Why is the G major to Bb major resolution so strong?Bass chord progressions in “Killing me softly”Scale degree in minor keyHow do I rationalize this interesting chord in Mozart K. 331?Modulating from A-flat major to C major (Beethoven)Interpretation of this Chord ProgressionHarmonic Minor Progression UnderstandingUsing Roman Numeral Notation with Notes in the Bass (not figured bass)Definition of Functional HarmonyUse of the VI and v chord in a minor key, subdominant and dominant functional use?Chord progression conveniency depending on the harmonic rhythm
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Why is the G major to Bb major resolution so strong?
Bass chord progressions in “Killing me softly”Scale degree in minor keyHow do I rationalize this interesting chord in Mozart K. 331?Modulating from A-flat major to C major (Beethoven)Interpretation of this Chord ProgressionHarmonic Minor Progression UnderstandingUsing Roman Numeral Notation with Notes in the Bass (not figured bass)Definition of Functional HarmonyUse of the VI and v chord in a minor key, subdominant and dominant functional use?Chord progression conveniency depending on the harmonic rhythm
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So, about a year ago, I composed a nocturne in Bb. And I used this harmonic progression in the B sections of it:
Bb -> Eb -> C -> F -> Gm -> G ->Bb
Now, out of the 7 chords in this progression(6 if you count both appearances of Bb as a single chord and not 2), only 2 are non-diatonic to Bb. Those being C and G.
The use of C in place of Cm is understandable. The piece sounded peaceful, so there was no need to interrupt that peacefulness by using Cm. And I used the G as a dominant function chord so it made sense that it was major. Now typically, movement by thirds is weak. But also typical is for that movement by thirds to involve 1 major chord and 1 minor chord, for example, this:
C -> Em -> C
That is not what I have going on here with this G to Bb motion. So let's look closer at the chords. Now I use them in root position but here, I will show the smoothest voice leading for most of the chords. Here they are with a Roman numeral analysis and how I would describe this chord progression. Tonic chords circled in green, subdominant area circled in blue, deceptive cadence circled in red, and the substitute dominant being pointed to.
So as you can see, the G major that I am using as a dominant function chord would in Roman numeral analysis be considered the VI chord of Bb major if you were to view the whole thing as being in Bb as I just did. The C major I considered to be the II chord, replacing the ii chord which would be C minor. It didn't feel to me as though it was a V/V because it was replacing the ii chord. So it still had that subdominant feel to it. Plus, C is the submediant note of Eb and chords that are a third apart tend to have the same functions. So the C chord is subdominant.
I think there are 2 mechanisms behind why the VI is working as a substitute dominant here. First off, it comes right before the tonic which just by itself gives the feel of a resolution. Second, I think half steps are the primary source of the strong resolution. The B in the G major chord wants to resolve down a half step to Bb. When you combine it with the D which doesn't want to move, and the G which wants to move down to F but can easily go up a third in the bass without compromising the resolution, you have a pretty good substitute dominant.
But, is this the reason why my G major to Bb major resolution works as well as it does?
EDIT: Since one of you asked for it, here is the nocturne that I composed. First instance of the chord progression I mention in this question is at 0:30 in the video.
You will also hear me use 2:3 polyrhythms both when I go to and from Bb minor to add those moments of intensity. Those sections are based around the circle of fifths.
chord-progressions functional-harmony
add a comment |
So, about a year ago, I composed a nocturne in Bb. And I used this harmonic progression in the B sections of it:
Bb -> Eb -> C -> F -> Gm -> G ->Bb
Now, out of the 7 chords in this progression(6 if you count both appearances of Bb as a single chord and not 2), only 2 are non-diatonic to Bb. Those being C and G.
The use of C in place of Cm is understandable. The piece sounded peaceful, so there was no need to interrupt that peacefulness by using Cm. And I used the G as a dominant function chord so it made sense that it was major. Now typically, movement by thirds is weak. But also typical is for that movement by thirds to involve 1 major chord and 1 minor chord, for example, this:
C -> Em -> C
That is not what I have going on here with this G to Bb motion. So let's look closer at the chords. Now I use them in root position but here, I will show the smoothest voice leading for most of the chords. Here they are with a Roman numeral analysis and how I would describe this chord progression. Tonic chords circled in green, subdominant area circled in blue, deceptive cadence circled in red, and the substitute dominant being pointed to.
So as you can see, the G major that I am using as a dominant function chord would in Roman numeral analysis be considered the VI chord of Bb major if you were to view the whole thing as being in Bb as I just did. The C major I considered to be the II chord, replacing the ii chord which would be C minor. It didn't feel to me as though it was a V/V because it was replacing the ii chord. So it still had that subdominant feel to it. Plus, C is the submediant note of Eb and chords that are a third apart tend to have the same functions. So the C chord is subdominant.
I think there are 2 mechanisms behind why the VI is working as a substitute dominant here. First off, it comes right before the tonic which just by itself gives the feel of a resolution. Second, I think half steps are the primary source of the strong resolution. The B in the G major chord wants to resolve down a half step to Bb. When you combine it with the D which doesn't want to move, and the G which wants to move down to F but can easily go up a third in the bass without compromising the resolution, you have a pretty good substitute dominant.
But, is this the reason why my G major to Bb major resolution works as well as it does?
EDIT: Since one of you asked for it, here is the nocturne that I composed. First instance of the chord progression I mention in this question is at 0:30 in the video.
You will also hear me use 2:3 polyrhythms both when I go to and from Bb minor to add those moments of intensity. Those sections are based around the circle of fifths.
chord-progressions functional-harmony
I personally don't think that the G works at all as a dominant to B♭. To me this is a picardy third of the relative minor key. If this resolution works well in you piece, this likely has melodic rather than harmonic reasons.
– leftaroundabout
8 hours ago
add a comment |
So, about a year ago, I composed a nocturne in Bb. And I used this harmonic progression in the B sections of it:
Bb -> Eb -> C -> F -> Gm -> G ->Bb
Now, out of the 7 chords in this progression(6 if you count both appearances of Bb as a single chord and not 2), only 2 are non-diatonic to Bb. Those being C and G.
The use of C in place of Cm is understandable. The piece sounded peaceful, so there was no need to interrupt that peacefulness by using Cm. And I used the G as a dominant function chord so it made sense that it was major. Now typically, movement by thirds is weak. But also typical is for that movement by thirds to involve 1 major chord and 1 minor chord, for example, this:
C -> Em -> C
That is not what I have going on here with this G to Bb motion. So let's look closer at the chords. Now I use them in root position but here, I will show the smoothest voice leading for most of the chords. Here they are with a Roman numeral analysis and how I would describe this chord progression. Tonic chords circled in green, subdominant area circled in blue, deceptive cadence circled in red, and the substitute dominant being pointed to.
So as you can see, the G major that I am using as a dominant function chord would in Roman numeral analysis be considered the VI chord of Bb major if you were to view the whole thing as being in Bb as I just did. The C major I considered to be the II chord, replacing the ii chord which would be C minor. It didn't feel to me as though it was a V/V because it was replacing the ii chord. So it still had that subdominant feel to it. Plus, C is the submediant note of Eb and chords that are a third apart tend to have the same functions. So the C chord is subdominant.
I think there are 2 mechanisms behind why the VI is working as a substitute dominant here. First off, it comes right before the tonic which just by itself gives the feel of a resolution. Second, I think half steps are the primary source of the strong resolution. The B in the G major chord wants to resolve down a half step to Bb. When you combine it with the D which doesn't want to move, and the G which wants to move down to F but can easily go up a third in the bass without compromising the resolution, you have a pretty good substitute dominant.
But, is this the reason why my G major to Bb major resolution works as well as it does?
EDIT: Since one of you asked for it, here is the nocturne that I composed. First instance of the chord progression I mention in this question is at 0:30 in the video.
You will also hear me use 2:3 polyrhythms both when I go to and from Bb minor to add those moments of intensity. Those sections are based around the circle of fifths.
chord-progressions functional-harmony
So, about a year ago, I composed a nocturne in Bb. And I used this harmonic progression in the B sections of it:
Bb -> Eb -> C -> F -> Gm -> G ->Bb
Now, out of the 7 chords in this progression(6 if you count both appearances of Bb as a single chord and not 2), only 2 are non-diatonic to Bb. Those being C and G.
The use of C in place of Cm is understandable. The piece sounded peaceful, so there was no need to interrupt that peacefulness by using Cm. And I used the G as a dominant function chord so it made sense that it was major. Now typically, movement by thirds is weak. But also typical is for that movement by thirds to involve 1 major chord and 1 minor chord, for example, this:
C -> Em -> C
That is not what I have going on here with this G to Bb motion. So let's look closer at the chords. Now I use them in root position but here, I will show the smoothest voice leading for most of the chords. Here they are with a Roman numeral analysis and how I would describe this chord progression. Tonic chords circled in green, subdominant area circled in blue, deceptive cadence circled in red, and the substitute dominant being pointed to.
So as you can see, the G major that I am using as a dominant function chord would in Roman numeral analysis be considered the VI chord of Bb major if you were to view the whole thing as being in Bb as I just did. The C major I considered to be the II chord, replacing the ii chord which would be C minor. It didn't feel to me as though it was a V/V because it was replacing the ii chord. So it still had that subdominant feel to it. Plus, C is the submediant note of Eb and chords that are a third apart tend to have the same functions. So the C chord is subdominant.
I think there are 2 mechanisms behind why the VI is working as a substitute dominant here. First off, it comes right before the tonic which just by itself gives the feel of a resolution. Second, I think half steps are the primary source of the strong resolution. The B in the G major chord wants to resolve down a half step to Bb. When you combine it with the D which doesn't want to move, and the G which wants to move down to F but can easily go up a third in the bass without compromising the resolution, you have a pretty good substitute dominant.
But, is this the reason why my G major to Bb major resolution works as well as it does?
EDIT: Since one of you asked for it, here is the nocturne that I composed. First instance of the chord progression I mention in this question is at 0:30 in the video.
You will also hear me use 2:3 polyrhythms both when I go to and from Bb minor to add those moments of intensity. Those sections are based around the circle of fifths.
chord-progressions functional-harmony
chord-progressions functional-harmony
edited 6 hours ago
Caters
asked 8 hours ago
CatersCaters
1,4821 gold badge11 silver badges26 bronze badges
1,4821 gold badge11 silver badges26 bronze badges
I personally don't think that the G works at all as a dominant to B♭. To me this is a picardy third of the relative minor key. If this resolution works well in you piece, this likely has melodic rather than harmonic reasons.
– leftaroundabout
8 hours ago
add a comment |
I personally don't think that the G works at all as a dominant to B♭. To me this is a picardy third of the relative minor key. If this resolution works well in you piece, this likely has melodic rather than harmonic reasons.
– leftaroundabout
8 hours ago
I personally don't think that the G works at all as a dominant to B♭. To me this is a picardy third of the relative minor key. If this resolution works well in you piece, this likely has melodic rather than harmonic reasons.
– leftaroundabout
8 hours ago
I personally don't think that the G works at all as a dominant to B♭. To me this is a picardy third of the relative minor key. If this resolution works well in you piece, this likely has melodic rather than harmonic reasons.
– leftaroundabout
8 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
I would hesitate to call this VI chord a substitute dominant. Submediant triads often function to connect tonic and predominant, or they can function as their own predominants. As such, if we want to call this VI chord anything, I think it's best to call it a predominant (or a substitute of one, if you wish).
As for the voice leading to B♭, it's very smooth. Not counting the bass, we have the D holding constant between the two chords, the B♮ moving by half step to B♭, and the F moving by whole step to G. This is a net motion of three half steps, which is exactly the same as the net motion of V moving to I and of IV moving to I.
To me, this "works well" because of the smooth voice leading.
add a comment |
I think you need a better reason to call the penultimate chord a dominant than 'It comes before the tonic'!
You're trying very hard to explain this sequence in functional terms. Why? I think it just meanders around. Most of the chords have a note in common with the one after. It gets back to where it started, which I suspect is the main reason the final B♭ chord sounds 'right'. That's ok.
What does the melody do? Very often the melody is the unifying element.
add a comment |
I sense that seeing the actual music would help.
Just listening to the reduction as is - all in root position, no rhythm - it sounds like bar 4 could be a half cadence, after that could be a continuation phrase that plays with a chromatic mediant change, but G
to Bb
at the end doesn't sound like dominant to tonic, it doesn't seem like a phrase ending or resolution.
To me it's hard to not hear a set up for a symmetrical phrase, perhaps something like: I... V
in Bb
then if you add a D
major chord at the end it would become i V
in Gm
the relative minor.
EDIT
After listening to the audio...
Mm. 10-11 you labeled a cadence, and I sort of understood you meant mm. 12-13 as a cadence too. I have trouble feeling a cadence in either place. In mm. 10-11 every aspect of the music keeps going. At mm. 12-13 it ends with a rest, but a rest and a proper phrase ending aren't the same thing, there isn't really a harmonic ending.
add a comment |
Technically, to call a chord "substitute dominant" it should contain the tritone of the actual dominant. In your context, the dominant chord is F7
, and the tritone is formed by the A
and Eb
notes. Therefore, the substitute dominant chord with the root on the VIth
degree will be G13b
, containing both the 9th
tension (a
) and the 13b
(eb
). So this is not the right path to find the explanation for this case.
In your case, you hear an smooth transition from G
to Bb
just because they are chromatic-mediant related.
The smoothness in the transitions is actually the main feature of the chromatic mediant composition technique, and that is the reason why they are so widely used as backgrounds and movies soundtracks. In summary, two chords are chromatic-mediant related if they are at a distance of a third and they share a common note. In your case G
and Bb
are in a distance of a third and both share the d
note as common. You can read more about this topic here.
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I would hesitate to call this VI chord a substitute dominant. Submediant triads often function to connect tonic and predominant, or they can function as their own predominants. As such, if we want to call this VI chord anything, I think it's best to call it a predominant (or a substitute of one, if you wish).
As for the voice leading to B♭, it's very smooth. Not counting the bass, we have the D holding constant between the two chords, the B♮ moving by half step to B♭, and the F moving by whole step to G. This is a net motion of three half steps, which is exactly the same as the net motion of V moving to I and of IV moving to I.
To me, this "works well" because of the smooth voice leading.
add a comment |
I would hesitate to call this VI chord a substitute dominant. Submediant triads often function to connect tonic and predominant, or they can function as their own predominants. As such, if we want to call this VI chord anything, I think it's best to call it a predominant (or a substitute of one, if you wish).
As for the voice leading to B♭, it's very smooth. Not counting the bass, we have the D holding constant between the two chords, the B♮ moving by half step to B♭, and the F moving by whole step to G. This is a net motion of three half steps, which is exactly the same as the net motion of V moving to I and of IV moving to I.
To me, this "works well" because of the smooth voice leading.
add a comment |
I would hesitate to call this VI chord a substitute dominant. Submediant triads often function to connect tonic and predominant, or they can function as their own predominants. As such, if we want to call this VI chord anything, I think it's best to call it a predominant (or a substitute of one, if you wish).
As for the voice leading to B♭, it's very smooth. Not counting the bass, we have the D holding constant between the two chords, the B♮ moving by half step to B♭, and the F moving by whole step to G. This is a net motion of three half steps, which is exactly the same as the net motion of V moving to I and of IV moving to I.
To me, this "works well" because of the smooth voice leading.
I would hesitate to call this VI chord a substitute dominant. Submediant triads often function to connect tonic and predominant, or they can function as their own predominants. As such, if we want to call this VI chord anything, I think it's best to call it a predominant (or a substitute of one, if you wish).
As for the voice leading to B♭, it's very smooth. Not counting the bass, we have the D holding constant between the two chords, the B♮ moving by half step to B♭, and the F moving by whole step to G. This is a net motion of three half steps, which is exactly the same as the net motion of V moving to I and of IV moving to I.
To me, this "works well" because of the smooth voice leading.
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
48.5k8 gold badges119 silver badges206 bronze badges
48.5k8 gold badges119 silver badges206 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
I think you need a better reason to call the penultimate chord a dominant than 'It comes before the tonic'!
You're trying very hard to explain this sequence in functional terms. Why? I think it just meanders around. Most of the chords have a note in common with the one after. It gets back to where it started, which I suspect is the main reason the final B♭ chord sounds 'right'. That's ok.
What does the melody do? Very often the melody is the unifying element.
add a comment |
I think you need a better reason to call the penultimate chord a dominant than 'It comes before the tonic'!
You're trying very hard to explain this sequence in functional terms. Why? I think it just meanders around. Most of the chords have a note in common with the one after. It gets back to where it started, which I suspect is the main reason the final B♭ chord sounds 'right'. That's ok.
What does the melody do? Very often the melody is the unifying element.
add a comment |
I think you need a better reason to call the penultimate chord a dominant than 'It comes before the tonic'!
You're trying very hard to explain this sequence in functional terms. Why? I think it just meanders around. Most of the chords have a note in common with the one after. It gets back to where it started, which I suspect is the main reason the final B♭ chord sounds 'right'. That's ok.
What does the melody do? Very often the melody is the unifying element.
I think you need a better reason to call the penultimate chord a dominant than 'It comes before the tonic'!
You're trying very hard to explain this sequence in functional terms. Why? I think it just meanders around. Most of the chords have a note in common with the one after. It gets back to where it started, which I suspect is the main reason the final B♭ chord sounds 'right'. That's ok.
What does the melody do? Very often the melody is the unifying element.
answered 6 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
40.4k22 silver badges80 bronze badges
40.4k22 silver badges80 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
I sense that seeing the actual music would help.
Just listening to the reduction as is - all in root position, no rhythm - it sounds like bar 4 could be a half cadence, after that could be a continuation phrase that plays with a chromatic mediant change, but G
to Bb
at the end doesn't sound like dominant to tonic, it doesn't seem like a phrase ending or resolution.
To me it's hard to not hear a set up for a symmetrical phrase, perhaps something like: I... V
in Bb
then if you add a D
major chord at the end it would become i V
in Gm
the relative minor.
EDIT
After listening to the audio...
Mm. 10-11 you labeled a cadence, and I sort of understood you meant mm. 12-13 as a cadence too. I have trouble feeling a cadence in either place. In mm. 10-11 every aspect of the music keeps going. At mm. 12-13 it ends with a rest, but a rest and a proper phrase ending aren't the same thing, there isn't really a harmonic ending.
add a comment |
I sense that seeing the actual music would help.
Just listening to the reduction as is - all in root position, no rhythm - it sounds like bar 4 could be a half cadence, after that could be a continuation phrase that plays with a chromatic mediant change, but G
to Bb
at the end doesn't sound like dominant to tonic, it doesn't seem like a phrase ending or resolution.
To me it's hard to not hear a set up for a symmetrical phrase, perhaps something like: I... V
in Bb
then if you add a D
major chord at the end it would become i V
in Gm
the relative minor.
EDIT
After listening to the audio...
Mm. 10-11 you labeled a cadence, and I sort of understood you meant mm. 12-13 as a cadence too. I have trouble feeling a cadence in either place. In mm. 10-11 every aspect of the music keeps going. At mm. 12-13 it ends with a rest, but a rest and a proper phrase ending aren't the same thing, there isn't really a harmonic ending.
add a comment |
I sense that seeing the actual music would help.
Just listening to the reduction as is - all in root position, no rhythm - it sounds like bar 4 could be a half cadence, after that could be a continuation phrase that plays with a chromatic mediant change, but G
to Bb
at the end doesn't sound like dominant to tonic, it doesn't seem like a phrase ending or resolution.
To me it's hard to not hear a set up for a symmetrical phrase, perhaps something like: I... V
in Bb
then if you add a D
major chord at the end it would become i V
in Gm
the relative minor.
EDIT
After listening to the audio...
Mm. 10-11 you labeled a cadence, and I sort of understood you meant mm. 12-13 as a cadence too. I have trouble feeling a cadence in either place. In mm. 10-11 every aspect of the music keeps going. At mm. 12-13 it ends with a rest, but a rest and a proper phrase ending aren't the same thing, there isn't really a harmonic ending.
I sense that seeing the actual music would help.
Just listening to the reduction as is - all in root position, no rhythm - it sounds like bar 4 could be a half cadence, after that could be a continuation phrase that plays with a chromatic mediant change, but G
to Bb
at the end doesn't sound like dominant to tonic, it doesn't seem like a phrase ending or resolution.
To me it's hard to not hear a set up for a symmetrical phrase, perhaps something like: I... V
in Bb
then if you add a D
major chord at the end it would become i V
in Gm
the relative minor.
EDIT
After listening to the audio...
Mm. 10-11 you labeled a cadence, and I sort of understood you meant mm. 12-13 as a cadence too. I have trouble feeling a cadence in either place. In mm. 10-11 every aspect of the music keeps going. At mm. 12-13 it ends with a rest, but a rest and a proper phrase ending aren't the same thing, there isn't really a harmonic ending.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
Michael CurtisMichael Curtis
15.1k10 silver badges51 bronze badges
15.1k10 silver badges51 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Technically, to call a chord "substitute dominant" it should contain the tritone of the actual dominant. In your context, the dominant chord is F7
, and the tritone is formed by the A
and Eb
notes. Therefore, the substitute dominant chord with the root on the VIth
degree will be G13b
, containing both the 9th
tension (a
) and the 13b
(eb
). So this is not the right path to find the explanation for this case.
In your case, you hear an smooth transition from G
to Bb
just because they are chromatic-mediant related.
The smoothness in the transitions is actually the main feature of the chromatic mediant composition technique, and that is the reason why they are so widely used as backgrounds and movies soundtracks. In summary, two chords are chromatic-mediant related if they are at a distance of a third and they share a common note. In your case G
and Bb
are in a distance of a third and both share the d
note as common. You can read more about this topic here.
add a comment |
Technically, to call a chord "substitute dominant" it should contain the tritone of the actual dominant. In your context, the dominant chord is F7
, and the tritone is formed by the A
and Eb
notes. Therefore, the substitute dominant chord with the root on the VIth
degree will be G13b
, containing both the 9th
tension (a
) and the 13b
(eb
). So this is not the right path to find the explanation for this case.
In your case, you hear an smooth transition from G
to Bb
just because they are chromatic-mediant related.
The smoothness in the transitions is actually the main feature of the chromatic mediant composition technique, and that is the reason why they are so widely used as backgrounds and movies soundtracks. In summary, two chords are chromatic-mediant related if they are at a distance of a third and they share a common note. In your case G
and Bb
are in a distance of a third and both share the d
note as common. You can read more about this topic here.
add a comment |
Technically, to call a chord "substitute dominant" it should contain the tritone of the actual dominant. In your context, the dominant chord is F7
, and the tritone is formed by the A
and Eb
notes. Therefore, the substitute dominant chord with the root on the VIth
degree will be G13b
, containing both the 9th
tension (a
) and the 13b
(eb
). So this is not the right path to find the explanation for this case.
In your case, you hear an smooth transition from G
to Bb
just because they are chromatic-mediant related.
The smoothness in the transitions is actually the main feature of the chromatic mediant composition technique, and that is the reason why they are so widely used as backgrounds and movies soundtracks. In summary, two chords are chromatic-mediant related if they are at a distance of a third and they share a common note. In your case G
and Bb
are in a distance of a third and both share the d
note as common. You can read more about this topic here.
Technically, to call a chord "substitute dominant" it should contain the tritone of the actual dominant. In your context, the dominant chord is F7
, and the tritone is formed by the A
and Eb
notes. Therefore, the substitute dominant chord with the root on the VIth
degree will be G13b
, containing both the 9th
tension (a
) and the 13b
(eb
). So this is not the right path to find the explanation for this case.
In your case, you hear an smooth transition from G
to Bb
just because they are chromatic-mediant related.
The smoothness in the transitions is actually the main feature of the chromatic mediant composition technique, and that is the reason why they are so widely used as backgrounds and movies soundtracks. In summary, two chords are chromatic-mediant related if they are at a distance of a third and they share a common note. In your case G
and Bb
are in a distance of a third and both share the d
note as common. You can read more about this topic here.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
KikoloKikolo
1113 bronze badges
1113 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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I personally don't think that the G works at all as a dominant to B♭. To me this is a picardy third of the relative minor key. If this resolution works well in you piece, this likely has melodic rather than harmonic reasons.
– leftaroundabout
8 hours ago