Drawing without replacement: why is the order of draw irrelevant? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)A question regarding drawing balls of differing colors from an urn before a certain number of draws occur without replacement.3 balls drawn from 1 urn - probability all same color (with/without replacement)Probability without replacement questionsBalls with and without replacementPicking balls blindfolded without replacementProbability of drawing balls without replacement in first and last drawAre expectation of with replacement and without replacement same? When?Choosing one type of ball without replacement.Drawing 4 balls from an urn without replacement and a bonus ballDrawing Balls Without Replacement

ArcGIS Pro Python arcpy.CreatePersonalGDB_management

Does the Weapon Master feat grant you a fighting style?

What is this clumpy 20-30cm high yellow-flowered plant?

Is CEO the "profession" with the most psychopaths?

What would you call this weird metallic apparatus that allows you to lift people?

How to react to hostile behavior from a senior developer?

Most bit efficient text communication method?

Chebyshev inequality in terms of RMS

Why is it faster to reheat something than it is to cook it?

Are all finite dimensional hilbert spaces isomorphic to spaces with Euclidean norms?

How come Sam didn't become Lord of Horn Hill?

Hangman Game with C++

Crossing US/Canada Border for less than 24 hours

Generate an RGB colour grid

Why is Nikon 1.4g better when Nikon 1.8g is sharper?

Do wooden building fires get hotter than 600°C?

What is the appropriate index architecture when forced to implement IsDeleted (soft deletes)?

How can I reduce the gap between left and right of cdot with a macro?

Central Vacuuming: Is it worth it, and how does it compare to normal vacuuming?

How to write this math term? with cases it isn't working

Is it fair for a professor to grade us on the possession of past papers?

Can a new player join a group only when a new campaign starts?

Should I follow up with an employee I believe overracted to a mistake I made?

Should I use a zero-interest credit card for a large one-time purchase?



Drawing without replacement: why is the order of draw irrelevant?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)A question regarding drawing balls of differing colors from an urn before a certain number of draws occur without replacement.3 balls drawn from 1 urn - probability all same color (with/without replacement)Probability without replacement questionsBalls with and without replacementPicking balls blindfolded without replacementProbability of drawing balls without replacement in first and last drawAre expectation of with replacement and without replacement same? When?Choosing one type of ball without replacement.Drawing 4 balls from an urn without replacement and a bonus ballDrawing Balls Without Replacement










3












$begingroup$


I am trying to wrap my head around this problem:




Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $6$ red and $4$ green. What is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $3$ green if balls are drawn without replacement.




What I remember from my college days that the probability is found by this formula:



$$P(A)=fracbinom62binom43binom105=frac521$$



Is this correct? I am trying to understand why this works. Wouldn't probability depend on the order of balls drawn as the number of balls is changing after each draw? I get how we obtain numerator and denominator, I just feel that the probability should be dependent on the order. For example, the probability to pick red first is $frac610$ so the probability for the second draw becomes $frac59$ for red and $frac49$ for green. But if the first picked ball is green, the probability for the second draw becomes $frac69$ for red and $frac39$ for green. What am I missing?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Usually the "nominator" is called numerator.
    $endgroup$
    – callculus
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @callculus: yes, of, course, I need coffee :)
    $endgroup$
    – Vasya
    10 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The order doesn't matter because $P(A)$ is ultimately the sum of various conditional probabilities, and addition is both commutative and associative.
    $endgroup$
    – chepner
    9 hours ago















3












$begingroup$


I am trying to wrap my head around this problem:




Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $6$ red and $4$ green. What is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $3$ green if balls are drawn without replacement.




What I remember from my college days that the probability is found by this formula:



$$P(A)=fracbinom62binom43binom105=frac521$$



Is this correct? I am trying to understand why this works. Wouldn't probability depend on the order of balls drawn as the number of balls is changing after each draw? I get how we obtain numerator and denominator, I just feel that the probability should be dependent on the order. For example, the probability to pick red first is $frac610$ so the probability for the second draw becomes $frac59$ for red and $frac49$ for green. But if the first picked ball is green, the probability for the second draw becomes $frac69$ for red and $frac39$ for green. What am I missing?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Usually the "nominator" is called numerator.
    $endgroup$
    – callculus
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @callculus: yes, of, course, I need coffee :)
    $endgroup$
    – Vasya
    10 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The order doesn't matter because $P(A)$ is ultimately the sum of various conditional probabilities, and addition is both commutative and associative.
    $endgroup$
    – chepner
    9 hours ago













3












3








3


3



$begingroup$


I am trying to wrap my head around this problem:




Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $6$ red and $4$ green. What is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $3$ green if balls are drawn without replacement.




What I remember from my college days that the probability is found by this formula:



$$P(A)=fracbinom62binom43binom105=frac521$$



Is this correct? I am trying to understand why this works. Wouldn't probability depend on the order of balls drawn as the number of balls is changing after each draw? I get how we obtain numerator and denominator, I just feel that the probability should be dependent on the order. For example, the probability to pick red first is $frac610$ so the probability for the second draw becomes $frac59$ for red and $frac49$ for green. But if the first picked ball is green, the probability for the second draw becomes $frac69$ for red and $frac39$ for green. What am I missing?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I am trying to wrap my head around this problem:




Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $6$ red and $4$ green. What is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $3$ green if balls are drawn without replacement.




What I remember from my college days that the probability is found by this formula:



$$P(A)=fracbinom62binom43binom105=frac521$$



Is this correct? I am trying to understand why this works. Wouldn't probability depend on the order of balls drawn as the number of balls is changing after each draw? I get how we obtain numerator and denominator, I just feel that the probability should be dependent on the order. For example, the probability to pick red first is $frac610$ so the probability for the second draw becomes $frac59$ for red and $frac49$ for green. But if the first picked ball is green, the probability for the second draw becomes $frac69$ for red and $frac39$ for green. What am I missing?







probability probability-theory






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago









JeffC

1053




1053










asked 11 hours ago









VasyaVasya

4,5441619




4,5441619







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Usually the "nominator" is called numerator.
    $endgroup$
    – callculus
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @callculus: yes, of, course, I need coffee :)
    $endgroup$
    – Vasya
    10 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The order doesn't matter because $P(A)$ is ultimately the sum of various conditional probabilities, and addition is both commutative and associative.
    $endgroup$
    – chepner
    9 hours ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Usually the "nominator" is called numerator.
    $endgroup$
    – callculus
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @callculus: yes, of, course, I need coffee :)
    $endgroup$
    – Vasya
    10 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The order doesn't matter because $P(A)$ is ultimately the sum of various conditional probabilities, and addition is both commutative and associative.
    $endgroup$
    – chepner
    9 hours ago







1




1




$begingroup$
Usually the "nominator" is called numerator.
$endgroup$
– callculus
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
Usually the "nominator" is called numerator.
$endgroup$
– callculus
10 hours ago












$begingroup$
@callculus: yes, of, course, I need coffee :)
$endgroup$
– Vasya
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
@callculus: yes, of, course, I need coffee :)
$endgroup$
– Vasya
10 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
The order doesn't matter because $P(A)$ is ultimately the sum of various conditional probabilities, and addition is both commutative and associative.
$endgroup$
– chepner
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
The order doesn't matter because $P(A)$ is ultimately the sum of various conditional probabilities, and addition is both commutative and associative.
$endgroup$
– chepner
9 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$

If you took into consideration the order, you would get the same result but the calculation would be a bit more difficult:



  • all possible sequences of $5$ balls respecting order (as if they were distinguishable): $10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6$

  • all possible selections of $colorred2$ out of $colorred6$ red balls: $colorredbinom62$

  • all possible selections of $colorgreen3$ out of $colorgreen4$ green balls: $colorgreenbinom43$

  • all possible arrangements of the selected $colorred2+colorgreen3$ balls: $5!$

All together
$$fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43 cdot 5!10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6 = fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43frac10!5!cdot 5!= frac521$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    6












    $begingroup$

    The probability of picking a red ball first and then a green ball is
    $$ frac610 cdot frac49 $$
    The probability of picking a green ball first and then a red ball is
    $$ frac410 cdot frac69 $$
    Notice that the numbers in the denominator are the same, while the numbers in
    the numerator are the same but in reverse order? Multiplication is commutative.



    Another way of looking at this: we don't care about the process you go through in picking the balls, as long as it is fair: each possible outcome (i.e. each possible subset of
    $5$ of the $10$ balls, where we consider the balls as in principle distinguishable) has the same probability. If this is the case, you just need to count the number of
    outcomes that belong to the event you're considering, and divide by the total number of
    outcomes.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Thank you for the explanation, as I started writing it down I came to the same conclusion but it's very helpful to see the problem from a different perspective!
      $endgroup$
      – Vasya
      10 hours ago


















    2












    $begingroup$

    You can comprehend the calculation in a simpler way with smaller numbers.




    Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $3$ red and $2$ green. What
    is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $2$ green if balls are drawn
    without replacement.




    Indeed we have to regard the order. There are $frac4!2!cdot 2!=6$ ways to draw 2 red and 2 green balls:



    $$colorgreengcolorgreengcolorredrcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorgreengcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorgreengcolorgreengcolorredr, colorredrcolorgreengcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorredrcolorgreengcolorgreeng$$



    Each way has the same probability: $frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12 quad (ggrr)$



    Multiplying with 6 (ways) we get $6cdot frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12=frac35=0.6 $



    Using binomial coefficients we get $fracbinom32cdot binom22binom54=frac3cdot 15=frac35=0.6$



    And we get the same result.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




















      2












      $begingroup$

      There is a principle called "conservation of expected evidence" that says that if you have events A and B, then when you calculate the probability of A without knowing whether B happens, the result should be the same as the expected value of the probability over the possible results of B.



      In this case, let A be the probability that the second ball is red, and B be the probability the first one is green. The principle says that P(A) = P(A|B)P(B)+P(A|~B)P(~B). That is, if you split A into two cases of A and B versus A and not B, the total probability should just be the probability of A. If you roll a die and flip a coin, the probability of getting a 1 one the die should change if you split it into P(die=1,coin=heads) plus P(die=1,coin=tails).



      We have the following values for those probabilities:



      P(A) = $frac610$

      P(A|B) = $frac5 9 $

      P(B) = $frac610$

      P(A|~B) = $frac 6 9 $

      P(~B) = $frac 4 10$



      So the equation is $frac610 = frac5 9 frac610+frac 6 9 frac 4 10=frac30+249*10 = frac549*10=frac9*69*10=frac 6 10$



      If you have ten cards, 6 red and 4 green, and you shuffle them, would the probability of the first one being red be any different from the probability of the second one being red?






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function()
        var channelOptions =
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "69"
        ;
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
        createEditor();
        );

        else
        createEditor();

        );

        function createEditor()
        StackExchange.prepareEditor(
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: true,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: 10,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader:
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        ,
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        );



        );













        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function ()
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3192310%2fdrawing-without-replacement-why-is-the-order-of-draw-irrelevant%23new-answer', 'question_page');

        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        6












        $begingroup$

        If you took into consideration the order, you would get the same result but the calculation would be a bit more difficult:



        • all possible sequences of $5$ balls respecting order (as if they were distinguishable): $10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6$

        • all possible selections of $colorred2$ out of $colorred6$ red balls: $colorredbinom62$

        • all possible selections of $colorgreen3$ out of $colorgreen4$ green balls: $colorgreenbinom43$

        • all possible arrangements of the selected $colorred2+colorgreen3$ balls: $5!$

        All together
        $$fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43 cdot 5!10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6 = fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43frac10!5!cdot 5!= frac521$$






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$

















          6












          $begingroup$

          If you took into consideration the order, you would get the same result but the calculation would be a bit more difficult:



          • all possible sequences of $5$ balls respecting order (as if they were distinguishable): $10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6$

          • all possible selections of $colorred2$ out of $colorred6$ red balls: $colorredbinom62$

          • all possible selections of $colorgreen3$ out of $colorgreen4$ green balls: $colorgreenbinom43$

          • all possible arrangements of the selected $colorred2+colorgreen3$ balls: $5!$

          All together
          $$fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43 cdot 5!10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6 = fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43frac10!5!cdot 5!= frac521$$






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$















            6












            6








            6





            $begingroup$

            If you took into consideration the order, you would get the same result but the calculation would be a bit more difficult:



            • all possible sequences of $5$ balls respecting order (as if they were distinguishable): $10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6$

            • all possible selections of $colorred2$ out of $colorred6$ red balls: $colorredbinom62$

            • all possible selections of $colorgreen3$ out of $colorgreen4$ green balls: $colorgreenbinom43$

            • all possible arrangements of the selected $colorred2+colorgreen3$ balls: $5!$

            All together
            $$fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43 cdot 5!10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6 = fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43frac10!5!cdot 5!= frac521$$






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            If you took into consideration the order, you would get the same result but the calculation would be a bit more difficult:



            • all possible sequences of $5$ balls respecting order (as if they were distinguishable): $10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6$

            • all possible selections of $colorred2$ out of $colorred6$ red balls: $colorredbinom62$

            • all possible selections of $colorgreen3$ out of $colorgreen4$ green balls: $colorgreenbinom43$

            • all possible arrangements of the selected $colorred2+colorgreen3$ balls: $5!$

            All together
            $$fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43 cdot 5!10cdot 9cdot 8cdot 7 cdot 6 = fraccolorredbinom62cdot colorgreenbinom43frac10!5!cdot 5!= frac521$$







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered 10 hours ago









            trancelocationtrancelocation

            14.5k1929




            14.5k1929





















                6












                $begingroup$

                The probability of picking a red ball first and then a green ball is
                $$ frac610 cdot frac49 $$
                The probability of picking a green ball first and then a red ball is
                $$ frac410 cdot frac69 $$
                Notice that the numbers in the denominator are the same, while the numbers in
                the numerator are the same but in reverse order? Multiplication is commutative.



                Another way of looking at this: we don't care about the process you go through in picking the balls, as long as it is fair: each possible outcome (i.e. each possible subset of
                $5$ of the $10$ balls, where we consider the balls as in principle distinguishable) has the same probability. If this is the case, you just need to count the number of
                outcomes that belong to the event you're considering, and divide by the total number of
                outcomes.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for the explanation, as I started writing it down I came to the same conclusion but it's very helpful to see the problem from a different perspective!
                  $endgroup$
                  – Vasya
                  10 hours ago















                6












                $begingroup$

                The probability of picking a red ball first and then a green ball is
                $$ frac610 cdot frac49 $$
                The probability of picking a green ball first and then a red ball is
                $$ frac410 cdot frac69 $$
                Notice that the numbers in the denominator are the same, while the numbers in
                the numerator are the same but in reverse order? Multiplication is commutative.



                Another way of looking at this: we don't care about the process you go through in picking the balls, as long as it is fair: each possible outcome (i.e. each possible subset of
                $5$ of the $10$ balls, where we consider the balls as in principle distinguishable) has the same probability. If this is the case, you just need to count the number of
                outcomes that belong to the event you're considering, and divide by the total number of
                outcomes.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for the explanation, as I started writing it down I came to the same conclusion but it's very helpful to see the problem from a different perspective!
                  $endgroup$
                  – Vasya
                  10 hours ago













                6












                6








                6





                $begingroup$

                The probability of picking a red ball first and then a green ball is
                $$ frac610 cdot frac49 $$
                The probability of picking a green ball first and then a red ball is
                $$ frac410 cdot frac69 $$
                Notice that the numbers in the denominator are the same, while the numbers in
                the numerator are the same but in reverse order? Multiplication is commutative.



                Another way of looking at this: we don't care about the process you go through in picking the balls, as long as it is fair: each possible outcome (i.e. each possible subset of
                $5$ of the $10$ balls, where we consider the balls as in principle distinguishable) has the same probability. If this is the case, you just need to count the number of
                outcomes that belong to the event you're considering, and divide by the total number of
                outcomes.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                The probability of picking a red ball first and then a green ball is
                $$ frac610 cdot frac49 $$
                The probability of picking a green ball first and then a red ball is
                $$ frac410 cdot frac69 $$
                Notice that the numbers in the denominator are the same, while the numbers in
                the numerator are the same but in reverse order? Multiplication is commutative.



                Another way of looking at this: we don't care about the process you go through in picking the balls, as long as it is fair: each possible outcome (i.e. each possible subset of
                $5$ of the $10$ balls, where we consider the balls as in principle distinguishable) has the same probability. If this is the case, you just need to count the number of
                outcomes that belong to the event you're considering, and divide by the total number of
                outcomes.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 10 hours ago









                Robert IsraelRobert Israel

                332k23222481




                332k23222481







                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for the explanation, as I started writing it down I came to the same conclusion but it's very helpful to see the problem from a different perspective!
                  $endgroup$
                  – Vasya
                  10 hours ago












                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for the explanation, as I started writing it down I came to the same conclusion but it's very helpful to see the problem from a different perspective!
                  $endgroup$
                  – Vasya
                  10 hours ago







                1




                1




                $begingroup$
                Thank you for the explanation, as I started writing it down I came to the same conclusion but it's very helpful to see the problem from a different perspective!
                $endgroup$
                – Vasya
                10 hours ago




                $begingroup$
                Thank you for the explanation, as I started writing it down I came to the same conclusion but it's very helpful to see the problem from a different perspective!
                $endgroup$
                – Vasya
                10 hours ago











                2












                $begingroup$

                You can comprehend the calculation in a simpler way with smaller numbers.




                Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $3$ red and $2$ green. What
                is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $2$ green if balls are drawn
                without replacement.




                Indeed we have to regard the order. There are $frac4!2!cdot 2!=6$ ways to draw 2 red and 2 green balls:



                $$colorgreengcolorgreengcolorredrcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorgreengcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorgreengcolorgreengcolorredr, colorredrcolorgreengcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorredrcolorgreengcolorgreeng$$



                Each way has the same probability: $frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12 quad (ggrr)$



                Multiplying with 6 (ways) we get $6cdot frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12=frac35=0.6 $



                Using binomial coefficients we get $fracbinom32cdot binom22binom54=frac3cdot 15=frac35=0.6$



                And we get the same result.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$

















                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  You can comprehend the calculation in a simpler way with smaller numbers.




                  Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $3$ red and $2$ green. What
                  is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $2$ green if balls are drawn
                  without replacement.




                  Indeed we have to regard the order. There are $frac4!2!cdot 2!=6$ ways to draw 2 red and 2 green balls:



                  $$colorgreengcolorgreengcolorredrcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorgreengcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorgreengcolorgreengcolorredr, colorredrcolorgreengcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorredrcolorgreengcolorgreeng$$



                  Each way has the same probability: $frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12 quad (ggrr)$



                  Multiplying with 6 (ways) we get $6cdot frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12=frac35=0.6 $



                  Using binomial coefficients we get $fracbinom32cdot binom22binom54=frac3cdot 15=frac35=0.6$



                  And we get the same result.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$















                    2












                    2








                    2





                    $begingroup$

                    You can comprehend the calculation in a simpler way with smaller numbers.




                    Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $3$ red and $2$ green. What
                    is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $2$ green if balls are drawn
                    without replacement.




                    Indeed we have to regard the order. There are $frac4!2!cdot 2!=6$ ways to draw 2 red and 2 green balls:



                    $$colorgreengcolorgreengcolorredrcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorgreengcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorgreengcolorgreengcolorredr, colorredrcolorgreengcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorredrcolorgreengcolorgreeng$$



                    Each way has the same probability: $frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12 quad (ggrr)$



                    Multiplying with 6 (ways) we get $6cdot frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12=frac35=0.6 $



                    Using binomial coefficients we get $fracbinom32cdot binom22binom54=frac3cdot 15=frac35=0.6$



                    And we get the same result.






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$



                    You can comprehend the calculation in a simpler way with smaller numbers.




                    Daniel randomly chooses balls from the group of $3$ red and $2$ green. What
                    is the probability that he picks $2$ red and $2$ green if balls are drawn
                    without replacement.




                    Indeed we have to regard the order. There are $frac4!2!cdot 2!=6$ ways to draw 2 red and 2 green balls:



                    $$colorgreengcolorgreengcolorredrcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorgreengcolorredr, colorgreengcolorredrcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorgreengcolorgreengcolorredr, colorredrcolorgreengcolorredrcolorgreeng, colorredrcolorredrcolorgreengcolorgreeng$$



                    Each way has the same probability: $frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12 quad (ggrr)$



                    Multiplying with 6 (ways) we get $6cdot frac35cdot frac24cdot frac23cdot frac12=frac35=0.6 $



                    Using binomial coefficients we get $fracbinom32cdot binom22binom54=frac3cdot 15=frac35=0.6$



                    And we get the same result.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited 10 hours ago

























                    answered 10 hours ago









                    callculuscallculus

                    18.8k31528




                    18.8k31528





















                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        There is a principle called "conservation of expected evidence" that says that if you have events A and B, then when you calculate the probability of A without knowing whether B happens, the result should be the same as the expected value of the probability over the possible results of B.



                        In this case, let A be the probability that the second ball is red, and B be the probability the first one is green. The principle says that P(A) = P(A|B)P(B)+P(A|~B)P(~B). That is, if you split A into two cases of A and B versus A and not B, the total probability should just be the probability of A. If you roll a die and flip a coin, the probability of getting a 1 one the die should change if you split it into P(die=1,coin=heads) plus P(die=1,coin=tails).



                        We have the following values for those probabilities:



                        P(A) = $frac610$

                        P(A|B) = $frac5 9 $

                        P(B) = $frac610$

                        P(A|~B) = $frac 6 9 $

                        P(~B) = $frac 4 10$



                        So the equation is $frac610 = frac5 9 frac610+frac 6 9 frac 4 10=frac30+249*10 = frac549*10=frac9*69*10=frac 6 10$



                        If you have ten cards, 6 red and 4 green, and you shuffle them, would the probability of the first one being red be any different from the probability of the second one being red?






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$

















                          2












                          $begingroup$

                          There is a principle called "conservation of expected evidence" that says that if you have events A and B, then when you calculate the probability of A without knowing whether B happens, the result should be the same as the expected value of the probability over the possible results of B.



                          In this case, let A be the probability that the second ball is red, and B be the probability the first one is green. The principle says that P(A) = P(A|B)P(B)+P(A|~B)P(~B). That is, if you split A into two cases of A and B versus A and not B, the total probability should just be the probability of A. If you roll a die and flip a coin, the probability of getting a 1 one the die should change if you split it into P(die=1,coin=heads) plus P(die=1,coin=tails).



                          We have the following values for those probabilities:



                          P(A) = $frac610$

                          P(A|B) = $frac5 9 $

                          P(B) = $frac610$

                          P(A|~B) = $frac 6 9 $

                          P(~B) = $frac 4 10$



                          So the equation is $frac610 = frac5 9 frac610+frac 6 9 frac 4 10=frac30+249*10 = frac549*10=frac9*69*10=frac 6 10$



                          If you have ten cards, 6 red and 4 green, and you shuffle them, would the probability of the first one being red be any different from the probability of the second one being red?






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$















                            2












                            2








                            2





                            $begingroup$

                            There is a principle called "conservation of expected evidence" that says that if you have events A and B, then when you calculate the probability of A without knowing whether B happens, the result should be the same as the expected value of the probability over the possible results of B.



                            In this case, let A be the probability that the second ball is red, and B be the probability the first one is green. The principle says that P(A) = P(A|B)P(B)+P(A|~B)P(~B). That is, if you split A into two cases of A and B versus A and not B, the total probability should just be the probability of A. If you roll a die and flip a coin, the probability of getting a 1 one the die should change if you split it into P(die=1,coin=heads) plus P(die=1,coin=tails).



                            We have the following values for those probabilities:



                            P(A) = $frac610$

                            P(A|B) = $frac5 9 $

                            P(B) = $frac610$

                            P(A|~B) = $frac 6 9 $

                            P(~B) = $frac 4 10$



                            So the equation is $frac610 = frac5 9 frac610+frac 6 9 frac 4 10=frac30+249*10 = frac549*10=frac9*69*10=frac 6 10$



                            If you have ten cards, 6 red and 4 green, and you shuffle them, would the probability of the first one being red be any different from the probability of the second one being red?






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            There is a principle called "conservation of expected evidence" that says that if you have events A and B, then when you calculate the probability of A without knowing whether B happens, the result should be the same as the expected value of the probability over the possible results of B.



                            In this case, let A be the probability that the second ball is red, and B be the probability the first one is green. The principle says that P(A) = P(A|B)P(B)+P(A|~B)P(~B). That is, if you split A into two cases of A and B versus A and not B, the total probability should just be the probability of A. If you roll a die and flip a coin, the probability of getting a 1 one the die should change if you split it into P(die=1,coin=heads) plus P(die=1,coin=tails).



                            We have the following values for those probabilities:



                            P(A) = $frac610$

                            P(A|B) = $frac5 9 $

                            P(B) = $frac610$

                            P(A|~B) = $frac 6 9 $

                            P(~B) = $frac 4 10$



                            So the equation is $frac610 = frac5 9 frac610+frac 6 9 frac 4 10=frac30+249*10 = frac549*10=frac9*69*10=frac 6 10$



                            If you have ten cards, 6 red and 4 green, and you shuffle them, would the probability of the first one being red be any different from the probability of the second one being red?







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered 7 hours ago









                            AcccumulationAcccumulation

                            7,3332619




                            7,3332619



























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded
















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid


                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function ()
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3192310%2fdrawing-without-replacement-why-is-the-order-of-draw-irrelevant%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Invision Community Contents History See also References External links Navigation menuProprietaryinvisioncommunity.comIPS Community ForumsIPS Community Forumsthis blog entry"License Changes, IP.Board 3.4, and the Future""Interview -- Matt Mecham of Ibforums""CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Liar, Thief!"IPB License Explanation 1.3, 1.3.1, 2.0, and 2.1ArchivedSecurity Fixes, Updates And Enhancements For IPB 1.3.1Archived"New Demo Accounts - Invision Power Services"the original"New Default Skin"the original"Invision Power Board 3.0.0 and Applications Released"the original"Archived copy"the original"Perpetual licenses being done away with""Release Notes - Invision Power Services""Introducing: IPS Community Suite 4!"Invision Community Release Notes

                                Canceling a color specificationRandomly assigning color to Graphics3D objects?Default color for Filling in Mathematica 9Coloring specific elements of sets with a prime modified order in an array plotHow to pick a color differing significantly from the colors already in a given color list?Detection of the text colorColor numbers based on their valueCan color schemes for use with ColorData include opacity specification?My dynamic color schemes

                                Ласкавець круглолистий Зміст Опис | Поширення | Галерея | Примітки | Посилання | Навігаційне меню58171138361-22960890446Bupleurum rotundifoliumEuro+Med PlantbasePlants of the World Online — Kew ScienceGermplasm Resources Information Network (GRIN)Ласкавецькн. VI : Літери Ком — Левиправивши або дописавши її