Can the additional attack from a Samurai fighter's Rapid Strike feature be made at advantage?Is there “flavor text” in D&D 5e spells?Can fighter use Commander's strike when he only has one attack?Can you Horde Breaker to gain attack (against an ally) and give up attack for commander's strike so ally gains attack?Do You Need to Have Advantage Against a Surprised Opponent to Use Sneak Attack?If I have both advantage and disadvantage, and my target is Elusive, do I have disadvantage on the attack?Adding Precision Strike to an attack with advantageCan swashbucklers sneak attack with disadvantage?Can unarmed strike work with a rogue's sneak attack?How does forgoing advantage interact with Elven Accuracy?Does the Horde Breaker feature work on the attack granted by Haste?Does the Eldritch Knight's Eldritch Strike feature impose disadvantage on a saving throw against a spell cast before the attack?

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Can the additional attack from a Samurai fighter's Rapid Strike feature be made at advantage?


Is there “flavor text” in D&D 5e spells?Can fighter use Commander's strike when he only has one attack?Can you Horde Breaker to gain attack (against an ally) and give up attack for commander's strike so ally gains attack?Do You Need to Have Advantage Against a Surprised Opponent to Use Sneak Attack?If I have both advantage and disadvantage, and my target is Elusive, do I have disadvantage on the attack?Adding Precision Strike to an attack with advantageCan swashbucklers sneak attack with disadvantage?Can unarmed strike work with a rogue's sneak attack?How does forgoing advantage interact with Elven Accuracy?Does the Horde Breaker feature work on the attack granted by Haste?Does the Eldritch Knight's Eldritch Strike feature impose disadvantage on a saving throw against a spell cast before the attack?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








9












$begingroup$


The Samurai fighter archetype (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything, p. 31) gains the Rapid Strike class feature at level 15, which says:




If you [...] have advantage on an attack roll against one of the targets, you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target ...




So, let's say I am invisible as per the greater invisibility spell, or the enemy I'm attacking is blinded, or something else; either way, constant advantage on all my attacks.



At this level, I can make 3 attacks via Extra Attack, so let's say I hit an enemy twice, with advantage, but then for my 3rd attack, I decide to forgo my advantage for an additional weapon attack, as per the Rapid Strike class feature.



Clearly this 3rd attack will not be made at advantage because I deliberately chose to forgo advantage as per Rapid Strike. But would the additional (4th) attack I make still be made at advantage? Or is it implicit that this additional attack is also forgoing advantage?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




















    9












    $begingroup$


    The Samurai fighter archetype (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything, p. 31) gains the Rapid Strike class feature at level 15, which says:




    If you [...] have advantage on an attack roll against one of the targets, you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target ...




    So, let's say I am invisible as per the greater invisibility spell, or the enemy I'm attacking is blinded, or something else; either way, constant advantage on all my attacks.



    At this level, I can make 3 attacks via Extra Attack, so let's say I hit an enemy twice, with advantage, but then for my 3rd attack, I decide to forgo my advantage for an additional weapon attack, as per the Rapid Strike class feature.



    Clearly this 3rd attack will not be made at advantage because I deliberately chose to forgo advantage as per Rapid Strike. But would the additional (4th) attack I make still be made at advantage? Or is it implicit that this additional attack is also forgoing advantage?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$
















      9












      9








      9





      $begingroup$


      The Samurai fighter archetype (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything, p. 31) gains the Rapid Strike class feature at level 15, which says:




      If you [...] have advantage on an attack roll against one of the targets, you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target ...




      So, let's say I am invisible as per the greater invisibility spell, or the enemy I'm attacking is blinded, or something else; either way, constant advantage on all my attacks.



      At this level, I can make 3 attacks via Extra Attack, so let's say I hit an enemy twice, with advantage, but then for my 3rd attack, I decide to forgo my advantage for an additional weapon attack, as per the Rapid Strike class feature.



      Clearly this 3rd attack will not be made at advantage because I deliberately chose to forgo advantage as per Rapid Strike. But would the additional (4th) attack I make still be made at advantage? Or is it implicit that this additional attack is also forgoing advantage?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      The Samurai fighter archetype (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything, p. 31) gains the Rapid Strike class feature at level 15, which says:




      If you [...] have advantage on an attack roll against one of the targets, you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target ...




      So, let's say I am invisible as per the greater invisibility spell, or the enemy I'm attacking is blinded, or something else; either way, constant advantage on all my attacks.



      At this level, I can make 3 attacks via Extra Attack, so let's say I hit an enemy twice, with advantage, but then for my 3rd attack, I decide to forgo my advantage for an additional weapon attack, as per the Rapid Strike class feature.



      Clearly this 3rd attack will not be made at advantage because I deliberately chose to forgo advantage as per Rapid Strike. But would the additional (4th) attack I make still be made at advantage? Or is it implicit that this additional attack is also forgoing advantage?







      dnd-5e class-feature attack fighter advantage-and-disadvantage






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 15 mins ago









      V2Blast

      33.1k5 gold badges118 silver badges205 bronze badges




      33.1k5 gold badges118 silver badges205 bronze badges










      asked 19 hours ago









      NathanSNathanS

      31.5k12 gold badges163 silver badges322 bronze badges




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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          19












          $begingroup$

          RAW, you only forgo advantage on that roll



          You've quoted the only relevant rule, which seems pretty clear:




          [...] you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target [...] (emphasis mine)




          You only need to forgo the advantage on that specific roll to gain the benefit (an extra attack). You can roll the additional attack with advantage.



          However, arguing RAI, I'd apply it to both rolls



          The text of the ruling, (specifically the use of the word 'forgo' and the statement that 'you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes'), implies an exchange is being made by the player. They are swapping the benefit of rolling one attack with advantage to instead roll two attacks. This is always a beneficial trade for the player to make, as it could allow them to hit twice, rather than once, however, an exchange has been made.



          Following RAW, and assuming an ongoing source of advantage (which is pretty common - especially with the Samurai's Fighting Spirit class feature), nothing would be forgone by the player. They would be swapping one attack with advantage for one attack without advantage and one attack with advantage. That's not a swap - it's just a net gain.



          For this reason, I would rule that RAI both attacks should be made without advantage.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$










          • 2




            $begingroup$
            This is a solid argument for RAI saying that it wouldn't apply (even though RAW it seem to), and was roughly what I was thinking of that gave me pause for thought, hence me then asking the question. It also somewhat matches up with the feature's name, "Rapid Strike", the "flavour text" (I know there's technically no flavour text in 5e, strictly speaking) of which even says: "you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes".
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            19 hours ago







          • 2




            $begingroup$
            In many cases it would indeed be a trade-off: not all sources of advantage apply to all attacks on a given round.
            $endgroup$
            – kviiri
            19 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @kviiri That's a good counter-point; in my question I've described a very advantageous situation, and perhaps not the "typical use case" for this feature... Then again, on the other hand, Samurai also have a 3rd level class feature "Fighting Spirit", which can ensure you have constant advantage for that turn: "As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn." So maybe this is something that was taken into consideration when the designers came up with the wording for Rapid Strike?
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            18 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            Relevant meta: Please avoid using the RAI acronym, or use it carefully & be clear in context. You should write out the acronym at least once so it's clear what you mean by it.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            14 mins ago


















          5












          $begingroup$

          You'll gain the advantage on the gained attack as usual



          The wording says "you can forgo the advantage for that roll" (emphasis mine), making it clear that only a single roll is affected by you forgoing the advantage. Therefore in your example, you would make the third attack roll without advantage, but the extra attack roll you gain would be again with advantage.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$

















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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            active

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            active

            oldest

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            19












            $begingroup$

            RAW, you only forgo advantage on that roll



            You've quoted the only relevant rule, which seems pretty clear:




            [...] you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target [...] (emphasis mine)




            You only need to forgo the advantage on that specific roll to gain the benefit (an extra attack). You can roll the additional attack with advantage.



            However, arguing RAI, I'd apply it to both rolls



            The text of the ruling, (specifically the use of the word 'forgo' and the statement that 'you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes'), implies an exchange is being made by the player. They are swapping the benefit of rolling one attack with advantage to instead roll two attacks. This is always a beneficial trade for the player to make, as it could allow them to hit twice, rather than once, however, an exchange has been made.



            Following RAW, and assuming an ongoing source of advantage (which is pretty common - especially with the Samurai's Fighting Spirit class feature), nothing would be forgone by the player. They would be swapping one attack with advantage for one attack without advantage and one attack with advantage. That's not a swap - it's just a net gain.



            For this reason, I would rule that RAI both attacks should be made without advantage.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$










            • 2




              $begingroup$
              This is a solid argument for RAI saying that it wouldn't apply (even though RAW it seem to), and was roughly what I was thinking of that gave me pause for thought, hence me then asking the question. It also somewhat matches up with the feature's name, "Rapid Strike", the "flavour text" (I know there's technically no flavour text in 5e, strictly speaking) of which even says: "you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes".
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              19 hours ago







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              In many cases it would indeed be a trade-off: not all sources of advantage apply to all attacks on a given round.
              $endgroup$
              – kviiri
              19 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @kviiri That's a good counter-point; in my question I've described a very advantageous situation, and perhaps not the "typical use case" for this feature... Then again, on the other hand, Samurai also have a 3rd level class feature "Fighting Spirit", which can ensure you have constant advantage for that turn: "As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn." So maybe this is something that was taken into consideration when the designers came up with the wording for Rapid Strike?
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              18 hours ago











            • $begingroup$
              Relevant meta: Please avoid using the RAI acronym, or use it carefully & be clear in context. You should write out the acronym at least once so it's clear what you mean by it.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              14 mins ago















            19












            $begingroup$

            RAW, you only forgo advantage on that roll



            You've quoted the only relevant rule, which seems pretty clear:




            [...] you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target [...] (emphasis mine)




            You only need to forgo the advantage on that specific roll to gain the benefit (an extra attack). You can roll the additional attack with advantage.



            However, arguing RAI, I'd apply it to both rolls



            The text of the ruling, (specifically the use of the word 'forgo' and the statement that 'you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes'), implies an exchange is being made by the player. They are swapping the benefit of rolling one attack with advantage to instead roll two attacks. This is always a beneficial trade for the player to make, as it could allow them to hit twice, rather than once, however, an exchange has been made.



            Following RAW, and assuming an ongoing source of advantage (which is pretty common - especially with the Samurai's Fighting Spirit class feature), nothing would be forgone by the player. They would be swapping one attack with advantage for one attack without advantage and one attack with advantage. That's not a swap - it's just a net gain.



            For this reason, I would rule that RAI both attacks should be made without advantage.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$










            • 2




              $begingroup$
              This is a solid argument for RAI saying that it wouldn't apply (even though RAW it seem to), and was roughly what I was thinking of that gave me pause for thought, hence me then asking the question. It also somewhat matches up with the feature's name, "Rapid Strike", the "flavour text" (I know there's technically no flavour text in 5e, strictly speaking) of which even says: "you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes".
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              19 hours ago







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              In many cases it would indeed be a trade-off: not all sources of advantage apply to all attacks on a given round.
              $endgroup$
              – kviiri
              19 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @kviiri That's a good counter-point; in my question I've described a very advantageous situation, and perhaps not the "typical use case" for this feature... Then again, on the other hand, Samurai also have a 3rd level class feature "Fighting Spirit", which can ensure you have constant advantage for that turn: "As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn." So maybe this is something that was taken into consideration when the designers came up with the wording for Rapid Strike?
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              18 hours ago











            • $begingroup$
              Relevant meta: Please avoid using the RAI acronym, or use it carefully & be clear in context. You should write out the acronym at least once so it's clear what you mean by it.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              14 mins ago













            19












            19








            19





            $begingroup$

            RAW, you only forgo advantage on that roll



            You've quoted the only relevant rule, which seems pretty clear:




            [...] you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target [...] (emphasis mine)




            You only need to forgo the advantage on that specific roll to gain the benefit (an extra attack). You can roll the additional attack with advantage.



            However, arguing RAI, I'd apply it to both rolls



            The text of the ruling, (specifically the use of the word 'forgo' and the statement that 'you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes'), implies an exchange is being made by the player. They are swapping the benefit of rolling one attack with advantage to instead roll two attacks. This is always a beneficial trade for the player to make, as it could allow them to hit twice, rather than once, however, an exchange has been made.



            Following RAW, and assuming an ongoing source of advantage (which is pretty common - especially with the Samurai's Fighting Spirit class feature), nothing would be forgone by the player. They would be swapping one attack with advantage for one attack without advantage and one attack with advantage. That's not a swap - it's just a net gain.



            For this reason, I would rule that RAI both attacks should be made without advantage.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            RAW, you only forgo advantage on that roll



            You've quoted the only relevant rule, which seems pretty clear:




            [...] you can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target [...] (emphasis mine)




            You only need to forgo the advantage on that specific roll to gain the benefit (an extra attack). You can roll the additional attack with advantage.



            However, arguing RAI, I'd apply it to both rolls



            The text of the ruling, (specifically the use of the word 'forgo' and the statement that 'you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes'), implies an exchange is being made by the player. They are swapping the benefit of rolling one attack with advantage to instead roll two attacks. This is always a beneficial trade for the player to make, as it could allow them to hit twice, rather than once, however, an exchange has been made.



            Following RAW, and assuming an ongoing source of advantage (which is pretty common - especially with the Samurai's Fighting Spirit class feature), nothing would be forgone by the player. They would be swapping one attack with advantage for one attack without advantage and one attack with advantage. That's not a swap - it's just a net gain.



            For this reason, I would rule that RAI both attacks should be made without advantage.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 18 hours ago

























            answered 19 hours ago









            TiggerousTiggerous

            14.4k4 gold badges65 silver badges113 bronze badges




            14.4k4 gold badges65 silver badges113 bronze badges










            • 2




              $begingroup$
              This is a solid argument for RAI saying that it wouldn't apply (even though RAW it seem to), and was roughly what I was thinking of that gave me pause for thought, hence me then asking the question. It also somewhat matches up with the feature's name, "Rapid Strike", the "flavour text" (I know there's technically no flavour text in 5e, strictly speaking) of which even says: "you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes".
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              19 hours ago







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              In many cases it would indeed be a trade-off: not all sources of advantage apply to all attacks on a given round.
              $endgroup$
              – kviiri
              19 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @kviiri That's a good counter-point; in my question I've described a very advantageous situation, and perhaps not the "typical use case" for this feature... Then again, on the other hand, Samurai also have a 3rd level class feature "Fighting Spirit", which can ensure you have constant advantage for that turn: "As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn." So maybe this is something that was taken into consideration when the designers came up with the wording for Rapid Strike?
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              18 hours ago











            • $begingroup$
              Relevant meta: Please avoid using the RAI acronym, or use it carefully & be clear in context. You should write out the acronym at least once so it's clear what you mean by it.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              14 mins ago












            • 2




              $begingroup$
              This is a solid argument for RAI saying that it wouldn't apply (even though RAW it seem to), and was roughly what I was thinking of that gave me pause for thought, hence me then asking the question. It also somewhat matches up with the feature's name, "Rapid Strike", the "flavour text" (I know there's technically no flavour text in 5e, strictly speaking) of which even says: "you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes".
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              19 hours ago







            • 2




              $begingroup$
              In many cases it would indeed be a trade-off: not all sources of advantage apply to all attacks on a given round.
              $endgroup$
              – kviiri
              19 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @kviiri That's a good counter-point; in my question I've described a very advantageous situation, and perhaps not the "typical use case" for this feature... Then again, on the other hand, Samurai also have a 3rd level class feature "Fighting Spirit", which can ensure you have constant advantage for that turn: "As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn." So maybe this is something that was taken into consideration when the designers came up with the wording for Rapid Strike?
              $endgroup$
              – NathanS
              18 hours ago











            • $begingroup$
              Relevant meta: Please avoid using the RAI acronym, or use it carefully & be clear in context. You should write out the acronym at least once so it's clear what you mean by it.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              14 mins ago







            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            This is a solid argument for RAI saying that it wouldn't apply (even though RAW it seem to), and was roughly what I was thinking of that gave me pause for thought, hence me then asking the question. It also somewhat matches up with the feature's name, "Rapid Strike", the "flavour text" (I know there's technically no flavour text in 5e, strictly speaking) of which even says: "you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes".
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            19 hours ago





            $begingroup$
            This is a solid argument for RAI saying that it wouldn't apply (even though RAW it seem to), and was roughly what I was thinking of that gave me pause for thought, hence me then asking the question. It also somewhat matches up with the feature's name, "Rapid Strike", the "flavour text" (I know there's technically no flavour text in 5e, strictly speaking) of which even says: "you learn to trade accuracy for swift strikes".
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            19 hours ago





            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            In many cases it would indeed be a trade-off: not all sources of advantage apply to all attacks on a given round.
            $endgroup$
            – kviiri
            19 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            In many cases it would indeed be a trade-off: not all sources of advantage apply to all attacks on a given round.
            $endgroup$
            – kviiri
            19 hours ago




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            @kviiri That's a good counter-point; in my question I've described a very advantageous situation, and perhaps not the "typical use case" for this feature... Then again, on the other hand, Samurai also have a 3rd level class feature "Fighting Spirit", which can ensure you have constant advantage for that turn: "As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn." So maybe this is something that was taken into consideration when the designers came up with the wording for Rapid Strike?
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            18 hours ago





            $begingroup$
            @kviiri That's a good counter-point; in my question I've described a very advantageous situation, and perhaps not the "typical use case" for this feature... Then again, on the other hand, Samurai also have a 3rd level class feature "Fighting Spirit", which can ensure you have constant advantage for that turn: "As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn." So maybe this is something that was taken into consideration when the designers came up with the wording for Rapid Strike?
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            18 hours ago













            $begingroup$
            Relevant meta: Please avoid using the RAI acronym, or use it carefully & be clear in context. You should write out the acronym at least once so it's clear what you mean by it.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            14 mins ago




            $begingroup$
            Relevant meta: Please avoid using the RAI acronym, or use it carefully & be clear in context. You should write out the acronym at least once so it's clear what you mean by it.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            14 mins ago













            5












            $begingroup$

            You'll gain the advantage on the gained attack as usual



            The wording says "you can forgo the advantage for that roll" (emphasis mine), making it clear that only a single roll is affected by you forgoing the advantage. Therefore in your example, you would make the third attack roll without advantage, but the extra attack roll you gain would be again with advantage.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



















              5












              $begingroup$

              You'll gain the advantage on the gained attack as usual



              The wording says "you can forgo the advantage for that roll" (emphasis mine), making it clear that only a single roll is affected by you forgoing the advantage. Therefore in your example, you would make the third attack roll without advantage, but the extra attack roll you gain would be again with advantage.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                5












                5








                5





                $begingroup$

                You'll gain the advantage on the gained attack as usual



                The wording says "you can forgo the advantage for that roll" (emphasis mine), making it clear that only a single roll is affected by you forgoing the advantage. Therefore in your example, you would make the third attack roll without advantage, but the extra attack roll you gain would be again with advantage.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                You'll gain the advantage on the gained attack as usual



                The wording says "you can forgo the advantage for that roll" (emphasis mine), making it clear that only a single roll is affected by you forgoing the advantage. Therefore in your example, you would make the third attack roll without advantage, but the extra attack roll you gain would be again with advantage.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 19 hours ago









                kviirikviiri

                40.9k13 gold badges156 silver badges228 bronze badges




                40.9k13 gold badges156 silver badges228 bronze badges






























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