RAID0 instead of RAID1 or 5, is this crazy?How should I configure the RAID array of SSD drives on my SQL Server?~2 Hours after a large insert SQL Server gets “I/O requests taking longer than 15 seconds to complete”SQL Server 2012 Enterprise: Copy Databases to New SQL Server, Same Domain, Users, EtcHigh latency with SQL Server 2014 Synchronous AlwaysOnSQL Server's “Total Server Memory” consumption stagnant for months with 64GB+ more availableInstant plan cache cleanupNeed help improving the stored procedure performanceDatabase Engine and SSISDB architecture adviceIs this a symptom of an overloaded server?

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RAID0 instead of RAID1 or 5, is this crazy?


How should I configure the RAID array of SSD drives on my SQL Server?~2 Hours after a large insert SQL Server gets “I/O requests taking longer than 15 seconds to complete”SQL Server 2012 Enterprise: Copy Databases to New SQL Server, Same Domain, Users, EtcHigh latency with SQL Server 2014 Synchronous AlwaysOnSQL Server's “Total Server Memory” consumption stagnant for months with 64GB+ more availableInstant plan cache cleanupNeed help improving the stored procedure performanceDatabase Engine and SSISDB architecture adviceIs this a symptom of an overloaded server?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








4















I'm considering using a RAID0 setup for one of our SQL Server clusters. I'll outline the situation and am looking for why this may be a bad idea. Also if someone you have use cases, white papers or other documentation you can point me to on this topic, that would be great.



We have 3 servers in 2 datacenters that are part of an SQL cluster. They are all running SQL Server in an Availability Group. The primary has a replica sitting right next to it and another in the other datacenter. They are running synchronous replication with automatic failover. All drives are enterprise class SSD's. They will be running SQL Server 2017 or 2019.



I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks. The only negative I'm currently seeing is lack of redundancy on the primary server, so it failing increases. As pros:



  1. If a drive fails, rather than run in a slowed, degraded state until someone receives a notice an manually acts on it, the server will immediately fail to a secondary maintaining full operational capability. This will have an added benefit of notifying us of a failover, so we can investigate the cause sooner.


  2. It reduces the chance of failure overall per TB capacity. Since we don't need parity or mirror drives, we reduce the number of drives per array. With fewer drives there is less total chance of a drive failure.


  3. It is cheaper. Needing fewer drives for our required capacity obviously costs less.


I know this isn't the conventional business thinking, but is there something I'm not considering? I'd love any input either pro or con.










share|improve this question







New contributor



zsqlman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • You're INCREASING the chances of a failover event occurring - is that desirable?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • It is preferable to running in a degraded state.

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago











  • Just to add to my above comment - the chances of both nodes going boom at the same time will be increased exponentially by the change of RAID setup. Given that you have 3 nodes though that may not be an issue. Do you plan to offload reporting queries to the secondary nodes?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • Some reporting is offloaded, but mostly not. Maybe one day. I know each server has an increased chance of failure due to the RAID config, but why would it be "exponentially" higher that both would go down simultaneously?

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    What are your RPO/RTO objectives? Have you considered that RAID10 would give you the performance of RAID 0, with the safety of mirroring?

    – Max Vernon
    7 hours ago

















4















I'm considering using a RAID0 setup for one of our SQL Server clusters. I'll outline the situation and am looking for why this may be a bad idea. Also if someone you have use cases, white papers or other documentation you can point me to on this topic, that would be great.



We have 3 servers in 2 datacenters that are part of an SQL cluster. They are all running SQL Server in an Availability Group. The primary has a replica sitting right next to it and another in the other datacenter. They are running synchronous replication with automatic failover. All drives are enterprise class SSD's. They will be running SQL Server 2017 or 2019.



I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks. The only negative I'm currently seeing is lack of redundancy on the primary server, so it failing increases. As pros:



  1. If a drive fails, rather than run in a slowed, degraded state until someone receives a notice an manually acts on it, the server will immediately fail to a secondary maintaining full operational capability. This will have an added benefit of notifying us of a failover, so we can investigate the cause sooner.


  2. It reduces the chance of failure overall per TB capacity. Since we don't need parity or mirror drives, we reduce the number of drives per array. With fewer drives there is less total chance of a drive failure.


  3. It is cheaper. Needing fewer drives for our required capacity obviously costs less.


I know this isn't the conventional business thinking, but is there something I'm not considering? I'd love any input either pro or con.










share|improve this question







New contributor



zsqlman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • You're INCREASING the chances of a failover event occurring - is that desirable?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • It is preferable to running in a degraded state.

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago











  • Just to add to my above comment - the chances of both nodes going boom at the same time will be increased exponentially by the change of RAID setup. Given that you have 3 nodes though that may not be an issue. Do you plan to offload reporting queries to the secondary nodes?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • Some reporting is offloaded, but mostly not. Maybe one day. I know each server has an increased chance of failure due to the RAID config, but why would it be "exponentially" higher that both would go down simultaneously?

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    What are your RPO/RTO objectives? Have you considered that RAID10 would give you the performance of RAID 0, with the safety of mirroring?

    – Max Vernon
    7 hours ago













4












4








4








I'm considering using a RAID0 setup for one of our SQL Server clusters. I'll outline the situation and am looking for why this may be a bad idea. Also if someone you have use cases, white papers or other documentation you can point me to on this topic, that would be great.



We have 3 servers in 2 datacenters that are part of an SQL cluster. They are all running SQL Server in an Availability Group. The primary has a replica sitting right next to it and another in the other datacenter. They are running synchronous replication with automatic failover. All drives are enterprise class SSD's. They will be running SQL Server 2017 or 2019.



I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks. The only negative I'm currently seeing is lack of redundancy on the primary server, so it failing increases. As pros:



  1. If a drive fails, rather than run in a slowed, degraded state until someone receives a notice an manually acts on it, the server will immediately fail to a secondary maintaining full operational capability. This will have an added benefit of notifying us of a failover, so we can investigate the cause sooner.


  2. It reduces the chance of failure overall per TB capacity. Since we don't need parity or mirror drives, we reduce the number of drives per array. With fewer drives there is less total chance of a drive failure.


  3. It is cheaper. Needing fewer drives for our required capacity obviously costs less.


I know this isn't the conventional business thinking, but is there something I'm not considering? I'd love any input either pro or con.










share|improve this question







New contributor



zsqlman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I'm considering using a RAID0 setup for one of our SQL Server clusters. I'll outline the situation and am looking for why this may be a bad idea. Also if someone you have use cases, white papers or other documentation you can point me to on this topic, that would be great.



We have 3 servers in 2 datacenters that are part of an SQL cluster. They are all running SQL Server in an Availability Group. The primary has a replica sitting right next to it and another in the other datacenter. They are running synchronous replication with automatic failover. All drives are enterprise class SSD's. They will be running SQL Server 2017 or 2019.



I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks. The only negative I'm currently seeing is lack of redundancy on the primary server, so it failing increases. As pros:



  1. If a drive fails, rather than run in a slowed, degraded state until someone receives a notice an manually acts on it, the server will immediately fail to a secondary maintaining full operational capability. This will have an added benefit of notifying us of a failover, so we can investigate the cause sooner.


  2. It reduces the chance of failure overall per TB capacity. Since we don't need parity or mirror drives, we reduce the number of drives per array. With fewer drives there is less total chance of a drive failure.


  3. It is cheaper. Needing fewer drives for our required capacity obviously costs less.


I know this isn't the conventional business thinking, but is there something I'm not considering? I'd love any input either pro or con.







sql-server availability-groups raid






share|improve this question







New contributor



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Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question







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share|improve this question




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asked 8 hours ago









zsqlmanzsqlman

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  • You're INCREASING the chances of a failover event occurring - is that desirable?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • It is preferable to running in a degraded state.

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago











  • Just to add to my above comment - the chances of both nodes going boom at the same time will be increased exponentially by the change of RAID setup. Given that you have 3 nodes though that may not be an issue. Do you plan to offload reporting queries to the secondary nodes?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • Some reporting is offloaded, but mostly not. Maybe one day. I know each server has an increased chance of failure due to the RAID config, but why would it be "exponentially" higher that both would go down simultaneously?

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    What are your RPO/RTO objectives? Have you considered that RAID10 would give you the performance of RAID 0, with the safety of mirroring?

    – Max Vernon
    7 hours ago

















  • You're INCREASING the chances of a failover event occurring - is that desirable?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • It is preferable to running in a degraded state.

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago











  • Just to add to my above comment - the chances of both nodes going boom at the same time will be increased exponentially by the change of RAID setup. Given that you have 3 nodes though that may not be an issue. Do you plan to offload reporting queries to the secondary nodes?

    – George.Palacios
    8 hours ago











  • Some reporting is offloaded, but mostly not. Maybe one day. I know each server has an increased chance of failure due to the RAID config, but why would it be "exponentially" higher that both would go down simultaneously?

    – zsqlman
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    What are your RPO/RTO objectives? Have you considered that RAID10 would give you the performance of RAID 0, with the safety of mirroring?

    – Max Vernon
    7 hours ago
















You're INCREASING the chances of a failover event occurring - is that desirable?

– George.Palacios
8 hours ago





You're INCREASING the chances of a failover event occurring - is that desirable?

– George.Palacios
8 hours ago













It is preferable to running in a degraded state.

– zsqlman
8 hours ago





It is preferable to running in a degraded state.

– zsqlman
8 hours ago













Just to add to my above comment - the chances of both nodes going boom at the same time will be increased exponentially by the change of RAID setup. Given that you have 3 nodes though that may not be an issue. Do you plan to offload reporting queries to the secondary nodes?

– George.Palacios
8 hours ago





Just to add to my above comment - the chances of both nodes going boom at the same time will be increased exponentially by the change of RAID setup. Given that you have 3 nodes though that may not be an issue. Do you plan to offload reporting queries to the secondary nodes?

– George.Palacios
8 hours ago













Some reporting is offloaded, but mostly not. Maybe one day. I know each server has an increased chance of failure due to the RAID config, but why would it be "exponentially" higher that both would go down simultaneously?

– zsqlman
8 hours ago





Some reporting is offloaded, but mostly not. Maybe one day. I know each server has an increased chance of failure due to the RAID config, but why would it be "exponentially" higher that both would go down simultaneously?

– zsqlman
8 hours ago




3




3





What are your RPO/RTO objectives? Have you considered that RAID10 would give you the performance of RAID 0, with the safety of mirroring?

– Max Vernon
7 hours ago





What are your RPO/RTO objectives? Have you considered that RAID10 would give you the performance of RAID 0, with the safety of mirroring?

– Max Vernon
7 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4















Drive failure should be taken into consideration here.



Imagine for a second that our drives on any particular day have a 1/1000 failure rate. Imagine then that we have 20 drives in each of our 3 arrays.



The chance of a single drive failing in an array is therefore 20/1000 = 1/50. The chance of two drives failing within the same array is something close to 20/1000 * 20/1000 = 400/1000000 = 1/2500. So by switching from RAID 0 to RAID 5 we're already significantly less likely to kill one of our arrays.



So we can take this further - if the chance of an array failing on a day is 1/50, then the chance of two arrays failing in a day is 1/(50*50) = 1/2500. The chance of two identical RAID 0 arrays failing is the same chance as one RAID 5 array failing, assuming the same disk set. This exponential increase in the chances of failure should concern you, as it massively increases the chance that more than one array fails at once.



As these disks are likely to have a long life time, you can likely run the numbers as above and directly see what effect this will have on reliability - if you can post the drive specifications I can add that calculation to this post. Whether the risk is then acceptable or not is for your organisation to decide.



Disclaimer: The above calculations have been simplified - they are still relatively accurate.






share|improve this answer



























  • We don't have these servers yet, but they would agnostic Dell enterprise drives. Everything I've seen them running would have a 2M MTBF and 10^-17 UBER. Also these would be 5 to 8 drive arrays, so a bit smaller than your example.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago



















1
















I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks.




This is a pretty common configuration when running AGs with internal / direct-attached storage drives. Especially with NVMe or other PCI-based flash storage divices.



It simply amounts to treating a drive failure like a server failure. With solid state drives you don't really have a significantly lower MTBF for the drive than you do for the other solid-state components of the server, and so you simply treat the drives as a point-of-failure for the server, and replace/rebuild the server in case of a drive failure.






share|improve this answer



























  • Thanks, David! Obviously this is the answer I want to see. I'm trying to take into consideration all of the non-preferable replies as well.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago













Your Answer








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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4















Drive failure should be taken into consideration here.



Imagine for a second that our drives on any particular day have a 1/1000 failure rate. Imagine then that we have 20 drives in each of our 3 arrays.



The chance of a single drive failing in an array is therefore 20/1000 = 1/50. The chance of two drives failing within the same array is something close to 20/1000 * 20/1000 = 400/1000000 = 1/2500. So by switching from RAID 0 to RAID 5 we're already significantly less likely to kill one of our arrays.



So we can take this further - if the chance of an array failing on a day is 1/50, then the chance of two arrays failing in a day is 1/(50*50) = 1/2500. The chance of two identical RAID 0 arrays failing is the same chance as one RAID 5 array failing, assuming the same disk set. This exponential increase in the chances of failure should concern you, as it massively increases the chance that more than one array fails at once.



As these disks are likely to have a long life time, you can likely run the numbers as above and directly see what effect this will have on reliability - if you can post the drive specifications I can add that calculation to this post. Whether the risk is then acceptable or not is for your organisation to decide.



Disclaimer: The above calculations have been simplified - they are still relatively accurate.






share|improve this answer



























  • We don't have these servers yet, but they would agnostic Dell enterprise drives. Everything I've seen them running would have a 2M MTBF and 10^-17 UBER. Also these would be 5 to 8 drive arrays, so a bit smaller than your example.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago
















4















Drive failure should be taken into consideration here.



Imagine for a second that our drives on any particular day have a 1/1000 failure rate. Imagine then that we have 20 drives in each of our 3 arrays.



The chance of a single drive failing in an array is therefore 20/1000 = 1/50. The chance of two drives failing within the same array is something close to 20/1000 * 20/1000 = 400/1000000 = 1/2500. So by switching from RAID 0 to RAID 5 we're already significantly less likely to kill one of our arrays.



So we can take this further - if the chance of an array failing on a day is 1/50, then the chance of two arrays failing in a day is 1/(50*50) = 1/2500. The chance of two identical RAID 0 arrays failing is the same chance as one RAID 5 array failing, assuming the same disk set. This exponential increase in the chances of failure should concern you, as it massively increases the chance that more than one array fails at once.



As these disks are likely to have a long life time, you can likely run the numbers as above and directly see what effect this will have on reliability - if you can post the drive specifications I can add that calculation to this post. Whether the risk is then acceptable or not is for your organisation to decide.



Disclaimer: The above calculations have been simplified - they are still relatively accurate.






share|improve this answer



























  • We don't have these servers yet, but they would agnostic Dell enterprise drives. Everything I've seen them running would have a 2M MTBF and 10^-17 UBER. Also these would be 5 to 8 drive arrays, so a bit smaller than your example.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago














4














4










4









Drive failure should be taken into consideration here.



Imagine for a second that our drives on any particular day have a 1/1000 failure rate. Imagine then that we have 20 drives in each of our 3 arrays.



The chance of a single drive failing in an array is therefore 20/1000 = 1/50. The chance of two drives failing within the same array is something close to 20/1000 * 20/1000 = 400/1000000 = 1/2500. So by switching from RAID 0 to RAID 5 we're already significantly less likely to kill one of our arrays.



So we can take this further - if the chance of an array failing on a day is 1/50, then the chance of two arrays failing in a day is 1/(50*50) = 1/2500. The chance of two identical RAID 0 arrays failing is the same chance as one RAID 5 array failing, assuming the same disk set. This exponential increase in the chances of failure should concern you, as it massively increases the chance that more than one array fails at once.



As these disks are likely to have a long life time, you can likely run the numbers as above and directly see what effect this will have on reliability - if you can post the drive specifications I can add that calculation to this post. Whether the risk is then acceptable or not is for your organisation to decide.



Disclaimer: The above calculations have been simplified - they are still relatively accurate.






share|improve this answer















Drive failure should be taken into consideration here.



Imagine for a second that our drives on any particular day have a 1/1000 failure rate. Imagine then that we have 20 drives in each of our 3 arrays.



The chance of a single drive failing in an array is therefore 20/1000 = 1/50. The chance of two drives failing within the same array is something close to 20/1000 * 20/1000 = 400/1000000 = 1/2500. So by switching from RAID 0 to RAID 5 we're already significantly less likely to kill one of our arrays.



So we can take this further - if the chance of an array failing on a day is 1/50, then the chance of two arrays failing in a day is 1/(50*50) = 1/2500. The chance of two identical RAID 0 arrays failing is the same chance as one RAID 5 array failing, assuming the same disk set. This exponential increase in the chances of failure should concern you, as it massively increases the chance that more than one array fails at once.



As these disks are likely to have a long life time, you can likely run the numbers as above and directly see what effect this will have on reliability - if you can post the drive specifications I can add that calculation to this post. Whether the risk is then acceptable or not is for your organisation to decide.



Disclaimer: The above calculations have been simplified - they are still relatively accurate.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 7 hours ago

























answered 8 hours ago









George.PalaciosGeorge.Palacios

4,10711 silver badges31 bronze badges




4,10711 silver badges31 bronze badges















  • We don't have these servers yet, but they would agnostic Dell enterprise drives. Everything I've seen them running would have a 2M MTBF and 10^-17 UBER. Also these would be 5 to 8 drive arrays, so a bit smaller than your example.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago


















  • We don't have these servers yet, but they would agnostic Dell enterprise drives. Everything I've seen them running would have a 2M MTBF and 10^-17 UBER. Also these would be 5 to 8 drive arrays, so a bit smaller than your example.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago

















We don't have these servers yet, but they would agnostic Dell enterprise drives. Everything I've seen them running would have a 2M MTBF and 10^-17 UBER. Also these would be 5 to 8 drive arrays, so a bit smaller than your example.

– zsqlman
6 hours ago






We don't have these servers yet, but they would agnostic Dell enterprise drives. Everything I've seen them running would have a 2M MTBF and 10^-17 UBER. Also these would be 5 to 8 drive arrays, so a bit smaller than your example.

– zsqlman
6 hours ago














1
















I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks.




This is a pretty common configuration when running AGs with internal / direct-attached storage drives. Especially with NVMe or other PCI-based flash storage divices.



It simply amounts to treating a drive failure like a server failure. With solid state drives you don't really have a significantly lower MTBF for the drive than you do for the other solid-state components of the server, and so you simply treat the drives as a point-of-failure for the server, and replace/rebuild the server in case of a drive failure.






share|improve this answer



























  • Thanks, David! Obviously this is the answer I want to see. I'm trying to take into consideration all of the non-preferable replies as well.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago















1
















I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks.




This is a pretty common configuration when running AGs with internal / direct-attached storage drives. Especially with NVMe or other PCI-based flash storage divices.



It simply amounts to treating a drive failure like a server failure. With solid state drives you don't really have a significantly lower MTBF for the drive than you do for the other solid-state components of the server, and so you simply treat the drives as a point-of-failure for the server, and replace/rebuild the server in case of a drive failure.






share|improve this answer



























  • Thanks, David! Obviously this is the answer I want to see. I'm trying to take into consideration all of the non-preferable replies as well.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago













1














1










1










I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks.




This is a pretty common configuration when running AGs with internal / direct-attached storage drives. Especially with NVMe or other PCI-based flash storage divices.



It simply amounts to treating a drive failure like a server failure. With solid state drives you don't really have a significantly lower MTBF for the drive than you do for the other solid-state components of the server, and so you simply treat the drives as a point-of-failure for the server, and replace/rebuild the server in case of a drive failure.






share|improve this answer
















I'm thinking that there would be multiple benefits to running them on RAID0 arrays over other methods with few, if any, real drawbacks.




This is a pretty common configuration when running AGs with internal / direct-attached storage drives. Especially with NVMe or other PCI-based flash storage divices.



It simply amounts to treating a drive failure like a server failure. With solid state drives you don't really have a significantly lower MTBF for the drive than you do for the other solid-state components of the server, and so you simply treat the drives as a point-of-failure for the server, and replace/rebuild the server in case of a drive failure.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 7 hours ago

























answered 7 hours ago









David Browne - MicrosoftDavid Browne - Microsoft

14.9k1 gold badge13 silver badges39 bronze badges




14.9k1 gold badge13 silver badges39 bronze badges















  • Thanks, David! Obviously this is the answer I want to see. I'm trying to take into consideration all of the non-preferable replies as well.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago

















  • Thanks, David! Obviously this is the answer I want to see. I'm trying to take into consideration all of the non-preferable replies as well.

    – zsqlman
    6 hours ago
















Thanks, David! Obviously this is the answer I want to see. I'm trying to take into consideration all of the non-preferable replies as well.

– zsqlman
6 hours ago





Thanks, David! Obviously this is the answer I want to see. I'm trying to take into consideration all of the non-preferable replies as well.

– zsqlman
6 hours ago










zsqlman is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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zsqlman is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












zsqlman is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











zsqlman is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














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