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Birthday girl's casino game
A first choice diePicking a time to betGambling in a rigged casinoOptimal game of Bluff (not the wikipedia one)Gambling with the gamblerDeceptive dice gameMoney Game with $1025$ cardsOptimal solution to a modified poker gameAnother Unconventional Dice Blackjack game - is Nash equilibrium here?It's a serious game when six-packs are at stake
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
My daughter's birthday is coming up. Here's a fun party game we can play to celebrate. (Bring your wallet!)
- I have a pair of 6-sided dice, and a standard deck of 52 cards.
- You place your stake (say €1) on the table and get to pick either my age, or my daughter's age. Both of these numbers are known to both of us. I will play the remaining one.
- I choose to either roll the dice, or pick two random cards from the deck.
- We multiply the two numbers. (Aces are counted as 1.) If the product is the number you picked, you win back three times your stake (i.e. your €1 plus €2 profit). If the product is the number I have, you lose your stake. If it's neither, you get your stake back.
- Note that both numbers are possible to make with both dice and cards.
If you want, we can also play this game after my daughter's upcoming birthday.
I cannot lose in this game in the long run. How old am I? How old will my daughter be this year?
probability game game-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My daughter's birthday is coming up. Here's a fun party game we can play to celebrate. (Bring your wallet!)
- I have a pair of 6-sided dice, and a standard deck of 52 cards.
- You place your stake (say €1) on the table and get to pick either my age, or my daughter's age. Both of these numbers are known to both of us. I will play the remaining one.
- I choose to either roll the dice, or pick two random cards from the deck.
- We multiply the two numbers. (Aces are counted as 1.) If the product is the number you picked, you win back three times your stake (i.e. your €1 plus €2 profit). If the product is the number I have, you lose your stake. If it's neither, you get your stake back.
- Note that both numbers are possible to make with both dice and cards.
If you want, we can also play this game after my daughter's upcoming birthday.
I cannot lose in this game in the long run. How old am I? How old will my daughter be this year?
probability game game-theory
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@hexomino No, the house doesn't have to be able to win. A draw is a valid answer.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Yeah, both before and after it the house can't lose.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Ah, that's not intended. I'll make an edit.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Jafe, can your daughters age still be made up from both dice and cards after her birthday?
$endgroup$
– Bee
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bee Yeah, all bullet points concerning the game still hold after her birthday.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My daughter's birthday is coming up. Here's a fun party game we can play to celebrate. (Bring your wallet!)
- I have a pair of 6-sided dice, and a standard deck of 52 cards.
- You place your stake (say €1) on the table and get to pick either my age, or my daughter's age. Both of these numbers are known to both of us. I will play the remaining one.
- I choose to either roll the dice, or pick two random cards from the deck.
- We multiply the two numbers. (Aces are counted as 1.) If the product is the number you picked, you win back three times your stake (i.e. your €1 plus €2 profit). If the product is the number I have, you lose your stake. If it's neither, you get your stake back.
- Note that both numbers are possible to make with both dice and cards.
If you want, we can also play this game after my daughter's upcoming birthday.
I cannot lose in this game in the long run. How old am I? How old will my daughter be this year?
probability game game-theory
$endgroup$
My daughter's birthday is coming up. Here's a fun party game we can play to celebrate. (Bring your wallet!)
- I have a pair of 6-sided dice, and a standard deck of 52 cards.
- You place your stake (say €1) on the table and get to pick either my age, or my daughter's age. Both of these numbers are known to both of us. I will play the remaining one.
- I choose to either roll the dice, or pick two random cards from the deck.
- We multiply the two numbers. (Aces are counted as 1.) If the product is the number you picked, you win back three times your stake (i.e. your €1 plus €2 profit). If the product is the number I have, you lose your stake. If it's neither, you get your stake back.
- Note that both numbers are possible to make with both dice and cards.
If you want, we can also play this game after my daughter's upcoming birthday.
I cannot lose in this game in the long run. How old am I? How old will my daughter be this year?
probability game game-theory
probability game game-theory
edited 7 hours ago
jafe
asked 8 hours ago
jafejafe
31.3k4 gold badges88 silver badges318 bronze badges
31.3k4 gold badges88 silver badges318 bronze badges
$begingroup$
@hexomino No, the house doesn't have to be able to win. A draw is a valid answer.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Yeah, both before and after it the house can't lose.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Ah, that's not intended. I'll make an edit.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Jafe, can your daughters age still be made up from both dice and cards after her birthday?
$endgroup$
– Bee
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bee Yeah, all bullet points concerning the game still hold after her birthday.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
@hexomino No, the house doesn't have to be able to win. A draw is a valid answer.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Yeah, both before and after it the house can't lose.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Ah, that's not intended. I'll make an edit.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Jafe, can your daughters age still be made up from both dice and cards after her birthday?
$endgroup$
– Bee
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bee Yeah, all bullet points concerning the game still hold after her birthday.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino No, the house doesn't have to be able to win. A draw is a valid answer.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino No, the house doesn't have to be able to win. A draw is a valid answer.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Yeah, both before and after it the house can't lose.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Yeah, both before and after it the house can't lose.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Ah, that's not intended. I'll make an edit.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@hexomino Ah, that's not intended. I'll make an edit.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Jafe, can your daughters age still be made up from both dice and cards after her birthday?
$endgroup$
– Bee
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Jafe, can your daughters age still be made up from both dice and cards after her birthday?
$endgroup$
– Bee
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bee Yeah, all bullet points concerning the game still hold after her birthday.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bee Yeah, all bullet points concerning the game still hold after her birthday.
$endgroup$
– jafe
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I think that the solution is
You are $36$ and your daughter is $2$ (she will turn $3$ at her next birthday).
Strategy
If the player picks your age, roll the dice.
If the player picks your daughter's age, choose the cards.
In both cases you are, at least, twice as likely to win as your opponent which means that your earnings will be non-negative in the long run (the expectation value for your earnings is non-negative).
Reasoning
Using the dice, your age occurs with probability $frac136$
and the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac118$ (in both cases).
Using the deck of cards the parent's age occurs with probability $4 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac19663$.
while the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac213 times frac451 = frac8663$ (in both cases).
Why I chose these numbers
Using just the dice, we can list all the possible products. Given that the daughter's age must be the first in two consecutive entries in this list, this leaves the possibilities for the daughter's current age as being either $1,2,3,4,5,8,9,15$ or $24$.
For all of these values, at least one of the two consecutive ages will arise as the product of the two dice in at least two of the $36$ possible outcomes. This means, to enact a simple strategy where the player's choice directly informs the parent's choice, the parent's age must occur with probability $ leq frac136$ or $geq frac19$. This means the parent's age must be one of $1,6,9,12,16,25,36$.
When analysing the cards, this probability reasoning must flip. Heuristically, we can get an idea for what happens by analysing the number of products when choosing two numbers from the range $1$ to $13$ and multiplying (the cards probability is subtly different but this will still give a good idea of how to proceed).
In this instance, the number of products is essentially unchanged for the values $1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,12,15,25$ while the number of products increases for the values $16, 24$ and $36$. Hence, one of the ages must be from this group of three.
If the parent's age is $16$, this needs to be half as likely as the daughters age in the dice case but, in the case of the cards the probability of $16$ is $2 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac11663$ while all the possibilities for the daughter's ages contain at least one value with probability $frac8663$ so we cannot guarantee a win here.
If the daughter's age is $24$, and the parent is older than the daughter then the daughter's age is more likely than the parent's age for both the dice and the cards and the player will always pick it.
Hence the parent's age must be $36$. The daughter's age must then be, at least, twice as likely as the parent's age for the dice, in both years. This restricts the possibilities for the daughter's current age to be $2,3,4$ or $5$.
Returning to the cards, the probability for getting $36$ is at least twice as likely as getting a $2, 3$ or a $5$ but less than twice as likely as getting a $4$ or a $6$. Hence, to make it work for both years, the daughter must be currently $2$ (turning $3$ at the next birthday).
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1
$begingroup$
This was my conclusion too, but I believe it fails the requirement that the dad "cannot lose in this game in the long run." In case the player always chooses the dad's age, then the dad's gain will follow a randow walk with a 50% proba that it tends towards -Infinite in the long run... Just like if we play indefinitely head or tail with a fair coin, I have a 50% proba of losing all my fortune. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Evargalo My interpretation was that the expectation value was non-negative. I'm not sure that there is a solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive although it's possible that there may be a different way to approach it.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I believe there is no solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive. I followed the same reasonning as you, and I think you got the only solution with a non-negative expectation value in the worst case.
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Skater not if the daughter's birthday happens first.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DarkThunder I've just expanded my answer a bit. The probability does go up for the cards in this case but not by enough to guarantee a win for both of the daughter's ages, as far as I can tell.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I think that the solution is
You are $36$ and your daughter is $2$ (she will turn $3$ at her next birthday).
Strategy
If the player picks your age, roll the dice.
If the player picks your daughter's age, choose the cards.
In both cases you are, at least, twice as likely to win as your opponent which means that your earnings will be non-negative in the long run (the expectation value for your earnings is non-negative).
Reasoning
Using the dice, your age occurs with probability $frac136$
and the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac118$ (in both cases).
Using the deck of cards the parent's age occurs with probability $4 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac19663$.
while the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac213 times frac451 = frac8663$ (in both cases).
Why I chose these numbers
Using just the dice, we can list all the possible products. Given that the daughter's age must be the first in two consecutive entries in this list, this leaves the possibilities for the daughter's current age as being either $1,2,3,4,5,8,9,15$ or $24$.
For all of these values, at least one of the two consecutive ages will arise as the product of the two dice in at least two of the $36$ possible outcomes. This means, to enact a simple strategy where the player's choice directly informs the parent's choice, the parent's age must occur with probability $ leq frac136$ or $geq frac19$. This means the parent's age must be one of $1,6,9,12,16,25,36$.
When analysing the cards, this probability reasoning must flip. Heuristically, we can get an idea for what happens by analysing the number of products when choosing two numbers from the range $1$ to $13$ and multiplying (the cards probability is subtly different but this will still give a good idea of how to proceed).
In this instance, the number of products is essentially unchanged for the values $1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,12,15,25$ while the number of products increases for the values $16, 24$ and $36$. Hence, one of the ages must be from this group of three.
If the parent's age is $16$, this needs to be half as likely as the daughters age in the dice case but, in the case of the cards the probability of $16$ is $2 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac11663$ while all the possibilities for the daughter's ages contain at least one value with probability $frac8663$ so we cannot guarantee a win here.
If the daughter's age is $24$, and the parent is older than the daughter then the daughter's age is more likely than the parent's age for both the dice and the cards and the player will always pick it.
Hence the parent's age must be $36$. The daughter's age must then be, at least, twice as likely as the parent's age for the dice, in both years. This restricts the possibilities for the daughter's current age to be $2,3,4$ or $5$.
Returning to the cards, the probability for getting $36$ is at least twice as likely as getting a $2, 3$ or a $5$ but less than twice as likely as getting a $4$ or a $6$. Hence, to make it work for both years, the daughter must be currently $2$ (turning $3$ at the next birthday).
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This was my conclusion too, but I believe it fails the requirement that the dad "cannot lose in this game in the long run." In case the player always chooses the dad's age, then the dad's gain will follow a randow walk with a 50% proba that it tends towards -Infinite in the long run... Just like if we play indefinitely head or tail with a fair coin, I have a 50% proba of losing all my fortune. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Evargalo My interpretation was that the expectation value was non-negative. I'm not sure that there is a solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive although it's possible that there may be a different way to approach it.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I believe there is no solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive. I followed the same reasonning as you, and I think you got the only solution with a non-negative expectation value in the worst case.
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Skater not if the daughter's birthday happens first.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DarkThunder I've just expanded my answer a bit. The probability does go up for the cards in this case but not by enough to guarantee a win for both of the daughter's ages, as far as I can tell.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I think that the solution is
You are $36$ and your daughter is $2$ (she will turn $3$ at her next birthday).
Strategy
If the player picks your age, roll the dice.
If the player picks your daughter's age, choose the cards.
In both cases you are, at least, twice as likely to win as your opponent which means that your earnings will be non-negative in the long run (the expectation value for your earnings is non-negative).
Reasoning
Using the dice, your age occurs with probability $frac136$
and the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac118$ (in both cases).
Using the deck of cards the parent's age occurs with probability $4 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac19663$.
while the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac213 times frac451 = frac8663$ (in both cases).
Why I chose these numbers
Using just the dice, we can list all the possible products. Given that the daughter's age must be the first in two consecutive entries in this list, this leaves the possibilities for the daughter's current age as being either $1,2,3,4,5,8,9,15$ or $24$.
For all of these values, at least one of the two consecutive ages will arise as the product of the two dice in at least two of the $36$ possible outcomes. This means, to enact a simple strategy where the player's choice directly informs the parent's choice, the parent's age must occur with probability $ leq frac136$ or $geq frac19$. This means the parent's age must be one of $1,6,9,12,16,25,36$.
When analysing the cards, this probability reasoning must flip. Heuristically, we can get an idea for what happens by analysing the number of products when choosing two numbers from the range $1$ to $13$ and multiplying (the cards probability is subtly different but this will still give a good idea of how to proceed).
In this instance, the number of products is essentially unchanged for the values $1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,12,15,25$ while the number of products increases for the values $16, 24$ and $36$. Hence, one of the ages must be from this group of three.
If the parent's age is $16$, this needs to be half as likely as the daughters age in the dice case but, in the case of the cards the probability of $16$ is $2 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac11663$ while all the possibilities for the daughter's ages contain at least one value with probability $frac8663$ so we cannot guarantee a win here.
If the daughter's age is $24$, and the parent is older than the daughter then the daughter's age is more likely than the parent's age for both the dice and the cards and the player will always pick it.
Hence the parent's age must be $36$. The daughter's age must then be, at least, twice as likely as the parent's age for the dice, in both years. This restricts the possibilities for the daughter's current age to be $2,3,4$ or $5$.
Returning to the cards, the probability for getting $36$ is at least twice as likely as getting a $2, 3$ or a $5$ but less than twice as likely as getting a $4$ or a $6$. Hence, to make it work for both years, the daughter must be currently $2$ (turning $3$ at the next birthday).
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This was my conclusion too, but I believe it fails the requirement that the dad "cannot lose in this game in the long run." In case the player always chooses the dad's age, then the dad's gain will follow a randow walk with a 50% proba that it tends towards -Infinite in the long run... Just like if we play indefinitely head or tail with a fair coin, I have a 50% proba of losing all my fortune. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Evargalo My interpretation was that the expectation value was non-negative. I'm not sure that there is a solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive although it's possible that there may be a different way to approach it.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I believe there is no solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive. I followed the same reasonning as you, and I think you got the only solution with a non-negative expectation value in the worst case.
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Skater not if the daughter's birthday happens first.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DarkThunder I've just expanded my answer a bit. The probability does go up for the cards in this case but not by enough to guarantee a win for both of the daughter's ages, as far as I can tell.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I think that the solution is
You are $36$ and your daughter is $2$ (she will turn $3$ at her next birthday).
Strategy
If the player picks your age, roll the dice.
If the player picks your daughter's age, choose the cards.
In both cases you are, at least, twice as likely to win as your opponent which means that your earnings will be non-negative in the long run (the expectation value for your earnings is non-negative).
Reasoning
Using the dice, your age occurs with probability $frac136$
and the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac118$ (in both cases).
Using the deck of cards the parent's age occurs with probability $4 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac19663$.
while the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac213 times frac451 = frac8663$ (in both cases).
Why I chose these numbers
Using just the dice, we can list all the possible products. Given that the daughter's age must be the first in two consecutive entries in this list, this leaves the possibilities for the daughter's current age as being either $1,2,3,4,5,8,9,15$ or $24$.
For all of these values, at least one of the two consecutive ages will arise as the product of the two dice in at least two of the $36$ possible outcomes. This means, to enact a simple strategy where the player's choice directly informs the parent's choice, the parent's age must occur with probability $ leq frac136$ or $geq frac19$. This means the parent's age must be one of $1,6,9,12,16,25,36$.
When analysing the cards, this probability reasoning must flip. Heuristically, we can get an idea for what happens by analysing the number of products when choosing two numbers from the range $1$ to $13$ and multiplying (the cards probability is subtly different but this will still give a good idea of how to proceed).
In this instance, the number of products is essentially unchanged for the values $1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,12,15,25$ while the number of products increases for the values $16, 24$ and $36$. Hence, one of the ages must be from this group of three.
If the parent's age is $16$, this needs to be half as likely as the daughters age in the dice case but, in the case of the cards the probability of $16$ is $2 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac11663$ while all the possibilities for the daughter's ages contain at least one value with probability $frac8663$ so we cannot guarantee a win here.
If the daughter's age is $24$, and the parent is older than the daughter then the daughter's age is more likely than the parent's age for both the dice and the cards and the player will always pick it.
Hence the parent's age must be $36$. The daughter's age must then be, at least, twice as likely as the parent's age for the dice, in both years. This restricts the possibilities for the daughter's current age to be $2,3,4$ or $5$.
Returning to the cards, the probability for getting $36$ is at least twice as likely as getting a $2, 3$ or a $5$ but less than twice as likely as getting a $4$ or a $6$. Hence, to make it work for both years, the daughter must be currently $2$ (turning $3$ at the next birthday).
$endgroup$
I think that the solution is
You are $36$ and your daughter is $2$ (she will turn $3$ at her next birthday).
Strategy
If the player picks your age, roll the dice.
If the player picks your daughter's age, choose the cards.
In both cases you are, at least, twice as likely to win as your opponent which means that your earnings will be non-negative in the long run (the expectation value for your earnings is non-negative).
Reasoning
Using the dice, your age occurs with probability $frac136$
and the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac118$ (in both cases).
Using the deck of cards the parent's age occurs with probability $4 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac19663$.
while the daughter's age occurs with probability $frac213 times frac451 = frac8663$ (in both cases).
Why I chose these numbers
Using just the dice, we can list all the possible products. Given that the daughter's age must be the first in two consecutive entries in this list, this leaves the possibilities for the daughter's current age as being either $1,2,3,4,5,8,9,15$ or $24$.
For all of these values, at least one of the two consecutive ages will arise as the product of the two dice in at least two of the $36$ possible outcomes. This means, to enact a simple strategy where the player's choice directly informs the parent's choice, the parent's age must occur with probability $ leq frac136$ or $geq frac19$. This means the parent's age must be one of $1,6,9,12,16,25,36$.
When analysing the cards, this probability reasoning must flip. Heuristically, we can get an idea for what happens by analysing the number of products when choosing two numbers from the range $1$ to $13$ and multiplying (the cards probability is subtly different but this will still give a good idea of how to proceed).
In this instance, the number of products is essentially unchanged for the values $1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,12,15,25$ while the number of products increases for the values $16, 24$ and $36$. Hence, one of the ages must be from this group of three.
If the parent's age is $16$, this needs to be half as likely as the daughters age in the dice case but, in the case of the cards the probability of $16$ is $2 times frac113 times frac451 + frac113 times frac351 = frac11663$ while all the possibilities for the daughter's ages contain at least one value with probability $frac8663$ so we cannot guarantee a win here.
If the daughter's age is $24$, and the parent is older than the daughter then the daughter's age is more likely than the parent's age for both the dice and the cards and the player will always pick it.
Hence the parent's age must be $36$. The daughter's age must then be, at least, twice as likely as the parent's age for the dice, in both years. This restricts the possibilities for the daughter's current age to be $2,3,4$ or $5$.
Returning to the cards, the probability for getting $36$ is at least twice as likely as getting a $2, 3$ or a $5$ but less than twice as likely as getting a $4$ or a $6$. Hence, to make it work for both years, the daughter must be currently $2$ (turning $3$ at the next birthday).
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
hexominohexomino
54.9k5 gold badges161 silver badges253 bronze badges
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1
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This was my conclusion too, but I believe it fails the requirement that the dad "cannot lose in this game in the long run." In case the player always chooses the dad's age, then the dad's gain will follow a randow walk with a 50% proba that it tends towards -Infinite in the long run... Just like if we play indefinitely head or tail with a fair coin, I have a 50% proba of losing all my fortune. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk
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– Evargalo
6 hours ago
1
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@Evargalo My interpretation was that the expectation value was non-negative. I'm not sure that there is a solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive although it's possible that there may be a different way to approach it.
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– hexomino
6 hours ago
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I believe there is no solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive. I followed the same reasonning as you, and I think you got the only solution with a non-negative expectation value in the worst case.
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– Evargalo
6 hours ago
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@Skater not if the daughter's birthday happens first.
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– hexomino
6 hours ago
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@DarkThunder I've just expanded my answer a bit. The probability does go up for the cards in this case but not by enough to guarantee a win for both of the daughter's ages, as far as I can tell.
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– hexomino
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
This was my conclusion too, but I believe it fails the requirement that the dad "cannot lose in this game in the long run." In case the player always chooses the dad's age, then the dad's gain will follow a randow walk with a 50% proba that it tends towards -Infinite in the long run... Just like if we play indefinitely head or tail with a fair coin, I have a 50% proba of losing all my fortune. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Evargalo My interpretation was that the expectation value was non-negative. I'm not sure that there is a solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive although it's possible that there may be a different way to approach it.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I believe there is no solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive. I followed the same reasonning as you, and I think you got the only solution with a non-negative expectation value in the worst case.
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Skater not if the daughter's birthday happens first.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DarkThunder I've just expanded my answer a bit. The probability does go up for the cards in this case but not by enough to guarantee a win for both of the daughter's ages, as far as I can tell.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
This was my conclusion too, but I believe it fails the requirement that the dad "cannot lose in this game in the long run." In case the player always chooses the dad's age, then the dad's gain will follow a randow walk with a 50% proba that it tends towards -Infinite in the long run... Just like if we play indefinitely head or tail with a fair coin, I have a 50% proba of losing all my fortune. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
This was my conclusion too, but I believe it fails the requirement that the dad "cannot lose in this game in the long run." In case the player always chooses the dad's age, then the dad's gain will follow a randow walk with a 50% proba that it tends towards -Infinite in the long run... Just like if we play indefinitely head or tail with a fair coin, I have a 50% proba of losing all my fortune. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Evargalo My interpretation was that the expectation value was non-negative. I'm not sure that there is a solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive although it's possible that there may be a different way to approach it.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Evargalo My interpretation was that the expectation value was non-negative. I'm not sure that there is a solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive although it's possible that there may be a different way to approach it.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I believe there is no solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive. I followed the same reasonning as you, and I think you got the only solution with a non-negative expectation value in the worst case.
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I believe there is no solution which makes the expectation value strictly positive. I followed the same reasonning as you, and I think you got the only solution with a non-negative expectation value in the worst case.
$endgroup$
– Evargalo
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Skater not if the daughter's birthday happens first.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Skater not if the daughter's birthday happens first.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DarkThunder I've just expanded my answer a bit. The probability does go up for the cards in this case but not by enough to guarantee a win for both of the daughter's ages, as far as I can tell.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DarkThunder I've just expanded my answer a bit. The probability does go up for the cards in this case but not by enough to guarantee a win for both of the daughter's ages, as far as I can tell.
$endgroup$
– hexomino
6 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
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$begingroup$
@hexomino No, the house doesn't have to be able to win. A draw is a valid answer.
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– jafe
7 hours ago
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@hexomino Yeah, both before and after it the house can't lose.
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– jafe
7 hours ago
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@hexomino Ah, that's not intended. I'll make an edit.
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– jafe
7 hours ago
1
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@Jafe, can your daughters age still be made up from both dice and cards after her birthday?
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– Bee
7 hours ago
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@Bee Yeah, all bullet points concerning the game still hold after her birthday.
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– jafe
7 hours ago