baboons who helped the sun to rise.
- Geraldine Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p176
That was written by an Egyptologist, and as you can see, the limits of what we know from the sources are explicit (Geraldine Harris Pinch is an Egyptologist with the Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford University).
My advice would always be, when in doubt look at the sources cited by the author. If the author does not cite their sources, I'd look for a different author!
For her entry on the Ogdoad (quoted above), Geraldine Pinch has the following:
References and further reading:
- S. Tower Hollis. “Otiose Deities and the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon.” Journal of the American Research Center in Egypt 35 (1998): 61–72
- L. H. Lesko. “Ancient Egyptian Cosmogonies and Cosmology.” In Religion in -Ancient Egypt, edited by Byron E. Shafer. Ithaca, NY, and London: 1991, 88–122.
Primary sources:
- PT 301; CT 76, 78–80; Leiden hymns; MT; Khonsu Cosmogony; BOF
Those primary sources are listed in her appendix.
PT = Pyramid Texts
CT = Coffin Texts
Leiden hymns = See Foster, Hymns, Prayers, and Songs, 68–79.
MT = Memphite Theology
Khonsu Cosmogony = See R. A. Parker and L. H. Lesko. “The Khonsu
Cosmogony.” In Pyramid Studies and Other Essays Presented to I. E. S.
Edwards, edited by J. Baines. London: 1988, 168–175.BOF = Book of the Fayum
Which allows students of the subject to take their research further.
add a comment
|
You do need to be careful when studying Ancient Egypt, since there are some very ... questionable and ... selective ... interpretations available.
In addition, some work by earlier authors (for example Wallis Budge) has been superseded by more recent research. As Budge's Wikipedia page observes:
"... since his day both translation and dating accuracy have improved, leading to significant revisions. The common writing style of his era — a lack of clear distinction between opinion and incontrovertible fact — is no longer acceptable in scholarly works."
As with all historical studies, our understanding of the past can change enormously based on chance discoveries of new information.
Unfortunately, many of these outdated texts are now out of copyright, and cheap modern editions are available which may create the impression that the information contained in those editions is also up-to-date. Furthermore, as the quoted passage from Wikipedia above makes clear, those texts also sometimes presented scholarly opinion as fact. That combination can be problematic.
Reputable Egyptologists today are generally very clear about the limits of our knowledge. If we don't know something, they will say so. If something is an interpretation based on incomplete sources, then they will also make that clear.
However, sometimes that nuance can be lost in popular texts on the subject. The Ogdoad is a case in point (see below).
For the most part, our evidence for Ancient Egyptian beliefs comes directly from the ancient texts and inscriptions discovered in Egypt. These sources may be supplemented by foreign writers who described events and practices in Egypt (often not particularly accurately!).
For a good introductory overview of Ancient Egyptian mythology and beliefs, you could do a lot worse than Geraldine Pinch's Handbook of Egyptian Mythology (Oxford, 2002). She includes references for further reading and details of primary sources for each entry.
For your example of the Ogdoad, we have a large body of evidence dating back to the Old Kingdom, but those sources do not always agree on the details.
For example, I have seen popular texts and articles that confidently list the names and attributes of the eight gods who make up the Ogdoad. However, the truth is that even the identities of those gods are not consistently recorded in the original texts.
The deities who make up the Ogdoad differ from one source to another.
Nun and his female counterpart Naunet, the deities of the primeval waters, are nearly always included. Naunet may be a primeval form of the sky goddess, Nut. Amun and Amunet, deities of invisible power or the breath of life, are in some of the oldest lists. When Amun was regarded as a creator separate from the eight, he and Amunet were replaced by Nia and Niat, deities of the void. Primeval darkness was represented by Kek and Keket or occasionally Gereh and Gerehet. Some lists have Tenemet, “chaos,” or Heh and his female counterpart Hehet. Heh and Hehet are difficult to interpret. They may originally have embodied the strong currents in the Primeval Waters. The Ogdoad of Hermopolis was sometimes treated as identical with the group of four or eight Heh gods created by Shu to help him support the sky. They in turn were sometimes identified with the “Eastern Souls,” the eight baboons who helped the sun to rise.
- Geraldine Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p176
That was written by an Egyptologist, and as you can see, the limits of what we know from the sources are explicit (Geraldine Harris Pinch is an Egyptologist with the Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford University).
My advice would always be, when in doubt look at the sources cited by the author. If the author does not cite their sources, I'd look for a different author!
For her entry on the Ogdoad (quoted above), Geraldine Pinch has the following:
References and further reading:
- S. Tower Hollis. “Otiose Deities and the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon.” Journal of the American Research Center in Egypt 35 (1998): 61–72
- L. H. Lesko. “Ancient Egyptian Cosmogonies and Cosmology.” In Religion in -Ancient Egypt, edited by Byron E. Shafer. Ithaca, NY, and London: 1991, 88–122.
Primary sources:
- PT 301; CT 76, 78–80; Leiden hymns; MT; Khonsu Cosmogony; BOF
Those primary sources are listed in her appendix.
PT = Pyramid Texts
CT = Coffin Texts
Leiden hymns = See Foster, Hymns, Prayers, and Songs, 68–79.
MT = Memphite Theology
Khonsu Cosmogony = See R. A. Parker and L. H. Lesko. “The Khonsu
Cosmogony.” In Pyramid Studies and Other Essays Presented to I. E. S.
Edwards, edited by J. Baines. London: 1988, 168–175.BOF = Book of the Fayum
Which allows students of the subject to take their research further.
You do need to be careful when studying Ancient Egypt, since there are some very ... questionable and ... selective ... interpretations available.
In addition, some work by earlier authors (for example Wallis Budge) has been superseded by more recent research. As Budge's Wikipedia page observes:
"... since his day both translation and dating accuracy have improved, leading to significant revisions. The common writing style of his era — a lack of clear distinction between opinion and incontrovertible fact — is no longer acceptable in scholarly works."
As with all historical studies, our understanding of the past can change enormously based on chance discoveries of new information.
Unfortunately, many of these outdated texts are now out of copyright, and cheap modern editions are available which may create the impression that the information contained in those editions is also up-to-date. Furthermore, as the quoted passage from Wikipedia above makes clear, those texts also sometimes presented scholarly opinion as fact. That combination can be problematic.
Reputable Egyptologists today are generally very clear about the limits of our knowledge. If we don't know something, they will say so. If something is an interpretation based on incomplete sources, then they will also make that clear.
However, sometimes that nuance can be lost in popular texts on the subject. The Ogdoad is a case in point (see below).
For the most part, our evidence for Ancient Egyptian beliefs comes directly from the ancient texts and inscriptions discovered in Egypt. These sources may be supplemented by foreign writers who described events and practices in Egypt (often not particularly accurately!).
For a good introductory overview of Ancient Egyptian mythology and beliefs, you could do a lot worse than Geraldine Pinch's Handbook of Egyptian Mythology (Oxford, 2002). She includes references for further reading and details of primary sources for each entry.
For your example of the Ogdoad, we have a large body of evidence dating back to the Old Kingdom, but those sources do not always agree on the details.
For example, I have seen popular texts and articles that confidently list the names and attributes of the eight gods who make up the Ogdoad. However, the truth is that even the identities of those gods are not consistently recorded in the original texts.
The deities who make up the Ogdoad differ from one source to another.
Nun and his female counterpart Naunet, the deities of the primeval waters, are nearly always included. Naunet may be a primeval form of the sky goddess, Nut. Amun and Amunet, deities of invisible power or the breath of life, are in some of the oldest lists. When Amun was regarded as a creator separate from the eight, he and Amunet were replaced by Nia and Niat, deities of the void. Primeval darkness was represented by Kek and Keket or occasionally Gereh and Gerehet. Some lists have Tenemet, “chaos,” or Heh and his female counterpart Hehet. Heh and Hehet are difficult to interpret. They may originally have embodied the strong currents in the Primeval Waters. The Ogdoad of Hermopolis was sometimes treated as identical with the group of four or eight Heh gods created by Shu to help him support the sky. They in turn were sometimes identified with the “Eastern Souls,” the eight baboons who helped the sun to rise.
- Geraldine Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p176
That was written by an Egyptologist, and as you can see, the limits of what we know from the sources are explicit (Geraldine Harris Pinch is an Egyptologist with the Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford University).
My advice would always be, when in doubt look at the sources cited by the author. If the author does not cite their sources, I'd look for a different author!
For her entry on the Ogdoad (quoted above), Geraldine Pinch has the following:
References and further reading:
- S. Tower Hollis. “Otiose Deities and the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon.” Journal of the American Research Center in Egypt 35 (1998): 61–72
- L. H. Lesko. “Ancient Egyptian Cosmogonies and Cosmology.” In Religion in -Ancient Egypt, edited by Byron E. Shafer. Ithaca, NY, and London: 1991, 88–122.
Primary sources:
- PT 301; CT 76, 78–80; Leiden hymns; MT; Khonsu Cosmogony; BOF
Those primary sources are listed in her appendix.
PT = Pyramid Texts
CT = Coffin Texts
Leiden hymns = See Foster, Hymns, Prayers, and Songs, 68–79.
MT = Memphite Theology
Khonsu Cosmogony = See R. A. Parker and L. H. Lesko. “The Khonsu
Cosmogony.” In Pyramid Studies and Other Essays Presented to I. E. S.
Edwards, edited by J. Baines. London: 1988, 168–175.BOF = Book of the Fayum
Which allows students of the subject to take their research further.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦sempaiscuba
63.4k9 gold badges226 silver badges291 bronze badges
63.4k9 gold badges226 silver badges291 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
Charlie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Charlie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Charlie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Charlie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to History Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f54977%2fjust-how-fanciful-is-egyptology%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
Might be more on topic in mythology? I am not aware of scholarly works on the historiography of "fanciful".
– Mark C. Wallace♦
10 hours ago
3
Re " mainstream religion at an time holding a doctrine so esoteric", have you ever really though about (just for instance) the Christian doctrines of transubstantiation or original sin?
– jamesqf
10 hours ago