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Would life always name the light from their sun “white”


Cosmic Background Radiation in the pastHow can an advanced civilization harvest energy from an x-ray binary?Can a habitable planet have mini-suns (i.e. solar satellites or glowing moons)?Would a circumbinary planet have a differently colored sky depending on which star was visible?How extreme can I make an altered solar cycle without destroying an inhabited world?How can a world with an extremely thick, microbe-rich atmosphere avoid global warming problems?Terrestrial Exoplanet Skies – I've Built a Visual Sky Chart. Is it Correct?Making Titan's atmosphere transparentWould an atmosphere of supercritical CO2 affect available light?Possible sky colors compatible with life on earth













1












$begingroup$


I've heard it said that white light contains all the colors in it. Our sun produces white light and that the visible spectrum is just the range we evolved to see because our atmosphere is transparent to it.



Every planet with an atmosphere in orbit around a star will have it's own visible spectrum for the life evolving on it's surface, potentially causing those lifeforms to have their own concept of "white" which may be the color their star emits, or maybe the collection of all colors in their visible spectrum. In other words, they may call red (Or whatever color their star is) white and say it is the collection of all colors.



Some other planets may even have atmospheres where the visible spectrum is too dark, or doesn't reflect off of common materials in a way that is useful for eyesight. On such planets, vision may not even be a trait that evolves in the first place.



My question is: how special is our situation? How many outcomes are there to the life-atmosphere-starlight equation and how likely is each to occur?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    This is kind of impossible to say, since we have one example of life evolving (ours). We have only tenuous examples of planets in the goldilocks zone, so we can't speak to how common given atmospheric types might be.
    $endgroup$
    – jdunlop
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regardless of the visible spectrum you can perceive there will always be a combination of the entirety of the spectrum.
    $endgroup$
    – Rob
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'm confused because I've always seen the sun's light as yellow/orange more than white.
    $endgroup$
    – David Rice
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @David Rice So have I but every science text I've read on the subject calls our sun white so that's what I'm going with.
    $endgroup$
    – Muuski
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Remember that “red dwarf” stars wouldn’t be red to our eyes. The spectrum of the light they emit is very similar to that of a standard incandescent light bulb, and when bright it would look white or yellow to us, the same as the light from a light bulb.
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Scott
    1 hour ago















1












$begingroup$


I've heard it said that white light contains all the colors in it. Our sun produces white light and that the visible spectrum is just the range we evolved to see because our atmosphere is transparent to it.



Every planet with an atmosphere in orbit around a star will have it's own visible spectrum for the life evolving on it's surface, potentially causing those lifeforms to have their own concept of "white" which may be the color their star emits, or maybe the collection of all colors in their visible spectrum. In other words, they may call red (Or whatever color their star is) white and say it is the collection of all colors.



Some other planets may even have atmospheres where the visible spectrum is too dark, or doesn't reflect off of common materials in a way that is useful for eyesight. On such planets, vision may not even be a trait that evolves in the first place.



My question is: how special is our situation? How many outcomes are there to the life-atmosphere-starlight equation and how likely is each to occur?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    This is kind of impossible to say, since we have one example of life evolving (ours). We have only tenuous examples of planets in the goldilocks zone, so we can't speak to how common given atmospheric types might be.
    $endgroup$
    – jdunlop
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regardless of the visible spectrum you can perceive there will always be a combination of the entirety of the spectrum.
    $endgroup$
    – Rob
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'm confused because I've always seen the sun's light as yellow/orange more than white.
    $endgroup$
    – David Rice
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @David Rice So have I but every science text I've read on the subject calls our sun white so that's what I'm going with.
    $endgroup$
    – Muuski
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Remember that “red dwarf” stars wouldn’t be red to our eyes. The spectrum of the light they emit is very similar to that of a standard incandescent light bulb, and when bright it would look white or yellow to us, the same as the light from a light bulb.
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Scott
    1 hour ago













1












1








1





$begingroup$


I've heard it said that white light contains all the colors in it. Our sun produces white light and that the visible spectrum is just the range we evolved to see because our atmosphere is transparent to it.



Every planet with an atmosphere in orbit around a star will have it's own visible spectrum for the life evolving on it's surface, potentially causing those lifeforms to have their own concept of "white" which may be the color their star emits, or maybe the collection of all colors in their visible spectrum. In other words, they may call red (Or whatever color their star is) white and say it is the collection of all colors.



Some other planets may even have atmospheres where the visible spectrum is too dark, or doesn't reflect off of common materials in a way that is useful for eyesight. On such planets, vision may not even be a trait that evolves in the first place.



My question is: how special is our situation? How many outcomes are there to the life-atmosphere-starlight equation and how likely is each to occur?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I've heard it said that white light contains all the colors in it. Our sun produces white light and that the visible spectrum is just the range we evolved to see because our atmosphere is transparent to it.



Every planet with an atmosphere in orbit around a star will have it's own visible spectrum for the life evolving on it's surface, potentially causing those lifeforms to have their own concept of "white" which may be the color their star emits, or maybe the collection of all colors in their visible spectrum. In other words, they may call red (Or whatever color their star is) white and say it is the collection of all colors.



Some other planets may even have atmospheres where the visible spectrum is too dark, or doesn't reflect off of common materials in a way that is useful for eyesight. On such planets, vision may not even be a trait that evolves in the first place.



My question is: how special is our situation? How many outcomes are there to the life-atmosphere-starlight equation and how likely is each to occur?







hard-science atmosphere sunlight colors






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 27 mins ago







Muuski

















asked 2 hours ago









MuuskiMuuski

47127




47127











  • $begingroup$
    This is kind of impossible to say, since we have one example of life evolving (ours). We have only tenuous examples of planets in the goldilocks zone, so we can't speak to how common given atmospheric types might be.
    $endgroup$
    – jdunlop
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regardless of the visible spectrum you can perceive there will always be a combination of the entirety of the spectrum.
    $endgroup$
    – Rob
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'm confused because I've always seen the sun's light as yellow/orange more than white.
    $endgroup$
    – David Rice
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @David Rice So have I but every science text I've read on the subject calls our sun white so that's what I'm going with.
    $endgroup$
    – Muuski
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Remember that “red dwarf” stars wouldn’t be red to our eyes. The spectrum of the light they emit is very similar to that of a standard incandescent light bulb, and when bright it would look white or yellow to us, the same as the light from a light bulb.
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Scott
    1 hour ago
















  • $begingroup$
    This is kind of impossible to say, since we have one example of life evolving (ours). We have only tenuous examples of planets in the goldilocks zone, so we can't speak to how common given atmospheric types might be.
    $endgroup$
    – jdunlop
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regardless of the visible spectrum you can perceive there will always be a combination of the entirety of the spectrum.
    $endgroup$
    – Rob
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'm confused because I've always seen the sun's light as yellow/orange more than white.
    $endgroup$
    – David Rice
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @David Rice So have I but every science text I've read on the subject calls our sun white so that's what I'm going with.
    $endgroup$
    – Muuski
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Remember that “red dwarf” stars wouldn’t be red to our eyes. The spectrum of the light they emit is very similar to that of a standard incandescent light bulb, and when bright it would look white or yellow to us, the same as the light from a light bulb.
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Scott
    1 hour ago















$begingroup$
This is kind of impossible to say, since we have one example of life evolving (ours). We have only tenuous examples of planets in the goldilocks zone, so we can't speak to how common given atmospheric types might be.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
This is kind of impossible to say, since we have one example of life evolving (ours). We have only tenuous examples of planets in the goldilocks zone, so we can't speak to how common given atmospheric types might be.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
2 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Regardless of the visible spectrum you can perceive there will always be a combination of the entirety of the spectrum.
$endgroup$
– Rob
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
Regardless of the visible spectrum you can perceive there will always be a combination of the entirety of the spectrum.
$endgroup$
– Rob
2 hours ago












$begingroup$
I'm confused because I've always seen the sun's light as yellow/orange more than white.
$endgroup$
– David Rice
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
I'm confused because I've always seen the sun's light as yellow/orange more than white.
$endgroup$
– David Rice
2 hours ago












$begingroup$
@David Rice So have I but every science text I've read on the subject calls our sun white so that's what I'm going with.
$endgroup$
– Muuski
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
@David Rice So have I but every science text I've read on the subject calls our sun white so that's what I'm going with.
$endgroup$
– Muuski
2 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Remember that “red dwarf” stars wouldn’t be red to our eyes. The spectrum of the light they emit is very similar to that of a standard incandescent light bulb, and when bright it would look white or yellow to us, the same as the light from a light bulb.
$endgroup$
– Mike Scott
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Remember that “red dwarf” stars wouldn’t be red to our eyes. The spectrum of the light they emit is very similar to that of a standard incandescent light bulb, and when bright it would look white or yellow to us, the same as the light from a light bulb.
$endgroup$
– Mike Scott
1 hour ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















5












$begingroup$

Probably not. But they will likely see white.



First, White is just a word it has no intrinsic meaning.



Second white to a human may not be white to a bird or lizard. Our colors or lack there off is an artifact of how we see light, which wavelength sensitivities we have.



Will light from their sun look white, probably. Not for any intrinsic reason but because of evolution. Eyes tend to evolve for the spectrum of light available. If they have color vision it will likely see naked sunlight as the default (white) since color is based on differential absorption of the light from that source. Whatever "color" the light that reaches the surface that is what they will see as white. The only way they would not is if they orbit a dual star system, in which case they will see the average light that reaches the surface as white.



OUr sun will not look white unless their star is very similar in color.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    2












    $begingroup$

    Obviously, you don't literally mean "will they use the phonemes we put into the English word 'white' to describe the color they see?"



    Because not even terrestrial humans do that, apart from some of the minority who speak English.



    So I'm guessing you mean "will an alien that can see color always come to consider the light that they get from their sun to be a 'neutral' color?"



    It depends. Obviously, if their atmosphere filters a lot of the light, then their eyes will not be adapted to the light of the sun above the atmosphere, but tot he filtered light.



    If there's a brighter or more constant light source than the sun, then their eyes will be adapted to that.




    An aside about vision.



    Most of us see colors in basically the same way: we have three receptors for reddish (low frequency, long wavelength), greenish, and blueish (high frequency, short wavelength) in our eyes. The color we see is caused by a mix of those colors.



    So if we see a color between red and green, we see yellow.



    If we see a color between yellow and blue, we see cyan.



    And if we see a color between red and blue... well, that's the color inbetween, so we'd see green. But if we see TWO colors, red and blue, mixed, then we see magenta. Magenta has no wavelength. It's not a "real" color at all.



    Not everyone sees color this way. There exist people with more than three types of receptor: tetrachromats. There exist colorblind people, with fewer. Unless they have no color receptors at all, they have their own "magenta"s, made of no real color.



    There's a whole bunch of light from the sun in the UV and IR ranges, which we do not see, and which do not make up part of our definition of "white".



    So it is arguably false to say we call sunlight white. What we call "white" is a very small subset of the Sun's electromagnetic radiation.



    And at sunrise and sunset, we might call the light from the sun "red" or "orange".



    We are also more sensitive to some colors (red) than others (blue). So it takes less of them put together to make up what we'd call "pure white" where our color (but not brightness) receptors are flooded.




    So would an alien know the colors they could percieve, as "white"? Well.... yeees.



    As others have said, it's a slippery word.



    Look through night vision goggles:



    Night vision goggles: creative commons



    That car is clearly "white". But it's clearly also "green".



    So what we ourselves mean by "white" is complicated. We mean something more like "reflecting all the incident visible light in the current scene, but not coherently like a mirror".



    It's likely that any alien capable of seeing color will be able to express a similar concept, even if their color perception is different to ours.



    After all, colorblind people do, and so do tetrachromats.



    And, if the wavelengths they consider "visible" are significantly different to ours, something they describe as white we might call black (some black t-shirts glow white in IR, for instance).



    The wavelengths they consider visible are likely to be some subset of the wavelengths available to them.




    So would they call our sun "white"?



    Eh. If they're from a red dwarf, probably not. They would likely consider it "yellowy", if they had the concept of "yellow". "Averaging a little more in the short-wavelength part of the spectrum compared to what we'd call white", they'd say.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      This answer understands what I'm asking vastly more than any other so far.
      $endgroup$
      – Muuski
      23 mins ago


















    1












    $begingroup$

    I follow your logic. Generally. I would agree. The main problem is the hand waving we need to do to talk about perception. Some would argue about whether or not we all see the same "red". I don't think those arguments are interesting or useful as they're not falsifiable.



    Now here's some hair splitting idea: Consider the Mantis Shrimp and its 12 types of photo receptors and solar spectrum gaps. I could imagine an organism evolving a system if vision detailed enough to see the variations in the spectra between stars. Then it would be able to tell the different between true white-full-spectrum light and the light from the sun.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













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      3 Answers
      3






      active

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      5












      $begingroup$

      Probably not. But they will likely see white.



      First, White is just a word it has no intrinsic meaning.



      Second white to a human may not be white to a bird or lizard. Our colors or lack there off is an artifact of how we see light, which wavelength sensitivities we have.



      Will light from their sun look white, probably. Not for any intrinsic reason but because of evolution. Eyes tend to evolve for the spectrum of light available. If they have color vision it will likely see naked sunlight as the default (white) since color is based on differential absorption of the light from that source. Whatever "color" the light that reaches the surface that is what they will see as white. The only way they would not is if they orbit a dual star system, in which case they will see the average light that reaches the surface as white.



      OUr sun will not look white unless their star is very similar in color.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        5












        $begingroup$

        Probably not. But they will likely see white.



        First, White is just a word it has no intrinsic meaning.



        Second white to a human may not be white to a bird or lizard. Our colors or lack there off is an artifact of how we see light, which wavelength sensitivities we have.



        Will light from their sun look white, probably. Not for any intrinsic reason but because of evolution. Eyes tend to evolve for the spectrum of light available. If they have color vision it will likely see naked sunlight as the default (white) since color is based on differential absorption of the light from that source. Whatever "color" the light that reaches the surface that is what they will see as white. The only way they would not is if they orbit a dual star system, in which case they will see the average light that reaches the surface as white.



        OUr sun will not look white unless their star is very similar in color.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          5












          5








          5





          $begingroup$

          Probably not. But they will likely see white.



          First, White is just a word it has no intrinsic meaning.



          Second white to a human may not be white to a bird or lizard. Our colors or lack there off is an artifact of how we see light, which wavelength sensitivities we have.



          Will light from their sun look white, probably. Not for any intrinsic reason but because of evolution. Eyes tend to evolve for the spectrum of light available. If they have color vision it will likely see naked sunlight as the default (white) since color is based on differential absorption of the light from that source. Whatever "color" the light that reaches the surface that is what they will see as white. The only way they would not is if they orbit a dual star system, in which case they will see the average light that reaches the surface as white.



          OUr sun will not look white unless their star is very similar in color.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Probably not. But they will likely see white.



          First, White is just a word it has no intrinsic meaning.



          Second white to a human may not be white to a bird or lizard. Our colors or lack there off is an artifact of how we see light, which wavelength sensitivities we have.



          Will light from their sun look white, probably. Not for any intrinsic reason but because of evolution. Eyes tend to evolve for the spectrum of light available. If they have color vision it will likely see naked sunlight as the default (white) since color is based on differential absorption of the light from that source. Whatever "color" the light that reaches the surface that is what they will see as white. The only way they would not is if they orbit a dual star system, in which case they will see the average light that reaches the surface as white.



          OUr sun will not look white unless their star is very similar in color.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          JohnJohn

          37.2k1048125




          37.2k1048125





















              2












              $begingroup$

              Obviously, you don't literally mean "will they use the phonemes we put into the English word 'white' to describe the color they see?"



              Because not even terrestrial humans do that, apart from some of the minority who speak English.



              So I'm guessing you mean "will an alien that can see color always come to consider the light that they get from their sun to be a 'neutral' color?"



              It depends. Obviously, if their atmosphere filters a lot of the light, then their eyes will not be adapted to the light of the sun above the atmosphere, but tot he filtered light.



              If there's a brighter or more constant light source than the sun, then their eyes will be adapted to that.




              An aside about vision.



              Most of us see colors in basically the same way: we have three receptors for reddish (low frequency, long wavelength), greenish, and blueish (high frequency, short wavelength) in our eyes. The color we see is caused by a mix of those colors.



              So if we see a color between red and green, we see yellow.



              If we see a color between yellow and blue, we see cyan.



              And if we see a color between red and blue... well, that's the color inbetween, so we'd see green. But if we see TWO colors, red and blue, mixed, then we see magenta. Magenta has no wavelength. It's not a "real" color at all.



              Not everyone sees color this way. There exist people with more than three types of receptor: tetrachromats. There exist colorblind people, with fewer. Unless they have no color receptors at all, they have their own "magenta"s, made of no real color.



              There's a whole bunch of light from the sun in the UV and IR ranges, which we do not see, and which do not make up part of our definition of "white".



              So it is arguably false to say we call sunlight white. What we call "white" is a very small subset of the Sun's electromagnetic radiation.



              And at sunrise and sunset, we might call the light from the sun "red" or "orange".



              We are also more sensitive to some colors (red) than others (blue). So it takes less of them put together to make up what we'd call "pure white" where our color (but not brightness) receptors are flooded.




              So would an alien know the colors they could percieve, as "white"? Well.... yeees.



              As others have said, it's a slippery word.



              Look through night vision goggles:



              Night vision goggles: creative commons



              That car is clearly "white". But it's clearly also "green".



              So what we ourselves mean by "white" is complicated. We mean something more like "reflecting all the incident visible light in the current scene, but not coherently like a mirror".



              It's likely that any alien capable of seeing color will be able to express a similar concept, even if their color perception is different to ours.



              After all, colorblind people do, and so do tetrachromats.



              And, if the wavelengths they consider "visible" are significantly different to ours, something they describe as white we might call black (some black t-shirts glow white in IR, for instance).



              The wavelengths they consider visible are likely to be some subset of the wavelengths available to them.




              So would they call our sun "white"?



              Eh. If they're from a red dwarf, probably not. They would likely consider it "yellowy", if they had the concept of "yellow". "Averaging a little more in the short-wavelength part of the spectrum compared to what we'd call white", they'd say.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                This answer understands what I'm asking vastly more than any other so far.
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                23 mins ago















              2












              $begingroup$

              Obviously, you don't literally mean "will they use the phonemes we put into the English word 'white' to describe the color they see?"



              Because not even terrestrial humans do that, apart from some of the minority who speak English.



              So I'm guessing you mean "will an alien that can see color always come to consider the light that they get from their sun to be a 'neutral' color?"



              It depends. Obviously, if their atmosphere filters a lot of the light, then their eyes will not be adapted to the light of the sun above the atmosphere, but tot he filtered light.



              If there's a brighter or more constant light source than the sun, then their eyes will be adapted to that.




              An aside about vision.



              Most of us see colors in basically the same way: we have three receptors for reddish (low frequency, long wavelength), greenish, and blueish (high frequency, short wavelength) in our eyes. The color we see is caused by a mix of those colors.



              So if we see a color between red and green, we see yellow.



              If we see a color between yellow and blue, we see cyan.



              And if we see a color between red and blue... well, that's the color inbetween, so we'd see green. But if we see TWO colors, red and blue, mixed, then we see magenta. Magenta has no wavelength. It's not a "real" color at all.



              Not everyone sees color this way. There exist people with more than three types of receptor: tetrachromats. There exist colorblind people, with fewer. Unless they have no color receptors at all, they have their own "magenta"s, made of no real color.



              There's a whole bunch of light from the sun in the UV and IR ranges, which we do not see, and which do not make up part of our definition of "white".



              So it is arguably false to say we call sunlight white. What we call "white" is a very small subset of the Sun's electromagnetic radiation.



              And at sunrise and sunset, we might call the light from the sun "red" or "orange".



              We are also more sensitive to some colors (red) than others (blue). So it takes less of them put together to make up what we'd call "pure white" where our color (but not brightness) receptors are flooded.




              So would an alien know the colors they could percieve, as "white"? Well.... yeees.



              As others have said, it's a slippery word.



              Look through night vision goggles:



              Night vision goggles: creative commons



              That car is clearly "white". But it's clearly also "green".



              So what we ourselves mean by "white" is complicated. We mean something more like "reflecting all the incident visible light in the current scene, but not coherently like a mirror".



              It's likely that any alien capable of seeing color will be able to express a similar concept, even if their color perception is different to ours.



              After all, colorblind people do, and so do tetrachromats.



              And, if the wavelengths they consider "visible" are significantly different to ours, something they describe as white we might call black (some black t-shirts glow white in IR, for instance).



              The wavelengths they consider visible are likely to be some subset of the wavelengths available to them.




              So would they call our sun "white"?



              Eh. If they're from a red dwarf, probably not. They would likely consider it "yellowy", if they had the concept of "yellow". "Averaging a little more in the short-wavelength part of the spectrum compared to what we'd call white", they'd say.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                This answer understands what I'm asking vastly more than any other so far.
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                23 mins ago













              2












              2








              2





              $begingroup$

              Obviously, you don't literally mean "will they use the phonemes we put into the English word 'white' to describe the color they see?"



              Because not even terrestrial humans do that, apart from some of the minority who speak English.



              So I'm guessing you mean "will an alien that can see color always come to consider the light that they get from their sun to be a 'neutral' color?"



              It depends. Obviously, if their atmosphere filters a lot of the light, then their eyes will not be adapted to the light of the sun above the atmosphere, but tot he filtered light.



              If there's a brighter or more constant light source than the sun, then their eyes will be adapted to that.




              An aside about vision.



              Most of us see colors in basically the same way: we have three receptors for reddish (low frequency, long wavelength), greenish, and blueish (high frequency, short wavelength) in our eyes. The color we see is caused by a mix of those colors.



              So if we see a color between red and green, we see yellow.



              If we see a color between yellow and blue, we see cyan.



              And if we see a color between red and blue... well, that's the color inbetween, so we'd see green. But if we see TWO colors, red and blue, mixed, then we see magenta. Magenta has no wavelength. It's not a "real" color at all.



              Not everyone sees color this way. There exist people with more than three types of receptor: tetrachromats. There exist colorblind people, with fewer. Unless they have no color receptors at all, they have their own "magenta"s, made of no real color.



              There's a whole bunch of light from the sun in the UV and IR ranges, which we do not see, and which do not make up part of our definition of "white".



              So it is arguably false to say we call sunlight white. What we call "white" is a very small subset of the Sun's electromagnetic radiation.



              And at sunrise and sunset, we might call the light from the sun "red" or "orange".



              We are also more sensitive to some colors (red) than others (blue). So it takes less of them put together to make up what we'd call "pure white" where our color (but not brightness) receptors are flooded.




              So would an alien know the colors they could percieve, as "white"? Well.... yeees.



              As others have said, it's a slippery word.



              Look through night vision goggles:



              Night vision goggles: creative commons



              That car is clearly "white". But it's clearly also "green".



              So what we ourselves mean by "white" is complicated. We mean something more like "reflecting all the incident visible light in the current scene, but not coherently like a mirror".



              It's likely that any alien capable of seeing color will be able to express a similar concept, even if their color perception is different to ours.



              After all, colorblind people do, and so do tetrachromats.



              And, if the wavelengths they consider "visible" are significantly different to ours, something they describe as white we might call black (some black t-shirts glow white in IR, for instance).



              The wavelengths they consider visible are likely to be some subset of the wavelengths available to them.




              So would they call our sun "white"?



              Eh. If they're from a red dwarf, probably not. They would likely consider it "yellowy", if they had the concept of "yellow". "Averaging a little more in the short-wavelength part of the spectrum compared to what we'd call white", they'd say.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Obviously, you don't literally mean "will they use the phonemes we put into the English word 'white' to describe the color they see?"



              Because not even terrestrial humans do that, apart from some of the minority who speak English.



              So I'm guessing you mean "will an alien that can see color always come to consider the light that they get from their sun to be a 'neutral' color?"



              It depends. Obviously, if their atmosphere filters a lot of the light, then their eyes will not be adapted to the light of the sun above the atmosphere, but tot he filtered light.



              If there's a brighter or more constant light source than the sun, then their eyes will be adapted to that.




              An aside about vision.



              Most of us see colors in basically the same way: we have three receptors for reddish (low frequency, long wavelength), greenish, and blueish (high frequency, short wavelength) in our eyes. The color we see is caused by a mix of those colors.



              So if we see a color between red and green, we see yellow.



              If we see a color between yellow and blue, we see cyan.



              And if we see a color between red and blue... well, that's the color inbetween, so we'd see green. But if we see TWO colors, red and blue, mixed, then we see magenta. Magenta has no wavelength. It's not a "real" color at all.



              Not everyone sees color this way. There exist people with more than three types of receptor: tetrachromats. There exist colorblind people, with fewer. Unless they have no color receptors at all, they have their own "magenta"s, made of no real color.



              There's a whole bunch of light from the sun in the UV and IR ranges, which we do not see, and which do not make up part of our definition of "white".



              So it is arguably false to say we call sunlight white. What we call "white" is a very small subset of the Sun's electromagnetic radiation.



              And at sunrise and sunset, we might call the light from the sun "red" or "orange".



              We are also more sensitive to some colors (red) than others (blue). So it takes less of them put together to make up what we'd call "pure white" where our color (but not brightness) receptors are flooded.




              So would an alien know the colors they could percieve, as "white"? Well.... yeees.



              As others have said, it's a slippery word.



              Look through night vision goggles:



              Night vision goggles: creative commons



              That car is clearly "white". But it's clearly also "green".



              So what we ourselves mean by "white" is complicated. We mean something more like "reflecting all the incident visible light in the current scene, but not coherently like a mirror".



              It's likely that any alien capable of seeing color will be able to express a similar concept, even if their color perception is different to ours.



              After all, colorblind people do, and so do tetrachromats.



              And, if the wavelengths they consider "visible" are significantly different to ours, something they describe as white we might call black (some black t-shirts glow white in IR, for instance).



              The wavelengths they consider visible are likely to be some subset of the wavelengths available to them.




              So would they call our sun "white"?



              Eh. If they're from a red dwarf, probably not. They would likely consider it "yellowy", if they had the concept of "yellow". "Averaging a little more in the short-wavelength part of the spectrum compared to what we'd call white", they'd say.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 33 mins ago









              Dewi MorganDewi Morgan

              5,4281035




              5,4281035











              • $begingroup$
                This answer understands what I'm asking vastly more than any other so far.
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                23 mins ago
















              • $begingroup$
                This answer understands what I'm asking vastly more than any other so far.
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                23 mins ago















              $begingroup$
              This answer understands what I'm asking vastly more than any other so far.
              $endgroup$
              – Muuski
              23 mins ago




              $begingroup$
              This answer understands what I'm asking vastly more than any other so far.
              $endgroup$
              – Muuski
              23 mins ago











              1












              $begingroup$

              I follow your logic. Generally. I would agree. The main problem is the hand waving we need to do to talk about perception. Some would argue about whether or not we all see the same "red". I don't think those arguments are interesting or useful as they're not falsifiable.



              Now here's some hair splitting idea: Consider the Mantis Shrimp and its 12 types of photo receptors and solar spectrum gaps. I could imagine an organism evolving a system if vision detailed enough to see the variations in the spectra between stars. Then it would be able to tell the different between true white-full-spectrum light and the light from the sun.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                1












                $begingroup$

                I follow your logic. Generally. I would agree. The main problem is the hand waving we need to do to talk about perception. Some would argue about whether or not we all see the same "red". I don't think those arguments are interesting or useful as they're not falsifiable.



                Now here's some hair splitting idea: Consider the Mantis Shrimp and its 12 types of photo receptors and solar spectrum gaps. I could imagine an organism evolving a system if vision detailed enough to see the variations in the spectra between stars. Then it would be able to tell the different between true white-full-spectrum light and the light from the sun.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  I follow your logic. Generally. I would agree. The main problem is the hand waving we need to do to talk about perception. Some would argue about whether or not we all see the same "red". I don't think those arguments are interesting or useful as they're not falsifiable.



                  Now here's some hair splitting idea: Consider the Mantis Shrimp and its 12 types of photo receptors and solar spectrum gaps. I could imagine an organism evolving a system if vision detailed enough to see the variations in the spectra between stars. Then it would be able to tell the different between true white-full-spectrum light and the light from the sun.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  I follow your logic. Generally. I would agree. The main problem is the hand waving we need to do to talk about perception. Some would argue about whether or not we all see the same "red". I don't think those arguments are interesting or useful as they're not falsifiable.



                  Now here's some hair splitting idea: Consider the Mantis Shrimp and its 12 types of photo receptors and solar spectrum gaps. I could imagine an organism evolving a system if vision detailed enough to see the variations in the spectra between stars. Then it would be able to tell the different between true white-full-spectrum light and the light from the sun.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  kleer001kleer001

                  3615




                  3615



























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