How did Gollum know Sauron was gathering the Haradrim to make war?How did Bilbo Baggins find the One Ring exactly?Why did Sauron react the way he did when Frodo put the Ring on inside Mount Doom?Did Sauron originally intend for a prolonged siege of Minas Tirith?How did Gollum know that Sting was an elvish blade?When Frodo was guided by Gollum to the Black Gate, how did he intend to enter Mordor?How did Sauron feed the armies of Mordor?How and why did Gollum “worship” Shelob?How did Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli know what Uruk-hai were?How did Gollum enter Moria?
When do we use "no women" instead of "no woman"?
How to have the "Restore Missing Files" function from Nautilus without installing Nautilus?
What is causing gaps in logs?
Can Russians naturally pronounce "попал в бесперспективняк"?
Given a specific computer system, is it possible to estimate the actual precise run time of a piece of Assembly code
Why is it hard for a neural network to learn the identity function?
Blogging in LaTeX
Playing boules... IN SPACE!
Fishing from underwater domes
German equivalent to "going down the rabbit hole"
Datasets of Large Molecules
How does Query decide the order in which the functions are applied?
An alternative to "two column" geometry proofs
What are ways to record who took the pictures if a camera is used by multiple people?
What is the motivation behind designing a control stick that does not move?
Can authors email you PDFs of their textbook for free?
Can my UK debt be collected because I have to return to US?
How can I portray a character with no fear of death, without them sounding utterly bored?
Was there an original and definitive use of alternate dimensions/realities in fiction?
Am I required to correct my opponent's assumptions about my morph creatures?
How to solve this inequality , when there is a irrational power?
Divide Numbers by 0
Punishment in pacifist society
Why did the VIC-II and SID use 6 µm technology in the era of 3 µm and 1.5 µm?
How did Gollum know Sauron was gathering the Haradrim to make war?
How did Bilbo Baggins find the One Ring exactly?Why did Sauron react the way he did when Frodo put the Ring on inside Mount Doom?Did Sauron originally intend for a prolonged siege of Minas Tirith?How did Gollum know that Sting was an elvish blade?When Frodo was guided by Gollum to the Black Gate, how did he intend to enter Mordor?How did Sauron feed the armies of Mordor?How and why did Gollum “worship” Shelob?How did Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli know what Uruk-hai were?How did Gollum enter Moria?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
When Samwise Gamgee and Frodo Baggins spy on the Haradrim army and their oliphaunts, Gollum explains why they are marching north.
Samwise: Who are they?
Gollum: Wicked men. Servants of Sauron. They are called to Mordor. The Dark One is gathering all armies to him. If he is not now, he will soon be ready.
Samwise: Ready to do what?
Gollum: To make his war. The last war that will cover all the world in shadow.
Gollum correctly knows Sauron's plans and that the Haradrim are his servants.
How could he know all this? He's been hiding under a mountain for years, and when he wasn't hiding under a mountain, he was stalking the Fellowship. The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans.
The quotes are from the movie, but I don't know if Gollum explains all this in the books too. If you can answer from the books, that would be better than relying on just the movies.
tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings movie the-return-of-the-king gollum
add a comment |
When Samwise Gamgee and Frodo Baggins spy on the Haradrim army and their oliphaunts, Gollum explains why they are marching north.
Samwise: Who are they?
Gollum: Wicked men. Servants of Sauron. They are called to Mordor. The Dark One is gathering all armies to him. If he is not now, he will soon be ready.
Samwise: Ready to do what?
Gollum: To make his war. The last war that will cover all the world in shadow.
Gollum correctly knows Sauron's plans and that the Haradrim are his servants.
How could he know all this? He's been hiding under a mountain for years, and when he wasn't hiding under a mountain, he was stalking the Fellowship. The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans.
The quotes are from the movie, but I don't know if Gollum explains all this in the books too. If you can answer from the books, that would be better than relying on just the movies.
tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings movie the-return-of-the-king gollum
Umm, his text is pretty much not an answer, even Sam would guess that much. It's not like they were Sauron's friends coming for a tea.
– Mithoron
6 hours ago
1
The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans Gollum left the mountains years before FotR and hadn't been back since. He had been sniffing around since then trying to find his Precious and eventually reached Mordor, where he was captured and questioned. Not too far-fetched to say he learnt a lot there, and he learns a lot more from talking to Orcs.
– Mat Cauthon
3 hours ago
add a comment |
When Samwise Gamgee and Frodo Baggins spy on the Haradrim army and their oliphaunts, Gollum explains why they are marching north.
Samwise: Who are they?
Gollum: Wicked men. Servants of Sauron. They are called to Mordor. The Dark One is gathering all armies to him. If he is not now, he will soon be ready.
Samwise: Ready to do what?
Gollum: To make his war. The last war that will cover all the world in shadow.
Gollum correctly knows Sauron's plans and that the Haradrim are his servants.
How could he know all this? He's been hiding under a mountain for years, and when he wasn't hiding under a mountain, he was stalking the Fellowship. The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans.
The quotes are from the movie, but I don't know if Gollum explains all this in the books too. If you can answer from the books, that would be better than relying on just the movies.
tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings movie the-return-of-the-king gollum
When Samwise Gamgee and Frodo Baggins spy on the Haradrim army and their oliphaunts, Gollum explains why they are marching north.
Samwise: Who are they?
Gollum: Wicked men. Servants of Sauron. They are called to Mordor. The Dark One is gathering all armies to him. If he is not now, he will soon be ready.
Samwise: Ready to do what?
Gollum: To make his war. The last war that will cover all the world in shadow.
Gollum correctly knows Sauron's plans and that the Haradrim are his servants.
How could he know all this? He's been hiding under a mountain for years, and when he wasn't hiding under a mountain, he was stalking the Fellowship. The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans.
The quotes are from the movie, but I don't know if Gollum explains all this in the books too. If you can answer from the books, that would be better than relying on just the movies.
tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings movie the-return-of-the-king gollum
tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings movie the-return-of-the-king gollum
edited 3 hours ago
Mat Cauthon
20.8k4 gold badges102 silver badges151 bronze badges
20.8k4 gold badges102 silver badges151 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
LincolnManLincolnMan
3,5882 gold badges27 silver badges50 bronze badges
3,5882 gold badges27 silver badges50 bronze badges
Umm, his text is pretty much not an answer, even Sam would guess that much. It's not like they were Sauron's friends coming for a tea.
– Mithoron
6 hours ago
1
The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans Gollum left the mountains years before FotR and hadn't been back since. He had been sniffing around since then trying to find his Precious and eventually reached Mordor, where he was captured and questioned. Not too far-fetched to say he learnt a lot there, and he learns a lot more from talking to Orcs.
– Mat Cauthon
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Umm, his text is pretty much not an answer, even Sam would guess that much. It's not like they were Sauron's friends coming for a tea.
– Mithoron
6 hours ago
1
The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans Gollum left the mountains years before FotR and hadn't been back since. He had been sniffing around since then trying to find his Precious and eventually reached Mordor, where he was captured and questioned. Not too far-fetched to say he learnt a lot there, and he learns a lot more from talking to Orcs.
– Mat Cauthon
3 hours ago
Umm, his text is pretty much not an answer, even Sam would guess that much. It's not like they were Sauron's friends coming for a tea.
– Mithoron
6 hours ago
Umm, his text is pretty much not an answer, even Sam would guess that much. It's not like they were Sauron's friends coming for a tea.
– Mithoron
6 hours ago
1
1
The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans Gollum left the mountains years before FotR and hadn't been back since. He had been sniffing around since then trying to find his Precious and eventually reached Mordor, where he was captured and questioned. Not too far-fetched to say he learnt a lot there, and he learns a lot more from talking to Orcs.
– Mat Cauthon
3 hours ago
The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans Gollum left the mountains years before FotR and hadn't been back since. He had been sniffing around since then trying to find his Precious and eventually reached Mordor, where he was captured and questioned. Not too far-fetched to say he learnt a lot there, and he learns a lot more from talking to Orcs.
– Mat Cauthon
3 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Gollum knows what's common knowledge among the servants of Sauron
In the book The Two Towers, Sam asks Gollum more or less the same question as you're asking, in a typically suspicious manner:
‘No, no indeed,’ said Gollum. ‘Hobbits must see, must try to understand. He does not expect attack that way. His Eye is all round, but it attends more to some places than to others. He can’t see everything all at once, not yet. You see, He has conquered all the country west of the Shadowy Mountains down to the River, and He holds the bridges now. He thinks no one can come to the Moontower without fighting big battle at the bridges, or getting lots of boats which they cannot hide and He will know about.’
‘You seem to know a lot about what He’s doing and thinking,’ said Sam. ‘Have you been talking to Him lately? Or just hobnobbing with Orcs?’
‘Not nice hobbit, not sensible,’ said Gollum, giving Sam an angry glance and turning to Frodo. ‘Sméagol has talked to Orcs, yes of course, before he met master, and to many peoples: he has walked very far. And what he says now many peoples are saying. It’s here in the North that the big danger is for Him, and for us. He will come out of the Black Gate one day, one day soon. That is the only way big armies can come. But away down west He is not afraid, and there are the Silent Watchers.’
Gollum's answer makes sense, since he had spent time in Mordor previously, and must have heard a lot of chatter from various orcs during his time there.
... and the rest is easy to deduce from seeing the Haradrim.
When the Haradrim show up, close at hand to where the trio are resting, Gollum sneaks up to watch them, and the rest is simple deduction:
‘More Men going to Mordor,’ he said in a low voice. ‘Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before, no, Sméagol has not. They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears; yes, lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks; and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes. Not nice; very cruel wicked Men they look. Almost as bad as Orcs, and much bigger. Sméagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River’s end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate; but more may follow. Always more people coming to Mordor. One day all the peoples will be inside.’
They are clearly allies of Sauron, from the fact that they march so openly and casually on the very border of Mordor. And they seem to be from the South, both from their appearance and the fact that they're coming up the southern road to the Morannon.
add a comment |
Two points:
First, how could anyone in southern Middle-Earth be unaware of this? Sauron had been stepping up his pressure on Gondor for years, and armies being gathered in to Mordor could only mean one thing. And Gollum had an established pattern of spying and listening.
Second, Gollum had previously been Sauron's captive and was tortured. Sauron had an established pattern of gloating over his captured enemies, and even if Sauron didn't monologue at Gollum, the orcs who would have been his primary jailers/torturers would have gloated. And they knew much of what was going on and gossiped. For example:
'Oho! So they haven't told you what to expect? They don't tell us all they know, do they? Not by half. But they can make mistakes, even the Top Ones can.'
'Sh, Gorbag!' Shagrat's voice was lowered, so that even with his strangely sharpened hearing Sam could only just catch what was said. 'They may, but they've got eyes and ears everywhere; some among my lot, as like as not. But there's no doubt about it, they're troubled about something. The Nazgûl down below are, by your account; and Lugbúrz is too. Something nearly slipped.'
'Nearly, you say! ' said Gorbag.
'All right,' said Shagrat, 'but we'll talk of that later: Wait till we get to the Under-way. There's a place there where we can talk a bit, while the lads go on.'
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "186"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f218347%2fhow-did-gollum-know-sauron-was-gathering-the-haradrim-to-make-war%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Gollum knows what's common knowledge among the servants of Sauron
In the book The Two Towers, Sam asks Gollum more or less the same question as you're asking, in a typically suspicious manner:
‘No, no indeed,’ said Gollum. ‘Hobbits must see, must try to understand. He does not expect attack that way. His Eye is all round, but it attends more to some places than to others. He can’t see everything all at once, not yet. You see, He has conquered all the country west of the Shadowy Mountains down to the River, and He holds the bridges now. He thinks no one can come to the Moontower without fighting big battle at the bridges, or getting lots of boats which they cannot hide and He will know about.’
‘You seem to know a lot about what He’s doing and thinking,’ said Sam. ‘Have you been talking to Him lately? Or just hobnobbing with Orcs?’
‘Not nice hobbit, not sensible,’ said Gollum, giving Sam an angry glance and turning to Frodo. ‘Sméagol has talked to Orcs, yes of course, before he met master, and to many peoples: he has walked very far. And what he says now many peoples are saying. It’s here in the North that the big danger is for Him, and for us. He will come out of the Black Gate one day, one day soon. That is the only way big armies can come. But away down west He is not afraid, and there are the Silent Watchers.’
Gollum's answer makes sense, since he had spent time in Mordor previously, and must have heard a lot of chatter from various orcs during his time there.
... and the rest is easy to deduce from seeing the Haradrim.
When the Haradrim show up, close at hand to where the trio are resting, Gollum sneaks up to watch them, and the rest is simple deduction:
‘More Men going to Mordor,’ he said in a low voice. ‘Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before, no, Sméagol has not. They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears; yes, lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks; and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes. Not nice; very cruel wicked Men they look. Almost as bad as Orcs, and much bigger. Sméagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River’s end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate; but more may follow. Always more people coming to Mordor. One day all the peoples will be inside.’
They are clearly allies of Sauron, from the fact that they march so openly and casually on the very border of Mordor. And they seem to be from the South, both from their appearance and the fact that they're coming up the southern road to the Morannon.
add a comment |
Gollum knows what's common knowledge among the servants of Sauron
In the book The Two Towers, Sam asks Gollum more or less the same question as you're asking, in a typically suspicious manner:
‘No, no indeed,’ said Gollum. ‘Hobbits must see, must try to understand. He does not expect attack that way. His Eye is all round, but it attends more to some places than to others. He can’t see everything all at once, not yet. You see, He has conquered all the country west of the Shadowy Mountains down to the River, and He holds the bridges now. He thinks no one can come to the Moontower without fighting big battle at the bridges, or getting lots of boats which they cannot hide and He will know about.’
‘You seem to know a lot about what He’s doing and thinking,’ said Sam. ‘Have you been talking to Him lately? Or just hobnobbing with Orcs?’
‘Not nice hobbit, not sensible,’ said Gollum, giving Sam an angry glance and turning to Frodo. ‘Sméagol has talked to Orcs, yes of course, before he met master, and to many peoples: he has walked very far. And what he says now many peoples are saying. It’s here in the North that the big danger is for Him, and for us. He will come out of the Black Gate one day, one day soon. That is the only way big armies can come. But away down west He is not afraid, and there are the Silent Watchers.’
Gollum's answer makes sense, since he had spent time in Mordor previously, and must have heard a lot of chatter from various orcs during his time there.
... and the rest is easy to deduce from seeing the Haradrim.
When the Haradrim show up, close at hand to where the trio are resting, Gollum sneaks up to watch them, and the rest is simple deduction:
‘More Men going to Mordor,’ he said in a low voice. ‘Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before, no, Sméagol has not. They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears; yes, lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks; and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes. Not nice; very cruel wicked Men they look. Almost as bad as Orcs, and much bigger. Sméagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River’s end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate; but more may follow. Always more people coming to Mordor. One day all the peoples will be inside.’
They are clearly allies of Sauron, from the fact that they march so openly and casually on the very border of Mordor. And they seem to be from the South, both from their appearance and the fact that they're coming up the southern road to the Morannon.
add a comment |
Gollum knows what's common knowledge among the servants of Sauron
In the book The Two Towers, Sam asks Gollum more or less the same question as you're asking, in a typically suspicious manner:
‘No, no indeed,’ said Gollum. ‘Hobbits must see, must try to understand. He does not expect attack that way. His Eye is all round, but it attends more to some places than to others. He can’t see everything all at once, not yet. You see, He has conquered all the country west of the Shadowy Mountains down to the River, and He holds the bridges now. He thinks no one can come to the Moontower without fighting big battle at the bridges, or getting lots of boats which they cannot hide and He will know about.’
‘You seem to know a lot about what He’s doing and thinking,’ said Sam. ‘Have you been talking to Him lately? Or just hobnobbing with Orcs?’
‘Not nice hobbit, not sensible,’ said Gollum, giving Sam an angry glance and turning to Frodo. ‘Sméagol has talked to Orcs, yes of course, before he met master, and to many peoples: he has walked very far. And what he says now many peoples are saying. It’s here in the North that the big danger is for Him, and for us. He will come out of the Black Gate one day, one day soon. That is the only way big armies can come. But away down west He is not afraid, and there are the Silent Watchers.’
Gollum's answer makes sense, since he had spent time in Mordor previously, and must have heard a lot of chatter from various orcs during his time there.
... and the rest is easy to deduce from seeing the Haradrim.
When the Haradrim show up, close at hand to where the trio are resting, Gollum sneaks up to watch them, and the rest is simple deduction:
‘More Men going to Mordor,’ he said in a low voice. ‘Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before, no, Sméagol has not. They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears; yes, lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks; and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes. Not nice; very cruel wicked Men they look. Almost as bad as Orcs, and much bigger. Sméagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River’s end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate; but more may follow. Always more people coming to Mordor. One day all the peoples will be inside.’
They are clearly allies of Sauron, from the fact that they march so openly and casually on the very border of Mordor. And they seem to be from the South, both from their appearance and the fact that they're coming up the southern road to the Morannon.
Gollum knows what's common knowledge among the servants of Sauron
In the book The Two Towers, Sam asks Gollum more or less the same question as you're asking, in a typically suspicious manner:
‘No, no indeed,’ said Gollum. ‘Hobbits must see, must try to understand. He does not expect attack that way. His Eye is all round, but it attends more to some places than to others. He can’t see everything all at once, not yet. You see, He has conquered all the country west of the Shadowy Mountains down to the River, and He holds the bridges now. He thinks no one can come to the Moontower without fighting big battle at the bridges, or getting lots of boats which they cannot hide and He will know about.’
‘You seem to know a lot about what He’s doing and thinking,’ said Sam. ‘Have you been talking to Him lately? Or just hobnobbing with Orcs?’
‘Not nice hobbit, not sensible,’ said Gollum, giving Sam an angry glance and turning to Frodo. ‘Sméagol has talked to Orcs, yes of course, before he met master, and to many peoples: he has walked very far. And what he says now many peoples are saying. It’s here in the North that the big danger is for Him, and for us. He will come out of the Black Gate one day, one day soon. That is the only way big armies can come. But away down west He is not afraid, and there are the Silent Watchers.’
Gollum's answer makes sense, since he had spent time in Mordor previously, and must have heard a lot of chatter from various orcs during his time there.
... and the rest is easy to deduce from seeing the Haradrim.
When the Haradrim show up, close at hand to where the trio are resting, Gollum sneaks up to watch them, and the rest is simple deduction:
‘More Men going to Mordor,’ he said in a low voice. ‘Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before, no, Sméagol has not. They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears; yes, lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks; and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes. Not nice; very cruel wicked Men they look. Almost as bad as Orcs, and much bigger. Sméagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River’s end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate; but more may follow. Always more people coming to Mordor. One day all the peoples will be inside.’
They are clearly allies of Sauron, from the fact that they march so openly and casually on the very border of Mordor. And they seem to be from the South, both from their appearance and the fact that they're coming up the southern road to the Morannon.
answered 8 hours ago
Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor
103k48 gold badges496 silver badges688 bronze badges
103k48 gold badges496 silver badges688 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Two points:
First, how could anyone in southern Middle-Earth be unaware of this? Sauron had been stepping up his pressure on Gondor for years, and armies being gathered in to Mordor could only mean one thing. And Gollum had an established pattern of spying and listening.
Second, Gollum had previously been Sauron's captive and was tortured. Sauron had an established pattern of gloating over his captured enemies, and even if Sauron didn't monologue at Gollum, the orcs who would have been his primary jailers/torturers would have gloated. And they knew much of what was going on and gossiped. For example:
'Oho! So they haven't told you what to expect? They don't tell us all they know, do they? Not by half. But they can make mistakes, even the Top Ones can.'
'Sh, Gorbag!' Shagrat's voice was lowered, so that even with his strangely sharpened hearing Sam could only just catch what was said. 'They may, but they've got eyes and ears everywhere; some among my lot, as like as not. But there's no doubt about it, they're troubled about something. The Nazgûl down below are, by your account; and Lugbúrz is too. Something nearly slipped.'
'Nearly, you say! ' said Gorbag.
'All right,' said Shagrat, 'but we'll talk of that later: Wait till we get to the Under-way. There's a place there where we can talk a bit, while the lads go on.'
add a comment |
Two points:
First, how could anyone in southern Middle-Earth be unaware of this? Sauron had been stepping up his pressure on Gondor for years, and armies being gathered in to Mordor could only mean one thing. And Gollum had an established pattern of spying and listening.
Second, Gollum had previously been Sauron's captive and was tortured. Sauron had an established pattern of gloating over his captured enemies, and even if Sauron didn't monologue at Gollum, the orcs who would have been his primary jailers/torturers would have gloated. And they knew much of what was going on and gossiped. For example:
'Oho! So they haven't told you what to expect? They don't tell us all they know, do they? Not by half. But they can make mistakes, even the Top Ones can.'
'Sh, Gorbag!' Shagrat's voice was lowered, so that even with his strangely sharpened hearing Sam could only just catch what was said. 'They may, but they've got eyes and ears everywhere; some among my lot, as like as not. But there's no doubt about it, they're troubled about something. The Nazgûl down below are, by your account; and Lugbúrz is too. Something nearly slipped.'
'Nearly, you say! ' said Gorbag.
'All right,' said Shagrat, 'but we'll talk of that later: Wait till we get to the Under-way. There's a place there where we can talk a bit, while the lads go on.'
add a comment |
Two points:
First, how could anyone in southern Middle-Earth be unaware of this? Sauron had been stepping up his pressure on Gondor for years, and armies being gathered in to Mordor could only mean one thing. And Gollum had an established pattern of spying and listening.
Second, Gollum had previously been Sauron's captive and was tortured. Sauron had an established pattern of gloating over his captured enemies, and even if Sauron didn't monologue at Gollum, the orcs who would have been his primary jailers/torturers would have gloated. And they knew much of what was going on and gossiped. For example:
'Oho! So they haven't told you what to expect? They don't tell us all they know, do they? Not by half. But they can make mistakes, even the Top Ones can.'
'Sh, Gorbag!' Shagrat's voice was lowered, so that even with his strangely sharpened hearing Sam could only just catch what was said. 'They may, but they've got eyes and ears everywhere; some among my lot, as like as not. But there's no doubt about it, they're troubled about something. The Nazgûl down below are, by your account; and Lugbúrz is too. Something nearly slipped.'
'Nearly, you say! ' said Gorbag.
'All right,' said Shagrat, 'but we'll talk of that later: Wait till we get to the Under-way. There's a place there where we can talk a bit, while the lads go on.'
Two points:
First, how could anyone in southern Middle-Earth be unaware of this? Sauron had been stepping up his pressure on Gondor for years, and armies being gathered in to Mordor could only mean one thing. And Gollum had an established pattern of spying and listening.
Second, Gollum had previously been Sauron's captive and was tortured. Sauron had an established pattern of gloating over his captured enemies, and even if Sauron didn't monologue at Gollum, the orcs who would have been his primary jailers/torturers would have gloated. And they knew much of what was going on and gossiped. For example:
'Oho! So they haven't told you what to expect? They don't tell us all they know, do they? Not by half. But they can make mistakes, even the Top Ones can.'
'Sh, Gorbag!' Shagrat's voice was lowered, so that even with his strangely sharpened hearing Sam could only just catch what was said. 'They may, but they've got eyes and ears everywhere; some among my lot, as like as not. But there's no doubt about it, they're troubled about something. The Nazgûl down below are, by your account; and Lugbúrz is too. Something nearly slipped.'
'Nearly, you say! ' said Gorbag.
'All right,' said Shagrat, 'but we'll talk of that later: Wait till we get to the Under-way. There's a place there where we can talk a bit, while the lads go on.'
answered 8 hours ago
Mark OlsonMark Olson
18.4k4 gold badges65 silver badges96 bronze badges
18.4k4 gold badges65 silver badges96 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f218347%2fhow-did-gollum-know-sauron-was-gathering-the-haradrim-to-make-war%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Umm, his text is pretty much not an answer, even Sam would guess that much. It's not like they were Sauron's friends coming for a tea.
– Mithoron
6 hours ago
1
The point is that his activities would not put him in contact with people who would know Sauron's plans Gollum left the mountains years before FotR and hadn't been back since. He had been sniffing around since then trying to find his Precious and eventually reached Mordor, where he was captured and questioned. Not too far-fetched to say he learnt a lot there, and he learns a lot more from talking to Orcs.
– Mat Cauthon
3 hours ago