When referring to a person only by their surname, should I keep or omit “von”?How to alphabetically sort a list of names?Origin of the surname BargflethPronunciation of the surname RuhleIPA von Haeckel (Hegel, Händel, …)Meaning of “von Weizsäcker”Vor- oder Nachname, um mit einer Person über eine andere zu sprechenDative after 'von' with compound personal namesNeed help about usage of “von”“Von neumannsche Ordinalzahlen” oder “von Neumann'sche Ordinalzahlen”?Genitiv von Namen mit Adelsprädikat
As a GM, is it bad form to ask for a moment to think when improvising?
What is the thing used to help pouring liquids called?
Explaining intravenous drug abuse to a small child
What is a common way to tell if an academic is "above average," or outstanding in their field? Is their h-index (Hirsh index) one of them?
All of my Firefox add-ons been disabled suddenly, how can I re-enable them?
Do quaternary sulfur dications exist?
Was there a dinosaur-counter in the original Jurassic Park movie?
How long does it take a postcard to get from USA to Germany?
Emergency stop in plain TeX, pdfTeX, XeTeX and LuaTeX?
How did the Force make Luke hard to hit in the Battle of Yavin?
Installing Debian 10, upgrade to stable later?
Hide livepatch indicator in top panel
How to deal with employer who keeps me at work after working hours
How long did it take Captain Marvel to travel to Earth?
Does Thanos's ship land in the middle of the battlefield in "Avengers: Endgame"?
Can a player choose to add detail and flavor to their character's spells and abilities?
Is crescere the correct word meaning to to grow or cultivate?
Do Jedi mind tricks work on Ewoks?
How is trade in services conducted under the WTO in the absence of the Doha conclusion?
How to say something covers all the view up to the horizon line?
Has the United States ever had a non-Christian President?
My dual citizen son (US and Australia) wants to marry a US citizen but live in Australia
Is the US ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) a visa?
Endgame puzzle: How to avoid stalemate and win?
When referring to a person only by their surname, should I keep or omit “von”?
How to alphabetically sort a list of names?Origin of the surname BargflethPronunciation of the surname RuhleIPA von Haeckel (Hegel, Händel, …)Meaning of “von Weizsäcker”Vor- oder Nachname, um mit einer Person über eine andere zu sprechenDative after 'von' with compound personal namesNeed help about usage of “von”“Von neumannsche Ordinalzahlen” oder “von Neumann'sche Ordinalzahlen”?Genitiv von Namen mit Adelsprädikat
When referring to people, often they are named by their surname only (no titles, first names or initials if the surname alone would unambiguously denote the person in a context. E.g. Haydn, Merkel.
Some surnames contain the prefix "von" (or similar forms like "vom"/"von dem"). Surnames of non-German origin can have equivalent forms (e.g. Dutch "van", Italian "di", etc. etc.).
In German, the "von" has 2 origins:
- Strictly denoting origin (literally meaning "of" or "from") with a place names. As such strictly part of the surname proper (e.g. Erich von Däniken);
- Added to the surname upon ennoblement (meaning "of the house of"). After the abolishment of the nobility in 1919 - either becoming part of the surname proper (Germany) or being dropped (Austria). (e.g. Friedrich von Schiller)
I understand for alphabetization purposes the word without the preposition(s) is considered (D for Däniken, S for Schiller), as it is done in the Netherlands, while in e.g. Belgium and South Africa the "V" of "van" is used for this purpose.
With all this in mind, I see that often a person is denoted by his surname without the preposition(s) (e.g. Beethoven, Goethe) irrespective whether it is a commoner surname or denoting nobility - but cases can also be found where it is included (e.g. Von Hindenburg vs. the ill-fated dirigible Hindenburg).
(Beethoven provides an interesting example since the surname Van Beethoven is of Dutch origin and the "van" has not been germanized to "von", although the composer is considered German since being in the 3rd generation.)
Is there any rule or style guide clarifying how this (the dropping or retaining of prepositions like "von") is best done? Is it up to the whim of the author? Also, is there a reasoning behind a particular style?
I am asking particularly about German usage. I am aware of the same sort of process in other languages (e.g. William of Occam => Occam's Razor, Rene Descartes => Cartesian Coordinates, etc. but also Da Vinci for Leonardo.)
prepositions person-names
add a comment |
When referring to people, often they are named by their surname only (no titles, first names or initials if the surname alone would unambiguously denote the person in a context. E.g. Haydn, Merkel.
Some surnames contain the prefix "von" (or similar forms like "vom"/"von dem"). Surnames of non-German origin can have equivalent forms (e.g. Dutch "van", Italian "di", etc. etc.).
In German, the "von" has 2 origins:
- Strictly denoting origin (literally meaning "of" or "from") with a place names. As such strictly part of the surname proper (e.g. Erich von Däniken);
- Added to the surname upon ennoblement (meaning "of the house of"). After the abolishment of the nobility in 1919 - either becoming part of the surname proper (Germany) or being dropped (Austria). (e.g. Friedrich von Schiller)
I understand for alphabetization purposes the word without the preposition(s) is considered (D for Däniken, S for Schiller), as it is done in the Netherlands, while in e.g. Belgium and South Africa the "V" of "van" is used for this purpose.
With all this in mind, I see that often a person is denoted by his surname without the preposition(s) (e.g. Beethoven, Goethe) irrespective whether it is a commoner surname or denoting nobility - but cases can also be found where it is included (e.g. Von Hindenburg vs. the ill-fated dirigible Hindenburg).
(Beethoven provides an interesting example since the surname Van Beethoven is of Dutch origin and the "van" has not been germanized to "von", although the composer is considered German since being in the 3rd generation.)
Is there any rule or style guide clarifying how this (the dropping or retaining of prepositions like "von") is best done? Is it up to the whim of the author? Also, is there a reasoning behind a particular style?
I am asking particularly about German usage. I am aware of the same sort of process in other languages (e.g. William of Occam => Occam's Razor, Rene Descartes => Cartesian Coordinates, etc. but also Da Vinci for Leonardo.)
prepositions person-names
The dirigible Hindenburg as opposed to the person never possessed a von.
– guidot
14 hours ago
add a comment |
When referring to people, often they are named by their surname only (no titles, first names or initials if the surname alone would unambiguously denote the person in a context. E.g. Haydn, Merkel.
Some surnames contain the prefix "von" (or similar forms like "vom"/"von dem"). Surnames of non-German origin can have equivalent forms (e.g. Dutch "van", Italian "di", etc. etc.).
In German, the "von" has 2 origins:
- Strictly denoting origin (literally meaning "of" or "from") with a place names. As such strictly part of the surname proper (e.g. Erich von Däniken);
- Added to the surname upon ennoblement (meaning "of the house of"). After the abolishment of the nobility in 1919 - either becoming part of the surname proper (Germany) or being dropped (Austria). (e.g. Friedrich von Schiller)
I understand for alphabetization purposes the word without the preposition(s) is considered (D for Däniken, S for Schiller), as it is done in the Netherlands, while in e.g. Belgium and South Africa the "V" of "van" is used for this purpose.
With all this in mind, I see that often a person is denoted by his surname without the preposition(s) (e.g. Beethoven, Goethe) irrespective whether it is a commoner surname or denoting nobility - but cases can also be found where it is included (e.g. Von Hindenburg vs. the ill-fated dirigible Hindenburg).
(Beethoven provides an interesting example since the surname Van Beethoven is of Dutch origin and the "van" has not been germanized to "von", although the composer is considered German since being in the 3rd generation.)
Is there any rule or style guide clarifying how this (the dropping or retaining of prepositions like "von") is best done? Is it up to the whim of the author? Also, is there a reasoning behind a particular style?
I am asking particularly about German usage. I am aware of the same sort of process in other languages (e.g. William of Occam => Occam's Razor, Rene Descartes => Cartesian Coordinates, etc. but also Da Vinci for Leonardo.)
prepositions person-names
When referring to people, often they are named by their surname only (no titles, first names or initials if the surname alone would unambiguously denote the person in a context. E.g. Haydn, Merkel.
Some surnames contain the prefix "von" (or similar forms like "vom"/"von dem"). Surnames of non-German origin can have equivalent forms (e.g. Dutch "van", Italian "di", etc. etc.).
In German, the "von" has 2 origins:
- Strictly denoting origin (literally meaning "of" or "from") with a place names. As such strictly part of the surname proper (e.g. Erich von Däniken);
- Added to the surname upon ennoblement (meaning "of the house of"). After the abolishment of the nobility in 1919 - either becoming part of the surname proper (Germany) or being dropped (Austria). (e.g. Friedrich von Schiller)
I understand for alphabetization purposes the word without the preposition(s) is considered (D for Däniken, S for Schiller), as it is done in the Netherlands, while in e.g. Belgium and South Africa the "V" of "van" is used for this purpose.
With all this in mind, I see that often a person is denoted by his surname without the preposition(s) (e.g. Beethoven, Goethe) irrespective whether it is a commoner surname or denoting nobility - but cases can also be found where it is included (e.g. Von Hindenburg vs. the ill-fated dirigible Hindenburg).
(Beethoven provides an interesting example since the surname Van Beethoven is of Dutch origin and the "van" has not been germanized to "von", although the composer is considered German since being in the 3rd generation.)
Is there any rule or style guide clarifying how this (the dropping or retaining of prepositions like "von") is best done? Is it up to the whim of the author? Also, is there a reasoning behind a particular style?
I am asking particularly about German usage. I am aware of the same sort of process in other languages (e.g. William of Occam => Occam's Razor, Rene Descartes => Cartesian Coordinates, etc. but also Da Vinci for Leonardo.)
prepositions person-names
prepositions person-names
edited 22 mins ago
V2Blast
1194
1194
asked 15 hours ago
fr13dfr13d
30115
30115
The dirigible Hindenburg as opposed to the person never possessed a von.
– guidot
14 hours ago
add a comment |
The dirigible Hindenburg as opposed to the person never possessed a von.
– guidot
14 hours ago
The dirigible Hindenburg as opposed to the person never possessed a von.
– guidot
14 hours ago
The dirigible Hindenburg as opposed to the person never possessed a von.
– guidot
14 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Alphabetisation should be done with the von in German, as it is officially part of the name, not anything you can just leave out (like a title). However, in practical terms, many people omit the von.
The same with talking to someone: Polite people don't omit the von, except if the person with the von also omits it. So it depends on how the person wants to be addressed. Again, in practical terms, any name is subject to shortening if it has more than one syllable (and people like to test their limits with you), and the von often gets left out - especially if you are not someone special. So even though it shouldn't be so, it's often a sign of respect to not drop it, which is the reason why some people like to drop it.
When thinking about examples where the von is never dropped, I actually only find names which were popularised with the von internationally. The already mentioned von Neumann architecture, or von Braun the brown rocket scientist, science fiction author von Daeniken and so on.
Even people of respect, like von Weizsaecker, can be affected by the vanishing von.
New contributor
add a comment |
There's regional differences:
In most of southern Germany and Austria "von" and "von und zu" (see below) means "nobility". This can be "old", inherited titles as well as ennobled titles (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who is also a good example of use with and without title: If you refer to von Goethe before 1782, you should omit the "von" - He received his title during that year).
"von und zu" means "old nobility" - The family was part of the aristocracy since the middle ages and still sits on their traditional aristocratic estate - Karl Theodor Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg (a former MP and grandfather of former Minister of Defence Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg) would be an example of "old nobility".
In the Netherlands, on the other hand, "van" has nothing to do with nobility - it's just the place of origin of a name. Due to geographic proximity, the usage of "von" seems to be at least partially similar in parts of northern Germany.
With noble ranks factually abolished in 1919 in Germany, all of this has no longer much meaning - It's just names. The constitution of 1919 claimed:
Advantages or disadvantages under the public law caused by birth or social rank are to be suspended. Aristocratic titles are simply part of the name and can no longer be awarded
Just like people owning double names ("Müller-Lüdenscheid") that sometimes like to drop part of their name in everyday usage, persons with names containing "van" or "von" might prefer to use or not use that - It's simply a matter of personal preference - Or like Goethe said:
Ein Titel und ein Orden hält im Gedränge manchen Puff ab...
The rule is simple - "von" is a part of a person's name - If they want to be called like that, it's just good practice to use the name they have to address them.
add a comment |
As far as I'm aware, the "von" is almost always dropped when referring to a person by surname, except perhaps in very formal circumstances where it would feel rude not to use exactly the correct name, e.g. in the news. (And a newsspeaker would probably use the correct name of a living person. I don't think they'd ever refer to Schiller as "von Schiller".)
3
I strongly disagree. One says von Neumann; nobody would understand Neumann.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
I totally agree. Examples: Beethovenstraße and not von-Beethoven-Straße, Stauffenbergattentat and not von-Stauffenberg-Attentat, Bismarckhering and not von-Bismarck-Hering, etc..
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
@scienceponder Beethoven is Dutch. In any case, von Neumann is a counterexample.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
@c.p. sorry a instead of o of course.
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "253"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgerman.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f52074%2fwhen-referring-to-a-person-only-by-their-surname-should-i-keep-or-omit-von%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Alphabetisation should be done with the von in German, as it is officially part of the name, not anything you can just leave out (like a title). However, in practical terms, many people omit the von.
The same with talking to someone: Polite people don't omit the von, except if the person with the von also omits it. So it depends on how the person wants to be addressed. Again, in practical terms, any name is subject to shortening if it has more than one syllable (and people like to test their limits with you), and the von often gets left out - especially if you are not someone special. So even though it shouldn't be so, it's often a sign of respect to not drop it, which is the reason why some people like to drop it.
When thinking about examples where the von is never dropped, I actually only find names which were popularised with the von internationally. The already mentioned von Neumann architecture, or von Braun the brown rocket scientist, science fiction author von Daeniken and so on.
Even people of respect, like von Weizsaecker, can be affected by the vanishing von.
New contributor
add a comment |
Alphabetisation should be done with the von in German, as it is officially part of the name, not anything you can just leave out (like a title). However, in practical terms, many people omit the von.
The same with talking to someone: Polite people don't omit the von, except if the person with the von also omits it. So it depends on how the person wants to be addressed. Again, in practical terms, any name is subject to shortening if it has more than one syllable (and people like to test their limits with you), and the von often gets left out - especially if you are not someone special. So even though it shouldn't be so, it's often a sign of respect to not drop it, which is the reason why some people like to drop it.
When thinking about examples where the von is never dropped, I actually only find names which were popularised with the von internationally. The already mentioned von Neumann architecture, or von Braun the brown rocket scientist, science fiction author von Daeniken and so on.
Even people of respect, like von Weizsaecker, can be affected by the vanishing von.
New contributor
add a comment |
Alphabetisation should be done with the von in German, as it is officially part of the name, not anything you can just leave out (like a title). However, in practical terms, many people omit the von.
The same with talking to someone: Polite people don't omit the von, except if the person with the von also omits it. So it depends on how the person wants to be addressed. Again, in practical terms, any name is subject to shortening if it has more than one syllable (and people like to test their limits with you), and the von often gets left out - especially if you are not someone special. So even though it shouldn't be so, it's often a sign of respect to not drop it, which is the reason why some people like to drop it.
When thinking about examples where the von is never dropped, I actually only find names which were popularised with the von internationally. The already mentioned von Neumann architecture, or von Braun the brown rocket scientist, science fiction author von Daeniken and so on.
Even people of respect, like von Weizsaecker, can be affected by the vanishing von.
New contributor
Alphabetisation should be done with the von in German, as it is officially part of the name, not anything you can just leave out (like a title). However, in practical terms, many people omit the von.
The same with talking to someone: Polite people don't omit the von, except if the person with the von also omits it. So it depends on how the person wants to be addressed. Again, in practical terms, any name is subject to shortening if it has more than one syllable (and people like to test their limits with you), and the von often gets left out - especially if you are not someone special. So even though it shouldn't be so, it's often a sign of respect to not drop it, which is the reason why some people like to drop it.
When thinking about examples where the von is never dropped, I actually only find names which were popularised with the von internationally. The already mentioned von Neumann architecture, or von Braun the brown rocket scientist, science fiction author von Daeniken and so on.
Even people of respect, like von Weizsaecker, can be affected by the vanishing von.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 8 hours ago
Carl DombrowskiCarl Dombrowski
1211
1211
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
There's regional differences:
In most of southern Germany and Austria "von" and "von und zu" (see below) means "nobility". This can be "old", inherited titles as well as ennobled titles (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who is also a good example of use with and without title: If you refer to von Goethe before 1782, you should omit the "von" - He received his title during that year).
"von und zu" means "old nobility" - The family was part of the aristocracy since the middle ages and still sits on their traditional aristocratic estate - Karl Theodor Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg (a former MP and grandfather of former Minister of Defence Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg) would be an example of "old nobility".
In the Netherlands, on the other hand, "van" has nothing to do with nobility - it's just the place of origin of a name. Due to geographic proximity, the usage of "von" seems to be at least partially similar in parts of northern Germany.
With noble ranks factually abolished in 1919 in Germany, all of this has no longer much meaning - It's just names. The constitution of 1919 claimed:
Advantages or disadvantages under the public law caused by birth or social rank are to be suspended. Aristocratic titles are simply part of the name and can no longer be awarded
Just like people owning double names ("Müller-Lüdenscheid") that sometimes like to drop part of their name in everyday usage, persons with names containing "van" or "von" might prefer to use or not use that - It's simply a matter of personal preference - Or like Goethe said:
Ein Titel und ein Orden hält im Gedränge manchen Puff ab...
The rule is simple - "von" is a part of a person's name - If they want to be called like that, it's just good practice to use the name they have to address them.
add a comment |
There's regional differences:
In most of southern Germany and Austria "von" and "von und zu" (see below) means "nobility". This can be "old", inherited titles as well as ennobled titles (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who is also a good example of use with and without title: If you refer to von Goethe before 1782, you should omit the "von" - He received his title during that year).
"von und zu" means "old nobility" - The family was part of the aristocracy since the middle ages and still sits on their traditional aristocratic estate - Karl Theodor Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg (a former MP and grandfather of former Minister of Defence Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg) would be an example of "old nobility".
In the Netherlands, on the other hand, "van" has nothing to do with nobility - it's just the place of origin of a name. Due to geographic proximity, the usage of "von" seems to be at least partially similar in parts of northern Germany.
With noble ranks factually abolished in 1919 in Germany, all of this has no longer much meaning - It's just names. The constitution of 1919 claimed:
Advantages or disadvantages under the public law caused by birth or social rank are to be suspended. Aristocratic titles are simply part of the name and can no longer be awarded
Just like people owning double names ("Müller-Lüdenscheid") that sometimes like to drop part of their name in everyday usage, persons with names containing "van" or "von" might prefer to use or not use that - It's simply a matter of personal preference - Or like Goethe said:
Ein Titel und ein Orden hält im Gedränge manchen Puff ab...
The rule is simple - "von" is a part of a person's name - If they want to be called like that, it's just good practice to use the name they have to address them.
add a comment |
There's regional differences:
In most of southern Germany and Austria "von" and "von und zu" (see below) means "nobility". This can be "old", inherited titles as well as ennobled titles (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who is also a good example of use with and without title: If you refer to von Goethe before 1782, you should omit the "von" - He received his title during that year).
"von und zu" means "old nobility" - The family was part of the aristocracy since the middle ages and still sits on their traditional aristocratic estate - Karl Theodor Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg (a former MP and grandfather of former Minister of Defence Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg) would be an example of "old nobility".
In the Netherlands, on the other hand, "van" has nothing to do with nobility - it's just the place of origin of a name. Due to geographic proximity, the usage of "von" seems to be at least partially similar in parts of northern Germany.
With noble ranks factually abolished in 1919 in Germany, all of this has no longer much meaning - It's just names. The constitution of 1919 claimed:
Advantages or disadvantages under the public law caused by birth or social rank are to be suspended. Aristocratic titles are simply part of the name and can no longer be awarded
Just like people owning double names ("Müller-Lüdenscheid") that sometimes like to drop part of their name in everyday usage, persons with names containing "van" or "von" might prefer to use or not use that - It's simply a matter of personal preference - Or like Goethe said:
Ein Titel und ein Orden hält im Gedränge manchen Puff ab...
The rule is simple - "von" is a part of a person's name - If they want to be called like that, it's just good practice to use the name they have to address them.
There's regional differences:
In most of southern Germany and Austria "von" and "von und zu" (see below) means "nobility". This can be "old", inherited titles as well as ennobled titles (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who is also a good example of use with and without title: If you refer to von Goethe before 1782, you should omit the "von" - He received his title during that year).
"von und zu" means "old nobility" - The family was part of the aristocracy since the middle ages and still sits on their traditional aristocratic estate - Karl Theodor Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg (a former MP and grandfather of former Minister of Defence Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg) would be an example of "old nobility".
In the Netherlands, on the other hand, "van" has nothing to do with nobility - it's just the place of origin of a name. Due to geographic proximity, the usage of "von" seems to be at least partially similar in parts of northern Germany.
With noble ranks factually abolished in 1919 in Germany, all of this has no longer much meaning - It's just names. The constitution of 1919 claimed:
Advantages or disadvantages under the public law caused by birth or social rank are to be suspended. Aristocratic titles are simply part of the name and can no longer be awarded
Just like people owning double names ("Müller-Lüdenscheid") that sometimes like to drop part of their name in everyday usage, persons with names containing "van" or "von" might prefer to use or not use that - It's simply a matter of personal preference - Or like Goethe said:
Ein Titel und ein Orden hält im Gedränge manchen Puff ab...
The rule is simple - "von" is a part of a person's name - If they want to be called like that, it's just good practice to use the name they have to address them.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 15 hours ago
tofrotofro
44.4k146133
44.4k146133
add a comment |
add a comment |
As far as I'm aware, the "von" is almost always dropped when referring to a person by surname, except perhaps in very formal circumstances where it would feel rude not to use exactly the correct name, e.g. in the news. (And a newsspeaker would probably use the correct name of a living person. I don't think they'd ever refer to Schiller as "von Schiller".)
3
I strongly disagree. One says von Neumann; nobody would understand Neumann.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
I totally agree. Examples: Beethovenstraße and not von-Beethoven-Straße, Stauffenbergattentat and not von-Stauffenberg-Attentat, Bismarckhering and not von-Bismarck-Hering, etc..
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
@scienceponder Beethoven is Dutch. In any case, von Neumann is a counterexample.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
@c.p. sorry a instead of o of course.
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
add a comment |
As far as I'm aware, the "von" is almost always dropped when referring to a person by surname, except perhaps in very formal circumstances where it would feel rude not to use exactly the correct name, e.g. in the news. (And a newsspeaker would probably use the correct name of a living person. I don't think they'd ever refer to Schiller as "von Schiller".)
3
I strongly disagree. One says von Neumann; nobody would understand Neumann.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
I totally agree. Examples: Beethovenstraße and not von-Beethoven-Straße, Stauffenbergattentat and not von-Stauffenberg-Attentat, Bismarckhering and not von-Bismarck-Hering, etc..
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
@scienceponder Beethoven is Dutch. In any case, von Neumann is a counterexample.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
@c.p. sorry a instead of o of course.
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
add a comment |
As far as I'm aware, the "von" is almost always dropped when referring to a person by surname, except perhaps in very formal circumstances where it would feel rude not to use exactly the correct name, e.g. in the news. (And a newsspeaker would probably use the correct name of a living person. I don't think they'd ever refer to Schiller as "von Schiller".)
As far as I'm aware, the "von" is almost always dropped when referring to a person by surname, except perhaps in very formal circumstances where it would feel rude not to use exactly the correct name, e.g. in the news. (And a newsspeaker would probably use the correct name of a living person. I don't think they'd ever refer to Schiller as "von Schiller".)
answered 15 hours ago
sgfsgf
2,002422
2,002422
3
I strongly disagree. One says von Neumann; nobody would understand Neumann.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
I totally agree. Examples: Beethovenstraße and not von-Beethoven-Straße, Stauffenbergattentat and not von-Stauffenberg-Attentat, Bismarckhering and not von-Bismarck-Hering, etc..
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
@scienceponder Beethoven is Dutch. In any case, von Neumann is a counterexample.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
@c.p. sorry a instead of o of course.
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
add a comment |
3
I strongly disagree. One says von Neumann; nobody would understand Neumann.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
I totally agree. Examples: Beethovenstraße and not von-Beethoven-Straße, Stauffenbergattentat and not von-Stauffenberg-Attentat, Bismarckhering and not von-Bismarck-Hering, etc..
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
@scienceponder Beethoven is Dutch. In any case, von Neumann is a counterexample.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
@c.p. sorry a instead of o of course.
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
3
3
I strongly disagree. One says von Neumann; nobody would understand Neumann.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
I strongly disagree. One says von Neumann; nobody would understand Neumann.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
I totally agree. Examples: Beethovenstraße and not von-Beethoven-Straße, Stauffenbergattentat and not von-Stauffenberg-Attentat, Bismarckhering and not von-Bismarck-Hering, etc..
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
I totally agree. Examples: Beethovenstraße and not von-Beethoven-Straße, Stauffenbergattentat and not von-Stauffenberg-Attentat, Bismarckhering and not von-Bismarck-Hering, etc..
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
@scienceponder Beethoven is Dutch. In any case, von Neumann is a counterexample.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
@scienceponder Beethoven is Dutch. In any case, von Neumann is a counterexample.
– c.p.
8 hours ago
@c.p. sorry a instead of o of course.
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
@c.p. sorry a instead of o of course.
– scienceponder
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to German Language Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgerman.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f52074%2fwhen-referring-to-a-person-only-by-their-surname-should-i-keep-or-omit-von%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
The dirigible Hindenburg as opposed to the person never possessed a von.
– guidot
14 hours ago