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Ab major 9th chord in Bach


Training and Influences of J. S. BachLearning the musical concepts in the book “Gödel, Escher, Bach”iii9 - I progression in Bach?Bach: How is this mordent to be realized? Why do people play it like a trill?Chord in the Bach d-minor preludeWhat musical instruments JS Bach owned and had purchased during his career?Bach Double Variation from Partita 1 for Solo ViolinHow does Bach harmonise chromatics?Has the Bach Compendium been completed?Should I practice some J.S. Bach for piano technique and where should I start?













1















measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I
Measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I



I was looking at the Prelude VII by Bach and noticed that on the measure 23 Bach ended that phrase with a Ab maj9 chord. I was wondering how often do extended chords show up in Bach's work. When listening the chord sounded kinda of jazzy. Also I have heard of rules being in place during the Baroque area about dissonant chords so how did this one slip through?










share|improve this question









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Diego Alvarez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    1















    measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I
    Measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I



    I was looking at the Prelude VII by Bach and noticed that on the measure 23 Bach ended that phrase with a Ab maj9 chord. I was wondering how often do extended chords show up in Bach's work. When listening the chord sounded kinda of jazzy. Also I have heard of rules being in place during the Baroque area about dissonant chords so how did this one slip through?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Diego Alvarez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      1












      1








      1








      measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I
      Measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I



      I was looking at the Prelude VII by Bach and noticed that on the measure 23 Bach ended that phrase with a Ab maj9 chord. I was wondering how often do extended chords show up in Bach's work. When listening the chord sounded kinda of jazzy. Also I have heard of rules being in place during the Baroque area about dissonant chords so how did this one slip through?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Diego Alvarez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I
      Measures 21-24 in Prelude VII from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier I



      I was looking at the Prelude VII by Bach and noticed that on the measure 23 Bach ended that phrase with a Ab maj9 chord. I was wondering how often do extended chords show up in Bach's work. When listening the chord sounded kinda of jazzy. Also I have heard of rules being in place during the Baroque area about dissonant chords so how did this one slip through?







      jazz j-s-bach baroque-period






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Diego Alvarez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Diego Alvarez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 27 mins ago









      replete

      4,69011632




      4,69011632






      New contributor




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      asked 57 mins ago









      Diego AlvarezDiego Alvarez

      61




      61




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      New contributor





      Diego Alvarez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          2 Answers
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          4














          It doesn't end the phrase. The G in the soprano and the Bb in the tenor are suspensions, which resolve downward by step on the next beat. The end of the phrase comes later. The rules you mention about dissonances allow just about anything so long as the parts resolve in a prescribed way.



          As for how often rich harmonies like this occur in Bach: they're extremely commonplace. They occur because he was composing from the horizontal perspective (thinking of voice leading, the motion of individual voices) as much as the vertical (thinking of harmonies).



          Sometimes he comes up with harmonies that would not be heard again for another couple of centuries, like this extreme example from the end of the chorale prelude Kyrie, Gott heiliger Geist BWV 671:



          enter image description here



          Analysing this passage purely from the vertical point of view (naming the harmonies) would be a messy sort of fun, but might not be fully enlightening, because the passage is as much about the descending motion of the individual parts.



          You can read claims that J. S. Bach thought horizontally, not vertically. That's surely too categorical. His mind is unknowable, so it's anyone's guess how much of his thought was on voice leading, and how much the resulting harmonies. It would surely have varied depending on the style and texture he was writing, too. What's beyond doubt is that he gives us plenty to value in both ways.






          share|improve this answer






























            3














            It's actually a suspension, which is to say that the actual chord is F Minor (F, A-flat, C, in first inversion) but the G and B-flat are held over from the previous chord before moving to F and A-flat. Dissonant suspensions resolving to consonant chords are very common in Baroque music. In jazz, 9th chords are treated as normal chords, so a G#maj9 might follow a D#maj9 and then be followed by a C#maj9 without suspensions.



            I knew someone who didn't like modern music because "the dissonances never resolve." That's a fair criticism, I suppose. Bach can have some absolutely crazy sequences of chords, as in the Grave section of the Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C major for organ (BWV 564), but they eventually resolve to C major. Ives and Stravinsky pound out the dissonances with no resolution. Modern jazz says, "Hey, these so-called dissonant chords are actually very beautiful. Just listen to them. Really listen." Ravel and Poulenc agree.






            share|improve this answer























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              2 Answers
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              2 Answers
              2






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              active

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              4














              It doesn't end the phrase. The G in the soprano and the Bb in the tenor are suspensions, which resolve downward by step on the next beat. The end of the phrase comes later. The rules you mention about dissonances allow just about anything so long as the parts resolve in a prescribed way.



              As for how often rich harmonies like this occur in Bach: they're extremely commonplace. They occur because he was composing from the horizontal perspective (thinking of voice leading, the motion of individual voices) as much as the vertical (thinking of harmonies).



              Sometimes he comes up with harmonies that would not be heard again for another couple of centuries, like this extreme example from the end of the chorale prelude Kyrie, Gott heiliger Geist BWV 671:



              enter image description here



              Analysing this passage purely from the vertical point of view (naming the harmonies) would be a messy sort of fun, but might not be fully enlightening, because the passage is as much about the descending motion of the individual parts.



              You can read claims that J. S. Bach thought horizontally, not vertically. That's surely too categorical. His mind is unknowable, so it's anyone's guess how much of his thought was on voice leading, and how much the resulting harmonies. It would surely have varied depending on the style and texture he was writing, too. What's beyond doubt is that he gives us plenty to value in both ways.






              share|improve this answer



























                4














                It doesn't end the phrase. The G in the soprano and the Bb in the tenor are suspensions, which resolve downward by step on the next beat. The end of the phrase comes later. The rules you mention about dissonances allow just about anything so long as the parts resolve in a prescribed way.



                As for how often rich harmonies like this occur in Bach: they're extremely commonplace. They occur because he was composing from the horizontal perspective (thinking of voice leading, the motion of individual voices) as much as the vertical (thinking of harmonies).



                Sometimes he comes up with harmonies that would not be heard again for another couple of centuries, like this extreme example from the end of the chorale prelude Kyrie, Gott heiliger Geist BWV 671:



                enter image description here



                Analysing this passage purely from the vertical point of view (naming the harmonies) would be a messy sort of fun, but might not be fully enlightening, because the passage is as much about the descending motion of the individual parts.



                You can read claims that J. S. Bach thought horizontally, not vertically. That's surely too categorical. His mind is unknowable, so it's anyone's guess how much of his thought was on voice leading, and how much the resulting harmonies. It would surely have varied depending on the style and texture he was writing, too. What's beyond doubt is that he gives us plenty to value in both ways.






                share|improve this answer

























                  4












                  4








                  4







                  It doesn't end the phrase. The G in the soprano and the Bb in the tenor are suspensions, which resolve downward by step on the next beat. The end of the phrase comes later. The rules you mention about dissonances allow just about anything so long as the parts resolve in a prescribed way.



                  As for how often rich harmonies like this occur in Bach: they're extremely commonplace. They occur because he was composing from the horizontal perspective (thinking of voice leading, the motion of individual voices) as much as the vertical (thinking of harmonies).



                  Sometimes he comes up with harmonies that would not be heard again for another couple of centuries, like this extreme example from the end of the chorale prelude Kyrie, Gott heiliger Geist BWV 671:



                  enter image description here



                  Analysing this passage purely from the vertical point of view (naming the harmonies) would be a messy sort of fun, but might not be fully enlightening, because the passage is as much about the descending motion of the individual parts.



                  You can read claims that J. S. Bach thought horizontally, not vertically. That's surely too categorical. His mind is unknowable, so it's anyone's guess how much of his thought was on voice leading, and how much the resulting harmonies. It would surely have varied depending on the style and texture he was writing, too. What's beyond doubt is that he gives us plenty to value in both ways.






                  share|improve this answer













                  It doesn't end the phrase. The G in the soprano and the Bb in the tenor are suspensions, which resolve downward by step on the next beat. The end of the phrase comes later. The rules you mention about dissonances allow just about anything so long as the parts resolve in a prescribed way.



                  As for how often rich harmonies like this occur in Bach: they're extremely commonplace. They occur because he was composing from the horizontal perspective (thinking of voice leading, the motion of individual voices) as much as the vertical (thinking of harmonies).



                  Sometimes he comes up with harmonies that would not be heard again for another couple of centuries, like this extreme example from the end of the chorale prelude Kyrie, Gott heiliger Geist BWV 671:



                  enter image description here



                  Analysing this passage purely from the vertical point of view (naming the harmonies) would be a messy sort of fun, but might not be fully enlightening, because the passage is as much about the descending motion of the individual parts.



                  You can read claims that J. S. Bach thought horizontally, not vertically. That's surely too categorical. His mind is unknowable, so it's anyone's guess how much of his thought was on voice leading, and how much the resulting harmonies. It would surely have varied depending on the style and texture he was writing, too. What's beyond doubt is that he gives us plenty to value in both ways.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 28 mins ago









                  repletereplete

                  4,69011632




                  4,69011632





















                      3














                      It's actually a suspension, which is to say that the actual chord is F Minor (F, A-flat, C, in first inversion) but the G and B-flat are held over from the previous chord before moving to F and A-flat. Dissonant suspensions resolving to consonant chords are very common in Baroque music. In jazz, 9th chords are treated as normal chords, so a G#maj9 might follow a D#maj9 and then be followed by a C#maj9 without suspensions.



                      I knew someone who didn't like modern music because "the dissonances never resolve." That's a fair criticism, I suppose. Bach can have some absolutely crazy sequences of chords, as in the Grave section of the Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C major for organ (BWV 564), but they eventually resolve to C major. Ives and Stravinsky pound out the dissonances with no resolution. Modern jazz says, "Hey, these so-called dissonant chords are actually very beautiful. Just listen to them. Really listen." Ravel and Poulenc agree.






                      share|improve this answer



























                        3














                        It's actually a suspension, which is to say that the actual chord is F Minor (F, A-flat, C, in first inversion) but the G and B-flat are held over from the previous chord before moving to F and A-flat. Dissonant suspensions resolving to consonant chords are very common in Baroque music. In jazz, 9th chords are treated as normal chords, so a G#maj9 might follow a D#maj9 and then be followed by a C#maj9 without suspensions.



                        I knew someone who didn't like modern music because "the dissonances never resolve." That's a fair criticism, I suppose. Bach can have some absolutely crazy sequences of chords, as in the Grave section of the Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C major for organ (BWV 564), but they eventually resolve to C major. Ives and Stravinsky pound out the dissonances with no resolution. Modern jazz says, "Hey, these so-called dissonant chords are actually very beautiful. Just listen to them. Really listen." Ravel and Poulenc agree.






                        share|improve this answer

























                          3












                          3








                          3







                          It's actually a suspension, which is to say that the actual chord is F Minor (F, A-flat, C, in first inversion) but the G and B-flat are held over from the previous chord before moving to F and A-flat. Dissonant suspensions resolving to consonant chords are very common in Baroque music. In jazz, 9th chords are treated as normal chords, so a G#maj9 might follow a D#maj9 and then be followed by a C#maj9 without suspensions.



                          I knew someone who didn't like modern music because "the dissonances never resolve." That's a fair criticism, I suppose. Bach can have some absolutely crazy sequences of chords, as in the Grave section of the Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C major for organ (BWV 564), but they eventually resolve to C major. Ives and Stravinsky pound out the dissonances with no resolution. Modern jazz says, "Hey, these so-called dissonant chords are actually very beautiful. Just listen to them. Really listen." Ravel and Poulenc agree.






                          share|improve this answer













                          It's actually a suspension, which is to say that the actual chord is F Minor (F, A-flat, C, in first inversion) but the G and B-flat are held over from the previous chord before moving to F and A-flat. Dissonant suspensions resolving to consonant chords are very common in Baroque music. In jazz, 9th chords are treated as normal chords, so a G#maj9 might follow a D#maj9 and then be followed by a C#maj9 without suspensions.



                          I knew someone who didn't like modern music because "the dissonances never resolve." That's a fair criticism, I suppose. Bach can have some absolutely crazy sequences of chords, as in the Grave section of the Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C major for organ (BWV 564), but they eventually resolve to C major. Ives and Stravinsky pound out the dissonances with no resolution. Modern jazz says, "Hey, these so-called dissonant chords are actually very beautiful. Just listen to them. Really listen." Ravel and Poulenc agree.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 24 mins ago









                          Mark LuttonMark Lutton

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